Author Topic: Reader Case Study - Single White Female with 2 Kids - TOTALLY BEHIND - need help  (Read 12194 times)

pugetsound78

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It's embarrassing to even write this stuff down but here goes:

Life Situation: Single, 2 kids 6 and 8 (50% responsible) Redmond/Seattle WA.  I'm 39 semi-recently divorced and starting over.

Gross Salary/Wages: 70,000/year

Investments: 11,000 in IRA with Vanguard VTSAX, 5,000 in another 401k from previous employment (can't rollover without losing 3k)

Other Ordinary Income: Work pays for insurance for me (not kids), cell phone and gas

Monthly Expenses
Rent - $1980 for a 2 bed apt. (it's insane here- includes water and sewer)
Internet - $35
Netflix - $10
Electric - $70
Car - $291 - 2010 Honda CRV owe $3,000 more total
Childcare - $700
Student loan - $178 (46,000 total - kill me)
Credit card - $100 ($3,000 total - kill me)
Gas - n/a employer pays
Phone - n/a employer pays
Kids ins - $40
kids sports  - $100?
Groceries - $250
household - $25
clothes/equipment/misc - $25-50
entertainment/misc. (mostly kids) - $50
Investments - contributing $200 with a $200 employer match to IRA

I live close to work and groceries, etc. (2 blocks-can walk everywhere) but don't pay for any gas anyway. I am obviously concerned about paying the debt off - emergency I know - but around here not sure how to pull off cheaper rent and cheaper childcare.  Feel like I need to work full time even with the costs of childcare. Feel stuck.  Divorce kinda messed up the credit situation and feel like it should be pretty easy to pay off the car and the card, but scared about the student loan and it just feels unmanageable.

I feel I'm decent at not buying things and being frugal about no cable, coupons, most inexpensive monthly payments (i.e. internet, etc.) but don't know what to do about rent and childcare. 

Also - I rarely go out or spend money on myself for entertainment and the like but feel bad keeping my kids out of sports and birthday parties so I def. pay for those.

And maybe I'm being too picky - but I can't really get a room mate (unless I'm sleeping with them - ;)) because I have a 2 bedroom and 2 kids and I have a one year lease.  Also roomie with kids just feels wrong.

I coach on the side so I don't have to pay for my gym membership.

Any ideas would be greatly greatly appreciated.  I feel stuck.

Lepetitange3

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The childcare is killing you.  Your kids are School aged...is this wrap around care?  More details please...there's always options with enough people here who live in your area to help cluebyou into a few. 

MDM

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If the inputs and calculations in the table below are reasonably descriptive of your situation, it appears you are in a decent position:
- you can pay off the CC bill this year, plus
- pay off the SL within 10 years, plus
- contribute ~$14K/yr to tax-deferred accounts.

If childcare goes away/down, so much the better.  Of course, if there's mistake in the inputs or calculations, ....

CategoryMonthly
Comments
Annual
Salary/Wages for earner #1$5,833$70,000
Traditional IRA$458At maximum$5,500
401(k) / 403(b) / TSP / etc.$700Room to increase?$8,400
Income subject to IRS tax$4,675$56,100
Federal Total Income$4,675$56,100
Federal tax$832017 rates, HOH,stand. ded., 3 exempt.$995
State/City tax$0Guess, using 0.00% * (AGI - Exempt'n)$0
Soc. Sec.$362Assumes 1 earner paying$4,340
Medicare$85$1,015
Total income taxes$529$6,350
Income before other expenses  $4,146$49,750
Monthly Average Expenses:
Rent$1,980$23,760
Child activities $100$1,200
Childcare$700Input to Child and Dependent Care credit$8,400
Electricity$70$840
Entertainment$60$720
Groceries$250$3,000
Household; Maintenance$25$300
Internet$35$420
Medical Insurance (if not paid pre-tax)$40Input to Itemized Deductions$480
Miscellaneous$50$600
Non-mortgage total$3,310$39,720
Loans:
Student Loan$488$5,855
Credit card$108$1,301
Total Expense$3,906$46,876
Total to invest$239$2,874
Summary:
"Gross" income$5,833$70,000
Income taxes$529$6,350
After-tax income$5,304$63,650
IRA+401k/403b/TSP/457$1,158$13,900
Living expenses$3,310$39,720
Non-mortgage loans$596$7,156
After-tax investable$239$2,874

Filing Status31=S, 2=MFJ, 3=HOH
# Exemptions3
# Children <172
# Children <132
# Children for EIC2
Adult #1
Age39
# of earners1
Total Income$56,100
Std. Deduct.$9,350
Act. Deduct.$9,350
Exemption$12,150
SL int. (approx.)$2,185
AGI$53,915
MAGI$61,600
Taxable$32,415
1040 Tax$4,195
Dep. Care credit$1,200
Tax after n-r credit$2,995
Child Tax Cred.$2,000
Net Tax$995
Monthly$83
Item. Deduct.$0
VersionV8.17

Loans:Orig. Prin.Orig. LengthCurr. Prin.Yrs leftRate
Student Loan$46,00010$46,000105.000%
Credit card$3,0003$3,000318.000%

Alf91

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That rent - ouch! Is moving an option - like to a different area that's less expensive?

I understand not wanting a roommate when you have kids...what about renting a duplex so you have a separate area but still splitting the rent?

Childcare swap? Someone watches your kids (I'm assuming before/after school?) and you watch theirs when they need it (ie when you're not working - maybe weekends or evenings). No money exchanged.
If they're in an after school program, see if a local highschool or grade 7/8 student would be cheaper to watch them? If another family also needs childcare at the same time, you could split the cost with those parents.

Other than rent/childcare, your expenses are pretty low already.

Are you getting child support?

ubermom4

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Just a thought -- another mustachian in a similar situation moved to a 1 bedroom apt. She put the kids in the bedroom and she sleeps in the living room. Long term this might be extremely tough but you might do this for a year or 2 until you have paid down a bunch of your debt.

pugetsound78

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The childcare is killing you.  Your kids are School aged...is this wrap around care?  More details please...there's always options with enough people here who live in your area to help cluebyou into a few.

Not sure if I am responding to the right place but I work from 8-5.  Kids school is from 9-3:25.  They get out of school at 1:05 on Wednesday. I have them 1/2 time.  So I pay before work and after work for 2-3 days depending on who's weekend it is and then 1-5 on wed.  UGH.

pugetsound78

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If the inputs and calculations in the table below are reasonably descriptive of your situation, it appears you are in a decent position:
- you can pay off the CC bill this year, plus
- pay off the SL within 10 years, plus
- contribute ~$14K/yr to tax-deferred accounts.

If childcare goes away/down, so much the better.  Of course, if there's mistake in the inputs or calculations, ....

CategoryMonthly
Comments
Annual
Salary/Wages for earner #1$5,833$70,000
Traditional IRA$458At maximum$5,500
401(k) / 403(b) / TSP / etc.$700Room to increase?$8,400
Income subject to IRS tax$4,675$56,100
Federal Total Income$4,675$56,100
Federal tax$832017 rates, HOH,stand. ded., 3 exempt.$995
State/City tax$0Guess, using 0.00% * (AGI - Exempt'n)$0
Soc. Sec.$362Assumes 1 earner paying$4,340
Medicare$85$1,015
Total income taxes$529$6,350
Income before other expenses  $4,146$49,750
Monthly Average Expenses:
Rent$1,980$23,760
Child activities $100$1,200
Childcare$700Input to Child and Dependent Care credit$8,400
Electricity$70$840
Entertainment$60$720
Groceries$250$3,000
Household; Maintenance$25$300
Internet$35$420
Medical Insurance (if not paid pre-tax)$40Input to Itemized Deductions$480
Miscellaneous$50$600
Non-mortgage total$3,310$39,720
Loans:
Student Loan$488$5,855
Credit card$108$1,301
Total Expense$3,906$46,876
Total to invest$239$2,874
Summary:
"Gross" income$5,833$70,000
Income taxes$529$6,350
After-tax income$5,304$63,650
IRA+401k/403b/TSP/457$1,158$13,900
Living expenses$3,310$39,720
Non-mortgage loans$596$7,156
After-tax investable$239$2,874

Filing Status31=S, 2=MFJ, 3=HOH
# Exemptions3
# Children <172
# Children <132
# Children for EIC2
Adult #1
Age39
# of earners1
Total Income$56,100
Std. Deduct.$9,350
Act. Deduct.$9,350
Exemption$12,150
SL int. (approx.)$2,185
AGI$53,915
MAGI$61,600
Taxable$32,415
1040 Tax$4,195
Dep. Care credit$1,200
Tax after n-r credit$2,995
Child Tax Cred.$2,000
Net Tax$995
Monthly$83
Item. Deduct.$0
VersionV8.17

Loans:Orig. Prin.Orig. LengthCurr. Prin.Yrs leftRate
Student Loan$46,00010$46,000105.000%
Credit card$3,0003$3,000318.000%



Holy crap - you guys are awesome.  Thank you SOOOO MUCH>. OK so I have the IRA and I get that but where do I put that other 8k that you are talking about? I don't have a 401k.  Do I just need to do a brokerage account? And for as much as I've read, now I'm confused.  That is pre-tax somehow?  I am used to an employer plan and now I don't have one, so aren't I just getting paid and then taking $ out of my checking account and putting it in the IRA?  What am I missing.?

pugetsound78

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That rent - ouch! Is moving an option - like to a different area that's less expensive?

I understand not wanting a roommate when you have kids...what about renting a duplex so you have a separate area but still splitting the rent?

Childcare swap? Someone watches your kids (I'm assuming before/after school?) and you watch theirs when they need it (ie when you're not working - maybe weekends or evenings). No money exchanged.
If they're in an after school program, see if a local highschool or grade 7/8 student would be cheaper to watch them? If another family also needs childcare at the same time, you could split the cost with those parents.

Other than rent/childcare, your expenses are pretty low already.

Are you getting child support?


Well shoot.  I just moved here in March.  It's right next to my work and semi close to the kids school.  I kinda have to pick one I suppose.  I signed a year lease. I don't think trying to get out of it will make much $ sense.  That's the feeling stuck part.  Also, as far as I can tell I have to move way away from civilization to get cheaper rent and then I have gas to work expenses. So I just don't know. 

I am paying a Manny and my ex husband to watch them when it's my turn. I will see if I can find anything cheaper or a trade of some sort.  That is huge huge stress. 

No child support.  we are 50/50 and have always made the same amount of money.  We get along great and just talk and split as needed.  THANK GOD.

pugetsound78

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If the inputs and calculations in the table below are reasonably descriptive of your situation, it appears you are in a decent position:
- you can pay off the CC bill this year, plus
- pay off the SL within 10 years, plus
- contribute ~$14K/yr to tax-deferred accounts.

If childcare goes away/down, so much the better.  Of course, if there's mistake in the inputs or calculations, ....

CategoryMonthly
Comments
Annual
Salary/Wages for earner #1$5,833$70,000
Traditional IRA$458At maximum$5,500
401(k) / 403(b) / TSP / etc.$700Room to increase?$8,400
Income subject to IRS tax$4,675$56,100
Federal Total Income$4,675$56,100
Federal tax$832017 rates, HOH,stand. ded., 3 exempt.$995
State/City tax$0Guess, using 0.00% * (AGI - Exempt'n)$0
Soc. Sec.$362Assumes 1 earner paying$4,340
Medicare$85$1,015
Total income taxes$529$6,350
Income before other expenses  $4,146$49,750
Monthly Average Expenses:
Rent$1,980$23,760
Child activities $100$1,200
Childcare$700Input to Child and Dependent Care credit$8,400
Electricity$70$840
Entertainment$60$720
Groceries$250$3,000
Household; Maintenance$25$300
Internet$35$420
Medical Insurance (if not paid pre-tax)$40Input to Itemized Deductions$480
Miscellaneous$50$600
Non-mortgage total$3,310$39,720
Loans:
Student Loan$488$5,855
Credit card$108$1,301
Total Expense$3,906$46,876
Total to invest$239$2,874
Summary:
"Gross" income$5,833$70,000
Income taxes$529$6,350
After-tax income$5,304$63,650
IRA+401k/403b/TSP/457$1,158$13,900
Living expenses$3,310$39,720
Non-mortgage loans$596$7,156
After-tax investable$239$2,874

Filing Status31=S, 2=MFJ, 3=HOH
# Exemptions3
# Children <172
# Children <132
# Children for EIC2
Adult #1
Age39
# of earners1
Total Income$56,100
Std. Deduct.$9,350
Act. Deduct.$9,350
Exemption$12,150
SL int. (approx.)$2,185
AGI$53,915
MAGI$61,600
Taxable$32,415
1040 Tax$4,195
Dep. Care credit$1,200
Tax after n-r credit$2,995
Child Tax Cred.$2,000
Net Tax$995
Monthly$83
Item. Deduct.$0
VersionV8.17

Loans:Orig. Prin.Orig. LengthCurr. Prin.Yrs leftRate
Student Loan$46,00010$46,000105.000%
Credit card$3,0003$3,000318.000%


OH ALSO I only claim one child on taxes.  ex hubby claims the other

MDM

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OH ALSO I only claim one child on taxes.  ex hubby claims the other
You can enter your actual numbers in the case study spreadsheet, then do "what if...?" scenarios to your heart's content.

MDM

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Holy crap - you guys are awesome.  Thank you SOOOO MUCH>. OK so I have the IRA and I get that but where do I put that other 8k that you are talking about? I don't have a 401k.  Do I just need to do a brokerage account? And for as much as I've read, now I'm confused.  That is pre-tax somehow?  I am used to an employer plan and now I don't have one, so aren't I just getting paid and then taking $ out of my checking account and putting it in the IRA?  What am I missing.?
No 401k?  Ouch.

Does your employer have a SIMPLE IRA (e.g., see Compare Small Business Retirement Plans Chart)?  It's unusual (but possible) for a "$200 employer match to IRA" to go into a personal IRA...?

Maybe see How to campaign for a better 401(k) plan - Bogleheads for some ideas.  Can you share what type of business this is?

pugetsound78

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Holy crap - you guys are awesome.  Thank you SOOOO MUCH>. OK so I have the IRA and I get that but where do I put that other 8k that you are talking about? I don't have a 401k.  Do I just need to do a brokerage account? And for as much as I've read, now I'm confused.  That is pre-tax somehow?  I am used to an employer plan and now I don't have one, so aren't I just getting paid and then taking $ out of my checking account and putting it in the IRA?  What am I missing.?
No 401k?  Ouch.

Does your employer have a SIMPLE IRA (e.g., see Compare Small Business Retirement Plans Chart)?  It's unusual (but possible) for a "$200 employer match to IRA" to go into a personal IRA...?

Maybe see How to campaign for a better 401(k) plan - Bogleheads for some ideas.  Can you share what type of business this is?

I work for a 4 person company and I'm the 4th person. So he said he will match me up to 200 a month.  so noo. not really an option.   What do I do?

MDM

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I work for a 4 person company and I'm the 4th person. So he said he will match me up to 200 a month.  so noo. not really an option.   What do I do?
Short term
1) Assuming the CC interest is ~18% or more, put every spare dollar to pay that off
2) Put the full $5500 into a traditional IRA
3) Put extra money into taxable account.  See Three-fund portfolio - Bogleheads for some ideas for steps #2 and #3.

Medium term
1) Get the boss's ok to look at 401k or SIMPLE IRA options for the business
2) Call Employee Fiduciary or Fidelity (link in previous post) or whomever to determine options
3) Discuss with boss

Good luck!

Lepetitange3

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Wait, you're paying your ex to babysit?  So he's getting a few extra hours in his time sharing or whatever they call it in your state?  No just no.  He's not a babysitter, he's their father.  Either he watches them because he wants to spend a few more hours with his kids than he's been awarded by the court or they go to a different care program because the price you're paying him and the nanny for the few hours a week you need is outrageous. 

Suggestions for other options:

Many schools even public ones have wrap around care...I know at my daughters school it's done by the YMCA, the price is much lower and the hours are greater than what you're listing here.

Many after school activities and sport programs will also pick the kids up from school and keep them for whatever sport and then you pick them up from that, that might even allow you to roll some of these kids activity costs into your care cost so you can slash that $100

I don't know how religious you are or how you feel about religion, but some religious based after care programs pick kids up and are also free or cost next to nothing

I see someone already mentioned swapping with other moms.  Make friends at kids school, rotate who gets the after school play date based on work schedules .  Then you can also feel less guilty about turning more expensive kid play options down.

Seriously then$700 for the few hours you're talking about is insane.  You live in a large metropolitan area, there are other options.

Lepetitange3

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Also have you looked at care.com?

I mean if the hours you've given for when you need coverage are correct, you're paying over $20/hr?

 I know you can get this number down.


PDXTabs

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Short term
1) Assuming the CC interest is ~18% or more, put every spare dollar to pay that off
2) Put the full $5500 into a traditional IRA
3) Put extra money into taxable account.  See Three-fund portfolio - Bogleheads for some ideas for steps #2 and #3.

I might pay off the student loan(s) before taxable investments, depending on the interest rate.

Lady SA

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Short term
1) Assuming the CC interest is ~18% or more, put every spare dollar to pay that off
2) Put the full $5500 into a traditional IRA
3) Put extra money into taxable account.  See Three-fund portfolio - Bogleheads for some ideas for steps #2 and #3.

I might pay off the student loan(s) before taxable investments, depending on the interest rate.
Agreed. OP, can you share a breakdown of your debts and their interest rates? We can give better advice if we know the interest rates on the various debts.

mamagoose

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I was going to suggest a childcare swap too - do you know any other parents at your kids' school who work on the weekends? They could watch your kids before/after school and you could watch their kids on weekends. I know it's easier said than done, but maybe this is worth asking around the parents in your kids' classrooms next time there's a family event at school. Lots of parents are looking to save $$$ on childcare and it's easier to agree to if your kids already all know each other.

pugetsound78

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Wait, you're paying your ex to babysit?  So he's getting a few extra hours in his time sharing or whatever they call it in your state?  No just no.  He's not a babysitter, he's their father.  Either he watches them because he wants to spend a few more hours with his kids than he's been awarded by the court or they go to a different care program because the price you're paying him and the nanny for the few hours a week you need is outrageous. 

Suggestions for other options:

Many schools even public ones have wrap around care...I know at my daughters school it's done by the YMCA, the price is much lower and the hours are greater than what you're listing here.

Many after school activities and sport programs will also pick the kids up from school and keep them for whatever sport and then you pick them up from that, that might even allow you to roll some of these kids activity costs into your care cost so you can slash that $100

I don't know how religious you are or how you feel about religion, but some religious based after care programs pick kids up and are also free or cost next to nothing

I see someone already mentioned swapping with other moms.  Make friends at kids school, rotate who gets the after school play date based on work schedules .  Then you can also feel less guilty about turning more expensive kid play options down.

Seriously then$700 for the few hours you're talking about is insane.  You live in a large metropolitan area, there are other options.

Ok so I will work harder on this one.  Me and the ex are just helping each other out.  I just moved here so don't know or trust anyone which is 1/2 of the battle. Me and ex are not fighting or fighting over time and money. Always just doing win-win. He helps me all the time. he was just easier and cheaper to pay than a nanny at 7:45 am for an hour.

Anyway - I am looking for cheaper options.  Summer is rolling around so it may get worse for a minute.

Thank you!

cchrissyy

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oh wow, no don't pay the kids' father to babysit them! yikes!

he can watch them for free, or you pay somebody else

what does he do for childcare on his own days? does he pay somebody? If it helps to think of it this way, the way this stuff normally works is divorced parents split the costs of daycare/afterschool care.  Like, instead of you each finding care for 2-3 days per week, the kids would be in one program all 5 days and the parents split the cost.

It's nice you guys are cooperative. But consider your options and ask him to split the cost of outside care 50-50, or, if he prefers to watch them himself, cool, but that is NO COST TO YOU.

pugetsound78

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Short term
1) Assuming the CC interest is ~18% or more, put every spare dollar to pay that off
2) Put the full $5500 into a traditional IRA
3) Put extra money into taxable account.  See Three-fund portfolio - Bogleheads for some ideas for steps #2 and #3.

I might pay off the student loan(s) before taxable investments, depending on the interest rate.
Agreed. OP, can you share a breakdown of your debts and their interest rates? We can give better advice if we know the interest rates on the various debts.

CC debt $3,000  17.74%
Honda $3,000    3.61%
Student Loan $47,000  3.875%

pugetsound78

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oh wow, no don't pay the kids' father to babysit them! yikes!

he can watch them for free, or you pay somebody else

what does he do for childcare on his own days? does he pay somebody? If it helps to think of it this way, the way this stuff normally works is divorced parents split the costs of daycare/afterschool care.  Like, instead of you each finding care for 2-3 days per week, the kids would be in one program all 5 days and the parents split the cost.

It's nice you guys are cooperative. But consider your options and ask him to split the cost of outside care 50-50, or, if he prefers to watch them himself, cool, but that is NO COST TO YOU.

Ha ok I get it.  Everyone thinks I'm nuts. I couldn't find anyone to watch them between 7:30-8:40 am so that is what is happening now.  I will fix it. :)

pugetsound78

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oh wow, no don't pay the kids' father to babysit them! yikes!

he can watch them for free, or you pay somebody else

what does he do for childcare on his own days? does he pay somebody? If it helps to think of it this way, the way this stuff normally works is divorced parents split the costs of daycare/afterschool care.  Like, instead of you each finding care for 2-3 days per week, the kids would be in one program all 5 days and the parents split the cost.

It's nice you guys are cooperative. But consider your options and ask him to split the cost of outside care 50-50, or, if he prefers to watch them himself, cool, but that is NO COST TO YOU.

Ha ok I get it.  Everyone thinks I'm nuts. I couldn't find anyone to watch them between 7:30-8:40 am so that is what is happening now.  I will fix it. :)

and yes we split child care.  we've been doing this for 5 years.  Just moved across the country and now live 15 mins away - long story - was just doing the best I could for the short term. All will change come june 27 when school gets out.  Trying to find the cheapest thing where I still feel like kids are in good hands.

Lady SA

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CC debt $3,000  17.74%
Honda $3,000    3.61%
Student Loan $47,000  3.875%

Is the SL rate fixed or variable? That is a good interest rate, I would invest before paying the SL down. If the rate was above 5% or so, the general consensus is to pay off loans before investing, but you are comfortably below that so your returns on your money over time will be greater if you invest rather than pay the loan off.
If the rate is variable, that's a different story. With that principle, having a variable rate that could jump at any time would be too much risk.

Definitely focus on getting rid of the CC debt before anything else, though.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 12:48:25 PM by LadyLB »

honeybbq

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Also have you looked at care.com?

I mean if the hours you've given for when you need coverage are correct, you're paying over $20/hr?

 I know you can get this number down.

Minimum wage here is $15. Child care is extraordinarily expensive here for some reason. My 5 year old in prek is at $1750/month....

FinallyAwake

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oh wow, no don't pay the kids' father to babysit them! yikes!

he can watch them for free, or you pay somebody else

what does he do for childcare on his own days? does he pay somebody? If it helps to think of it this way, the way this stuff normally works is divorced parents split the costs of daycare/afterschool care.  Like, instead of you each finding care for 2-3 days per week, the kids would be in one program all 5 days and the parents split the cost.

It's nice you guys are cooperative. But consider your options and ask him to split the cost of outside care 50-50, or, if he prefers to watch them himself, cool, but that is NO COST TO YOU.

Ha ok I get it.  Everyone thinks I'm nuts. I couldn't find anyone to watch them between 7:30-8:40 am so that is what is happening now.  I will fix it. :)

I actually don't think you're nuts at all.  You have to pay a babysitter for those times any way, right?  (If that's what was agreed on in the divorce.)  You've hired a babysitter.....it just happens to be the kids' father.  I think that makes a heck of a lot more sense than paying a stranger/business to watch them.

However, I wonder if you can alter the children's arrangement with him so that you don't have to pay a sitter.  Maybe he gets them more during the week, and you get them on weekends?


Paul der Krake

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Did you finish some studies recently or have you been sitting on your student loans for nearly two decades? What's going on here.

Second the SIMPLE IRA lobbying recommendation. It's virtually no cost to the employer and will bring down your tax liability to peanuts.

And maybe I'm being too picky - but I can't really get a room mate (unless I'm sleeping with them - ;)) because I have a 2 bedroom and 2 kids and I have a one year lease.
(emphasis mine)
Yeah, so basically finding a Mr Pugetsound78 who can shoulder half of the rent is about the same value proposition as getting a $15k raise, plus intangible benefits. Going on dates may very well be the highest ROI activity! Lucky for you, the dating pool for women in the Puget Sound area is one of the best in the country, or so I'm told.


 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!