The beatles Case Study

[swick]

If it sells for less than $60k, we won't be walking away with much of anything. That's the most painful part. Selling a house for no profit at all.

This is the exact thinking that Mr. Beatles couldn't get over. it is painful, but it is a learning experience. You will be removing liabilities that put your family IN IMMEDIATE DANGER.

Mr. Beatles said he didn't want to lose the rental income - but it wasn't income since you OWE so much property tax, the rental has been COSTING you more money than it is bringing in and it has been hidden in the fact that there is no insurance and the roof has gone unrepaired.

Selling and settling your biggest debts including the property taxes and the IRS DEBTS may not get you any profit, but it may keep a roof over your head and your husband OUT OF JAIL.  Side note: I do hope Mr. Beatles has been following up with a tax attorney and has been actively working out how to deal with the IRS issue.

With that out of the way, you can start rebuilding and that is worth far more than any imagined lost profit.

[Poundwise]

Would you mind telling your complete story?

I would, as it would take ages to tell, and is basically the same story of everyone who has gotten into and out of debt.  :)

But the short story is I sold my car, sold a lot of stuff at a loss on ebay, took a second job, paid off my credit cards highest interest first, and we lived in extreme poverty for a year until husband and I got raises. After that first year of hell, it got a lot better and within about 3 years I was completely debt free (except for my eternal debt to Mr. Poundwise for his understanding and forgiveness), saving, and a lot wiser.

As humans, we are heavily loss averse.  You have to use your aversion to loss to your advantage-- turn your eyes away from your perceived loss on the house, and towards the loss you incur daily through the interest on your CC debts. To restate, you are focusing on the wrong thing when you are calculating your losses. 

[Novik]

I wasn't involved in the other thread, but I've read some of it, including what you just linked us to, Mrs. Beatles, about the improvements done on the rental house. I couldn't find in the original thread the details about the sized/location of that house vs. your current one, but if you used to live there, and are happy with the interior, could you sell your current place and move back?

You wouldn't make anything off your current house, but I'm guessing you'd free up cashflow with lower mortgage, and be able to afford a new roof, and therefore could get insurance. It's not a great option, but if you can't stand to sell that rental house, it's another option.

But agree with other posters that selling the rental makes more sense.

[BabyShark]

You are not looking for a "retail" or "full price" buyer with a house in this condition.  You're looking for the equivalent of the clearance shopper.  :)

That really bothers me. Aside from the roof, the house is immaculate. It is brand new.

I am not doubting your honesty, but I am doubting the accuracy of that statement. Considering that bare plywood has been visible for some time, there is certain to be significant water damage. If not in the ceilings, it is probably running down into the walls causing rot and mold.

Since you lack the resources to repair the roof, you should sell the house as is, right away. The price it brings will no doubt be very painful to you and your husband, but think of it a cauterizing a wound. Barbaric, hurts like hell, but it saves your life from bleeding out and infection.

If it sells for less than $60k, we won't be walking away with much of anything. That's the most painful part. Selling a house for no profit at all.

The profit isn't going to be monetary, it's going to come from peace of mind that you're no longer dealing with that liability.

I'm sorry but I have a hard time with that logic. We could sell as-is and maybe make nothing. Or we could put a $4,000 roof on and perhaps make $35,000. Seems like an easy decision.

Except where do you get the $4,000 from?

[Laura33]

I'm sorry but I have a hard time with that logic. We could sell as-is and maybe make nothing. Or we could put a $4,000 roof on and perhaps make $35,000. Seems like an easy decision.

In an ideal world, sure.  So assuming you choose to replace the roof:

1.  What is your plan for borrowing the $10K to replace the roof?

2.  What is your plan to pay the @$4K in property taxes due next month?

3.  What is the carrying cost of borrowing another $14K for several months, which would presumably be at 25-30% interest, and delaying paying down your high-interest debts for that period?

4.  How confident are you that roof + sale = $35K?  You can't know how much the roof is going to cost until you get quotes; I suspect the exposed plywood means the repairs will cost more than you hope.  And if you're relying on a single real estate agent's valuation, well, let's just say they have been known to exaggerate to get business.

None of your choices have changed since last month, and they aren't going to change (for the better, at least) in another month.  So if you have already decided that you don't want to sell until you replace the roof, it's past time to get quotes and look into financing. 

Honestly, my impression from reading these threads is that you are still stuck -- you know you need to do something, but you are still thinking the way you have always thought, and so all of the reasons why you don't want to sell keep coming back up and hitting you in the face.  But look at where that thinking has gotten you:  into massive debt, borrowing money at purely usurious interest rates (30%!) to fund your lifestyle, all the while with one of your primary "assets" at such risk that no insurance company will insure it.  You can't trust the thinking that got you into this kind of position -- you can't fixate on the two birds in the bush when the one you think you have in hand is actually a live grenade.

Sell something.  Now.  Put the rental on the market as is, today.  In the meantime, get quotes for a new roof, and figure out financing, so you can do the actual math (including March taxes + carrying costs of delaying the sale until after the repairs are done).  If you don't get a decent offer as is, you can always pull the house from the market and re-list once the roof is done.  You have choices -- you just need to make one.

[honeybbq]

I really admire you coming on here.  I'm no real estate expert, but it seems to me you need to replace the roof and have a relator sell the property within a month or 2.  I also read the blog by Mr. Beatles.  Very long, as noted.  I get that writing is cathartic for him; I write myself.  Can he cut his hours writing and Uber or deliver pizzas, sell stuff on eBay to help pass some time?

There is no point suggesting that the beatles replace the roof: they don't have the money to pay anyone else (they are close to bankruptcy) or the knowledge and physical ability to do it themselves.  They have to sell the house "as is" for whatever they can get, as soon as they can get it, so that it doesn't get foreclosed (or burn down while uninsured) and to give themselves some breathing room on their other debts.

They have the option to take a "loan" from parents IIRC.

[honeybbq]

You are not looking for a "retail" or "full price" buyer with a house in this condition.  You're looking for the equivalent of the clearance shopper.  :)

That really bothers me. Aside from the roof, the house is immaculate. It is brand new.

What doesn't matter in real estate is how you FEEL. You need to separate your feelings and emotions from a business transaction. The house cannot be immaculate if the roof is caving in. And it doesn't deserve top dollar, no matter what you believe it does - it deserves what someone will pay.

[ysette9]

Mrs. Beatles: I strongly recommend that you & your husband spend some minutes reading through the Bogleheads wiki article on Behavioral Pitfalls. https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Behavioral_pitfalls This is very important reading for pretty much everyone because these are the ways that our human brains trick us into making bad financial and investment decisions. I think you are heavily stuck in what is called Loss Aversion.

Loss aversion

Loss aversion is the emotional tendency to strongly prefer avoiding losses over acquiring gains. As an example, loss aversion implies that one who loses $100 will feel twice the emotional pain as another person will feel satisfaction from receiving $100. Common indications include checking your portfolio on an almost daily basis, selling funds before you intended to lock in profits, or selling when you didn't intend to in order to avoid further losses.

To relate this to your situation, you are afraid of potentially losing a potential $35K (unconfirmed) of additional gains in the rental property that quite frankly, you have no reasonable way of attaining (you can't fix the roof yourself, you don't have the money to pay for the new roof, your finances are such a disaster that you can't borrow the money to fix the roof). In focusing on this, you are neglecting the massive scary imminent crushing debt you have accumulated that leaves you THISCLOSE to losing absolutely everything. Please recognize what is going on here and use your higher-level thinking to set this mental trap aside and do what you need to do. Sell that sucker immediately for anything you can get. Just being out from the really scary liability you carry now by having no insurance will be worth any cash you can walk away with.

Please, please, do the right thing. For you, for your kids, for your security.

[theotherbeatle]

If it sells for less than $60k, we won't be walking away with much of anything. That's the most painful part. Selling a house for no profit at all.

This is the exact thinking that Mr. Beatles couldn't get over. it is painful, but it is a learning experience. You will be removing liabilities that put your family IN IMMEDIATE DANGER.

Mr. Beatles said he didn't want to lose the rental income - but it wasn't income since you OWE so much property tax, the rental has been COSTING you more money than it is bringing in and it has been hidden in the fact that there is no insurance and the roof has gone unrepaired.

To be honest my husband is far further past than where I am. I'm still struggling a little. This morning he was talking about using less toothpaste and unplugging the darn stove when were not using it, and i'm just not at that level yet. 

Selling and settling your biggest debts including the property taxes and the IRS DEBTS may not get you any profit, but it may keep a roof over your head and your husband OUT OF JAIL.  Side note: I do hope Mr. Beatles has been following up with a tax attorney and has been actively working out how to deal with the IRS issue.

That's already done and paid.

[charis]

Selling the rental is really a no-brainer, you have to start ripping off the band-aid.  One accident on that property tomorrow will bankrupt you.   Stop putting up self-imposed barriers to action.  You are right about one thing, though, just selling the rental (whether you fix the roof or not) is not going to get you as far as you need to go.   

What you really should be doing is what MANY people advised you to do on the old thread - sell both the rental and your current home and move into the apartment on the third property until your debts are gone. 

Unplugging the stove is a red herring - you guys have to get past this mindset.

[Malum Prohibitum]

I'm sorry but I have a hard time with that logic. We could sell as-is and maybe make nothing. Or we could put a $4,000 roof on and perhaps make $35,000. Seems like an easy decision.

Well, then, since the decision is so easy, DO IT!!!!

I will offer my unsolicited opinion that it would be a rare thing indeed, in the real world, outside of posting on the internet, for a $4000 investment to yield a $35,000 return.  If true, and this can be done in a couple of months, then this 857% return would be equal to a 5,250% annual return.  If your numbers are correct, then this is indeed an easy choice, and, no matter my financial condition, I would get the $4000 and do it.  Borrow it at high interest if you have to, but do it.

Of course, you have enough crap to sell that you could probably raise the $4000 in short order (sell a car!  clean out the garage!  Sell!  Sell!  Sell!)

I agree with the poster above and say that it appears you have made up your mind.  I do not think this is a bad thing.  Making up your mind appears to be what has delayed things until now.  If you have made up your mind, then it is time to act.

Anyway, I already suggested on the prior page (the first page) that you borrow the $4000 and get to work:

- The buyer's lender might not consider the roof to be "bad."

Honey, the shingles are gone and all you see is plywood in several parts of the roof. The reason we don't have insurance is because the insurance company dropped us because the roof was so bad. I don't think there is any degree worse than this.

Then replace the roof.

Use a credit card.

Then sell the rental.

Then sell the house you are living in now.

Rent something small.  Really small.

Sell all materials possessions that will not fit into the rental house when you move.

Use money from selling shit to pay down debt.

Use money saved from not making mortgage payments to payment to pay down debt.

Use money saved from not paying property taxes anymore (renters do not pay property taxes) to pay down debt.

Use money saved from reduced utilities to pay down debt.

Sell the big mansion, too.

That's three home sales in short order.  You are going to make some real estate agent very happy, and you are going to have hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash.

Invest the cash.  Do not buy another home.  Keep renting a small house.

Once all debts are gone, invest the money you are saving from not living the prior lifestyle.

You will be rich in very short order.

Did I leave anything out?

[ysette9]

They have the option to take a "loan" from parents IIRC.

No, they don't have this option, for several reasons. First of all, they have to cut off the financial outpatient care and learn to be adults and stand on their own feet. Leaning on the parents is in part what got them into this mess. Secondly, her parents obviously have their own massive financial issues that aren't being addressed and can't afford to lend them money. Finally, fixing the roof will take time. They don't have time. Every day that goes buy that they are the "owners" of this property with no insurance is another day that they are risking everything. This house of cards can come crashing down spectacularly at any moment. All that has to happen is a renter trips and falls on the property or forgets to turn off the stove before leaving the house. If one of those events happens, The Beatles & family will be bankrupt, homeless, without a rental asset to sell to cover the associated liability, with no reasonable path for digging out of the mess. This situation is so critical it is massively more important to address IMMEDIATELY than arguing over fixing the damn roof.

[Malum Prohibitum]

Selling and settling your biggest debts including the property taxes and the IRS DEBTS may not get you any profit, but it may keep a roof over your head and your husband OUT OF JAIL.  Side note: I do hope Mr. Beatles has been following up with a tax attorney and has been actively working out how to deal with the IRS issue.

That's already done and paid.

  What?  The IRS debt?  The property taxes? How?

[ysette9]

It's a huge mess. I recommend going back through the last few pages of the original Beatles case study to get it clarified. It isn't worth rehashing everything here.

[swick]

Selling and settling your biggest debts including the property taxes and the IRS DEBTS may not get you any profit, but it may keep a roof over your head and your husband OUT OF JAIL.  Side note: I do hope Mr. Beatles has been following up with a tax attorney and has been actively working out how to deal with the IRS issue.

That's already done and paid.

  What?  The IRS debt?  The property taxes? How?

Yes, this is super important information. How did you either come up with the $40,000  owed or the amount negotiated?  Is it on a payment plan? Do you have enough money to cover the payments?

[theotherbeatle]

Selling and settling your biggest debts including the property taxes and the IRS DEBTS may not get you any profit, but it may keep a roof over your head and your husband OUT OF JAIL.  Side note: I do hope Mr. Beatles has been following up with a tax attorney and has been actively working out how to deal with the IRS issue.

That's already done and paid.

  What?  The IRS debt?  The property taxes? How?

The property taxes are on a payment plan. The IRS debt is taken care of (it's not technically paid yet, but will be any day now). We received a check just a few days ago to help pay that, as we found it most important.

[ysette9]

The IRS debt is taken care of. We received a check to help pay that, as we found it most important.

Boy, I sure hope that check didn't come from one of your parents.

[Malum Prohibitum]

The IRS debt is taken care of. We received a check to help pay that, as we found it most important.

Boy, I sure hope that check didn't come from one of your parents.

  LOL!  It's either that or Readers Digest Sweepstakes . . .

[Malum Prohibitum]

What about Post #102?

Do you have $4000 credit available anywhere?  A $35,000 return on $4000 justifies paying a little bit of interest.

[researcher1]

I'm sorry but I have a hard time with that logic. We could sell as-is and maybe make nothing. Or we could put a $4,000 roof on and perhaps make $35,000. Seems like an easy decision.

Then it sounds like you have already made your decision.  Whether the members of the forum agree or not is irrelevant if this is what you really want to do, having considered all of the advice that has been put forward.

Get three bids today (or choose between bids you already have) and get the work done.  Break the analysis paralysis, and move on your decision.

theotherbeetle -

You've been given many reasons, by dozens of posters, why this rental property needs to be sold ASAP.  You even appear to accept this conclusion...
"I know you're right. We are working on a day to meet the realtor at the house."

But then, just 12 hours later, you post something like this...
"I'm sorry but I have a hard time with that logic. We could sell as-is and maybe make nothing. Or we could put a $4,000 roof on and perhaps make $35,000.  Seems like an easy decision."

Where is your head at????  I'm not sure why you continue to solicit feedback if you already have your mind made up. 
And if replacing the roof is the route you want to go, then GET IT DONE!

[Moustachienne]

We may have seen this movie before...

[theotherbeatle]

I'm sorry but I have a hard time with that logic. We could sell as-is and maybe make nothing. Or we could put a $4,000 roof on and perhaps make $35,000. Seems like an easy decision.

Then it sounds like you have already made your decision.  Whether the members of the forum agree or not is irrelevant if this is what you really want to do, having considered all of the advice that has been put forward.

Get three bids today (or choose between bids you already have) and get the work done.  Break the analysis paralysis, and move on your decision.

theotherbeetle -

You've been given many reasons, by dozens of posters, why this rental property needs to be sold ASAP.  You even appear to accept this conclusion...
"I know you're right. We are working on a day to meet the realtor at the house."

But then, just 12 hours later, you post something like this...
"I'm sorry but I have a hard time with that logic. We could sell as-is and maybe make nothing. Or we could put a $4,000 roof on and perhaps make $35,000.
Seems like an easy decision."

Where is your head at????  I'm not sure why you continue to solicit feedback if you already have your mind made up. 
And if replacing the roof is the route you want to go, then GET IT DONE!

I don't know where my head is at, i'm trying to figure this out. I have two kids crawling all over me and the laptop and i'm trying to fix this mess we are in. We have decided to sell the house, that is a given. We just haven't decided whether the roof will be fixed by us or the buyer. But the house IS being sold.

[ysette9]

Do you have $4000 credit available anywhere?  A $35,000 return on $4000 justifies paying a little bit of interest.

Is that a validated number though? I don't know that I trust it. Besides which, every moment spent arguing about fixing the roof or not is a moment that a tenant could be hurting him/herself and causing the downfall of this entire card-based empire. PUT THE RENTAL ON THE MARKET TODAY. Argue about fixing the roof or not AFTER it is listed. If you get an immediate cash offer then TAKE IT and run. If it doesn't sell immediately AND you manage to line up funds to fix the roof AND you have lined up a contractor who can do it IMMEDIATELY, then go ahead. But please, stop dithering and list the property because you are massively exposed to the risk of losing everything.

I don't normally "yell" online but sheesh, I have never seen such a scary and urgent situation in all of the case studies I have read over the years. This situation is dire.

[theotherbeatle]

The IRS debt is taken care of. We received a check to help pay that, as we found it most important.

Boy, I sure hope that check didn't come from one of your parents.

No its fine we consulted a tax attorney and he said as long as we count the money we receive as income then the IRS has no problem with it at all. It's legal. I was concerend about that and we did our due dillegence.

[theotherbeatle]

Do you have $4000 credit available anywhere?  A $35,000 return on $4000 justifies paying a little bit of interest.

Is that a validated number though? I don't know that I trust it. Besides which, every moment spent arguing about fixing the roof or not is a moment that a tenant could be hurting him/herself and causing the downfall of this entire card-based empire. PUT THE RENTAL ON THE MARKET TODAY. Argue about fixing the roof or not AFTER it is listed. If you get an immediate cash offer then TAKE IT and run. If it doesn't sell immediately AND you manage to line up funds to fix the roof AND you have lined up a contractor who can do it IMMEDIATELY, then go ahead. But please, stop dithering and list the property because you are massively exposed to the risk of losing everything.

I don't normally "yell" online but sheesh, I have never seen such a scary and urgent situation in all of the case studies I have read over the years. This situation is dire.

We are selling the house, I promise. I talked to a couple realtors yesterday. It's being sold.

[ysette9]

We have decided to sell the house, that is a given

Good job. Keeping plugging away.

As my decision analysis professor always told us, you haven't made a decision until you have invested significant time, money, or other assets to make it happen that would be hard to undo. You will truly have decided to sell the house once it is listed. :) We're cheering for you here!

[Captain FIRE]

We may have seen this movie before...

But it's a day early for Groundhog Day!

[ysette9]

No its fine we consulted a tax attorney and he said as long as we count the money we receive as income then the IRS has no problem with it at all. It's legal. I was concerned about that and we did our due diligence.

I admit to being confused on this one. Did the tax attorney give you the check? If we're back to talking about your parents, the concern isn't about being legal or not but all of the other concerns that I already detailed out.

However, if it is water under the bridge then let's just move on. Promise you, your husband, me, everyone online, and both sets of parents that you will never, ever again take any money from them. After selling your properties and addressing your outstanding debts you will be in a solid position and will never have to do it again.

[Malum Prohibitum]

Sell all three houses . . .





****


Hundreds of thousands in equity converted to cash . . .

[Malum Prohibitum]

Selling all three could also probably get you a negotiated lower commission to the realtor.  They are going to make quite a bit on selling all three.

[theotherbeatle]

Sell all three houses . . .





****


Hundreds of thousands in equity converted to cash . . .

I understand your point, I do. Thank you for being so helpful and concerned. But please, allow us to stay on topic with the rental I beg you.

[researcher1]

That's already done and paid [IRS and property taxes owed].

This is what is so frustrating about you & your husband's posts, and probably why the first thread was locked, and Mr Beetles was banned.  You routinely provide incomplete and/or misleading information...

- The $9,000 in unpaid property taxes is far from "done and paid."  You are on a payment plan that won't be paid off for 2 YEARS!!
- I assume your in-laws ponied up another $40,000 to pay off your IRS debt?
- Don't forget you have another $4,500 property tax bill due in another month.  How is that going to get paid?
- Plus the $4,000 roof replacement cost.  Where is that money going to come from?

I'm betting you're going to further drain your in-laws to pay for these upcoming expenses.

[Samuel]

Mrs. Beatles: I strongly recommend that you & your husband spend some minutes reading through the Bogleheads wiki article on Behavioral Pitfalls. https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Behavioral_pitfalls This is very important reading for pretty much everyone because these are the ways that our human brains trick us into making bad financial and investment decisions. I think you are heavily stuck in what is called Loss Aversion.

This is excellent advice. I can see almost every one of these "behavioral pitfalls" on display in the answers we've gotten.

And while you're in learning mode, theotherbeatle, google "sunk cost analysis" and try applying the concept to this rental house situation. And don't leave out the risks of having no insurance, a failing major system (roof) and nearly 3 years of delinquent property taxes from your analysis.

Facing evidence of sloppy thinking is difficult. But so is repeatedly coming back here for well meant but pointed advice from outside observers who, without your emotional investment and familial entanglements, can clearly see a major crisis requiring decisive action.

Keep an open mind. Good luck.

[charis]

Sell all three houses . . .





****


Hundreds of thousands in equity converted to cash . . .

I understand your point, I do. Thank you for being so helpful and concerned. But please, allow us to stay on topic with the rental I beg you.

If you have already decided to sell the rental, I think it's a legitimate question - why you won't sell your current home or the other property tying up most of your equity. 

[Dezrah]

To be honest my husband is far further past than where I am. I'm still struggling a little. This morning he was talking about using less toothpaste and unplugging the darn stove when were not using it, and i'm just not at that level yet. 

This is a mental trap.  These tactics really aren't meaningful until you're already a stable, lean-mean-frugal machine.  It's like shaving your legs to improve your drag resistance while swimming when you haven't even mastered your front-stroke.

It's not wrong to use the correct amount of toothpaste or minimize your vampire electricity, but they just won't change your life right now.  Right now you need Big Wins.  This by far will get you the most bang for your buck. 

As you stated, you have more time than your husband.  Use this to your advantage and go out and score the Big Wins.  Let him do his thing if he wants while you focus on making substantial changes.

Further reading http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/the-big-wins-manifesto/.  Note: the author generally leaves a bad taste in my mouth with his business model but the emphasis of the article is solid.

[MayDay]

I am not saying the Beatles are trolls at all.

But the extremely similar style of just dropping in partial information and never explaining it, makes me think thebeatles and theotherbeatle are both the same person.

In ~2 years of being on this forum, I've never seen a poster with this style of writing.  What are the odds that both of them just happen to have the same style.

That's actually where most of the frustration comes from, I think.  Boneheaded people doing stupid things- yup, common, see AMWOSAC.  But this "dropping in" of partial info about paying stuff off, and then the follow-up of the attorney ok'ing it, while never explaining where the fuck the money came from?  That is unique.

[theotherbeatle]

Mrs. Beatles: I strongly recommend that you & your husband spend some minutes reading through the Bogleheads wiki article on Behavioral Pitfalls. https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Behavioral_pitfalls This is very important reading for pretty much everyone because these are the ways that our human brains trick us into making bad financial and investment decisions. I think you are heavily stuck in what is called Loss Aversion.

Loss aversion

Loss aversion is the emotional tendency to strongly prefer avoiding losses over acquiring gains. As an example, loss aversion implies that one who loses $100 will feel twice the emotional pain as another person will feel satisfaction from receiving $100. Common indications include checking your portfolio on an almost daily basis, selling funds before you intended to lock in profits, or selling when you didn't intend to in order to avoid further losses.

To relate this to your situation, you are afraid of potentially losing a potential $35K (unconfirmed) of additional gains in the rental property that quite frankly, you have no reasonable way of attaining (you can't fix the roof yourself, you don't have the money to pay for the new roof, your finances are such a disaster that you can't borrow the money to fix the roof). In focusing on this, you are neglecting the massive scary imminent crushing debt you have accumulated that leaves you THISCLOSE to losing absolutely everything. Please recognize what is going on here and use your higher-level thinking to set this mental trap aside and do what you need to do. Sell that sucker immediately for anything you can get. Just being out from the really scary liability you carry now by having no insurance will be worth any cash you can walk away with.

Please, please, do the right thing. For you, for your kids, for your security.

Thank you for the link. I think my husband will get more out of it, but I did read a little bit.

[theotherbeatle]

I am not saying the Beatles are trolls at all.

But the extremely similar style of just dropping in partial information and never explaining it, makes me think thebeatles and theotherbeatle are both the same person.

In ~2 years of being on this forum, I've never seen a poster with this style of writing.  What are the odds that both of them just happen to have the same style.

I think that's an understandable conclusion, but I am taking care of kids so I'm sorry if I miss a post or dont give a lenghty enough answer. One of the mods are more than welcome to call me and speak to me over the phone. They can private message me and give me their number if they like.

That's actually where most of the frustration comes from, I think.  Boneheaded people doing stupid things- yup, common, see AMWOSAC.  But this "dropping in" of partial info about paying stuff off, and then the follow-up of the attorney ok'ing it, while never explaining where the fuck the money came from?  That is unique.

It is okay not to give every detail of our life, I would think. I feel that the pieces can be put together without us having to spell everything out and air our laundry out here. Hopefully you understand.

[Moustachienne]

For people who seem to be very indecisive in their real life, the beatles are very firm about how they want to interact with this forum, i.e. how responses should be focussed, what topics are off limits, what tone is OK or not, what information should be given or not.

That's OK but I'm confused about what the beatles actually want from the forum?  Can't help but think it's partly (mostly?) attention, to be honest. (The actual advice doesn't seem welcome. But maybe it's being absorbed.)  And the forum, including me, delivers!

*considers popcorn for breakfast*

[researcher1]

It is okay not to give every detail of our life, I would think. I feel that the pieces can be put together without us having to spell everything out and air our laundry out here. Hopefully you understand.

But you are leaving out crucial pieces of information!!  And without this information no one can give you meaningful advice!!

The main issue at hand is getting rid of this rental property. 
You keep fighting back with everyone, wanting to keep the property until you are assured you can get top dollar for it.

Yet we keep asking...where are you going to get the $5000 to pay for a new roof, how are you going to pay for the $4,500 tax bill?
You don't provide ANY answers to these questions, but then happen to mention that $49,000 of debt has magically been repaid!!

Don't you think it is important to explain how that is possible?

[MayDay]

If you magically got 40K to pay of the IRS, why haven't you magically gotten 4K to get a roof on the rental house?   

[researcher1]

For people who seem to be very indecisive in their real life, the beatles are very firm about how they want to interact with this forum, i.e. how responses should be focussed, what topics are off limits, what tone is OK or not, what information should be given or not.

That's OK but I'm confused about what the beatles actually want from the forum?  Can't help but think it's partly (mostly?) attention, to be honest. (The actual advice doesn't seem welcome. But maybe it's being absorbed.)

Excellent observation.  I think you are 100% correct. 

I'll continue watching this thread, but I think it is useless for anyone to post any further advice. 
Thebeatles don't seem to process anything that is said, only share bits/pieces of information, constantly flip-flop on what they intend to do, have an endless supply of magical money that wipes out debts, ect.

[john6221]

Methinks thebeatles are actually teaching a class on how to be world-class online trolls.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[theotherbeatle]

For people who seem to be very indecisive in their real life, the beatles are very firm about how they want to interact with this forum, i.e. how responses should be focussed, what topics are off limits, what tone is OK or not, what information should be given or not.

That's OK but I'm confused about what the beatles actually want from the forum?  Can't help but think it's partly (mostly?) attention, to be honest. (The actual advice doesn't seem welcome. But maybe it's being absorbed.)  And the forum, including me, delivers!

*considers popcorn for breakfast*

I'm sorry that it has appeared this way. It's not like that in actuality. We are very much absorbing and taking action on much of the advice given. We texted the tenant this morning to find out when is a good day for us to come by with the realtor.

[theotherbeatle]

It is okay not to give every detail of our life, I would think. I feel that the pieces can be put together without us having to spell everything out and air our laundry out here. Hopefully you understand.

But you are leaving out crucial pieces of information!!  And without this information no one can give you meaningful advice!!

The main issue at hand is getting rid of this rental property. 
You keep fighting back with everyone, wanting to keep the property until you are assured you can get top dollar for it.

Yet we keep asking...where are you going to get the $5000 to pay for a new roof, how are you going to pay for the $4,500 tax bill?
You don't provide ANY answers to these questions, but then happen to mention that $49,000 of debt has magically been repaid!!

Don't you think it is important to explain how that is possible?

I private messaged you.

[Goldielocks]

3rd realtor responded. Said the same thing as the first two. Cash only unless the buyer is willing to pay for the roof prior to closing.

This is more common than you think...

I would just ask your parents for the money, as they would get it back within 6 months anyway.  I think you said it was $5-$6k to get enough roof done for financing?

Or, sell a car or something else, like find a temporary weekend job to pay for it, barter your services with the roofing company... ask the roofing company for financing or to delay full payment (showing your new paycheck)...  ask friends, other?   

Even if you don't sell the rental, that roof needs to be done ASAP for your insurance / tenants / investment.

[Malum Prohibitum]

Sell all three houses . . .





****


Hundreds of thousands in equity converted to cash . . .

I understand your point, I do. Thank you for being so helpful and concerned. But please, allow us to stay on topic with the rental I beg you.

  Ok.  But in post #102, a part of it said "Replace the roof.  Use a credit card."

Do you have $4000 available on a credit card?

Can you sell enough crap to get $4000?

I agree that the roof needs to be fixed.  That would be true even if you were not selling it.

A buyer can fix it.

You are convinced that this would cost you $35000 at sale time.  I am not convinced, but it is you that must make the decision, so I say, fine, fix the roof.  Now please tell us how you are going to pay for that $4000.

Can you sell stuff to get it?

Can you borrow it?

Your husband's side gig will not bring it in within a short enough window of time.  I would not want to wait until May to replace something this important.

[Goldielocks]

theotherbeatle

Can I point out that the type and pattern of your responses in the past 48 hours is amazingly similar to beatles posting style, after the first posting?  (I noticed because beatles had a unusual posting style / frequency / type of comment for this forum, in general).


May you are now the beatles posting under a wife's name?

[Malum Prohibitum]

theotherbeatle

Can I point out that the type and pattern of your responses in the past 48 hours is amazingly similar to beatles posting style, after the first posting?  (I noticed because beatles had a unusual posting style / frequency / type of comment for this forum, in general).


May you are now the beatles posting under a wife's name?

Would admitting that be grounds for a ban of this second username?  Just asking.

[theotherbeatle]

theotherbeatle

Can I point out that the type and pattern of your responses in the past 48 hours is amazingly similar to beatles posting style, after the first posting?  (I noticed because beatles had a unusual posting style / frequency / type of comment for this forum, in general).


May you are now the beatles posting under a wife's name?

The beatles is my husband. A mod is welcome to call me on my cell phone to verify if they wish.

Likely wont be necessary though, I think i've received the answer that I came here for. Thanks.