Author Topic: Looking for guidance - Newbie  (Read 3379 times)

MangoAtPlay

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Looking for guidance - Newbie
« on: March 24, 2017, 07:29:41 PM »
Hi Everyone -

  We’re new to MMM but have been doing some work on our own prior to joining the forums.  I read the template for the case study but it was really overwhelming and I didn’t understand most of it!  Hopefully I’ve included everything – if not just let me know and I’ll add it. 
  We’re proud to say we have no car debt or school loan debt.  We decided to track all our expenses this year because we feel we don’t spend much money on frivolous things but always felt broke.  So far, this exercise has really made us aware of how little things add up.
  Thanks for taking the time to evaluate our progress and we welcome your advice and thoughts about our situation!

Our financial goals are:
1.   Pay off Visa debt ($4,450)
2.   Grow savings to $20,000+ (for EF, improvements to rental home, and eventual car replacement)
3.   Pay off rental house by making extra payments
4.   Save money for land
5.   Build home
6.   Rent out current primary residence part of the year for extra income

Some changes we are currently working towards:
1.   Finding work closer to home for Income Earner #2 to reduce commute time/expense.
2.   Increase in side work for Income Earner #1 which should equal about $7,000/year

Life Situation: Married, 2 income earners both age 38, no kids.

Gross Salary/Wages:
Income 1: $52,826/year 2016  (this week just received raise to $60k/year)
Income 2: $27,693/year 2016

Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions:
Income 1: TRS: $3,167/year
                Medical Plan: $784/year
                Dental Plan:  $404/year
                Vision Plan: $188/year
(wasn’t sure where to put this:  403b matched:  $2,639/year 2016
                                               403b unmatched:  $355/year 2016)

Income 2:  Medical Plan: $650/year


Other Income:
Additional income:  $4,000/year 

Rental Income, Actual Expenses, and Depreciation:
1 rental property:  $18,000/year
Expenses for property:  $500/year (taxes and insurance listed below)

Taxes:
Income 1: Federal:  $4,424/year
                Social Security:  $3,189/year
                Medicare:  $746/year
                State:  $2,211/year
                City:  $514/year

Income 2:  Federal:  $2,175/year
                  Social Security:  $1,716/year
                  Medicare:  $401/year
                  State:  $731/year
                  City:  $0/year

Current expenses:  In 2017 we’re tracking every expense and receipt so our expenses listed on this post are just from the first 2 months of this year. 

Mortgage:  $2,000/month (actual payment is $970 but we are paying rental house off early for the psychological benefit)
Food:  $600/month
Gas:  $320/month
Electric:  $240/month
Water:  $40/month
Cable/Internet/Netflix:  $100/month
Cell Phones:  $132/month
Home/Yard misc.:  $200/month
Gym:  $55/month (will be cancelling in June when contract allows)
Auto Insurance:  $87/month
Life Insurance:  $32/month
Clothing/Personal:  $100/month 
Entertainment:  $150/month (classes, music, etc).
Pets:  $150/month (medicine, special food)
Charity:  $37/month
Misc. expenses:  $100/month
Property taxes & insurance for 2 homes:  $5,000/year (paid in full once per year)
Car maintenance:  $1,000/year
Work Expenses:  $200/year (fees work doesn’t pay for)
Travel:  $2,000/year

Assets:
Primary Home:  valued at $400,000
Rental Home:  valued at $208,000
2 cars:  valued at $10,000
403b:  $27,183
TRS:  $3,924
4 IRAs:  $22,402
Roth IRA:  $6,635
Putnam Investments:  $35,127
Savings Bonds:  $943
Emergency Fund in savings account:  $3,100
Emergency Cash:  $350
TOTAL:  $717,664

Liabilities:
Rental property mortgage:  $56,000 left as of 1/1/2017 at 3.5%.
Credit Card debt:  $4,450
TOTAL:  $60,450

Specific Question(s):
  We’re embarrassed to say we don’t really understand retirement planning but are eager to learn.  When we were making better money we bought some IRAs and investments, but never really understood them.  We’re also not clear on benefits of IRAs or CDs, etc. and we don’t understand the stock market either.  Some of the terms used here on the forums are confusing like living on 4%?  How does that work???  Any info would be great and please don’t laugh!

  We’re working on budget friendly, healthy meals.  Also getting insulation for the attic in our older primary home.  Any tips are appreciated! ☺

MDM

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2017, 07:40:24 PM »
I read the template for the case study but it was really overwhelming and I didn’t understand most of it!
MangoAtPlay, welcome to the forum.

Your perspective as someone seeing the template for the first time is valuable.  Would you mind starting another thread with questions about the parts you didn't understand?  That way we might be able to improve it for those who come after you.

MDM

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2017, 07:49:59 PM »
We’re embarrassed to say we don’t really understand retirement planning but are eager to learn.  When we were making better money we bought some IRAs and investments, but never really understood them.  We’re also not clear on benefits of IRAs or CDs, etc. and we don’t understand the stock market either.  Some of the terms used here on the forums are confusing like living on 4%?  How does that work???  Any info would be great and please don’t laugh!
No embarrassment needed.  Nobody here knew those things either - until they learned.

Some shorter "getting started" reading material (note that these may not give identical advice, but if you follow any of it you will likely do well):
www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
http://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/
http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Category:Getting_started
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6211

For longer works, http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/the-mmm-reading-list/ and https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Books:_recommendations_and_reviews.
A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Burton Malkiel and The Four Pillars of Investing by William Bernstein are a couple of the usual recommendations.

Regarding the "4%" - see
http://www.retailinvestor.org/pdf/Bengen1.pdf,
https://incomeclub.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/retirement-savings-choosing-a-withdrawal-rate-that-is-sustainable.pdf,
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Trinity_study_update, and
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Safe_withdrawal_rates
for some reading.

MangoAtPlay

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2017, 08:00:32 PM »
Thank you for the swift reply, MDM!  Very exciting!

I used the case study example for listing the expenses, but I sadly don't understand a lot of the language used on the example.  :(
So for us, it was just easier to write out what we know and we'll try to learn the rest!

Thank you also for the great links - we'll check them all out!


Hargrove

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2017, 10:07:11 PM »
Welcome to the forums!

Quote
Food:  $600/month You can easily get this to 200/mo for a family of 2 without kids.
Gas:  $320/month WOW. Yes, shorter commute should be a high priority.
Electric:  $240/month Are you working on a fusion reactor? Lower the thermostat and wear a long-sleeve!
Cable/Internet/Netflix:  $100/month Couldn't you just do Netflix for $10 a month? Or do you get 10x the enjoyment out of also having all the cable shows you probably don't have time to watch, not being done with Netflix yet ever?
Cell Phones:  $132/month HOLY HAND GRENADES OF MONEYFIRE. 1gb plan from Verizon for two cellphones is only $70. Your cellphone is not a mobile Netflix adapter. Use your computer for streaming videos and funny cat nonsense and keep $62 a month, or better yet, check out various cell plans from smaller companies for even less.

And obviously, pay off that credit card ASAP. Luckily, you're not starting out in terrible shape, so hopefully it won't seem insane to work on these things and get to the next step. Good luck!

dess1313

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2017, 05:19:35 AM »
Welcome!  here are some bigger things that stand out to me


Current expenses:  In 2017 we’re tracking every expense and receipt so our expenses listed on this post are just from the first 2 months of this year. 

Mortgage:  $2,000/month (actual payment is $970 but we are paying rental house off early for the psychological benefit) why not take care of your visa at high interest rates first?  Most cards charge 20 to 30% interest, your mortgage is a fraction of that
Food:  $600/month thats probably pretty high even for just 2 people.  are you eating out a lot, or doing organic type produce?
Gas:  $320/month do you have to commute for work, or travel as part of your work duties?  That seems like a lot.  what types of vehicles are you driving?
Electric:  $240/month Is this common for your area?  do you have cold winter or brutally hot summers that make this so expensive?
Water:  $40/month
Cable/Internet/Netflix:  $100/month
Cell Phones:  $132/month one or two cell phones?
Home/Yard misc.:  $200/month - Do you realize at $200 a month you are spending $2400 on your yard a year?  On what?
Gym:  $55/month (will be cancelling in June when contract allows) - Good.  simple exercise equipment can be purchased and used at home
Auto Insurance:  $87/month have you shopped around for better rates?
Life Insurance:  $32/month
Clothing/Personal:  $100/month  try to plan more for clothing, shop in off seasons, look for sales.  do an inventory of your closet and make sure you are only getting what you really actually need, not what you already have
Entertainment:  $150/month (classes, music, etc). enjoying life is important, but are you getting $1800 a year in value from it?
Pets:  $150/month (medicine, special food) i understand pets are family, but have you shopped around for better deals, or looked at prices online for their foods to see if you can reduce the costs?
Charity:  $37/month
Misc. expenses:  $100/month
Property taxes & insurance for 2 homes:  $5,000/year (paid in full once per year)
Car maintenance:  $1,000/year
Work Expenses:  $200/year (fees work doesn’t pay for)
Travel:  $2,000/year
...

Specific Question(s):
  We’re embarrassed to say we don’t really understand retirement planning but are eager to learn.  When we were making better money we bought some IRAs and investments, but never really understood them.  We’re also not clear on benefits of IRAs or CDs, etc. and we don’t understand the stock market either.  Some of the terms used here on the forums are confusing like living on 4%?  How does that work???  Any info would be great and please don’t laugh!

  We’re working on budget friendly, healthy meals.  Also getting insulation for the attic in our older primary home.  Any tips are appreciated! ☺

Here are some great book ideas for you to start reading.  they all cover investing, stock markets, retirement, and in nice easy to read formats for people just starting to learn about things
Millionaire Teacher by Andrew Hallam
The Boglehead Guide to investing
The Boglehead guide to retirement

the more you can reduce your spending now, the easier it will be for you to retire

MangoAtPlay

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2017, 05:39:05 AM »
What exactly are the "Putnam Investments" funds in, and most importantly, what are the annual fees?   

You could easily bring down your cell phone bills.  Many of us here are on plans that cost $20-30/month/phone (I have both Google Fi and T Mobile plans in this range).

Groceries are definitely another good area to tackle.  I spend roughly $500-600/month to feed two adults and two teens.  And we eat good quality food/lots of protein/fruit/vegetables (Costco, the Asian Market and weekly specials at the mainstream market are our friends)
[/color]

lhamo -- The Putnam investments are listed as: Putnam Global Health Care FD-C, Putnam Multi-Cap Growth Fund-C, Putnam Intl Capital Opps-C
  Going back a few statements I don't see any fees withdrawn.

Can you give some more info on the phones?  Our current plan is with Verizon.

I definitely want to work on the grocery spending - I agree it is very high for just 2 people!  We started this year making our own coffees for work but still spend here and there on fast food :(

  Thanks lhamo for your reply! 

MangoAtPlay

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2017, 05:48:05 AM »
Welcome to the forums!

Quote
Food:  $600/month You can easily get this to 200/mo for a family of 2 without kids.
Gas:  $320/month WOW. Yes, shorter commute should be a high priority.
Electric:  $240/month Are you working on a fusion reactor? Lower the thermostat and wear a long-sleeve!
Cable/Internet/Netflix:  $100/month Couldn't you just do Netflix for $10 a month? Or do you get 10x the enjoyment out of also having all the cable shows you probably don't have time to watch, not being done with Netflix yet ever?
Cell Phones:  $132/month HOLY HAND GRENADES OF MONEYFIRE. 1gb plan from Verizon for two cellphones is only $70. Your cellphone is not a mobile Netflix adapter. Use your computer for streaming videos and funny cat nonsense and keep $62 a month, or better yet, check out various cell plans from smaller companies for even less.

And obviously, pay off that credit card ASAP. Luckily, you're not starting out in terrible shape, so hopefully it won't seem insane to work on these things and get to the next step. Good luck!
[/color]

Hi Hargrove ---

 $200/month for food sounds amazing!  Can you point me in the right direction for more info?  We're currently trying to make more things to freeze and let thaw during the work day because we noticed when we're really tired from work we just don't care if we spend money on dinner.  Trying to plan this out better.

 The electric comment made me laugh ;)  We live in an older home and the insulation is original to the house.  This summer we're planning to get the old sucked out and put in new which should make a big difference.  If we had the cash we would look into better quality windows but it's not a need just yet.  We recently got a new unit so that should help reduce the bills also as the old one was quite inefficient.

  Thanks for the info on the phones - we also have Verizon and I'll ask about the 1gb plan for sure! 

 Thanks so much :)

MangoAtPlay

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2017, 06:01:14 AM »

Mortgage:  $2,000/month (actual payment is $970 but we are paying rental house off early for the psychological benefit) why not take care of your visa at high interest rates first?  Most cards charge 20 to 30% interest, your mortgage is a fraction of that

  That's a good idea - I'd definitely like to get that pesky VISA off our back.

Food:  $600/month thats probably pretty high even for just 2 people.  are you eating out a lot, or doing organic type produce?

  No we don't eat out in restaurants but do eat fast food when tired or if we haven't planned well.  Also working on food waste as some of the salad stuff/veggies get thrown out way too much. 

Gas:  $320/month do you have to commute for work, or travel as part of your work duties?  That seems like a lot.  what types of vehicles are you driving?


  Yes we both commute for work but Earner #2 is looking for work closer to home.  We have a Prius C and Subaru Forester.

Electric:  $240/month Is this common for your area?  do you have cold winter or brutally hot summers that make this so expensive?

  We're definitely working on this!  We have a new unit but a big house and drafty windows.  Getting new insulation soon which should help and reminding ourselves to turn it off when we're gone.

Water:  $40/month
Cable/Internet/Netflix:  $100/month
Cell Phones:  $132/month one or two cell phones?


  2 iphones -- looking into a new plan for sure!

Home/Yard misc.:  $200/month - Do you realize at $200 a month you are spending $2400 on your yard a year?  On what?


  Good point.  I'm not sure this is really accurate representation for the full year because I just used the first 2 months for an average.  I just bought pine straw, weed & feed, etc stuff that you don't really buy every month.

Gym:  $55/month (will be cancelling in June when contract allows) - Good.  simple exercise equipment can be purchased and used at home
Auto Insurance:  $87/month have you shopped around for better rates?
Life Insurance:  $32/month

Clothing/Personal:  $100/month  try to plan more for clothing, shop in off seasons, look for sales.  do an inventory of your closet and make sure you are only getting what you really actually need, not what you already have


  Will do - good idea!

Entertainment:  $150/month (classes, music, etc). enjoying life is important, but are you getting $1800 a year in value from it?

  This one is a little hard -- currently taking art classes which is amazing but the teacher is moving in August so I'm trying to take as many classes as I can with her :(  Art materials are high but it's such a fun class so I rationalize it.  It is really high though, I'll think about cutting the classes in half.

Pets:  $150/month (medicine, special food) i understand pets are family, but have you shopped around for better deals, or looked at prices online for their foods to see if you can reduce the costs?


  Yes the medicine is as low as we can get it but I'm reducing the treats and toys quite a bit.  I never really thought about how much those things add up!

Charity:  $37/month
Misc. expenses:  $100/month
Property taxes & insurance for 2 homes:  $5,000/year (paid in full once per year)
Car maintenance:  $1,000/year
Work Expenses:  $200/year (fees work doesn’t pay for)
Travel:  $2,000/year
...

Specific Question(s):
  We’re embarrassed to say we don’t really understand retirement planning but are eager to learn.  When we were making better money we bought some IRAs and investments, but never really understood them.  We’re also not clear on benefits of IRAs or CDs, etc. and we don’t understand the stock market either.  Some of the terms used here on the forums are confusing like living on 4%?  How does that work???  Any info would be great and please don’t laugh!

  We’re working on budget friendly, healthy meals.  Also getting insulation for the attic in our older primary home.  Any tips are appreciated! ☺
[/quote]

Here are some great book ideas for you to start reading.  they all cover investing, stock markets, retirement, and in nice easy to read formats for people just starting to learn about things
Millionaire Teacher by Andrew Hallam
The Boglehead Guide to investing
The Boglehead guide to retirement

the more you can reduce your spending now, the easier it will be for you to retire
[/quote]


  Thank you for the great suggestions!  I look forward to reading them! 

Hargrove

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2017, 06:07:55 AM »
Hi Hargrove ---

 $200/month for food sounds amazing!  Can you point me in the right direction for more info?  We're currently trying to make more things to freeze and let thaw during the work day because we noticed when we're really tired from work we just don't care if we spend money on dinner.  Trying to plan this out better.

 The electric comment made me laugh ;)  We live in an older home and the insulation is original to the house.  This summer we're planning to get the old sucked out and put in new which should make a big difference.  If we had the cash we would look into better quality windows but it's not a need just yet.  We recently got a new unit so that should help reduce the bills also as the old one was quite inefficient.

  Thanks for the info on the phones - we also have Verizon and I'll ask about the 1gb plan for sure! 

 Thanks so much :)

Oops! I checked again. Verizon's best plan now is 2gb, but even so, it's only $75 after line access fees. And you can do even better. Consumer Cellular, Republic Wireless, Google Phone...

Groceries:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/23/grocery-shopping-with-your-middle-finger/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/29/killing-your-1000-grocery-bill/

Do about THREE TIMES AS MUCH spending as he did and you'll be at about $240 a month. You know, a typical fusion-research bill. ;)

For insulation, great that you're planning improvements. You can get subsidies from your electric co or the government on many energy-saving measures you can take - you should check those out in your area. You can halve that electric bill with good insulation and moderate heat use - which means an insulation project of 1k would pay for itself in under a year, 2k in about a year and a half.

dess1313

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2017, 07:10:20 PM »
A lot of utility companies will have programs to come out and assess your home for heating/cooling and where your energy loss is.  I had a very drafty basement, they were able to do the fan thing to show that it was coming from the places between the sills in the basement.  a few hours with some canned spray foam, and voila it was a MUCH warmer basement. 

Look at meal planning guides.  also try looking up some crock pot recipes.  there are lots of dump xyz into pot and come back in 8 hours to delicious meals.  And a lot of them can be made in big batches and frozen for future dates.  Also pick up some things like frozen chicken fingers, chicken pot pies, and a few pizzas.  They're not as cheap as making it yourself, but it is cheaper than eating out often.   it will help prevent the temptation to go out and grab fast food because you're too tired to cook.

Have you tried a program like You Need A Budget (YNAB)?  it is amazing and great for tracking expenses, AND future planning expenses.  Also lots of great ways to see reports of where your spending actually goes.  Its like using a microscope on your finances.  you can see everything you do, and if you're over or under budget.

also look at if you're doing the monthly auto insurance payments.  any thing like house insurance, auto insurance or house taxes where they let you pay in installments over the year will often charge a fee to do this, and or charge interest as well to do it.  with something like YNAB, or even a simple spread sheet, you can set aside a special savings account that XX.XX gets dumped into monthly, that will cover the auto insurance or other big yearly bills when they are due.  It doesn't sound like much, but it adds up over time

Also take a look at what you are paying in banking fees.  Look at online banks, or credit unions in your area to reduce costs.  $10 a month may not sound like much, but some accounts charge $20 or $30 a month, or will add on fees for transactions that add up to a lot of money going out of your pocket.  $20 a month in fees would cover several art clases, or special ticket items you could go have fun at

starjay

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Re: Looking for guidance - Newbie
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2017, 09:18:03 AM »
What exactly are the "Putnam Investments" funds in, and most importantly, what are the annual fees?   

You could easily bring down your cell phone bills.  Many of us here are on plans that cost $20-30/month/phone (I have both Google Fi and T Mobile plans in this range).

Groceries are definitely another good area to tackle.  I spend roughly $500-600/month to feed two adults and two teens.  And we eat good quality food/lots of protein/fruit/vegetables (Costco, the Asian Market and weekly specials at the mainstream market are our friends)
[/color]

lhamo -- The Putnam investments are listed as: Putnam Global Health Care FD-C, Putnam Multi-Cap Growth Fund-C, Putnam Intl Capital Opps-C
  Going back a few statements I don't see any fees withdrawn.

Can you give some more info on the phones?  Our current plan is with Verizon.

I definitely want to work on the grocery spending - I agree it is very high for just 2 people!  We started this year making our own coffees for work but still spend here and there on fast food :(

  Thanks lhamo for your reply!

Since you are currently with Verizon, you should be able to bring your phones over to Sprint, and save some cash on the monthly charges. Sprint isn't as frugal as some of the options you'll see a lot around here (Google-Fi, Republic Wireless, Ting), but it's still less expensive than Verizon. On Sprint's shared plans you two could share 6gb/month for $45. (Source: Sprint's website)

First, look at the data usage you two have been averaging the past few months. What do you actually use? When I looked at my typical data usage, I decided that I could go to Cricket from AT&T and save $50/month. So now I pay $45/month for 8gb data and unlimited text/talk. If I would modify my behavior a bit and use less data, I'd be able scale down even more.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!