Author Topic: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?  (Read 3583 times)

duyen

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Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« on: May 19, 2025, 04:42:59 PM »
We are a couple in mid 40s with 2 kids living in a VHCOL area. My current take home is 18k (single income).

Monthly expenses: 14k (6k rent, 8k other expenses which include a 1.5k for helping parents).

Total NW: 4.1M (1.3M in 401k and Roth)

As per the 4% rule, I need about 4.2M so I'm kind of close or almost FI. But my elder child will start college in 2 years and the college can be expensive as she wants to study out of state. My younger one wants to stay at our current schools (attached to her friends) which might tie us up to our current area for another 7 years.

Retirement Plan
Considering worst case college (and living) expenses, I'm estimating at 400k per kid. Now if I can keep working for another two years my NW will be around 5M. I can then retire in current place and afford elder child's college expenses. Once my younger one goes to college in 7 years, can afford to pay 400k for her college and retire to a LCOL place (combined with some expat living if the market doesn't do well).

Please let me know your thoughts

P.S. Simulating the Financial Goals Scenario on Portfolio Visualizer yielded 95% success rate for my case below

- Retiring now with 4.1M
- Start paying kids college in 2 years (100k / year)
- Stay in current VHCOL with expenses of 14k / month for next 7 years
- Move to LCOL after 7 years and spend 6k / month for rest of retirement
« Last Edit: May 19, 2025, 07:36:41 PM by duyen »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2025, 01:29:37 PM »
Here are a few thoughts:
1) Paying $100k per year for your kids' college is nuts. Wacko. Cuckoo. Insane. Stupid. Affluenza-inducing.  IMO, if your kids want to attend a school that expensive, they should be doing it on their own dime, not yours.  After all, if that hyper-expensive degree is going to be worth it, it better land them a super-lucrative job that will allow them to pay for it.
2) Seven years of paying ...let's call it an extra$4k/mo in rent (compared to a LCOL area) doesn't seem like a great tradeoff vs paying out-of-state tuition.  Have you done the math? ($4k/mo * 12 mo/year * 7 years = $336k)
3) That younger kid graduates HS in 7 years.  That means that you are literally planning the next decade of your life around the whims of an 11-year-old child.  I've seen several of my own kids pass through that age.  They can't be trusted to make themselves a healthy lunch, let alone decide where they're going to college.
4) It would seem that there are three competing priorities here:
---Retire now
---Continue living in your VHCOL area
---Pay for your kids' ludicrous college
You have enough saved up that you can choose two of those three and be guaranteed success.  Pick all three, and you're probably ok, but it's certainly not optimal.

Here's an alternative to your current plan:
1) Retire today, and move to a LCOL area immediately.  Spend $400k on a nice house, leaving you with $3.7million
2) Give your kids a budget (NOT $100k/year) for their college.  If they want something more expensive, they have to pay the difference themselves.  Skin in the game.
3) Let's assume that you're feeling generous, and offer a $50k/year subsidy to your kids' college, with a max of 4 years.  Let's deduct that $400k from your $3.7 million.
4) That leaves you with $3.3 million, with a paid-off house, in a LCOL area.  Per the 4% rule, that gives you $132k/year to spend, which is dramatically higher than what you expect.

GuitarStv

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2025, 01:57:14 PM »
400k per kid seems like an awful lot.  How are you arriving at that number?

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2025, 02:39:57 PM »
400k per kid seems like an awful lot.  How are you arriving at that number?

It's considering both college fees and their living expenses, flying back for holidays etc. It will be out of state tuition. I am estimating college fee to be 50k and rest as worst case living expenses. I agree my estimate is too high. Probably 70k / year should be good. What would be a good estimate?

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2025, 02:51:13 PM »
Here are a few thoughts:
1) Paying $100k per year for your kids' college is nuts. Wacko. Cuckoo. Insane. Stupid. Affluenza-inducing.  IMO, if your kids want to attend a school that expensive, they should be doing it on their own dime, not yours.  After all, if that hyper-expensive degree is going to be worth it, it better land them a super-lucrative job that will allow them to pay for it.
2) Seven years of paying ...let's call it an extra$4k/mo in rent (compared to a LCOL area) doesn't seem like a great tradeoff vs paying out-of-state tuition.  Have you done the math? ($4k/mo * 12 mo/year * 7 years = $336k)
3) That younger kid graduates HS in 7 years.  That means that you are literally planning the next decade of your life around the whims of an 11-year-old child.  I've seen several of my own kids pass through that age.  They can't be trusted to make themselves a healthy lunch, let alone decide where they're going to college.
4) It would seem that there are three competing priorities here:
---Retire now
---Continue living in your VHCOL area
---Pay for your kids' ludicrous college
You have enough saved up that you can choose two of those three and be guaranteed success.  Pick all three, and you're probably ok, but it's certainly not optimal.

Here's an alternative to your current plan:
1) Retire today, and move to a LCOL area immediately.  Spend $400k on a nice house, leaving you with $3.7million
2) Give your kids a budget (NOT $100k/year) for their college.  If they want something more expensive, they have to pay the difference themselves.  Skin in the game.
3) Let's assume that you're feeling generous, and offer a $50k/year subsidy to your kids' college, with a max of 4 years.  Let's deduct that $400k from your $3.7 million.
4) That leaves you with $3.3 million, with a paid-off house, in a LCOL area.  Per the 4% rule, that gives you $132k/year to spend, which is dramatically higher than what you expect.

Thanks for your reply. The 100k / year is college plus living expenses. I'm just estimating for the worst case. When we actually apply, we will be making sure to lower the overall number though.

For #2, it will be 5 additional years of paying as for next 2 years we still need to be in this VHCOL for my elder child. It is expensive as you estimated. I wouldn't stay in this VHCOL without working. When working, my salary will have a COL allowance part which will cover it. If I retire, it doesn't make sense to stick to this place unless my NW goes up way higher in next 2 years. But still I am not sure if I will be able to convince / force my second child (who will be 13 then) to move.

Thanks for your alternative plan. I'm kind of stuck to the current VHCOL area as my elder child is in her 10th grade. I won't be able to force the move on her now. She will hate me for life. I moved once last year already within my state. I won't be dishing out the 100k / year to them flat out though. They will be working in college part time and we will choose colleges considering the tuition too. I will probably make them take a loan too so that there's some pressure on them too.
 

Freedomin5

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2025, 03:31:23 PM »
Actually I would flip it around. Don’t use the money you set aside as the base amount and ask your kid to supplement with work. Instead, insist that your kids apply to all the internal and external scholarships that they qualify for, and they work during the summers. You help cover the difference up to a certain amount (not $400K, maybe $100K or something more reasonable). Whatever they don’t spent on tuition is theirs to keep upon graduation. This gives them a monetary incentive to develop frugal muscles and incentive to apply for scholarships/work while in school. Working while in school gives them job experience which makes them more competitive for full-time work post-graduation. Applying for (and being rejected for) scholarships helps them develop resilience in the face of failure. The amount they get upon graduation can give them a head start on buying property or investing for retirement.

In two years, when your older one graduates, your younger one will be 13. You can move to a lower COL area at the end of her Grade 8 year in time for her to start high school. That’s a nice transition point. Your younger one can learn how to be flexible and make new friends. She can also learn that she will survive without her old friends.

(As an expat who is moving my 11-year-old to a new city and country where she knows no one, I’ve done a lot of thinking and research on this topic. The transition year between elementary and middle school is a good time to move, as is the transition year between middle and high school.)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2025, 03:39:05 PM by Freedomin5 »

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2025, 04:06:33 PM »
Actually I would flip it around. Don’t use the money you set aside as the base amount and ask your kid to supplement with work. Instead, insist that your kids apply to all the internal and external scholarships that they qualify for, and they work during the summers. You help cover the difference up to a certain amount (not $400K, maybe $100K or something more reasonable). Whatever they don’t spent on tuition is theirs to keep upon graduation. This gives them a monetary incentive to develop frugal muscles and incentive to apply for scholarships/work while in school. Working while in school gives them job experience which makes them more competitive for full-time work post-graduation. Applying for (and being rejected for) scholarships helps them develop resilience in the face of failure. The amount they get upon graduation can give them a head start on buying property or investing for retirement.

In two years, when your older one graduates, your younger one will be 13. You can move to a lower COL area at the end of her Grade 8 year in time for her to start high school. That’s a nice transition point. Your younger one can learn how to be flexible and make new friends. She can also learn that she will survive without her old friends.

(As an expat who is moving my 11-year-old to a new city and country where she knows no one, I’ve done a lot of thinking and research on this topic. The transition year between elementary and middle school is a good time to move, as is the transition year between middle and high school.)

Thank you, good points. I am not a believer in spending too much for college. I would ideally prefer if my elder one stays in state and doesn't splurge on college. She's very studious (and frugal too) and thinks a great college would help her in future career. She says she'll work to cover her expenses in college. I still don't think spending a lot on college is going to be helpful

Mariposa

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2025, 04:28:47 PM »
$400k is the sticker price for private college in the US. For example:
https://www.amherst.edu/tuition

The majority of students don’t actually pay that, but if your income is >$250k, you’ll have a hard time getting grant money.

I assumed we wouldn’t qualify for grants, and we’re on track to have $300-400k saved in a 529 educational account by the time my kid is ready for college. But I agree that this is totally bananas, and I also question the value. My kid so far doesn’t even like school.

$100k is about the total cost for many public in-state universities in the US.

Minimum wage in the US is $7.25. It’s hard to see how a kid who works during college is going to make any sort of significant dent in the $400k price tag. If they worked 20 hours a week all year long, that would only be about $7k a year, or $28k over 4 years.


zolotiyeruki

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2025, 07:45:07 PM »
I maintain that $100k/yr for college is dumb.

Consider one hypothetical alternative: a couple years in trade school, breaking even, then earning $60k+ for the next two years. At the end of four years, the tradesman is ahead of the college grad by over half a million dollars.

How much more will your kids earn with that degree, and how many years will it take them to overcome that staggering head start?

Tom Bri

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2025, 08:54:49 PM »
My two daughters went to an excellent school and we paid a few thousand a year. They paid the rest of it by applying for every possible scholarship and grant. Due to good grades and good test scores they were offered a full ride-tuition free at a different good school. They then used that offer to negotiate additional scholarships from the school they wanted to go to.
College is NOT expensive. IF you do the legwork. Money is plentiful. People are looking for smart kids to give it to. Your kids should spend their entire senior year researching and applying for scholarships. It's an annoying process. That weeds out the kids who really are not interested.

Freedomin5

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2025, 09:42:40 PM »
Minimum wage in the US is $7.25. It’s hard to see how a kid who works during college is going to make any sort of significant dent in the $400k price tag. If they worked 20 hours a week all year long, that would only be about $7k a year, or $28k over 4 years.

That's assuming your kid works a minimum wage job. However, duyen's kid is studious and hardworking, and if she is a strong student, she can get a job tutoring or editing other students' papers. That will easily pay $20 -30 per hour. If she has good grades, she may also get a research assistantship position with one of her professors, which IIRC when I was in school many eons ago, paid around $10-15/hour.

The low pay is also why I encourage high schoolers to first focus on applying to any and all the scholarships for which they potentially qualify. There's no point working hard for money if you can get "free" money. Focus on the free money first, then supplement with part-time/summer work. The part-time/summer work is mainly to get related job experience.

But even if she had a minimum wage job, $7k/year is nothing to sneeze at. At the very least, she will have some job experience and soft skills, and she can cover her living expenses (with maybe some help from parents on rent).
« Last Edit: May 20, 2025, 09:50:13 PM by Freedomin5 »

Laura33

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2025, 01:51:42 PM »
I have a bit of a different view than the others who have posted so far.  I don't particularly care if you want to send your kid to an expensive college, or if you want to stay put until the youngest is out of school, or any of those other things.  What I do care about is the language you use to describe your choices.  You don't actually have to do any of that.  You are just choosing to, because those are your priorities.  And as long as you are willing to pay the costs of those choices (both the literal college bills and the figurative additional years of work), then go for it.  Your plan seems perfectly sound if that is what you want to do.

On college costs:  I have a different view here than most.  It was very important to me and my DH to be able to offer our kids the ability to go anywhere they could get in, because Reasons.  If that is your priority, for whatever Reasons of your own, then IMO, you are right to be preparing and saving for it. 

OTOH, if you are just assuming you need $400K for college because everyone around you is focused on finding the most competitive big-name schools and that's just what you do, then re-think that.  Kids who are good students can get some really good deals.  Less-popular out-of-state public universities will often provide grants to desirable students that make the OOS price comparable to in-state tuition; private schools outside of the top tier will often also offer very significant merit aid packages to students they really want (it's actually fairly common for private schools to offer merit aid that makes the overall cost comparable to in-state tuition).  If you are willing to broaden your search beyond the geographical areas and names that everyone around you focuses on, you can very often send your kid to a good school at a reasonable price. 

And of course the HS programs can help, too: our area has a dual-enrollment deal with the nearby community college, where kids can graduate HS with 1-2 years of college classes under their belt; even if you don't have that, however, your kids can/should take full advantage of AP/IB options to get college credit.  It only makes sense to take full advantage of whatever options your kids have.

The other thing to be thinking about is how much you want your kids doing paid jobs vs. how much you want to support them.  I started off as a pull-your-weight parent; after all, I worked in HS and on college vacations/summers, I did work-study in college, with all the character-building "fun" of cleaning the dorms from 7-11 on weekend mornings -- I had skin in the game, work ethic, etc. etc., character, etc.  That theory lasted until I was enmeshed in my own kids' college prep (everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth, right?).  When my kids hit HS, they were suddenly taking all these AP classes that didn't exist when I was in school (like, 2 years of calculus -- WTF?  I didn't even take calculus in HS!).  I realized that in our brave new world of college educations, it made a lot more financial sense for them to do well on those exams and get college credit than it was to spend their evenings working at the deli for $10/hr (my DS entered college 1-2 classes from sophomore status, and both kids were able to skip directly out of several early required classes for their majors). 

And then when they went to college, both chose schools where it was a flat tuition rate for up to XX credits.  Again, I realized that given the current tuition costs, it made more sense for them to spend their extra time taking extra classes than to spend that extra time time working at Starbucks or something.  Even when my DD got a job doing research for her professor, she had the choice of doing it for pay or for credit; the math said it was much better to do it for credit, so I instead paid her for her hours. 

And then there's internships.  When I was in school, I couldn't even think about internships, because I needed paid work.  Now, internships seem to be almost mandatory, and many are unpaid.  So if I wanted my kids to have the option of taking internships to get ahead in their fields, I couldn't also expect them to work a standard summer job. 

The point of all of this is to really think about what your priorities are, what you want for your kids and your family, and what tradeoffs you are willing to make to get there.  You don't actually have to stay put for 2 more years, or 7 more years; you don't have to live in a $6K/mo. apartment; you don't have to pay $400K per kid for college.  You could quit tomorrow, and your family would be just fine (even if you stayed in your current expensive apartment); it just means making tradeoffs elsewhere, like on college costs.  Or you can decide that all those things are important priorities for you, and that you are completely willing to keep working for a couple more years to cover those extra costs.  Only you can decide which choice is the best combination of pros and cons for your family.  Just please recognize that they are choices, and that when you choose the path, you choose the consequence -- and make sure that consequence is something you're willing to live with.

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2025, 01:05:52 PM »
I have a bit of a different view than the others who have posted so far.  I don't particularly care if you want to send your kid to an expensive college, or if you want to stay put until the youngest is out of school, or any of those other things.  What I do care about is the language you use to describe your choices.  You don't actually have to do any of that.  You are just choosing to, because those are your priorities.  And as long as you are willing to pay the costs of those choices (both the literal college bills and the figurative additional years of work), then go for it.  Your plan seems perfectly sound if that is what you want to do.

Thanks for your reply. It feels like I don't have to do these but I am not really sure about that. Ideally I want to stop working now. Have my elder child choose a low cost college option that's decent enough (versus going for the best college without considering costs). Have my younger one move to a LCOL with us and study there (either now or in two years).

If I retire now, I want to move from this expensive 6k apartment to something cheaper like in 3.5k. Stay put in current place for 2 years, then once my elder child goes to college, move to LCOL. All these three actions will result in resistance from family. My wife panics at my idea of retiring and she will also not like us moving to a 3.5k apartment. My elder child will resist the college part hard. Same with my younger child.

Also my work is kind of not stressful now so I can probably continue versus making everyone else suffer.


zolotiyeruki

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2025, 01:58:02 PM »
If I retire now, I want to move from this expensive 6k apartment to something cheaper like in 3.5k. Stay put in current place for 2 years, then once my elder child goes to college, move to LCOL. All these three actions will result in resistance from family. My wife panics at my idea of retiring and she will also not like us moving to a 3.5k apartment. My elder child will resist the college part hard. Same with my younger child.

Also my work is kind of not stressful now so I can probably continue versus making everyone else suffer.
Here, you've listed a few challenges with retiring now:
1) Your wife is resistant to the idea.  This isn't a money problem, this is an emotional concern.  The two of you need to sit down and drill down to her ACTUAL concern.  Is it about running out of money, or is there something deeper?
2) "My elder child will resist the college part hard." Um, who does your child think he/she is?  Your kid's choice of college is their choice, of course, but it is not up to him/her to dictate that YOU will pay for it.  From this statement, it sounds to me like the kid feels entitled to force you to give up years of your life so they can go to the fancy-pants school.

"versus making everyone else suffer" Can you please elaborate on the perceived suffering?  If it's concerns on your wife's part about moving to a less-glamorous apartment, then the two of you need to have a discussion about what exactly would be lost in that transition.  If it's your kid not getting a fully-paid-for-by-mom-and-dad college degree at a fancy pants private university, that's not suffering, that's simply "not getting spoiled as much as I expected."  IMO, that's on the level of "I'm mad at my parents because I got a Lexus for my birthday instead of a Porsche."

I think a major reason to retire now is to allow you to move to a LCOL area.  Sure, saving $2,500/mo is great, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what you're planning to spend on your children's college.

(Edited for formatting)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2025, 08:14:22 AM by zolotiyeruki »

Laura33

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2025, 04:17:53 PM »
It feels like I don't have to do these but I am not really sure about that. Ideally I want to stop working now. Have my elder child choose a low cost college option that's decent enough (versus going for the best college without considering costs). Have my younger one move to a LCOL with us and study there (either now or in two years).

If I retire now, I want to move from this expensive 6k apartment to something cheaper like in 3.5k. Stay put in current place for 2 years, then once my elder child goes to college, move to LCOL. All these three actions will result in resistance from family. My wife panics at my idea of retiring and she will also not like us moving to a 3.5k apartment. My elder child will resist the college part hard. Same with my younger child.

Also my work is kind of not stressful now so I can probably continue versus making everyone else suffer.

Your first sentence actually says it all.  You do not have to do all of this.  Period, end of story.

Now, of course, there are consequences to that kind of decision.  You may be willing to keep working to avoid those consequences.  But you see what I mean about how words matter?  Saying "I have to keep doing this, or I'll destroy their lives" is a completely different thing than saying "This isn't great, but it's the best compromise for now."

I have to admit, I do have a fairly knee-jerk reaction to family members insisting that another member continue to do XYZ when they're not the ones dealing with the daily hardships.  That said, you also need to remember that they are just doing what you have taught them to do.  You and your wife agreed to embark on this path however many years ago, and so of course she expects that path to continue; your kids have been raised with the expectation that they can go to any college they want regardless of costs, so of course they will be upset if now you put conditions on it.

But a relationship -- a family -- works only so long as it meets the needs of all of its members.  And if your chosen path no longer works for you -- if the daily struggle and time and pressure is wearing you down -- then you have every right to make a change.  And your wife needs to support you in that.  I mean, your kids are kids, they're going to whine about anything and everything, whether it's legitimate or not, and your only job there is to help them to handle any disappointment.  But your wife is supposed to be a partner who is working together with you toward your joint goal.  And if that original goal no longer fits who you are today, then the two of you need to work together to figure out a new goal and a new plan that works for everyone.

Note the "together" part of this.  This is not something you simply proclaim and execute and expect everyone to be happy about or deal with.  It is also not something that happens quickly, because people need time to process those kinds of big changes and think through how various options will work.  But what that means is that it is time to start having those conversations with your wife -- preferably not on a Friday night when you're both exhausted from the week.  Find a mellow afternoon/evening, send the kids to do something else, crack open a bottle of wine, and start talking. 

And that "talking" needs to be about feelings, not just money.  She needs to understand the effect of your current plan on you, how worn down you're feeling, how unsatisfying the lifestyle has become, how you want more time with her and the kids and less external stress (it's not just about escaping XYZ; it is also about having more time/energy for them, because they are so important to you).  And you need to hear her fears, too, without judgment or trying to jump in and solve the problem.  Because I guarantee it's not about "I want to be able to go shopping whenever I want" -- it's what that ability means to her.* 

Once you have opened the lines of communications about goals and desires and fears, then you can start discussing options.  At first, this really needs to be brainstorming -- you need to throw out completely crazy ideas just to remind yourself that there are all of these other lives you can live and things you can do if you want to.  Sell up, move to Tibet, take up yak-herding?  That's doable.  What are the crazy dreams each of you had as kids that you've given up to get where you are now?  What is she missing in her life, and what would it take to give her more of that? 

Of course, every wild idea comes with major tradeoffs.  The real goal of all of this is to figure out what priorities are most important to the two of you, and what tradeoffs you are and are not willing to accept to achieve them.  Come up with a tentative compromise -- say, stay put for 2 years until oldest graduates, then move to another area.  Once you come up with the tentative idea, live with that idea a little bit.  Start looking at other areas of the country you might like to live in.  Look at real estate, schools, churches, activities -- whatever the things are that matter to you.  Maybe take a vacation to some of the top spots.  Meanwhile, you can be thinking about what you want to do once you walk away from the big job -- do you want to retire fully?  Get another job, and if so, what?  Volunteer in a particular area?  Again, this is something you research to start to build up a vision of what your realistic possibilities are in whatever location you end up choosing -- because that also helps determine whether that location is the right one. 

When you get to the point where you have a fairly good idea of the outlines of a plan, start talking to your kids about it.  They have the right to know if you are going to make changes that affect their future options and plans.  It's a little late to do a complete about-face with the older (you can if you have to, but yanking the rug out from under a kid's feet right when they're going to need to start making that decision is a dick move that will leave a lot of hard feelings), but with two years left, you can help direct the search to more cost-effective options -- e.g., research some of the lower-tier schools that may offer good scholarships, look for public institutions that are not quite as popular but have good programs in your kid's area of interest.  And you have all the time in the world for the youngest to adapt to whatever changes you make.  Yes, even if that is moving while they're still in school.  I personally wouldn't yank my kid out of HS if they love it unless I had to, but there's nothing at all wrong with moving, say, between MS and HS -- there's still plenty of time to make friends and get involved in things. 

In all of this, have a lot of patience and reasonable expectations.  No one is going to be happy to find out that you want to change their world.  But you deserve to be happy too.  And if you can hear their fears, be empathetic to what the changes will demand from them, and be willing to work with them to find some solution that is a compromise for everyone, you guys can get through this as a family and even wind up stronger in the end. 

*Example:  I grew up poor.  When I got a good job and could afford to go to the grocery store and not stick to a strict list, I was truly joyful -- it was such a powerful moment, to be standing in the aisle and realize I could buy natural peanut butter if I wanted to that I remember it clearly over thirty years later.  So for me, knowing that I had enough "extra" in my savings so I'd never have to be that rigid on my groceries ever again was a very important thing, because it makes me feel both safe and successful.  See what I mean?  It's not about the peanut butter.

strongmag

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2025, 07:52:06 AM »
@Laura33 those are some amazing responses. A big chunk of the population lives with the idea of what they "should" or "have to" do and lets those feelings crowd out what they "could" do. The FI community is a great place to start to question some of those assumptions because if you pursue early retirement you're going against some of those ingrained ideas.

@duyen, this line of reasoning could be a good intro into questioning your own assumptions and then coming up with new ideas for your future your wife and family. If we ditch the ingrained idea that we have to work until a "standard" retirement age, then what do we gain? If we ditch the idea that we have to pay $400k per child for college, what do we gain? etc. etc.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2025, 10:07:52 AM »
This is a classic dilemma we see on this board for people living in HCOL/VHCOL areas: being a multi-millionaire who cannot retire. As their costs continue to escalate, their FIRE number keeps going up and up faster than they can save.

I often point out the eject button as an option for such situations, and am often told that living in Missouri or Kentucky or Nebraska or Arkansas is ewww gross (they've never been there, but heard). OK, but is it a lifelong financial treadmill? Can you buy an affordable home there and retire to actually spend time with family? Is the status quo all that great if it requires workaholism and neglect of family?

You have hope though @duyen because you can see through the trap and have your eye on an escape. The "problem" is you've cultivated family and friend ties. Yes, this is another element of the HCOL trap. The longer you stay, the harder it is to leave. The more functional you are as a social being and caring family-oriented contributor, the harder it is to uproot everyone. And the older the kids get, the more rooted and better at pleading they become.

As noted above, high school is a good point to make a break. Look into how your school system works. If multiple middle schools consolidate into the high school, then it's likely the kid won't often be in any classes/lunch shifts with their friends anyway. That's how it was for me!

And if you do make the break for the LCOL life, step 1 would be to immediately re-root the family with new local friends. You can do this through volunteering at PTA or nonprofits, putting the kids into sports teams, joining groups on meetup.com, and choosing a walkable community in the first place. The opposite of doing all these important things would be withdraw into screen time, obsessively working on the house, or sinking into solo hobbies. Take the opposite path and you'll feel the alienation that the whole family fears.

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2025, 12:09:13 PM »
....
2) "My elder child will resist the college part hard." Um, who does your child think he/she is?  Your kid's choice of college is their choice, of course, but it is not up to him/her to dictate that YOU will pay for it.  From this statement, it sounds to me like the kid feels entitled to force you to give up years of your life so they can go to the fancy-pants school.
....

I agree on the feeling entitled part. My elder one changed a lot once in teens, especially the last 2 years. She definitely has a lot of good qualities. She is hardworking, very studious and wants to be successful, completely self-reliant. But she is also very inflexible and finds it hard to compromise which makes it harder for her to be in a group situation getting along with others. Making a compromise at home (trying out a new cuisine, doing things she doesn't like for family time etc) is a no for her and if others force her, she will be angry and fight back. I was and am also like this so I understand and we let her be in her room and not force her to do things she doesn't like. She already has enough stress in school.

The part that I don't like is this feeling entitled which is especially happening in the last 2 years. She doesn't ask for much but occasionally will make some difficult requests (like recently she wanted us to visit a place during summer and I said no as the ticket prices are expensive) and if we don't agree she will sulk and become angry. The college thing is kind of in that zone. I understand she's acting entitled but also don't want to spoil my relationship with her. I'm denying things I cannot do but also being sensitive to the fact that she's a teenager (and this is not her usual behavior).

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2025, 12:14:22 PM »
....
But a relationship -- a family -- works only so long as it meets the needs of all of its members. 
....

Note the "together" part of this.  This is not something you simply proclaim and execute and expect everyone to be happy about or deal with.  It is also not something that happens quickly, because people need time to process those kinds of big changes and think through how various options will work. 
....

When you get to the point where you have a fairly good idea of the outlines of a plan, start talking to your kids about it.  They have the right to know if you are going to make changes that affect their future options and plans.  It's a little late to do a complete about-face with the older (you can if you have to, but yanking the rug out from under a kid's feet right when they're going to need to start making that decision is a dick move that will leave a lot of hard feelings), ....

In all of this, have a lot of patience and reasonable expectations.  No one is going to be happy to find out that you want to change their world.  But you deserve to be happy too.  .....

Thanks Laura, this is an impressive post. I definitely need to learn how to prioritize and communicate my needs. I have always been a provider and think from that view point first by default.

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2025, 12:17:46 PM »
This is a classic dilemma we see on this board for people living in HCOL/VHCOL areas: being a multi-millionaire who cannot retire. As their costs continue to escalate, their FIRE number keeps going up and up faster than they can save.

I often point out the eject button as an option for such situations, and am often told that living in Missouri or Kentucky or Nebraska or Arkansas is ewww gross (they've never been there, but heard). OK, but is it a lifelong financial treadmill? Can you buy an affordable home there and retire to actually spend time with family? Is the status quo all that great if it requires workaholism and neglect of family?

You have hope though @duyen because you can see through the trap and have your eye on an escape. The "problem" is you've cultivated family and friend ties. Yes, this is another element of the HCOL trap. The longer you stay, the harder it is to leave. The more functional you are as a social being and caring family-oriented contributor, the harder it is to uproot everyone. And the older the kids get, the more rooted and better at pleading they become.

As noted above, high school is a good point to make a break. Look into how your school system works. If multiple middle schools consolidate into the high school, then it's likely the kid won't often be in any classes/lunch shifts with their friends anyway. That's how it was for me!

And if you do make the break for the LCOL life, step 1 would be to immediately re-root the family with new local friends. You can do this through volunteering at PTA or nonprofits, putting the kids into sports teams, joining groups on meetup.com, and choosing a walkable community in the first place. The opposite of doing all these important things would be withdraw into screen time, obsessively working on the house, or sinking into solo hobbies. Take the opposite path and you'll feel the alienation that the whole family fears.

Thanks for your reply. Very new and useful points there in bold.

Weisass

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2025, 12:21:50 PM »
....
2) "My elder child will resist the college part hard." Um, who does your child think he/she is?  Your kid's choice of college is their choice, of course, but it is not up to him/her to dictate that YOU will pay for it.  From this statement, it sounds to me like the kid feels entitled to force you to give up years of your life so they can go to the fancy-pants school.
....

I agree on the feeling entitled part. My elder one changed a lot once in teens, especially the last 2 years. She definitely has a lot of good qualities. She is hardworking, very studious and wants to be successful, completely self-reliant. But she is also very inflexible and finds it hard to compromise which makes it harder for her to be in a group situation getting along with others. Making a compromise at home (trying out a new cuisine, doing things she doesn't like for family time etc) is a no for her and if others force her, she will be angry and fight back. I was and am also like this so I understand and we let her be in her room and not force her to do things she doesn't like. She already has enough stress in school.

The part that I don't like is this feeling entitled which is especially happening in the last 2 years. She doesn't ask for much but occasionally will make some difficult requests (like recently she wanted us to visit a place during summer and I said no as the ticket prices are expensive) and if we don't agree she will sulk and become angry. The college thing is kind of in that zone. I understand she's acting entitled but also don't want to spoil my relationship with her. I'm denying things I cannot do but also being sensitive to the fact that she's a teenager (and this is not her usual behavior).
I, too, have an inflexible teen who struggles to try new things. You are not saving your future relationship by letting them get what they want all the time. Life out in the world doesn’t care if they don’t like something. Teaching them to experience discomfort in the comfort of your home is a life skill that may actually save your future relationship with your kid. Boundaries aren’t the problem, I promise.

Dee18

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2025, 03:54:35 PM »
One thing to keep in mind is that if you wait until the kids are out of the house and then move to a place they are not familiar with, they may never view it as "home."  I have friends who moved from Philly to San Diego  when their daughters were  going into Freshman and Junior years of high school.  Both girls were resistant but they made friends and that is home to them now. And now with grandkids in the picture my friends are especially glad they didn't wait to move, which they had considered. 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2025, 07:49:29 AM by Dee18 »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2025, 06:08:41 AM »
I, too, have an inflexible teen who struggles to try new things. You are not saving your future relationship by letting them get what they want all the time. Life out in the world doesn’t care if they don’t like something. Teaching them to experience discomfort in the comfort of your home is a life skill that may actually save your future relationship with your kid. Boundaries aren’t the problem, I promise.
There's a term for this: Valuable discomfort.  Learning to handle discomfort appropriately is a tremendously valuable life skill, and if your kids can learn it now, before being on their own, it'll will serve them well.  It helps keep life in perspective and develop healthy expectations and emotional resiliency.

Related MMM article: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/02/what-is-stoicism-and-how-can-it-turn-your-life-to-solid-gold/

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2025, 02:17:05 PM »
There's a term for this: Valuable discomfort.  Learning to handle discomfort appropriately is a tremendously valuable life skill, and if your kids can learn it now, before being on their own, it'll will serve them well.  It helps keep life in perspective and develop healthy expectations and emotional resiliency.

Related MMM article: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/02/what-is-stoicism-and-how-can-it-turn-your-life-to-solid-gold/

Thanks, Just went with my daughter and got the book "A guide to good life"

J.P. MoreGains

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2025, 06:47:35 PM »
Is college really worth that much money especially if you leave it invested / invest it in your kids names over decades?

Why not take that 400k and leave it invested and that alone could retire your kids decades in the future when they need it?

I think that is way more valuable than the college "experience" they want.

I worked in higher ed and I really don't think college is worth the cost. I could go on forever about this... at the college I worked at only 30% of the budget went to instruction. So what are you really paying for?


JupiterGreen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2025, 07:54:19 AM »
This is a classic dilemma we see on this board for people living in HCOL/VHCOL areas: being a multi-millionaire who cannot retire. As their costs continue to escalate, their FIRE number keeps going up and up faster than they can save.

I often point out the eject button as an option for such situations, and am often told that living in Missouri or Kentucky or Nebraska or Arkansas is ewww gross (they've never been there, but heard). OK, but is it a lifelong financial treadmill? Can you buy an affordable home there and retire to actually spend time with family? Is the status quo all that great if it requires workaholism and neglect of family?

You have hope though @duyen because you can see through the trap and have your eye on an escape. The "problem" is you've cultivated family and friend ties. Yes, this is another element of the HCOL trap. The longer you stay, the harder it is to leave. The more functional you are as a social being and caring family-oriented contributor, the harder it is to uproot everyone. And the older the kids get, the more rooted and better at pleading they become.

As noted above, high school is a good point to make a break. Look into how your school system works. If multiple middle schools consolidate into the high school, then it's likely the kid won't often be in any classes/lunch shifts with their friends anyway. That's how it was for me!

And if you do make the break for the LCOL life, step 1 would be to immediately re-root the family with new local friends. You can do this through volunteering at PTA or nonprofits, putting the kids into sports teams, joining groups on meetup.com, and choosing a walkable community in the first place. The opposite of doing all these important things would be withdraw into screen time, obsessively working on the house, or sinking into solo hobbies. Take the opposite path and you'll feel the alienation that the whole family fears.

I have lived in a LCOL area like the ones you suggested, not worth it at all IMO. I enjoy reading your comments @ChpBstrd just happen to disagree with this idea anytime it comes up here. I would encourage a downgrade to MCOL area, but the LCOL areas are low for a reason, mediums tend to be a little further from the best amenities but doable. And if you are used to HCOL a LCOL is a MAJOR culture shock (I've commented about our experiences here before). Live in a HCOL state now, so happy. Shit gets done, 'tis glorious.

As for the college question, there are only a few degrees where the name of the college matters, in those cases if your kids get in (i.e. Harvard Law) it is probably worth paying for. Otherwise just send them to the state school in a HCOL or MCOL state, these tend to be fantastic schools.

Lastly, @Laura comments are fantastic as usual. In your post it sounds like you are more concerned with what you can do for others and forsaking yourself. I am married to an "acts of service" person, maybe that is you. It seems act of service people don't always have a good read on their own needs (and sometimes worth). Occasionally a good idea to check in to see if your needs are being met in your relationships and family dynamic. You deserve to feel stable and be happy too.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2025, 07:57:20 AM »
This is all so fascinating to me.

I had always wanted to FIRE and at 35 had a number like $1.5M in my head but blew threw that number while running a business that had a few great years.  My NW is about $5M now.

We live in a nice medium COL area in an older home we purchased for $160k about 20 years ago, worth about $400k today. paid that off quickly.  Never really cared to move.

With the "extra" money built 529s for my 3 kids with the cost of tuition/dorm/mealplan for 4 years at the flagship state U, which is a crazy $140k now.  I told each kid when they started looking at schools this money is theres and is the money they will get from me, and at college gradaution I will buy them a new car (to keep them debt free, as cars today you can drive for 12 years at least and by then hopefully they could pay cash) in exchange for their word they will stay debt free (except for a mortgage).  THis was all a choice I made with the thought that, I'm making money so easy right now I'll grit my teeth to do this for them to give them something amazing (as opposed to any thought this was something I was "responsible" for, or that they would "expect" of me, etc)

My oldest has graduated, has the car, and $50k still left in the 529.  He's considering a masters that will cost about that remaining amount or if he's done.  Most of his friends constantly freak out about their student loans (understandable) so he is very grateful.  Middle kid is in college now, very well may use up her funds.  She has also mentioned how freaked out her friends are about future loans, as her heart is in a fairly low paying career.

My spouse loves to spend money....on rental property.  I prefer stocks (as an etf never calls you about a busted pipe), but either way its not about spending.  She loves traveling and about 5 years ago on a few week trip to Europe I explained how this was something we could easily afford every year.  We travel pretty frugally, and still invite all the kids and usually another family member.

My spouse did worry about me early retiring, but she was just worried I was so used to working all the time I wouldn't know what to do with myself....and she wasn't wrong.   I still work today about 15-20 hrs/wk for the company I sold my business to, and I think its the correct amount of "stress" and aggravation and hours for me know at 53.  The business was something I was proud of...but the stress of it all (every day felt like I could lose it all...) and the 60-70 hours a week were not sustainable.  We live off of what the part time gig pays me which is nice and something I'll never find after this gig ends.

With some of the extra funds I bought a house on water for my dad to live in that brings him a lot of joy and that other family members love to go stay at as company. 

Even though most of our friends are middle income, a lot of my "peers" (especially now at this part time job) make a ton of money and spend it.... and are constantly stressed about money.  Just watched the latest WHite Lotus and that dad character really seemed to sum it up, his way out was of course exagggerated....but I think they all feel this intense expectation to earn more and keep earning for everyone in their family that "needs" this lifestyle.

The OP is of course a hundred times better off financially than these peers, but that pressure to provide at such a high level does seems there.  And I think providing more can be a great and satisfying goal, but the feelings around it should all be positive ones of how lucky one is to be in this position to chose at all.

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2025, 08:30:27 AM »
Is college really worth that much money especially if you leave it invested / invest it in your kids names over decades?

Why not take that 400k and leave it invested and that alone could retire your kids decades in the future when they need it?

I think that is way more valuable than the college "experience" they want.

I worked in higher ed and I really don't think college is worth the cost. I could go on forever about this... at the college I worked at only 30% of the budget went to instruction. So what are you really paying for?

I completely agree with you. I would rather want my kids to ease up on college fees (get a decent education cheap) and save and invest remaining instead. Hopefully my younger one will listen to me.

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2025, 08:34:16 AM »

I have lived in a LCOL area like the ones you suggested, not worth it at all IMO. I enjoy reading your comments @ChpBstrd just happen to disagree with this idea anytime it comes up here. I would encourage a downgrade to MCOL area, but the LCOL areas are low for a reason, mediums tend to be a little further from the best amenities but doable. And if you are used to HCOL a LCOL is a MAJOR culture shock (I've commented about our experiences here before). Live in a HCOL state now, so happy. Shit gets done, 'tis glorious.

As for the college question, there are only a few degrees where the name of the college matters, in those cases if your kids get in (i.e. Harvard Law) it is probably worth paying for. Otherwise just send them to the state school in a HCOL or MCOL state, these tend to be fantastic schools.

Lastly, @Laura comments are fantastic as usual. In your post it sounds like you are more concerned with what you can do for others and forsaking yourself. I am married to an "acts of service" person, maybe that is you. It seems act of service people don't always have a good read on their own needs (and sometimes worth). Occasionally a good idea to check in to see if your needs are being met in your relationships and family dynamic. You deserve to feel stable and be happy too.

Thanks for your post. Especially warning about the HCOL to LCOL culture shock. I happen to be a LCOL place this weekend and am actually wondering about that as well. Renting helps me to quickly pivot if things go south with such a move.

La Colibri

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2025, 09:34:16 AM »

I have lived in a LCOL area like the ones you suggested, not worth it at all IMO. I enjoy reading your comments @ChpBstrd just happen to disagree with this idea anytime it comes up here. I would encourage a downgrade to MCOL area, but the LCOL areas are low for a reason, mediums tend to be a little further from the best amenities but doable. And if you are used to HCOL a LCOL is a MAJOR culture shock (I've commented about our experiences here before). Live in a HCOL state now, so happy. Shit gets done, 'tis glorious.

As for the college question, there are only a few degrees where the name of the college matters, in those cases if your kids get in (i.e. Harvard Law) it is probably worth paying for. Otherwise just send them to the state school in a HCOL or MCOL state, these tend to be fantastic schools.

Lastly, @Laura comments are fantastic as usual. In your post it sounds like you are more concerned with what you can do for others and forsaking yourself. I am married to an "acts of service" person, maybe that is you. It seems act of service people don't always have a good read on their own needs (and sometimes worth). Occasionally a good idea to check in to see if your needs are being met in your relationships and family dynamic. You deserve to feel stable and be happy too.

Thanks for your post. Especially warning about the HCOL to LCOL culture shock. I happen to be a LCOL place this weekend and am actually wondering about that as well. Renting helps me to quickly pivot if things go south with such a move.

I wonder if you have the option to move from your VHCOL to a nearby neighborhood that have lower cost of rent as I am guessing your VHCOL is tied to work and school district.  Once commute or school is out of question, that might open up some other possibilities.

I am considering something similar but on a smaller scale but it's also on these parameters

- work for more years (in your case 2 more years, YOU WANT THIS)
- cover all college expenses ( in your case 400k * 2, Your elder child want this)
- live in VHCOL area vs LCOL (in your case 14k vs 6k, Your wife want this)

IMO, I will avoid giving the eldest child significantly more for an out of state tuition and moving the younger to LCOL.  Freedom's suggestion is great, want out of state dream school, earn it via scholarship and tutor for next dreamer for dream school. 

I felt for you when you said the 'entitled teenager anger syndrome'.  They were such sweet babies that suddenly turning into slamming doors people :)
Edited:after seeing Laura's comment, not too rush to conclusions;  I don't mean in any negative way.  Parenting is so challenging 

Thanks for writing this case study and I liked the comments that give me more fruit for thoughts as well.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2025, 03:13:40 PM by La Colibri »

Laura33

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2025, 09:52:57 AM »
I, too, have an inflexible teen who struggles to try new things. You are not saving your future relationship by letting them get what they want all the time. Life out in the world doesn’t care if they don’t like something. Teaching them to experience discomfort in the comfort of your home is a life skill that may actually save your future relationship with your kid. Boundaries aren’t the problem, I promise.
There's a term for this: Valuable discomfort.  Learning to handle discomfort appropriately is a tremendously valuable life skill, and if your kids can learn it now, before being on their own, it'll will serve them well.  It helps keep life in perspective and develop healthy expectations and emotional resiliency.

Related MMM article: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/02/what-is-stoicism-and-how-can-it-turn-your-life-to-solid-gold/

I want to second this.  Remember this one thing:  you are not raising kids -- you are raising adults.  Your job is to help your kid get to the place so that when they hit 18, they can function competently in the world without you there. 

Every kid has challenges.  Your job is to help each kid understand her own personality quirks and learn how to manage them herself.  It's not something she can do herself -- if she could, she'd have done it already (no one actually wants to struggle with stuff like that, with being different and not getting along with people at school and stuff).  It's worth the time you and she can put in to help her figure out how to manage this aspect of herself.

Also:  I understand the "entitled twit" trigger that goes off in your head, but please try not to see it like that.  Being spoiled and entitled is very different than than having a rigid, change-averse personality, and they require very different responses.  Being spoiled is a learned behavior that can be unlearned; a fundamental personality trait, OTOH, can only be managed, not completely changed.  And I can tell you from personal experience that there is nothing more stressful to a kid than being blamed for something that is beyond their control.  So if you see/treat your kid as "entitled" when she's really rigid/change-averse, she will feel angry, shamed, hurt, anxious, etc. -- none of which is remotely helpful to either her or your relationship.* 

So if you really want to help her with this (and I think you do), try very hard to avoid any value judgments.  Help her acknowledge and define this aspect of her personality -- what is the trigger, what does she feel, why does she think she reacts this way?  How does she feel after, how does she think her behavior makes others feel, what does she think she can do when she gets that feeling to help relieve the stress/desire to lash out, etc. etc. etc.  It may be worthwhile to start with a therapist, both because it's sometimes easier to talk to a third person, and because a therapist will help her develop words to put to her feelings and have ideas to help her manage them.


*This reminds me in a small way of when my DS was maybe 6-7 and went to the beach with my mom for a weekend.  My mom is a planner, and they spent the entire drive down talking about all the things they wanted to do and planning out a schedule for what to do when.  Then it rained, and they couldn't go to the beach when the wanted to -- and my DS completely lost his shit and was a total PITA for the rest of the weekend.  My mom could not figure out why her sweet, adorable, marshmallow of a grandson had turned into this sulky asshole of a kid who was not happy with anything. I had to explain:  when he expects A and gets B, it throws him for a loop.  The way you handle that is to make sure your plan has flexibility in case something goes wrong -- e.g., "we'll go to the beach Saturday after breakfast, unless it rains, in which case we'll figure out something else fun to do."  He was actually 100% fine not knowing whether he was going to the beach Saturday in the first place -- but if you told him he was going, boy, you'd better get him there, even if there's a freaking hurricane.  ;-)

BigThief

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2025, 11:18:15 AM »
Can you share some background on how you achieved such an incredibly strong financial position? You're in your mid-40s spending 168k (taxes included?) a year on a single income of 216k. I’m just not seeing how that savings rate leads to +4M in assets, ~3M of which are in non-tax sheltered.

Was your partner a higher earner who has since retired? Did you downshift to take a job that would cover expenses? Did you receive an inheritance? Did you sell a company or have a buy-out? Did you have excellent investment returns?

I just think more information would be helpful to give you feedback. But maybe this is none of my business.

Edit: Looking through your post history it seems you’ve invested aggressively in tech indexes and used leveraged. Have you de-risked yet? I would move into broad diversified index funds before retiring, but that’s just my opinion.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2025, 11:30:15 AM by BigThief »

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2025, 11:01:57 AM »
Can you share some background on how you achieved such an incredibly strong financial position? You're in your mid-40s spending 168k (taxes included?) a year on a single income of 216k. I’m just not seeing how that savings rate leads to +4M in assets, ~3M of which are in non-tax sheltered.

Was your partner a higher earner who has since retired? Did you downshift to take a job that would cover expenses? Did you receive an inheritance? Did you sell a company or have a buy-out? Did you have excellent investment returns?

I just think more information would be helpful to give you feedback. But maybe this is none of my business.

Edit: Looking through your post history it seems you’ve invested aggressively in tech indexes and used leveraged. Have you de-risked yet? I would move into broad diversified index funds before retiring, but that’s just my opinion.

You are right, I invested in tech indexes and had some of my portfolio in leveraged ETFs. I also worked multiple jobs for few years which helped. I am still holding about 25% in leveraged ETFs and plan to sell them once market goes a bit above its previous ATH. I lost money in options and crypto and also being over leveraged during 2022 meltdown. But I held through the leveraged ETFs during the market recovery which helped.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2025, 11:08:10 AM by duyen »

duyen

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Re: Maybe FI but can I retire yet?
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2025, 11:07:35 AM »

I want to second this.  Remember this one thing:  you are not raising kids -- you are raising adults. 
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Every kid has challenges.  Your job is to help each kid understand her own personality quirks and learn how to manage them herself. It's not something she can do herself -- if she could, she'd have done it already (no one actually wants to struggle with stuff like that, with being different and not getting along with people at school and stuff).  It's worth the time you and she can put in to help her figure out how to manage this aspect of herself.

Also:  I understand the "entitled twit" trigger that goes off in your head, but please try not to see it like that.  Being spoiled and entitled is very different than than having a rigid, change-averse personality, and they require very different responses.  Being spoiled is a learned behavior that can be unlearned; a fundamental personality trait, OTOH, can only be managed, not completely changed
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So if you really want to help her with this (and I think you do), try very hard to avoid any value judgments.  Help her acknowledge and define this aspect of her personality -- what is the trigger, what does she feel, why does she think she reacts this way?  How does she feel after, how does she think her behavior makes others feel, what does she think she can do when she gets that feeling to help relieve the stress/desire to lash out, etc. etc. etc.  It may be worthwhile to start with a therapist, both because it's sometimes easier to talk to a third person, and because a therapist will help her develop words to put to her feelings and have ideas to help her manage them.
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Thanks Laura, as usual, useful points there.