Author Topic: Teacher in need of a lesson  (Read 5149 times)

ctfinance

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Teacher in need of a lesson
« on: February 10, 2022, 11:25:26 AM »
Hello fellow mustacians, In the past 12 months I have become obsessed with personal finance. Diving into FIRE reddits, choose FI podcasts and thankfully stumbled upon MMM. Here is my current breakdown to the best of my ability. Any comments suggestiona are appreciated.
 
Life Situation:
28 & 29 to be married in May. 0 Dependents living in a HCOL area in Chicagoland. Since we are planning the fire journey together I will post our combined salaries and expenses. I am not confident we can become FI any time soon but I want to do what we can to be as smart as possible.
 
Gross Salary/Wages: 135K (Me: 80K & Spouse: 55K)
 
Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions 401k, HSA, FSA, IRA, insurance, etc. - whatever you have
 
Me:
403b (AXA): $8975.18 
403b (Fidelity): $11,510 
 457b $11,637.13   
Roth IRA (Mass Mutual): $ 23.203
Spouse:
Roth IRA (Vanguard): 16,000

403b (0 but maxing it out for the 2022-2023 year starting in March.) Finally got her to invest her large nest egg! 110K saved since she was a child.




 
Other Ordinary Income:
Tutoring business account: 2,347.61 (We were making about $300-400 a month during the covid year but once school started again we stopped tutoring as much and currently do not have any clients.
 
Rental Income, Actual Expenses, and Depreciation: If these are significant for you
College rental: Rental income:
Gross rent: 1500
Vacancy loss: $75 (not really an issue with our college rental.)
Expenses: Insurance, Taxes, Lawn care, cap ex = 497 (self managed)
Mortgage P&I= 402  ( 30 year 4.2%)
Cashflow= 526 monthly / 6,312 yearly
 
Adjusted Gross Income: This should equal the additions and subtractions above.
97,512 combined after all taxes. This is our take home pay. We also have 8.4 % of our salaries going into a teacher pension.
 
Taxes: Federal, state/local, and FICA.  These should be consistent with your AGI and Life Situation.  For non-U.S. posters, we’ll have to take your word for these.
 
I am just basing this off of my paycheck. I think I need to figure out how to make this more accurate.
State tax: 3,645.12 annually
Federal: 11,271.6
Property tax: 4,800 annually
 
Current  Dual Monthly Expenses:
Gas $ 178.00
Food $ 400.00
Going out (variable expense but this is our monthly cap) Probably hit this 5-6 months of the year. $ 275.00
Gym $ 70.00
miscellaneous $ 150.00
Internet $ 64.00
Utilities (water 75.59, gas 48.64, garbage 34.92, electric 113.17) $ 272.31
Mortgage 240,000 purchase price. 15 year mortgage at 2.25%. 188,000 left on mortgage   $ 1,668.43
Roth IRA (both maxxed) /403b &457b  $ 2,375.00
Life insurance (whole)  / disability  $ 245.00
X box membership / netflix / flo  $ 31.67
Home/auto/ ring insurance  $ 95.47
Spouse  health and dental insurance  $ 100.00
Left over for cash saving 2,211





 
 
Assets: Amount & description - include current asset allocation plan if you have one
Me:
403b (AXA): $8975.18 
403b (Fidelity): $11,510 
 457b $11,637.13   
Roth IRA (Mass Mutual): $ 23.203

Spouse:
Roth IRA (Vanguard): 16,000
403b (0 but maxing it out for the 2022-2023 year starting in March.) Finally got her to invest her large nest egg! 110K saved since she was a child.
Cars: 2013 toyota corolla (paid off)  2008 Honda accord (paid off)
Liquid cash assets (110K). Looking to add an attrition or move soon because we currently live in about a 1000 sqft home and will need some more space with a family.
 
1 rental property appraised at 109K with 78K left on the mortgage 4.5% interest 40 year.
 
Liabilities:
Just the personal mortgage (200,000 15 year 2.25% 188K left /  and rental mortgage 78K 4.5%  30 year 78k left)
 
Specific Question(s):
 
I am trying to max out my fire number as quickly as possible. I am looking for areas to cut expenses or any place to do better. We live in a HCOL area where you will not find anything over 1000sq ft for less than 250k. If we move 30-45 minutes south we can have more house at a similar price we are currently at but that will add alot to our commute and we will probably end up paying more. Also the longer commute would suck I am 7 minutes from work.
 
I bought a bike for $80 and plan to start riding to school once the winter is over. I feel like i'm at the point where I am frugal but unsure and not confident that I am making all of the best decisions. I do not have anyone else to talk to about this because all of my friends are broke and indebt, my family also is not the best with their own money and just plan on relying on pensions so they do not have much of a retirement nest egg.

JGS1980

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2022, 12:14:44 PM »
Who owns the College Rental with the 75K mortgage at 4.5%?

ctfinance

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2022, 12:59:46 PM »
It is under both of our names. Currently in the process of transferring ownership to our LLC.

former player

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2022, 01:14:37 PM »
As you are planning a family I would strongly suggest that you limit your commutes as much as possible: kids plus work will take up as much time as you can get and a commute as well would be horrible.

There is no need to move too soon: it will take time to get pregnant, gestate and get the baby to a stage when a second bedroom is required (current advice suggests having baby sleep in the same room as the parents for at least 6 months).

clarkfan1979

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2022, 01:43:10 PM »
Hello fellow mustacians, In the past 12 months I have become obsessed with personal finance. Diving into FIRE reddits, choose FI podcasts and thankfully stumbled upon MMM. Here is my current breakdown to the best of my ability. Any comments suggestiona are appreciated.
 
Life Situation:
28 & 29 to be married in May. 0 Dependents living in a HCOL area in Chicagoland. Since we are planning the fire journey together I will post our combined salaries and expenses. I am not confident we can become FI any time soon but I want to do what we can to be as smart as possible.
 
Gross Salary/Wages: 135K (Me: 80K & Spouse: 55K)
 
Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions 401k, HSA, FSA, IRA, insurance, etc. - whatever you have
 
Me:
403b (AXA): $8975.18 
403b (Fidelity): $11,510 
 457b $11,637.13   
Roth IRA (Mass Mutual): $ 23.203
Spouse:
Roth IRA (Vanguard): 16,000

403b (0 but maxing it out for the 2022-2023 year starting in March.) Finally got her to invest her large nest egg! 110K saved since she was a child.




 
Other Ordinary Income:
Tutoring business account: 2,347.61 (We were making about $300-400 a month during the covid year but once school started again we stopped tutoring as much and currently do not have any clients.
 
Rental Income, Actual Expenses, and Depreciation: If these are significant for you
College rental: Rental income:
Gross rent: 1500
Vacancy loss: $75 (not really an issue with our college rental.)
Expenses: Insurance, Taxes, Lawn care, cap ex = 497 (self managed)
Mortgage P&I= 402  ( 30 year 4.2%)
Cashflow= 526 monthly / 6,312 yearly
 
Adjusted Gross Income: This should equal the additions and subtractions above.
97,512 combined after all taxes. This is our take home pay. We also have 8.4 % of our salaries going into a teacher pension.
 
Taxes: Federal, state/local, and FICA.  These should be consistent with your AGI and Life Situation.  For non-U.S. posters, we’ll have to take your word for these.
 
I am just basing this off of my paycheck. I think I need to figure out how to make this more accurate.
State tax: 3,645.12 annually
Federal: 11,271.6
Property tax: 4,800 annually
 
Current  Dual Monthly Expenses:
Gas $ 178.00
Food $ 400.00
Going out (variable expense but this is our monthly cap) Probably hit this 5-6 months of the year. $ 275.00
Gym $ 70.00
miscellaneous $ 150.00
Internet $ 64.00
Utilities (water 75.59, gas 48.64, garbage 34.92, electric 113.17) $ 272.31
Mortgage 240,000 purchase price. 15 year mortgage at 2.25%. 188,000 left on mortgage   $ 1,668.43
Roth IRA (both maxxed) /403b &457b  $ 2,375.00
Life insurance (whole)  / disability  $ 245.00
X box membership / netflix / flo  $ 31.67
Home/auto/ ring insurance  $ 95.47
Spouse  health and dental insurance  $ 100.00
Left over for cash saving 2,211





 
 
Assets: Amount & description - include current asset allocation plan if you have one
Me:
403b (AXA): $8975.18 
403b (Fidelity): $11,510 
 457b $11,637.13   
Roth IRA (Mass Mutual): $ 23.203

Spouse:
Roth IRA (Vanguard): 16,000
403b (0 but maxing it out for the 2022-2023 year starting in March.) Finally got her to invest her large nest egg! 110K saved since she was a child.
Cars: 2013 toyota corolla (paid off)  2008 Honda accord (paid off)
Liquid cash assets (110K). Looking to add an attrition or move soon because we currently live in about a 1000 sqft home and will need some more space with a family.
 
1 rental property appraised at 109K with 78K left on the mortgage 4.5% interest 40 year.
 
Liabilities:
Just the personal mortgage (200,000 15 year 2.25% 188K left /  and rental mortgage 78K 4.5%  30 year 78k left)
 
Specific Question(s):
 
I am trying to max out my fire number as quickly as possible. I am looking for areas to cut expenses or any place to do better. We live in a HCOL area where you will not find anything over 1000sq ft for less than 250k. If we move 30-45 minutes south we can have more house at a similar price we are currently at but that will add alot to our commute and we will probably end up paying more. Also the longer commute would suck I am 7 minutes from work.
 
I bought a bike for $80 and plan to start riding to school once the winter is over. I feel like i'm at the point where I am frugal but unsure and not confident that I am making all of the best decisions. I do not have anyone else to talk to about this because all of my friends are broke and indebt, my family also is not the best with their own money and just plan on relying on pensions so they do not have much of a retirement nest egg.

I teach community college and have 3 rentals (4 doors). Two of them have been historically college rentals.

I feel like rental real estate is a good side hustle for teachers. You will have time over the summer to do repairs and upgrades. As you gain more confidence, I would look to expand your rental real estate portfolio with more college rentals near your current rental. Once you get to 4-5, you will probably want to hire a property manager.

I'm originally from Chicagoland. Do not let the taxes beat you.

HCOL is a term that is somewhat subjective. I think the median home price for the nation is around 375K with a median size of 2200 sq. ft. I'm guessing the median price for a 1,000 sq. ft. house is around 300K. If you can get a 1,000 sq. ft. single family home for 275K, I think that would be slightly under the median and I wouldn't consider it to be HCOL.

I used to live on Kauai. A 1,000 sq. ft. house starts around 800K to 1.2 million for a fixer. I consider that to be HCOL. However, I understand that it's subjective.

MDM

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2022, 03:39:11 PM »
ctfinance, welcome to the forum.

You might find the case study spreadsheet in Excel useful for collecting your information and projecting 2022 taxes under your upcoming MFJ status (and congratulations and best wishes on that!).  Nothing like a hot date night reviewing finances together. ;)

Below is a quick pass, using the numbers in your OP as best I could determine.  No doubt I misinterpreted some things, so it would be good if you start from scratch with a fresh copy and use correct numbers, but this may be a useful example.  Questions welcome.
 

Paycheck frequency:AnnualAnnual
Paycheck ItemsEarner #1Earner #2Annual
Gross Salary/Wages
$80,000$55,000$135,000
401(k) / 403(b) / TSP / etc.$1,000$0$1,000
Traditional 457 plans   $375$0$375
Pre-tax pension contribution$6,720$4,620$11,340
W-2 Box 1
$71,905$50,380$122,285
Non-paycheck incomeAnnualAnnualAnnual
Rental income$18,000$18,000
Rental real expenses$9,564$9,564
Rental depreciation expense$3,636$3,636
Rental taxable income$4,800$4,800
1040 Total Income
$76,705$50,380$127,085
1040 AGI
$127,085
Other Specific Investment TypesAnnualAnnualAnnual
Roth IRA$6,000$6,000$12,000
Rental mortgage principal payments$1,224$1,224
Payroll TaxesAnnualAnnualAnnual
Social Security$4,960$3,410$8,370
Medicare$1,160$798$1,958
Income Taxes
Federal tax$13,4952022, MFJ, std.$13,495
State+local tax$6,061IL state calc'n$6,061
Total income taxes$29,883$29,883
Monthly
Income before other expenses$7,301$87,614
Monthly Average ExpensesComments
Mortgage$1,310Input to Item. Ded.$15,722
Property Tax$400Input to Item. Ded.$4,800
Home/Rent Insurance$95$1,146
Dental Insurance  (if not paid pre-tax)$100Input to Item. Ded.$1,200
Dining (Lunch/Dinner/Etc.)$275$3,300
Electricity$113$1,358
Entertainment$32$380
Fuel/Public Transport$178$2,136
Gas/Oil for heating$49$584
Groceries$400$4,800
Internet$64$768
Life Insurance$245$2,940
Miscellaneous$150$1,800
Recycling/Trash$35$419
Sports/Recreation$70$840
Water/Sewer$76$907
Non-mortgage total
$2,281$27,378
Total Expense
$3,592$43,100
Total to invest$3,710$44,514
Summary:
"Gross" income$11,953$143,436
Income taxes$2,490$29,883
After-tax income$9,463$113,553
IRA+401k/403b/TSP/457$615$500$13,375
Rental equity$102$1,224
Living expenses$3,592$43,100
Pension contributions$945$11,340
After-tax investable$3,710$44,514
Filing Status21=S, 2=MFJ, 3=HOH
Adult #1Adult #2
Age3535
AGI$127,085
Std. Deduct.$25,900
Act. Deduct.$25,900
Taxable$101,185
1040 Tax$13,495
Tax after n-r credit$13,495
Net Tax$13,495
Mtg. Int. (approx.)$4,1881000000
State tax$6,061IL
Prop tax$4,800
Item. Deduct.$14,188
VersionV22.01

Loans:Orig. Prin.Orig. LengthCurr. Prin.Yrs leftRate
Mortgage$200,00015$188,00013.92.25%

JGS1980

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2022, 03:44:14 PM »
Specific Question(s):
 
I am trying to max out my fire number as quickly as possible. I am looking for areas to cut expenses or any place to do better. We live in a HCOL area where you will not find anything over 1000sq ft for less than 250k. If we move 30-45 minutes south we can have more house at a similar price we are currently at but that will add alot to our commute and we will probably end up paying more. Also the longer commute would suck I am 7 minutes from work.
 
I bought a bike for $80 and plan to start riding to school once the winter is over. I feel like i'm at the point where I am frugal but unsure and not confident that I am making all of the best decisions. I do not have anyone else to talk to about this because all of my friends are broke and indebt, my family also is not the best with their own money and just plan on relying on pensions so they do not have much of a retirement nest egg.

Unless you would starve otherwise, never trade commute for more space. It's a life and soul sucking decision.

I also agree that you should delay buying a larger space until you actually need it. Some couples take 1-2 years to become pregnant. Do you really want to cover the carrying costs of a home you don't need for 1-3 years, not to mention the commute?

When you get married, you and your spouse will be in the 22% tax bracket. Strongly advise that you max out your 403B's for you and your spouse to achieve that instant 22% tax savings return. If cash flow is tight while doing this, you could always trim down that large cash reserve you guys are holding.

Lots of folks FIRE pursuing the Real Estate strategy purchasing and leveraging 1 property per year until you reach your desired number of doors. This may be in your future if you desire it.

Another option if you are handy is to sequentially house hack every 2 years [hard if you have young children]. Basically buy a house that needs lots of work but has good bones in a great neighborhood and fix it up over a couple years, followed by selling. If gains are less than 500K, you pay ZERO taxes. Not a bad deal.

Finally, if you don't want to only do real estate, its all about living below your means and investing that 2.2K difference in a broad based index fund monthly. It's amazing how fast it grows. Join one of the "Race to 250 K or 500K threads". Very motivating and keeps you focused.

Hope this helps, and I think you are doing great.

JGS

PS -when I was 28/29, I was 250+K in the hole. You are way ahead, ha!
PPS -If you are househacking, you'll be working out daily AND will be too exhausted for video games, so there goes your gym and xbox subscriptions! Just saved you 1220/year.

Also -> listen to whatever MDM tells you.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2022, 03:25:15 PM by JGS1980 »

Freedomin5

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2022, 03:56:31 PM »
If you haven’t read Andrew Hallam’s Millionaire Teacher yet, you may find the ideas in there helpful. He and his wife were teachers who FIRE’d on teacher salaries.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2022, 10:59:55 AM »
I think moderator arebelspy and his wife were teachers who FIRE'd young.

ZaraThustra

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2022, 01:59:15 PM »
It is under both of our names. Currently in the process of transferring ownership to our LLC.

That has mortgage consequences, of course? Will you have to refi into a commercial loan then, as an LLC?

Don't know your state's laws, but in mine, an LLC can only be represented by an attorney in most types of legal actions. Harsh surprise when trying to evict a tenant. $300-$400 an hour costs. Maybe no such concern where you are.

All I'm communicating is that there are potential consequences for LLC formation when you've an existing mortgage. And, you're already insured against liability risks, presumably, as required by most mortgages.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2022, 12:32:47 PM »
@ctfinance By being here and being aware of your spending, you are already starting to make good choices.  The trick is to maintain self-discipline and to continue to make those good choices.

Broadly, I would suggest that you do the following:
1) increase your pre-tax retirement contributions enough so that after your deductions (either standard or itemized), your taxable income is within the 12% tax bracket (<$81k).  For example, if your income is $127k/year, increase your pre-tax contributions to $21k. *
2) if you have cashflow still available, max out Roth IRAs next.
3) if you still have cashflow available, max out Roth 401k/403b/457/etc.
4) if you still have cashflow available, invest in a taxable brokerage account

In terms of spending, nothing seems super egregious, except for that whole life insurance.  The purpose of life insurance is to make sure your family will be ok if you die.  That's it.  If there are no kids, and your spouse can support themselves without you, there's no need for life insurance.  Also, anything beyond term life insurance isn't worth it.  In our family, DW is a SAHM, who wouldn't be able to go back to work, so we have a $750k policy on me which costs us about $65/mo.  That, plus our other savings/investments, would be enough to support DW and the kids if something happened to me.

There's fat that could be trimmed in other areas, sure, but not IMO more than a couple hundred dollars per month total without starting to feel the pinch.  A penny saved is a penny earned, but your spending isn't a raging dumpster fire.

Others are right about the housing situation.  Don't be in a hurry to upsize your home.  There's no rush.

* Why not max out the 403b/401k/etc right away?  Because once you're in the 12% tax bracket, further pre-tax contributions avoid 12% tax today in order to maybe pay 10% tax in retirement.  You're only potentially saving 2%, and that's if 1) you stay in the 10% bracket in retirement, and 2) the politicians don't raise the tax rates.  If you contribute that excess to a Roth account instead, you're still about break-even, tax-wise (you pay 12% today in order to avoid paying 10% or 12% later).  However, having a substantial Roth balance not only enables you to build a Roth Conversion Pipeline, but also gives you much greater control in retirement over your taxable income.

luchorpan

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2022, 04:29:27 AM »
Others jumping in about rentals. As a fellow teacher I’ll ask: what’s the pension situation? When you want to FIRE will you be vested? How stable is the system? If not vested and/or not likely to pay out when you’re old, will you be able to pull out your contributions?

Re: moving for more space - a big advantage of teaching is it’s so mobile. There are schools in every community. If you want to move out to the suburbs, you can work out there too. It sucks to start over with new preps etc (I’m doing it this year) but a long commute would suck for longer than one year.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 04:49:32 AM by luchorpan »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2022, 08:38:54 AM »
Others jumping in about rentals. As a fellow teacher I’ll ask: what’s the pension situation? When you want to FIRE will you be vested? How stable is the system? If not vested and/or not likely to pay out when you’re old, will you be able to pull out your contributions?

Re: moving for more space - a big advantage of teaching is it’s so mobile. There are schools in every community. If you want to move out to the suburbs, you can work out there too. It sucks to start over with new preps etc (I’m doing it this year) but a long commute would suck for longer than one year.
It can be tricky, though--depending on the district where you teach, the pension may not vest for a number of years.  I have a friend in this situation--he would really like to find a position in another district, but he's 1.5 years away from being vested in his current one, where he's been teaching for 15+ years.  If he leaves early, he gets nothing.

luchorpan

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2022, 10:00:35 AM »
Others jumping in about rentals. As a fellow teacher I’ll ask: what’s the pension situation? When you want to FIRE will you be vested? How stable is the system? If not vested and/or not likely to pay out when you’re old, will you be able to pull out your contributions?

Re: moving for more space - a big advantage of teaching is it’s so mobile. There are schools in every community. If you want to move out to the suburbs, you can work out there too. It sucks to start over with new preps etc (I’m doing it this year) but a long commute would suck for longer than one year.
It can be tricky, though--depending on the district where you teach, the pension may not vest for a number of years.  I have a friend in this situation--he would really like to find a position in another district, but he's 1.5 years away from being vested in his current one, where he's been teaching for 15+ years.  If he leaves early, he gets nothing.


I often forget that some places have district-level pensions. My public school experience was all in a state that vests quickly (vests at 5 years, but not much, with a time-based payout formula) AND it’s a state pension system so moving within the state makes no difference in the pension. It’s definitely part of the decision either way.

crazy jane

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2022, 10:13:04 AM »
Recently retired teacher from the Chicago area. Please find out if you have the option to use something other than AXA for your 403b. Vanguard has lower fees. Ask your district business manager what other choices are available. AXA charges high fees.

ctfinance

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2022, 08:59:50 AM »
Thank you everyone. Based on your responses I have done the following the past few months.

1. Transferred all of my 403b/457b/Roth money into fidelity and am currently invested 70/30  FSKAX/FTIHX and got rid of the high AXA management fees.
2. Increased my 457b contribution to $530 a month
3. Closed on another rental property that will cashflow $621 a month (with both homes we will not cashflow 1,148 a month)
4. Wife has an interview today at a school 2 miles from out home. If she gets that it will be a 17k paybump which would be great.
5. Transferred rental properties into our LLC through the county. Mortgage companies say we need to let it vest for 12 months before we officially transfer it over on the lender end.


We are just continuing to chip away! Thank you.

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Re: Teacher in need of a lesson
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2022, 02:15:06 AM »
That all sounds very well organised to maximise your mustachian credentials, well done.  Good luck to Mrs ctfinance with the job interview.