Reader Case Study: How to stay motivated at work, not FI yet

[cincystache]

Life Situation: Married Filing Joint, 34 years old, 2 kids (under 5)

Gross income - annual
Day job: 95,100
Side gig: 3,000

Max HSA 7,000
Max Roths 12,000
401k - 10,000 (no match offered)

Take home pay monthly: 5,046

Taxes: We have a pretty simple situation, all W-2 income, standard deduction.

Current expenses: We average right under 4,000 per month over the last 3 years, slightly more with our second child added. We are working to improve this and have started actually budgeting our money recently instead of just tracking it. Our goal is to get to 3500 in monthly expenses.

Fixed Costs:
P&I mortgage : 735
Prop Taxes: 350
Term life (wife and I) : 44
Internet : 55
Phone : 40
Water/Sewer: 90
Electric/gas : 200
car ins : 55
home ins: 63
amazon music : 10.69
Disney + : 7.50

Variable costs:
Groceries/house supplies : 800
gasoline : 40
Healthcare : 100 out of pocket (avg last 12 mos)
restaurants : 100 (avg last 12 mos)
home improvement: 130 (avg)
clothes : 50
Misc: 200 (amazon stuff, kids stuff)
Gifts/Charity : 50


Assets: 541,500

House : 215,000
Retirement accts: 254,000
HSA: 30,000
Cash: 28,000
Taxable brokerage: 3,000
Cars: 8,000+3500

We maintain an 20% cash/bonds, 25% Total International Stock and 55% US stock allocation

Liabilities:

Primary mortgage: 157,000 left,  fixed 30 year at 3.625%
No other debt and none planned in the future

Specific Question(s):
I'm feeling pretty bored and unmotivated with my work right now. I've been with the same company for 11 years and while I've done okay, I'm pretty tired of the corporate grind. It's not even that my job is all that stressful, there are deadlines but I'm starting to not care pretty obviously. I've told my management I don't want to get promoted anytime soon which helped lower the stress levels a bit but I'm still pretty bored and unmotivated to keep trying at this job. I think I stayed a little too long. It hasn't gotten to the level of getting negative feedback yet but I can tell I'm starting to slip on things and losing my edge. I don't like the feeling of doing a bad job at something (recovering perfectionist) so I'd rather either fix it and get my motivation back or leave and focus on something I want to be good at. I also don't want to be the guy doing the bare minimum to collect a paycheck without getting fired. Nothing against those people but that is difficult for me to do without feeling immoral. If the company offered a severance, I would take it in a heartbeat and find something else but I feel like I have golden handcuffs and until I find something else I don't want to leave.

I'm looking for advice on career but not in the traditional sense of how to increase income etc. I want to find something easier, less stressful, more enjoyable, more rewarding and purposeful even if it involves a paycut. From my perspective, we aren't FI yet but we'll get there around age 50 even if we stop saving entirely so we just need something that pays the bills (around 50k per year takehome). I'd prefer not to grind it out for 10 more years just to get there a few years earlier, our portfolio should start to do most of the heavy lifting now...

If I keep grinding it out and saving roughly 30k per year we'll hit FI in 8-10 years (assuming 7% returns)
If I stop saving entirely we'll get there in 14-17 years

I think that means we are "CoastFI" but I don't really plan on stopping work entirely even when we hit our number. I would like to work part time well into my 70s if possible and if I enjoy my work. Is there anyone out there who realized they were coastFI and actually made a change towards a better job situation?

I know this is rambling a bit but I appreciate any advice or guidance on what to do in our fortunate situation. I know there are several in this community who must have lost motivation to care about their jobs once they realized FI was inevitable regardless of further savings...

[tamuaggie2011]

To give you advice from someone from a fairly similar life situation (Married 31 no kids yet but plan on them in the near future):

I also struggle with motivation at my day job a lot of times, but I think you need to remember your focus. You presumably similar to myself picked the job in order to "get ahead" and provide a safe home and "financial house" for your family. At this point it gets tough because you can see the "light at the end of the tunnel" in that the investments will grow enough and your expenses will soon be covered by them as well.

If you're like me then I think the struggle comes from two sides: 1. You know will have all the "Is dotted and Ts crossed" but you don't have them yet so it somewhat feels like a goal still not accomplished and 2. You don't quite yet have the "where" you are going to next firmly squared away.

I could be somewhat assuming too much so feel free to correct me if wrong, but along these longs I think the most important step is to begin to figure out what the actual next thing is that you want to do. Once you are confident in that goal it will remove the stress of item#1 and the confidence to "take the plunge".

In the meantime, I think that while you could "coast" I wouldn't recommend "taking your foot off the gas" at all. Keep working and analyzing your goals, perhaps pay off the house faster if there is excess cash flow. At the end of the day, part of your hesitation is still based on the "not being finished" aspect financially so while you look for what you would want to do next keep building up the financial future of your family.

[legalstache]

My situation is also similar to yours in a lot of ways (e.g., age, income; we only have 1 kid for now). Like you, I'm also pretty unmotivated at my job but feel like I have golden handcuffs. I would also like to quit and find something that simply covers our expenses.

What I did was write down an "Early Retirement Plan." Basically, I ran some projections about where our assets would be in the future. The upshot of it was that I gave myself permission to quit my current job and find something more fulfilling in 3 years. Which is now 2 years and 7 months, but who's counting? I even made a paper chain with 36 links- I rip one off for each month of work I complete. What will I do when I quit my job? I don't know yet. But for me, having something in writing felt more concrete and real than constantly running numbers and going over scenarios in my head.

Frankly, I'm not sure I'll have the courage to quit my job at my pre-set end date. But, at the very least this makes it feel like I'm working towards a real goal. Perhaps this is just a form of procrastination preventing me from finding something more fulfilling now. But I also know that a more fulfilling job is likely to come with a pay cut. In the meantime, at least, this has made work more bearable and allowed me to continue to save and get closer to my ultimate FI number.  

[Scio5]

Just commenting to say that I'm here too! My job is generally low stress and pretty chill and has EXCELLENT benefits, but I just don't care anymore. I zone out and struggle to get any work done, and then feel shame and guilt about collecting my paycheck. I have really low expenses so I'm reasonably sure I could coastFIRE if I found something part-time that paid my expenses. It may also be some depression and burnout from COVID more than the job itself, so for me (and possibly you) it might be helpful to check in with a therapist but that seems daunting too. I vest into a pension in two years and two months, so I'm trying to hold on that long before I jump (because who gets pensions anymore?!).

[Mrs. Sloth]

I feel your pain. I been wake up feeling unmotivated, easily irritated by work, and mentally exhausted. It isn't stressful at work right now for me either. I am hanging on as my FIRE goal is getting close. If I have years and years to go, I would try to make a change to something more fulfilling and less stressful too. I would try to do it right now if I know what that next "ideal" job is but I don't. I am not motivated to figure it out personally as I am getting close to FIRE. So I think the 1st step for change in this situation is to identify what this next designation of a job is that you want to transition into. Once identified, works towards getting there...inaction makes one feel stuck IMO.

With a young family and work obligations it may be hard to feel like you have the time to work towards this goal. Maybe dedicate 30 mins a day/every other day/week to working towards "change."

[Freedomin5]

What would you want to do if money weren’t an issue?

Is there any way to monetize that?

[RWTL]

... I even made a paper chain with 36 links- I rip one off for each month of work I complete. What will I do when I quit my job? I don't know yet. But for me, having something in writing felt more concrete and real than constantly running numbers and going over scenarios in my head.

Love this.

[couscous]

In the same boat too! Similar age, savings, costs, and thoughts.

Just this week I made it a goal to pitch my employer on part-time work in 6 months. In addition, I’m currently working on developing a product as a hobby so I can learn and focus my creative energy --- in preparation for my transition. I use YNAB for budgeting and am trying to save up some additional money so I don't stress when I want to spend money on my product idea once I transition to PT.

I love that you mention being a “recovering perfectionist” because that is such a real struggle - I deal with the same challenge. I'm currently getting support from BetterHelp.com (CBT therapy) in addition to focusing on my plan and making consistent progress.

I find whenever I focus on my side project it gives me energy, which then I can use for work and, in turn, not have work be so draining. I echo what Mrs. Sloth said “Maybe dedicate 30 mins a day/every other day/week to working towards "change." I’m doing this right now, and when perfectionism gets in the way I say to myself…. “ That thought is not helpful right now. I am going to refocus on my next action step.” And believe me… right now I’m making very small action steps too. Actually, today, posting on this forum may be my only action towards my longer-term change and I’m okay with that! I have an accountability buddy and we have a meeting scheduled on 12/4 to review our plans for what we want to do next and when.

[cincystache]

Thank you all for the helpful replies. I'm glad I'm not alone...
@tamuaggie2011 - I'm not sure what I want. I want to take a year off and not think about money or work at all. I want to travel with my family and spend time with my kids. I want to read, exercise, build stuff, learn new things. I can and do most of those things already but in terms of the next step professionally. I have no idea at this moment. I just want something easy, low stress, purposeful. I agree doing the work to figure it out is necessary, I'm just tired and struggle to do so on top of all my other responsibilities

@legalstache - I like the chain idea and having a concrete goal in mind for leaving. I think I struggle pulling the trigger because I don't know what I want to do and I don't want to leave a high paying job I don't like and find a low paying job I don't like. I struggle with the scarcity mindset for sure but I'm working on it. Thanks for sharing

@Scio5 your response rang most true for me, that is almost exactly how I feel, bored but also guilty for getting a paycheck that I don't feel I earned... I've been in therapy a lot this year and it helps highlight problems for me but I'm still working through them.

@Mrs. Sloth I agree identifying the next job is a good step. I'm working on it but everything I come across either involves a 50%+ paycut (electrician, plumber, lab technician, radiology tech etc) and/or going back to school which I'm not willing to do right now... It's definitely hard to make the time for this

@Freedomin5 that's a great question. I like renewable energy, bikes, being efficient with money, minimalism, frugality, playing guitar, reading, hiking, climbing, mtn biking. I've been a big mustachian fan since pretty early on in the blog. I'm not very business savy and I don't really want to be an entrepreneur. I kind of just want to be a bum and live a simple life off investment income, spend a ton of time with my kids, teach them stuff and let them pursue their interests while I pursue mine without having to think about bills or mandatory work. I'd like to travel slowly across the country/world. I'm not sure how to monetize my inherent laziness ;). I despise social media and "building my brand" or selling people anything. Nothing against people that enjoy that stuff I just struggle to care all that much. My favorite "job" is receiving dividend income. I like hard physical labor but that's not something I would want to do full time in a mandatory context given I am 34 and want to take care of my joints and back... Long answer to a short question.

@couscous thank your for sharing. part-time is something I've considered but I haven't approached the topic yet, it's something I see doing when I'm a bit closer to FI (in case they say no). I'll have to check out betterhelp.. I'm glad you have a hobby that focuses creative energy, perhaps that is something that could help me.

[Freedomin5]

Can you take what you’re doing now and transfer it to a company that focuses on “ renewable energy, bikes, being efficient with money, minimalism, frugality, playing guitar, reading, hiking, climbing, or mtn biking”?

I don’t know what you do, but if you’re an IT guy, instead of doing IT for a company that makes widgets, do IT for a renewable energy company. Etc.

And keep building your stash so you can work your way to a “collecting dividends” job. :)

[Mrs. Sloth]

Thank you all for the helpful replies. I'm glad I'm not alone...
@tamuaggie2011 - I'm not sure what I want. I want to take a year off and not think about money or work at all. I want to travel with my family and spend time with my kids. I want to read, exercise, build stuff, learn new things. I can and do most of those things already but in terms of the next step professionally. I have no idea at this moment. I just want something easy, low stress, purposeful. I agree doing the work to figure it out is necessary, I'm just tired and struggle to do so on top of all my other responsibilities

Based on the above...can you take a long sabbatical and take some time to decompress/network/explore options?

[legalstache]

A couple other thoughts:

Are there any changes you can make to your current work situation to make it more bearable? For example, for me, part of my problem was that I was expected to be in the office from 9-5 but typically didn't have enough work to fill my day, so there were weeks where I'd spend hours with nothing to do. Working from home during COVID has helped with that as I don't need to be in front of my computer all day.

Also, when was the last time you took a vacation? A week off can be a great way to reset a little. Obviously, it's tricky with COVID now, but maybe a week up in a cabin somewhere or just a staycation would be refreshing.

Neither of those thoughts really address your fundamental issue with your job, but perhaps could provide temporary solutions.

[MrThatsDifferent]

There’s a lot to unpack, but I think the others have given you good advice. I just want to check that your calculations are correct? Your expenses are $50k, so you need $1,250,000 invested to draw from. At 34 you have around a $250k. By 50, if you added nothing else, I’m seeing $750k. That’s just me ball parking it so I could be wrong. Are you confident in your numbers or projections?

[mistymoney]

With a young family and work obligations it may be hard to feel like you have the time to work towards this goal. Maybe dedicate 30 mins a day/every other day/week to working towards "change."

Interesting!  - but what do you mean by "change"

[Mrs. Sloth]

With a young family and work obligations it may be hard to feel like you have the time to work towards this goal. Maybe dedicate 30 mins a day/every other day/week to working towards "change."

Interesting!  - but what do you mean by "change"

...meaning taking actions towards the desired change/outcome. Say you are at point A job and you want to get to point B job...then you spend x mins a day/week/whatever towards the transition to point B. That could be looking for point B jobs, applying for poing B jobs, networking, taking classes or whatever energy spent towards the desired outcome/change.

[cincystache]

Thanks for the additional thoughts/replies. I have a phone call with a former co-worker that left my current company to go work for a smaller company across town in a separate but related field. If nothing else it might offer a change of scenery and get me out of the mega corp BS I've come to loathe, but we'll see..

I've also been looking into becoming a home inspector which requires no schooling and can pay 50-60k starting out. I think the clear responsibilities and having a task that starts and ends on the same day would be gratifying at least in the short term vs. working on projects that stretch across multiple years and have very unclear deliverables and feel like they never end. I'm also able bodied and would appreciate a job that requires motion, working with my hands etc. Not that I think it is perfect, but it would at least be a breath of fresh air, I hope.

@MrThatsDifferent : I appreciate the check on the numbers, I'm a little looser with the math because I don't want to "retire" in the sense that I never earn another dollar. I'm hoping to reach a level where I have about 1 million in paper assets AND a willingness to bring in at least 10k per year either working a part time job that pays $10 per hour or a full time job that I actually love doing for at least 10k but probably more. With that being said, you're correct in calling out my sloppy math.

@legalstache : I'm trying to make changes but I haven't been successful thus far. As I mentioned, it's not that the job is overly difficult or stressful, I just don't like it and I don't care about the company's mission or the product we are selling or anything. I also don't have a good relationship with my manager, it's not bad, but I don't care to put in the effort to improve it.  It is purely a paycheck to me which is important but becomes less important as we get closer to FI. I'd rather be learning or doing something I care about than "mailing it in" just to get a paycheck and get closer to FI. At least that is the internal debate that I have with myself on a daily basis. If I could pinpoint one issue to fix and focus on that I could probably make it work but my problem is that pretty much every aspect of the job is bothersome so I'm running out of reasons to stay pretty quickly.

@Freedomin5 That would be the case in an ideal world. Getting paid to do things you really enjoy/care about. My education is in chemistry so I could go work for a company that researches renewable energy for example. That is something I will explore, definitely when I reach FI I will be much more willing to make that jump. I think my problem is I want to go back to "entry level" at something and get my hands dirty. The longer I stay at my current gig the more they want me to do "organizational crap" and not actually hands on work.

I'm craving something dead simple that I can forget about when I'm not at work... I'm tired of all the complexity, navigating internal systems and mental load associated with being a "knowledge worker". There is always more to be done or more you could be doing or something else to optimize. And while that is the case, it is also entirely up to me to decide what to do and how to do it and why to do it etc. My job is never ending, it has no beginning, middle, or end. I'd rather do something repetitious where I can see my progress (like cutting grass) than work on a multifunctional team of 15 people where no-one actually does anything and it isn't clear what my job is. Obviously I can't make 90k+ cutting grass so here I am, thinking out loud in the forums. Thanks for listening! I'm glad I'm not the only one to experience this, it helps to hear the different perspectives and your advice/comments are greatly appreciated.

[legalstache]

Sounds like you have some ideas percolating at least. One other thought would be speaking to a career coach. I'm actually planning to have an initial phone call with one later this week. I have a lot of thoughts similar to yours, like I'd like an "entry level" type job or something where I see a tangible result to my work. I'm hoping my coach can give me some perspective and maybe help focus my thinking.

Like you, I don't necessarily want FI so I can completely quit working. I think if I had work I enjoyed I'd be fine working (at least part time) until a normal retirement age.

[cincystache]

@legalstache  I spoke with a career coach a couple months back and it was pretty helpful and opened my eyes to some options other than just grinding it out and trying to make it work where I am. I took an assessment and it helped me understand I gravitate towards hands on work. My top professions came back as electrician, radiology technician, engineering technician, horticulture, forestry, production worker, accounting.

One thing I'm struggling with when I look at that list is they all would involve a pretty steep paycut at least at first which I'm willing to do but not without some serious runway. If I were already FI I would spend 6 months trying out each of them until I found something I wanted to pursue further but I don't (yet) have that luxury with bills to pay and a family to support although I'm working on it. In a perfect world I could work as a forest ranger, cut grass at a golf course a couple days a week, do some taxes on the side, install some solar panels when I feel like it, tinker with and fix some bikes here and there and do some manual labor when I felt like it. I haven't found that job yet unfortunately haha.

[MrThatsDifferent]

OP, ok, even if you’re still making $10k a year, you still seem to be $250k short to reach $1m in the timeframe you’re talking, as you can’t factor in the equity in the house unless you sell it.

[cincystache]

OP, ok, even if you’re still making $10k a year, you still seem to be $250k short to reach $1m in the timeframe you’re talking, as you can’t factor in the equity in the house unless you sell it.

That's fair, I think I did the calculation assuming I needed a net worth of 1M (including home equity) but to your point, I shouldn't factor in the house equity in my calcs if we plan on keeping it and living in it. I do however, include the HSA, cash, and brokerage account meaning I'm starting from 315,000 today not 250,000 so...
at 7% assuming no further contributions we hit 1M at 16.6 years at age 50.
at 7% assuming we keep grinding and saving 3,000 per month, we hit 1M at 8.7 years

So my thought is, do I find something (or many different things) enjoyable that pays at least 50k take home per year and do it for the next 16.6 years at minimum or grind for another 8.7 years doing something I've grown to despise. The best option would be to do both something I enjoy and that pays well but that is the holy grail I'm struggling to find or cultivate.

[legalstache]

So my thought is, do I find something (or many different things) enjoyable that pays at least 50k take home per year and do it for the next 16.6 years at minimum or grind for another 8.7 years doing something I've grown to despise. The best option would be to do both something I enjoy and that pays well but that is the holy grail I'm struggling to find or cultivate.

What about a third approach? Ballparking the numbers, if you worked until you have $400,000 (excluding home equity), what if you drew $20,000 from that amount per year and earned another $25,000 a year by working? You'd have to figure out health insurance and taxes, but otherwise by my math you could do this for 30 years, and, assuming 6% returns, actually have a stash of $720,000 at that time. 

Then, you could withdraw $40,000 per year from that $720,000 for another 30 years, supplementing your income with whatever SS is available. 

I'm sure there are some holes in this idea, and obviously there are some risks, but it might allow you to leave your current job in the next year or two and pursue the kinds of things you're interested in knowing you only need to bring in $25k per year. This plan would require you to work for more years in some capacity, but it seems like you're willing to do that if it's something you enjoy.

[change_seeker]

Thank you all for the helpful replies. I'm glad I'm not alone...
@tamuaggie2011 - I'm not sure what I want. I want to take a year off and not think about money or work at all. I want to travel with my family and spend time with my kids. I want to read, exercise, build stuff, learn new things. I can and do most of those things already but in terms of the next step professionally. I have no idea at this moment. I just want something easy, low stress, purposeful. I agree doing the work to figure it out is necessary, I'm just tired and struggle to do so on top of all my other responsibilities

Based on the above...can you take a long sabbatical and take some time to decompress/network/explore options?

I'm going to chime in here based on my personal experience.  I was in a very similar situation to you back in 2016.  Very de-motivated, just 'punching the clock' as an engineer.  I was fired.  My wife and I had been contemplating a sabbatical anyway after realizing that pushing for FIRE at 50 meant it would coincide with the departure of our youngest from our home.

We took a rather extreme approach to sabbatical.  We sold our home, bought a 15 passenger van and 29' travel trailer, and spent six months exploring America with four kids and a dog.  After another six months of job-searching in new fields (while parked in my in-laws back yard), I ended up back in the field I've worked in for 15 years.  I'm now really enjoying my job in between cyclical bouts of low motivation.  For me the leadership and company that I worked for made a big difference.  I didn't despise engineering, I despised the immoral people I worked for.

If you are going to do a sabbatical, I recommend keeping it small and focused in scope.

More details here:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/from-frugal-to-fire/

And here:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/gap-year-sabbatical-help-me-think-it-through/

[chagan]

that is some story @change_seeker ... pretty ballsy Ill say to pack up sell your house and get on the road. Motivation or lack off can be challenging, and not to sound too cynical, but when I am that spot, I think of the millions who don't have a job even when they badly need one and cant get one.

If you are part of the YOLO crowd, taking a sabbatical sounds perfect.

I hope for your own sake OP that your motivation levels improve, life is too short to be bored at the job. I hope you find a change of scene.

[cincystache]

Update after taking a few weeks away from the forums... Thanks for the additional replies

I've applied for an internal transfer/demotion back to a production type role that will hopefully be a much better fit with my interests. The work will be much more hands-on, mechanical and physical vs. endless meetings, email, powerpoint etc. It will also be a job that is much easier to leave at work and nearly impossible to do from home since it is an operator type role (according to the guy I'm replacing who is retiring). Hopefully I'll start by March/April of this year.

I'm hopeful this will be a big step in the right direction towards better work life balance. It seems like a much more focused job where my responsibilities are very clear and they end at 5:00 each day instead of having low level stress 24/7 because stuff can pop up at any time.

Thank you to those that offered advice, thinking through things on here and hearing your advice helped me have the courage to talk to my management and reach out and find a new gig internally.

[chagan]

Kudos on pulling the plug to make a call to hopefully change things in the future and making the switch.
All the very best with the new gig.