Case Study: Financial Independence Retire EVER???

[lookingforadelorean]

That's an impressive list - congratulations.  I think you are going to get this done!

Thanks. I appreciate the vote of confidence!

[Scotland2016]

I've used Mint and YNAB before, but I much prefer everydollar.com. There is a free version which I've used for over a year now.

[LittleWanderer]

That's an impressive list - congratulations.  I think you are going to get this done!

+1  You have a great attitude about all of this.  Have you thought about starting a journal here?

[lookingforadelorean]

I've used Mint and YNAB before, but I much prefer everydollar.com. There is a free version which I've used for over a year now.

Thanks for commenting about this. It looks more like what I'm after. I'm not loving working with Mint.

That's an impressive list - congratulations.  I think you are going to get this done!

+1  You have a great attitude about all of this.  Have you thought about starting a journal here?

Thank you! No choice really. I can either continue to face palm myself or actually get to work, right? I am definitely thinking a journal would be helpful as I keep chugging along here!

[lookingforadelorean]

Hey, more questions.

We have $9000 left of DH's bonus. Plus, my mother decided to gift us with Christmas in July this year -- $1200.

What is the best use of this cash right now? Catch up with husband's 401K max contribution? Keep some aside in an emergency fund? Putting all of it in something like the 401K or paying off my student loan makes me nervous because then we'd have literally no EF at all.

Also, when MMM says to save 50% of your take-home pay, that's INCLUDING what you've already allocated to pre-tax retirement savings, right?

[Allie]

It’s so great to see that you are tackling all of this with such positive energy! 

If I were you (and I imagine there are others here who probably have better ideas), I’d take 8k and pay off the student loan...then *immediately* increase 401k contributions by the amount that is freed up.  You’d kill a higher interest debt and have some tax savings.  Some might say to put it towards iras, but I think that at 5.5%, you have a bit of a debt emergency.

I get the sense from reading your posts that you would do better not having access to money to spend.  I’d suggest maxing everything out (retirement vehicle wise), then auto deducting a huge percentage of after tax income to vanguard, and then seeing what fits in the space left over.  If forest school, pest services, gardening, car gas, a ridiculous grocery bill, etc. won’t all fit you can choose what matters most to you.  Hopefully, zoo stuffed animals and compost trash bins don’t make the cut!

I am not as crazy about everything as I used to be, but one of the coolest things about mmm is learning how to do stuff you never would have thought to learn before...gardening, appliance repair, cooking absolutely everything from scratch, composting, brewing, home repair, wood working, random crafts, travel hacking, etc.  the list goes on.  Between the library, YouTube, this (and a few other topic specific) forums, and google, I’ve learned so many things! 

You should consider drinking the kool aid and starting a journal.  :)

[veganpoledancer]

Hi there!  I also homeschool our 3 kids and live in the Seattle area.  :)

Here's where I see you can free up some cash:

1.  Sell the Kia and buy a beater in cash, or see if your husband can take the bus to work.  His company might even comp a bus pass.  If he takes the bus, this will free up tons of gas money, too.  You can save on car payment, car insurance, and gas with this one!  Save $460 on the car payment, at least $50 on insurance, and up to $200 on gas?  Total Savings $500 - $700/month.

2.  Cut your grocery spending!  We are also a family of 5 (3 boys, ages 15, 13, and 9) and we spend between $700 - $800/month.  Shop at Winco and buy lots of oatmeal, dry beans, etc.  Free up $400 - $500/month.

3.  Shop your internet.  We pay $40/month but we had to haggle for it.  Save $40/month.

4.  Cell phones - use Republic Wireless.  We pay $40/month for 2 phones.  Save $60/month.

5.  Trash/Recycling - $60?  What company do you use?  We pay $15/month in Bellevue.  When we were in Bothell it was more like $40/month.  Can you swap out for a smaller garbage can?  Save $20/month

6.  Lawn Maintenance - you say you don't have a green thumb and your husband doesn't enjoy yardwork...but that doesn't mean you can't do it.  Plus you have 3 homeschooled kids - they can help, it's an important part of their education!  Save $150/month.

I get not wanting to touch the kids' activities...especially for homeschooled kids.  They do thrive on some time with other students and teachers!  So I'd keep the school and the swim lessons for sure. 

Total Money freed up:  $1170 - $1470/month!

With this savings, I would make knocking out those student loans my first priority, then focus on maxing out retirement accounts.

Hey! Nice to "meet" you! And thank you so much for the helpful input. Groceries for sure are going to be getting a lot of our attention. We've been buying way too much packaged/convenience food, although we do mostly eat/cook at home. I will try Winco -- we mostly use Haggen because it's close. Do your kids ever balk at things like oatmeal and beans? My kids are pretty adventurous eaters, but they will also most likely rebel at some of the changes we'd like to implement.

Looking into Republic is on my to-do list today.

I wonder if our trash costs are higher because we have the three large cans -- one for garbage, one for recycling, and one for yard/composting. We do try to compost, and it goes into that commercial composting bin.

The lawn maintenance . . . I have zero excuses for, other than feeling overwhelmed by it. It's beautiful! But, it's a lot. It's out of my league. It was one of those things that was a rarity when we looked at homes, and I've always WANTED to be a gardener, so I told myself I would learn. We obviously need to address this major expense.

How do you frugally address homeschooling costs? Do you spend money on curriculum? Are you unschoolers?

Check out Homeschool Potpourri in Kirkland for used curriculum.  It's a well-maintained consignment shop for homeschool materials.  You can even get on a waitlist for certain items and they'll call you if it comes in.

Trash can - call your company and ask if they have lower prices for smaller bins.  We've lived in King County and in Snohomish County and have gotten a good price break for using the smallest garbage can in both.

[veganpoledancer]

It was exciting to wake up this morning and see the responses. Thank you all for taking the time to address my concerns. I also appreciate that it felt more like slaps than face punches at this point. I was expecting a bruising, and my husband and I both know we've done ourselves no favors in the financial realm so I've smiled and nodded along with your comments. Plus lots of sighing.

I have thought many times about trying to work alongside homeschooling. A popular option among homeschooling parents is to teach english online to foreign speakers. Does anyone have experience with that option?

I will also, of course, look into getting licensed here in WA. Returning part-time to counseling is appealing.

I'm honestly surprised no one has suggested selling our house. We'd rather not move, but would moving to a rental give us a big head start? Or is our house appreciating enough that staying put makes sense?

As a homeschool mom, I teach dance/fitness classes on a couple of evenings per week and sometimes Saturdays.  Works great with our schedule and bonus - I get paid to stay in shape. 

[Neustache]

If I were you (and I imagine there are others here who probably have better ideas), I’d take 8k and pay off the student loan...then *immediately* increase 401k contributions by the amount that is freed up.  You’d kill a higher interest debt and have some tax savings.  Some might say to put it towards iras, but I think that at 5.5%, you have a bit of a debt emergency.

I was going to suggest ^this as well.  Payoff that student loan, invest the rest, and increase your contributions by the SL payment amount you were making. 

[Neustache]

Hold on, I don't see your car payment listed as a liability (or I am missing it!) What is the balance on your car loan and the interest rate?

[lookingforadelorean]

It’s so great to see that you are tackling all of this with such positive energy! 

If I were you (and I imagine there are others here who probably have better ideas), I’d take 8k and pay off the student loan...then *immediately* increase 401k contributions by the amount that is freed up.  You’d kill a higher interest debt and have some tax savings.  Some might say to put it towards iras, but I think that at 5.5%, you have a bit of a debt emergency.

I get the sense from reading your posts that you would do better not having access to money to spend.  I’d suggest maxing everything out (retirement vehicle wise), then auto deducting a huge percentage of after tax income to vanguard, and then seeing what fits in the space left over.  If forest school, pest services, gardening, car gas, a ridiculous grocery bill, etc. won’t all fit you can choose what matters most to you.  Hopefully, zoo stuffed animals and compost trash bins don’t make the cut!

I am not as crazy about everything as I used to be, but one of the coolest things about mmm is learning how to do stuff you never would have thought to learn before...gardening, appliance repair, cooking absolutely everything from scratch, composting, brewing, home repair, wood working, random crafts, travel hacking, etc.  the list goes on.  Between the library, YouTube, this (and a few other topic specific) forums, and google, I’ve learned so many things! 

You should consider drinking the kool aid and starting a journal.  :)

Thanks so much for the helpful feedback! So, what I'm gathering here is that the EF is not the priority at this stage? I'm getting confused because I discovered the "investment order" and it lists EF at the top.

Meanwhile, you know, I have always been interested in do-it-yourself'ing. I've gone through spurts of making our own laundry detergent, I still always make our own foaming hand soap, composting, gardening, making our own yogurt and granola (which is pretty dang good, if I do say so myself), making water kefir, baking bread . . . none of it has ever stuck indefinitely (except the hand soap!). I think that's probably because I didn't HAVE to do it. I was never doing it out of what I felt was necessity, it was just something that interested me. I'm trying to think about things now in a different manner -- I actually DO need to figure out frugal fixes for a lot of our lifestyle elements. First up is groceries/cooking. We'll probably do our weekly grocery shop tomorrow, and I'm working today on how we can best spend $200 for the week.

As a homeschool mom, I teach dance/fitness classes on a couple of evenings per week and sometimes Saturdays.  Works great with our schedule and bonus - I get paid to stay in shape. 

This is awesome! Also, I know and love HS Potpourri. I'm hoping that by moving away from packaged/ready-to-eat items, we automatically cut down on trash and can move to smaller cans.

Making our first trip to Winco tomorrow. I'm annoyed that they don't allow people to bring in their own containers. But I'm still excited to check it out.

Hold on, I don't see your car payment listed as a liability (or I am missing it!) What is the balance on your car loan and the interest rate?

I'll have to get those numbers and get back to you. Thanks for the advice above!

[Nick_Miller]

An EF is ABSOLUTELY an priority, IMO.

I'd take $8K and kill that small student loan.

Then I'd take the other $2200 and make that your small/starter EF. And don't touch it (seriously) unless in case of bona fide emergency. You are a homeowner, have three kids, and depend on one person for all your income. I can't fathom an argument that you don't need an EF.

Personally I would squeeze that monthly budget for a few months and get the EF up to AT LEAST $10K. You might want to automatically have a certain amount, say $1500, be auto transferred to your emergency fund at the start of the month, and make your budget fit with the money that's left.

Now keep in mind this only works if you keep your hands off the money. Many people on this thread are (rightfully) concerned that with your family's track record, money on hand = money spent.

After you have a $10K EF, then I'd suggest diverting that $1500 or whatever to your husband's 401K, making forced savings every month a habit.

[former player]

For a different point of view about the emergency fund: it's heresy here but you may not need one, or much of one, given that you have large sums of money coming into your finances every month (your problem is spending not income) and that (I assume) you have access to credit.  Do you have any sort of savings account other than retirement accounts, or a float in your current accounts?  If so, treat that as your emergency fund for the moment.  After all, if your husband loses his job, which is the big emergency that might happen, you're fucked anyway and no few thousand in an emergency fund is going to make much difference.  Anything else should be able to go on the credit cards until the end of the month and the next injection of cash.

Your choice.

[Scotland2016]

Glad you like the looks of Everydollar! As for the emergency fund debate, I agree with the poster who said you probably shouldn't have access to large amounts of money right now. Use that money to pay off SLs or the car, then increase your husband's 401k contribution right away so you never see the "extra" money.

[lookingforadelorean]

Seriously great advice from everyone. Thank you, thank you.

We actually do not have credit cards (thought this was wise in the past to avoid accumulating debt). DH and I had this conversation last night, which prompted me to ask about the leftover bonus money. If we do not establish an EF, we could get a couple of credit cards to have on hand. But then, what if we did have a $10K emergency, or DH loses his job, and then we have debt with 26% interest? Is that just a risk we should take at this point?


@lhamo I actually own the Tightwad Gazette already. But I've never read it! I will now. Same with Vicki Robin's book.

Glad you like the looks of Everydollar! As for the emergency fund debate, I agree with the poster who said you probably shouldn't have access to large amounts of money right now. Use that money to pay off SLs or the car, then increase your husband's 401k contribution right away so you never see the "extra" money.

No argument there. We realize that if we keep the bonus in our checking account, we'll get to the end of the year with nothing to show for it.

[JGS1980]

It’s so great to see that you are tackling all of this with such positive energy! 

If I were you (and I imagine there are others here who probably have better ideas), I’d take 8k and pay off the student loan...then *immediately* increase 401k contributions by the amount that is freed up.  You’d kill a higher interest debt and have some tax savings.  Some might say to put it towards iras, but I think that at 5.5%, you have a bit of a debt emergency.

I get the sense from reading your posts that you would do better not having access to money to spend.  I’d suggest maxing everything out (retirement vehicle wise), then auto deducting a huge percentage of after tax income to vanguard, and then seeing what fits in the space left over.  If forest school, pest services, gardening, car gas, a ridiculous grocery bill, etc. won’t all fit you can choose what matters most to you.  Hopefully, zoo stuffed animals and compost trash bins don’t make the cut!

I am not as crazy about everything as I used to be, but one of the coolest things about mmm is learning how to do stuff you never would have thought to learn before...gardening, appliance repair, cooking absolutely everything from scratch, composting, brewing, home repair, wood working, random crafts, travel hacking, etc.  the list goes on.  Between the library, YouTube, this (and a few other topic specific) forums, and google, I’ve learned so many things! 

You should consider drinking the kool aid and starting a journal.  :)

Hello and welcome to MMM!

I agree with Allie, you should pay off the 8K Student Loan at 5.5%. Think of it as an investment giving you a 5.5% return forever... I'd take that!

A 2K Emergency Fund with a Credit Card with a 10 K limit [that you use only for emergencies] might also be prudent. An alternative would be a HELOC at a low rate using your home equity. A HELOC (home equity line of credit) would be much lower APR than a 26% credit card if a true emergency arises.

Groceries, Gas, and Cell Phones/Internet seem to be your low hanging fruit. Great job recognizing this and attacking it.

11% Pretax 401K contribution will max out your husband's contribution. This 19K a year gives you an immediate 22% return on your taxes (your current marginal tax rate -> it's basically a gimme). Take it!

Finally, I personally like MINT because it also tracks your Net Worth gains over time. This is HUGELY motivating on a month to month basis.

I look forward to following your progress!

JGS

[Steeze]

When do you get the next bonus, Christmas?

If it helps you sleep at night keep that money in a separate account until the next bonus. As soon as you get the next bonus pay off the loan. Then your EF is in tact. Will cost you a couple hundred for piece of mind, not the end of the world, anxiety is a killer. But you have to not spend it!

I have two sets of checking and savings accounts. One set is for my “bare bones” overhead costs; mortgage, insurance, utilities, groceries, subway card, cell phone, loan payments - the stuff I have to pay to keep my job and house. Other set is for discretionary spending; home maintenance, consumer staples, eating out, clothing, laundry, hair, vacation, gym, etc.

All my income is deposited into the bare bones checking account. An ‘allowance’ is transferred to my discretionary accountst. A set amount gets transferred to my brokerage account based on my savings goals. Any remaining (usually about 5%) stays in the barebones savings account.

Edit: all completely unnecessary, but helps me know what money is ok to spend and what is not. Helps me not feel guilty about spending, ensures I stay on my investment goals, and puts a limit on what I can spend. Once or twice a year I transfer any unused allowance money to my brokerage account.

[freya]

I'm posting to follow, too.  This is going to be a very awesome and rewarding turn-around to watch.

A small suggestion:  My sister lives in a rural area and has rodent issues.  I've been saving used cat litter for her, which she picks up when she comes to visit.  Scatter it around the base of the house, and voila, rodents disappear.  Seriously it works.  Got a neighbor with a cat who uses non-clumping pine litter?  Then you can fire the pest control company, who are busy putting things on your property that you and your kids probably don't want to be ingesting.

It would indeed be ideal to move close enough to your husband's workplace for him to walk, so you can go down to one car.  However, in order to do that you'd have to put off saving into the 401K, plus you may not be able to find a cheaper house than the one you have now.  It's probably worth a few minutes of your time to check out homes & prices on Zillow.   Otherwise...I'm assuming your husband's job is too far away to bike, but what about replacing a car with a cheap commute-mobile with very high mileage for him?  e.g. a used Prius. Also can he telecommute part time?

I also am seriously wondering where all your lifetime of earnings went to.  I think it would be an outstanding exercise for you and your husband to reconstruct your income and savings for as many years back as you can manage.  Make a spreadsheet with yearly estimated income and net worth, and then maintain it going forward.  This might give you some insight into the spending traps you fell into in the past, so you can avoid them in future.

Also, if you haven't done this already, set up an account on ssa.gov.  It will have your yearly SS income listed, which will help with the above exercise, plus your estimated Social Security benefit.  You won't need $2 million to retire because you can count on at least some of your SS, but it will be nice to have firm numbers to help you plan.

And one more item for your todo list:  if your income has been spent on accumulating stuff, where is all that stuff? Is it stashed into closets and drawers, or sitting in the basement?  It will do you no end of good to go spelunking through your house, de-clutter, and sell whatever is worth selling on ebay or craigslist.  Get the kids to help too!  Also with your mortgage you are probably itemizing deductions, which means you can donate stuff to charity and get an income tax deduction.  At your income level that may be more lucrative (and faster) than selling individual items.  Just keep good records for tax time next year.

[lookingforadelorean]

Hello and welcome to MMM!

I agree with Allie, you should pay off the 8K Student Loan at 5.5%. Think of it as an investment giving you a 5.5% return forever... I'd take that!

A 2K Emergency Fund with a Credit Card with a 10 K limit [that you use only for emergencies] might also be prudent. An alternative would be a HELOC at a low rate using your home equity. A HELOC (home equity line of credit) would be much lower APR than a 26% credit card if a true emergency arises.

Groceries, Gas, and Cell Phones/Internet seem to be your low hanging fruit. Great job recognizing this and attacking it.

11% Pretax 401K contribution will max out your husband's contribution. This 19K a year gives you an immediate 22% return on your taxes (your current marginal tax rate -> it's basically a gimme). Take it!

Finally, I personally like MINT because it also tracks your Net Worth gains over time. This is HUGELY motivating on a month to month basis.

I look forward to following your progress!

JGS

Thank you!

When do you get the next bonus, Christmas?

If it helps you sleep at night keep that money in a separate account until the next bonus. As soon as you get the next bonus pay off the loan. Then your EF is in tact. Will cost you a couple hundred for piece of mind, not the end of the world, anxiety is a killer. But you have to not spend it!

I have two sets of checking and savings accounts. One set is for my “bare bones” overhead costs; mortgage, insurance, utilities, groceries, subway card, cell phone, loan payments - the stuff I have to pay to keep my job and house. Other set is for discretionary spending; home maintenance, consumer staples, eating out, clothing, laundry, hair, vacation, gym, etc.

All my income is deposited into the bare bones checking account. An ‘allowance’ is transferred to my discretionary accountst. A set amount gets transferred to my brokerage account based on my savings goals. Any remaining (usually about 5%) stays in the barebones savings account.

Edit: all completely unnecessary, but helps me know what money is ok to spend and what is not. Helps me not feel guilty about spending, ensures I stay on my investment goals, and puts a limit on what I can spend. Once or twice a year I transfer any unused allowance money to my brokerage account.

Thank you, too. The next bonus will be February 2020.

I'm posting to follow, too.  This is going to be a very awesome and rewarding turn-around to watch.

A small suggestion:  My sister lives in a rural area and has rodent issues.  I've been saving used cat litter for her, which she picks up when she comes to visit.  Scatter it around the base of the house, and voila, rodents disappear.  Seriously it works.  Got a neighbor with a cat who uses non-clumping pine litter?  Then you can fire the pest control company, who are busy putting things on your property that you and your kids probably don't want to be ingesting.

It would indeed be ideal to move close enough to your husband's workplace for him to walk, so you can go down to one car.  However, in order to do that you'd have to put off saving into the 401K, plus you may not be able to find a cheaper house than the one you have now.  It's probably worth a few minutes of your time to check out homes & prices on Zillow.   Otherwise...I'm assuming your husband's job is too far away to bike, but what about replacing a car with a cheap commute-mobile with very high mileage for him?  e.g. a used Prius. Also can he telecommute part time?

I also am seriously wondering where all your lifetime of earnings went to.  I think it would be an outstanding exercise for you and your husband to reconstruct your income and savings for as many years back as you can manage.  Make a spreadsheet with yearly estimated income and net worth, and then maintain it going forward.  This might give you some insight into the spending traps you fell into in the past, so you can avoid them in future.

Also, if you haven't done this already, set up an account on ssa.gov.  It will have your yearly SS income listed, which will help with the above exercise, plus your estimated Social Security benefit.  You won't need $2 million to retire because you can count on at least some of your SS, but it will be nice to have firm numbers to help you plan.

And one more item for your todo list:  if your income has been spent on accumulating stuff, where is all that stuff? Is it stashed into closets and drawers, or sitting in the basement?  It will do you no end of good to go spelunking through your house, de-clutter, and sell whatever is worth selling on ebay or craigslist.  Get the kids to help too!  Also with your mortgage you are probably itemizing deductions, which means you can donate stuff to charity and get an income tax deduction.  At your income level that may be more lucrative (and faster) than selling individual items.  Just keep good records for tax time next year.

Thanks for the positive vibes! DH is going to look into more time working from home, however, that will also require some re-configuring around here. I think he doesn't feel as productive here because he's only able to work from his laptop versus the two monitors plus his laptop that he relies on at the office.

Yeah, I guess "stuff," along with eating out, gifts, frivolous spending in general is the only explanation I have for our lost income up to now. And, yes, selling some of that surplus is definitely something I plan to do. We have a pile of spendy, wood Waldorf toys in the basement that I feel confident we can get some substantial cash for.

[mistymoney]

Glad you like the looks of Everydollar! As for the emergency fund debate, I agree with the poster who said you probably shouldn't have access to large amounts of money right now. Use that money to pay off SLs or the car, then increase your husband's 401k contribution right away so you never see the "extra" money.

I love it too! Cancelling my YNAB, thank you so much!!

[Allie]

I’d suggest taking the left over money from the bonus and a couple grand from next month’s check and put in an account that you would have to go through such outrageous hoops to get the money only an honest to god emergency would cause you to do so.  Maybe start a cd ladder?  Maybe something at an institution that’s only online then cut up the access information or something. 

No offense, but looking at your income and bonuses compared to your outgoing list of expenses and comparing that to your current assets, it’s pretty clear that money is not just leaking but gushing out to random, consumer driven places (ie. Not savings vehicles).  With the exception of severe disability, medical crisis, natural disaster, and job loss, the emergency fund shouldn’t be touched.  You should be able to scrape together enough money to take care of just about anything in a couple months with some resourcefulness, discomfort, and belt tightening. 

I’m staying at home with my two kids and consider it part of my role to make money by saving it...if that makes sense.  Baking bread and keeping the grocery bill low is one way I contribute to the finances of the household.  I don’t home school, so I have more time for this, but there are plenty of ways that you can institute cost saving, knowledge boosting, life skill teaching, habits and expectations for you and your kids.  To be fair, we aren’t super mmm any longer, but when we had a debt emergency and were building the stash, it was amazing to see how every small chunk I saved added up.  Granted, we tried to get the big hunks under control first, but when you have massive debts it’s cars and housing and lattes and stuffies that all have to be examined!

[lookingforadelorean]

I’m staying at home with my two kids and consider it part of my role to make money by saving it...if that makes sense.  Baking bread and keeping the grocery bill low is one way I contribute to the finances of the household.  I don’t home school, so I have more time for this, but there are plenty of ways that you can institute cost saving, knowledge boosting, life skill teaching, habits and expectations for you and your kids.  To be fair, we aren’t super mmm any longer, but when we had a debt emergency and were building the stash, it was amazing to see how every small chunk I saved added up.  Granted, we tried to get the big hunks under control first, but when you have massive debts it’s cars and housing and lattes and stuffies that all have to be examined!

Just discovered your journal. I'm looking forward to reading through it! Do you discuss frugal breakfast ideas? Long ago, we used to do slow-cooker oatmeal, but I know my kids would turn their noses up at that now. I'd still like to ease back into it as a breakfast option, but I'm not expecting it to be pretty.

[lookingforadelorean]

Progress as of:

7/11
- Opened Discover Banking savings account at 2.1%. Deposited $1200
- Called WA state multiple times. No available humans. Emailed them my questions about getting certified here.
- Switched Hulu plan. -$40
- Switched to Visible for my cell. Got $100 virtual MC offer. Total savings for next 12 months: -$880 or -$73.33/month (That's CRAZY!!)
- Canceled:
Patreon. -$15
Audible. -$15
Kindle Unlimited. -$10
Music Unlimited. -$4

Total decrease in monthly expenditures (so far): $157.33

[Neustache]

Nice work!!! 

[Steeze]

Progress as of:

7/11
- Opened Discover Banking savings account at 2.1%. Deposited $1200
- Called WA state multiple times. No available humans. Emailed them my questions about getting certified here.
- Switched Hulu plan. -$40
- Switched to Visible for my cell. Got $100 virtual MC offer. Total savings for next 12 months: -$880 or -$73.33/month (That's CRAZY!!)
- Canceled:
Patreon. -$15
Audible. -$15
Kindle Unlimited. -$10
Music Unlimited. -$4

Total decrease in monthly expenditures (so far): $157.33

Make sure to tell DH to increase his 401k contributions by another 157.33 (pre-tax equivalent!) so the savings stay as savings! Way to go!

[cloudsail]

Is Forest School the one in Capitol Hill, at the Arboretum?

If you're interested, PM me for a free homeschool school that's probably about the same distance from you. It's run by Seattle public schools and our family loves it.

[lookingforadelorean]

Make sure to tell DH to increase his 401k contributions by another 157.33 (pre-tax equivalent!) so the savings stay as savings! Way to go!

Good point! Gah! See? My brain doesn't work this way yet.

Is Forest School the one in Capitol Hill, at the Arboretum?

If you're interested, PM me for a free homeschool school that's probably about the same distance from you. It's run by Seattle public schools and our family loves it.

No, this one is in Kenmore. Is the one you're talking about in Seattle proper?

[cloudsail]

Is Forest School the one in Capitol Hill, at the Arboretum?

If you're interested, PM me for a free homeschool school that's probably about the same distance from you. It's run by Seattle public schools and our family loves it.

No, this one is in Kenmore. Is the one you're talking about in Seattle proper?

Hmmm, yes, I forgot how far 30 miles north is. That's like, Marysville. It's probably too far for you then.

Off topic, but my husband and I are considering moving north or south of Seattle once we FIRE and kids finish at our current school, like maybe north to Marysville or south to Tacoma. Is there a good home school community where you live? You seem to be travelling pretty far in order for them to attend a program for homeschoolers. Do you have specific plans for high school? Our homeschool school goes up to grade 8, so that is a tentative date that I've set for moving.

[Allie]

Good progress already!  I find that it was easiest to go for low hanging fruit, then circle back over and over and move up the tree slowly.  I do write about food stuff every once in a while, then jump to something else.  I’ll put something up over there for breakfast ideas!   

[ATR]

Fantastic progress! PTF :-)

[lookingforadelorean]

Hmmm, yes, I forgot how far 30 miles north is. That's like, Marysville. It's probably too far for you then.

Off topic, but my husband and I are considering moving north or south of Seattle once we FIRE and kids finish at our current school, like maybe north to Marysville or south to Tacoma. Is there a good home school community where you live? You seem to be travelling pretty far in order for them to attend a program for homeschoolers. Do you have specific plans for high school? Our homeschool school goes up to grade 8, so that is a tentative date that I've set for moving.

Honestly, I feel like I've seen more groups in Tacoma. It seems like we have to drive to at least Bothell to get to the good groups. That said, we do have a great PPP here that people drive to be a part of. We have friends that come from Stanwood to participate in the PPP in our town. If my kids want to take more formal classes when they get to high school age, I'd encourage them to look into that, and for sure, we want them to do Running Start. Our oldest is also interested in the ORCA program in Everett. I would be tickled pink if she was accepted there.

Good progress already!  I find that it was easiest to go for low hanging fruit, then circle back over and over and move up the tree slowly.  I do write about food stuff every once in a while, then jump to something else.  I’ll put something up over there for breakfast ideas!   

Yes, that's how I'm feeling right now. Doing what I can, but constantly looking back over things to see where we can improve/change.

[cloudsail]

Thanks so much for the info, it's very helpful for us. We've noticed that you can usually get better bang for your buck in real estate south than north of Seattle. On the other hand, we have family in Vancouver, BC, so being north will allow us to drive there more often.

Back on the topic of your family finances, we're also trying to drastically reduce our spending so I'll be following along your journey! I totally get the "death by a thousand cuts," especially when it's so easy to buy stuff online nowadays. I actually hate accumulating stuff, so really trying hard to declutter and resist buying stuff you think you need because it's so easy. What I do now is, say a "need" for something arises, like recently my daughter and I wanted to do some painting projects and were out of white paint. I put it in my Amazon shopping cart but for the moment made do with what we had. Then a week later I'll reevaluate and see if we really "need" those things in the cart. I feel like this simulates the old days when we had to go to the store for anything we needed to buy, and ended up buying less things either because we couldn't find them or by the time we got to the store the need had passed.

[lookingforadelorean]

Thanks so much for the info, it's very helpful for us. We've noticed that you can usually get better bang for your buck in real estate south than north of Seattle. On the other hand, we have family in Vancouver, BC, so being north will allow us to drive there more often.

Back on the topic of your family finances, we're also trying to drastically reduce our spending so I'll be following along your journey! I totally get the "death by a thousand cuts," especially when it's so easy to buy stuff online nowadays. I actually hate accumulating stuff, so really trying hard to declutter and resist buying stuff you think you need because it's so easy. What I do now is, say a "need" for something arises, like recently my daughter and I wanted to do some painting projects and were out of white paint. I put it in my Amazon shopping cart but for the moment made do with what we had. Then a week later I'll reevaluate and see if we really "need" those things in the cart. I feel like this simulates the old days when we had to go to the store for anything we needed to buy, and ended up buying less things either because we couldn't find them or by the time we got to the store the need had passed.

We're having fun with the challenge of sourcing less expensive things. So far. This is still a journey in its infancy!

Oh, if you can go north of us, I would absolutely head that way. I do think the homeschooling opportunities seem pretty awesome around Mt. Vernon. And Bellingham has sooooo much great stuff, but of course, real estate there is super spendy.

[lookingforadelorean]

We got our payoff numbers for our student loans this morning. Mine is 7.9K. So. DH had an idea. We're going to pay it off entirely. That has been decided. But what if we got a credit card with a 0% introductory rate and paid off the loan with that? Then pay the credit card off, obvs.

I know you're going to say we can't handle the credit, but I PROMISE, we won't abuse it. We're both on the same page and committed to these changes. We currently have zero credit cards. We have a history of mishandling our cash, but we haven't racked up credit card debt. So, if we PROMISE to only use the card for paying off this debt, is this plan beneficial?

*Forgot to mention that I'm looking at two -- Capital One Quicksilver and AmEx Cash Magnet, which both offer 0% on purchased for 12+ months, and also 1.5% cash back.

[Allie]

The credit card would be beneficial if it were, instead of a 0% rate, a reward card with a great bonus.  I regularly grab cards with 400-600 in bonuses for travel or gift cards, spend the minimum necessary, and use the rewards for our trips or other spending.  The cards that let you transfer for 0% or no fees typically have no, or scanty, bonuses, so it’s a bit of hoop jumping for very little gain.

It is highly likely that paying a large fixed debt with a cc will incur other fees.  Like a 3% charge or something.  For an 8000 dollar spend, that will negate any bonuses or rewards points you may rack up.  I never pay my student loans or mortgage with my Ccs because the fees and charges, that are usually hidden in the fine print aren’t worth it for the cards that actually have rewards.

Plus, if you are new to the travel hacking game, honestly, this may not be the best time to start.  It sounds like a good idea, but I’d just start with those little baby steps and take the payoff and forever saved 5.5% as a huge win.

If you figure out how to pay off a student loan and get a huge bonus, let me know.  I have some loans I’d be happy to retire bits of for a 15% return!

[lookingforadelorean]

The credit card would be beneficial if it were, instead of a 0% rate, a reward card with a great bonus.  I regularly grab cards with 400-600 in bonuses for travel or gift cards, spend the minimum necessary, and use the rewards for our trips or other spending.  The cards that let you transfer for 0% or no fees typically have no, or scanty, bonuses, so it’s a bit of hoop jumping for very little gain.

It is highly likely that paying a large fixed debt with a cc will incur other fees.  Like a 3% charge or something.  For an 8000 dollar spend, that will negate any bonuses or rewards points you may rack up.  I never pay my student loans or mortgage with my Ccs because the fees and charges, that are usually hidden in the fine print aren’t worth it for the cards that actually have rewards.

Plus, if you are new to the travel hacking game, honestly, this may not be the best time to start.  It sounds like a good idea, but I’d just start with those little baby steps and take the payoff and forever saved 5.5% as a huge win.

If you figure out how to pay off a student loan and get a huge bonus, let me know.  I have some loans I’d be happy to retire bits of for a 15% return!

Thanks, @Allie . Does the fine print prohibit paying off the card balance immediately? Or does it actually stipulate the card can't be used for student loans? I feel like I read that somewhere once . . .

[dandarc]

Paying a student loan is typically not a "purchase" - this sort of thing will usually code as a cash advance or a balance transfer are extremely expensive with credit cards. Some places that will let you pay your loan this way charge you an extra fee to do so - may code as a purchase, but if you're paying 3% extra, you're typically coming out behind of any rewards.

You might be able to do a balance transfer though - many cards have 0% balance transfer rates for 12-24 months and a few of them even have a 0% balance transfer fee as an introductory offer.

On first reading, I thought your plan was to do that - transfer the student loan balance in full to a credit card, then pay it off over 12 or 18 months at a 0% interest rate. Which would save some interest vs. just paying the loan directly.

[Allie]

It usually doesn’t prohibit paying off the balance immediately, but it usually does include a fee for balance transfers (like from a student loan to a cc), even if there is 0% interest.  The benefits are usually (your DH May have a better deal and if so you should post it here so I can use it too) either a long term no interest/no fee card with a longer payoff so you can stick the cash you have into a higher interest account to make some dough over the course of a few months to a year before you pay it off...OR...you get a big bonus, but that is usually offset by fees.  I’d love the hive mind to educate me on this if I’m wrong, I have a ton of low interest student loans I’d be happy to shuffle around if I could make money off of them.

I’m thinking that you don’t have enough cushion to benefit from gambling on a higher return over the next 12-18 months.  Don’t take this the wrong way, it’s a gamble.  If you have 100k in the bank and, even if the markets crashed or you had a super emergency, you would be able to tap some cash to offset the outrageous interest and fees that would accrue if you didn’t pay it off, I’d say go for it.  But, you don’t have that cushion...yet.  One of the very best things about “living like no one else” for a while is that after you have a huge cushion, you can make some more risky decisions and leverage the cash you have and not have any real risk, if that makes sense. 

It may make sense, in the future, for you to get a credit card for regular purchases that has a travel bonus.  If you can spend 3-4 thousand on a card in 90 days, you often get a few hundred for travel purchases.  However, I’d recommend working on other stuff first, like groceries, gas, and all the little purchases that bleed away your husbands time.  Cause that’s what you guys are really spending, his time and energy.  When I started looking at it like that, my perspective changed quite a bit.  Not much is worth the stress and time my husband has to spend away from our family.

Anyway, you’re doing great!

[freya]

Usually, online loan payments by credit card incur a fee, so you'd end up paying ~3% up front either way you do it.  I can't think of any way for that to make sense, compared to just paying off the $8K loan now.  But, a 0% card would be a really useful way for you to swap out one of your cars for that used Prius, if you're so inclined!

You could also play the cash reward and bonus game with credit cards.  There are quite a lot of offers out right now.   I've collected a number of cards to maximize my cash back:  Amazon's Visa for the 5% credit, Amex blue cash for the 6% grocery stores and 3% gas, Citi Double Cash for 2% on everything else, and Chase Freedom for the 5% rotating categories that I rarely use.  Just be careful to pay them off in full every month, using your budget tracking app to put yourself into a mindful spending mode. You do get more return when you focus on travel benefits, but with 3 small kids and a need to maximize savings, that may not be terribly useful to you right now.

Anyway...nice progress!  Canceling subscriptions is a great start, because that truly is the death of a thousand cuts.  It's the first thing I did when I started really getting serious about saving.  I remember finding a recurring charge I wasn't even aware of, that happened when I bought something online that turned out to be a scam.  I ended up having to report it to the credit card company and changing the card number to get rid of it.

[lookingforadelorean]

Wow, we had our first weekly grocery shop at a new-to-us store last night. We stuck to our list with the exception of a store-brand bag of chips for $1.88. Grand total: $73.54!!! I. am. floored. Granted, we already had ground beef and brats in our freezer as well as pasta in our pantry. So our tab will most likely never be this low again. But, we're still pretty darn happy about it. Oh! And we discovered a Guatemalan whole bean coffee that is less than half the cost of the beans we were previously buying. Thank you so much for the Winco tip, @veganpoledancer !

@Allie @dandarc @freya Thank you for chiming in on the credit card stuff. Sounds like we're going to be much better off just paying off my loan and then researching our credit card options.

We got our budget all set up, and as of right now, we are hoping to have a $1400 surplus at the end of the month. This is the amount we have estimated because:
-- DH upped his 401K contribution to 10%
-- we created a budget to carefully track expenditures
-- we slashed as much discretionary spending as we're comfortable with right now
-- we shopped around for lower prices on things like my cell phone

In the past, our typical end-of-the-month scenario was that we had spent all of DH's paycheck, and then he would transfer $500'ish from his bonus into our checking so we could continue to spend. So, even if our budget estimate is way off for the rest of July, we're confident we'll be coming out miles ahead of usual.

@Allie I kind of want to have your mantra embroidered on a pillow or something. Where I can see it and be reminded on a daily basis. What a fabulous way of looking at our lifestyle -- none of us want to bleed away our husband's time. He would much rather be home with us every day, and we'd much rather have him here. Thanks for illustrating that perspective.

[dandarc]

+1 to what lhamo said. Always nice when someone seems to be pulling a mustachian 180 and sticking with it.

[Freedomin5]

Congratulations! That is amazing progress! Keep it up and you’ll be FIRE in no time.

And it does get easier. Once things are automated (e.g., WinCo becomes your de facto grocery store, you’re all set up on the cheaper insurance/phone/etc. plans, you’ve automated your savings), then you’ll basically save a ton of money each month without even having to think much about it.

[lookingforadelorean]

Every once in awhile someone tentatively shares their situation on these forums and it is touch and go in terms of whether they will stick around -- it is obvious they need help/are open to advice, but isn't so clear how they will react to the "tough love" (aka facepunches) they will get.  We do mean well, but some of us can be a bit harsh in our feedback!  You are clearly going to be one of the success stories.  Freeing up $1400 in one month (more actually, since you won't be dipping into that bonus any more) is AMAZING progress!  Congratulations on your progress so far.  Looking forward to seeing how this plays out for you guys in the coming months/years.

Also, note to self that I should really check out Winco one of these days -- it isn't close, but I'm up in Lynnwood/Shoreline enough that it might be worth adding to the shopping routine....

That's really very encouraging. Thank you. As for WinCo, it definitely grew on me as we progressed through the store. However, the produce was severely lacking, IMO. I should have taken a picture yesterday when DH held up a leftover Central Market green onion next to a WinCo green onion. Whoa. It was about 4x the thickness, but I'm sure it was probably 4x the price, too. I think the odds are we'll most likely opt to get our produce elsewhere.


@dandarc @Freedomin5 Thank you. The support is truly motivating. FIRE isn't possible, though, is it? I mean, the "early" part? My husband is 44. We're trying to come up with a fun acronym for our situation -- FIRS? Retire "safely?" Retire "securely?" FIRATRA -- Financial Independence Retire At Traditional Retirement Age? Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Ha!

[Steeze]

15 years is a decent target starting from 0$ saved. Maybe not super early, but ask anyone who is working in their late 60’s, 70’s or later how retiring at 60 would feel? My parents are mid 60’s and are planning on working until they are physically unable due to never saving a dime.

Figure out how to invest $4000/mo for 15 years and you will have enough to withdrawal $4000/mo for 30+ years. Sure, starting the FI journey at 14 would have been great, but at least your not already 65 just figuring out you need to save!

[lookingforadelorean]

15 years is a decent target starting from 0$ saved. Maybe not super early, but ask anyone who is working in their late 60’s, 70’s or later how retiring at 60 would feel? My parents are mid 60’s and are planning on working until they are physically unable due to never saving a dime.

Figure out how to invest $4000/mo for 15 years and you will have enough to withdrawal $4000/mo for 30+ years. Sure, starting the FI journey at 14 would have been great, but at least your not already 65 just figuring out you need to save!

@Steeze Please pardon my ignorance, but would we include DH's 10% contribution to his 401K in that $4000/mo figure? $4K/month is a little over half of his take-home pay after paying into 401K and HSA. When I've seen references to saving 50% of "take-home pay," I'm confused about what all that includes.

[Steeze]

Hah, I’ve always been a bit confused on that as well. $4000/mo is exactly that - just 4K/mo including everything, pretax, post tax, etc. get 4K into the market each month. FWIW I calculate my savings rate based on gross income to avoid the nuances.

[lookingforadelorean]

Hah, I’ve always been a bit confused on that as well. $4000/mo is exactly that - just 4K/mo including everything, pretax, post tax, etc. get 4K into the market each month. FWIW I calculate my savings rate based on gross income to avoid the nuances.

@Steeze Thank you, again! Man, if I just had a dollar for every tidbit of information I've learned this past week (it's only been a week?), I'd already be ready to FIRE. ;-)

[Allie]

I’m pretty sure when you see take home, it’s referring to after taxes and other obligations.  Retirement accounts and such are essentially paying yourself for being awesome!

FWIW, when it comes to produce, I will happily grab cheap and ugly over big and lush.  It all has to do with taste!  If you blind taste test a crappy green onion from winco and a nice green onion from elsewhere and the winco onion is vastly inferior, ok go with the better onion.  But, if it’s getting chopped and put into something cooked, grab the little ones and enjoy the savings.  Better yet, try whatever you make with it with a cheaper, finely diced regular onion.  There are lots of recipes where you can sub in less expensive ingredients and get the same flavor. 

The produce I grow in my garden is ugly af, but my little lopsided strawberries taste a million times better then the shiny, giant berries at the store.  Same with my little raspberries...the ones all red and glistening in the clamshells are so much less delicious!  And my carrots, my broccoli, my snow peas, etc.  Don’t let the idea that big, even, and unblemished is how produce should look steal your hard earned money!  Produce should come from nature and nature is dirty and imperfect! 

I buy what my mil refers to as “week old” produce at the store...clearance everything that’s a little ugly on the outside...but it tastes great!  I mean, really, I live in Alaska and it comes from Mexico.  There’s nothing in the store less than a few weeks old anyway.

Eventually, you can have your kids tending to a whole pot of green onions regrown from the bottoms of the onions as a home school project and have free onions for life!

[lookingforadelorean]

Eventually, you can have your kids tending to a whole pot of green onions regrown from the bottoms of the onions as a home school project and have free onions for life!

Great idea!

You can also buy some seeds for $2-3/packet and grow your own!  If you let the cilantro go to seed you'll also only have to buy seed once (I am currently letting some cilantro that grew from the seeds of seed I bought last year go to seed....).  Haven't tried Allie's onion growing tip yet -- have lots of those coming up from seed as well.

I've had horrible luck with cilantro the past two years, and so I didn't even try this year. I'm considering using my herb box for lettuces and kale, though. What do you think? I know people manage to harvest kale here year 'round.

[theskyisblue]

Thank you for starting this thread.  DW and I are in a similar situation, so I found it very helpful to see your exact numbers and everyone's advice (thanks everyone!).  Maybe when I feel more brave, I will put our numbers out there.

Here's what I found on Mental Health Counselor requirements for WA state:

https://www.doh.wa.gov/LicensesPermitsandCertificates/ProfessionsNewReneworUpdate/MentalHealthCounselor/LicenseRequirements

It seems like you may not be able to "transfer" a license.  Instead, you hopefully meet the education, work, and exam requirements from your previous IL license and you may just need to take the 36 hours of continuing education and apply for your WA license.

Continuing Education information:
https://www.doh.wa.gov/LicensesPermitsandCertificates/ProfessionsNewReneworUpdate/MentalHealthCounselor/ContinuingEducationInformation