Author Topic: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?  (Read 14369 times)

mountainfamily

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Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« on: April 20, 2017, 12:29:04 AM »
I erased this since I didn't want my detailed information on the Internet anymore, even if it was anonymous.

To summarize, I was asking for opinions on whether it was worth it to buy a really crappy house, tear down, and re-build in Seattle rather than spending $600k or more on a home that needed lots of work. Many homes in the 500-700k range need hundreds of thousands of dollars of work, so, being the thorough person that I am, I began exploring buying for less then doing a drastic remodel or tear down. I've now had detailed conversations with contractors and lenders and realized that complete tear downs are not doable for average people, but a studs-out remodel might work for us in the right situation.

I'll leave our details at this: we're tied to our specific part of Seattle due to our jobs, which are highly satisfying, specialized, and took a long time to build up. We "qualify" to go to $700k for a house, but we'd never do that unless we could rent out a unit in the basement to offset the costs. We have a good amount of cash and stocks that can be sold, make decent money but not nearly as much as many Seattle workers do, and save quite a bit every year. Our rent was recently raised drastically and we hope to start a family soon, which is putting pressure on us. Trying to remain patient and take the bigger-picture view here.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 03:14:17 PM by mountainfamily »

KungfuRabbit

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 08:19:01 AM »
I spent a lllooonnnnggggggg time looking at something similar, but in the Twin Cities. Basically we wanted new construction, but we didn't want a lame cookie cutter new construction neighborhood. The empty lots in the area are few and far between, and either crap or stupid expensive.

We looked at tons of "livable but not worth fixing" houses to live in for a while and save money, then take a bulldozer to it.  The economics just never worked out...that house that is livable still had value, and the act of demoing it costs another $30k or so, and you are homeless for 6 months while paying that mortgage....all in all it seemed to show you are throwing at least $200k down the toilet.

What we ended up doing is buying a 1960s not at all updated house. It was ugly as hell, but the guts were top notch. So we gutted and rebuilt it, but it was all cosmetic - no need to fix the foundation or structure.  We're happy with the result.

All my numbers are for the twin cities though...land is a lot cheaper here...but I'd at least advise you to do similar math (if you spend $1,000,000 is the final product worth at least $1,000,000, or is it actually only worth $800,000).

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 09:48:36 AM »
I'm watching my immediate neighbors do the same thing. They are living with family members nearby and have two small children. There's no way this cannot be taking a toll on their marriage, family and their wallet. I doubt if it's worth it. This is a complete teardown but they still have a garage with 1BR+1BA, which was newer than the original house. This means they have a place to store materials, but the job has still been a nightmare.

Contrast with a neighbor around the corner. They added on and did some overall upgrades. They lived in a trailer in their backyard and were back in the house within 4 months.

The rain in Seattle is also a serious factor to be considered, hence the value of pre-fab/modular.

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 10:40:10 AM »
After our meeting with U-Build-It, the $300k estimate does include everything for a 3 br/2 ba house that's about 1600-1800 square feet (permitting, demo, construction, all finishes). My next door neighbor did it and had it completed in 6 months.. The homeowner acts as the project manager and hires all the subcontractors - U Build it gives a list of subs they regularly use. Neighbor said it was 5-10 hours a week in the beginning, then 2-4 hours per week for the rest of the time. She said it was busy, intense sometimes, but overall she had a great experience. She got a short-term rental nearby and visited the site almost daily.

Yes, it would be a few years of living in a sub-par house, then about 6 months of daily project management, but a major remodel could take almost as long, or doing a remodel in stages could get even more prolonged. I've simply seen that many houses in our price range have fundamental flaws that would cost almost as much to fix as building anew. In Seattle a 5000 sq foot lot alone is worth $500-600k depending on the location. I recently saw a 1/4 acre double lot with a tear-down house on it list for 1 million and sell for $1.2 million within two days. It will be split and two large, $1.5+ million houses built on it.

Keep those questions and ideas coming! We're still in the "is this something we want to consider" phase and even if we don't go this route we will have still learned a lot.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 10:46:15 AM by mountainfamily »

wanderin1

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 06:49:50 PM »
A couple of questions:

1. What will be the impact of the U-build project on your client base and income? Do you think it will be anything more than just renting an alternate space for a half year or so?

2. Wasn't quite clear whether you are planning to take on this project before or after you started your family. If after, are there additional kid-related impacts to consider?

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 09:48:42 PM »
A couple of questions:

1. What will be the impact of the U-build project on your client base and income? Do you think it will be anything more than just renting an alternate space for a half year or so?

2. Wasn't quite clear whether you are planning to take on this project before or after you started your family. If after, are there additional kid-related impacts to consider?

1. My business won't be too affected by a remodel. It would be uncomfortable but I'd keep my clients and possibly be able to rent a space short term.

2. I think kids would happen in the middle of this..
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 11:03:23 PM by mountainfamily »

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 09:50:43 PM »
I feel your pain.
Anyway, don't have practical advice to offer, but lots of sympathy and interested in following if you decide to take this route -- please report back!

We're looking exactly in that neighborhood! Lake City is the last semi-affordable place in NE Seattle. I wish those developers would just put in a 4-plex of townhomes/apartments that normal families can live in, instead of those horrible boxes that fill up the lot and are the same size as a row of townhomes. Don't worry. If we tear down and build in your 'hood it will be traditional-looking house and we'll be considerate of the neighbors with our house design and construction mess :)

Also, $800k does not guarantee the house is nice. This week I walked through a $799k property that was a total disaster - bad addition, ungrounded plugs, icky layout, dated everything, smelly.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 09:54:10 PM by mountainfamily »

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2017, 12:01:26 PM »
We just bought a house in Seattle and are about to sell our old one, so I'm pretty familiar with the market conditions here.

You mentioned you didn't want to spend much more than $600k on an existing house, but then you're willing to spend $500k on a lot and another $300k on construction costs. Why not split the difference and find a decent house for $700k? You could spend $100k fixing it up and still come out ahead compared to the teardown route.

GetSmart

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2017, 12:11:59 PM »
I would encourage you to really run the numbers so you know what you're getting into.  Using a bank rate mortgage calculator or equal - it appears that you could afford something around $680k but that is with a downpayment of $150k.  That gives a monthly payment of $3024.

Putting in a number of $800k (500 for lot and 300 for build) and assuming 5k prop. taxes and 2.5k insur. is a PITI of $3680 x 12 = 44160.  That is half of your take home pay.  And that is with a 160k down payment.  I don't think you're there yet -- although I just realized you have an investment account which I'm assuming you'd cash out -- but capital gains? 

You might want to look into rosschapin.com -- they provide stock plans that are traditional - if that's the route you're going.  Also have plans for backyard in-law houses.  And they are now partnering with ShelterKit - kit houses that you can build yourself if you're up for that. 

If you do go the tear-down route - I would personally build a small backyard cottage to live in until you can afford to do the bigger house - then the smaller one becomes rental income.  Also figure out how much space you'd really need -- a smaller house is much more manageable, less taxes, less maintenance.  Be careful about overbuilding just because a modular 'appears' less expensive.

Although, considering everything the listing that lhamo posted seems reasonable and it's done!  You definitely want to be finished with this project before even thinking about having kids :)

One more thing - it can be worthwhile to hire an architect or engineer for an hourly fee to walk thru any potential purchase - they can see the potential in a renovation or the lack of potential if it truly needs to be torn down.

Good luck !



mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2017, 10:11:16 PM »
Thanks for all the input, everyone. This idea came about because we are pre-approved to go to the mid-600s or even low 700s, but that felt risky because getting a house for $600k involves starting with a house priced in the $500s and bidding up. Many homes need work, and a $3000 per month mortgage plus $100k+ of renovations sounded terrible. There's no point in bidding on a home priced at $620k, because we have to pay $500 for a pre-inspection and sewer scope just to make an offer, and we will likely get outbid. We can save up for the next price point, but by that time the market may have risen another 10%.

Researching building has been enlightening and has helped inform our strategy. We are not ruling it out entirely. Unfortunately, building costs in Seattle are rising as quickly as house costs. A few years ago, one could build something nice for $200/square foot, but now wait times for contractors are long and the prices keep going up.

After some more thought, we might now wait for a small, nicer 800 sq foot cottage on a good lot in one of North Seattle's last 'affordable' neighborhoods, which we could hopefully get for $450-525k, which would be a much more reasonable mortgage of $1900-2300 per month. We'd build a detached studio for teaching, then maybe add on to the main house later. (Or, just have one child and never need to expand, although I really want two kids..) Irritatingly, many of these properties have no garage and zero closets.

Until now, we had been renting an 800 square foot cottage for cheap and it sounded foolish to buy effectively the same thing, pay $1000/month more for it, and take on the inevitable renovations. However, today our landlord raised the rent by a lot.

It's too bad that all the high-paying jobs are concentrating in the cities and driving the prices up like this. And, oh yes, I have fantasized about ditching this overpriced, traffic-ridden city and moving elsewhere, but our jobs are rewarding and we don't have the cash to be financially independent yet.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 11:05:53 PM by mountainfamily »

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2017, 10:27:39 PM »
I just left the Seattle area. I know it is very, very difficult to actually "win" a property so to speak. Our rentals were very painful to get and I know now it is even worse.

Reading through your savings/income tells me that your best bet is to find that smaller cottage house in a coming neighborhood and add on, as well as add your small studio.

People come in with full cash offers these days, I just don't know how they do it!

I wish you the best of luck, there should be something small out there for you. Alas it will likely be outdated and of course need work even at that $500k mark as crazy as it sounds.

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2017, 10:33:00 PM »
I just left the Seattle area. I know it is very, very difficult to actually "win" a property so to speak. Our rentals were very painful to get and I know now it is even worse.

Reading through your savings/income tells me that your best bet is to find that smaller cottage house in a coming neighborhood and add on, as well as add your small studio.

People come in with full cash offers these days, I just don't know how they do it!

I wish you the best of luck, there should be something small out there for you. Alas it will likely be outdated and of course need work even at that $500k mark as crazy as it sounds.

Trust me, I have spent much of the past 8 years wishing I could live elsewhere, but at this point we're staying. I'd be starting over with my business and my husband needs to be at a major research university.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 10:54:08 PM by mountainfamily »

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2017, 10:59:33 PM »

People come in with full cash offers these days, I just don't know how they do it!


Stock options, signing bonuses, dual six-figure income households, loans from wealthy parents...

bigalsmith101

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2017, 05:34:02 PM »
This one is nice and priced decently -- it will probably go for over list, but might be worth an offer.   The garage could probably be converted to a studio if there is not room for a separate little studio somewhere on the property (might be tight due to creek setbacks:
https://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/2713-NE-106th-Pl-98125/home/112085

I'd be willing to bet that that house sells for $675k. Aka, roughly 105% of the Redfin estimate.

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 09:21:53 AM »
This one is nice and priced decently -- it will probably go for over list, but might be worth an offer.   The garage could probably be converted to a studio if there is not room for a separate little studio somewhere on the property (might be tight due to creek setbacks:
https://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/2713-NE-106th-Pl-98125/home/112085

I'd be willing to bet that that house sells for $675k. Aka, roughly 105% of the Redfin estimate.

I walked through it. It's a really unique and gorgeous property and the house appears to be in wonderful shape. I'm guessing $700k.

moosejaw

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 11:48:37 AM »
I feel your pain in the Seattle market.  We luckily got in during 2004, and 2006(prior to crash but had 2 rental units supporting the mortgage cost.)  10 years later we sold our home in a desirable area of Seattle, and bought on Mercer Island.  This was partly due to the schools for our kids, job for my wife on MI, and getting a realized gain on the home we sold.

Similar to your experience, I wanted to be in the 500-600k range and potentially have a paid off house. Due to everything you mentioned, multiple offers, cash offers and the competition we bought a more expensive house in order to limit competition and potential of 30 offers that fall through.

Looking at your situation, I don't find it enviable in this market, and am unsure if your goals are realistic if you start a family.  As a person with 2 children...UGH.

Personally, I love the Shoreline area due to tax rates, providing you find a great place west of the 99 freeway just past the Fred Meyer.  I feel that there are still deals to be had there, and if you go south of Seattle in the Burien/Des Moines area near the water...those are the places that still have value IMO. 

Everything else is SOOO costly and competitive I would have a hard time moving on any of those places.  As an owner of multiple homes in Seattle here are issues I have dealt with as an owner in a 10 year span:

-Rats
-New Furnace (5k)
-New Roof (11k)
-Redo retaining wall (20k)
-Flooded basement (5k)
-Sewer redo (18k)

Yes it's the cost of doing business, which leads to the building your own home.  I have never done a modular home but agree they appear to be getting much better in quality and appearance.  I guess the question is where would you buy the land, and will it meet the standards in what you want, not to mention maintain a value in the after market as a modular home.  Sunset magazine put out a Breezehouse design which I have always loved. 

My friends experiences building their own homes often leads to divorce.  The cost they usually set at 125-150 sq/ft is usually met with a surprise that the home they want is 250-300 sq/ft making a 2000 sq/ft home 500-600k in building costs.  I have yet to run into anyone that has built a decent home for less in the Seattle area.  You might save 25% as the project manager, but be ready for potential marital strife.

Sorry if I appear to be all gloom and doom, but my biggest concern is when you buy or build will you be happy and can you KEEP the home once you're in it and have your payments set.  Not to mention a goal of 15 year pay off is a good one.

I love the position you're in, but the Seattle market is TOUGH.

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 12:35:47 PM »
Hello MMM community!

 We believe that Seattle property will greatly increase in value over the 20-30 year timespan we would own it. Seattle is a desirable place to live with a strong economy and a limited supply of land, and it's one of the few places we can do our jobs.

While I generally agree with you I think that all it would take is a major event to change that. Think Mt Rainier eruption or 9.0 earthquake. Either of those events could cause the market to plummet. Not that that is a reason not to buy, but something to consider.

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2017, 10:27:58 PM »
Hello MMM community!

 We believe that Seattle property will greatly increase in value over the 20-30 year timespan we would own it. Seattle is a desirable place to live with a strong economy and a limited supply of land, and it's one of the few places we can do our jobs.

While I generally agree with you I think that all it would take is a major event to change that. Think Mt Rainier eruption or 9.0 earthquake. Either of those events could cause the market to plummet. Not that that is a reason not to buy, but something to consider.

Agreed. That's why we only consider properties that are out of liquefaction/flood/tsunami zones! ;)

waltworks

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2017, 10:55:13 AM »
If you look back at census data, roughly 40% of the largest metro areas in the US lost population in the last 40 years or so (I can dig up the thread where Maizeman pulled up those numbers). The point is - don't count on appreciation for anything, even if where you live seems just amazing right now. Times change, overall housing prices track inflation, and you don't know anything about what will happen in 20-30 years.

I think the buy/scrape/build plan is fine if you truly don't care about FIRE. Because your income isn't crazy high, your other expenses aren't crazy low, and you're going to be dropping a cool million bucks on this project by the time you're done, I'd guess. If not more. That's an awful lot of house when you could rent for $3k a month.

IMO your kids won't care if you live in a rental house or you build a "beautiful" one. So my vote is no (to buying property at all) unless there's a crash and you can get a place much, much cheaper.

-W

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2017, 12:43:56 PM »
I didn't see it, but I'm also guessing it'll go to $700k.    There is so little inventory right now and that is actually a NICE house for the 500-700k range, compared to most of what is listed right now in 98125.
This one is nice and priced decently -- it will probably go for over list, but might be worth an offer.   The garage could probably be converted to a studio if there is not room for a separate little studio somewhere on the property (might be tight due to creek setbacks:
https://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/2713-NE-106th-Pl-98125/home/112085

I'd be willing to bet that that house sells for $675k. Aka, roughly 105% of the Redfin estimate.

I walked through it. It's a really unique and gorgeous property and the house appears to be in wonderful shape. I'm guessing $700k.

Looks like Redfin increased it's estimate to just shy of $685k. At that rate, and the fact that it appears well taken care of, at the end of a culdesac, near a park, in a nice area, with a good sized yard and two car garage. I won't be surprised if it's $715k.

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2017, 02:25:34 PM »
I don't know if you've run the numbers on a rehab loan that converts to a mortgage post-construction, but we found this to be far less expensive than new construction and/or dealing with a tear-down (and we had a surprisingly good rate with US Bank).  We're ~90 miles N of Seattle in a desirable town and couldn't find a house with the layout, location, and lot size we wanted in our price range, but were able to buy an aesthetically disastrous house (but good bones) in a good location, and turn it into what we wanted.  This was 6 years ago and we have ~$300K in equity in the house now.

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2017, 10:04:15 PM »
If you look back at census data, roughly 40% of the largest metro areas in the US lost population in the last 40 years or so (I can dig up the thread where Maizeman pulled up those numbers). The point is - don't count on appreciation for anything, even if where you live seems just amazing right now. Times change, overall housing prices track inflation, and you don't know anything about what will happen in 20-30 years.

I think the buy/scrape/build plan is fine if you truly don't care about FIRE. Because your income isn't crazy high, your other expenses aren't crazy low, and you're going to be dropping a cool million bucks on this project by the time you're done, I'd guess. If not more. That's an awful lot of house when you could rent for $3k a month.

IMO your kids won't care if you live in a rental house or you build a "beautiful" one. So my vote is no (to buying property at all) unless there's a crash and you can get a place much, much cheaper.

-W

I agree with this...we bought in 09 after the crash and prices continued to crash after that. We bought after a loooooong wait in the overheated market in Seattle. We wound up regretting it because we bought into a development which I have posted on these before that are just unwise investments. After taking a loss on that, we then re-evaluated everything, enacted patience and waited for the perfect opportunity as the markets continued to fall and we bought a house that was 200K off of it's original sale price in 07. We bought out and away from the mainstream which I know does not work for this couple so understand that but patience is key here. Our house has gained back that 200K and more. We will live here for a long time.

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2017, 10:59:28 PM »
We are still looking, and we do have a really good real estate agent.

We just made an offer on a house today and lost. It was a great house in a less popular part of town that we would have loved to stay in for 30 years, so we pushed our price limit a bit higher, offered 20% over asking, and waived all the contingencies. However, the winning offer was "substantially higher" than ours. We think it went for $250k over asking.

Meanwhile, our rent will be $900 higher than it was a year ago by the time our landlords are done with us.

waltworks

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2017, 08:53:45 AM »
2005 called, it wants it's housing bubble back.

People are waiving contingencies? Great sign to stay the hell out of the market (or if you have a house, sell it).

-W

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2017, 02:29:51 PM »
2005 called, it wants it's housing bubble back.

People are waiving contingencies? Great sign to stay the hell out of the market (or if you have a house, sell it).

-W

I hear you. I've been watching this housing market inflate for the past three years, reading nearly every list/sell price in my neighborhood, thinking "bubble" the whole time. So far, it keeps going up, but it's reached an even more feverish pitch this spring. We genuinely want a home to live in long term, not to be a real estate tycoon, and our rental will not work with a baby and my home based business.

Seattle is a very unhealthy housing market and there is a lot of bad behavior. I admit we have done some of that, ourselves. Waiving all the contingencies is what sellers in Seattle now expect. Houses list on Wednesday and review the 10+ offers the following Tuesday. Buyers get tired of paying $500 for a pre-inspection, then losing the house anyway, so they top caring and get ruthless.  We waived all contingencies recently only because the house was in excellent shape and we wanted to stay in it for 30 years. Unfortunately, people with much deeper pockets felt the same way and we got soundly defeated.

waltworks

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2017, 09:47:31 PM »
Rent some other bigger place.

Buying makes no sense if the market is as you've described.

-W

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2017, 11:41:54 AM »
Rent some other bigger place.

Buying makes no sense if the market is as you've described.

-W

Yes, we just signed another year lease, since the small house we currently rent will work for another year, though I am not thrilled about the idea of spending another winter in this little uninsulated shoebox. After that, we'll hopefully have a kid and probably need to move. Last year, prices were such that buying was a little better than paying the rent we do now, and bidding wars were a little tamer. Now, it's escalated out of control, and buying a house that's decent seems to be out of our reach once again. Renting a bigger place might be an option in the future, but many speculators are buying properties, renting them for a few years, and then selling them for higher.

I think we'll take a few months to re-group, then start thinking about reinvesting that down payment cash.

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2017, 04:03:52 PM »
Rent some other bigger place.

Buying makes no sense if the market is as you've described.

-W

Yes, we just signed another year lease, since the small house we currently rent will work for another year, though I am not thrilled about the idea of spending another winter in this little uninsulated shoebox. After that, we'll hopefully have a kid and probably need to move. Last year, prices were such that buying was a little better than paying the rent we do now, and bidding wars were a little tamer. Now, it's escalated out of control, and buying a house that's decent seems to be out of our reach once again. Renting a bigger place might be an option in the future, but many speculators are buying properties, renting them for a few years, and then selling them for higher.

I think we'll take a few months to re-group, then start thinking about reinvesting that down payment cash.

As a father of 2 small kids, trust me, you don't need a bigger house for kids until they're much much older.  Babies and toddlers take up little extra room. Even if you did have more space they'd still just end up wherever you were anyway.

waltworks

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2017, 06:35:14 PM »
As a father of 2 small kids, trust me, you don't need a bigger house for kids until they're much much older.  Babies and toddlers take up little extra room. Even if you did have more space they'd still just end up wherever you were anyway.

+1 on that. We have 2 little ones (now 2 and 5) and they will end up in the same room with you when they're really little anyway. Pretty basinets and decorated kids rooms just gather dust. Their clothes and diapers take up maybe a couple cubic feet. Don't sweat the space for infants.

Teenagers, I'm told, are a different story.

-W

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2017, 07:37:18 PM »
As a father of 2 small kids, trust me, you don't need a bigger house for kids until they're much much older.  Babies and toddlers take up little extra room. Even if you did have more space they'd still just end up wherever you were anyway.

+1 on that. We have 2 little ones (now 2 and 5) and they will end up in the same room with you when they're really little anyway. Pretty basinets and decorated kids rooms just gather dust. Their clothes and diapers take up maybe a couple cubic feet. Don't sweat the space for infants.

Teenagers, I'm told, are a different story.

-W

Totally agreed about size - I think we could raise 2 kids in our current 800 square foot rental house easily (1 bathroom might suck at times, but we could adjust). The tricky part is that I run a busy, loud music studio business from my 800 square foot rental and I have more than 60 people coming and going per week, early morning, late night, taking over half the house, rehearsals, lessons, workshops, etc.. Renting space for my business would be prohibitively expensive. We might have to do a nanny share at someone else's house or something. 

mountainfamily

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2017, 10:32:28 AM »
I didn't see it, but I'm also guessing it'll go to $700k.    There is so little inventory right now and that is actually a NICE house for the 500-700k range, compared to most of what is listed right now in 98125.
This one is nice and priced decently -- it will probably go for over list, but might be worth an offer.   The garage could probably be converted to a studio if there is not room for a separate little studio somewhere on the property (might be tight due to creek setbacks:
https://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/2713-NE-106th-Pl-98125/home/112085

I'd be willing to bet that that house sells for $675k. Aka, roughly 105% of the Redfin estimate.

I walked through it. It's a really unique and gorgeous property and the house appears to be in wonderful shape. I'm guessing $700k.

Looks like Redfin increased it's estimate to just shy of $685k. At that rate, and the fact that it appears well taken care of, at the end of a culdesac, near a park, in a nice area, with a good sized yard and two car garage. I won't be surprised if it's $715k.


And the sale price is in.... $790k! Moral of the story: if the house is nice and you actually might enjoy living in it, don't even bother.
http://www.estately.com/listings/info/2713-ne-106th-place--1

honeybbq

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Re: Case Study: Buy, Tear Down, and Re-build in Seattle?
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2017, 02:05:33 PM »
Yep. This is exactly why I reject a lot of people who scoff at the real estate prices around here, or make suggestions to buy a house for 350k. Its just not possible. People don't seem to realize Seattle is on par with Boston and other HCOLA. Not the Very HCOLA like NY or SF, but very close.

1/3 of my NW is wrapped up in real estate. Not ultimately the ratio I'd like but so be it.