Author Topic: Case Study - Loser?  (Read 7422 times)

Mrs. Green

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Case Study - Loser?
« on: January 16, 2017, 06:00:11 PM »
Case Study - Loser?

Last July I was offered a promotion at work - I work remotely from my home office.  The promotion would require more travel and occasional weekends.  I am a wife and a mother of young boys, so respectfully declined.  3 weeks later I was laid off :(

I live in a small town in the Midwest (less than 10,000 people) and jobs here are few and far between.  During my unemployment I interviewed for several remote jobs in my field, but nothing panned out.

Fast forward to November, and my old employer asked me to come back to work for them.  I was super excited as we had burned through most of our savings. Well, the new job offer was $20K less than I was making before - doing the exact same job!  Insulted.  Because I had no job and nothing on the horizon I took it.  It was close to Thanksgiving so I really tried not to be bitter and be thankful that I actually had a steady income, working from home, and am here for my children when the get off the school bus.

But... I really feel like a loser.  Who works for the same company, doing the same job, but actually gets a pay decrease after 3 years?   Insert punch in face.

I'm still actively job hunting. In fact, I had 3 interviews with a new company last week. 

In the  meantime, I could really use some help trimming our budget. 

Monthly Income:  $5,000

Mortgage Payment: $1,500 ($160K, 30 year mortgage, paying an extra $250/ month).

Car Payment:  $0!!  (We have 2 paid for cars.  When one dies, we will become a one car family. I work from home and my husband works only blocks away.  Plus we live in a small town and can walk anywhere.

Auto Insurance:  $100

Life Insurance:  $188 ($500K policies on my husband and myself)

Cell Phones:   $75 (Ting - 4 phones)

Internet:  $30

Water:  $50

Trash: $30

Gas:  $60

Food:  $500

Electric:  $220 (Just started hanging out all my clothes to dry, so no more dryer usage.  Also, I am washing dishes by hand)

Lawyer: $500 ($10,000 balance owed to our lawyer for step-parent adoption paper work plus some other work).  0% interest, but he has been very good to us and he is at the top of our debt snowball!

Student Loans: $500 ($60K total.  4% interest.  This debt keeps me up at night).

My Fun $:  $50

Husbands Fun $:  $50

Saving Accounts: (I like to plan ahead)
Boys Clothes / Activities / School lunches   $50.00
Car Fund (New & Maintenance)   $50.00
Home Maintenance   $50.00
Gifts - Birthdays / Christmas   $50.00
Vacations   $500.00

I would love your insight.  Obviously, we could trim our vacation budget, but we'd really like to travel domestically with our sons while they are young.  Definitely something we can look at further.

PS - We have only about $10K in retirement.  My company matches up to 4% in a Roth 401K and my husband has a state job, future pension.

Thank you so much!

« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 06:02:45 PM by Mrs. Green »

BlueHouse

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 06:09:36 PM »

Last July I was offered a promotion at work - I work remotely from my home office.  The promotion would require more travel and occasional weekends.  I am a wife and a mother of young boys, so respectfully declined.  3 weeks later I was laid off :(

Fast forward to November, and my old employer asked me to come back to work for them.   Well, the new job offer was $20K less than I was making before - doing the exact same job! 

I really hope someone with some employment law experience tells you to file an EEOC complaint or to sue because that is just shitty!  I hope that's not allowable, but I don't have any knowledge on the subject.  No, you're not a loser, the company is a jerk!  But good for you for doing what you had to do. 

Poundwise

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2017, 06:16:28 PM »
You're not a loser!!!  Your situation sounds similar to mine... I was a WAHM too, except that I quit and I haven't tried to go back to work yet.  I'm still proud that I was able to bring home the bacon and fry it up as well, and you should be too.

Your budget looks very reasonable to me (but I'm not a full-on Mustachian). The only suggestion I could make right now, is could you cancel your kids' phones for a while?  I know that it's very convenient, especially if they are in after school activities.  But how about asking them to phone from the school office or borrow their friends' parents' phones if they need to call you? They can probably still game on their phones without plans, if that's why they have them.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 06:18:54 PM by Poundwise »

Miss Piggy

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2017, 06:19:21 PM »
... that is just shitty!   

Not very helpful, but I absolutely have to agree with this. That's quite a punishment for turning down a promotion.

Mrs. Green

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2017, 06:38:22 PM »
They can probably still game on their phones without plans, if that's why they have them.

My kids are only 9 (twin boys).  They have little 2G phones and can only text and make voice calls (only to people programmed in their phones). I doubt we will ever buy them a "smart" phone :).  I think I could cut down in this category and only use wifi for data.  Thank so much!

datu925

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 06:42:17 PM »
+1 to what everyone else has said re: your job. I hope you get some other offers soon and can laugh in their faces as you give your two weeks' notice.

Have you looked into credit card hacking? If you pay off your credit card in full each month and are generally responsible (and it seems like you are), credit card bonuses in airfare or hotel points are free money that would allow you to reduce your vacation fund contribution without having to scale back your vacations. I estimate it saved me at least $3K this year - if we apply that to your family, you could reduce your vacation contribution by $250/mo. YMMV of course - I took some big trips, but I'm also just one person instead of four. I can say more if this is of interest.

Electricity seems high-ish. I'd try to do a more comprehensive evaluation to see what's using the most energy. Is your heating electric? You have a gas category but I couldn't tell if that was for your house or your cars.

$500 seems very reasonable for food for a family of 4, though I would imagine a small Midwest town is a pretty low-cost area. Probably worth looking into that since it's the largest category besides various debt payments (I may just be projecting since food is my largest area of waste).

Getting a new job with a salary closer to your last one would ease the pressure on the budget a lot as well, I imagine :)

datu925

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 06:46:51 PM »
Also, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you're paying $1500/mo for mortgage, minus $250 as extra payment -> $1250/mo? It seems like a 30-year, $160K mortgage seems like it should have payments far less than $1250. What's the interest rate?

Mrs. Green

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 06:47:06 PM »
Electricity seems high-ish. I'd try to do a more comprehensive evaluation to see what's using the most energy. Is your heating electric? You have a gas category but I couldn't tell if that was for your house or your cars.

Our house is all electric. I think it's our dryer.  I started, just yesterday, hanging out all our clothes on a make-shift clothes line in my basement.  I will know more in a few months if that's the reason.

Gas is actually fuel for our cars.  While we live in a small town, we have to drive to get to our kids' wrestling tournaments, etc.

Mrs. Green

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 06:48:36 PM »
Also, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you're paying $1500/mo for mortgage, minus $250 as extra payment -> $1250/mo? It seems like a 30-year, $160K mortgage seems like it should have payments far less than $1250. What's the interest rate?

I need to look at this more.  We have a "rural development" loan through the USDA.  I think our interest is around 4%, but will email our banker tomorrow to find out for sure.

THANK YOU!

datu925

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 09:09:52 PM »
Okay, let us know. I'm no mortgage expert, but when I put those numbers in an online calculator it suggests a payment roughly half that size.

Re: electric heating, that's probably the brunt of the electricity bill then. The dryer will help, but I assume most of it is for heating the home. You could try to work on that, though it can be a tough tradeoff, and it's hard to know what the ideal is since every home is different.

skeptic

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 04:44:46 AM »
Sorry to hear the situation has got you down.

Please, please don't beat yourself up or facepunch yourself for taking back the job at lower pay. In fact, I think you deserve respect for overcoming your emotions and making what it seems was clearly the best decision and in your best interest.

The lower pay is _not_ a reflection on you personally. The job marketplace is just about supply and demand... the same as for a farmer who worked just as hard this year as last year but, because of global forces beyond her control, was only able to sell the crop for half the price. In this case you said yourself that jobs in your area are "few and far between." Your employer may also have known about the overall supply/demand situation and also that you were unemployed and so not in a position to be picky.

After being unemployed myself a few years ago I took a job paying 20K less than I had been making. No regrets, and am now just shy of where I was before.

You avoided the trap I see people stuck in: "I made $50/hour for many years, so now I won't accept these jobs making only $25/hour" and then they are unemployed for years and years, sometimes forever. Or a variation: "We bought the house for $200,000 and put $40,000 in improvements into it, so it can't possibly be worth $180,000, which is the highest offer we've gotten after listing it for six months." Markets change... don't take it personally.

The good news is you'll have an easier time finding a new job now that you're employed. Perhaps they'll find out soon (when you leave) that the supply/demand situation wasn't as favorable to them as they thought. Or perhaps you'll be showing them your new job offer at 25k higher and asking them if they'd like to match it and keep you. Or maybe their lower offer really is the best you'll be able to get at the moment, in which case there is nothing wrong -- and everything right -- in working that job.

-----------

Regarding your budget, it looks good overall. Sure you could push things but it seems modest (other than the vacations, but hey, the goal is greatest happiness and you have said they are important to you). Have you double-checked/shopped around on your life insurance cost? It seems a little high but obviously without knowing your age, health, and the length of the policy this is just a shot in the dark. (Not that you need to share those things on the internet -- just for your own thought.)

$50/month seems a bit low over time for home maintenance but you know your home best. This seems enough for normal spending but not putting anything away for the eventual roof replacement etc.

Is this the whole budget, or just most of it? What about doctor visits? I guess you're not including health insurance because it is taken out from your paycheck automatically? If you buy a stamp, what does that come out of, your fun money?

I assume the $5,000 is pre-tax since it's a nice round number... have you figured out how much the taxes are/will be? If anyone is working as a 1099 contractor, have you counted self-employment tax?

For electric: unfortunately anytime you heat anything with electricity, it's expensive (house, dryer, hot water heater, etc). So I assume heating the whole house is the main driver of the bill, unless you live somewhere that doesn't require much heating. If you can turn down the temperature of your hot water heater without impacting your quality of life much, you will save something there too.

I also assume that even though you have "burned through most of your savings" that you still have enough in your emergency fund to warrant taking $6,000 in vacations/year? If it's there, go for it, but it's possible it makes sense to save cut back there to build up the emergency fund.

Cheers to you, winner!

Have fun

larmando

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 05:20:51 AM »
Okay, let us know. I'm no mortgage expert, but when I put those numbers in an online calculator it suggests a payment roughly half that size.

Re: electric heating, that's probably the brunt of the electricity bill then. The dryer will help, but I assume most of it is for heating the home. You could try to work on that, though it can be a tough tradeoff, and it's hard to know what the ideal is since every home is different.

Unless you have 160K *left* on a larger mortgage and the remaining years are less than 30. (as in, it started as 30-years but now you've been paying it for 10 or so).

MayDay

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 05:22:44 AM »
We have a family of four, and also like to travel. 6k a year. Is one pretty nice vacation, or two more regular ones.

I'd consider cutting the vacation budget in half until at least one of the debts is paid off. Either take the fancy vacation every other year, or be more frugal and travel annually.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 05:54:37 AM »
Maybe I missed this, you mention a husband, but nothing about him working?

Is the $5k/month your income? Or is it combined?

Mrs. Green

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 06:37:11 AM »
Maybe I missed this, you mention a husband, but nothing about him working?

Is the $5k/month your income? Or is it combined?

The $5K is after taxes and varies monthly as I am now an hourly employee.  My husband works as well.  He is a software developer turned high school teacher this year.  He absolutely LOVES his job and will work as long as he possibly can.

Also - I'm 38 and my husband is 49.  We are all in good health (thank G*d!!).  I am really considering changing our health insurance plan to the highest deductible and get rid of dental and eye insurance.  We do go to the dentist twice a year and I have one son who goes to the eye doctor annually.  I really don't see any reason why we can't pay for that out of pocket?  I really need to look into this deeper.

Also, as far as vacations.  We plan to take a modest summer vacation to San Diego (via Amtrak) for my nephew's high school graduation and we like to go to Florida over Christmas.  We buy our kids very little Christmas gifts and instead would like to go somewhere warm for 4 days.

Again, I am totally good with trimming the vacation budget which, at this point, makes the most sense.

Mrs. Green

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 06:40:50 AM »
One major thing I forgot to add was we have a rental house!  I owned it prior to marrying my husband. 

It's a cute little bungalow built in the 1930s.  We have had no problems renting it.  In fact, last time tenants flipped we had several offers.  We only make, after taxes and insurance, about $50 / month.

It's on a 30 year mortgage (25 years to go).

Because of my small town, the average rent price is about $850.  Should our tenant decide to move out this summer, I am going to try and get $975.


KCM5

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2017, 06:50:51 AM »
Is there a reason you haven't sold one of your cars? How much could you get for the one you're less interested in keeping?

Good luck on the job front. One thing - if you do get a higher offer from someone else, don't consider keeping your current job if they match it. They've proven themselves to be a terrible place to work that doesn't value your skills. Don't let the comfortable job tempt you. It's clearly time to move on. I only mention this because someone upthread said maybe they'll match your offer. Don't bother!

Also, someone who knows more about rentals would be able to answer if it's even worth it to keep the rental. I'm sure they'd need to know the mortgage amount, taxes and insurance. It doesn't sound like a good rental to me, but I'm just a person sitting behind a computer. Do the math and see if you should sell it.

Regarding vacation budget - seems like you could cut it by about $2k if you're careful with lodging and such.

Laura33

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2017, 07:49:49 AM »
One major thing I forgot to add was we have a rental house!  I owned it prior to marrying my husband. 

It's a cute little bungalow built in the 1930s.  We have had no problems renting it.  In fact, last time tenants flipped we had several offers.  We only make, after taxes and insurance, about $50 / month.

It's on a 30 year mortgage (25 years to go).

Because of my small town, the average rent price is about $850.  Should our tenant decide to move out this summer, I am going to try and get $975.

First, I agree with everything else said here -- you are not a loser at all.  A loser puts her ego above her family's needs.  Your willingness to suck it up and take the hit for the good of your family makes you a winner in my eyes.

Second, on the rental, I would definitely consider selling, but talk to a pro.  Even if it is easy to rent and nets a little cash each month, if it is empty even one month between tenants, you are now in the red for the year -- and that doesn't even count maintenance (at some point, the water heater will go, it will need a new roof, etc.).  Of course, that also doesn't account for the depreciation you can claim or the long-term equity you are building by having a renter pay your mortgage, so again, talk to an expert.  But I would be a little concerned about having cash/equity tied up in a property when you don't have enough cash on hand to cover the cost of a major repair if something breaks. 

Suit

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2017, 08:23:48 AM »
Why are you paying $250/mo extra on the mortgage? Why not send that to the student loans or legal debt?

And why not call off the Florida vacation for 1 year and throw that money at debt too? I strongly believe in traveling for family events like your Nephew's graduation, that's the important stuff in life. But with the $500 you have going to legal debt plus the $250 from the mortgage plus the money you would have spent on Florida you could be done with the legal debt in short order (since you called it your priority) and then next year throw the money you were throwing at the legal debt plus your regular payment plus the $250 at the student loan debt. (All of this assuming you have rebuilt your emergency fund, if you need an efund direct the $250 to that first)

Also, there are a lot of people on here with far more experience with rental properties so I won't give you advice on what to do with it but you should seek out their advice.

Stash Engineer

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2017, 09:37:58 AM »
Why are you paying $250/mo extra on the mortgage? Why not send that to the student loans or legal debt?

And why not call off the Florida vacation for 1 year and throw that money at debt too? I strongly believe in traveling for family events like your Nephew's graduation, that's the important stuff in life. But with the $500 you have going to legal debt plus the $250 from the mortgage plus the money you would have spent on Florida you could be done with the legal debt in short order (since you called it your priority) and then next year throw the money you were throwing at the legal debt plus your regular payment plus the $250 at the student loan debt. (All of this assuming you have rebuilt your emergency fund, if you need an efund direct the $250 to that first)

Also, there are a lot of people on here with far more experience with rental properties so I won't give you advice on what to do with it but you should seek out their advice.

Quoted for emphasis. 

You made the right decision to take your job back, even if your employer took advantage of you.  Now you have a cushion while you continue to look for a new job.  I also would not ask for a salary match or anything from your current employer.  As soon as you find a job with equal or higher pay that you think you may like, jump ship! 

Regarding the rental, you need to increase the rent.  You aren't making enough on it to justify keeping it as a rental right now.  If you think the market can bear $975, you need to raise the rent as soon as the lease goes month-to-month.  If you raise it to $950, that's an extra $1200/year which will be needed during vacancy or for repairs.  All it takes is one bad tenant for you to lose thousands of dollars (speaking from experience).  Whether or not you keep this house will depend on your risk tolerance.   If you sell this house, would you make any $$ on it that could be used to pay down debt?  If so, I would consider selling it. 

Gimesalot

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2017, 09:44:22 AM »
We do go to the dentist twice a year and I have one son who goes to the eye doctor annually.  I really don't see any reason why we can't pay for that out of pocket?  I really need to look into this deeper.

Check your health insurance!  My health insurance covers one eye doctor visit per year free of charge as part of the preventive care.  You may already have this coverage so you wouldn't have ot pay out of pocket.

Stash Engineer

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2017, 09:48:58 AM »
We do go to the dentist twice a year and I have one son who goes to the eye doctor annually.  I really don't see any reason why we can't pay for that out of pocket?  I really need to look into this deeper.

Check your health insurance!  My health insurance covers one eye doctor visit per year free of charge as part of the preventive care.  You may already have this coverage so you wouldn't have ot pay out of pocket.

Excellent point.  Mine does this too.

Catbert

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2017, 12:52:06 PM »
Okay, let us know. I'm no mortgage expert, but when I put those numbers in an online calculator it suggests a payment roughly half that size.

Re: electric heating, that's probably the brunt of the electricity bill then. The dryer will help, but I assume most of it is for heating the home. You could try to work on that, though it can be a tough tradeoff, and it's hard to know what the ideal is since every home is different.

I'm guessing that the payment include PITI (principle, interest, taxes and insurance).

I would quit paying extra on the house and pay more either on the SL or attorney bill. 

farmerj

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2017, 04:04:34 PM »
"My company matches up to 4% in a Roth 401K" - this is exceptionally good, and you should take advantage of it, if you can. 100% return on your money -- more than 100%, as you are lowering your taxable income.

You will want to sit down and figure out the likely income from social security and the pension -- in many places teacher's pensions are heavily backloaded, paying out, for instance, $x for 20 years of service, but $4x for 30 years.

I'll let people familiar with the calculations work out how much you should be expecting to clear on a rental property to make it worth your while. Personally, I worry that your assets are over-exposed to the local housing market, especially with one of you being a teacher (indirectly funded by the local housing market).

Concur with the person who noted the small amount budgeted for home (and rental?) maintenance.

Poundwise

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Re: Case Study - Loser?
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2017, 08:29:24 PM »
WRT vacations with kids, last year my husband found ourselves a little short on our budget because I had a nonpaying client who stiffed me for 5 months of work (talk about feeling like a loser!) It was my last job before I quit altogether because of family illness.  So, we skipped our usual x-country ski vacation, and our only trip all year was a 4 day/3 night camping trip on Cape Cod. We used to live on the Cape, so husband and I know it well to the point of boredom. We had all the camping equipment we needed, leftover from our student days, when we lived on a shoestring.

Well, that little vacation ROCKED.  We knew just where to go and what to do, no arguments or getting lost, I even got to use coupons for the whale watch! I think the total cost of the trip came in under $550, since we ate out only twice (yay cooking over a camp stove!) We packed in a lot into such a short time, without tiring out the kids, and they still speak as fondly of the trip as they did our three-week trip to Europe (where, I regret to say, there was a fair amount of hauling tired, cranky children around). And, to my surprise, my husband and I had a great time too, sharing what we knew with our children.

My point is that what may seem a tame vacation to you may be exciting to your kids. So if you only end up going to San Diego this year, or even if you don't get to go anywhere new this year, you may still end up having a blast.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!