Author Topic: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?  (Read 11147 times)

Imma

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Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« on: July 20, 2017, 02:42:55 PM »
Can I ever FIRE and if so, what do I need to do to achieve it?

Life Situation: Cohabiting couple, 27 and 30 years old, no kids. I have suffered with chronic illness since I was 16 which means I'm unable to work full time. I have a Bachelor's degree in law, but to work in the law field you need to have a Master's degree. As parttime jobs in that field are rare, I decided not to pursue a Master's degree just yet. The cost for that would be about EUR 5000 and I probably will have to do a Master's degree at some point, as only having a Bachelor's degree is considered to be 'dropping out' of university. We keep our finances completely separate, so this concerns only me, but he has roughly the same income (but works many more hours a week to earn it) and the same spending pattern.

Gross Salary/Wages: About 1400 EUR / month for 20 hours a week. Monthly wage is 1212, I get one extra month's worth of salary in May and I make about one month's worth of paid overtime every year. I can physically work about 25 hours a week. My pay is low because I work parttime, but I'd make a pretty good living if I'd be able to work fulltime.   

Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions 401k, HSA, FSA, IRA, insurance, etc. - whatever you have
This is the point. Our pension system is complicated. There are 3 pillars:
1. State pension. Right now about 750 EUR/month net each for a married couple. You need to have lived in this country for 50 years to qualify for it and so far we quality for full state pension at state pension age, which is 67 and 2 months right now. The thing is, we have an ageing population and I'm fairly sure that 40 years from now the government will not be able to afford it anymore. Also, our parents are early 60s now and I see they are struggling to continue to work and they're not even 67.

2. Company pension funds. This is how our parent's generation built up nice pensions, but many companies have stopped offering it. I have never worked anywhere that offered it, my partner has a very small amount of money somewhere from a job a long time ago. I'm not sure how much it is precisely, but I do know that in the occasion that he dies before his pension age, I'll get 100 EUR a year (yes, that's the correct amount) as a widow's pension.

3. IRA-type accounts. These are complicated in here. Pro:
1. The amount in these accounts is not liable for equity tax (1,3% tax on your equity above EUR 50.000 as a couple, your first house is exempt).
2. The amount in these accounts is exempt from any means-tested care. Think things like a nursing home or care at home, adaptations to your home etc. Considering my health, there's an above average chance I'll ever need this type of care.
3. Your contribution is tax deductable.
4. You can choose what you invest in (unlike a company pension fund, they decide for you)

Con:
1. You can only contribute a % of your income above EUR 15000 gross. As I only earn EUR 17000 gross, I can only contribute 1000 EUR a year. Still, at 40 years and a conservative 4%, that's 100.000 EUR.
2. You cannot access the money before government retirement age, which is currently 67.
3. You have to buy an annuity with the money. For EUR 100.000 you can buy a lifetime annuity of about EUR 4500 gross/year right now. Combined with my state pension, I'd have the same income as I have now, but I think it's pretty unlikely it still exists when I'm 67.
4. Considering my health, there's an above average chance that I'll not live as long as most people and that I'll be forced to quit working earlier. Right now, if I were to get disabled, my disabilty income would be EUR 925 but there have been lots of budget cuts to disability benefits over the last couple of years.

Other Ordinary Income: none

Taxes: From my regular monthly paycheck of EUR 1212, 117 EUR is deducted in income tax and contribution to social security and health care, so my take home pay is 1095 EUR. I get tax credits because I work even though I'm chronically ill.

Current expenses:

Take home pay: 1095
To joint account:  400 (partner also pays 400)
                          from this Mortgage 300, original sum 77900, now 74000, 28 years left at 2,2% interest
                                                                         30, water and taxes on water
                                                                         85, gas and electricity
                                                                         33, internet and cable tv. We don't watch tv, but it was cheaper than internet-
                                                                              only
                                                                         95, debt to the tax man. 0% interest, 5 months to go
                                                                         50, local taxes and garbage collection
                                                                         15, trade union membership
                                                                           6, netflix that we share with a relative
                                                                         10, home insurance
                                                                         30, liability and contents insurance. Expensive so it covers partner's music gear.
                                                                        140, food (staples). Any kind of fancy food goes from our own accounts.
                                                                       

Health care: 200 (I have a special savings account for these costs. This includes insurance at EUR 1200 a year, co-pay of 400 and EUR 800 a year in physical therapy)
Investments: 125 in index funds.
Public transport: 50 . We do not have a car and our relatives all live about 40-60km away.
Sewing class: 50 (includes materials). This is my main social activity outside of work and I'm not willing to give it up
Personal tax debt: 70  0% interest, 8 months left.
Savings: 100 . No specific purpose, but our house needs a lot of work and we're working on that slowly but steadily.
Spending: 100. From this: 8, mobile phone
                                                       10, life insurance for my partner. If he dies before 2045, I get 100.000 EUR

Also: clothing, hairdresser, eating out / take-away (we don't do that often) gifts, bike repairs.

My one month's extra salary in May and overtime money generally go into my savings account or towards an expensive purchase like new shoes.


Assets:
Checking account: EUR         98 (I will get paid on the 31st)
Savings account one: EUR 2300 (emergency fund)
Savings account two: EUR     50 (health care, paid some large bills recently)
Joint savings account: EUR  325 (any money left over from joint bank account, we don't pay everything monthly) 50% ownership
Investments: EUR             1800 (in index funds, 75% stock and 25% bonds)
House: EUR                    79500 (purchase price 2 years ago, in current market about 83000-85000) 50% ownership           


Liabilities:
Mortgage: EUR              74000 (28 years left to go, 2,25% interest. Started at 77900, downpayment is uncommon in here. Our 2%
                                              down is actually considered good, most people borrow more than the house is worth. Shared with
                                              partner.
Student debt: EUR           5000 I will have to start paying this back in 2020, minimum amount will be EUR 45/month. As the interest
                                              is fixed until 2020 @ 0,01%, I'm not paying anything back until I have to.
Tax debt: EUR                   300 I will have to pay this back in August, will pay this from savings account 1.

Personal tax debt:              560 remaining, the one I pay 70/month for
Joint tax debt:                    475 remaining, the one we pay 95/month for 


Question: How do I FIRE asap? Is it at all possible? I don't really hate my job, but it takes a lot of my limited energy and I'd rather spend that on things I enjoy. I'm not really willing to cut back on the level of luxury we have now, unless there's an extremely good rational argument for that. For the first time in my life I have the feeling I'm financially comfortable and I'd like to keep it that way.

As for all the tax debts: income taxes are deducted from your monthly payments and when you earn more, you'll have a tax debt next year. I don't expect any big income increase in the next few years. I'm already earning quite a lot for what I do and it's hard to find a parttime highly skilled job. Most parttime jobs around here are low paid and low skilled. I'm currently working in an accounting department, but to really get on in that field, I'd need to get a degree in finance and a second Bachelor's degree would cost me about EUR 15000 that I'd have to take out student loans for. The other option would be a Master's degree in something like Tax law, which would cost me about EUR 5000. I'm not extremely interested in either field, but I've worked in finance for about 5 years now and I don't hate it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 03:38:46 PM by Imma »

PapaBear

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2017, 05:16:31 PM »
Just out of curiosity: Which EU country are we talking about? I'm asking because of the equity tax you have mentioned. I always thought that France is the only country left with a wealth tax. Or are you talking about a property tax?

Regarding your question:
I used the simple estimator promoted in this article: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/
With your current savings rate of ~20% of your net salary, it would take you about ~37 years to retire (not accounting for your state pension or any current assets). Not so great. (see https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement?income=13140&initialBalance=0&expenses=10440&annualPct=5&withdrawalRate=4)

However, after you are done paying back the tax debts and put the surplus towards your investment, your savings rate increases to ~31%, et voilá, it is just ~27 years to retirement. That sounds a bit better (https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement?income=13140&initialBalance=0&expenses=9030&annualPct=5&withdrawalRate=4)

Please note that this is a very simplified answer, as it does not factor in your current assets, state pension, potential salary increases, taxes or any increases in your expenses or salary (I took your current take home salary as the base line and calculated your current savings rate based on that). On the other hand, the calculator shows the powerful impact of your savings rate on your retirement date. For a bit more detailed calculation including your current assets and your expected state pension, you can use http://www.firecalc.com/ or http://www.cfiresim.com/

Now regarding the how:
I guess the biggest issue for you is not the spending side, as your spending is already somewhat low (at least from my perspective, what is the average cost of living in your local area?). Thus, you would need to focus on the income side:
- Can you qualify further for a more skilled job that is within your requirements? What would be salaries for a part-time job with a masters degree?
- Is it possible for you to add a low-stress side gig that would bring in additional money?
- What about your partner? Any possibilities for drastic salary increases or side gigs there?

By the way: In your shoes, I would pause the investing for a few months and pad the emergency and healthcare fund a bit more. Given your condition and since you own real estate, a bit higher emergency cushion might be advisable. Think about a worst case scenario - e.g. you get a high medical bill and your heating system in your house breaks down at the same time - what would that do with your cash flow?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 05:21:38 PM by PapaBear »

havregryn

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2017, 12:21:33 AM »
Also curious about the country.
Your insurance payment sounds high...it's 40€ a month total and that sounds insane to me regardless of what kind of equipment there is since we pay something like 25€ a month for a very comprehensive insurance in Luxembourg (so king of all expensive in the EU)

I don't understand the tax debt stuff, but does that mean that it is too optimistic to really assume that 1095 is your actual take home salary, i.e. is it reasonable to expect more tax corrections?

As said, you probably can't reduce your spending much, you would need to increase income.
If you live in a house, is it big enough to get a roommate?
Are you in a location where Airbnb could be a thing?

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2017, 12:36:51 AM »
Thanks for your replies! I'm in the Netherlands.

PapaBear: you are right, my emergency fund is on the low side. The reason for this is that we only get about 0,2% interest on in. My partner roughy has the same amount of money in his savings account and our investments can be sold off at any point, so the total amount of money that's directly available would be about EUR 6000. Once I've paid my 1200 EUR insurance premium I only have to pay for the first EUR 400 costs out of pocket. After that, my insurance pays everything, but not dental care or physical therapy. Since I have just paid my yearly physical therapy bill, the only thing health-wise that could happen is maybe an emergency dentist trip. That wouldn't generally be more expensive than EUR 250. Our heating system is still under warranty and the white good we own are second hand and we have no problem buying them second hand again. In case of major damage to our home, we have a good home insurance with only a EUR 250 deductible. Our roof is only about 5 years old. We don't have car. I do try to slowly add to the emergency fund as I'd like to have some more money in a directly available account, so that's where the EUR 100 / month goes.

I think we're already living pretty frugally on the spending side, at least, everyone else thinks we're crazy which is a good sign.

We definitely have a wealth tax (vermogensrendementheffing) in the NL. For a couple, the first 50.000 EUR and your family home are exempt, but over that you pay 1,2%. Right now we don't have to pay it, but if you keep your investments in accessible accounts like I do, it's going to cost you a lot of money at some point in the future. We also have a property tax but that's hidden under "local taxes" as the amount of local tax you have to pay is a % of the value of your home.

I'm off to work now, will reply later to the other questions :)

 

havregryn

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2017, 01:04:34 AM »
Hm, if you're in the Netherlands and you say your boyfriend earns the same as you for many more hours, isn't he quite underpaid? That sounds really low for Netherlands even though I don't have any first hand experience of it.

Based on yours and some other posts I've read Netherlands sounds like a bit of an outlier compared to countries in the neighborhood, you guys seem to be paying way more for health insurance and education than the rest of us (also daycare I think for those who have kids). I wonder what do you get in return, do you pay a lot less tax lol? I mean, I lived in Austria, Sweden and Luxembourg and in none of these places do you pay for healthcare if you work or you are a dependent of someone who works, and you'd only need to pay money for a master degree if you wanted something special and fancy or from a private school.

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2017, 07:29:15 AM »
Yes, you're right, the last 10-15 years many costs have moved from the government to the individual tax payer. Taxation has gone down, but mostly for the highest incomes. From our gross income, about 5% gets deducted towards funding of the health care system, then you have to buy insurance from a private company (it's mandatory) that costs about EUR 1200 to 1500 a year and then you have to pay the first EUR 400 of health care costs out of pocket every year. On top of that, if you need any long term care, it's means-tested. You can claim a benefit towards health care costs if you can't afford it, but we don't qualify for that. The state sponsors one fulltime bachelor's and one master's degree (that means the tuition is capped at EUR 2000/year) but universities can charge whatever they want for second degrees or parttime programs.

To really get on in my career, I'd need three things: a Master's degree or a Bachelor's in my current field, being able to work 28-32 hours a week and a more steady resume. I have lots of gaps in my employment from the past when I'd be hospitalised or ill for long periods of time. I've been with my current employer for a year and I plan to stay another 2. Getting my energy levels up is the goal of all that physical therapy. The degree is something I'll need to do eventually. In this country, having the right degree is important. Having a law degree and work experience in another field isn't going to get you to the next level in your career, except maybe if you move up within the company. As I work for a small business, there's no 'up' for me in this company. I have looked into doing some tax / admin work on the side, but there's a lot of competition from people that do have the right qualificiations and rates are low. I think if I get the degree and can work the right amount of hours, I could certainly find a job that would pay about 2800 gross/fulltime (now 2425 gross/fulltime).

From next year, we are going to have a vegetable patch in our garden and maybe keep a few chickens. It might slightly lower the grocery bills, but it's mainly for enjoyment. I always wanted to be a farmer as that's how I was raised. I also barter some skills I have; I I file a few people's taxes in return for services from them, like house cleaning, and sometimes I repair clothing.

Boyfriend indeed doesn't earn a lot, it's slightly above minimum wage. He can do overtime sometimes as well. He's looking for another job, but as he doesn't have a degree it's quite difficult. He's a musician by trade and that's the most important thing for him. He'd rather live in a squat than do an office job (he's currently doing a technical job). Because he knows a lot of people in the music industry he can sometimes work at a festival for the weekend and earn something extra.

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2017, 10:36:38 AM »
Well, good news! I thought a major increase in income wasn't going to be likely any time soon, but apparantly I was wrong! As of August 1 I'll get a 10% raise, from €1212 gross/20 hours a week to €1330 and there's a chance of going up to €1515 next year. I'm also going to work more overtime the coming periods, so all in all I'm going to be making quite some extra money.

Now I only have to decide what to do with that extra money. I'm putting 125/month into index funds automatically every year, and I'm thinking of increasing that to 135/month, to keep up with the habit of saving 10% of my gross earnings for my retirement.

My emergency fund is now €2000 and I plan to have €3000 in it by the end of the year.

Sounds like a good plan, right?

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 11:20:34 AM »
I'd like to get some new advice. Our situation has changed, we have paid off some debt, I got a raise. I want to get some more advice about saving up for retirement. Here's the new case study. I have deleted some things that are already mentioned in the first post, so it wouldn't be too long.

Life Situation: Cohabiting couple, 27 and 30 years old, no kids.We keep our finances completely separate, so this concerns only me, but he has roughly the same income (but works many more hours a week to earn it) and the same spending pattern.

Gross Salary/Wages: 1440 EUR / month for 20 hours a week. Monthly wage is 1334, I get one extra month's worth of salary in May and I make about one month's worth of paid overtime every year. I can physically work about 25 hours a week. My pay is low because I work parttime, but I'd make a pretty good living if I'd be able to work fulltime.   

Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions 401k, HSA, FSA, IRA, insurance, etc. - whatever you have
  Our pension system is complicated. See first post.

Other Ordinary Income: none

Taxes: From my regular monthly paycheck of EUR 1334, 128 EUR is deducted in income tax and contribution to social security and health care, so my take home pay is 1206 EUR. I get tax credits because I work even though I'm chronically ill.

Current expenses:

Take home pay: 1206
To joint account:  350 (partner also pays 350)
                          from this                  Mortgage 300, original sum 77900, now 74000, 28 years left at 2,2% interest
                                                                         30, water and taxes on water
                                                                         70, gas and electricity
                                                                         33, internet and cable tv. We don't watch tv, but it was cheaper than internet-
                                                                              only
                                                                         50, local taxes and garbage collection
                                                                         15, trade union membership
                                                                           6, netflix that we share with a relative
                                                                         10, home insurance
                                                                         30, liability and contents insurance. Expensive so it covers partner's music gear.
                                                                        155, food (staples). Any kind of fancy food goes from our own accounts.
                                                                       
Health care:       200 (I have a special savings account for these costs. This includes insurance at EUR 1200 a year and co-pay of 400. I no longer need physical therapy so from January I will probably only transfer 150 to this account, provided my premium doesn't rise)
Investments:      155 in index funds.
Public transport:   50 . We do not have a car and our relatives all live about 40-60km away.
Sewing class:       50 (includes materials). This is my main social activity outside of work and I'm not willing to give it up
Personal tax debt: 70  0% interest, 5 months left.
Savings:             200 . No specific purpose, but our house needs a lot of work and we're working on that slowly but steadily.
Spending:          130. From this:  8, mobile phone
                                               10, life insurance for my partner. If he dies before 2045, I get 100.000 EUR
Also: clothing, hairdresser, eating out / take-away (we don't do that often) gifts, bike repairs. I have increased my spending slightly because I had to replace a lot of clothing at roughly the same time and we also took a short trip.

Assets:
Checking account: EUR           5 (Will get paid soon)
Savings account one: EUR  1500 (emergency fund)
Savings account two: EUR  1000 (health care, 1200 insurance premium due 1 Jan)
Joint savings account: EUR  525 (any money left over from joint bank account, we don't pay everything monthly) 50% ownership
Investments: EUR             2500 (in index funds, 75% stock and 25% bonds)
House: EUR                    85000 (purchase price 2 years ago 79500 ) 50% ownership           
Loan to partner: EUR         5000 (completely forgot about this last time ... tied up in the house, 0% interest, he's not actually paying it back right now, but he would have to if we split up)

Liabilities:
Mortgage: EUR              74000 (28 years left to go, 2,25% interest. Started at 77900, downpayment is uncommon in here. Our 2%
                                              down is actually considered good, most people borrow more than the house is worth. Shared with
                                              partner.
Student debt: EUR           5000 I will have to start paying this back in 2020, minimum amount will be EUR 45/month. As the interest
                                              is fixed until 2020 @ 0,01%, I'm not paying anything back until I have to.


Personal tax debt:              240 remaining, the one I pay 70/month for

Question:

We have paid off some debts recently, did work on the house and I got a raise. Our financial situation is now a little better than this summer. Once my personal text debt is paid off in a few months and my montly health care costs are hopefully lower, I'll have 140 EUR left over. I'm considering the options I have now.

The first thing I'm considering is putting money in a tax deferred investment account (401k-ish account). Normally, I am allowed to contribute something between 800 and 1000 EUR / year. It's not much. However, for this tax year due to all kinds of circumstances I'm allowed to contribute EUR 1800. That's a one off thing, it's back to 800-1000 next year. I don't have to put that money into this account right now, I can do this until 31 December 2023. You can see the pro's and con's of this tax deferred retirement investment scheme in the first post. For me, I'm not sure if I should put this money in the tax deferred account right now or wait for a few years. The only way I can get that kind of money right now is out of my after-tax investments (it's possible to take after-tax money and invest it pre-tax, you can claim the difference back when you file your income tax). This seems like a no-brainer, but as I don't have a large emergency fund, it does mean that I'm a lot less flexible with my money. If I need money urgently, I can just sell my after-tax investments, but the money in my tax deferred retirement account is tied up there for decades.

I'm also considering paying off my mortgage early. My s/o is very interested in this, he seems to be a bit scared of investing. Paying off a mortgage is probably better than having your money sit in a 0,05% interest savings account, but at an interest rate of 2,2% it's not really that interesting from an investment point of view. The upside of this is that our mortgage term will be shorter and that means our bils will get lower in the very long run, allowing us to potentially work less hours.

I am also adding some money to my emergency fund from my next wage. I like to keep it at EUR 2000 and I want to have EUR 3000 in it this time next year. We had to dip into the emergency fund for necessary home maintenance - we have bought a fixer-upper and are slowly renovating it.

Another option, that I mentioned before, but don't really like, is to spend money on a Master's degree in Tax law starting from September next year. I'm not looking forward to that, because I didn't enjoy my Bachelor's that much. I chose my major rationally, but I don't love it. Spending my time delving deeper into something I don't love isn't something I'd enjoy that much. I'm also not 100% sure about career perspective, although I'm pretty sure it's worth the EUR 5000 investment. As I can't work fulltime due to health reasons, all the interesting academic-level jobs are off limits for me. I work for a small company right now where they need an expert but not fulltime, and without career possibilities except a yearly pay-rise. I'd need to find a similar position but with more career opportunities. I'm sure I'd find a position like that, but not necessarily one that would pay as well as the average Tax law expert earns at a big accountancy firm.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 11:24:29 AM by Imma »

Hirondelle

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2017, 09:23:31 AM »
Hi Imma! Seems like you're doing a pretty neat job keeping expenses low. Great that you got a raise. 10% is a lot! How does it affect your savings rate atm?

Only thing I can think of that could save you money might be the transportation costs. I don't know how often and from where to where you travel, but as a fellow Dutch I'm a HUGE fan of the 'NS groepstickets'. Maybe you already use them, but EUR 7 for any round trip within the country is often already worth it for very short trips.
If your partner refuses investing, it might be worth it to push him a bit to pay you the loan back. 5000 assuming 4% return is costing you 200/year by him having it on the savings account versus you investing it. Plus compounding for every year he doesn't pay you back (I wouldn't make a very big thing out of it tho).

Regarding the pension fund; I'd say just wait until you feel safe with your emergency fund. If you can contribute until 2023 I wouldn't rush doing it now.
Company pension funds?: Are you sure they're not common anymore? Everywhere I worked so far had a fund like this - even my stupid temp agency jobs that I worked during college.

Regarding career/education: What do you think you'd want in this case. You say you wouldn't like to do the masters, but it would be worth the investment. How long would it take before it pays off? How much higher would your salary be? Are there any other fields you'd be interested in that you could do parttime? Like, there's a massive lack of teachers and you can get paid education for certain fields in which the shortages are worst - especially math. Or try to teach yourself some coding or follow a course, many(international) work from home opportunities. I have no clue about your personal interests and physical abilities, but these are some of the opportunities I keep an eye on myself.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 09:25:54 AM by Hirondelle »

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2017, 03:46:47 PM »
Hi Imma! Seems like you're doing a pretty neat job keeping expenses low. Great that you got a raise. 10% is a lot! How does it affect your savings rate atm?

Only thing I can think of that could save you money might be the transportation costs. I don't know how often and from where to where you travel, but as a fellow Dutch I'm a HUGE fan of the 'NS groepstickets'. Maybe you already use them, but EUR 7 for any round trip within the country is often already worth it for very short trips.
If your partner refuses investing, it might be worth it to push him a bit to pay you the loan back. 5000 assuming 4% return is costing you 200/year by him having it on the savings account versus you investing it. Plus compounding for every year he doesn't pay you back (I wouldn't make a very big thing out of it tho).

Regarding the pension fund; I'd say just wait until you feel safe with your emergency fund. If you can contribute until 2023 I wouldn't rush doing it now.
Company pension funds?: Are you sure they're not common anymore? Everywhere I worked so far had a fund like this - even my stupid temp agency jobs that I worked during college.

Regarding career/education: What do you think you'd want in this case. You say you wouldn't like to do the masters, but it would be worth the investment. How long would it take before it pays off? How much higher would your salary be? Are there any other fields you'd be interested in that you could do parttime? Like, there's a massive lack of teachers and you can get paid education for certain fields in which the shortages are worst - especially math. Or try to teach yourself some coding or follow a course, many(international) work from home opportunities. I have no clue about your personal interests and physical abilities, but these are some of the opportunities I keep an eye on myself.

Thanks for your reply :)

I got the raise a few months ago and so far, the money has gone straight to home renovations and paying off the tax debt, together with some money from the emergency fund. I did increase my investment rate a little bit by (€30) but now my costs are getting lower the first thing I'm going to do is build up my emergency fund to 2000 and then to 3000. After that, I'm not so sure.

I think the travel costs are already at a bare minimum, but I'll look into the group tickets. I buy a day ticket for the bus every week to visit my elderly grandma (€6) and that's about half the budget. The other half is train costs - we live in a city in the south, my side of the family lives an hour one way, his side of the family an hour the other way. I get 40% off when we travel together and for long distance trips I try to buy day tickets in advance. As we don't own a car, I don't think €50 is too bad.

As for the company pension funds: I haven't worked anywhere that offered one since my temping days at college. I had 3 years worth of retirement payments in the temp fund at some point, but I changed my job and when your contribution is below a certain threshold (I think around €600) they pay you back once you quit your job, so now I have none. The very small pension my boyfriend has is slightly over the threshold, as a result of 7 years in a similar job starting when he was a teenager. I'm not exactly sure how common pension funds are nowadays, but most people I know seem to work in companies that don't offer them. But our friends are mostly in tech or art and often in small businesses. I think it's a lot more common in more traditional fields like education and insurance/banking or something. It would be a huge plus for me in a future new job.

The career thing is something I struggle with. I don't hate my job, but going to work in the morning doesn't really make me happy. I haven't had that feeling in any job I've had ever so I'm not sure if finding a different position would make that better. Funny enough, I have considered teaching in the past. I took some extra classes for fun when I was studying for my bachelor's degree (the "reward" history classes when I passed the "boring" law classes) and I know it's possible for me to enter an education schakelprogramma and do a master's degree in history and get a teaching qualification. This would be a lot more fun than tax law, but also a lot less lucrative. Teaching, even parttime, is a much more demanding job and you don't get paid as well. I think I'd also be able to get into economics / m&o with my background, but none of these subjects have shortages. I'm not 100% sure how this would work out health-wise either. I don't have a disability or anything, but I do have a chronic illness that limits my energy. I work 20 hours in an office job right now, I'm trying to transition to 25. If I'd be able to get to 28 or 32, that would open up a lot of possibilities in the job market, but I'm not sure yet if that's realistic. I want to try that out in my current, permanent job. I don't want to apply for a 32-hours job just to find out I can't do it.

I think that with a tax law degree, I'd be able to find a job that would pay 3000-3250 gross/month fulltime while I earn about 2650 gross/fulltime now but that's just a vague estimate. I'm not sure about future raises in my current job, that is dependent on the market, but if I'd get another big raise I'd be close to that already, without taking another degree.

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2017, 04:18:50 PM »
How set are you on staying in the Netherlands? Based on you healthcare costs, it sounds like it could make long term economic sense to look at the neighboring countries. How much would healthcare cost you in Belgium? And could you get work there speaking Dutch? Do you have enough French, German, or English to be able to work (or live) in countries where those are the main languages?

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2017, 02:43:27 AM »
As long as my elderly grandma is alive, I'm not going to move more than one hour of travelling away from her. She's like a second mother to me and I visit her every single week. As she's well into her 80s, even though she's still very healthy and living independently now, I expect I'll need to visit her more often in the future to help her. Belgium and Germany would be less than an hour away if I bought a car, and we have seriously considered both countries before we bought this house because property is cheaper there, but we decided against it.

Health care costs would be much higher in Belgium and my German is not good enough to move there anytime soon. My partner is also tied down to this country because of his music career, so if we'd move further away from where he's working, it would involve lots of driving around for him (I think we'd probably need two cars in that situation).  I'm sure that otherwise we'd easily be able to settle in Belgium.

I'd have to improve my German very much to be able to have an academic level job there, but we are seriously considering to RE in Germany when the time comes. We'd be able to buy a property with a lot more land for only a little bit more than the price of our current home. My mother (one of the few close relatives we have) lives very close to Germany so if by then we'd need to take care of her, we'd be in the right area.

I'm a farmer's daughter and I'd love to get back to a more rural life. Maybe that's also why I'm not looking forward to spend more time in education: having a desk job was never my plan. Had I been healthy, I would have chosen an active, outdoors type of job. As you can see, being close to the few family members we have is very important to me. I want to be able to provide the type of care they need. There aren't many other relatives they can rely on and I'd never move to the other side of Europe to make a little bit more money if it would involve leaving elderly relatives behind.

gaja

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2017, 01:51:42 PM »
How would the German healthcare costs compare to the ones you have now? If they are better, it sounds like a good reason for spending some time and money on language classes. Maybe also get some classes on EU laws regarding economy, taxes, and maybe project economy? People who are able to manage EU level project funding (Interreg, H2020, etc) are always in demand, and the knowledge is transferrable between different countries, since the projects are international. Wouldn't you be allowed to attend a German university for free, even if you have spent the Dutch bachelor money? Or is that money meant for living expenses, and not for tuition? I have a couple of friends who went to university in Germany. Their German was only decent before they left Norway, but it got very good very fast.

I have plenty of musicians in the family, and don't understand why that career should keep anyone tied to a location? Even the people I know who are trained in traditional folk music, or sing in a local dialect, end up travelling all over the world.

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2017, 02:48:25 PM »

I have plenty of musicians in the family, and don't understand why that career should keep anyone tied to a location? Even the people I know who are trained in traditional folk music, or sing in a local dialect, end up travelling all over the world.

It is when you're committed to a long-term project or band located in a certain area and you've invested lots of time, money and effort in it. When something like that ends, you can of course move - last time we moved to a different area was when a long-term cooperation based in a certain town ended - but you can't move far away and still keep up with those commitments. He's already spending a lot of time on the road and away from home for long periods of time, moving too far away from where the project is based would only increase his time away. On top of all the travelling he'd have a long commute to where they're based.

I'm not really sure if a move to Germany before retirement makes sense. We'd be able to buy a much bigger property for about the same price as our current small place, which is why it's interesting for retirement, but wages are much lower in Germany. Even if health care costs would be maybe €50 lower a month, all the costs we'd have to move there, and then to likely take a pay cut, would probably not make sense financially.  Our travel costs would massively increase (we'd need two cars, because there's little public transport) and while I do think that I qualify to study in Germany very cheaply, if I were to quit my job I'd have no income. I don't think that's the quickest road to FIRE.

My estimate for the costs of a Master's degree is based on the tuition the university closest to my home charges and a bit extra for books and travel. I would try to spread the classes over 3 semesters instead of the usual 2 so I would be able to keep my current job. As I don't have stash to live from, any further education would have to be combined with a job.

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2017, 09:18:09 AM »
Hi Imma,

I'm interested to read this, especially as I'm following your progress in the race to 10k thread.  Firstly, you should be incredibly proud of what you're doing.  In the face of a chronic illness, most people would wallow in self pity.  However you've accepted the cards you've been dealt with and you're pursuing FIRE non the less.  It really is impressive!

Unfortunately, to reach FIRE more quickly you need to either earn more money, or spend less.  In terms of your costs, there genuinely isn't much wiggle room.  I think you're living a frugal enough life style. 

Without wanting to sounds rude, I think your significant other needs to re-evaluate his stance.  I know he enjoys being a musician, but IMO he needs to consider your long term future first.  If he isn't willing to either suppliment his wages with more highly paid 'part time work' I don't know how he will ever retire?  There are plenty of side gigs he could do (Uber, deliveroo, gardening, dog walking, bar work etc) and if he reduced the time he spent in the music industry he'd bring home more money (without fully jumping out of the industry he loves).  I'd argue he should make more sacrifices to help the two of you.  He seems quite stubborn if he refuses to seek higher paid work and is also reluctant to invest?  (Please don't think I'm being offensive, I'm just giving you my honest opinion from what I've read).

You're a native Dutch speaker, who has good English.  Surely there is part time work proof reading English companies material in Holland?  I'd also go for the degree.  Depending on the interest rate of the loans, you could be increasing your earning potential massively.  Consider it as a medium risk investment.  If it pays off, you could be FI significantly sooner than if you continue at your current rate.


Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2017, 01:27:06 PM »
Thanks for your reply! I'm Dutch, I appreciate blunt people ;-) .

I know you're right. There's very little wiggle room, although there's a lot more wiggle room then there used to be. There is no magic tric to suddenly get rich. I think the Master's is probably unavoidable for the future, as much as I hate the idea.

I wouldn't really say my fiance is stubborn, but he's a no-compromise kind of person. He knows his priorities and his first priority is music. He's always made that clear. As we have separate finances, it wouldn't actually make a huge difference to my situation if he would earn more, but it's a fact that he earns very little while being away 80-100 hours a week easily. Especially the last couple of months have been insane. The only upside is that his work often involves getting free food and drinks, and with him away from home the grocery and electricity bills are fairly low. He also gets most of his clothes for free. I know he's extremely talented and very good at what he does. It's not like he's singing in pubs for free beer and tips, he's doing quite well in his career. There's just very little money to earn in music. You get paid for playing gigs and the amount of money you get for a single gig might sound like a lot, but the outgoings are huge as well.

We're both from poor families and we've never really had any money. While I have always had the drive to better myself - not necessarily to get rich, but to be financially comfortable at some point - he's never had that. He has only ever wanted to be a musician. He has a lot of skills, but not the type of skills that make money. He's a very social guy, he can get along with everyone from elderly ladies to homeless junkies, he's very smart, he speaks many different languages, he's spent half of life twiddling with electrical equipment so he's good with that stuff too. But he's a blue collar guy through and through. While he's extremely intelligent, he's not going to work in an office ever. I knew that when we got together. I can't force him to become something he's not.

He's a very hard worker and he's prepared to take on any kind of work, but he's never made a two-digit hourly wage. He's been a musician with a side job for 15 years now and he's happy this way. That's going to be his future. He'd happily live in a squat if he had to. We live in a terraced home on a not-too-bad housing estate now, and he never in a million years thought he'd be able to afford this kind of luxury living.

FIRE is my thing and absolutely not his. He's completely content with this life, he's going to work as long as he physically can. If his music career completely fails he'll happily work as a delivery guy or a bus driver. He knows I feel a very deep longing to live in a more rural location and when I'm moving to the countryside (I hope to be able to do that somewhere between the age of 40-50, even though I probably won't be fully FIRE'd then) I know he'll follow me there even though the location is less than ideal for him. He'll find a way to make ends meet somehow. I hope he doesn't sound like a selfish guy, because he really isn't. We are two adults who have a very deep loving relationship, but we have very different lives. I will hopefully at some point FIRE and potter around in my apron in the garden of my cottage, he will continue to work basically forever. That's the reality of things.

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2017, 05:15:25 PM »
Another Dutch person here, and in advance I'll apologize for being blunt. ;)

Realistically I think you'll just have to work till you are 67 (or ~71 by that time) if nothing changes in your situation. Especially since you don't have a pension, income after the pension age will just be 'AOW' which isn't much and it's likely you'll want some additional income that you will have to save for in advance. 150 EUR per month in index funds isn't that much and if your health situation would change for the worse and you wouldn't be able to contribute each month anymore this will never grow into a large sum of money.

This was the pessimistic part, now I'll get to the positive part. ;)

I think everyone can agree there are not much costs to cut on your spending. (moving to Germany or Belgium won't matter a huge deal on the spending part I would guess.) That just means you'll have to focus on your income to increase the difference between the amount that's coming into and going out of your bank account each month. And the larger that difference is, the more you can save, et cetera.

If you can find the time and energy to get your masters I think that's a no-brainer. 5000 Euros might sound like a lot of money now, but you'll earn it back in no time by the extra possibilities you'll have on the job market. And over a working period of 20 or 30 years or even longer the extra income will be many multiples of 5000 euros.

It just really sucks that you have this chronic illness but it's great to see that you are focussing on what is possible. I'm not familiar in any way with this type of diseases and how work affects your energy levels, but I can imagine some tasks will drain a lot more of your energy than others. Is it a possibility to focus yourself more on the tasks that you can perform that don't cost you a lot of energy? Or check with your employer if they can give you some flexibility on this part? If the employer can't give you this flexibility, is it possible to find some 'low-energy', but skilled side-jobs that you can schedule on your own terms? You mentioned filing taxes, if you could do this for a few small companies as a freelancer I think you'd have quite some freedom in scheduling your work and it would be possible to earn a couple thousand euros extra per year.

With these two things I think it's easily possible to earn 500+ euros extra per month, if you add all of that to your savings you will get there! :)

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2017, 08:58:23 AM »
Thanks for your reply :)

I don't think FIRE is completely impossible on my current level of investing, but it will take some time. I think I'd be able to FIRE around AOW-age. With a stash of 300k I'd be able to withdraw my current income for the rest of my life without running out of money, and by then we won't have a mortgage. Any kind of pension or AOW would just be an added bonus. Sadly, I don't think I'll be able to work until 67 or whenever my generation will get to retire so this FIRE sceneario is just a very-best-case scenario. This also assumes I'll actually live long enough to enjoy retirement.

Right now I know I'll get Wajong when I'm too ill to work, but on Jan 1 the government will quietly lower Wajong again ( by €75 this time) and this is just one of many quiet budget cuts to health care and social security during the last 10 years. My illness now costs me twice as much as it did 10 years ago. I know I might never reach FIRE, but taking care of myself as well as I can financially is absolutely a need and not just a want. I know I can't rely on the government to provide anything when I'm too ill to work eventually. So I'm just doing the best I can and any kind of money I'd be able to claim from the state is just an unexpected windfall. My realistic future scenario is that I'll probably not be able to work very much after the age of 50 (which is 23 years from now) and if I'd reach the age of 70 I'd be extremely happy with that. Somewhere between the ages of 40 and 50 we're planning to retire to the countryside. But that's still an educated guess.

Regarding the Master's, I know there's no way around doing this eventually, but I'm not completely sure if it would actually improve my chances on the job market. It would not only cost a lot of money (thanks to new rules you can now get a low interest student loan as an adult, which is what I'd do) but it would be a huge commitment in terms of energy. It will be a very tough period.

Right now I earn 2650 gross/fulltime, and I know that's on the high side for the kind of job I do. I know in other companies 2500 gross/fulltime is about the max for this kind of job. Unofficially, because I'm overqualified for this job ( I have a university bachelor's degree in law) and I'm the most educated employee in the small business I work for, I am a sort of right hand person / general advisor for the director as well. I still get yearly raises right now, but I'd be surprised if my boss would be willing to go over 3000 gross/fulltime. This unofficial part of my job also makes my job less boring, I get to use my brain. This part of the job sounds like a good career path for the future, except that you just don't find those kind of jobs for 20/hours a week. The same goes for the more specialist tax jobs that I'd qualify for with a master's degree. Until my health allows me to work more than a small parttime job, I'm afraid I'm just going to be a very overqualified finance administrator.

Working freelance in this business is something I have considered in the past and currently I don't think that with my experience / formal degrees I'd be able to make as much money as I do in my current job, so it doesn't make sense right now. In this line of work, formal qualifications are very important. A side hustle isn't really possible now because my job drains all my energy. In the future with the master's degree under my belt, I'd be able to charge a lot more and working freelance is maybe the only real career option in the tax field. So this is definitely something I am considering for the future (say, 5 years from now).

Dagobert

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2017, 04:20:51 PM »
Are you certain that with your income you don't qualify for the subsidy for healthcare (zorgtoeslag)?
With your partner it may not be much, but after mortage deductions etc it still could be a few hunderd euro's a year (taxfree). Just apply with a income of 40.000 a year so you don't get any monthly payments (or debt/repayments because you received to much), but a lump sump ammount after you file your taxes if you qualify.

Is your partner registered as an entrepeneur? With the hours you mention the 1225 hour a year minimum for the tax advantages (MKB winstvrijstelling, startersaftrek, zelfstandigenaftrek, etc) could be lucrative. For the VAT you could use the Kleine Ondernemers Regeling. 

Good luck. I hope you have the energy to work a few hours a week more, that would make the most impact on your fire date.
Firing in the Netherlands is a struggle, due to lower wages then in America, and higher taxes. But it's possible. Just save and enjoy the effects of time on compound interest. If you have a bit more emergyfund and in to investing, i suggest Meesman.nl for the indexfunds (possible with a minimum of 100 a month). 

Edit: check your WOZ value of your home against the mortgage. A lower riskpremium could apply. Paying of a few thousand euro's lowered the interest on the rest of my debt by half a %, without any further cost. A nice monthly saving / return on investment.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 04:25:54 PM by Dagobert »

Hirondelle

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2017, 07:54:07 AM »
Are you certain that with your income you don't qualify for the subsidy for healthcare (zorgtoeslag)?
With your partner it may not be much, but after mortage deductions etc it still could be a few hunderd euro's a year (taxfree). Just apply with a income of 40.000 a year so you don't get any monthly payments (or debt/repayments because you received to much), but a lump sump ammount after you file your taxes if you qualify.
I think this might apply to you. If you file jointly (with 'toeslagpartner') you can get zorgtoeslag if your gross income is below € 35.996. If you file as a single person the maximum gross income that allows for zorgtoeslag is € 28.720, so if the latter is the case you could get quite a lot.

Spruit

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2017, 04:51:41 AM »
Hi from the NL as well.
It's hard to get ahead if your energy is so limited. I think it's wise not to persue a career in education, as there really are few jobs for history or social science teachers and the burnout rate is pretty high in the sector. If you enjoy educating kids maybe tutoring on the side is an idea? It is pretty flexible and low-stress.
I must say your housing costs are excellent!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 04:24:14 PM by Spruit »

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2017, 06:12:21 AM »
Are you certain that with your income you don't qualify for the subsidy for healthcare (zorgtoeslag)?
With your partner it may not be much, but after mortage deductions etc it still could be a few hunderd euro's a year (taxfree). Just apply with a income of 40.000 a year so you don't get any monthly payments (or debt/repayments because you received to much), but a lump sump ammount after you file your taxes if you qualify.
I think this might apply to you. If you file jointly (with 'toeslagpartner') you can get zorgtoeslag if your gross income is below € 35.996. If you file as a single person the maximum gross income that allows for zorgtoeslag is € 28.720, so if the latter is the case you could get quite a lot.

Individually we would both qualify, but together we are over the limit. We do apply for it just to be sure, but we never get it.

We have an NHG mortgage, so I think we already have the lowest interest % we can have.

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2018, 02:09:17 PM »
Saving has been super hard for me, so, for accountability, another update in the case study!

Life Situation: Cohabiting couple, 28 and 32 years old, no kids.We keep our finances completely separate, so this concerns only me, but he has roughly the same income (but works many more hours a week to earn it) and the same spending pattern.

Gross Salary/Wages: 1870 EUR / month for 24 hours a week. Monthly wage is 1730, I get one extra month's worth of salary in May. In my current job I hardly ever work overtime, but I hope to be able to get 4 more hours a week in the new year. I have recently started a business that will hopefully bring in some extra income.

Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions 401k, HSA, FSA, IRA, insurance, etc. - whatever you have
Our pension system is complicated. See first post. In my current job, I do have a pension now, paid for by my employer, but it's pretty bad. I'm formally a temp now, but the company I work for will hire me this summer and then I'll be enrolled in a great pension scheme, paid for 50/50 by me and my employer. This pension would basically make my partner FI instantly if I would pass away. I am also paying €100/month into a pre-tax pension investment account now.

Other Ordinary Income: none

Taxes: From my regular monthly paycheck of EUR 1730, 180 EUR is deducted in income tax and contribution to social security and health care, so my take home pay is 1550 EUR. I get tax credits because I work even though I'm chronically ill. I also get a €85 tax-free compen6sation for travel costs.

Current expenses:
Take home pay: 1635
To joint account:  353 (partner also pays 350)
                          from this                  Mortgage 300, original sum 77900, now 71400, 27 years left at 2,2% interest
                                                                         30, water and taxes on water
                                                                         80, gas and electricity - prices are up, use is down from last year
                                                                         33, internet and cable tv. We don't watch tv, but it was cheaper than internet-
                                                                              only
                                                                         50, local taxes and garbage collection
                                                                         15, trade union membership
                                                                           6, netflix that we share with a relative
                                                                         11, home insurance
                                                                         30, liability and contents insurance. Expensive so it covers partner's music gear.
                                                                        155, food (staples). Any kind of fancy food goes from our own accounts.
                                                                       
Health care:       150 (I have a special savings account for these costs. This includes insurance at EUR 1300 a year and co-pay of 380 and about 130-150 EUR in out of pocket costs for medication no physical therapy anymore) 
Investments:      175 in index funds
                          100 in pre-tax retirement acccount (this is not deducted from my wages, but included in my tax return next year)
Public transport:  180 . We do not have a car and our relatives all live about 40-60km away.
Sewing class:       50 (includes materials). This is my main social activity outside of work and I'm not willing to give it up
Personal tax debt: 70  0% interest, 5 months left.

Savings:             525 . I checked this three times, because I feel like all I do is take money out of savings to spend on stuff
Debt to mother:  125 (13 months left)
Spending:          650 :(
                         From this: 11, mobile phone
                                         10, life insurance for my partner. If he dies before 2045, I get 100.000 EUR
Also: clothing, hairdresser, eating out / take-away (we don't do that often) gifts, bike repairs. Recently I have been spending a ton of money on one-offs like new glasses, new coat, new winter shoes, new laptop and phone coming up .... every time I think "oh, it's just a one-off" but they just keep coming.

Total spending: EUR 2308

Result:  - 673 which means I spend all the money I save and then some every month.

Assets:
Checking account: EUR           40
Savings account one: EUR  2550(emergency fund)
Savings account two: EUR  1250(health care, 1200 insurance premium due 1 Jan)
Joint savings account: EUR  600(any money left over from joint bank account, we don't pay everything monthly) 50% ownership
Investments: EUR             4705(in index funds, 75% stock and 25% bonds)
Pre-tax:                              200
House: EUR                     98000(purchase price 3 years ago 79500 ) 50% ownership           
Loan to partner: EUR         5000 (completely forgot about this last time ... tied up in the house, 0% interest, he's not actually paying it back right now, but he would have to if we split up)

Liabilities:
Mortgage: EUR              71400 (28 years left to go, 2,25% interest. Started at 77900, downpayment is uncommon in here. Our 2%
                                              down is actually considered good, most people borrow more than the house is worth. Shared with
                                              partner.
Student loan LLB: EUR  5000 I will have to start paying this back in 2020, minimum amount will be EUR 45/month. As the
                                            interest is fixed until 2020 @ 0,01%, I'm not paying anything back until I have to.
Student loan LLM: EUR  1200

Debt to mother:     EUR 1375  Forgot this last time. She loaned me 3000 when we bought the house and told me to pay it back when I
                                             could afford it. Started to pay her back last year and will be done December 2019.

I started grad school this september and to pay for it, I've taken out a loan for tuition. On top of that, I've spent 750 out of pocket so far. I changed jobs and now go to work by bus, and the compensation I get for the travel costs doesn't completely cover them. Travel costs are also higher because a relative was in hospital and I've been referred to another hospital myself, which is in a different city so I need to take the train there every 6 weeks. I try to keep the costs of public traffic down, but it's hard because I take both buses and trains and in different areas. I've started my own business recently and so far have paid about EUR 1000 in start-up costs, but also earned about 250 so far. I didn't include this in the case study. 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 02:27:06 PM by Imma »

Blackadder

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2018, 12:12:31 PM »
Kudos for such a substantial increase in income in just one and a half years. All decisions you made sound very sensible to me (when to pay back loans/mortgage, increase the emergency fund, etc.).

As an expat working in the Netherlands, I am interested in the tax-free "IRA-type" accounts you mentioned, which if I understand correctly are exempt from equity tax as well as can be saved from your pre-tax income. The only thing I found is that stuff where you need some "factor A" number to fill in an incredible complicated form [1] which tells you how much you can save in "lijfrentes." Is that it? If so, I am allowed to save zero Euros tax-free apparently. :D

I remember some of the given numbers a little differently (60000 instead of 50000 equity tax free for couples, less equity tax, ca. 13500 instead of 15000 subtraction to calculate pension-buildable income), but that may be because your posts started in 2017 and/or I am misinformed.

[1] https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/aftrek-en-kortingen/content/hulpmiddel-lijfrentepremie-2016-en-daarna

Spruit

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2018, 12:55:21 PM »
Hi @Blackadder , maybe I can help out a bit as I've been dealing with the pension system myself. That Factor A number is the same as "pensioenaangroei": the growth of your pension capital that year. You can find this on the Uniform Pension Overzicht (UPO) of that year, if you have an employer pension plan. If you do not have this, and you have not been contibuting anything to a pension account on your own, it is 0 by definition. More info here.

@Imma I'm not sure why but somehow your spending does not add up in my brain. Is it correct that besides the sowing class, contribution to joint account, health care reservation, etc. that you've listed seperately, you spend ~650 on "one-offs" on average over the last year? That seems like a lot for the budget-conscious person you are.
To put it in perspective: it's about the same as my BF spends on his private stuff*, including some damn expensive stuff like Swarovski binoculars and new music instruments over the last years. And his clothes don't come from thrift stores, either.
So, you see, I'm surprised that it apparently amounts to the same number for you. Where did it go, do you know? And, are you sure there's not a calculation error in there somewhere?

*almost typed: on his privates, which is definitely NOT what I mean :)

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2018, 01:27:30 PM »
Kudos for such a substantial increase in income in just one and a half years. All decisions you made sound very sensible to me (when to pay back loans/mortgage, increase the emergency fund, etc.).

As an expat working in the Netherlands, I am interested in the tax-free "IRA-type" accounts you mentioned, which if I understand correctly are exempt from equity tax as well as can be saved from your pre-tax income. The only thing I found is that stuff where you need some "factor A" number to fill in an incredible complicated form [1] which tells you how much you can save in "lijfrentes." Is that it? If so, I am allowed to save zero Euros tax-free apparently. :D

I remember some of the given numbers a little differently (60000 instead of 50000 equity tax free for couples, less equity tax, ca. 13500 instead of 15000 subtraction to calculate pension-buildable income), but that may be because your posts started in 2017 and/or I am misinformed.

[1] https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/aftrek-en-kortingen/content/hulpmiddel-lijfrentepremie-2016-en-daarna

You are right about the numbers! They change slightly every year and the equity tax free amount was raised substantially by the current government.

You are also correct about the pre-tax retirement accounts, that's what I use. If your company doesn't have a pension scheme, or you were unemployed / selfemployed for a part of the year, this will be reflected in the factor A and you will be able to contribute some money to a retirement account. I have to say, for an expat you are very will informed. I meet quite a lot of expats through my job and many completely rely on their tax advisors, they have no idea.

At this point in time, you have to buy an annuity from the money, but this might change in the future. You can choose to let the annuity start before traditional retirement age, but as it has to continue until at least AOW- age + 20 years, the amount would be lower if you retired early.

Why am I contributing anyway?
- It's a relatively small amount of money, just a couple thousand €, that will not truly affect my future, and this way it can continue to grow for a couple of decades
- Unlike money in a pension fund, if you pass away before retiring, the account will go to your heirs
- Our income is increasing significantly and I'd like to stay in the lower tax brackets for as long as we can
- In my previous job I did not have a pension scheme and after-tax investments / savings have the disadvantage of being taken into account for long-term care, benefits etc. A pre-tax pension is protected from this so you won't end up destitute in old age
- I have started my own business recently and once I make a profit, I can subtract a certain % from my profit and add this money to my pre-tax account.

@Spruit This is based on all my spending since I've started my new job, almost 3 months ago. If I look at the numbers from the race to 10k-thread, it seems my progress stopped somewhere this summer. I have had some big expenses over the past couple of months: about €750 for the LLM, new glasses and sunglasses that were about €500 together, new coat, new shoes, etc. The numbers don't make sense to me at all but they do seem to add up. You are right that I'm naturally frugal so I just can't believe where all my money goes. I mean, I've mended a sheet with a hole in it and darned a hiking sock today :)

I am installing the Grip app right now. I haven't tracked expenses in years but it seems necessary now.

Spruit

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2018, 06:51:22 PM »
So, you did the calculation from bankstatements already and those confirm it? I haven't been as diligent in tracking myself lately, but as I pay everything via debit card it's easy to get back the data. Sorry to be a pain in the backside, just curious.

If it's based on just 3 months, that's a good sign. Sometimes everything does come all at once, and it's just an expensive bump in the road. I don't think you've fallen for hedonic adaptation this quickly if you're mending sheets ;)


Linea_Norway

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2018, 02:07:04 AM »
Hallo Imma,

I don't have concrete advice, but want to tell you that I made a comparison between my 2018 and 2017 expenses. Just my half, as DH does not track his expenses.

I spend almost 2000 euro more this year than last year. I had to investigate where it went:
- a new fancy-brand tent, 800 euro
- a new smartphone, 300 euro
- a new refrigerator for the cabin, 450 euro
- financial contribution to keeping the shop at our cabin alive, 250 euro
- extra unplanned income taxes, 450 euro
- food, 400 euro
- home, 750 euro.

For home, I discovered that living in our house has become more expensive. I now pay for a property tax and I pay more for electricity, garbage, water and private road than last year.

I did save 400 euro on clothes and 400 euro on health related costs (doctor, dentist, medicine), compared to last year.

What I'm trying to say here, is that life in general can become more expensive, even if you try to live frugally the whole time. And the one-time expenses appear every so many years and give you a choice of buying new or used.

I am wondering if your SO pays for the house? He thinks it is a good investment to pay down the mortgage. But does he also contribute? Or do you specify that you only pay down your part of the mortgage?

It is an option for him to become a private music teacher and teach individual children at home every week?

Could you cut out the hairdresser? If you have short hair, you need a haircut quit often. What about growing it long and have a haircut once a year. Your SO could cut it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 03:47:16 AM by Linda_Norway »

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2018, 03:16:03 AM »
We pay all joint expenses 50/50. We just live really cheaply. We each pay about €350/month into the joint account and that covers everything.

Last night I tracked every single expensive for 2018 in an app and it seems that averaged out over the entire year, it's not that bad, but it's clear that aug - sept - oct - nov have been incredibly expensive. I am glad to know I'm still generally frugal :) . I've spent €11 on coffee and lunch in 2018 so far, €250 on restaurants (so that's maybe 4 meals?) and €50 on the hairdresser  - but €1100 on health related costs, for example. And the good news is, I haven't spent much in December at all so it seems I'm back on track now.   

Hirondelle

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2018, 05:18:45 AM »
Seems like all your spending has still been very reasonable and that the 3 months give a skewed view. Hope it'll get back to normal soon for you. 3 months is maybe just a too short time to make an estimate of your expenses. E.g. if I'd look at my expenses for July - September they'd also be way up and a similar thing can be seen for last year Nov/Dec (moving + health insurance). Just wait for a few more months to see how it all equals out.

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2019, 07:36:41 AM »
Just a quick update, two years after the first post.

Life situation Still cohabiting couple, I'm 29 by now, we're still keeping finances completely separate. I've finished the first year of my Master's degree and expect to finish my degree in spring.

Gross Salary/Wages: 1870 EUR / month for 24 hours a week. Monthly wage is 1730, I get one extra month's worth of salary in May. I've got a meeting scheduled where I will ask for a raise. I started a business last year that is turning a small profit, but due to a heavy courseload I haven't been able to spend that much time growing the business. I have 3 steady customers now and am in talks with a potential 4th regular. 

Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions 401k, HSA, FSA, IRA, insurance, etc. - whatever you have
Our pension system is complicated. See first post. In my current job, I do have a pension now, paid for by my employer, but it's pretty bad. They pay €10/week into this pension. I am also paying €100/month into a pre-tax pension investment account now.

Other Ordinary Income: average €200/month pre-tax from business. I keep this money separate and also have some expenses, like a new laptop and tuition costs. There is about €450 in my business account right now. I'm not touching this money for living expenses right now so it's not accounted for in the case study.

Taxes: From my regular monthly paycheck of EUR 1730, 180 EUR is deducted in income tax and contribution to social security and health care, so my take home pay is 1550 EUR. I get tax credits because I work even though I'm chronically ill. I also get a €95  tax-free compensation for travel costs. It was calculated wrong when I started working there, so I was reimbursed when the mistake was discovered.

Current expenses: (average of the last 6 months)
Take home pay: 1645
To joint account:  400 (partner also pays 400)
                          from this                  Mortgage 300, original sum 77900, now 70100, 26 years left at 2,2% interest
                                                                         25, water and taxes on water (fixed a leak so use is lower)
                                                                         81, gas and electricity - prices are up, use is down from last year
                                                                         33, internet
                                                                         50, local taxes and garbage collection
                                                                         15, trade union membership
                                                                           6, netflix that we share with a relative
                                                                         11, home insurance
                                                                         35, liability and contents insurance. Expensive so it covers partner's music gear.
                                                                        155, food (staples). Any kind of fancy food goes from our own accounts.
                                                                            4, account costs
                                                                                any left over money is dumped into our joint savings and used for incidental
                                                                                payments and small DIY costs etc.
                                                                       
Health care:       150 (I have a special savings account for these costs)
Investments:      175 in index funds
                         100 in pre-tax retirement acccount (this is not deducted from my wages, but included in my tax return next year)
Public transport:  200 We do not have a car and our relatives all live about 40-60km away. A lot of this is for work
Fun:                   117 Includes holidays, sewing class, supplies
Home:                869 This figure is skewed because we just finished a big project that we saved up for for several years
Debt to mother:  125 (5 months left)
Student loan:        45 Started paying back this month.
Mobile phone:       11
Life insurance:      10
Extra food:         212 This is shameful. So far 0 in August. This is luxury food on top of food budget, take away, restaurants, drinks with
                               friends. Most of the expenses occured in a relatively small period of time.
Other:                   8 any random things
Shopping:            75 Includes both clothing and books for degree.                                         

Left over:            17 I left the maintenance expense out because this was a one-off payed from savings.

Assets:
Checking account: EUR           100
Savings account one: EUR      500(emergency fund, depleted after big home project)
Savings account two: EUR      650 (health care fund)
Joint savings account: EUR     600(any money left over from joint bank account, we don't pay everything monthly) 50% ownership
Investments: EUR                6600(in index funds, 75% stock and 25% bonds)
Pre-tax:                              1100
House: EUR                     102000(purchase price 4 years ago 79500 ) 50% ownership           
Loan to partner: EUR           7000 (tied up in the house, 0% interest, he pays back occasionally but as I earn more I pay more in maintenance costs, we just log this in case we split up)
Pension:                               475 This is the current value, it's paid for 100% by my employer and I can't access it until I'm 67.
                                                  It's free money but if I worked there for the rest of my career it would be maybe 3000/year.
                                                 
Liabilities:
Mortgage: EUR              70100 27 years left to go, 2,25% interest. Started at 77900, shared with partner.
Student loan LLB: EUR    4782  started paying back last month, minimum is 45/month, interest is 0.01%
Student loan LLM: EUR    2592  don't have to start paying back until 1 year after graduating, interest is also 0.01%
Debt to mother:     EUR     625 Will be done December 2019.

This is still a fairly bleak picture for someone who's net worth has almost doubled over the past year! I don't include any non-regular income in this case study, but I got a €2000 tax return this year, I sell some stuff online, I make some money through my business, my partner occasionally pays me loan payments. So there's more money coming in than just my wages. 100% of my tuition is paid from student loan payments so I haven't included the costs, just the loan balance. When I'm stressed out and super tired I tend to stress eat and I don't have the mental energy left to make wise decisions. The last month of work before my vacation was hell, I worked very long days, had exams, felt unwell, wasn't always home when the grocery store was open, etc. A load of excuses of course but that's what happened. We will actually have money left over from the grocery budget this month and I have spent 0 on extra food so far. I'm nearly done with paying back my mother, but I did start paying back my student loan.

The loan to partner category is a difficult one. We split everything 50/50 so we each pay half of maintenance. My income is higher than his and we have decided we're still going to keep our income separate. We are fixing up a home (nearly done) and it feels like a waste to wait with maintenance when I've got the money sitting in my savings account, waiting for him to save up this kind of money. I paid more when we bought the house and we decided that we'd write that down as a loan but he wouldn't pay me back until we sold. As I've started to pay more maintenance (which we always write down as a loan) he started to feel uncomfortable about not paying me back, so he is paying me back infrequently now. This is a difficult situation. We always knew I was going to out-earn him eventually and we always figured we'd cross that bridge when we got there. We're there now. We still feel very comfortable about keeping finances separate - the reason his income is lower is because he doesn't want to work more, while I'm fairly ambitious. It's a choice and we both feel like I shouldn't be sponsoring his choice. On the other hand I can understand he feels uncomfortable about owing so much money, and he understands I'm not happy with deferring necessary maintenance when I've got the money in my savings account. We haven't found a solution yet.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2019, 02:26:09 PM »
About having a lower income partner, you are probably living in a home above his means. If he really had to pay 50% when buying it and of all the maintenance, he probably couldn't afford to live there. The question is whether it was your choice to buy that home, despite his lower income, or your combined choice. If it was your choice, you could consider doing a 60/40 solution or something like that.

Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2019, 03:37:22 PM »
We live in probably the cheapest home you can find in NL. Our mortgage is less than what he used to pay for a 12m2 bedroom in a student house. So there's no cheaper alternative and we decided to buy this house together and share the costs 50/50. That's all pretty much set in stone.

I paid most of the closing costs for the house back when we bought it, because his savings were lower than mine - he isn't bad with money, together we saved 1 year worth of income before buying, I just had a little bit more saved up. He earned twice as much as I did back then because I was still a student. Honestly it was never really my intention that he'd pay back that money, I just wanted it black on white in case we split up.

Maintenance hasn't really been a problem so far because we both like quite a basic style, we renovated the bathroom for €1500 a few years back because neither of us care about fancy tiles etc. The big project we did recently was the garden - the previous owners used it as a dump and there were tons of rubble in it. He would rather have waited another year to save up and I pushed it through because I have the money and I love gardening and it looked so bad I preferred to keep the curtains closed. I didn't see the point in waiting another year. Especially over the last year the gap between our incomes is growing because I'm working more in a better paid job and he has taken a job that's paying less than his previous job. He's happy in his new workplace and we both agree that we should still pay the bills 50/50 because we are both adults who make our own choices and live with the consequences.

Honestly, if it was up to me, I've said we can just write the costs for the project down and he can pay me back sometime (aka if we split up or when he makes more money) but I also understand he doesn't feel comfortable because he's basically 'borrowing' money and he hates debt. We've already come to the agreement a few years back that I get his tax return to go towards the debt every year.

I'm sure he'll pay me back for this project, he's good with money, he'll find a way, and any luxury projects that he doesn't care about I pay for myself. But after this the next big project is looming: the kitchen. This is the last project before the renovation is complete. The kitchen is 40 years old and on its last legs. He'll need a year to pay me back for the garden, I'll need 2 years to save money to pay for the entire kitchen project (so 2021) and he'll need at least 2 years after next year to save up his half (so 2022 or 3). I'm just a bit unsure what the best option is. I don't want to wait and make do with a crappy kitchen but if the roles were reversed I also wouldn't be happy with him paying for everything. This is an issue that's going to come up more often now I'm making so much more money.

Manchester

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2019, 06:18:54 AM »
Hi Imma,

If I were you I would consider writing off the 7k loan to your partner.  If you were to break up, I presume you would sell your house?  If so, you could claim that money back before splitting the remainder?  When I bought my house, I had around £15k more than my girlfriend to put down as a deposit.  We felt it was sensible to write an informal contract whereby I would receive the first £15k from a future house sale before we split the rest 50/50.  Our house has appreciated so much in value that I'd get my money back and more, so I wouldn't be out of pocket.



Imma

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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2019, 08:01:46 AM »
If we were to separate I think one of us would likely buy the other out - we would both qualify to take over the mortgage on our own. I think it would likely be me because I have more ties to this city but it really could be either one of us.

The only reason we made the formal loan agreement is in case of us splitting up, it's actually written in the agreement that there's 0% interest and no paying back required as long as we're together, but he hates the thought of being in debt, even if it's not a 'real' debt. He knows I don't really need the money for anything right now.

I don't want to completely write off the debt - to be blunt, it's my money, I don't mind using it for a joint purpose like our home that we enjoy, but I don't feel like gifting him almost half a year 's worth of my hard earned income to spend on a home with a new partner. And to be fair I also really don't think he'd like to receive charity.

I know our set-up is very far from traditional but we are both very proudly spending our own money. We're not rigid (for example, it's not like we split out the entire bill when we go out for dinner, we take turns to pay)  but we have always split 50/50 as a matter of principe regardless of income. I'm proud to earn a good income despite health struggles, he's proud he's getting by with little paid work so he can spend a lot of time on his art.

chrisgermany

  • Bristles
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Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2019, 10:30:39 AM »
I think you both have every right to be proud of your achievements. You have found agreement with your partner and it works.
Before we married DH was already working as teacher while I was a student and worked part time. His net income was more than 2x mine. So when we moved into our first appartment, we created an account for rent food and household expense and he paid into that 2x of my share. For him it was still not more expensive than his former rent , food and household expense and my share did not increase, too.
It worked well for us, our tastes are similar and we both were rather frugal already then.
One year later we married, bought our house. One year later I started working, salary almost equal to his. When we ER'ed in 2013, my salary was 2x his. Before marriage we documented our financial status (I am a lawyer and banker  ;D  ) but money has not been an issue till today.
I hope you will experience the same with your partner.

chrisgermany

  • Bristles
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  • Posts: 267
Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2019, 10:32:10 AM »
Oh, and our house was old, we renovated step by step as money came in.

Imma

  • Magnum Stache
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  • Location: Europe
Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2020, 06:47:22 AM »
Here's a pandemic update! I'm 30 next month, this seems as good as a time as any to make up the balance and set goals for the future.

Life Situation: Cohabiting couple, 29 and 33 years old, no kids. Still suffering from the same chronic illness, due to that children are unlikely to be in our future. We keep our finances completely separate, so this concerns only me, but he has roughly the same income (but works many more hours a week to earn it) and the same spending pattern. In our country cohabiting couples have basically the same rights as married couples, so while we do plan to get married someday it doesn't matter much for this case study. Doing a Master's degree parttime and I'm nearly finished.

Net income from job: 1868 EUR (6-month average) 1860 (12-month average)

Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions 401k, HSA, FSA, IRA, insurance, etc. - whatever you have
Company pension plan: 40 EUR is deducted from my wages every month, employer throws in 165 EUR every month.
At retirement age, I have to buy an annuity from this pot of money. 

Other Ordinary Income:
Side hustle: 103 EUR (6) 134 EUR (12)
Student loans: 127 EUR (6) 149 (EUR (12)

Total: 2098 (6 month average)  /  2143 (12 month average)


Current expenses:
Take home:                2098                                       /   2143
To joint account:           450                                       /    450
To joint savings:           100                                      /     100 (for maintenance/DIY)                                                                       
To index funds:             300                                     /      300
To pre-tax retirement:   100                                    /       100

Left for spending:        1148                                    /     1193
"Living" category             42                                   /          35
House & garden               35                                  /        559
Food and drinks             189                                  /         225
- Groceries                     147                                 /         167
- Restaurants                 17                                  /            30
- Coffee + snacks           22                                 /             17
Transport                      164                               /             191
-Public transit                144                              /              179
-Bike maintenance           21                              /                11
Shopping                        75                            /                 108
-Clothing                          9                               /                20
-Electronics                      0                                /                35
-Books                             39                             /                 31
-Gifts                               5                              /                  3
-Other                             20                            /                  19
Entertainment                  77                           /                  120
-Museum etc                     4                           /                    37
-Crafting class + supplies 73                        /                      83
Health & Beauty               197                        /                   133
-Health insurance             111                       /                     84
-Beauty                             18                        /                    16
-Eyecare                           68                        /                     34
Other                               139                      /                     160
-Education                        114                     /                      137
-Other                               25                     /                         23             

Left over:                         230                    /             

I have used the categories from my budget app.
Living = life insurance, phone bill
House & garden = seems clear. We did a big DIY project last summer, 35 reflects our normal spending
Food & drinks = it's clear that I spend less when I'm home. My coffee and snacks budget is up because my weekly outing is now the local bakery where I get coffee and cake.
Transport = work from home really helps keeping costs down! I had yearly maintenance done on both of my bikes recently
Shopping = this feels like a big big expensive, I feel like I've been getting out of control with shopping.... But actually compared to the rest of the world it's probably nothing. Last autumn I bought a new expensive work shoes and I've replaced some items of clothing here and there. I am guilty of buying too many books, but I do actually read them and soms of the books I buy are specialist textbooks and not easily available for less money. Other is stuff like a photoframe or a roll of tape or something else that doesn't fit anywhere else (for Dutchies: anything I buy at hema). My entertainment budget feels particularly high but of course isn't really that high. I pay for classes from an expert who's not cheap and I buy supplies every now and then. I bought quite a lot of supplies recently but the classes have been cancelled for the last couple of months. Health is a relatively high percentage of my spending but it's all necessary. I could skip those 3 haircuts a year and DIY instead but I doubt the savings would be worth it.

The leftover money goes to the emergency fund and charitable giving.


Assets:
Savings accounts:  EUR 3000
Post-tax investing: EUR 9000 (80% stocks 20% bonds)
Pre-tax investing:  EUR 1800 (100% stocks)
House: EUR 105000 (purchase price 79500 5 years ago, market was booming until recently, but who knows now) 50% ownership           
Work retirement: EUR 1100 (this is mine and this will continue to grow in the market until I'm of retirement age, regardless of my job)

From previous jobs I am entitled to a pension of about EUR 100 / year .... this money will not continue to grow. I'm much happier with my current retirement plan which is just a big pot of money. I also have some investment choices - defensive, offensive and neutral. Neutral is default, I haven't looked into this but I'm considering switching to offensive. I'm 35 years from retirement age.

Liabilities:
Mortgage: EUR                              68000 (25 years left to go, 2,25% interest)
Bachelor's student debt: EUR           4200 (0% interest, I pay minimum amount every month)
Master's student debt: EUR              3000 (don't have to pay anything back yet as I'm currently in grad school)

I am kind of happy with my progress but I'm a bit concerned about my relatively low emergency fund. My job contract ends in 3 months and I'm not sure if it will be renewed. Of course, I would get unemployment benefits at EUR 1300/1350 gross, I'd get a small payout from work and until recently I was pretty confident of my chances to find a new job quickly. But these times are uncertain. I have been considering adding more money to my EF, but that would mean skipping some expenses. Some will be quite easy: I hardly spend anything on transport now, I'm not going to need clothes now I'm working from home - I needed new summer shoes for work but I'm not buying them now. Reducing the food budget has been difficult, but will be easier the coming months now the grocery stores are better stocked and we have veggies from the garden. I could choose to stop saving for home maintenance, we're not saving to fix a leaking roof or something, but those aren't totally unnecessary luxury expenses either. We're not buying golden taps but doing maintenance to prevent future damage. The entertainment budget would be relatively easy to slash but I'm pretty bored at home honestly.

Linea_Norway

  • Walrus Stache
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  • Posts: 8569
  • Location: Norway
Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2020, 08:08:59 AM »
How is your sidegig doing? Is there any chance you could take on more clients or more worknif your contract ends?

Imma

  • Magnum Stache
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  • Posts: 3193
  • Location: Europe
Re: Case study: another FIRE in Europe, at all possible?
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2020, 09:42:30 AM »
How is your sidegig doing? Is there any chance you could take on more clients or more worknif your contract ends?

Many customers have been closed but work is slowly picking up again! Right now I find customers through word of mouth but I'm thinking of spending this summer looking for more customers. My day job doesn't mind as long as I'm not too visible - they don't want people to get confused about what my main role is.

I work 3 days a week which was a challenge already when I worked in the office, but now I'm working from home it's fine. My employer doesn't offer more hours currently, but if I was working from home all the time I think 4 days would be possible.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!