Author Topic: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?  (Read 2773 times)

wolderiii

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I've outright owned the business since 2019, just in time for the pandemic. I pay myself 60k year through payroll.  2019 business profits 130k,  2020 was 20k (but I also didn't pay myself that year), 2021 profits 230K (significant portion of that was getting rid of obsolete inventory that we had already written off, so it shows as 100% profit.  only able to do that because no company had inventory last year and people were buying anything they could make work).   
I've never taken any money out of the company profits, it has all gone back into the business.
I average 50% margin on the items.  once I take out rent and other monthly operating costs I only make around 30% margin.  (stock market made 24% last year... I know it won't do that forever).

Now I'm facing supply chain issues.  In January my US manufacturer facility said they couldn't produce for us anymore which is going to affect 50% of our product line which accounts for roughly 15-20% of our sales.  I can't find a US replacement at the cost I need as we are a wholesale only business and we don't have enough volume in those items to offshore.  Previous to this I had already replaced 2 other manufacturers,  1 went out of business during the pandemic, and another offshore facility said they couldn't produce for us anymore because all of their capacity was bought up for the next 3 years.  I've replaced 3 of 5 suppliers in the last 2 years.
Right now I'm looking at possibly getting product so late in the year that I might miss our busy season.  Sales will certainly suffer but I doubt it would be enough to put me completely out of business but it will certainly affect yearly sales.
I had one suitor interested in buying the company but they backed out. 
Right now the business checking account has 450k in it.  I've talked to the CPA and I can show a loss on the remaining inventory and it would wipe out profits from 2021... so theoretically I could walk away with all 450k.
Am I crazy to close the business?  I feel one of the major reasons for closing is that I could coast-fire and just be done with the stress.  Mentally I'm done, the last 2 years were hard and this year is also going to be incredibly challenging.  But should I keep it going and try to sell the business?  I could likely get another 300-500K if I sell but I would also have to invest all of the 450K currently in the business to get more product and there is obviously no timeline on when or if someone would want to buy it.

here is how I see our family FIRE situation.
I'm 41 years old.
DW is 40, makes 95k year. she holds the healthcare for the family and loves her job.  She would stay employed likely for 10 years until she is 50.
We have 3 kids ages 20, 16, and 14.  The 20 year old is out of the house doing his own thing although we cover car insurance, cell phone, health insurance.

Can we live off DW income and not have to dip into savings?

current wife gross paycheck 3942.00 every 2 weeks (before taxes 603.11, insurance 261.23, retirement account 591.26 is taken out)
current wife take home = 2487.00 every 2 weeks. 
we are putting 15% of her income into 401k.  we could lower that to get the full employer match at 6% (they match 50% up to 6%). savings of 354.00 per pay
2487 + 354 = 2841.00 every 2 weeks.  (I know some of that 354.00 will get siphoned by taxes)
or 5682.00 every 4 weeks.

currently we have 590k in various retirement accounts.
add the 450K from the business checking to it = 1,040,000 put into low cost vanguard index funds.  I would not want to touch this until she retires in 10 years but would have it split roughly 50/50 between retirement accounts where we can't touch until 59.5 and brokerage accounts / roth IRA that we could take out if needed.

17k in personal checking account.
4 cars (1 for each person in the family that can drive)  plus 1 motorcycle.  all are paid off.

We live in LCOL area (midwest) and owe 71k on our house @ 3.48%.  It's the only debt we have, will be paid off in 8 years.  Zillow estimate at 330k. which is probably close in this housing market.
832 month mortgage
386 month prop. taxes
85 month prop. insurance
= 1303 monthly house cost

85 month water/sewer/trash
150 month average electric
57 month average natural gas bill
60 month internet
20 month Netflix
160 month auto insurance
80 month cell phone (currently business pays for cell phone but will probably go with mint mobile or similar low cost carrier for 5 lines, estimating 80.00 month)
=602 monthly bill cost

2021 credit card spending...  54k   (using mint to track expenses)
8,000 yearly groceries
10,000 yearly restaurants, fast food, coffee  (we need to cut significantly here)
12,500 yearly shopping  (includes roughly 1k in purchases for side hustle business that pays for itself)
7,000 yearly health and fitness  ( includes 2 surgeries at around 2k out of pocket plus 2700 in mouth surgery not covered by insurance)
5,000 yearly travel and entertainment  (1800 of it is season ski passes and rentals for family)
4,000 yearly on auto maintenance and gas  (I do 95% of all our repairs and maintenance so this includes replacement parts, tools, etc...)
2,500 yearly on "business expenses" (2,100 in professional licenses for wife and rest was internet hosting for a secondary business. all of this will disappear in 2022)
2,200 yearly on "misc items"  (1,900 of it was taking down 3 trees on our property)
2,800 yearly on "other items"  (including hair cuts, home improvement items, pet supplies, kids activities like paying to get into their sports, etc...)
=54,000    minus one time charges accrued last year like surgeries, tree service, professional licenses = 10k savings = 44,000 total (which matches closely to our 2020 credit card spend)
= 3666 monthly CC spending   (44,000 / 12 = 3666)

all monthly costs total
1303 + 602 + 3666 = 5,571

5682 income minus 5571 expenses = 111.00 left over.

this is cutting it close but I feel like we can save in the fast food / restaurant and other areas of the budget if needed.  I can also find some side hustles that make some money if needed.

what are your thoughts?  what did I miss?

I'm good with computers, servers, SQL, networking and general IT stuff.  I could likely find an IT job paying 50-60k in short time if I needed or just pick up part time work to help with bills.  Nothing is beneath me and it also excites me to have the opportunity to learn something new.  Just start a new daily grind that's different from the last 15 years.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 11:17:34 AM by wolderiii »

waltworks

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2022, 12:04:25 PM »
Your wife's income can cover your bills, but your savings rate will go to zero, basically. If you're both comfortable with that situation, go for it. 10 years out you *should* have enough scratch to both RE if we assume average historical stock returns. I'm not sure I'd assume that, but you can pick your assumptions to war game the plan in a decade on your own.

So basically, if you aren't going to torpedo your marriage, go for it.

-W

lhamo

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2022, 01:17:15 PM »
If it were me I would close the business and take the bird you have in hand (the $450k).   The supply chain issues are significant enough that the business might not survive or, if it does, will be worth less than what you currently have in the bank after you shell out on new inventory with as yet unknown delivery time-frames and quality (new, untested suppliers who likely have their own pandemic-related issues -- China is pretty messed up at the moment...)

Spend the first year recharging and getting expenses under control/seeing how it feels to get by on one income.

What is the projected timeframe for getting the 20 YO off the family books?  What are your plans for college for the other two?  If you plan to contribute toward that more structured employment might be a good idea. 

wolderiii

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2022, 01:32:28 PM »
Spend the first year recharging and getting expenses under control/seeing how it feels to get by on one income.

What is the projected timeframe for getting the 20 YO off the family books?  What are your plans for college for the other two?  If you plan to contribute toward that more structured employment might be a good idea.

I've thought for months on this and recharging is necessary. Working at this business for 15 years and nothing has been as stressful as the last year (2020 was also stressful but in a completely different way).  I do think after a few months I will probably get bored and want to do something, whether that is full time job or not who knows.

20 YO should be off books soon.  He is going to work steady employment this summer (job he had last year traveling the country doing pavement work wants him back).  He's already stated he wants to start taking care of his own items like taxes (we don't claim him anymore and he doesn't live at our house), he did pay for his own healthcare through employer last year as I was running it all through my company at 2k per month for the family. Wife started new Job in November that had health insurance.
I would assume by the end of the year he will be taking care of his cell phone and car insurance (his car title is in my name, so will probably ask him to pay us for insurance or transfer title to him although that will jack up his rates).  Health insurance he only adds like 30 month and it's good care, so he may stay on until he's 26 just for parents peace of mind that he has insurance.

college for the other 2.  16 YO will likely go to community college and live at home.  at least that is the plan now.   14 YO is doubtful to go to college.  maybe try community college and live at home, we'll see. 
We did help 20 YO with 1 year of college at around 3K.  So we would be glad to help the other 2 around that same level but we both worked and paid for our own college and expect them to do the same.  However, I'm not willing to let them go into 50k+ debt for degree they may or may not use.  So will push for cheaper options.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2022, 01:38:14 PM »
Even if you sold at 2-3X the average profit over the last few years (plus inventory) you could probably get another $100k+ for the business. You could even offer seller financing since that's a relatively small amount for most lenders, but more cash than most people can easily come up with.

Even offering it a fire sale price of $50k would be better than just closing your doors and walking away.

lhamo

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2022, 01:44:15 PM »

Even offering it a fire sale price of $50k would be better than just closing your doors and walking away.

I think you missed the bit where he explained that he has $450k in the business accounts right now.

wolderiii

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2022, 02:13:43 PM »
Even offering it a fire sale price of $50k would be better than just closing your doors and walking away.

If making the decision to close then I would try to sale it at major discount.  However, right now the business is already pushing not having product in time for our busy season in late summer and anybody who buys it is going to have to put at least 400k into inventory to get in ASAP to keep the business going.  Few people are going to be able to do that.
That's why I'm torn on trying to keep it going for another year and trying to sell it (which requires me to invest the 450K I have sitting in the business checking back into the business) or just let it go and not worry about the possibility of extra cash from the sale but keep the 450k in the checking account.
also, if i keep it going for another year then I'll have to pay taxes on the 230k profit to the tune of 60k. which leaves 390K to invest in inventory.  otherwise if closing i will take the loss on the remaining inventory against profits and probably pay no taxes.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2022, 02:28:25 PM »

Even offering it a fire sale price of $50k would be better than just closing your doors and walking away.

I think you missed the bit where he explained that he has $450k in the business accounts right now.

Businesses are typically valued based on a multiple of their profit. Cash in the bank typically stays with the seller.

kei te pai

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2022, 07:02:24 PM »
Close the business. Use your skills to maximise household management, support your wife and family with your time and attention, and look for new opportunities.
Maybe get a part time job doing whatever if you feel a bit bored after some months. It will work out OK.

Dicey

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2022, 09:28:45 PM »
One more "Sell it" vote.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 03:05:14 PM by Dicey »

travel2020

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2022, 12:32:42 AM »
It doesn’t really make sense to make the huge investment in inventory. High risk, low reward situation. If I were in your shoes, I’d try to sell it at a discount and if there are no buyers, exit.

former player

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2022, 02:35:18 AM »
It sounds to me as though you are mentally done with this business, and there would be major hurdles to overcome if you or anyone else were to try to carry on with it.  $450k tax free is a very decent payment to walk away with.

The other thing is: you sound to me like someone who would usually find or make opportunities for themselves.   That's not applicable at the moment, you are burnt out and need a break.  But I think there will very likely be a point within the next few years when you will find something to do that falls into your lap and both excites you and earns money.

So I'm another vote for closing the business, putting the proceeds into Vanguard index funds and taking the time to smell the roses and be with your family.

Mrs Brightside

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2022, 06:25:49 AM »
Nice work setting yourself up for coast FIRE! I feel you are missing some future expenses. When will you need a new car (x4)? A new roof? And how stable is your wife’s employment, she just started there less than 6m ago? Also for the 20yo, maybe give them a time frame when they are expected to cover their own expenses excluding health care.

wolderiii

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2022, 09:00:54 AM »
Nice work setting yourself up for coast FIRE! I feel you are missing some future expenses. When will you need a new car (x4)? A new roof? And how stable is your wife’s employment, she just started there less than 6m ago? Also for the 20yo, maybe give them a time frame when they are expected to cover their own expenses excluding health care.

The wife's job is stable and she's thriving.

Wife just got a new used car last year, '17 model year.  my truck is an '09 but nothing is wrong with it. our 16 YO is driving my previous car which is in good shape, '13 model year.  our 20 YO will need a new car soon, but that will be on him.  We've already told him to start budgeting for it.  Will likely need another used car in 2 years when the 14 YO can drive.  I do all of maintenance on our vehicles, so other than paying for parts they shouldn't be too expensive unless engine or transmission goes out.

We just replaced the roof in the last 6 years.  only house concern I have is some tuck-pointing on the chimney but if I have no job then that will become my job.

SweatingInAR

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Re: contemplating closing business, am I crazy? can I coast fire?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2022, 12:01:37 PM »
we are putting 15% of her income into 401k.  we could lower that to get the full employer match at 6% (they match 50% up to 6%).

Don't lower 401k or IRA contributions! Keep taking the tax break on your income, and pull any shortcomings from your cash savings or investments. It may be hard to see your taxable savings go down, but remember that money is fungible. You can frame it as "converting taxable investments into tax-advantaged 401k"

Another vote for taking the money and running! It looks like you made a good profit on that business, but you're burnt out and facing a probably unprofitable year. Would it be possible to sell the name, website, or client list to a competitor? I know nothing about this... but those are non-material assets that can have significant value.