Should we spend more to live in a walkable area with kids?

[drc2357]

My husband and I have been aggressively saving for early retirement, and are only 3-4 years from our goal.   However, my dream is to live in a walkable community a few miles away, where most of my friends live, and where our kids can walk to school, and live near friends, walk to the park, boys and girls club, etc.  However, to move there is going to double our taxes and mortgage.  It will extend time to retirement by 2-3 years.  We can't really wait to decide, because my oldest starts middle school next year, and is already struggling socially, and with making friends. We want to time the switch to coincide with the school transition.   We were hoping to wait out the pandemic and crazy market, but it's taking forever, and we don't really have much time left now. My husband doesn't want to move.  He likes the low cost/low maintenance housing that we have now, but I've always felt isolated here, and crave more of a community.   What would you recommend? My husband isn't planning to stop work completely anyways when we reach financial independence, and I'm planning to go back part time when my youngest starts school next year, so I feel like it wouldn't actually affect our finances that much.  But hate to derail the plan he's been working on so hard.

[Askel]

Be sure to factor in hidden costs.  Does moving to a more walkable community mean less driving? If so, include that in your calculations.  We used to live about 20 miles out with each of us doing a 40 mile round trip commute every work day. Moving much closer let us comfortably double our housing costs.  And it's not just commuting- we're now much closer to a lot more recreation and entertainment options as well.

And you can't really put a price on the strain of being isolated like that. Which has really got to suck for kids that can't just hop in the car and drive someplace.   

I think the growing interest in walkable communities will also make for a much safer long term investment as well. 

I totally get being Cheap Husband, but try not to be penny wise/pound foolish.   

[jermajay]

Also keep in mind benefits for the kids independence wise, as well as for you time wise. Living in a walkable community means they'll be able to go visit their friends, go the store or the movies, etc on their own, which saves time & money for you as well, not having to drive them. I grew up in a semi rural area and my parents had to drive me everywhere, which while they weren't bothered by the money aspect definitely put a strain on them mentally. I also had no idea how to do things by myself for a long time. I'd never bought anything from a store until I was 17 and still have trouble organising things by myself.

[Shane]

Agree with Askel. Be sure to factor in any hidden costs/savings. Living in a more walkable community, closer to friends, you will probably save money on transportation. OTOH, you may end up spending more on eating out, going to movies/shows, etc., because it'll be more convenient. Back when we lived 25 miles from town, we saved a lot, because it was too much of a pita to drive 50 miles, round trip, to do anything. Now that we live in town, we save all the money we used to spend on owning two 4WD vehicles, but we spend a lot more on spontaneously eating out, stopping at a local coffee shop, or going out to see a movie. FWIW, we LOVE our current, walkable neighborhood and would never go back. So, highly recommend moving if you can figure out how to make the financials work. Is there any chance you could, somehow, downsize your housing (or other expenses) to save money? For example, could you maybe get an apartment instead of a house, or a 2BR instead of a 3BR? If you could show your husband that you're willing to conserve in other areas, so as not to derail his FIRE plans, maybe he would be more willing to consider moving?

[Dee18]

I found paying the extra to live in a walkable community was worth it (in my case in a neighborhood of older homes near a town center)  but what gives me pause in suggesting a move is that your husband likes the "low maintenance" of the current home.  What would be the increased maintenance?  A large yard?  Wooden decks that would need regular maintenance?  A house that would need painting as opposed to a brick home?  Those all require a lot of time and effort, or expense and managing others to do the work.

[drc2357]

Addressing the low maintenance: We live in a brick ranch, very well built.  Almost all the houses in the area we're looking at are older wooden homes.   My husband is understandably not excited about the extra maintenance an older home requires. We would be downsizing our yard, so less maintenance there.

[ysette9]

This is a personal decision ultimately, so depends on what you value.

We have lived in a nicer place far away from everything and a crappy place close to everything. My quality of life immeasurably improved moving to the crappy place close to everything. Now our lives are very small: school is 1km to the north r and preschool 1km to the south. Life is delightful being able to “commute” by foot with the kids in tow. It is hard to put a price on that.

[jfer_rose]

I don't think any of us can tell you what to do in this case, because it's a marriage problem. You both have valid reasons for wanting what you want so you need to figure out a way to solve this issue that you can both live with.

To me, it seems like the advice from other posters could be framed as a way to see if you can find a win-win solution so that you can both get what you want. For example, I agree with other posters about the importance of making sure you are considering the true cost of each location, which does include transportation. Perhaps the walkable location could allow you to get rid of a vehicle? Also, what if you considered renting instead of owning (maybe while renting out the home you already own). It could be a good way to test the waters to see how you both like the location before making a big financial commitment. Someone else suggested considering a smaller home than you have now. I also know couples who have taken turns-- living in one person's preferred place for a certain number of years, than moving to the other's preferred place. These are just starter ideas, but the idea is to get creative with your thinking.

But if you can't find a win-win solution, then you have to find a way to come to an agreement about this. And there's no simple answer for that. For sure it involves open and honest communication, respect, and trustworthiness. Hopefully you both come at the challenge from a place of wanting each other to be happy.

I say all this as someone who prioritizes living in a walkable community so strongly, that it was probably my single most important factor when considering whether to date someone. Back in the day I even quit an online dating service because it wouldn't let me set a small enough radius for where potential matches must live. At the time, I lived car-free in a big city and was unwilling to date anyone whom I could not easily see via a walking, bicycling, or transit trip. I'm happy to say that eventually I found a partner who loves walkable communities as much as I do!

[PDXTabs]

I have strong opinions about walkable neighborhoods in part because I've lived in urban, rural, and suburban settings. I think that walkable neighborhoods are the bomb. But especially spending my adolescent years in the suburbs it was obvious to me that it sucked. But don't take my word for it:

“The more walkable an area is (as indexed by Walkscore.com), the more likely Americans whose parents were in the lowest income quintile are to have reached the highest income quintile by their 30s," the study says. "This relationship holds above and beyond factors previously used to explain upward mobility, factors such as income inequality and social capital, and is robust to various political, economic, and demographic controls; to alternate specifications of upward mobility and to potentially unspecified third variables.” - Rice: Living in walkable neighborhoods makes children richer when they grow up, new study finds

More points:
International journal of environmental research and public health: Getting to Know a Place: Built Environment Walkability and Children’s Spatial Representation of Their Home-School (h–s) Route
SSM - population health: Walkable neighborhoods and obesity
EDITed to add: City streets safer than suburban roads, study finds

To me as a parent this is all just obvious. Of course kids who can walk (or take the bus, or ride their bicycle) to the library on their own grow up to make more money and be less obese. Of course they are less likely to get killed in a stroad based automobile collision (because automobile collisions are the #1 killer of kids in this country).

[NorthernIkigai]

So you don't enjoy living where you are living now, and one of your children is struggling socially there? Seems like moving would be the obvious decision, even if it would cost some more money.

In a place where there are public parks and other outdoor places to play and hang out, an apartment/condo/whateveryoucallthemthings is a great choice for a family, if there are any available where you are wanting to move.

[Dicey]

I say all this as someone who prioritizes living in a walkable community so strongly, that it was probably my single most important factor when considering whether to date someone. Back in the day I even quit an online dating service because it wouldn't let me set a small enough radius for where potential matches must live. At the time, I lived car-free in a big city and was unwilling to date anyone whom I could not easily see via a walking, bicycling, or transit trip. I'm happy to say that eventually I found a partner who loves walkable communities as much as I do!

OMG, I remember this, too! I tried eHarmony a couple of times and they would NOT change it to a smaller radius, which pissed me off.

In a slight twist, when I did marry someone local (many years later, without the assistance of a dating service), we prioritized location to DH's work. For nine years, he walked to work, saving a metric crapton in commuting costs and time. We also have access to a wide array of Open Space and walking trails. It's not quite as walkable to town as we'd like, but it was a good balance. Now that he's retiring, we're looking at downsizing to something more walkable for everyday stuff. In the meantime, the more expensive house close to work has doubled in value and his 2002 truck has only 105K miles on it and still looks and runs great.

Thanks for the blast from the past, @jfer_rose!

[jfer_rose]

Wow @Dicey thanks for the reminder of how much I love this forum! When you sometimes feel like a weirdo out in the world, it's nice to know there are others with similar mindsets.

And yes, it absolutely was eHarmony that I quit over their location radius. (And I also met my significant other outside of online dating!)

[starbuck]

Sidewalks and walkability were first on my list when we were looking for a house. We moved to a very walkable area with our kids, and it really did change the way we live. Being social is as easy as walking (or scootering) over to a friends house, including sledding in the winter, and when someone is going to the playground down the street from us, they usually invite us since we live so close. Friends park at our house to visit town events like parades and concerts, and we walk down together and hang out before and/or after. We walk to the library once a week after school to pick up new books and play computer games and talk with the new children's librarian. We picnic in nearby parks, we go for walks to the local ice cream shop, I get to indulge in a second glass of wine when out with friends since I'm a short walk from home, I meet up with friends to go for a walk, trick or treating is SO MUCH FUN, the list goes on.

Walking places doesn't feel like a waste of time like driving does to me. We also go for after dinner walks and it's just such a nice way to end the day and reconnect with the kids or just enjoy the fresh air and movement. This is a ritual that I think gains importance as my kids get older. It's easier to talk and open up on a walk, even if it is with your annoying parents. :)