Author Topic: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?  (Read 21691 times)

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2017, 01:21:22 PM »
Today, I e-mailed 6 nearby honda dealerships for their lowest all-in cost lease quote for a new Honda fit. 

this took <10 mins and is the beginning of the process. My plan is to establish this as the basis of comparison for all potential replacements of das facenpunchenmobil.

I realize there are cheaper means of acquiring basic transportation. I will admit to not wanting to drive an absolute beater w/ no collision ins and without 5-10 years of safety advancements;

DW's '07 highlander seems perfectly safe / reliable (9.3/10 safety rating), but when I go down into the 10 yr old econobox range for my potential replacement vehicles, I'm a little leery, even when my commute is average mph of like 30. And then when i go newer, there's only like a $5K difference between used and brand spanking new.

If the choice is a brand new fit @ $16K versus an out of warranty 5 year old Corolla w/50K at $9K versus a 1997 corrola at $4K, it's hard for me to not pick new and no worries.

we'll see what they come back with and go from there.

Perhaps this is a facepunch-worthy way to start and not quite badass, but for a guy who got a loaded g35 for his 16th birthday, it's a step.

So far 1 has gotten back to me with

2017 Fit
$2,400 DP ($66 /month)
$129 / month
36 months
All-in of $195 / month.

I figure that's about what the bimmer is depreciating at from here and i completely mitigate repairs risk and laura33 won't call it a douchemobile!.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 01:23:01 PM by mrspendy »

lhamo

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2017, 01:41:42 PM »
That's 7k of payments down the drain for a car you have to give back at the end.

Why not just get something like this -- drive it for 3 years and put no more mileage on it than the lease limits and you could probably sell it for 5k and trade up:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/d/2011-honda-fit-hatchback/6328380823.html
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MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2017, 01:54:34 PM »
well that car has a salvage title. in my area the equivalent ($8K) gets you a 2009 with 70K miles, which is probably totally fine, but just saying that the car you posted has a salvage title discount.

But I'm not going to argue with you that leasing is a cheap way of owning a car (because it isn't).

 it may be a reasonable semi-moustachian alternative for my current life situation though. $4K / yr (75 parking, 70 insurance, $200 of depreciation) total of car costs is about what it'd be if I uberpooled to/from work every day. going the "beater" (8 yr old fit isn't a beater, but you get my point) route may reduce that $200 to say $80/ month ($1000 a yr). At this time, the incremental $120 / month isn't worth it to me. (I'd rather eat out 1 less time / month). the bimmer has depreciated by about $480 / month ($36->$10K) over its ownership (though $148/month for me because of parental teat sucking since they paid for 1/2), so locking something in at $200 (hopefully less) has its appeal.

The real savings would come from moving next to my work and getting rid of a car completely but that's not happening for now. Neither DW nor I want to live near either place she works for crime/quality of life reasons (also she works two places that are 30 mins apart). Her place of work is "safer than 17% of cities" to put a little objective stats to it. it's objectively dicey. 

« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 03:20:26 PM by mrspendy »

Tuskalusa

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2017, 04:58:06 PM »
I think the idea of buying a used Honda Fit with low miles beats out leasing. It might cost more that that particular ad, but you're still going to come out ahead over leasing. You don't have to get a beater. You can get a later model Decent car and still come out ahead.

Unless you can expense or write off those lease payments, I don't see how leasing makes much sense.

There are a zillion reasonably priced used cars that would be more cost effective than the BMW.

Psychstache

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2017, 06:18:22 PM »
As a counterexample to your car experience:
When I was 16 I got a 6 year old Corolla with 55k miles on it. Had it for 5 years and other than 2 tires and normal maintainence it was perfect (until it got totaled). I got a 3 year old Corolla with 70k miles on it 7.5 years ago. It's got 118k now and other than routine maintenance and 4 new tires, it had been trouble free and I have no plans to get rid of it any time soon.

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happy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #55 on: October 01, 2017, 08:48:36 PM »
Buying a second hand car is not as scary as it sounds. Its really a mind game. Don't buy a complete beater, but there are lots of good second hand cars to be had at a big discount to new. I bought my first new car prior to finding MMM and drinking the cool-aid, and went back to a 4 year old used vehicle after the new car got written off. I've had no problems: it cost me the insurance payout.
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Laura33

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2017, 08:41:51 AM »
well that car has a salvage title. in my area the equivalent ($8K) gets you a 2009 with 70K miles, which is probably totally fine, but just saying that the car you posted has a salvage title discount.

But I'm not going to argue with you that leasing is a cheap way of owning a car (because it isn't).

 it may be a reasonable semi-moustachian alternative for my current life situation though. $4K / yr (75 parking, 70 insurance, $200 of depreciation) total of car costs is about what it'd be if I uberpooled to/from work every day. going the "beater" (8 yr old fit isn't a beater, but you get my point) route may reduce that $200 to say $80/ month ($1000 a yr). At this time, the incremental $120 / month isn't worth it to me. (I'd rather eat out 1 less time / month). the bimmer has depreciated by about $480 / month ($36->$10K) over its ownership (though $148/month for me because of parental teat sucking since they paid for 1/2), so locking something in at $200 (hopefully less) has its appeal.

The real savings would come from moving next to my work and getting rid of a car completely but that's not happening for now. Neither DW nor I want to live near either place she works for crime/quality of life reasons (also she works two places that are 30 mins apart). Her place of work is "safer than 17% of cities" to put a little objective stats to it. it's objectively dicey.

1.  That $129/mo. would more than double what you had left over to save last month.  50%+ improvement isn't "worth it"?

2.  You'd rather eat out one less time per month.  Except you haven't done that and you won't do that, because as you yourself have identified, this is your social hour. 

3.  You do not yet know what you actually can afford, because every month you are still "surprised" by new expenses -- every month, you start out with grand plans; and every month, the money is gone by the end of it because of something else you didn't anticipate.  In the real world, every dollar matters when your outflow equals your income. 

4.  Sure, you can rationalize the lease as cheaper than your current depreciation loss on the Beemer, but that won't improve your cash flow.  In the past few months, you have gone from spending @$300 more than you make every month to having $250 left last month.  You now want to commit to additional debt that will suck up more than half of your leftover cash (assuming that the +$250 is a "real" change and not just a monthly blip).  This is two steps forward, one step back.   

4.a.  You are not even making this trade-off for an asset.  You are forfeiting half of the leftover cash you worked for months to find, just for the "experience" of borrowing someone else's car for a few years.   

4.b.  You live/drive in a city.  The spanky new car is going to get dinged, and you will pay more to cover the damage when you turn it in.

5.  The proper comparison is also not to how much Ubering to work would cost.  It is to how much biking would cost.  Yes, yes, your pretty trail is closed.  But you still have streets.  You can do it, even if you don't want to.  The baseline cost of what you actually need is $0.

6.  Don't kid yourself.  You like the idea of a lease because then you won't be stuck with a cheap car after the lease ends.  By then, your DW will be out of school and into her well-paid career, and you can upgrade again to a fancy car.  Right?  Tell me that's not what was running through your mind.  I would put money on that.

This is not a wise fiscal decision.  This is not semi-mustachian.  This is your spendypants bad angel trying everything it can to avoid doing what you know you need to do, while easing your conscience because it is "only" a Fit, which is of course beneath your awesome deserved place in the world.

I was sympathetic on the prior post; when you feel like you are trying so hard, you do all this cooking and shopping and planning, and then you find you didn't really save much, because more eating at home = higher groceries, and you still had lots of fancy dinners out with friends, etc. etc. etc.  I was going to say something like, hey, this is a marathon, not a sprint, you're building better habits, you've identified a weakness so now you can figure out how to address it, etc.

But what you've been telling us is how your DW loves the apartment, how she loves to eat out, how she loves to get her hair and nails done, and all that, and how you're working hard to save where you can by taking over more shopping and planning and cooking and all of that.  But now comes the first decision that you can make, truly 100% on your own, and you are rationalizing a fucking brand-new car.  That you're not even going to own. 

FFS.   Look hard at yourself.  Think about how much you are willing to commit to changing the way you think and act, or if you just want to find a way to stand pat for a few years until your DW's fabulous new salary solves all your problems for you.*

You are smarter than this.  You are better than this.  You know you don't need a car at all.  So if you are going to get one, suck it up and get a fucking beater.

*Please read irony font here.  You have already demonstrated that you know higher income just gets sucked up by more expensive "needs" if you don't change your mindset.
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Imustacheyouaquestion

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #57 on: October 02, 2017, 09:57:59 AM »
Why do you need a car? You're living in a high rent location because it's convenient to everything, and then still carrying the costs of living like you're not conveniently located.

You said before that you could bike to work but it wouldn't save much money because of parking/insurance/etc. The solution is to become a 1-car family. Your wife can keep commuting in the Highlander (depending on what kind of gas mileage she gets, you might want to sell this car and trade for a something like a 2007 Fit) and you both share the car for weekend trips, grocery shopping, etc.

Maybe the weather is shit and you end up needing an UberPool or taking public transit 10% of the time. This would still massively cut your commuting costs.

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2017, 01:06:40 PM »
after sleeping on it and with the facepunches here, i decided that the new fit idea is the "sweetgreen" of transportation options (the number 1 consumer of our fast casual dollars).
it feels good and healthy overall, it doesn't seem that expensive and then when you look back for the year you find you've spent $500 (1-1.2x a month of groceries) on 20 meals.

i'm not going to bike on the street my employer is on. the tail risk of death and severe injury is not one that i wish to underwrite. You only get 1 body and brain. love you guys, but it's not happening.

carpooling tuesday - thursday with DW (when her work is not out of the way) and some uberpool on mondays and fridays is the better option;  this would be about $2,000 / year (roughly what parking and insurance costs) assuming $20 / day on the 40% of 250 workdays that I couldn't hitch a ride; there'd be some slippage given that sometimes i work past 7 or 8 (after DW comes home) a bit and there'd be some gains on the days i'm going to airport (3/ past 10 workdays my transpo has been covered by travel reimbursement). so selling the car for $10K would pay for 5 years of this.

uberpool was a bit slow in my trial period, but i could just get up a little earlier. 

walking and or public transit would take 40 mins to go 2 miles (time is valuable; i can iron my clothes once a week to save $100/month, but 80 minutes of commute time a day is too much). walking would be safer than biking given the sidewalk.

the reason my time horizon was 3 years is because we each have 2-3 more years in our respective locations of work, so there's a strong chance we change cities / jobs. I'm up or out in 2 years (get gently sent elsewhere or get big promotion) and DW is done with school in 2 years (but will then only make $25k as an intern), her comp doesn't ramp for 3-5 more years. so it wasn't really "to upgrade" as much as it was to solve a 2-3 year problem of getting to work. 

you all are helpful in that you approach things with a "zero-based" budgeting mindset, which is basically "what's the lowest cost most efficient way to do this", and I'm still working on this.

leasing does appeal to me because in general, i don't like to own or maintain things.


« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 01:14:06 PM by mrspendy »

jezebel

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2017, 01:26:04 PM »
walking and or public transit would take 40 mins to go 2 miles (time is valuable; i can iron my clothes once a week to save $100/month, but 80 minutes of commute time a day is too much). walking would be safer than biking given the sidewalk.

It would take you 40 minutes to walk 2 miles?  Also, do you exercise at all?  Time is valuable and walking back and forth to work at 4 miles per day is the best use of your time because it kills two birds with one stone.   I've got my 2-mile walking commute down to about 30 minutes each way.  I would love to be able to do it more often, but I have a daycare drop off.

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2017, 01:53:04 PM »
It's 2.4 miles. I ran a half marathon last year and am in "decent" shape, but fitness has suffered in new job (don't really work out during the week).
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 02:00:28 PM by mrspendy »

Laura33

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2017, 02:06:13 PM »
First, good second-thoughts and good insight.

Second, ditto Jezebel.  At least try the walk for a month -- commit to it, give it a fair shot.  You might be surprised to find it gives you a chance to get your head in the game in the morning, and to decompress before you get home at night (at least that was my experience).  The exercise is a decent mood regulator.

Finally, don't think of it as a 40-minute time suck.  It's really 40 minutes minus whatever Uber would take you -- and depending on how bad traffic is and whether your times mesh with the Uberpool, it might not actually end up costing you more than a few minutes each way.  Especially once you get those walking muscles in shape and get that time down to 30 mins.  ;-)
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Nately

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2017, 02:10:16 PM »
You started this thread a few months ago saying that you really want to be financially independent and employed only to yourself as your own money manager. You seem to track your expenses to the dollar (something I have never bothered to do). But you don't make any real changes; you just write endlessly about all the reasons why you can not.

Yours is a complex, and admittedly fascinating, scenario. You're saving enough by most people's standards. You have family money, and you'll have more of that before you really need it. You don't have to make any changes if you don't want to. If your bonus pays out only every other year at only 50% funding, that will still be enough to give a nice boost to your investments, assuming you invest it. You know all this, and whenever someone here pushes you, which is presumably what you've invited them to do, you cite some combination of these facts as a form of defense, both against the criticism and to assure yourself.

On the other hand, something keeps bringing you back here. I've not paid extensive attention to this forum, but I've never seen a case study in which the presenter is so meticulous with the data, the problem is so clear, the answers are so obvious, yet nothing ever changes! Why do you keep coming back to post updates of what is essentially the exact same situation you outlined in July?

This isn't really about fast-casual restaurants or Honda Fits. You want something different in your life. I understand where you're coming from. You're 28, almost 30. You're doing great; then again, the expectation that you were raised with was that you were truly exceptional. And you're not sure if you're really there, or if you're ever going to be there. You're ambivalent about the work and lifestyle treadmill before you. You see the two kids, the leased Q7, and the private school. That lifestyle, because it will come with other accoutrements, will require every bit of the $600k that your boss is making, assuming you get his job in a few years. Your wife's income, and probably even some of yours, will go straight to childcare.  And you can continue this thread for the next 20 years, with monthly updates showing that you're spending what you're making, with some withholdings to traditional retirement savings. It will look exactly the same as it does now, just add an extra digit.

Part of you doesn't want to go down that road, as you see it as 30 or 40 more years of futilely treading water. Then again, part of you does. Maybe your new wife expects that. I also think your parents expect that, and you seem a little more concerned about their approval than your typical 28-year-old would be. They also seem quite controlling - the anecdote about the BMW was telling.

You also have certain material expectations for yourself that you're not quite ready to shed. You were the 16-year-old with the brand new Infiniti. You were the Wall Streeter. You're asking yourself WTF you're doing on this board with a bunch of people who talk about saving seven cents by soaking beans overnight (believe me, I ask myself the same question sometimes).

I think you just have to figure out where your priorities and your values lie. It's always an ongoing question, as I'm almost 10 years older than you, and I'm still working on it. It's not going to be answered overnight. But in the meantime, I think you could do a little bit better setting yourself up to have more options, and you could do this pretty painlessly. That's what all the prior suggestions that others have made have been pushing you toward.

You're doing fine, but you're not achieving the objective of financial independence that you laid out at the beginning of this thread. I think you should decide if you were serious about that or not. It's OK if you're not. But the next 10 years are going to pass faster than you can possibly imagine. And 10 years from now, when you do have the lease payments on a Q7, when you have two kids in private school, when you have a big 30-year mortgage on a big house, when you have a nanny who expects to be paid, when your family is accustomed to vacationing a certain way, when the kids are in expensive activities like horseback riding, and a thousand other "whens" we could come up with, it will be too late. You won't get off at that point. You may think that you and your wife won't end up like this, that you'll be able to avoid those temptations. But you can't even sell an old car, or move from your overpriced apartment. Grad school might go away, but there will always be some excuse, especially with kids. You'll both be very quick to say that you deserve the house, or the Q7 does have the highest safety ratings. This isn't to be mean, it's just to point out that without some drastic shift in your mentality, nothing is going to change, as neither of you has much willpower for it. You're 20-something newlyweds with no kids. It doesn't get any easier than this.

If you want to give yourself options and freedom, you have to change now.

jezebel

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2017, 02:24:43 PM »
It's 2.4 miles. I ran a half marathon last year and am in "decent" shape, but fitness has suffered in new job (don't really work out during the week).

Great, there you go, fitness/commute solved.  It's nice when the answers are this simple.  You'll have the walk down to 30 minutes in no time.

SimpleCycle

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2017, 03:18:33 PM »
Wait, weren't you biking to work?  What happened to that?  2.4 miles is the perfect bike commute.  I have about the same commute (and two kids to pick up from daycare) and we're a one car family and it's not even on my radar to drive to work.  Like "it would barely save me any time" not on my radar, not "I am so mustachian I can't even imagine" not on my radar.  I'm guessing based on our car costs and your stated parking/insurance costs you're looking at saving about $3300 by getting rid of the car.  Then bike 9 months of the year and Uberpool during the winter and you've cut your commuting costs to $100ish in bike maintenance and $900 in Uberpool (20 work days/month * 3 months * .75 since it's pre tax).


MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2017, 03:28:39 PM »
I was biking.

Trail was closed for  construction for 5+ years. I am unwilling to bike on the street on which my work is (the trail bypassed that street). Having almost plowed into some bikers myself despite being a relatively capable and alert driver, I believe my lack of willingness to bike this particular street is rational from a not getting killed standpoint and don't wish to argue that point.

I could walk or run given there is a sidewalk and you all are right to call me out for that

I've seen some bikers racing down said sidewalk to avoid the killzone of the street, so there's that but I think they'd be dodge-able and the tail risk of being hit by a bike is certainly lower downside than that of a car (technically one could get hit by a car on the sidewalk, but if that happens I guess I just had it coming).

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2017, 03:36:24 PM »
You started this thread a few months ago saying that you really want to be financially independent and employed only to yourself as your own money manager. You seem to track your expenses to the dollar (something I have never bothered to do). But you don't make any real changes; you just write endlessly about all the reasons why you can not.

Yours is a complex, and admittedly fascinating, scenario. You're saving enough by most people's standards. You have family money, and you'll have more of that before you really need it. You don't have to make any changes if you don't want to. If your bonus pays out only every other year at only 50% funding, that will still be enough to give a nice boost to your investments, assuming you invest it. You know all this, and whenever someone here pushes you, which is presumably what you've invited them to do, you cite some combination of these facts as a form of defense, both against the criticism and to assure yourself.

On the other hand, something keeps bringing you back here. I've not paid extensive attention to this forum, but I've never seen a case study in which the presenter is so meticulous with the data, the problem is so clear, the answers are so obvious, yet nothing ever changes! Why do you keep coming back to post updates of what is essentially the exact same situation you outlined in July?

This isn't really about fast-casual restaurants or Honda Fits. You want something different in your life. I understand where you're coming from. You're 28, almost 30. You're doing great; then again, the expectation that you were raised with was that you were truly exceptional. And you're not sure if you're really there, or if you're ever going to be there. You're ambivalent about the work and lifestyle treadmill before you. You see the two kids, the leased Q7, and the private school. That lifestyle, because it will come with other accoutrements, will require every bit of the $600k that your boss is making, assuming you get his job in a few years. Your wife's income, and probably even some of yours, will go straight to childcare.  And you can continue this thread for the next 20 years, with monthly updates showing that you're spending what you're making, with some withholdings to traditional retirement savings. It will look exactly the same as it does now, just add an extra digit.

Part of you doesn't want to go down that road, as you see it as 30 or 40 more years of futilely treading water. Then again, part of you does. Maybe your new wife expects that. I also think your parents expect that, and you seem a little more concerned about their approval than your typical 28-year-old would be. They also seem quite controlling - the anecdote about the BMW was telling.

You also have certain material expectations for yourself that you're not quite ready to shed. You were the 16-year-old with the brand new Infiniti. You were the Wall Streeter. You're asking yourself WTF you're doing on this board with a bunch of people who talk about saving seven cents by soaking beans overnight (believe me, I ask myself the same question sometimes).

I think you just have to figure out where your priorities and your values lie. It's always an ongoing question, as I'm almost 10 years older than you, and I'm still working on it. It's not going to be answered overnight. But in the meantime, I think you could do a little bit better setting yourself up to have more options, and you could do this pretty painlessly. That's what all the prior suggestions that others have made have been pushing you toward.

You're doing fine, but you're not achieving the objective of financial independence that you laid out at the beginning of this thread. I think you should decide if you were serious about that or not. It's OK if you're not. But the next 10 years are going to pass faster than you can possibly imagine. And 10 years from now, when you do have the lease payments on a Q7, when you have two kids in private school, when you have a big 30-year mortgage on a big house, when you have a nanny who expects to be paid, when your family is accustomed to vacationing a certain way, when the kids are in expensive activities like horseback riding, and a thousand other "whens" we could come up with, it will be too late. You won't get off at that point. You may think that you and your wife won't end up like this, that you'll be able to avoid those temptations. But you can't even sell an old car, or move from your overpriced apartment. Grad school might go away, but there will always be some excuse, especially with kids. You'll both be very quick to say that you deserve the house, or the Q7 does have the highest safety ratings. This isn't to be mean, it's just to point out that without some drastic shift in your mentality, nothing is going to change, as neither of you has much willpower for it. You're 20-something newlyweds with no kids. It doesn't get any easier than this.

If you want to give yourself options and freedom, you have to change now.

I'm dissatisfied with the current path and have spent the past 10+ years (in terms of friendships made, choices taken, etc,) building that path; how do you not buy dinner for your best friend who has hosted you at her vacation homes multiple times and travelled to come see you (answer: you have a real conversation with your friend and say "I would love to buy you dinner as an appreciation of your visit, but am trying to change our lifestyle or you prepare a beautiful spread at home...what mrspendy did: reach for the check and had two bourbons at said dinner)

It feels like I've been writing on here for a very short time and that progress is being made, but I can see how outside looking in that is not the case and I've been a member of this board and read MMM blogs a couple years ago when someone on an investment board said I was nuts for thinking I'd need $6-$10mm to retire and pointed me to MMM; it's been pretty slow.

We still are not spending less than we take home on a normalized full year basis (since my paycheck is $0 for the first two months or so of the year to fill up the workplace tax advantaged) and we we had the convo about cutting restaurant expenditures pre-September which was really bad from a restaurant spending perspective. I'm on here because you all make me feel shitty about that and no one else in my life does.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 03:38:54 PM by mrspendy »

Nately

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #67 on: October 02, 2017, 03:54:23 PM »
lol, well I'll keep following to see what happens.

For the record, I'm planning on $6 to $10 million to retire, and likely closer to the 10 than the 6, and letting it grow from there.

Laura33

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2017, 04:43:27 PM »
I'm on here because you all make me feel shitty about that and no one else in my life does.

You're welcome.  ;-)

[Exactly why I am here too, btw]
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Novik

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #69 on: October 03, 2017, 09:21:28 AM »
I could walk or run given there is a sidewalk and you all are right to call me out for that

Sell your car, save all that money. When you have to pay the Uberpool every day it will hurt more than the passive/hidden costs. That will help motivate you to use your alternative options, of which you have many!  Carpool with your wife when possible (2-3 days), walk (1-2 days) and if you uberpool the rest, that's fine. Who knows, maybe you can bike if you're ever going in at odd times with low traffic, or get a kick scooter!

I've been biking to work this summer, and by that I mean 1-2 times a week, in good weather, if I didn't have a commitment after work, I would bike/bus to work, and bike home. It's a start, and I'll be ready for more next season!

Don't let the perfect ("my awesome bike trail") be the enemy of the good!
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formerlydivorcedmom

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #70 on: October 03, 2017, 02:59:47 PM »
If other people are biking on the sidewalk, why don't you?
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Mariposa

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #71 on: October 03, 2017, 09:32:47 PM »
If other people are biking on the sidewalk, why don't you?

Exactly. I commute 3 miles, which involves riding my bike 2.5 miles and then taking 2 buses for the last 0.5. This takes me 40-60 minutes, depending on how I hit the buses. Driving would take me 20 minutes door-to-door. The reason I continue to bike is what everyone else said: it's often the best part of my day. Riding my bike to work this morning in the golden light, seeing the trees start to change color, feeling the crisp air on my face brought me much joy.

If it bothers you to ride your bike on a sidewalk, you can walk your bike for that stretch. Or just walk your bike past pedestrians whenever you see any.

For such a short commute, I find that I can ride in almost any condition with ~$200 investment in good bike lights and rain gear. In the last year, the only exception was maybe snowstorm, which happened on 2 days here. I could ride in the rain, in the dark, when it got down to the teens, without buying any other special gear. I just put on a few wool sweaters under my puffer and wore two pairs of gloves for the cold. Overheating isn't an issue for such a short distance.

I also ride a 12-year-old beater bike that runs like a dream. For my short commute, I've found that the biggest factor in how well the bike "runs" is my own physical condition.

former player

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2017, 03:34:46 PM »
Just to say, a salvage title car is not always a bad idea, as long as the category of write off was the lowest and the repairs were done properly.  I have a salvage title car which was nearly 3 years old with only 10,000 miles and a Category D (lowest end) front shunt into a lamppost which damaged a number of panels but left the frame and engine unharmed.  I saw the car before the repair, the repair was done by a local repair person first recommended to me 14 years ago, and I'll keep the car until it dies so don't care about resale.  I've had a completely trouble free 5 years with it so far.  A real bargain.

You say you want to spend less and then get sniffy about the ways in which to do it.  Entitled, much?
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MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2017, 04:12:16 PM »
27 minutes. it takes 27 minutes to jog/walk the ~2.5 miles to get my entitled out of shape ass home. and 1 pleasant ride with DW to get to work.

no updates hogging the top of the case study section until i sell car.

in other annoying (but hilarious in the grand scheme of things) news, I destroyed about ~$300 of dress shirts / khakis leaving some pens in my pocket in the washer.  i am woefully incompetent wannabe mustachian.

EDIT: mapmyrun tells me the precise distance was 2.3

EDIT 2: my autotrader instant cash offer is $7,100...wow...carmax / craigslist can hopefully get me better, but that comes out to $600 / month of depreciation. any non-mustachians out there want a 2010 bmw 528? pristine interior, mostly highway miles! i think it's influenced by the hit and run that i got into at extremely low speed.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 05:24:38 PM by mrspendy »

civil4life

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2017, 05:40:00 PM »
One other thought is can you ride your bike a block over on a less dangerous street?

The shirt thing stinks!  Try working your frugal muscles by looking for gently used replacements.
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Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #75 on: October 06, 2017, 01:22:25 AM »
Hairspray will sometimes get ink out. Also WD40 or Swarfega. Only use if the shirts are clearly ruined otherwise.

sea_saw

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2017, 03:23:43 AM »
Hey mrspendy! Just as a perspective check, I walk 40 minutes to work and 40 minutes back every day. 3 miles, mostly flat. Come rain come shine :)

For a while I amused myself trying to get the time down, jogging portions of it if necessary. But in the end I find it most satisfying to think of my walk as a combination of exercise, relaxation/leisure, and learning or introspection, so I set my pace to roughly 'purposeful walk' rather than 'as fast as possible'. I also do errands on the way.

My tip - find a podcast series you enjoy and only listen to it on your new commute. You can find all sorts of podcasts with deep deep archives, so even if you get through an episode a day it will take months to work through them if you like them. If you find yourself taking a longer route because you want to keep listening, you know you've chosen well.

I also recently installed an app called 'jobspotter'. It pays you for taking photographs of 'help wanted' signs in local businesses that might not have jobs posted online - corner shops, restaurants needing wait staff, barbers, tailors etc. I've earned £30 in my first couple of days which is fun, but what's even better is that it's incentivised me to vary my route to check out new streets, and keep my eyes peeled as I walk around, getting to know my local area as well as the inside of my head/phone.

Other people I know collect photographs of different types of plants and flowers, to similar effect.

I'd be really interested to hear more about walking as a regular feature works out for you!

patchyfacialhair

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #77 on: October 09, 2017, 11:55:27 AM »
Wife and I were married almost 2 years ago and now have a little one. Believe me when I say this: get ahold of the lifestyle inflation BEFORE having kids. It makes it that much harder to change. Our mistake is that we bought an easily affordable house based on both of our incomes. See where this is going? Now that the kid is here, it's going to be difficult for one of us to stay home with her. Horrible planning on our part.

Your situation is different, but you can easily figure out where to go from here. My advice: live the life you want to live, now. Sell the dumb car (I sold my dream car after a couple years of ownership) and get a beater. After all, all cars are used cars once you drive them.

Anyways, I'm done rambling, and wish you the best.
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Mariposa

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #78 on: October 09, 2017, 01:09:47 PM »
27 minutes. it takes 27 minutes to jog/walk the ~2.5 miles to get my entitled out of shape ass home. and 1 pleasant ride with DW to get to work.

no updates hogging the top of the case study section until i sell car.

in other annoying (but hilarious in the grand scheme of things) news, I destroyed about ~$300 of dress shirts / khakis leaving some pens in my pocket in the washer.  i am woefully incompetent wannabe mustachian.

Good on you for walking! It's such a short distance, you can likely do it under any condition.

+1 to attempt getting the stains out. If lost cause, +1 to gently used. Or try going without. Or minimal replacement (1 khaki + 2 shirts).

Edit to add: the most effort-free way for me to buy gently used is to search for the exact item and size on ebay.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 01:43:57 PM by Mariposa »

Apple_Tango

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #79 on: October 18, 2017, 12:11:25 PM »
My thoughts when reading your case study is that Rent is your biggest problem. You know that, but it's pretty much a fixed cost so you'll have to tighten up in other ways.

So we come to the car, and the food. Also you know this, it has been said over and over. Here are my ideas: sell the car for the $7000 ish and keep doing the combo  riding with your wife, walking, and biking the 2 miles to work. You can get off and walk the bike on the sidewalk in sketchy road situations. It sounds like you're coming around to these ideas.

The food- something that i didn't see anyone else mention is that restaurant portions are HUGE. One way to cut your restaurant budget in half is to make it a habit to eat half, and take the other half home for left over dinner And have it later in the week. It's simple but people don't think about it.
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Lucky Girl

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2017, 02:04:16 PM »
Your case study is fascinating.  For a reality check on where you might be in 20 years, look at the case study by jimbooker.  50 something, $1.3M house, spendy lifestyle and no chance to FIRE even though he has some savings in the bank.  The way your parents set you up here is another interesting piece of this puzzle.  Obviously, they tried to give you everything.  A new g35 for your 16th Birthday!  What they don't realize is that spoiling you has basically made you miserable.  Keep this in mind when you have kids.  It is very hard to resist giving your kids all the latest and greatest.  A great book to check out is The Opposite of Spoiled by Ron Lieber.  It's a great way of looking at money and kids.

One thing that will be critical is for you and DW to get on the same page before you have kids.  If your wife is truly expecting you to live the Q7/private school/manicures every month and new 1k handbag whenever she wants it, you are headed for a train wreck.  Don't bring kids into that.

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2017, 03:59:18 PM »
$6,312 spending for October, $158 smackeroos less than September. (about $420 of positive cash flow, but still above run-rate take-home which is lower given filled up retirement and HSA early in the year)

Progress on restaurants offset by purchase of November & December's Holiday Travel Plane Tickets. $1,300 after using points for one leg, despite a suboptimal conversion rate; we'll probably get reimbursed by my rents for $600-$800 of that since they usually volunteer to pay for the leg of the trip to see them, but I don't want to build their largesse into the budget. I couldn't bring myself to dip into the points to a greater extent given how bad the conversions were. We failed to plan ahead better and book our travel earlier; the night we bought them was a bit depressing. 

Goal for November is to be below $5,000 (basically repeat/improve October's less crazy restaurant spending, but without the plane tickets). This would be a 53% drop from 2017's average non-rent spending. Not a complete transformation by any means (and I recognize it's the average of all the months that counts), but would represent actual progress.

After 4 calls with my credit union they found my car title and sent it to me, came in the mail late last week.

I'm not going to list out all the details of the small victories and failures. Suffice to say, I think we're doing better on food (but loads of improvement left to go), better on my dry cleaning, am getting more used to car free commuting (but still need to sell the damn thing) and there's still ample fat in things like personal care.

Lucky, thanks for the book recco. I think I have been very blessed to have great parents who are incredibly loving and supportive. They are also a bit controlling and frankly have lost a lot of perspective over the years as they've had great financial success through their hard work. I would definitely not say they've made me miserable. I'm stressed out by work demands (isn't everyone?) but otherwise live a very nice life. My wife grew up much more middle class than I and doesn't expect a Q7, went to public school and things they are A okay. I'm a snob and have never and want to be able to pay for whatever is best in whatever location we are in. She does like to get a $25 manicure but has never bought a handbag (or a $1000 one!) for herself in the 6 years I've known her. I don't think we are headed for any kind of trainwreck. She may think we're saving enough and want to stay in our apartment, but that disagreement does not a trainwreck make. Our spending is a group effort. She got a $100 massage this month with a friend who's getting divorced and went out to eat with her after that. I don't have credibility to object (particularly under the sad circumstances), because in a pinch before a meeting and with 2 months of shag on my head, I went to my usual place and got a $50 haircut. I am not being the change...other than cooking and walking/carpooling to/from work. I've been cooking up a storm lately.

EDIT: more walking and cooking, a little less drinking, has helped shed 3-5 unnecessary pounds, so that's cool.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 06:06:51 PM by mrspendy »

Gone_fishing

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #82 on: November 15, 2017, 02:26:09 PM »
You restaurants category has gotten way better, good job! This category is hard because there are so many variables and also so many opportunities in the day to spend on restaurants compared with other categories of spending.

I would suggest that to make this expense more steady, you and your wife decide on a monthly amount to spend on restaurants, then pull it out in CASH for each month and put it into an envelope. Use only the money in the envelope for restaurants.  When you run out for the month, YOURE DONE.  You wonít starve, I promise.  You can split the cash between the two of you if you want to be fair.  You will train yourselves to be pickier about what restaurant experiences you are willing to spend on.  I think if you are eating daily at work for a good deal on a meal card, some of that cost should be deducted from groceries too.

freya

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2017, 09:49:40 AM »
As someone living in an HCOL city with a very demanding job, I can definitely relate to this case study.

Sounds like you're making a bit of progress, but my impression is the overall picture for you is bleak.  Expenses increase faster than wages, both naturally as you get older and assume more responsibilities, and because the CPI 1-2% figures are a joke.  You are very close to living paycheck to paycheck now.  It's a good thing you're maxing retirement savings, but you probably won't be able to maintain that for long.  You have a great nest egg, but spending it down to support your current lifestyle is almost inevitable.

You don't need to do anything drastic, it's a matter of optimizing the big things and developing some new habits.

Since you rent and are contemplating downsizing, why limit it to your current building?  Why not pick a spot that makes it easier to arrange a car-free commute for one of you?  The best thing I ever did was buy an apartment that's a 20 minute walk to work, and 5 minutes to a bus that takes me to visit my mother in the suburbs.  No more public transit monthly passes, which have been zooming up in price every year.  By the way, consider the actual time spent driving to work.  You have to clear snow and dirt off the windshield, keep the car filled with gas and tires inflated, get the oil changed regularly, and find a parking space when you get to your destination then walk to the front door.  Walking is overhead-free, except for getting your shoes resoled occasionally.  Also if your commute is flat, you could get yourself a scooter and likely easily match your driving commute time.

As far as lunches/meals out, that's just a matter of working out a bagged-lunch system.  I throw leftovers into a container when I'm making dinner, which takes about 5 seconds.  Next morning it's grab and go.   If I don't have leftovers I cut up fruit and vegetables, cheese, and hard salami and throw them in a baggie.  That admittedly takes longer, i.e. all of about 3 minutes.  You can still go out to lunch if you want to, but no longer out of necessity and certainly not every day.

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #84 on: November 30, 2017, 07:06:25 AM »
$5,369 for November, +$1,400 of positive cash flow excluding some ridiculous gift money / holiday travel re-reimbursements we received.

Not quite the $5,000 goal. Non Rent Spending of $2,167 vs ~$3,500 in the first few months of tracking/effort.

Averaging out the past few months (to include things like Holiday travel, insurance, etc), we're spending about 100% of normalized take-home. We've cut restaurant spending dramatically. This month's $383 includes $90 for my work lunches, $23 for a networking thing, and $52 of treating the in laws, not that those aren't actual expenses because they are, but just saying that we've been exercising our cooking muscles a lot.I'm trying to optimize grocery spend, which I realize is quite high given that it doesn't include my lunch.

There's still plenty of non-rent fat to cut from a mustachian point of view, but the real savings will come with a re-location; we're both kind of reaching a plateau in terms of things we want to cut from a non-rent point of view.

Lots of points accrued this month! $11K of work travel = ~80K of airline miles and 33K chase points.

And no, I haven't sold the car...I am a weak man!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 07:11:05 AM by mrspendy »

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2018, 09:24:04 AM »
December: $5,926 including purchase of gifts, $5,050 w/o gifts.

~$700 of positive cash flow from work earnings (excluding gifts received and including cost of gifts given). Received more in cash / gifts than expended but don't want to build that into the revenue number. Will be updating quarterly, since it's a matter of implementation from here and this is getting quite boring w/o radical action taken by yours truly.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 09:26:43 AM by mrspendy »

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #86 on: January 04, 2018, 01:16:18 PM »
Make it not boring by selling the BMW this week.

freya

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #87 on: January 05, 2018, 07:23:47 AM »
It looks like expenses are pretty tight (for a HCOL area), but there are two categories that might yield some easy savings:  Personal Care and Telephone.  Can you break those down some more? 

You can attack the restaurant bill with a few easy tricks: 1) Bag lunches to work are a must, see my suggestions above. 2) Order one dish and one small salad or appetizer and share it between two people.  3) Get in the habit of taking leftovers home.

I agree that dumping the car and moving to a more optimal location are your biggest potential sources of savings.

Hirondelle

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #88 on: January 05, 2018, 07:37:20 AM »
Why would it get boring? I'd say it actually just started to get interesting now you're making your first progress! You've made it below your baseline take-home now, now let's see how much further you can go.

Any options on relocating/downsizing? There's still plenty to win in the car field. And how are you doing with walking/jogging to work?

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #89 on: January 05, 2018, 07:58:14 AM »
Personal Care and Telephone.  Can you break those down some more? 

For 2017 Personal Care

$1800 total
Us:  $277 Boxing Classes for the two of us (we stopped going to these)
Me:  $273 my haircut, $50, every other month (I bear responsibility for not finding a replacement)
Her: the rest,  salons & nails & fitness classes

$452 of this was in May, which is because of 2 weddings in which she was a bridesmaid.

the reality is I'm not going to debate our $150  / month (some of which is mine) on personal care with DW. She  looks great and is in great shape and derives lots of utility from the de-stressing (from her PhD program) from the occasional soulcycle or nails w/ a friend. She has become quite the contributor to the cooking at home effort. Asking her to forego these things is not worth the stress or the savings. Call that anti-mustachian, call it what you will, I have deemed these things worth the life energy* expended; it's this type of stuff that the balance sheet helps (updated: $860K of NW) makes me sloppy/apathetic on. better bang for buck elsewhere. 

"Telephone" is $1,312 ($109 / month) for 2017; some months show up higher because they get two bills in one. this is our internet and cable. I think about $70-$90 of that is for fast internet and the balance is a pretty basic cable package. I could do without cable, but this battle falls in the same category as personal care.

I know I'm super slow to change. I'm trying to make sustainable changes that we both want to do and are on board with and I'm still grappling with whether I actually want to be semi-mustachian or just am dissatisfied with my current job (they're related but not the same).

I'm fighting a lot of work battles right now and walking in the 10 degree weather versus cruising in my heated chariot seems like an overwhelming task. I know I need to get over it.

re-location not happening as of yet. Lease ends in june or july so I'm trying. I half hope our landlord jacks up our rent to make it such that we literally can't afford it.


*yes I read YMOYL, my god was that a tedious book...MMM blog much better
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 08:04:18 AM by mrspendy »

Laura33

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #90 on: January 05, 2018, 11:36:47 AM »
IMO (FWIW), those things you're talking about are the compromises you make to stay married.  So I'm not going to jump on you for that (given that I am in exactly the same boat).  It sounds like she has come a long way in a short time.  You want to praise and reward her for that, not tell her it isn't good enough (a/k/a animal training 101).  And you need the lifestyle you choose to be sustainable for both of you long-term; it's not a race to see who spends the least.

What I will say is that at this point, it's the apartment that is killing you.  You know that.  It is more than half of your budget here and is definitely the biggest, lowest-hanging fruit you have left.  Take that out of the equation, and you guys are spending $2-3K/mo., which is pretty damn good, especially when you are still adjusting from a much more luxurious lifestyle.  So, yeah, you are making the right call to back off of her on the little stuff, and use that energy to keep pushing on the apartment -- maybe even bribe her by telling her she can have another $100+/- every month for that sort of thing if she's willing to cut back to a less-fancy home.  :-)

And sell the damn car already!  ;-)  You know it is going to kill you with a giganto maintenance bill sooner rather than later!  Even if you aren't willing to walk every day, replace it with a POS econobox (or scooter?) that will at least be reliable and not eat you alive in depreciation, insurance, repairs, and maintenance.  Or get your wife something newer and take her POS, since she needs reliability and you don't drive much anyway.  I mean, damn.
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Wayward

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #91 on: January 12, 2018, 10:09:42 AM »
It seems like you have come pretty far, as I myself am guilty of buying a new car (prior to finding MMM, while still having student loans and a low salary *facepunch*) and ending up selling it at a loss to correct that stupid mistake. Please learn from my mistake and also, donít do a lease Ė trying to fix a mistake with another mistake is not going to solve your problems long term!  I would definitely recommend selling your car ASAP and carpooling/walking/biking/ubering on bad days/etc. for your super short commute!

Other than that I just wanted to congratulate you on your progress and to encourage you to keep working on the mindset and communicating future goals with the DW!  Itís okay to have a personal spending allotment each month to keep the peace and not feel deprived imo.     

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2Birds1Stone

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #92 on: January 12, 2018, 11:12:52 AM »
I've been following this case study for the past 4 months and commend you on making progress, albeit slowly.

Your non rent spending is not that ridiculous (to me). My fiance and I spend ~$48k in 2017 but our rent (which includes utilities) was $1,100/month. If we had your rent payment, our spending would actually be higher (gulp).

When will your wife be done with school and making a larger income? As long as you guys don't let lifestyle creep get the best of you, that additional income should boost your after tax savings rate quite a bit.

This thread is motivating me to look at potentially selling my sports luxury car as well.

ubermom4

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #93 on: January 13, 2018, 10:19:42 PM »
Wow. TLDR but have strong thoughts about your postings. Firstly, kudos for posting and asking questions about the direction of your life. It appears you have made some progress. Congrats. Am not sure how to proceed. My background is full of all sorts of privilege --  grew up in Manhattan and Beverly Hills, elite private schools, elite private college, exclusive vacations, very expensive hobbies, etc. Worked on wall street, DH also worked there  -- he grew up in CT. We are very familiar with all sorts of privilege.

Your posts reek of privilege and self indulgence. You cannot help your family background, none of us can. You need to overcome this deep sense of privilege and self indulgence, they will ruin your life.  Your life is full of conflict. You are a trader and meticulously track your expenses. Yay. However, the fact that you are constantly outspending your income means you are constantly 'going the wrong way'. It doesn't matter what car you  drive or what you eat -- it is an extremely simple math problem. If you make more money or get a bigger bonus, this problem will continue. In fact, because of your spendy tastes more money will make your problem worse. There are always better houses, apartments, cars, restaurants,  trips, etc. You seem smart enough to have perceived these verities. A fool and his money are one big party. You have received excellent advice on this forum about how to cut your lifestyle. Use it.

The inheritance you are planning on will be frittered away. Easy, peasy. Happens every day.Hmm. I have not considered how much is frittered away by heirs but I would  not be surprised to see people spending $100m in inheritance in a couple of  decades. We have had friends go through $25m before they were 50 years old. I am not sure how much you are planning on getting but this is a very old song.  We  also have lots of friends that are going through this now -- they are the last generation to have any money or (god forbid) they are the first generation in 5 or 6 to 'work'. You must be familiar with people who have blown through all of their money -- there are so very many of them, all over the country. Their lives are not happier for this choice.

You claim to have done really well by having investments in the 800k range (at least I think that was the initial number mentioned) with $200k from inheritance. Wowser. I think this savings rate is lousy  given your income. Your savings rate needs to be incredibly high (40%+) because your income is so high. Am not sure if you have looked around the trading floor and noticed lots of older folks still working those phones? Traders usually don't work until they are 'old' -- and it's not because they have saved so much money they don't have to work. They are forced out and have to keep working at places further down the food chain.

Sadly, you appear to be wise enough to suspect that the system you are operating in is dysfunctional but not wise enough to develop serious self discipline to avoid the bad fates that are awaiting you. You have received a bunch of face punches here. I hope you don't mind me adding to the pile. I believe this is also my first punching post. I hope it was not too painful but that it galvanizes you to look in the mirror -- take responsibility and action.

ubermom4

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2018, 10:52:10 PM »
I should have added to the car suggestions in my earlier post. We drive older Volvos. We have many teenagers at home. Last year we bought 2 of them -- one was  2004 and the other a 2006 (I think).  It took us a couple of months to find each one. Each cost around $5k and had less than 100k  miles. They should last us at least a decade. BTW Volvo seldom changes the body style so they don't look 'old'. They ride very nicely, are luxurious and safe.  They are also very acceptable at the country club, etc. You will need to find a local Volvo mechanic. They are in most larger cities. Hope this helps you to overcome the stigma of a 'cheap' car.

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2018, 07:14:49 AM »
Laura33: yes, the rent's the problem. I'm working on it.

Wayward/2birds: we've made some changes and thanks for the kudos, but you're also seeing seasonality at work (starting in spendy summer/wedding season and ending in the dead of winter). the true tests of how we've changed will come in the warmer months of 2018.

ubermom:
- I'm not a trader (my salary/bonus at 29 is way too low for that).
- I'm planning on an inheritance that will pay for my unborn kid/s' college from gp's that are in their 90s, which is amazing and i'm very lucky/eternally grateful! Nothing else. I hope my parents live to 100, so their potential inheritance is way beyond my time-horizon for life planning; it's a potential retirement safety net, but I want to stop working for the man before they die (30+ years, hopefully); it isn't built into anything.
- I've done decently well investing* and my savings rate has not been great (hence why we are trying to do dinner parties instead of nights out, eating in during the week, actually using my points earned in the job for travel, and why I am trying to get us to move). My parents worked for their money (1 still is @ 63 but is finally retiring!).
- overall: face punch received, I am privileged and like to indulge and see 40 year old us running that consumption treadmill, which is why i'm here.  i don't mind the face punch so much, but reserve the right to make the above factual corrections.

all: the chorus about me getting rid of the 8 year, $8K car** grows louder...I know I suck for hanging on to it thus far and that while it costs next to nothing in cash flow it will bite me in the ass on a repair soon.

*i actively manage my portfolio which is frowned upon here so I don't really go into detail as to what i do, but it's nothing exotic. 95-99.9% of people should index, but indexing requires people like me to set prices, so thank me for my service. (<--this is a joke)
** I could've said luxurious BMW 5 series, but my mustachian street cred  is higher the older/cheaper the car is.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 01:32:44 PM by mrspendy »

harvestbook

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2018, 12:42:25 PM »
Your actively managing your portfolio and the confidence you exude about it seems to tie into the overall picture. Just imagine what happens if you happen to be wrong at some point and all this becomes much worse?

I'm not face-punching, just fascinated by the psychology of doing the same thing over and over, observing it and declaring it, yet still doing it. Kudos on the progress.
I'm not smart enough to know and I can't afford to guess.

Omalley

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #97 on: January 15, 2018, 07:04:51 PM »
Spent portions of the day reading the thread.  As a guy married for 20+ years, I know all about maintaining marriage harmony.  My advice is to set the example in your home.  Sell the car already.  Find great lightly used, high quality dress clothes on eBay,  find a shoe repair store to re-sole dress shoes when you wear holes into them, find a chain hair cut place for $15 (and use a coupon).  Once your wife sees you making an effort I imagine she will question her own choices as well.

I truly believe that wealth is built over many $10 decisions we make every day.  Our net worth is many multiples of yours, and I question every dollar I spend to determine if the purchase will make my life better. 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 09:24:32 AM by Omalley »

JacobEhrgott

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #98 on: January 17, 2018, 09:41:44 AM »
Good thread. I think one thing people are missing is you are maxing your yearly donations which is a lot better then most people do. I think the main thing you guys should focus on is not INCREASING your lifestyle as you get raises and your wifeís income goes up. Stay at current levels which you clearly seem to need to be happy and throw all growth income directly into savings. Also just as a minor facepunch since Iím mostly going easy on you where the hell so you get your hair cut? $50 good lord your a guy that should be $20.

MrSpendy

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Re: Can Mr. and Mrs. Spendy cut their way to freedom?
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2018, 01:34:44 PM »
I know I said I wouldnít update, but hit a new record low this month without really trying, so that's cool.

July                $6,700
August       $6,733
September       $6,470
October          $6,319 
November      $5,369
December       $5,926
January        $5,079

The proís: Non-Rent: From $3,500 to $1,880 over the tracking period. Restaurants have become special occasions, have hosted friends for dinner parties, utilizing more free entertainment, no real decrease in general happiness. in general just more thoughtful about spending/ asking is it worth it?

The cons: Iím still rolliní hard in the maintenance time-bomb bimmer without excuse for doing so. No progress on moving. Thereís some seasonality effect going on here and we havenít cut our lifestyle in half like the drop in non-rent spending would suggests. Progress has been made, just not quite as much as the numbers would suggest.