I guess my hand has been forced

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

So the pandemic hit and my life choices were taken out of my hands. My daughter is disabled and pre-pandemic my husband worked part time and got her out of the house in the morning while I was the primary wage earner. Then the pandemic hit. My daughter lost her programming and it’s still not back.  I started to work from home and at the same time my husband’s employer was looking to cut back. It was either he lost his job or went full time so that’s what he did.  I’ve worked from home for over 2 years which meant that I could care for her and still work.  DH HATES his job and wants to quit and I really don’t want to go back into the office full time. We’re really frugal and saved money as our income has increased but I think we’re both done. Raising a disabled daughter is EXHAUSTING in a way that other people don’t understand. We’re extremely frugal and most home repairs we handle, I know the cost will go up for that but we’ll probably move into something that requires less maintenance. I think we could continue living this way but I really want people to poke holes in this.  It’s almost like we have no choice but I really need feedback and advice.  My case study isn’t based on right now; it’s what I’m looking for the future. I’m hanging out at home and we’re both saving money until my employer makes me go back.   I’m saving the max in my 403b and we’re putting another $2000 in investments a month right now.


Case Study:   
Self 60

DH 57

DD 37 (disabled)

No debt

Assets:
Retirement Accounts $428,000

Stock $5000

Property (not family home) $30000
I’m not counting our home or vehicles because they’re not liquid assets but house is paid off and worth $250000

Income (monthly)

Pension (monthly) $1282

DD SSI (monthly) $1114

Part time retirement job (monthly) $ 600

Total: $2996

Expenses :

Property tax $500 (monthly, will lower when I’m 65)

Medical Insurance  $220 (provided by my job in retirement but will increase 2 to 3% every year)

Auto and home insurance (which should go down in retirement) $120

Utilities (electricity and heat) $240

Internet and streaming $120 (we switch streaming services when we want to watch something but Netflix and Disney are essential for DD and internet is really expensive)

Groceries $400 (dietary choices for DD brings the price up)

Gas $300 but will go down when we stop working

Vacation $200 it’s hard to figure out our vacation costs because mostly I organize all our vacations  (three generations but I  either get reimbursed by family or we get money from my daughter’s
trust for her portion of the trip so it’s pretty fluid but $2000 a year seems what we spend. . I would like to spend about $5000 to do a big trip to visit my cousins in Europe.

Dining $500 but it’s my daughter’s favorite thing.

Donations $50

Clothing $40

Aging beagle $100

Miscellaneous $400 (gardening supplies, home repair, car stuff, gifts)

$3190

I know that there could be unexpected expenses and we’ve got money set aside for some major home improvement projects but I didn’t include that in our assets or expenses. 

[SwordGuy]

You're already getting the pension income?  If not, when do you qualify?

You and your spouse will both qualify for social security?

Because if you do, you're in great shape given your income and expenses, particularly when you start collecting social security.

[Dicey]

What about cash on hand/Emergency Fund $?

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

Sword Guy - I qualify for my pension the day I leave my job which will be when they make me go back in full time. We both do qualify for social security but would like to hold off on that for a while. Thanks for your feedback, it's reassuring because my whole family besides my son and mother think we're nuts. 

Dicey - we don't really have an emergency fund, we've got $10,000 in a high interest savings account. There's really no way that I would lose my job, it's a civil service position and I've got lots of seniority. If something were to happen to me before I retire DH would get 3x my currents salary from my employer and I've got all the necessary disability insurance.

[Sandi_k]

I think it's still pretty skinny.

What would I do? Look to see if I could reduce to three days per week. It might slow your savings a bit, but it would also help with the burnout.

I would wait another couple of years until I had a completed the house projects, replaced the car with a newer model going into retirement, and anything else that would require you to spend a chunk of your income on it all at once.

You're close, but at $20k withdrawal, using ~ 3.5% plus retirement income gets you ~ $56k. Which looks good, until you start using those investment savings to deal with house projects, a long-awaited vacation, a big car repair...

[Villanelle]

What is the "Property (not family home) $30000"?  I don't see any rental income, so I'm wondering what this is.

All of this looks a little too tight for me personally.  I'd likely push for one job or the other to go down to 3 days a week. Or cold either you or your spouse keep working and the other stick it out for another year or two? 

I'd not, I'd look for a part time job.  Ideally something professional so you make more money in those hours, but even if it is just a modest thing, it is going to bring in some money.  If you are both quitting FTE, then one of both of you could work a bit and someone could still be home with your DD.  One of you does substitute teaching twice a week and the other works one day a week at a coffee shop, for example.  Not a ton of income, but it is something, and it would be far, far less stressful than what you are doing now.

What you have on paper works, but I thin the moment you need a new car or roof, suddenly you are in trouble. 

[SwordGuy]

I think it's still pretty skinny.

What would I do? Look to see if I could reduce to three days per week. It might slow your savings a bit, but it would also help with the burnout.

I would wait another couple of years until I had a completed the house projects, replaced the car with a newer model going into retirement, and anything else that would require you to spend a chunk of your income on it all at once.

You're close, but at $20k withdrawal, using ~ 3.5% plus retirement income gets you ~ $56k. Which looks good, until you start using those investment savings to deal with house projects, a long-awaited vacation, a big car repair...

All good points.     Before I retired I made sure to buy lots of the expensive tools and stock up on expensive materials my hobby would require.    We set aside some money to replace my car as it was the oldest of the two. 

So setting aside some funds for the big ticket items before you retire would certainly be prudent.

Then again, you are are 2-6 years away from social security and as soon as one of them goes on it their budget will no longer be tight.  So they have a ready-made safety net available for use.

[terran]

Was your daughter disabled before she was 22 years such that she might qualify for 1/2 of your or your husbands social security benefit as a Disabled Adult Child (DAC) once you/he starts collecting? And if so, would that amount be larger than what she currently collects? It might still be helpful even if the amount isn't more since SSDI isn't means tested ($2000 asset limit) while SSI is.

You might consider running your social security numbers through https://opensocialsecurity.com/. Especially if your daughter will qualify for DAC benefits the optimal filing strategy might be to collect sooner than would otherwise be recommended.

Have you done any estate planning to make sure you daughter is taken care of after you and your husband die? You might consider creating a special needs trust. There are probably other ways to find one, but here's one place you can look for a lawyer with experience in this area: https://specialneedsanswers.com/USA-special-needs-planners

[Dicey]

Sword Guy - I qualify for my pension the day I leave my job which will be when they make me go back in full time. We both do qualify for social security but would like to hold off on that for a while. Thanks for your feedback, it's reassuring because my whole family besides my son and mother think we're nuts. 

Dicey - we don't really have an emergency fund, we've got $10,000 in a high interest savings account. There's really no way that I would lose my job, it's a civil service position and I've got lots of seniority. If something were to happen to me before I retire DH would get 3x my currents salary from my employer and I've got all the necessary disability insurance.

I was just curious why it wasn't listed in your assets in the first post. Anything else you've omitted?

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

Sword Guy - That's exactly what we're planning on doing. I didn't include it in our assets because it's going to go this summer, new driveway, new roof and new furnace. We just bought a 2 year old car from Mom, Dad can't drive anymore so they didn't need 2 cars. Our hobbies are really cheap, all outdoor stuff that we've got all the gear for.

Villanelle - The property is a half dozen acres on the side of a mountain that we inherited, we use it to camp on in the summer, firewood for our wood stove and friends hunt on it in fall and give us some of the venison they get. Taxes are low but we're planning on selling it this year.

Dicey - I didn't put it in assets, I look at that the same way I look at our house, it's worth something but we're not going to spend it unless it's a real emergency, I also didn't include the money we've set aside for the home projects that we need to do this summer.

Terran - She's disabled since birth so I'm going to look into that and see, thanks for the link, it may make me claim earlier than I was planning. We've done all the estate planning and set up a special needs trust and put some money in it. She's also got 2 other trusts set up by ex-husband's mother and grandmother so she's pretty set. We've also planned for what will happen to her when we die.

I know it looks pretty skinny but DH has a side job lined up and has a ton of handyman jobs that people want done but he just doesn't have time now. I have the option for a job that will probably bring in about $500 a month after taxes. I also may pick up a gig working for a friend at the big weekly farmers market (cash plus free produce), I may get a spot at our small local farmers market (no charge) and sell the produce and flowers that I grow.

We live pretty lean and even with all the big household stuff we did we still managed to save quite a bit of money in the past year. I'm not planning on going until at least October since I have lots of time saved up and can use it for the days I'm supposed to be in the office until they stop the work from home option, DH will probably go at the same time. I figure that we'll probably be able to save another $30,000 in the next 7 months.

Neither of us has the option to go part time, DH's job doesn't have a position and if I did it would affect my pension (they average out the last 3 years that you work to determine how much you get). We've taken turns being the primary care giver while the other works full time and we are both physically and mentally exhausted to the point that it's affecting our mental health and marriage and we can't take that risk.

I really appreciate all the feedback, it makes me think about my options.

[Dicey]

Holy cow! That's a lot. It sounds like you've done a lot more planning than your first post reveals. Armed with this new information, I'm definitely leaning towards suggesting you pull the trigger soon.

One of my favorite FIRE quotes is, "Retiring too early is a mistake from which you can recover. Too late and there is no recovery."

[Villanelle]

I agree with Dicey.  That's lots of new information and makes things look much better.  Personally, I'd just really commit to the side hustles and to beefing them up as much as possible (perhaps after giving yourself 6 weeks to decompress a bit), to make sure I actually actively pursued them, particularly that handyman thing since that will require some effort to get going and find ongoing business, and the $500 side gig since that sounds like it would be a set number you can count on.  If both those things felt pretty certain and we were fully committed to putting in the effort, then yeah, I'd probably feel ready to quit. 

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

Was your daughter disabled before she was 22 years such that she might qualify for 1/2 of your or your husbands social security benefit as a Disabled Adult Child (DAC) once you/he starts collecting? And if so, would that amount be larger than what she currently collects? It might still be helpful even if the amount isn't more since SSDI isn't means tested ($2000 asset limit) while SSI is.

You might consider running your social security numbers through https://opensocialsecurity.com/. Especially if your daughter will qualify for DAC benefits the optimal filing strategy might be to collect sooner than would otherwise be recommended.

Have you done any estate planning to make sure you daughter is taken care of after you and your husband die? You might consider creating a special needs trust. There are probably other ways to find one, but here's one place you can look for a lawyer with experience in this area: https://specialneedsanswers.com/USA-special-needs-planners

Terran, I went on the open social security website and it seems that my husband could start getting spousal child in care benefits when he's 59 and that's a game changer. I need to double check if he qualifies though. He's her step parent but also her legal guardian. Thanks for the link.

[mistymoney]

even from the op it seem pretty doable. the side gigs make it very doable.

And you can start your ss at 62 if things aren't working out with the side gigs.

Good luck!

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your input. I was freaking out a bit about it because ALL of our families besides my mom and son think we are nuts and we're going to end up homeless. Today I talked to my mom about it and she basically told me that if I needed money she'd give me what she set aside for me early. I talked to my son and daughter in law about a bunch of stuff and my delightful daughter in law told me not to worry about anything. She's got a trust fund with  A LOT of money and they'd help us out if we needed it. I don't plan on taking either one up on their offers but it's nice to know.

[former player]

Annual family income when you retire from full time work and move to your part-time job is $36k.  Annual expenses listed out at $38.2k.

But you haven't included in your income withdrawals from your retirement funds, which at 4% gives you another $17k a year.  You haven't included social security, which both you and your husband qualify for in a few years and which might also increase your daughter's income when you start to take it.  Plus your husband has people lining up to employ him on handyman jobs, you have the possibility of other earnings, and you have supportive family with resources they are willing to use to help you out.  You've got money set aside for capital expenditures plus additional money from a property you are intending to sell.

You are golden.   Congratulations on the hard work and frugality which has got you hear, and go for retirement as soon as you like.  If you haven't already done this, you should ask for an estimate of the social security you and your husband will be entitled to so you can add that to your planning.  But you can leave work whenever you want.

[Cassie]

It sounds like a well deserved retirement:)).

[BikeFanatic]

I would pull the plug ASAP, you do have it covered.

[zolotiyeruki]

Annual family income when you retire from full time work and move to your part-time job is $36k.  Annual expenses listed out at $38.2k.

But you haven't included in your income withdrawals from your retirement funds, which at 4% gives you another $17k a year.  You haven't included social security, which both you and your husband qualify for in a few years and which might also increase your daughter's income when you start to take it.  Plus your husband has people lining up to employ him on handyman jobs, you have the possibility of other earnings, and you have supportive family with resources they are willing to use to help you out.  You've got money set aside for capital expenditures plus additional money from a property you are intending to sell.

Agreed.  You have almost enough income to cover your expenses, plus you could get another $17k from retirement accounts, plus you have SS income coming in 2-7 years, plus you can invest the $300k from selling the property (another $12k/year at a 4% WR).  Plus whatever income you desire to earn once you pull the plug.

You're good.

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

So we've actually become golden. My husband's part time gig will actually give us $2000 a month for something he's been doing for free for quite a few years. They were willing to pay him but his job had outside earnings restriction so since he's retiring they can't wait to pay him because they don't want to lose him. I will definitely be able to relax in my retirement.

[expatartist]

Congrats, Fi(re) on the Farm!!

[frugal_c]

You have everything covered plus extra income and investments so you should be good.  I say go for it.

On a separate note, I have some understanding of the effort required to take care of a disabled child.  You should be very proud of yourself for your commitment.  For that reason as well, I say give yourself a little break and go for the retirement.

[SunnyDays]

I won't address the money aspect, because everyone else has.

But, I will say this:  Don't count on being able to take care of your daughter until you die.  Make sure you have plans in place for being unable to do it at any point from today, because you never know what will happen.  I worked with intellectually and psychically disabled people for 30 years and also have a physically disabled relative.  I've seen what happens when parents try to keep going beyond the point they shouldn't and it's hard on everyone.  Also, lots of disabled people don't want to continue to live with mom and dad as an adult.  Moving into group homes is often an exciting thing and gives them a measure of independence and motivation that staying home doesn't. Not to mention increased social relationships.  Because you can't just move someone tomorrow if the need arises, it's wise to get your ducks in a row now.

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

I won't address the money aspect, because everyone else has.

But, I will say this:  Don't count on being able to take care of your daughter until you die.  Make sure you have plans in place for being unable to do it at any point from today, because you never know what will happen.  I worked with intellectually and psychically disabled people for 30 years and also have a physically disabled relative.  I've seen what happens when parents try to keep going beyond the point they shouldn't and it's hard on everyone.  Also, lots of disabled people don't want to continue to live with mom and dad as an adult.  Moving into group homes is often an exciting thing and gives them a measure of independence and motivation that staying home doesn't. Not to mention increased social relationships.  Because you can't just move someone tomorrow if the need arises, it's wise to get your ducks in a row now.

Sunny Days - she's been on a waiting list for housing for almost 20 years. They've only offered us one placement and it would have meant her living with people 30 years older than her. She is severely intellectually disabled and our state loves to tout the number of placements they've made but it's for a much higher functioning population. We've got a plan for her that will involve my son and DIL. They've taken her a number of times and know how to work with her. I totally agree with you but it's not happening anytime soon. We may actually move to another state that's better about providing housing.

[Dicey]

Congratulations!

[change_seeker]

So we've actually become golden. My husband's part time gig will actually give us $2000 a month for something he's been doing for free for quite a few years. They were willing to pay him but his job had outside earnings restriction so since he's retiring they can't wait to pay him because they don't want to lose him. I will definitely be able to relax in my retirement.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

[joemandadman189]

Holy cow! That's a lot. It sounds like you've done a lot more planning than your first post reveals. Armed with this new information, I'm definitely leaning towards suggesting you pull the trigger soon.

One of my favorite FIRE quotes is, "Retiring too early is a mistake from which you can recover. Too late and there is no recovery."

That's an awesome quote

one thing that helped us with planning was to do a retirement cash flow analysis year by year including things like big vacations, health care, other unexpected or items like car purchases, then you can see when adding social security makes sense, or how many side gigs DH "needs" to complete or when the Stash starts to drop to low.

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

Holy cow! That's a lot. It sounds like you've done a lot more planning than your first post reveals. Armed with this new information, I'm definitely leaning towards suggesting you pull the trigger soon.

One of my favorite FIRE quotes is, "Retiring too early is a mistake from which you can recover. Too late and there is no recovery."

That's an awesome quote

one thing that helped us with planning was to do a retirement cash flow analysis year by year including things like big vacations, health care, other unexpected or items like car purchases, then you can see when adding social security makes sense, or how many side gigs DH "needs" to complete or when the Stash starts to drop to low.

So joe189man, can you tell me how to do a retirement cash flow analysis? I'd really like to be prepared.

[joemandadman189]

you can create a cash flow table in excel
probably want columns for your, DH and DD ages, then columns for either each retirement or brokerage account or the total from all accounts, a column for new annual savings, columns for annual spending, and social security income at what every ages you plan to take it, columns for side gigs, you may want a separate column for healthcare spending any any other items you want to track separately

start with this year then for next year do the math in the columns to add or subtract savings and spending as required, be sure to account for your stash growth also maybe 5-6%

for example these could be columns assuming 6% interest

Age      starting portfolio value     retirement savings     retirement spending    other spending goals,  other income goals  health care spending    cash flow
50              $500,000                           $50,000                       $0                          $0                             $6,000                    -$10,000              $46,000
51              $576,000                            $20,500                    -$24000                  -$5,000                       $6,000                    -$11,000            -$13,500
52              $597,060

hopefully this makes sense
in my planning we use about $17k per year for health spending pre age 65 and about $7500 after, although we are not caring for a dependent
I bet if you google retirement cash flow table you may get some other examples or a template

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

you can create a cash flow table in excel
probably want columns for your, DH and DD ages, then columns for either each retirement or brokerage account or the total from all accounts, a column for new annual savings, columns for annual spending, and social security income at what every ages you plan to take it, columns for side gigs, you may want a separate column for healthcare spending any any other items you want to track separately

start with this year then for next year do the math in the columns to add or subtract savings and spending as required, be sure to account for your stash growth also maybe 5-6%

for example these could be columns assuming 6% interest

Age      starting portfolio value     retirement savings     retirement spending    other spending goals,  other income goals  health care spending    cash flow
50              $500,000                           $50,000                       $0                          $0                             $6,000                    -$10,000              $46,000
51              $576,000                            $20,500                    -$24000                  -$5,000                       $6,000                    -$11,000            -$13,500
52              $597,060

hopefully this makes sense
in my planning we use about $17k per year for health spending pre age 65 and about $7500 after, although we are not caring for a dependent
I bet if you google retirement cash flow table you may get some other examples or a template

Thanks Joe, I'll work on creating a cash flow spread sheet. We're pretty lucky, in retirement it will cost me about $5000 a year for all of us and it will go up 2 to 3% a year.

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

So one year later I thought I'd give an update. My husband is loving his post retirement gig, he's making over $20,000 a year after taxes. When I handed in my retirement paperwork they were terrified (thank you fu money) and have let me work 3 days a week since then. I'm planning on going in January when I'm 62 so we have an even bigger cushion. For now I'm enjoying my long weekends and time away from home.

[Cassie]

That’s a great update!!

[Laura33]

Congratulations!  FWIW I think you were good to go on your original plan, but I'm very happy things have worked out even better than that. 

[Finances_With_Purpose]

Fantastic!  So very glad to hear it.  And kudos to you re: DD.  That's tough, and you have my prayers. 

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

So I just want to give a brief update - retired at the end of January this year. Between my husband's side gig (which has translated into $40,000 a year) and my pension we haven't touch our stach at all. I've got a great veg garden going and we've done some traveling including me going with my mom to Italy for a once in a life time trip. Not having to go to work has been such a gift for my husband and me! I wish I'd had more courage and done it sooner.

[weebs]

Fantastic update and congrats on pulling the plug.  Did working part time ease the transition or were you over it at that point?

[former player]

I love a great post-FIRE update like this one.

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

Fantastic update and congrats on pulling the plug.  Did working part time ease the transition or were you over it at that point?

Working part time definitely helped. It wasn't that I didn't like my job it's just that I was tired of working and juggling life.

[Dicey]

So I just want to give a brief update - retired at the end of January this year. Between my husband's side gig (which has translated into $40,000 a year) and my pension we haven't touch our stach at all. I've got a great veg garden going and we've done some traveling including me going with my mom to Italy for a once in a life time trip. Not having to go to work has been such a gift for my husband and me! I wish I'd had more courage and done it sooner.

The important thing is that you did it. Congratulations!

[Dee]

What a great update. I'm so glad you posted it.

[lhamo]

Whoo hoo!  Congratulations!

[AMandM]

I love a happy ending... or in this case a happy beginning!