Author Topic: The beatles Case Study  (Read 263400 times)

OurTown

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #950 on: January 17, 2017, 12:51:02 PM »
What about this:
1) Sell current house.
2) Sell roof-issue rental house.
 . . .
OR
1) Sell $100K equity house
2) Sell roof-issue rental house.
. . .
OR
Sell all three houses, rent a smaller, different house where your family and wife's parents can live until you all get your financial issues in order.

LOL! 

We'll see.

The answer for a guy with over half a million in assets that are not producing income and just a small fraction of that in debt SOME OF WHICH COULD WIPE HIM OUT is to sell some of the assets and get rid of the super risky, high interest debt.

The beatles has to know this.

Sell two of the three properties.  All of the fires are immediately extinguished.

Then you can "easily" save half your income, as you suggested above, The beatles.

Works for me.  Problem solved!

begood

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1013
  • Location: SE PA
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #951 on: January 17, 2017, 12:52:40 PM »
I think the deadbeat relatives are paying rent on that $300K house. Otherwise, he'd have lost it already.
  Nope.  They are "covering costs," according to The Beatles.

Yes, I see the distinction. What I meant was that beatles wasn't paying the mortgage and the family then living there for free. The family is paying the mortgage/utilities - it's like rent, only he's not calling it that.

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #952 on: January 17, 2017, 12:53:33 PM »
Does this mean they're paying the mortgage/HELOC?  I think that's how I read it and that The Beatles is saying it doesn't matter because it's the family's problem, not his.  They couldn't get a mortgage on their own, so they're essentially stepping in for Beatles.  The issue will become what happens if the family staying in the house can no longer pay those bills, it's not in their name, it's not their credit/assets that would be affected.
  You already know what will happen when the family can no longer pay the bills, BabyShark, and so does The beatles.  This whole thread has passed the silly point now.

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #953 on: January 17, 2017, 12:54:30 PM »
You are giving quite a gift to your wife's family if they are living there rent free.

If you had renters there, what would that house rent for?

Let's say the main house would rent for $1500/month, and the apartment for $500/month.  (Numbers may not be right for your area, but just for the sake of example let's use them.)  This is $2000/month, or $24K a year in gross income that you could be making, but aren't.

Can you really afford to give your wife's family $24K a year, at the expense of your own household?

NO!!!!

They're not living there rent free.

They're paying the mortgage!

With This Herring

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1207
  • Location: New York STATE, not city
  • TANSTAAFL!
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #954 on: January 17, 2017, 12:55:18 PM »
I think the deadbeat relatives are paying rent on that $300K house. Otherwise, he'd have lost it already.
  Nope.  They are "covering costs," according to The Beatles.

I wonder how people with "a couple hundred thousand" in IRS debt are able to afford to "cover costs" on a house which beatles couldn't afford?  I wonder how far behind they have already let the mortgage and other expenses on that house get...

Iplawyer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #955 on: January 17, 2017, 12:55:50 PM »
Your deadbeat in laws are scamming you just as they are scamming the tax man.  What you say to them is "Sorry. [That bit's a lie, but you are being polite here.]  I need to take the equity out of this house, as I can't afford not to have a return on it.  I'm putting the house on the market and you need to leave.  If you still want to rent from me, I'm willing to give notice to my tenants in [rental house] and you can move in there for a rent of $600 a month.  If not, good luck finding your new home".  Then you call up an estate agent and put it on the market, pronto.  If there are renters in the annex (who are presumably paying rent to your deadbeat in laws, which is part of the in laws' scam), you look at ways to get them out before August, including an offer of payment of a thousand or so if they vacate at closing.  That gives you $100k in equity which sorts all your problems.

You urgently need to talk to an expert insurance agent about getting the rental insured.  It should be possible to get limited cover, eg for fire damage and occupier's liability but excluding water/storm damage.  That would mitigate the worst of the risk you are currently carrying.

His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance. 

How is that for a good solution?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 12:57:58 PM by ddmesser »

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #956 on: January 17, 2017, 12:56:18 PM »
For fucks sake...

The other rental is a home we owned in the past.

I actually mentioned it in this very thread, several pages ago, but left out the part that we still own it.

It's worth about $300k, and with mortgage/heloc included we owe about $200k.

It is a 2,500 sq foot house with a 1,000 sq foot apartment that is detached from the primary home, but shares a driveway.

The monthly payment was simply too much which is why we moved out.

We were going to sell the property but then my wifes family needed a place to live so a deal was worked out where they could live and just assume the bills for that property.

So we pay NOTHING over there.

It's all on them.

That's why it doesn't matter and it wasn't worth bringing up.

Fuck.
  That's HUGE, The Beatles, HUGE!

You left out a major part of your situation that affects:

Assets
Liabilities
Net Worth
Risk
Cash Flow

This changes everything!

I really don't see how this changes anything at all.

The beatles,

You are playing with me, right?

No, i'm not.

Are you saying it technically changes my overall numbers?

Ok, sure.

But my day to day life it changes nothing.

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #957 on: January 17, 2017, 12:57:22 PM »
The beatles,

Sell two of the three properties.

Your problems will be solved at the closing table, or within 24 hours (however long it takes you to mail the payoffs to each creditor).

I no longer understand your self imposed problems.

You have all the assets needed to wipe out the debts and do it now.

Yes, it changes everything.

Think about what you're saying!!!

I cant just kick my wifes family to the curb.

Maybe youre OK with that, but I am not.

I'd prefer to stay married.

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #958 on: January 17, 2017, 12:58:05 PM »
I think the deadbeat relatives are paying rent on that $300K house. Otherwise, he'd have lost it already.
  Nope.  They are "covering costs," according to The Beatles.

Yes, I see the distinction. What I meant was that beatles wasn't paying the mortgage and the family then living there for free. The family is paying the mortgage/utilities - it's like rent, only he's not calling it that.
  It's really not worth discussing.  This family living there is irresponsible, and he is taking on more risk to have them there.  The beatles is not in a position to take on more risk.  He has way too much financial risk already.

He also has six freakin' figures of equity in this property to tap by selling that place.

I see no point in discussing whether the family currently trying to cover costs is actually paying "rent" or, well, not.

I see why he hid this from us.

His solution was sitting there in front of him all the time. 

Can you imagine what this thread would have looked like if all assets/liabilities/cash flow had been disclosed in the original post?

He has over half a million in assets.  This "problem" is so easy to fix in his position that I am left laughing and shaking my head.  He only got this much discussion by hiding his assets from us.

Iplawyer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #959 on: January 17, 2017, 12:58:50 PM »
The beatles,

Sell two of the three properties.

Your problems will be solved at the closing table, or within 24 hours (however long it takes you to mail the payoffs to each creditor).

I no longer understand your self imposed problems.

You have all the assets needed to wipe out the debts and do it now.

Yes, it changes everything.

Think about what you're saying!!!

I cant just kick my wifes family to the curb.

Maybe youre OK with that, but I am not.

I'd prefer to stay married.

What is wrong with this then?

His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance. 

How is that for a good solution?

aceyou

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1669
  • Age: 41
    • Life is Good - Aceyou's Journal
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #960 on: January 17, 2017, 01:00:26 PM »
Beatles, with the two rentals, would it be accurate to say that you have a positive net worth?  If you could really quickly add up the assets vs liabilities with the 2nd rental included, I'd really appreciate seeing it. 

If you can lay that out there, then I'd like a chance to lay out a pretty simple plan that can get you squared away in way less than 8 months (disclaimer, it will likely involve you selling 3 things).  At that moment, this thread can close down and you can join the "getting to 100k net worth" thread in the throwing down the gauntlet section.   


Iplawyer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #961 on: January 17, 2017, 01:01:26 PM »
Beatles, with the two rentals, would it be accurate to say that you have a positive net worth?  If you could really quickly add up the assets vs liabilities with the 2nd rental included, I'd really appreciate seeing it. 

If you can lay that out there, then I'd like a chance to lay out a pretty simple plan that can get you squared away in way less than 8 months (disclaimer, it will likely involve you selling 3 things).  At that moment, this thread can close down and you can join the "getting to 100k net worth" thread in the throwing down the gauntlet section.   

I have laid that out:
What is wrong with this then?

His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance. 

How is that for a good solution?

Zoot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 517
  • Location: USA
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #962 on: January 17, 2017, 01:01:34 PM »
They're not living there rent free.

They're paying the mortgage!

Good point--my math is wrong on this one.

What you're giving them is the difference between the mortgage and the rental fee.  If your mortgage is $1200/month, and it would rent for $2000/month, you are giving them the difference ($800/month or $9600/year).

Still a generous gift which you can't afford to give. 

Not to mention the risk:  one missed payment and they will foreclose on YOUR house, and wreck YOUR credit.  They've already proven that they are not the best with managing money, so that's not far from the the realm of possibility.

Also, just a point to consider:  if this isn't your primary residence, property taxes on it will be higher than on your primary residence.  Be sure your PITI payments are enough to cover the higher amount.


Having said everything I've said, I'm with Malum Prohibitum and the others who are advising you to sell one or more of the properties.  You are putting yourself and your family at huge risk right now, and going into serious debt in the bargain.  Get out, while you still can.

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #963 on: January 17, 2017, 01:01:47 PM »
The beatles,

Sell two of the three properties.

Your problems will be solved at the closing table, or within 24 hours (however long it takes you to mail the payoffs to each creditor).

I no longer understand your self imposed problems.

You have all the assets needed to wipe out the debts and do it now.

Yes, it changes everything.

Think about what you're saying!!!

I cant just kick my wifes family to the curb.

Maybe youre OK with that, but I am not.

I'd prefer to stay married.

LOL!

Yeah, let me know how your marriage goes with the financial decisions you are currently making.

Give us a break. 

YOU could not afford the mortgage, but your wife's family can.  Ahem, right?

So there is nowhere else for a family that can afford a mortgage that you cannot afford to go and live?  Ahem, right?  LOL!

Sell it.

They'll live.

Your marriage will survive. 

Seriously, is your wife holding your marriage hostage to this situation which is burying you in risky, high interest debt and tax liens?  I find that hard to believe.  If that is really true, then you two will be divorced within 5 years anyway.

begood

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1013
  • Location: SE PA
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #964 on: January 17, 2017, 01:02:39 PM »
Your deadbeat in laws are scamming you just as they are scamming the tax man.  What you say to them is "Sorry. [That bit's a lie, but you are being polite here.]  I need to take the equity out of this house, as I can't afford not to have a return on it.  I'm putting the house on the market and you need to leave.  If you still want to rent from me, I'm willing to give notice to my tenants in [rental house] and you can move in there for a rent of $600 a month.  If not, good luck finding your new home".  Then you call up an estate agent and put it on the market, pronto.  If there are renters in the annex (who are presumably paying rent to your deadbeat in laws, which is part of the in laws' scam), you look at ways to get them out before August, including an offer of payment of a thousand or so if they vacate at closing.  That gives you $100k in equity which sorts all your problems.

You urgently need to talk to an expert insurance agent about getting the rental insured.  It should be possible to get limited cover, eg for fire damage and occupier's liability but excluding water/storm damage.  That would mitigate the worst of the risk you are currently carrying.

His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion talk with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance. 

How is that for a good solution?

That's a good solution, ddmesser! Move the deadbeat rels to your month-to-month lease rental, and let them cover those costs. Before you do that, though, you're going to want to fix the roof and get the house insured. Because relatives who don't hesitate to walk away from "a couple hundred thousand" in back taxes will not hesitate for a minute to sue you if they stub their toes in that rental.

But then you can sell your $100K equity house and pay off everything you owe! Yay! And you don't have to move into a 1000 s.f. apartment! Double yay!

I still think that low value rental is an albatross that will need to be dealt with eventually, but this is something you can start working on today: get that roof fixed and get that house insured. And give both the month-to-month renters and your deadbeat rels notice that things are changing as of March 1. Or April 1. Or May 1. They're CHANGING, is what I'm saying.

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8930
  • Age: 2020
  • Location: Bay Area at heart living in the PNW
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #965 on: January 17, 2017, 01:03:59 PM »
He is giving them the gift of a place to live at the expense of his own financial well being and perhaps his ability to provide his kids (and his in-laws!) a place to live. Steep price.

LadyMuMu

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 220
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #966 on: January 17, 2017, 01:04:11 PM »
beatles, I've been holding my tongue on this for a while but since you brought up the state of your marriage yourself, I'll bite. You know financial disagreements and problems are the #1 cause of divorce, right? And just take a look through these forums to see the havoc that divorce plays in your overall financial well being. You have young children and you sound like a caring father. I assume you want to be in their lives. Even before today, I've been worried that if you don't right this financial ship of yours ASAP, you're going to have some serious marriage problems soon. There's just too much stress not to.

Then you posted about your wife's unhappiness/loneliness being addressed by retail therapy. Then you posted that your broke in-laws (and if they owe $100K to the IRS they are broke no matter what their cash flow) have ensconced themselves on top of $100K of equity in your third home.

You aren't just in financial trouble, man. You are heading for some serious marital troubles if you aren't careful. It is for this reason I highly recommend doing one of the rip-the-band-aid-off solutions suggested that include selling cars/property and going for a full financial/family obligation reset. If you are in agreement, it will cement you as a couple.

researcher1

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 466
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #967 on: January 17, 2017, 01:06:59 PM »
The beatles,

Sell two of the three properties.
Your problems will be solved at the closing table, or within 24 hours (however long it takes you to mail the payoffs to each creditor).
I no longer understand your self imposed problems.
You have all the assets needed to wipe out the debts and do it now.
Yes, it changes everything.

Think about what you're saying!!!
I cant just kick my wifes family to the curb.
Maybe youre OK with that, but I am not.
I'd prefer to stay married.

Where in that post did Malum say anything about "kicking your wife's family to the curb?"

Many poster have offered up several possibilities...
- Sell rental and current house, move into big house with in-laws
- Sell rental and current house, move into detached apartment of big house
- Sell rental and big house, have in-laws live with you in current house.

LittleWanderer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 492
  • Location: USA
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #968 on: January 17, 2017, 01:07:34 PM »
What is wrong with this then?

His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance. 

How is that for a good solution?

This, this, this!  You have two families to house and three houses to do it in.  Sell the $300K house, and use the profits to pay everything off.  What in the world are you waiting for?

Iplawyer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #969 on: January 17, 2017, 01:09:45 PM »
The beatles,

Sell two of the three properties.
Your problems will be solved at the closing table, or within 24 hours (however long it takes you to mail the payoffs to each creditor).
I no longer understand your self imposed problems.
You have all the assets needed to wipe out the debts and do it now.
Yes, it changes everything.

Think about what you're saying!!!
I cant just kick my wifes family to the curb.
Maybe youre OK with that, but I am not.
I'd prefer to stay married.

Where in that post did Malum say anything about "kicking your wife's family to the curb?"

Many poster have offered up several possibilities...
- Sell rental and current house, move into big house with in-laws
- Sell rental and current house, move into detached apartment of big house
- Sell rental and big house, have in-laws live with you in current house.

And here is another solution that only has him selling his car and big equity house while still housing wife's family in  a single family home:

His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance. 

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #970 on: January 17, 2017, 01:11:30 PM »
Beatles, with the two rentals, would it be accurate to say that you have a positive net worth?  If you could really quickly add up the assets vs liabilities with the 2nd rental included, I'd really appreciate seeing it. 
  He has said that they are like this:

(A) Worth $300k, mortgage for $200k, so $100K

and

(B)  He would net $35k from selling the other after his delinquent taxes and HELOC.

Yeah, basically $135k and removes his delinquent tax problem, $25k HELOC, $200K mortgage, and $135,000, that's 1,350 100 dollar bills, which is a stack of $100 bills almost 6 inches thick.

Then he can take that six inch thick brick and pay off everything but the mortgage on the house he is living in.  This includes paying off his car note, his furniture, his credit cards, his IRS tax bill, everything.

Six inches of paper.  Does that help you see it?

Iplawyer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #971 on: January 17, 2017, 01:14:10 PM »
beatles, I've been holding my tongue on this for a while but since you brought up the state of your marriage yourself, I'll bite. You know financial disagreements and problems are the #1 cause of divorce, right? And just take a look through these forums to see the havoc that divorce plays in your overall financial well being. You have young children and you sound like a caring father. I assume you want to be in their lives. Even before today, I've been worried that if you don't right this financial ship of yours ASAP, you're going to have some serious marriage problems soon. There's just too much stress not to.

Then you posted about your wife's unhappiness/loneliness being addressed by retail therapy. Then you posted that your broke in-laws (and if they owe $100K to the IRS they are broke no matter what their cash flow) have ensconced themselves on top of $100K of equity in your third home.

You aren't just in financial trouble, man. You are heading for some serious marital troubles if you aren't careful. It is for this reason I highly recommend doing one of the rip-the-band-aid-off solutions suggested that include selling cars/property and going for a full financial/family obligation reset. If you are in agreement, it will cement you as a couple.

The wife needs some outlets too.  Beatles - is her back incapable of getting in and out of a car to deliver pizza?  I'm assuming not.  Get her to work immediately for the time when you get home from work.  Then you watch the kids while she works. 

MayDay

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4957
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #972 on: January 17, 2017, 01:14:31 PM »
Suggestion:

No one else respond to this thread until Beatles either:

1. Meets with 3+ Realtors and gets their plan on how to sell the uninsured house ASAP, and posts their analysis of how much it will sell for, how to handle the roof, etc.

Or

2. * Posts how he is going to either borrow or cash flow to get a roof on the uninsured house himself in the next two weeks.

* I think 100% of us agree he should do 1, and that 2 is a collosally bad idea, but still better than continuing to let it be uninsured.

Really there is not point in further engagement without action on the uninsured house.

Laura33

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3508
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #973 on: January 17, 2017, 01:14:59 PM »
OK, I'm going to go a little tangential here.  From these various posts, it looks to me like you just and your wife don't have -- and maybe never have had -- people to teach you good money habits.  I'm sure your parents and in-laws are very good, well-meaning people.  But your parents never taught you to stand on your own feet, and have repeatedly helped you, even when it didn't make financial sense to do so (e.g., a $120K investment in a house worth $80-90K; bailing you out of debt with no firm plan/idea of how to avoid getting back in it).  And your in-laws are now relying on you to support their lifestyle and make your 5-figure tax debt look normal by comparison.  Everyone around you seems to spend money as though you are all entitled to whatever you want, when you want it.

So I applaud you for sticking through this, because you're trying to go from basically kindergarten-level training to a Ph.D in Advanced Mustachianism.  And that is hard.  And maybe it is asking too much all at once.  Because you can't fix your financial problems without a fundamental change in your worldview.  If you want all of these changes to stick, you have to really believe that you must spend less than you earn, that necessities come before wants, that debt is abhorrent, and that FI is better than "stuff" at 25% interest. 

For now, I would suggest a ton of reading.   Start with The Millionaire Next Door to see what "real" millionaires live like.  Read all of MMM -- the articles, the forum, etc -- and the many, many other frugality bloggers.  And question everything that you believe to be true, about success, about what money is for, about what you really need, etc.  You are your own biggest enemy right now -- your expectations about what life is supposed to be, what you're entitled to, what matters and what doesn't.  And then play with your options -- don't write off any options, down to and including selling off everything.  You're a finance guy, so do spreadsheets, do projections, do alterantive budgets, so you can see in black and white what each choice will cost you.

Now, you can't do all this learning/retraining and ignore everything else; your house and hair are both on fire, so you do need to continue making every effort to cut your spending and bills.  But that alone won't get you there as long as your brain and training keep telling you that $100K in equity is meaningless, or that there's no point if you only buy what you really need-need, or that it's ok to go without insurance or paying the IRS, etc. etc. etc.  You are young, and you have the assets and the income and the brainpower to turn this puppy around ASAP; it's just your mindset that is getting in the way.  Which, again, seems completely natural since no one ever taught you otherwise.  But you need to find yourself some better money role models and keep challenging all of those assumptions.  If you do that, you really can fix this.

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #974 on: January 17, 2017, 01:15:40 PM »
Where in that post did Malum say anything about "kicking your wife's family to the curb?"

Many poster have offered up several possibilities...
- Sell rental and current house, move into big house with in-laws
- Sell rental and current house, move into detached apartment of big house
- Sell rental and big house, have in-laws live with you in current house.

Even in this context, if he sells both rentals and offers them nowhere else to live, is that kicking them to the curb?  Keep in mind what he posted.  He moved because he could not afford the mortgage.  Now, he has not told us what it is, but it is more than his current mortgage.  His wife's family is paying this mortgage and all other costs of the property each month.

Now, think about that.

Is this some destitute family that is going to be homeless if he tells them, "Hey, guys, we knew this would not be forever.  Mrs. The beatles and I are going to be putting this home up for sale.  We just wanted to give you a heads up."

There are plenty of landlords in his area that will rent to these people for the cash they pay each month. 

There is absolutely no reason to think this is a choice between living in his house tying up his equity (and creating wear and tear) and being homeless.

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #975 on: January 17, 2017, 01:17:14 PM »
2. * Posts how he is going to either borrow or cash flow to get a roof on the uninsured house himself in the next two weeks.

* I think 100% of us agree he should do 1, and that 2 is a collosally bad idea, but still better than continuing to let it be uninsured.

Really there is not point in further engagement without action on the uninsured house.
  Why?  Let the new owners insure it and put a new roof on it after they buy it.

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #976 on: January 17, 2017, 01:19:18 PM »
When you give dismissive answers like this, it seems like you are not taking us seriously.  Remember, a case study starts off with a large list of a sorts of information.  We have analyzed that information and given feedback.  Now, as time goes on, your answers for how you are improving things should include more information.  Not just "we set up a budget," but "Wife and I set up a budget, here it is! [massive list of budget info]  We think it's good as-is, but tell us if you see anything we missed or forgot to cut!"

Paying off debt does take study time.  It is not the simple "write a check to CC #1 for $50;" it is changing your mindset toward money and spending.  Though you guys have made some good progress already, it has only been a few days since you posted the case study.  Learning to optimize and reduce your spending on all areas of your life is going to take a LONG time.  We want you to spend your spare time - when you are not working at your job, cooking with your wife, or playing with your kids - to be spent reading books on frugality and on investing.  We want you to get immersed in this non-consumer mindset.  It is REALLY HARD to change your habits and patterns of behavior in the long-term, so we are doing what we can to encourage that.  We want your mindset to change so that you don't backslide, buy something big, and in one day destroy the past month of progress toward freedom from your crushing debts.

I didn't realize people saw that as dismissive.

I can definitely post my budget.

Iplawyer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #977 on: January 17, 2017, 01:19:55 PM »
2. * Posts how he is going to either borrow or cash flow to get a roof on the uninsured house himself in the next two weeks.

* I think 100% of us agree he should do 1, and that 2 is a collosally bad idea, but still better than continuing to let it be uninsured.

Really there is not point in further engagement without action on the uninsured house.
  Why?  Let the new owners insure it and put a new roof on it after they buy it.

I keep saying this - but the proposed solution below would solve all of the Beatles purported issues nicely:
His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance.
Modify message

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #978 on: January 17, 2017, 01:21:19 PM »
I didn't realize people saw that as dismissive.

I can definitely post my budget.
  I am not trying to be rude, The beatles, but fully one third or more of your posts are dismissive of one thing or another that somebody suggests.  It has been that way since the first page.  Most of us just take it in stride because it is the way newcomers here always react.  "I can't sell the car.  I owe more than it is worth."  Dismissive.  But we're used to it, because it takes time to acclimate to new ways of thinking.

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #979 on: January 17, 2017, 01:22:17 PM »
2. * Posts how he is going to either borrow or cash flow to get a roof on the uninsured house himself in the next two weeks.

* I think 100% of us agree he should do 1, and that 2 is a collosally bad idea, but still better than continuing to let it be uninsured.

Really there is not point in further engagement without action on the uninsured house.
  Why?  Let the new owners insure it and put a new roof on it after they buy it.

I keep saying this - but the proposed solution below would solve all of the Beatles purported issues nicely:
His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance.
Modify message
He's not being dismissive of you, ddmesser.  He is ignoring you.  There is a distinct difference.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 01:24:18 PM by Malum Prohibitum »

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Location: Seattle
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #980 on: January 17, 2017, 01:24:10 PM »



****
"the other rental"?   What?   You have two?

Yeah, but it's honestly not even worth getting into that whole backstory.

Now I'm thinking the T word. As explained time and time again, you can't get honest and useful help without the full picture.  Is this mommy and daddy's rental? What is it?

I'm refusing to respond to anyone who calls, or hints at calling me a troll.

I'm tired of it.

I have spent over a week on this forum, countless hours, PHOTOS, receipts, interest rates ... Eveything.

If people want to think i'm a troll - fine.

But I'm not going to respond to them.

Fair enough, but everyone in this thread is probably thinking it with you forgetting about other houses you own and to tell us details of your 3 years past due property tax. You don't find that suspicious when we ask you to lay it ALL out on the table and you don't?

sonjak

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #981 on: January 17, 2017, 01:24:21 PM »

I understand why people are saying you can't take a break - this is an emergency. Going back to the hair-on-fire metaphor, you can't be the fireman and decide in the midst of the fire - I'm going to just sit for ten minutes. Because the fire will get worse. I get that. But also - I get that you will need some down time. Even firemen battling raging wildfires take shifts.



Yes, firemen need to take breaks. But he is not a metaphorical fireman.....he's the person on fire. If you were literally on fire, would you sit down and take a ten minute break??
Jokes aside, ok he's not really on fire.....but the MMM community, at least me, would like to have him act as if he was. I want to hear screaming(oh gawd oh gawd OH GAWD!!!!!!!), running around in circles, swatting at himself maniacally, third degree burns on 90% of his body kind of behavior.
But, I am not getting that vibe. What I hear is, "Soooooooo, I have this SITUATION. It kind of sux. There are ways to get out of it.....mainly my parents money. I don't really want to go that route, cuz, well, I am thirty years old. You guys(MMM) seem to have your act together. Can I pick your brain for ideas?" Of course we oblige. "Ummmmmmm, I don't wanna do most of those things and even if I did, I want it to take less than nine months to reach my goal." After many face punches, "You guys are wrong, overreacting, getting up in my grill, implying that I'm mentally retarded." We rebuttal with our own arguments. "No, I'm right cuz of blah blah blah." No, you are wrong cuz of one, two, three, etc. "I've got it totally under control after one whole week!! Phew!!! The last few days have been INSANE. I think I have earned the right to spend some unwind time on my new blog/startup. Hun?, do we have any more of those tasty Skinny Cows left in the house? Oh, and bring me a soda too."
This is definitely the TLDR version of this thread.  :)

Iplawyer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #982 on: January 17, 2017, 01:24:57 PM »
2. * Posts how he is going to either borrow or cash flow to get a roof on the uninsured house himself in the next two weeks.

* I think 100% of us agree he should do 1, and that 2 is a collosally bad idea, but still better than continuing to let it be uninsured.

Really there is not point in further engagement without action on the uninsured house.
  Why?  Let the new owners insure it and put a new roof on it after they buy it.

I keep saying this - but the proposed solution below would solve all of the Beatles purported issues nicely:
His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance.
Modify message
He's not being dismissive of you, ddmesser.  He is ignoring you.  There is a distinct difference.

Beatles - why are you ignoring me and the very obvious solution to all of your problems?

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Location: Seattle
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #983 on: January 17, 2017, 01:25:17 PM »
There's a new twist every day!

Anyone want to take a guess at the next one?
$5 on another $100k debt somewhere that beatles intentionally didn't mention. Because, you know, it's not consequential and "there is NOTHING he can do about it. It's an impossible situation. Why bring up something you cant change?"

For fucks sake...

The other rental is a home we owned in the past.

I actually mentioned it in this very thread, several pages ago, but left out the part that we still own it.

It's worth about $300k, and with mortgage/heloc included we owe about $200k.

It is a 2,500 sq foot house with a 1,000 sq foot apartment that is detached from the primary home, but shares a driveway.

The monthly payment was simply too much which is why we moved out.

We were going to sell the property but then my wifes family needed a place to live so a deal was worked out where they could live and just assume the bills for that property.

So we pay NOTHING over there.

It's all on them.

That's why it doesn't matter and it wasn't worth bringing up.

Fuck.

If you have 100k in equity you can tap into, it DOES matter!

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #984 on: January 17, 2017, 01:26:50 PM »


What is wrong with this then?

His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance. 

How is that for a good solution?

I think that is actually a very fair solution.

I hope you can understand that even though its fair, her family is not going to see it that way.

They're going to see it as an insult.

Us downgrading them from a 300k house with granite countertops, marble bathrooms and heated floors to a $75k rental.

I get how that sounds.

I get how ALL this sounds.

I feel like posters are mad at me because they wonder how I could be so stupid.

But i'm not stupid.

It's just a very difficult situation when its not even your family.

This is the type of situation that could tear a family apart.


ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3053
  • Location: Emmaus, PA
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #985 on: January 17, 2017, 01:30:04 PM »
You need to have a serious conversation with your wife about how her family is taking advantage of her, and you by extension.

An after the kids are asleep kind of talk.

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Location: Seattle
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #986 on: January 17, 2017, 01:30:38 PM »


What is wrong with this then?

His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance. 

How is that for a good solution?

I think that is actually a very fair solution.

I hope you can understand that even though its fair, her family is not going to see it that way.

They're going to see it as an insult.

Us downgrading them from a 300k house with granite countertops, marble bathrooms and heated floors to a $75k rental.

I get how that sounds.

I get how ALL this sounds.

I feel like posters are mad at me because they wonder how I could be so stupid.

But i'm not stupid.

It's just a very difficult situation when its not even your family.

This is the type of situation that could tear a family apart.

You're going to be homeless soon if you don't do something. Packing your lunch every day isn't going to save you from financial disaster. You need to do something MORE.

Iplawyer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #987 on: January 17, 2017, 01:31:21 PM »


What is wrong with this then?

His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance. 

How is that for a good solution?

I think that is actually a very fair solution.

I hope you can understand that even though its fair, her family is not going to see it that way.

They're going to see it as an insult.

Us downgrading them from a 300k house with granite countertops, marble bathrooms and heated floors to a $75k rental.

I get how that sounds.

I get how ALL this sounds.

I feel like posters are mad at me because they wonder how I could be so stupid.

But i'm not stupid.

It's just a very difficult situation when its not even your family.

This is the type of situation that could tear a family apart.

No - it isn't.  If I asked somebody in my family to do this - they'd do it and be happy I was going to be able to come out sleeping at night.  If that house was good enough for you and your wife to live in - it is good enough for her family to live in. And if they want granite counter tops and heated floors - then they can go find those or install them at the rental at their costs. But you and your wife cannot afford to let them stay in your high end home anymore.  You are a second away from losing everything including the house they are living in.  It just takes one small incident at that uninsured rental for things to go sideways for you. 

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8930
  • Age: 2020
  • Location: Bay Area at heart living in the PNW
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #988 on: January 17, 2017, 01:32:16 PM »
Is your wife reading this thread? How about bringing that suggestion to her and having a heart-to-heart with her about the mess you are in, the several proposed solutions this thread has given you, and together choosing which one will work best for you? She needs to be honest with you and herself (and her family to some extent) how much this desire to keep her financially irresponsible parents living in absolute luxury is crippling your own financial situation and the security of your family. I'd be that most of us don't live in big houses with granite counter tops and heated floors and we (mostly) have large net worths or are well on our way to having it. As they used to say in the 90s, "reality bites". That is just how the situation is and you can't protect your in-laws from reality indefinitely because your boat is *thisclose* to sinking entirely and bringing everyone down with it, in-laws included.

You are a kind and generous person and reasonable people will see this if you lay the facts out. Offering to continue housing them is still generous. It is balancing the needs of your in-laws to mooch off of you due to their own poor decision making with your need to take care of your kids who are about to get put out on the street. Strike a balance.

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #989 on: January 17, 2017, 01:33:23 PM »
They're not living there rent free.

They're paying the mortgage!

Good point--my math is wrong on this one.

What you're giving them is the difference between the mortgage and the rental fee.  If your mortgage is $1200/month, and it would rent for $2000/month, you are giving them the difference ($800/month or $9600/year).

Still a generous gift which you can't afford to give. 

Not to mention the risk:  one missed payment and they will foreclose on YOUR house, and wreck YOUR credit.  They've already proven that they are not the best with managing money, so that's not far from the the realm of possibility.

Also, just a point to consider:  if this isn't your primary residence, property taxes on it will be higher than on your primary residence.  Be sure your PITI payments are enough to cover the higher amount.


Having said everything I've said, I'm with Malum Prohibitum and the others who are advising you to sell one or more of the properties.  You are putting yourself and your family at huge risk right now, and going into serious debt in the bargain.  Get out, while you still can.

This is accurate.

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #990 on: January 17, 2017, 01:33:32 PM »
They're going to see it as an insult.

Us downgrading them from a 300k house with granite countertops, marble bathrooms and heated floors to a $75k rental.
  So, you owe them a place with granite countertops and marble bathrooms and heated floors for how long, exactly?

For life?

If the answer is no, then you need to grow a pair.

They need to know nothing more than that you have run into some financial difficulty, and you need to sell the house.  You are giving them as much notice as you can possibly give them.

If they get an attitude, you can always file for eviction right away instead of waiting.

Gratitude is what you hoped for, I know, but look what you got instead.  Resentment.

It is time to grow up and handle your affairs.

You can't let your in-laws' resentment send your house of cards crashing down.

This was the same issue with your smaller rental house.  You do not want to sell it because you do not want to explain anything to your parents.  Well, stop getting yourself into the co-dependent entangling financial webs with family members, and you won't have any more of this uncomfortable unpleasantness.  But for now, you have to take care of yourself and your family.   Tell your wife that she and the kids come first, not these other family members.  Ask her if financial stability is important to her?  She'll understand.  Women hate the thought of being financially unstable.

And for what it's worth, I think the suggestion to move them into the smaller rental is a terrible one.  It is yet one more entangling financial web with co-dependent family members.  It is time to put a stop to that nonsense.

Sell both houses.

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #991 on: January 17, 2017, 01:35:28 PM »
2. * Posts how he is going to either borrow or cash flow to get a roof on the uninsured house himself in the next two weeks.

* I think 100% of us agree he should do 1, and that 2 is a collosally bad idea, but still better than continuing to let it be uninsured.

Really there is not point in further engagement without action on the uninsured house.
  Why?  Let the new owners insure it and put a new roof on it after they buy it.

I keep saying this - but the proposed solution below would solve all of the Beatles purported issues nicely:
His bad roof rental property has month to month renters.  They need to go.  Sell the car with equity.You can make it with one car until the big equity house sells.   Use the money to fix the roof and insure the small rental.  The renters are month to month so they can go.  Offer the wife's family the option of renting the small rental at market rate or finding housing on their own.  Sell the big equity house (most of the time you can even sell it with a tenant in the apartment).  Pay off ALL debt to everyone.  Put remainder in emergency fund.  Then you avoid the awkward discussion with your parents and your wife's family is housed.  Then your rental income improves because all of it except for taxes and insurance is money you can invest. But you must sell the car now to get the money to get the roof fixed immediately so you can get insurance.
Modify message
He's not being dismissive of you, ddmesser.  He is ignoring you.  There is a distinct difference.

Why don't you just leave the thread?

You're being the opposite of helpful here.

I'm not ignoring anyone.

There is 1 of me and hundreds of you.

By the time I refresh the page there is 10 responses to my 1 post.

Its hard to answer them all!!!!!!!!!!!

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #992 on: January 17, 2017, 01:36:50 PM »
Why don't you just leave the thread?

You're being the opposite of helpful here.
  I beg to differ.  Read my reply #1000, above.  If you still feel the same way, then I will be happy to leave your thread alone, as you wish.

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #993 on: January 17, 2017, 01:39:51 PM »
Is your wife reading this thread? How about bringing that suggestion to her and having a heart-to-heart with her about the mess you are in, the several proposed solutions this thread has given you, and together choosing which one will work best for you? She needs to be honest with you and herself (and her family to some extent) how much this desire to keep her financially irresponsible parents living in absolute luxury is crippling your own financial situation and the security of your family. I'd be that most of us don't live in big houses with granite counter tops and heated floors and we (mostly) have large net worths or are well on our way to having it. As they used to say in the 90s, "reality bites". That is just how the situation is and you can't protect your in-laws from reality indefinitely because your boat is *thisclose* to sinking entirely and bringing everyone down with it, in-laws included.

You are a kind and generous person and reasonable people will see this if you lay the facts out. Offering to continue housing them is still generous. It is balancing the needs of your in-laws to mooch off of you due to their own poor decision making with your need to take care of your kids who are about to get put out on the street. Strike a balance.

My wife is very upset with this thread at this point.

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #994 on: January 17, 2017, 01:41:00 PM »
Can we just ignore the 2nd house?

Go back to focusing on rental 1.

UKMustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 176
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #995 on: January 17, 2017, 01:42:47 PM »
My wife is very upset with this thread at this point.

Will she be more or less upset when you and your children are homeless?


*Added after reading this back to myself*
This comment is an extreme scenario, but I meant it to be. 

You're living on a knife edge financially and even a small loss of balance could be catastrophic, I really hope your wife can see this so that there isn't a follow on post in 6 or 12 months time when they come to repossess your house.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 01:49:28 PM by UKMustache »

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8930
  • Age: 2020
  • Location: Bay Area at heart living in the PNW
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #996 on: January 17, 2017, 01:44:08 PM »
Quote
My wife is very upset with this thread at this point.

Yeah, I can understand that. I probably would be as well in her shoes. This is a TON to digest and we're proposing a LOT of changes. It takes time to assimilate, process your emotions, and give a chance for your brain to take back over. That is okay, let that happen.

But don't avoid the topic. You are in serious, serious trouble but you also, happily, have several relatively easy solutions to completely get you out of this massive volcano/hurricane/ticking time bomb so that you can then spend your mental energy learning new ways to cut down your spending.

Again, I do care and I think many others here do as well. You can do this. You can do this. You can do this.

Malum Prohibitum

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #997 on: January 17, 2017, 01:44:22 PM »
Can we just ignore the 2nd house?

Go back to focusing on rental 1.
  We can if you wish, but there will be no further point in anybody giving advice, then.  That's like asking if we could ignore the Van Gogh hanging above the fireplace, or the yacht your wife just purchased, or the large commercial building you own in Manhattan.

You are asking the mustachians to ignore the key to solving your financial problems so fast it would make your head spin.

I am not sure what more there would be to say.

Hey, you can cut out cable, maybe save 50 bucks a month, so your inlaws could keep over a hundred grand of equity locked up and cost you over ten grand a year in rent and how much in interest payments for the property tax and IRS debt and credit cards and . . .  well, you get the point.

OurTown

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #998 on: January 17, 2017, 01:45:19 PM »
I see 21 pages of very good, actionable, advice here.  Tone of voice is not the problem.  The posters here did not create your problems.  They are trying to help. 

Iplawyer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #999 on: January 17, 2017, 01:45:27 PM »
Why don't you just leave the thread?

You're being the opposite of helpful here.
  I beg to differ.  Read my reply #1000, above.  If you still feel the same way, then I will be happy to leave your thread alone, as you wish.

Malum - I think Beatles has some emotional baggage he's trying to work with here.  Sometimes that is hard.  That is why I offered what I did.  He's reluctant to let go of the bad roof rental because his parents have invested in it.  He's reluctant to kick his in-laws to the curb.  Some of us would have no problem with either of these.  The solution I proposed is a big - boy solution.  He's got to sit down with his wife and come to terms with the situation - including about her parents.  He's got to explain to his parents why his in-laws are moving into the rental house.  They have to to tell the in-laws what their options are.

These are hard steps - but they would ultimately get the Beatles on the road to FI - even with the in-laws renting the small house.  And maybe the small house will eventually be a good investment - but the solution I proposed at least makes it revenue positive for the Beatles.

But Beatles -you've got to do this.  You are out of options.  Your hair is not fire, the soles of your shoes are just about melted through.  Sit down with your wife now and find a way to solve this that doesn't require your in-laws living in a house with the $100K of equity you need to get out of debt and start working towards FI.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!