Author Topic: The beatles Case Study  (Read 290023 times)

BlueHouse

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #350 on: January 10, 2017, 10:40:02 AM »
I mean, do you feel bad that Donald Trump's kids get money from their dad? Or just non-billionaire parents?

Yes, I do feel badly that they get such a huge head start in life and in business because of their parentage.  I believe in meritocracy (although, not total).  It sickens me that Donald Trump thinks he is more successful than I am or that he believes he is smarter than I am.  He started out with vastly more than I did and was able to keep it without losing too much to inflation.  Pretty sure anyone on this forum could have done better.  His children clearly believe that he (and they) deserve the wealth they have.  And that attitude really really bothers me. 

kms

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #351 on: January 10, 2017, 10:44:13 AM »
I derive happiness from a nice house. So we spend some of our money on things like throw pillows and new paint. But I shop around, and put up with the fact that some of our rooms will stay outdated for a few years. I buy what I can used (like our dresser and night stands) and shop sales for other things (like a new duvet cover when our old one had holes all over it). I don't think it's bad to like having nice things, I love watching HGTV and admiring houses...just do it within your budget. And if you have to put it on a credit card it's likely not in your budget (we use credit cards for purchases for the points and protection it offers, but pay in full each month).

I think this is a very important comment, and it's spot on. There are way too many extreme frugalists in these forums, which can be shockingly discouraging (or rather just shocking) even to regulars such as myself. Someone such as beatles, who is not familiar with the system and has been living a life of unaccounted for luxury needs to be shown that a frugal life does not mean complete and utter abstinence. If they come here looking for help and then read about people using broken glass shards for mirrors I guarantee they will promptly turn away again and never think back. The bottom line is to figure out what's important and then prioritize within ones means. For some it's a nicely decorated family home, some pimp out their cars, and others spend their money travelling around the globe. And that's absolutely fine, there's no one-ring-rules-them-all solution here. That's very important to understand.

Still, given the amount of debt that beatles is in my personal advice would be to try and monetarize as much furniture as conveniently possible. After all he was the one considering Sept 2017 a long way into the future asking how to speed things up, and selling furniture one does not really need (the old WANT vs. NEED debate) is certainly one way to pay off ones debt exponentially faster.

Cowardly Toaster

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #352 on: January 10, 2017, 10:50:45 AM »
I mean, do you feel bad that Donald Trump's kids get money from their dad? Or just non-billionaire parents?

Yes, I do feel badly that they get such a huge head start in life and in business because of their parentage.  I believe in meritocracy (although, not total).  It sickens me that Donald Trump thinks he is more successful than I am or that he believes he is smarter than I am.  He started out with vastly more than I did and was able to keep it without losing too much to inflation.  Pretty sure anyone on this forum could have done better.  His children clearly believe that he (and they) deserve the wealth they have.  And that attitude really really bothers me.

Let's not derail an excellent thread by talking about the political situation. There are threads elsewhere for that.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #353 on: January 10, 2017, 10:57:55 AM »
I derive happiness from a nice house. So we spend some of our money on things like throw pillows and new paint. But I shop around, and put up with the fact that some of our rooms will stay outdated for a few years. I buy what I can used (like our dresser and night stands) and shop sales for other things (like a new duvet cover when our old one had holes all over it). I don't think it's bad to like having nice things, I love watching HGTV and admiring houses...just do it within your budget. And if you have to put it on a credit card it's likely not in your budget (we use credit cards for purchases for the points and protection it offers, but pay in full each month).

I think this is a very important comment, and it's spot on. There are way too many extreme frugalists in these forums, which can be shockingly discouraging (or rather just shocking) even to regulars such as myself. Someone such as beatles, who is not familiar with the system and has been living a life of unaccounted for luxury needs to be shown that a frugal life does not mean complete and utter abstinence. If they come here looking for help and then read about people using broken glass shards for mirrors I guarantee they will promptly turn away again and never think back. The bottom line is to figure out what's important and then prioritize within ones means. For some it's a nicely decorated family home, some pimp out their cars, and others spend their money travelling around the globe. And that's absolutely fine, there's no one-ring-rules-them-all solution here. That's very important to understand.

Still, given the amount of debt that beatles is in my personal advice would be to try and monetarize as much furniture as conveniently possible. After all he was the one considering Sept 2017 a long way into the future asking how to speed things up, and selling furniture one does not really need (the old WANT vs. NEED debate) is certainly one way to pay off ones debt exponentially faster.

Agree entirely. I started writing a post replying to the "broken glass shards" comment and was so frustrated that I couldn't even finish it. I understand the goal (changing perspective), but good heavens, there's a line where "advice" is so impractical that it's more harmful than helpful.

Beatles--don't let the extreme frugalists distract you from the overall message:

1. Identify your needs;
2. Seek to maximize efficiency and reduce costs with respect to these needs;
3. Identify wants and their relative importance in your life;
4. Seek to eliminate wants that are pressured by society and focus on wants that truly bring you joy;
5. Spend as efficiently as possible on these wants;
6. Never spend beyond your means.

In one way or another, all 350+ posts relate to this basic line of thinking. Some are extreme to the point that it drives me--a fellow frugalist--absolutely insane; others are spot on. There's a ton of good wisdom here and I hope it helps.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 11:02:15 AM by ReadySetMillionaire »

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #354 on: January 10, 2017, 11:06:23 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #355 on: January 10, 2017, 11:07:00 AM »

That sounds good.

Sept 2017 is far away though.

How do I make it happen faster?

You START here. Once you have DONE THIS you tackle your grocery spending, your sense of entitlement and all of the other problems you have. You have been given so many ideas and options and things to consider doing at this point, you have to stop making excuses and asking for MORE INFORMATION and DO THE WORK - that is how you make it happen faster.

What sense of entitlement?

Can you point to a specific thing so I know what you're speaking of.

Wanting to default on your credit cards and reward yourself with a trip to Hawaii is entitlement.

I never said I wanted to, I said that was advice given to me.

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #356 on: January 10, 2017, 11:07:59 AM »
Good grief, 350 comments in two days?  Beatles, I applaud you for not giving up already.  I would have run for the hills when I was new if I had received that type of welcome. 

Okay, so here's another perspective from someone who is not all that frugal but who has really learned a lot over the past few years on this forum.  I've made some life-changing decisions based on knowledge and advice from some of the people who are giving you advice now, and I've been implementing it as I can incorporate it into my life. 

1.  People on this forum tend to be self-made and we're proud of our accomplishments, even more so when we endure some pain (stoicism) or baddassity to get there.  So when you consider taking an easy-out (your parents), you'll get whiplash from all the face-punches! 

2.  Regarding the stocism and badassity mentioned above, it's a real badge of honor around these parts to do something that others might consider a hardship and to find joy in doing it.  If we could all walk 10 miles in the snow to school each day, we would!  But not everyone adopts badassity in every aspect of their life.  I might do one badass thing, like install my own plumbing fixtures or try a DIY project, but then be a sissy and hire cleaners to wash my windows.  You've been pounded from all directions by different people who want to be badass, but you don't have to do ALL of these things.  Just get started and start making progress.

3.  Regarding the groceries and eating out.  I hate cooking and I find every excuse in the world not to do it, but I've improved 10-fold since finding the MMM path.  I do use a slow cooker and make at least one big batch of something per week for all of my lunches.  I still have a long way to go because I see how large my grocery bill is and when I add it all up, I think about how many future days I could buy with the food I throw in the garbage each week.  This year I'll focus on groceries and planning my meals better.  I had an injury a few years ago and having groceries delivered once per week forced me to plan (and stick to that plan).  But I let go of that when I could walk again and I need to reinstitute some of that planning.

4.  Your couches, TV, house.  I bought a too-big house and budgeted to furnish it in my first few years.  I spent a shit-ton of money.  It's furnished.  I look like all of my neighbors and have a couch and a TV where you would expect to find them.  That's not how you find happiness.  Another poster mentioned to stay off Facebook -- I agree, it's an environment that is all about "keeping up with the Joneses".  Instead, I read these forums and I try to keep up by seeing how low I can get my thermostat.  Or how long I can go without using my car (I don't use my car on weekends anymore unless I'm sleeping somewhere that is not my house - I do all my errands by foot or by bike!)  These things make me so proud to see what I'm capable of and after you do it for a while, you don't want to go back. 

5.  Buying stuff -- no-spend days, weeks, or months are challenging at first.  I started with cash-only and if I didn't have the cash, I walked out of a store.  Can't tell you how many times I did a "Shop and Drop" when I got started.  It forced me to prioritize what I really needed.  Especially in the grocery store. 

Point is, all the trappings of normal suburban life are really trappings -- they're not getting you what you really want.  Slow and steady wins this race.  Find a way to get your wife on board.  Small things count and they lead to bigger things.

Good luck, I'm rooting for you!

This is awesome!

Thanks so much for the perspective!

Bracken_Joy

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #357 on: January 10, 2017, 11:08:23 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Once you're debt free? A good deal, when you need it, is a great idea.

But right now? People have been chipping cars out of snow for a long time. Until your hair is no longer on fire (aka, debt emergency), then you only get your NEEDS, not your WANTS, if you are going to get out of this giant hole.

YoungGranny

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #358 on: January 10, 2017, 11:09:36 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

You don't save any money when you're still buying unnecessary things. I live in MI and don't have a remote starter so saying you NEED one is inaccurate. You may WANT one and IF you still want it in 3+ years after all your debt is paid off and you've saved a nice emergency fund then MAYBE you can get it. MAYBE. Deals always exist, don't let them set you back to get it right now.

honeybbq

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #359 on: January 10, 2017, 11:10:08 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Did you read the MMM post about consumer suckers? You're not saving 300. You're SPENDING 200!

ysette9

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #360 on: January 10, 2017, 11:10:25 AM »
I agree that the uber-frugal comments can drive some people away and there is the risk of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Personally we are not very frugal at all compared to the standards around here, though we outwardly appear to spend much less than most other people around us. I cut my husband's hair, we do most cooking at home, have old, used furniture, and buy my kid's clothes second-hand. On the other hands, we spend more in rent than many people here spend in a month and our rent plus childcare is probably more than many people take home in a year. We also have the luxury of spending freely at the grocery store, buying new socks whenever the old ones have holes, go on vacation to Hawaii if we feel like it because we are blessed with high incomes. That doesn't stop us from practicing the fundamentals of mustachianism: be thoughtful about our purchases, identify what truly brings us joy and spend money freely there, all while saving a significant portion of our income.

The benefit I do see to everyone chiming in about how they only own one 20 year-old used couch is that it helps to counterbalance all of the commercials and other messages that are sent out all the time about how it is normal to spend-spend-spend. Not only is it okay to have cheap furniture and a small-ish house, it is normal around here. Humans are very social so it is hard to buck the trends of those around you. THat is the very reason we find each other online here so we can all pat each other on the back and normalize what feels very abnormal in the "real" world.

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #361 on: January 10, 2017, 11:11:13 AM »
In that case maybe I take back what I said about selling them early. Maybe you should try and sell them for 2k and pay them off right away. Think about it.

By the way: sofas? as in plural? If so why would you need more than one? How many sofas can you sit on at the same time? Or has your ass become so big from all the pop and snacks that you need more than one sofa to fit on comfortably? (just kidding)

Lmao!

I laughed at that ass comment.

But seriously, you only have one sofa in your house? There's one for the living room, one for the sitting room, one for the basement, and we were thinking about one for the bedroom.

Maybe it's a local thing?

Yes - I have two in my vacation home and two in my regular home.  But my NW is over $4M, and our annual income is over 5 times yours. I paid cash for all four of them.  And NONE OF THEM COST $1000 EACH.  I'm wondering what is wrong with you when you are still laughing about this?  You are freely admitting that paying for these will cost you more than 10% of what you earn in a year.  Do you see how absolutely ridiculous that is? 

I think until you are able to come to terms with what you can really afford - you are doomed to fail.  We lived in a brand new house for 4 years before furnishing the living room - waiting until we could pay cash for that furniture. I think in the back of your mind - you believe you are as well off as your parents are - and that drives your spending - and so does the fact that you know that they will bail you out and pat you on the head and tell you what a good boy you are.

It might well be the case that you are going to inherit a bunch of money.  I can guarantee you that if you don't learn to live within your means now you will blow right through that and end up working until you die the way you are going.  You'll just ratchet up the spending.  If you are serious about getting on track and getting your finances under control - part of what you need to do is to come to grips with this attitude.

I know this is going to make me sound bad, but my biggest question from this post is "What the heck do you do that makes you over $300k and how do I get into that business?"

Haha :)

begood

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #362 on: January 10, 2017, 11:11:57 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed WANTED a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Fixed that for you, beatles. That's a want, not a need. You don't have a garage?

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #363 on: January 10, 2017, 11:13:58 AM »
Having just chewed through all 300+ posts I would like to express how incredibly impressed I am with the forum for all of the advice, suggestions and patience displayed.

Thread should be stickied for all the goodness. It basically covers absolutely everything one needs to know to get their shit together.

Beatles man - which one do you resemble? John, Ringo, George or Paul? I feel like it would be easier to interact with you if you had a name that we can identify you as :)

Definitely John!

swick

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #364 on: January 10, 2017, 11:14:49 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

A good deal is not a good deal IF YOU DON'T have the money to buy it outright, in cash. You put in on your card tack on AT LEAST 20% more in interest.

Again, you need to go back to what is a need vs. a want. I have lived Northern, remote Canada where we need block heaters just to run a car, and we still have never had a remote car starter.

I get that you are a marketer, it is your job to convince people to buy things. DON'T LET THE SAME PHYCOLOGICAL TRICKS YOU USE BE USED ON YOU. You KNOW the TRICKS you can't claim ignorance.

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #365 on: January 10, 2017, 11:15:12 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed WANTED a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Fixed that for you, beatles. That's a want, not a need. You don't have a garage?

We do, but it's full of stuff.

Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #366 on: January 10, 2017, 11:16:17 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Once you're debt free? A good deal, when you need it, is a great idea.

But right now? People have been chipping cars out of snow for a long time. Until your hair is no longer on fire (aka, debt emergency), then you only get your NEEDS, not your WANTS, if you are going to get out of this giant hole.

OK.

Fair enough.

Cowardly Toaster

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #367 on: January 10, 2017, 11:17:41 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Start thinking about the word "need," and only apply it where it is actually appropriate. And gas cars don't need to warm up for more than 2 minutes. So bundle up, start your car, play on your cellphone for a bit, then start driving. Save yourself money on gas from idling and the fancy autostart.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #368 on: January 10, 2017, 11:18:25 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

You are still confused about needs versus wants. This is a great way to test your judgment and apply the analysis I set forth above.

Do you NEED a remote car starter? No.
Do you WANT a remote car starter? Yes.
How IMPORTANT is that want? Answer is probably moderately, considering you brush snow off your car for what, three months of the year.
Would it be EFFICIENT to buy that now given your current situation? Absolutely not.

I too live in the snowbelt (NE Ohio). I've wanted a remote starter since I've had my car (2008) and still don't have one. Usually because I say "meh I'll wait one more year." Usually the winter passes and then I don't care too much anymore--this is a classic example of letting time help you realize that something is a want, not a need. Understanding that difference is the key to saving $200 on a purchase you don't need.


ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #369 on: January 10, 2017, 11:20:05 AM »
We do, but it's full of stuff.

Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

Looks like you found a weekend project! Move all that stuff to the basement and reward yourself with a nice and cozy spot to park your car throughout the winter. It's free!

begood

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #370 on: January 10, 2017, 11:21:25 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed WANTED a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Fixed that for you, beatles. That's a want, not a need. You don't have a garage?

We do, but it's full of stuff.

Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

That's actually great news, beatles. SELL ALL THAT SHIT. Then you will have money in your pocket and your car in the garage.

Win/Win.

Do you understand how it sounds when you say you want to spend $200 on a remote car starter because you have a kid-size motorized jeep taking up the space in your garage where you should park your car?

Cowardly Toaster

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #371 on: January 10, 2017, 11:23:49 AM »
We do, but it's full of stuff.

Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

Looks like you found a weekend project! Move all that stuff to the basement and reward yourself with a nice and cozy spot to park your car throughout the winter. It's free!

Do you by any chance have a bunch of high end tools laying around? If you do, save your drill, circular saw, saws all, a few basic hand tools and your socket kit, sell the rest on ebay or craigslist. Use the cash to pay some of that CC debt.

former player

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #372 on: January 10, 2017, 11:26:02 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed WANTED a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Fixed that for you, beatles. That's a want, not a need. You don't have a garage?

We do, but it's full of stuff.

Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.
Your two and four year olds have motorized jeeps? Oh my.

Look, sell everything that is stopping you from getting your car in the garage.  List it on Craigslist.   Then put your car in the garage.  You should have several hundred pounds, at least, to pay off your credit cards with, you will be keeping your car in better condition so it will look and run better for longer, and you will no longer even want the remote starter.

I think I get it: your solution to everything so far has always been to buy something (except the wife and kids, I hope).   From now on, please exercise your undoubted intellect and find the solutions which don't involve buying something.

marielle

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #373 on: January 10, 2017, 11:29:31 AM »
We do, but it's full of stuff.

Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

Looks like you found a weekend project! Move all that stuff to the basement and reward yourself with a nice and cozy spot to park your car throughout the winter. It's free!

I would add to even sell that stuff, kids that young don't need motorized vehicles or can even appreciate them right now, and you can't afford to participate in expensive sports hobbies right now. The money you save right now by selling that stuff to pay debt down is probably more than enough to buy the same stuff again in a year (USED). Especially if it's seasonal/summer stuff you can't use right now anyway.

Cowardly Toaster

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #374 on: January 10, 2017, 11:34:18 AM »
This might be controversial with other Mustachians, but could you have a big garage sale this spring? Get together things you don't need, put good prices on all of it and start selling. Any proceeds you get go to paying debt.

Best items to sell: Dvds, tools, sporting equipment, extra toys, jewelry, unused kitchen stuff, furniture. Clothes probably won't sell well but you can put them out too. Of course, anything really highend should be sold on Craigslist, for example, high quality chainsaws or generators.


Iplawyer

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #375 on: January 10, 2017, 11:38:49 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

That house doesn't have a garage?  And it has more than one area for a couch?

No - you don't get the remote car starter until you have no debt and you can pay cash - even if it is less than half price.

honeybbq

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #376 on: January 10, 2017, 11:40:45 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed WANTED a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Fixed that for you, beatles. That's a want, not a need. You don't have a garage?

We do, but it's full of stuff.

Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

A 2 yr old and a 4 yr old don't need motorized jeep(S!!). Sell that stuff pronto, get your car spot back, and you can pat yourself on the back on doing something proactive!

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #377 on: January 10, 2017, 11:42:22 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

You are still confused about needs versus wants. This is a great way to test your judgment and apply the analysis I set forth above.

Do you NEED a remote car starter? No.
Do you WANT a remote car starter? Yes.
How IMPORTANT is that want? Answer is probably moderately, considering you brush snow off your car for what, three months of the year.
Would it be EFFICIENT to buy that now given your current situation? Absolutely not.

I too live in the snowbelt (NE Ohio). I've wanted a remote starter since I've had my car (2008) and still don't have one. Usually because I say "meh I'll wait one more year." Usually the winter passes and then I don't care too much anymore--this is a classic example of letting time help you realize that something is a want, not a need. Understanding that difference is the key to saving $200 on a purchase you don't need.

Good point!

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #378 on: January 10, 2017, 11:43:16 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed WANTED a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Fixed that for you, beatles. That's a want, not a need. You don't have a garage?

We do, but it's full of stuff.

Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

A 2 yr old and a 4 yr old don't need motorized jeep(S!!). Sell that stuff pronto, get your car spot back, and you can pat yourself on the back on doing something proactive!

Oh come on, you can't sell a kids prized possesion!

Break their little heart.

Iplawyer

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #379 on: January 10, 2017, 11:43:55 AM »
In that case maybe I take back what I said about selling them early. Maybe you should try and sell them for 2k and pay them off right away. Think about it.

By the way: sofas? as in plural? If so why would you need more than one? How many sofas can you sit on at the same time? Or has your ass become so big from all the pop and snacks that you need more than one sofa to fit on comfortably? (just kidding)



Lmao!

I laughed at that ass comment.

But seriously, you only have one sofa in your house? There's one for the living room, one for the sitting room, one for the basement, and we were thinking about one for the bedroom.

Maybe it's a local thing?

Yes - I have two in my vacation home and two in my regular home.  But my NW is over $4M, and our annual income is over 5 times yours. I paid cash for all four of them.  And NONE OF THEM COST $1000 EACH.  I'm wondering what is wrong with you when you are still laughing about this?  You are freely admitting that paying for these will cost you more than 10% of what you earn in a year.  Do you see how absolutely ridiculous that is? 

I think until you are able to come to terms with what you can really afford - you are doomed to fail.  We lived in a brand new house for 4 years before furnishing the living room - waiting until we could pay cash for that furniture. I think in the back of your mind - you believe you are as well off as your parents are - and that drives your spending - and so does the fact that you know that they will bail you out and pat you on the head and tell you what a good boy you are.

It might well be the case that you are going to inherit a bunch of money.  I can guarantee you that if you don't learn to live within your means now you will blow right through that and end up working until you die the way you are going.  You'll just ratchet up the spending.  If you are serious about getting on track and getting your finances under control - part of what you need to do is to come to grips with this attitude.

I know this is going to make me sound bad, but my biggest question from this post is "What the heck do you do that makes you over $300k and how do I get into that business?"

Haha :)

Together my husband and I have 4 STEM degrees between us and I have a law degree in addition to that - all paid in cash as you go - BTW.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #380 on: January 10, 2017, 11:44:38 AM »
Do you understand how it sounds when you say you want to spend $200 on a remote car starter because you have a kid-size motorized jeep taking up the space in your garage where you should park your car?

What a line.

And I'm going to disagree with some other posters--don't sell them, just move them in your house in the winter. Also, you don't need to sell every non-essential item. Just go through some sort of value system and identify the important things.

RetiredAt63

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #381 on: January 10, 2017, 11:45:10 AM »
This might be controversial with other Mustachians, but could you have a big garage sale this spring? Get together things you don't need, put good prices on all of it and start selling. Any proceeds you get go to paying debt.

Best items to sell: Dvds, tools, sporting equipment, extra toys, jewelry, unused kitchen stuff, furniture. Clothes probably won't sell well but you can put them out too. Of course, anything really highend should be sold on Craigslist, for example, high quality chainsaws or generators.

Not at all controversial, it was a contest to see who could suggest it first.  Those kids Jeeps can go on Craigslist too.

Garages are for cars.  If there is space, then garden equipment.  Your kids have legs, let them use them.  A tricycle for the little one, a tricycle or bicycle with trainer wheels for the older one.  Bought used this spring - no point buying new, they will outgrow them so fast.  A local school or Y may well have a sports equipment trade sale in the spring or fall, bikes and things in the spring, skiis and skates and things in the fall.  But yard sales.  Seriously.  Or Craigslist.  And then you and your wife and kids have some good times together while you adjust the bikes so they fit the kids and then they learn to ride them.

PS  Remote starter - not a need - I have lived north of you all my life, am on my 6th (at least) car, and have never had a starter.  And have spent 20 minutes standing in freezing rain scraping ice off my car at work.  It's life in this part of the world.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 11:49:14 AM by RetiredAt63 »

ysette9

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #382 on: January 10, 2017, 11:46:15 AM »
Back to your question on how someone earns so much money, I can't answer for that particular poster, but we earn more than that by being two engineers in a HCOL area. There is a separate thread around here for "what do you do and how much do you earn?" that you might find interesting when you need a little down time.

RetiredAt63

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #383 on: January 10, 2017, 11:48:07 AM »

Oh come on, you can't sell a kids prized possesion!

Break their little heart.

You are joking, right?  You forgot the ;-)

Bikes are much more interactive and fun (and cheaper, secondhand).  First bikes have a rough life, you don't want new or fancy.

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #384 on: January 10, 2017, 11:50:57 AM »



Do you understand how it sounds when you say you want to spend $200 on a remote car starter because you have a kid-size motorized jeep taking up the space in your garage where you should park your car?

Yeah that doesn't sound good.

OurTown

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #385 on: January 10, 2017, 11:53:01 AM »
What a fantastic thread.  I really hope the OP takes advantage of all the knowledge and wisdom being imparted here.  Don't get defensive about the tone, just do what needs to be done.

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #386 on: January 10, 2017, 11:54:08 AM »
Back to your question on how someone earns so much money, I can't answer for that particular poster, but we earn more than that by being two engineers in a HCOL area. There is a separate thread around here for "what do you do and how much do you earn?" that you might find interesting when you need a little down time.

What type of engineer?

I have two friends. One is an electrical engineer and the other is a software engineer.

Both make under 100k.

It may be our area though.

begood

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #387 on: January 10, 2017, 11:55:09 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed WANTED a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Fixed that for you, beatles. That's a want, not a need. You don't have a garage?

We do, but it's full of stuff.

Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

A 2 yr old and a 4 yr old don't need motorized jeep(S!!). Sell that stuff pronto, get your car spot back, and you can pat yourself on the back on doing something proactive!

Oh come on, you can't sell a kids prized possesion!

Break their little heart.

Sell them now and your kids will not even remember them. What will really break their hearts is if they can't afford to go to college in 15 years.

You owe tens of thousands of dollars for things you've already bought and obligations you have not fulfilled. Every day you don't pay them off, the price goes up.

It sounds like you have a garage full of "KA-CHING" that could be headed off to credit card debt. Get that ball rolling, son!


The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #388 on: January 10, 2017, 11:55:53 AM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.

Iplawyer

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #389 on: January 10, 2017, 11:57:58 AM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed WANTED a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

Fixed that for you, beatles. That's a want, not a need. You don't have a garage?

We do, but it's full of stuff.

Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

A 2 yr old and a 4 yr old don't need motorized jeep(S!!). Sell that stuff pronto, get your car spot back, and you can pat yourself on the back on doing something proactive!

Oh come on, you can't sell a kids prized possesion!

Break their little heart.

I've got the solution for you then.  Park the prized possession out where your car is parked and park your car where it is.  Of the two of you - you have less time to spend on digging out of the snow then the 4 year old does - and the 4 year old is not very likely driving in the snow anyway. And his car  isn't depreciating nearly as much as yours is sitting out in the weather.

But really Beatles - read what you wrote and really think about it.  FIND SOMEWHERE TO STORE THE TOY IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SELL IT AND PARK YOUR CAR IN THE GARAGE. 

Cowardly Toaster

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #390 on: January 10, 2017, 11:59:45 AM »
I don't want to intrude on your personal life, but your wife might be in shock. She might not like the idea of changing your family's habits because it will make her feel "less than" other Americans.

I'd two things ASAP: Do some sort of frugal activity with the family that is fun. Cook a good meal maybe and have the five year old pitch in? I'll post my excellent chili recipe over in my journal to get you started.

Next: Show your wife how much better you feel now that you know everything will be alright financially. Talk to her about your plans for the finances, projecting confidence. Show her the sense of relief that can come with good financial planning.

One last idea. Write a list of all the things you want. Hawaii vacation, car start, new car, new fishing pole, whatever. Then look through the list and show yourself that you don't need a single one of them.

former player

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #391 on: January 10, 2017, 12:00:55 PM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.
Some do, some don't.  One of the mods round here, Arebelspy, retired in his 30s on public school teacher income.  I was a civil servant earning not much more than you do now at top whack.  Generally the ones who earned less started working, saving and investing earlier on in life, and rode the life-changing magic of compound interest working for them rather than against them (as it is currently working against you), or retired a little later (I retired at 50 with multiple millions).

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #392 on: January 10, 2017, 12:01:07 PM »
I haven't read through all the comments on this thread (I can't keep up as new ones are posted) but I wanted to say you don't have to be as extreme as some people here to still live frugally, it's all relative.

For example, we own two TVs, a couch, and TWO love seats and two chairs! But all were paid for with cash, one of the love seats is from Craigslist and the other set we bought last year when we got our house and suddenly had a living room and a family room (and no, it's not a McMansion, it's 1200 square feet, just well laid out). Perhaps it's excessive, and generally we only use one room at a time (my husband and I generally like spending time together), but sometimes he wants to play video games in one room while I watch a show in the other room. We already had both TVs from when we lived in two homes, and we were easily able to afford the new couch set while still paying aggressively on our student loans.

I derive happiness from a nice house. So we spend some of our money on things like throw pillows and new paint. But I shop around, and put up with the fact that some of our rooms will stay outdated for a few years. I buy what I can used (like our dresser and night stands) and shop sales for other things (like a new duvet cover when our old one had holes all over it). I don't think it's bad to like having nice things, I love watching HGTV and admiring houses...just do it within your budget. And if you have to put it on a credit card it's likely not in your budget (we use credit cards for purchases for the points and protection it offers, but pay in full each month).

Congrats on the progress you have made, and good luck in the future.

I just can't get over the thought of buying used furniture on Craigslist.

Every time I sat on the couch I would think of the fact that someone else probably had sex on this thing, or sat in their boxers on it sometime, or was scratching who knows what on it, or had their dog on it ... Etc.

That doesn't gross anyone out?


OurTown

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #393 on: January 10, 2017, 12:03:29 PM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.
Some do, some don't.  One of the mods round here, Arebelspy, retired in his 30s on public school teacher income.  I was a civil servant earning not much more than you do now at top whack.  Generally the ones who earned less started working, saving and investing earlier on in life, and rode the life-changing magic of compound interest working for them rather than against them (as it is currently working against you), or retired a little later (I retired at 50 with multiple millions).

Yeah, I made shit for income until about 2010.  Even now, we are well under 200k income as a family unit.

kms

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #394 on: January 10, 2017, 12:05:31 PM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.
No facepunch, just something to think about.

It doesn't matter how much money you make. What matters is the difference between how much you make and how much you spend. Obviously someone making 300k a year can afford more than someone making 65k a year. Yet in this thread you see people making 100k, 200k, or 300k a year that do not have three couches, three TVs, two cars, two motorized jeeps for their kids, and who are debt-free. Not because they make so much more than you do but because they spend so much less. Because they don't go out and binge shop for $3000 TV sets. Because they know the difference between want and need.

And quite honestly 65k is not bad. We've had people making significantly less who still managed to get out of debt and live a financially sound life. And we've seen people making 300k who somehow managed to pile up millions of dollars of debt because they thought with 300k they could afford everything. Just like you.

YoungGranny

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #395 on: January 10, 2017, 12:06:03 PM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.

But that *IS* a HUGE excuse! And most people making that much money on this forum live on significantly less that you do! The point is to learn to live within your budget NOT theirs! I know it's hard to adjust your lifestyle down but it's so, so worth it. Growing up my Dad made a lot of money, but when I was 14 he hit financial hardships and flexed his mustachian muscles it taught me valuable life lessons like grocery shopping on a budget, layering clothes because our thermostat was set to 60 degrees in the winter, having fun by playing cards etc.

I was able to pay off $18k of student loan debt in 1 year after graduating on a $50k salary living in Chicago.

I was also able to save $40k to buy my first house 3 years after graduating (without sacrificing 401k, IRA contribution).

The only debt I have is my mortgage and I bought a rental unit with cash earlier this year. I don't make $300k but I've learned to live within my means.

I don't say this to brag and quite frankly I'm not as frugal as I could/should be. All the little cuts add up though and it makes a big difference, but you have to stop making excuses and start taking action!

Trifle

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #396 on: January 10, 2017, 12:06:21 PM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.
Some do, some don't.  One of the mods round here, Arebelspy, retired in his 30s on public school teacher income.  I was a civil servant earning not much more than you do now at top whack.  Generally the ones who earned less started working, saving and investing earlier on in life, and rode the life-changing magic of compound interest working for them rather than against them (as it is currently working against you), or retired a little later (I retired at 50 with multiple millions).

Beatles -- it's a mix.  But there are LOADS of people on the forum that make less than you do.  You do NOT have to be a high earner to get ahead.

begood

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #397 on: January 10, 2017, 12:06:53 PM »
Me! It grosses me out! I don't buy used furniture. But we lived with family hand-me-downs for the first 7 years of our married life, while we saved money to buy new.

Try not to worry about how well or how poorly other people are doing.

"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself." -- Desiderata

Work within your framework. What we learned today is that you have a garage full of sports equipment, motorized kids' jeeps, and tools. People will buy those things from you for cold, hard cash. I really meant it when I said it was great news. Imagine knocking out a few of those credit cards AND having a place to park your car. Stuff is just... stuff. Is it Mr. Money Mustache himself who says he stores stuff on Craigslist?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 12:08:29 PM by begood »

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #398 on: January 10, 2017, 12:08:09 PM »

One last idea. Write a list of all the things you want. Hawaii vacation, car start, new car, new fishing pole, whatever. Then look through the list and show yourself that you don't need a single one of them.

LMAO!

I'm just imagining how that is going to go.

"Ok honey, think about the palm trees ... The warm breezy air ... The clear blue ocean ... The pina colada's. Thinking about all that now? OK... *slap* You dont need that! Now get back to chopping carrots"

I'm not sure i'd wake up the next day...

Trifle

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #399 on: January 10, 2017, 12:08:45 PM »
I haven't read through all the comments on this thread (I can't keep up as new ones are posted) but I wanted to say you don't have to be as extreme as some people here to still live frugally, it's all relative.

For example, we own two TVs, a couch, and TWO love seats and two chairs! But all were paid for with cash, one of the love seats is from Craigslist and the other set we bought last year when we got our house and suddenly had a living room and a family room (and no, it's not a McMansion, it's 1200 square feet, just well laid out). Perhaps it's excessive, and generally we only use one room at a time (my husband and I generally like spending time together), but sometimes he wants to play video games in one room while I watch a show in the other room. We already had both TVs from when we lived in two homes, and we were easily able to afford the new couch set while still paying aggressively on our student loans.

I derive happiness from a nice house. So we spend some of our money on things like throw pillows and new paint. But I shop around, and put up with the fact that some of our rooms will stay outdated for a few years. I buy what I can used (like our dresser and night stands) and shop sales for other things (like a new duvet cover when our old one had holes all over it). I don't think it's bad to like having nice things, I love watching HGTV and admiring houses...just do it within your budget. And if you have to put it on a credit card it's likely not in your budget (we use credit cards for purchases for the points and protection it offers, but pay in full each month).

Congrats on the progress you have made, and good luck in the future.

I just can't get over the thought of buying used furniture on Craigslist.

Every time I sat on the couch I would think of the fact that someone else probably had sex on this thing, or sat in their boxers on it sometime, or was scratching who knows what on it, or had their dog on it ... Etc.

That doesn't gross anyone out?

Yes -- I'm with you.  Used couches gross me out.  We bought ours new.  But for cash, 15 years ago.  :)