Author Topic: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..  (Read 3839 times)

West996

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Topic Title: Reader Case Study - Looking for general advice and strategy...

Life Situation: Considering buying dwelling and land many years before we are ready to use it. My wife and I currently live in Toronto, Ontario Canada. The reason we live here is for work, and because my step daughter's father is close by. There is a high probability that as soon as we can we will move out of this expensive city and relocate to where my in-laws currently live. A smaller town surrounded by farmland.

It has been a long time desire of mine to own a little bit of land. Some forest space or farm land. As an example we are currently considering a property with a decent 3 bedroom, 1 bathroom bungalow. It sits on just over 3 acres of land, 2.5 acres of active farmland. The property is listed for $629,000. I would want to pay no more than $609,000

The property is in a very good location. Still close enough to town to have municipal water and hydro and paved road access.

We estimate that we could rent the house for $2200 per month. In fact the current owner is willing to stay and rent for at least 6 months. We could also work our a land lease or crop share agreement for the farm land but from what I have researched so far that is only $1000-2000 per year.

The idea is that we would be buying this property now to eventually come to live at in 8-10 years, instead of waiting that long to buy property where by that time who knows if it will even be possible.

Gross Salary/Wages: Myself $109,000/y, Spouse 98,000/y

Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions 5% investments which are company matched

Other Ordinary Income: 1 rental property, $500 per month cash flow

Actual Expenses We pay rent $3200 per month, no utilities, no car payment, no credit car debt

Adjusted Gross Income: Household $168,000
Post Tax Income bi-weekly Earner 1: $2755 Earner 2: $2500

Taxes: Ontario Income Tax is:
Canadian federal tax bracket   Canadian federal tax rate
$53,359 or less   15.00%
$53,359 - $106,717   20.50%
$106,717 - $165,430   26.00%
$165,430 - $235,675   29.00%
More than $235,675   33.00%
Ontario tax bracket   Ontario tax rate
first $49,231   5.05%
over $49,231 up to $98,463   9.15%
over $98,463 up to $150,000   11.16%
over $150,000 up to $220,000   12.16%
over $220,000   13.16%


Current expenses:

Rent $3240
Food $1000
Internet $100
Insurance (Car, Home, Rental) $350
------
$4690/m


Assets:
Rental Property - Approx value is $400,000 (Mortgage left is $150,000)
2019 Honda CRV
WealthSimple EFT investments - $150,000
'Pension' held in Sunlife investments - $150,000
Liquid Cash in promotional savings account - $60,000

Liabilities:
Rental Property Mortgage: $150,000 - 5 year fixed around 5%

Specific Question(s):

Q - We will not be able to cash flow a $600,000 mortgage with a $2200/m rental and some crop share cash. Should I pull money from WealthSimple investments and pay more than 20% down to minimize my monthly payment as much as possible?

Q - Am I on the right track thinking that the prices of real estate and land may be unattainable for us over the next 10 years, hence the strategy to purchase the property now even though we are not ready to move there?

Q - May be similar to the above question, but am I on the right track to think that the money I put towards the down payment today, as well as monthly payments towards the mortgage that rent will not covered, and interest paid on that mortgage over time has a decent chance to be comparable to keeping all that money invested and looking to buy the property closer to when we are ready to move in?

I would love to hear any other potential pros and cons to this situation. I will admit up front that our finance and spending need review and organization. I am not nearly as squared away as many on this forum are, hence when I pulled up the case study spreadsheet my head exploded. I'm also Canadian, is there a Canadian version anyone can recommend? I'd love to work towards being able to fill something like that out regardless of our decision to purchase a property like this now or later.

Thank you to anyone who reads and/or response. I hope that I provided enough detail to show that I respect this forum and the process here while understanding I have a long way to go.

Telecaster

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3523
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Q - We will not be able to cash flow a $600,000 mortgage with a $2200/m rental and some crop share cash. Should I pull money from WealthSimple investments and pay more than 20% down to minimize my monthly payment as much as possible?

Your basic assumption is that housing prices will increase faster than your wages/investments and hence be more expensive in real terms in the future.   So you want to buy now capturing the appreciation and the potential savings for when you move in the future. 

BUT the quoted part says you are guaranteed to lose money until you move.  So you are betting that your guaranteed loss is going to be less than your hypothetical loss.

Those aren't normally good bets to take unless you have extremely high conviction that you are correct on the price appreciation.   


West996

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Thank you for your reply Telecaster.

At first I wasn't considering the amount that I had to cover for the mortgage payment as loss because I viewed it as just paying for part of the mortgage for a house that I own.

But because it isn't a house I'm living in and so little of that payment goes towards principal It's correct to see it as a loss.

So hypothetically if the property cashflow was -$1000/m, I'm effectively losing $1000 per month to 'secure' this property for the future with the assumption that is still cheaper then waiting and buying a similar property in the future.

Sorry I'm just thinking out loud here, so my assumption is that the property would appreciate more than 12,000 per year over the next 8-10 years. So that's 2%ish appreciation per year. A quick google search (to be taken with a gain of salt) says the Canadian housing market averages 6% appreciation per year over the last 15 years.

I still take your point of a hypothetical loss over a guaranteed one though.

mspym

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9654
  • Location: Aotearoa
You are also committing yourself to a future location that might not be right for Future You, and losing money while doing so. I would be hesitant just on that ground.

We explored many possible locations and considered buying a place in multiple places in three different countries but kept not being sure enough to make the math palatable. When we got closer to FI, there was exactly the right house in a location that we hadn't previously considered that I pounced on. It's not the sort of place that the me from 5-8 years ago would have considered and we'll be very happy there.

PMJL34

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 622
terrible idea OP.

worst case scenario: 12k/year loss guaranteed before repairs/capex/vacancy/management costs + tenant issues + you don't want to move there in the future because life happens.

best case scenario: you paid 12k/year loss guaranteed before repairs/capex/vacancy/management costs + no tenant issues +you want to move there and your property appreciated nicely.

The best case scenario just isn't worth the risk imo.

just keep saving money and buy when you are ready to move.


former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8741
  • Location: Avalon
You've already got a high percentage of your net worth ($250k out of $610k) in residential Canadian property.  That's already a good hedge against future property values rising. 

Your investments of $300k currently only fund expenditure of $12k a year, and your currently expenditure is $56k a year.  You are looking to move in 8 - 10 years, is that your expected retirement date? If so, then at the same spending rate you are looking to save and invest enough in those 10 years to end up with about $1.4m, which would mean investing abut $75k a year until then (these are rough figures, do your own math).  If your spending figure is correct and you are investing all your post-tax income that you don't spend you are on track to get there on your current figures.  If you take money out of your current investments and/or have to cash flow this property purchase then you are not.

So I'm with Telecaster and West996 on the financials.

The only other thing to consider is: is this property truly unique?  It doesn't sound it to me, particularly if you want farmland to rent: parcels of farm land usually turn up fairly regularly and rented farm land doesn't need to be next to your home.  And as mspym says, a lot can change over 10 years.  So I'm with mspym on the emotional side of this.

You are doing great so far: great incomes, no debt, good income to expenditure ratio, a decent start on investments.  Carrying on as you are looks like a good option to me.

West996

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 22
I want to thank everyone who read and responded to my request. It is truly invaluable to have a generous community take the time to a third person, unemotional perspective.

We went and saw the property yesterday.

I will admit, there is an aspect of the property that does give it a unique feeling.
1. It is 15 minutes away from 3 different, growing cities. (10 minutes from grocery store, schools, ect)
2. Though it is a farm property, it still has municipal water service.
3. There is a natural creek that runs along one side.

That being said I do believe I'm being emotional.
1. This is the first property since I've been looking that was viable from a location and price point perspective. (Meaning we could do it, not that we should.)
2. I am experiencing a FOMO (Fear of missing out) feeling because farm land is become more and more scarce and I'm afraid I'll be priced out of the market completely soon
3. I have a fantasy of owning property like this and being more self sufficient BUT I am not a farmer, no one in my family is a farmer, I do not know how to farm, I have not done enough research to even know if this is a smart buy from a farming perspective and I have no advisor that I trust that I can ask.

All these things are creating the illusion that this is a unique opportunity and it might be, however it is far more likely that it is not. If I'm serious about doing something like this I need to do a lot more research, organize my finances but much better and continue to educate myself.

Along with the sobering comments I have just started reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad, for the first time and though I'm only just beginning, It has already helped to cool my jets. It doesn't sound like I'd be purchasing an asset here, but a liability. I should not be making the the biggest purchase of my life with 10% of the knowledge and data I should have.

Thanks again, everyone. I hope to be of similar help to others one day.

Laura33

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3446
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
IMO, take your time.  The key unknown here is you:  what you think you want now may well not be what you will actually want/need by the time you're ready to make the move.

We did what you propose:  we know where we want to be in retirement, so when we got a good deal on a condo there after the 2008-09 crash, we bought one.  We rented it to cover the mortgage, but took probably 5 years to break even with condo fees/maintenance.  Now that we're maybe a year or two out, we've realized the condo won't actually work for us -- it's 2Br, we want 3 (kids could share when little, but now they're grown); DH wants a garage for a shop, and there's no room for one there; and the town recently changed the laws so we can no longer do the short-term rentals we planned for when we aren't there.  So here we are, 12 years later, looking for a new place -- and having to figure out a Starker exchange to avoid capital gains.

Here's the kicker:  condo has more than doubled in value, so you'd think it would have been a great investment, right?  Except DH figured out that we've averaged about a 2-3% return over the time we've owned it.  That money would have been a lot better off just sitting in VTSAX -- and we'd have saved a lot of mental energy managing shit (including a lawsuit I did pro bono on behalf of the condo board when an owner refused to pay). 

tl;dr:  cash is always king.

LifeHappens

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 12072
  • Location: Tampa-ish
3. I have a fantasy of owning property like this and being more self sufficient BUT I am not a farmer, no one in my family is a farmer, I do not know how to farm, I have not done enough research to even know if this is a smart buy from a farming perspective and I have no advisor that I trust that I can ask.
This is a major red flag for me. So, basically, my parents did this when they were young. They left a major city and bought a hobby farm. They didn't know what they were doing and were seriously under-resourced.  The farming fell by the wayside pretty quickly. Now they just live on a big parcel of land that has been fallow for decades.

If you really want to explore this option, do the research and get the experience up front. Turn any yard/patio you have into growing space. Get a community garden plot. Volunteer at a local organic farm. Study permaculture. Use your vacation time for WWOOFing trips. Do any and everything you can to do to make sure this is really how you want to spend your time.

ricelife

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 80
  • Location: Canada
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2023, 10:31:45 PM »
definitely feel like your 'forever home' needs some more thinking. As someone who doesn't know how to farm how can you be sure you will like it?

But I feel for you. I also live in Ontario and the FOMO to own a nice house is very real. You seem to have a lot of your net worth in real estate with your current rental property so I agree with pp above.

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22175
  • Age: 65
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2023, 02:14:12 AM »
Yeah, I have a story, but it's after 1am and meeting my walking partner in six hours. I'll share my experience later. Until then, what Laura33 says.

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 16984
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2023, 04:20:08 AM »
"Fantasy" is the right term.

Living on a farm is a slog, and not something I would want to take on later in life.

Have you ever lived anywhere rural? Ever had to maintain land? Are you planning to actually farm?

FTR, my parents had this fantasy and it now feels like a prison. They physically can't handle it anymore and they're only in their 60s and 70s.

I would say that if you have zero experience living on a farm, you aren't actually equipped to know if this property is worth the insane cost to lock it down.

I get the fantasy of getting out of the city and getting into nature. I bought a house in rural Newfoundland and that's where I am right now. But I grew up rural, lived on a farm for a few years. I know how to judge the livability of a small town and property.

I also don't have any land. By design. But I have ENORMOUS access to public land that the municipality maintains. My back yard (aka rock face) opens up to endless hiking trails along the ocean cliffs. But my lawn can be mowed in about 20 minutes.

Why do you feel you need to own nature to be able to enjoy it? What are you hoping to get from owning farmland aside from the romantic vision of being surrounded by green?

That's not rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious what the tangible, practical reason is to own a pile of farmland instead of buying a modest property in a place that's green?

I personally find that this fantasy is common among major city folks who have little to no understanding of rural life. It's usually symbolic of a desire to escape something about their urban lives.

But you have to remember that once you retire and no longer have to live in Toronto, most of the things you feel the powerful urge to escape will be gone.

If your vision of living on this property is that it's peaceful, then you missed something along the way. Yes, living rural can be very peaceful, but owning and managing a farmland acreage is not.

I guarantee you that my little rural Newfoundland house on a postage stamp size lot is infinitely more peaceful than my mom's acreage.

Now, you might have a solid reason for this. It might not be the stereotypical overworked city dwellers feeling an overwhelming drive to "get away and finally have peace" thing that drives most folks like you to have this fantasy.

I'm all ears.

I'm also not shitting on that fantasy, because I'm literally living it at this very moment. You just couldn't get me to buy a farm with a gun to my head.

mspym

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9654
  • Location: Aotearoa
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2023, 01:14:33 PM »
To @Metalcatís point, we had a solid three years of looking at cool properties with acreage - at one point we wanted to buy an old school camp with all the cabins! - but now it feels like we had a lucky escape. We live in a small rural town in walking distance of countryside, the beach, a supermarket and a library. We saw horses yesterday while also not having to own and look after horses. We donít have to get in the car to buy basic necessities. Meanwhile, my sisterís husband is a farmer from a farming family. Suddenly neither of his parents are allowed to drive anymore. So now driving the parents has been added to the endless list of jobs to do. There is *nothing* within walking distance. My mum lives with them and still has her license but who knows for how much longer.

Fomerly known as something

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1619
  • Location: CA
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2023, 08:23:38 PM »
All that metalcat and Laura33 said.

Iíve owned my forever home, several times now.  But there is always something I had to comprise on when purchasing such home.  I also now have no land of my own, but access to tons of public land.  Stuff I can enjoy without having to maintain at all.  That is my personal preference.

I no longer look for forever, but just something I will be happy with for a good long while instead.

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22175
  • Age: 65
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2023, 09:12:32 PM »
I bought my retirement home in 2003. It hasn't appreciated nearly as much as if I had just bought index funds.

When DH and I got married, we actually bought two more in the same lovely retirement community. We bought those near the bottom of the market, so they've done better. We like the community and enjoy our visits there.

Now that DH has retired, we're not that all interested in moving there.

You just don't know what future you is really going to want when you get there.

I vote no.

GilesMM

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1426
  • Location: PNW
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2023, 05:42:03 AM »
We bought our forever home in 2007. Spouse declared "I will die in this house."  Sold it in 2021 as spouse felt it was suboptimal.

Bought a really dreamy forever home in 2012. Sold it in 2022 as spouse was not happy with layout and it had more than tripled in value which bothered me.  Friends wept at loss.


Bought current forever retirement home in 2020.  Meets all spousal requirements and then some.  Spouse doesn't like the general area/region and is now house shopping another metro area.

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 16984
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2023, 05:44:24 AM »
I bought my retirement home in 2003. It hasn't appreciated nearly as much as if I had just bought index funds.

When DH and I got married, we actually bought two more in the same lovely retirement community. We bought those near the bottom of the market, so they've done better. We like the community and enjoy our visits there.

Now that DH has retired, we're not that all interested in moving there.

You just don't know what future you is really going to want when you get there.

I vote no.

Exactly.

I bought a home for my senior years when I was in my 30s, but the opposite of the kind of "retirement acreage" that people here dream about.

I bought a small apartment in a highrise with no stairs, full wheelchair accessibility, stores, a gym, and a pool in the complex, heated indoor parking, no lawn maintenance, and the place even came with bars in the shower because this building is so popular with seniors.

The biggest concern for me in my senior years will be mobility challenges and access to specialty medical services, not just access to a doctor, but high end specialists, and allied health providers.

My plan is to live my rural adventure in my 40s, but I'll never sell my accessible condo in a major urban center, because I'm priced out of the area now and want to always be able to move back as needed.

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 16984
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2023, 05:46:23 AM »
We bought our forever home in 2007. Spouse declared "I will die in this house."  Sold it in 2021 as spouse felt it was suboptimal.

Bought a really dreamy forever home in 2012. Sold it in 2022 as spouse was not happy with layout and it had more than tripled in value which bothered me.  Friends wept at loss.


Bought current forever retirement home in 2020.  Meets all spousal requirements and then some.  Spouse doesn't like the general area/region and is now house shopping another metro area.

My parents have been saying for 20+ years that they want to die on their acreage, which as a medical professional has always made my eyes roll.

A stroke and some serious lower back pain later and they're realizing that you don't just get to choose these things.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20641
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2023, 09:55:10 AM »
I'm another person who moved from the country to the city.

What has not been mentioned that living in farm country is not living in nature.  Lots of heavy farm equipment on the roads.  Do you know what they are spraying?  At my last house it took 3 years of my non-chemical gardening and lawn care before I had birds and bees come back.  My last dog and 2 cats all died of abdominal tumours, they had all lived their lives in farm country.  My dogs and cats living in a forested area did not die of tumours, they died of old age complications.

If you want nature, buy a house not on a lake in cottage country.  Not on a lake means lower cost and easier to be close to town.  And a hospital.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22972
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2023, 10:02:00 AM »
There's no such thing as a 'forever' home.  Trying to plan for the infinite variations of the future is largely an exercise in futility.  Don't fall for fear of missing out.  If you're not planning on living in the home now and it's not what you need now, then I'd hold off on buying it.

patchyfacialhair

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1257
  • Age: 34
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2023, 11:30:59 AM »
Adding to the chorus. No such thing as a forever home.

Bought a "forever home" in 2017. That was before kid-1 was born. Turns out the school we liked best for the kids is 25 mins away. We'd much rather be closer to the school than in our current neighborhood (and we do indeed love our neighborhood).

My opinion is that you should live closest to the place that you'll be traveling to most often, with less consideration for floor plan/size. It's in line with MMM gospel.

And even though kid-3 is now in utero for us, we're already talking about places that we'd consider moving to after the kids are grown and gone. Or maybe we'll stay put. Who knows.

GilesMM

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1426
  • Location: PNW
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2023, 05:01:38 PM »
I'm another person who moved from the country to the city.

What has not been mentioned that living in farm country is not living in nature.  Lots of heavy farm equipment on the roads.  Do you know what they are spraying?  At my last house it took 3 years of my non-chemical gardening and lawn care before I had birds and bees come back.  My last dog and 2 cats all died of abdominal tumours, they had all lived their lives in farm country.  My dogs and cats living in a forested area did not die of tumours, they died of old age complications.

If you want nature, buy a house not on a lake in cottage country.  Not on a lake means lower cost and easier to be close to town.  And a hospital.


This is very good advice!

Freedomin5

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6424
  • Location: China
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2023, 04:41:05 PM »
There's no such thing as a 'forever' home.  Trying to plan for the infinite variations of the future is largely an exercise in futility.  Don't fall for fear of missing out.  If you're not planning on living in the home now and it's not what you need now, then I'd hold off on buying it.

I agree. If you had asked us 12 years ago, we wouldíve said our ideal forever home is a cozy, small, urban apartment on a subway line in Toronto close to all the amenities.  So we bought one and rented it out while we worked overseas. Will never actually live in this supposedly forever home.

12 years, 1 kid, 2 aging parents, and 1 medical condition later, our ideal forever home is a 3 bedroom townhouse close to a major hospital system and walking distance to valued amenities like grocery store, library, good schools, and biking trails, in a mid-size city. So we bought a house and are now renting it out while we continue to work overseas. But we actually plan on living in this one in a few years. Who knows if it will actually happen?

If you are looking to move into your ideal home within a year or so, then I would say it might make sense to buy now if prices and interest rates are good.

My opinion is that you should live closest to the place that you'll be traveling to most often, with less consideration for floor plan/size. It's in line with MMM gospel.

This is good advice. If youíre moving anyway, do so in a manner that optimizes your lifestyle and expenses.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2023, 04:45:36 PM by Freedomin5 »

lost and found

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2023, 12:25:36 AM »
Quote from: mspym
We live in a small rural town in walking distance of countryside, the beach, a supermarket and a library. We saw horses yesterday while also not having to own and look after horses. We donít have to get in the car to buy basic necessities.

This sounds fantastic. mspym would you care to share what town this is?  I'd of course understand if you aren't able to share.

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 16984
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2023, 06:31:37 AM »
Quote from: mspym
We live in a small rural town in walking distance of countryside, the beach, a supermarket and a library. We saw horses yesterday while also not having to own and look after horses. We donít have to get in the car to buy basic necessities.

This sounds fantastic. mspym would you care to share what town this is?  I'd of course understand if you aren't able to share.

I know you're not asking me, but I my rural home is in Newfoundland. There are countless lovely little towns all over the world where you don't need to own a pile of land in order to have access to incredible nature.

Where my house is there are miles and miles of publicly accessible hiking trails along some of the most beautiful paths in the entire world. They're publicly maintained and free to access.
https://rockcuttrails.ca/explore/

OP: We don't live there full time. Our primary residence is a small condo in Ontario because I'm in the process of getting a series of complex surgeries over several years. Even in Ontario though, we also love and have enormous access to nature and trails, especially  with the Gatineau Park about a 12 minute drive from our very urban doorstep.

There would be challenges with living in rural Newfoundland full time, although we're seriously considering it. But even as a second home, we bought our small 3 bedroom house out there that needed virtually no work beyond minor cosmetic stuff for only 86K. We're adding a 264 sqft extension for under 30K. I might even do another addition down the line because expert labour out there is so cheap and reliable.

We can essentially have whatever house we want out there and spend as much time out there as we please.

I don't own any land out there beyond a postage-stamp sized yard, but I have so much access to nature it's literally overwhelming. If I wanted to do extensive gardening, I would need a lawn, but not a huge one. Many of my neighbours have extensive gardens and chickens just on normal sized lawns, less than an acre. Owning land isn't really part of the culture out there, land is public.

I have no shortage of peace and quiet out there despite not owning much land. It's very common that it's so quiet that the only thing I can hear is the ocean.

FLBiker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1780
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Canada
    • Chop Wood Carry FIRE
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2023, 07:32:42 AM »
Quote from: mspym
We live in a small rural town in walking distance of countryside, the beach, a supermarket and a library. We saw horses yesterday while also not having to own and look after horses. We donít have to get in the car to buy basic necessities.

This sounds fantastic. mspym would you care to share what town this is?  I'd of course understand if you aren't able to share.

You also aren't asking me, but we live in a town in the Annapolis Valley in Nova Scotia and it's a lot like this.  We can easily walk to the supermarket, the library, the grocery and hardware store, also have loads of hiking and lakes.  The hospital is also walkable, but it would take ~30 minutes (I usually bike).  The coast is ~30 minutes drive.  All the big box stores are the next town over, about a 10 minute drive.  This is our first taste of non-suburb living (not to mention our first taste of Canadian living) and we love it -- we've been here 3.5 years.  And if you'd have told me when we bought our first house outside of Tampa, Florida in 2010 if I thought our "forever home" would be in semi-rural Nova Scotia, I'd have been very surprised.

Must_ache

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 306
  • Age: 52
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2023, 11:01:32 AM »
We bought our forever home in 2007. Spouse declared "I will die in this house."  Sold it in 2021 as spouse felt it was suboptimal.
Bought a really dreamy forever home in 2012. Sold it in 2022 as spouse was not happy with layout and it had more than tripled in value which bothered me.  Friends wept at loss.
Bought current forever retirement home in 2020.  Meets all spousal requirements and then some.  Spouse doesn't like the general area/region and is now house shopping another metro area.

You need to rent

mspym

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9654
  • Location: Aotearoa
Re: Purchase 'forever home' in advance? General advice and strategy request..
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2023, 11:21:46 AM »
Quote from: mspym
We live in a small rural town in walking distance of countryside, the beach, a supermarket and a library. We saw horses yesterday while also not having to own and look after horses. We donít have to get in the car to buy basic necessities.

This sounds fantastic. mspym would you care to share what town this is?  I'd of course understand if you aren't able to share.
Check your messages 📩

Itís funny because I knew I loved the beaches here but I hadnít realised how much I also appreciated the general farmland as well. I had no idea how silly and playful cows can be or how much I would enjoy seeing pukeko poking around in fields. With the bonus that I donít have to look after acres and acres of land.