Author Topic: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?  (Read 39065 times)

former player

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #100 on: August 30, 2023, 09:34:59 AM »
Fascinating.  Thank you for coming back to the forum.

I am only going to make one point: you are not going to be in a position to do for your grandchildren what your parents and grandparents have done for you and your child.

That is all.


MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #101 on: August 30, 2023, 10:09:33 AM »
Fascinating.  Thank you for coming back to the forum.

I am only going to make one point: you are not going to be in a position to do for your grandchildren what your parents and grandparents have done for you and your child.

That is all.

yea this is a big thing for me. Like it may be rational for me to send kids to public school rather than drop $40-$80k/yr on that for 20 years, but if my parents paid for my fancy education and I inherited a bunch of dough from my hardworking grandparents who really valued education, am i not obligated to seek the absolute "best" for my kids? We can debate what is actually best. I can point to plenty of counterexamples/anecdotes in my personal life / argue either way. But if I paid off my mortgage tommorow, wife stopped working / got rid of nanny and we went public so we could retire in 10 years, then I feel like I'm letting the prior generations down.

Laura33

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #102 on: August 30, 2023, 10:44:11 AM »
It looks like you've basically hung steady on the financial front -- when you first posted, you had about 3.5x annual salary invested, now you've got about 4 (if you don't count bonus/inheritance). 

So the real question is:  are you happier now than you were then?  You've increased your salaries quite dramatically, but you've also increased your spending in line with that. 

At heart, you just really need to figure out what you want.  And not in some magical thinking kind of way.  No, you cannot give your kids private schools, private college, All The Things, and still expect to retire early.  You cannot earn $500K and have tons of free time to play with your kids.  You cannot spend all the grandparents' money on your kids and expect to leave a similar legacy for your own grandkids.  Etc. Etc. Etc.

I'd suggest doing some serious thinking about how you want your life to play out.  Because inertia means that if you don't think and make conscious decisions, you'll keep focusing on earning more and finding more things to spend it on.  Evaluate all of the options before you -- and I mean the real options, not the magic-bean options.  If you stay on this path and can buy your family everything they need and more and more of what they want, what will your life be like in 20 years?  Will you be happy with so many years of busting your ass?  Will you have had time to build the relationships you want with your wife and kids?  Or your own side interests?  What will your health be like if you project from your current lifestyle?

OTOH, if you step off the path, how would you feel not having the big-money job?  There can be a lot of self-worth wrapped up in job titles and income, so you need to seriously think about how that would make you feel.  How would you feel about selling, moving, and living somewhere cheaper?  How would you feel in 15 years if your kids were "relegated" to state school?  Are there other less-demanding jobs you might be interested in that would enable a higher lifestyle, or would you want to quit entirely and live off your current investments? 

One thing I would very much recommend you re-evaluate your biases on is what "give your kids everything" actually means.  You, like most people, are very clearly defining "everything" in terms of external markers of success -- the "best" schools, the "best" colleges, All The Opportunities.  But "costs more" does not equal "best."  It is very, very clear that in the vast majority of cases, the so-called "quality" of schools is directly tied to the socioeconomic status of the kids they teach -- they're riding your coattails, not carving an independent path to academic excellence.  If there's a specific program or approach that one of these private schools provides, or if it's a pipeline to a specific college your heart is set on, consider if it's worth the cost.  Otherwise, default to your free options first and see if they are good enough before you commit yourself to ridiculous annual costs that may provide no benefit whatsoever (except the ego boost of the brag sticker on your car). 

And the flip side of all of those "opportunities" is pressure.  If you always live in the "best" neighborhoods and send your kids to the "best" schools, they will be constantly surrounded by other kids from the same background and with the same parental expectations.  Kids can put a lot of pressure on themselves to succeed and make their parents proud, and the "Ivy or you're a failure" attitude gets internalized very easily, even if that's not what you personally care about.  It can also lead to crazy lifestyles as you run your kids from sports to lessons to clubs, trying to offer every opportunity (and of course create that college resume that shows your kid is so awesome in all these different areas).  Some kids thrive with that; others see that as a version of hell.  So when you're evaluating what opportunities you want for your kid, and how much those opportunities weigh against other priorities, be sure to do it from the perspective of your specific kids and their specific personalities, not just on what you think they'd want or what you'd want if they were you. 

ETA:  you've clearly internalized some very specific messages from your parents and grandparents about what it means to be a "success."  That's what you need to start with.  If you make decisions based on whether you'd be letting your parents/grandparents down, you are living your life for other people.  The way to a happy family is to make your decisions based solely on what's best for the woman you married, the kids you have, and you personally.  Those are the only people that matter enough to have any kind of voice in the decision.  If you struggle to get there, it's worth seeing a therapist to work through all that, because meeting other people's goals will never make you yourself happy.

smisk

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #103 on: August 30, 2023, 03:23:18 PM »

It's like I look ten years forward and I'm signing the dotted line on a leased Q7* to take the kids to $30K/year private school and park in my mortgaged up $1.5mm house and my net worth relative to spending hasn't grown at all and level of freedom has not increased; only the velocity of and magnitude of earning and consuming has grown. That is what will occur if we don't change. 

Seems like your prediction is on it's way to becoming true!

former player

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #104 on: August 30, 2023, 03:33:28 PM »
OK, I lied.  Having read Laura's sage advice I do have one thing to add to it, which is: before you start thinking about making any changes to your lifestyle, please think about the extent to which your marriage depends on keeping that lifestyle.  If you start to think about upending things without having your wife fully on board you may very quickly find yourself in the middle of a very expensive divorce.  In which case, steady as you are may be the better option.

If you are serious about change, this thread has some useful advice -

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-convert-your-so-to-mmm-in-50-awesome-steps/

charis

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #105 on: August 31, 2023, 07:27:27 AM »
I'll just ask: how do you know this isn't the "best"?


But if I paid off my mortgage tommorow, wife stopped working / got rid of nanny and we went public so we could retire in 10 years

Midwest_Handlebar

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #106 on: August 31, 2023, 09:16:33 AM »
Another reason is I still just struggle with what the right path is. I like a lot about my life. I love my family. love our neighborhood, love the area we live (other than the expense). I want my little guy (and potential future progeny) to have a great life and to provide the best opportunities I can for him. We're in a geographic and financial place where he can go to some of the best schools in country, public or private. but I also want to be able to spend more time with him and to work on what I'm most passionate about, which isn't my job. The expense side has gotten a bit out of hand and I've grown overly complacent if I want to accomplish freedom at an early age. I simultaneously feel incredibly blessed and secure, while also a bit trapped by my own addictions to luxuries and own misgivings about living in anything other than the little high achieving hard working hard spending bubble in which i find myself.

Take comfort in the fact that you have enough money for you and your family to live a great life now. Choosing to accumulate more to continue your current lifestyle is entirely your decision. If you're happy currently, keep the status quo. If not, make changes. You seem a bit anxy?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2023, 09:21:40 AM by Midwest_Handlebar »

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #107 on: September 01, 2023, 08:26:06 AM »
doing some thinking and not going add much of anything at this time, just wanted to thank everyone for the perspective thus far.

314159

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #108 on: September 01, 2023, 11:48:20 AM »
Wow, this really is a fascinating thread!

OP, how you find yourself burdened by the expectations of your upbringing? Someone on this thread wrote that you are doing great but you were raised with the expectation that you'd be exceptional. That pressure comes part and parcel with the expensive neighborhood, schools, etc.

If so, have you considered lightening that burden for your child(ren) by—rather than spending more and more on the most exclusive x, y, z—not raising them in the same vein of expensive, exclusive surroundings that you were raised in?

SunnyDays

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2023, 02:16:28 PM »
Here's something to consider:  the vast majority of people are average in every way.  They make an average income, live in an average house, went to average schools, drive average cars and have average kids.  Do you really think that they are all terribly unhappy and yearning to be richer, smarter, more educated, and be able to brag about their kids more?  The vast majority are not.  They are basically happy with their lives.  Happiness does not depend on any of the fancy stuff.

I spent my career working with the intellectually disabled, a fate many of us would shudder at.  But they were generally happy people.  The parents of some of the most handicapped kids you can imagine were generally happy people, once they got over the initial shock of realizing their kids' lives (and their own) would not be what they had planned.  Simple things became more meaningful than big achievements.

Isn't it the main goal of parents to have happy children?  Are all the bells and whistles necessary for this?  I doubt that most kids with fancy, expensive upbringings are any more satisfied with their lives than average kids.  In fact, it may be somewhat the opposite, with all the pressure and hyper busy lives.  You really need to examine who it is you're trying to cater to - your actual kid(s), your own ego, or your "lineage," both backward and forward.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!