Author Topic: Any hope for us?  (Read 7400 times)

DrO

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Any hope for us?
« on: April 27, 2018, 03:34:56 PM »
Hi Folks,

Long time lurker...ready for a rude awakening!

LIFE SITUATION:

My wife (38) and I (40) have a had a pretty rocky financial journey to this point, culminating in a bankruptcy in April of 2016. I’ll get to that in a bit. Anyway, I got a late start to my career due to a dead-end job after undergraduate that led to pursuing a lengthy PhD. The upshot is that my career (academia) didn’t get going until I was 32 years old. We have 4 children and file a joint return.

Kids are 14, 11, 8, & 6. They eat a lot!!!

GROSS SALARY/WAGES

Me: I will gross around $88,ooo in 2018 ($80,799 in 2017). I am a professor and teach as many overloads (classes on top of my regular load) as I can. I get 0.875% of my base salary ($68,266) for each additional class, which works out to about $6,000 per class. Overloads are not an entirely reliable resource, however, as sometimes courses do not make (that is, not enough students enroll, and the course is cancelled). This explains the variation between last year’s income and what I expect this year. It is also worth noting that I tend to take home less money in the summer because I am on a 9-month contract. My income during the summer comes exclusively from teaching summer school courses.

My wife: She homeschools our kids but recently started a side hustle that brings home about $700 per month (except in June, July, and August). All told she will have earned roughly $6000 in 2018. This number could definitely go up, especially if she decides to take on a couple of students—an idea we’ve been playing around with. Anyway…

Total: $94,000
Monthly take-home pay averaged: $6400

PRE-TAX DEDUCTIONS

Retirement account: 9% contribution with matching 9% from employer.  Currently this account has $178,000.
Insurance: $228 (Kids on Medicaid; wife is on a religious cost-sharing program included in monthly expenses below)
Delta Dental: $19

ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME

(2017): $79,394 I would guess this would be closer to 86K in 2018.

TAXES

Fed, $360 per month
State, $280 per month
Medicare, $130 per month
SS: $540 permonty

Rough total $1,300 per month.

MONTHLY EXPENSES

PAYEE   AMOUNT
Gasoline   $350.00
Charity   $300.00
Medicine/supplements   $150.00
Savings   $500.00
Misc   $600.00
Groceries   $1,050.00
Alcohol   $220.00
Medishare   $253.20
Snapbox   $99.00
Kindle Unlimited   $10.69
Wild & Free   $19.00
Netflix   $11.76
Care Credit   $35.00
C-Spire   $137.76
Progressive (cars)   $103.50
Freetime   $7.48
Credit Card   $90.00
Rent   $1,183.65
ATT   $75.00
Sparkle Stories   $15.00
Audible   $22.95
Netflix   $10.69
Utility company   $310.00
Student loan 1   $154.82
Student loan 2   $261.05
Camper Insurance   $11.05
Ruby Med. Bill   $102.30
TOTAL   $6,083.90

ASSETS
2 old cars (paid off)
Savings: $500

LIABILITIES

Mark’s student loan: $112,000 (per month: $274 income-based repayment.)
Sarah’s student loan: $18,000 ($158 per month) 3.375% interest rate
Credit card: $2,800 ($90 per month) 21% interest rate
Care Credit (medical credit card): $500 ($30 per month)
Medical bill for daughter: $250 (2 more payments)

Questions:

(1)   I have confirmed with my student loan provider that I qualify for public-service forgiveness of my student loans after 10 years of repayment. (I have 8 years to go). My intuition is that it doesn’t make sense to dump extra money into paying this thing off if it is going away in 10 years anyway. Am I seeing this the right way? On the other hand, my wife’s loan is not eligible for forgiveness. Should I start dumping money into it?

(2)   Based on my income, is FI before 50 even a possibility? I feel like every time we get a little extra money something breaks, needs replacing, gets sick, etc. In other words, I feel like I’m constantly REACTING to calamity. We just can’t get the ball rolling…

(3)   As noted above, we went through a bankruptcy in April of 2016. We are trying to repair our credit so we can purchase the house we are currently renting for 1150 per month. Chapter 7 requires a minimum of two years to pass before one can purchase a house. Anyway, at a 4.9 % interest rate our monthly payment would be around $950 per month. Good idea?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 03:40:08 PM by DrO »

DrO

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2018, 03:38:54 PM »
I accidentally posted twice...couldn't delete the other one. Sorry! The captcha box is a nightmare!

OkieM

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2018, 05:08:33 PM »
You probably want to break down the $600 misc. That’s a lot!

Also, $220 on alcohol?!? That is an absurd amount.

What is snap box, wild and free, and Cspire?

Can your budget really be correct if you have almost no savings? Probably lots of stuff missing.

MustacheAnxiety

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 05:33:33 PM »
A few clarifying questions.  Does your career in academia offer any kind of pension and/or 401(k) match?  It might make early retirement a little more within reach.

Also the budget looks accurate to me 6,616.16 monthly income - 1300 in taxes - 5,583.9 spending w/ out the "$500 savings" = -267.74 per month.  So right now you are in a debt emergency and at least lightly jogging back to bankruptcy court.  But you are here, we can turn it around with just a couple black eyes.

1) Student Loans: After eliminating credit card debt start paying down your wife's student loan.  Yes, you should be able to make more than 3.375% investing on average but given the high stock market valuations I would take the 3.375%, especially if this is a variable rate loan that may go up later.  Normally I would say pay off your student loan too.  But academia is a place people tend to have longer careers in, so I could see aiming for the forgiveness. 

2) To retire in 10 years you must make drastic changes.  You must save 65%+ of your income every year for the next ten years.  Right now you still appear to be spending all of your income (maybe more since you have managed to accumulate credit card debt that is not paid off each month).  Outside of becoming dual income the below is $1374.19 is probably only enough to pull you back from the anxiety of living paycheck to paycheck and get on track to retire maybe when you are 60 and costs are reduced further due to not supporting kids.
 - Send your kids to public school so that your wife can work a full-time job.  If this is non-negotiable I would say you have to change your driving lifestyle to be 1 car that you almost never drive.  And still 10 years will probably not be practical.
 - It looks like you are driving 4000 miles a month (assuming 35 mpg and $3 gas). That has to stop. Move closer to work. Ride bikes for errands. Do more stuff locally.  Have more time.  Gasoline   Savings $200.00
 - Charity starts at home when you are in hair on fire debt. Saving $300.00
 - No allowances, no misc, no little splurges - you can have $200 to repurpose into categories of things you really need. Misc savings $400.00
 - Get your fancy wine in boxes 3L for $25. Alcohol savings   $195.00
 - Is Snapbox part of your wife's side hustle?  If so I wouldn't consider this spending.  If not you cannot afford $99.00 worth of pictures on pillows every month.  $9 to develop pictures and buy a few frames at TJ Maxx. Snapbox saving: $90.
 - Go to the library. Savings Kindle Unlimited   $10.69 and Audible   $22.95
 - I don't know what these are so you probably don't need them, but I could be wrong: Wild & Free   $19.00 Freetime   $7.48 Sparkle Stories   $15.00
 - Drop a netflix account or maybe this is a typo? Savings Netflix $11.76
 - Your kids don't need cell phones or your cell phones are way too much. Savings C-Spire $60
 - Car insurance.  Do you shop this every 6 months? $103.50 seems high.  If you have savings Progressive at least will give you $75 or so every 6 months to pay in advance.
 - Credit Card. Do whatever you have to do to pay this off each month and avoid this interest.
 - Internet, I assume this is ATT.  Switch every year to get the promo rates you can even switch back and forth between you and your wife on ATT. Savings $30.
 - Sell your Camper. You can still camp in tents. Savings  $11.05 plus money that can be invested.

3) Do not buy your house.  As mentioned above you drive way too much and I assume a long commute is part of the issue.  Also you will spend far more than $200 per month on property taxes and maintenance and insurance, so you will spend more even if you insist on the commute.

marty998

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 08:26:36 PM »
Holy shit you are bleeding a lot of money on little things as @MustacheAnxiety has mentioned.

You gotta cut the misc and the alcohol for the next 4 months and pay off that credit card as soon as possible. @ 21% interest means you are literally burning $500-$600 a year.

$310 a month on utilities is a lot too, as is the petrol $350 a month is a lot of driving.

Basically every category of yours is inflated, lots of room to improve.


brooklynmoney

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2018, 09:12:30 PM »
As everyone said there’s a ton of fat. From booze to an insanely high Misc category to all of those random content subs. Also agree if you want to make progress, send kids to school and wife gets a full time job. Also I don’t think I would be giving to charity if my family was on Medicaid. Your own oxygen mask first and all that. You have a lot of labor ie kids, you could do volunteer work together as a family if that is something you value.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2018, 10:11:13 PM »
ASSETS
2 old cars (paid off)
Savings: $500

DrO

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2018, 10:31:29 PM »
@OkieM Thanks for responding. A few items for clarification:

Snapbox: This is a storage facility where we keep our camper. We actually lived in this camper for 6 months after we sold our house (July 2017). We moved into our current rent house 4 months ago. Anyway, it was a super-inexpensive lifestyle but unsustainable for 2 adults and 4 kids. Our plan was to try to live a "camping" lifesle for 2 years while saving as much as we could. It didn't work out. Our intention to sell it once we (I) am able to fix its leaky hot water tank--currently slated for early May. It should bring in about 5-6K.

Alcohol: We drink too much. And our tastes are too expensive. So, you're right about that...gotta cut way back.

C-spire: Our cell phone service. My phone and my wife's phone. The kids don't have phones. Both lines have unlimited data...but we could cut this back to 3gb per month and save some bucks.

Wild and Free: Useless homeschooling association that we don't use: I've been meaning to cancel it.

Lack of savings: This is a little complicated. We lived in another state until 4 months ago. There, our kids didn't qualify for medicaid. My middle daughter required several medical procedures that depleted what modest savings we had. We found out (last week, in fact) that we qualify for TennCare (Tennessee) and our kids now have insurance. Prior to that, we used a medical cost sharing program (Medi-share) that ran us about $300 per month. The only problem was, the deductible (they don't call it that) was $10,000. Thus we were stuck paying out of pocket for her medical bills. We've mostly paid these off, but it has hurt to do so. Having gained a little breathing room, we are now capable of putting back around $500.

@MustacheAnxiety

I really appreciate your lengthy (and very helpful) response!

(1) I agree that my wife's loan needs to go. As for my academic career, I was tenured last summer and have ZERO intention of going anywhere else. This is the job I will retire from. So, it seems like waiting out the next 8 years for this loan to go away is simply a fact of life.

(2) Homeschooling is a non-negotiable, so I'll comment on your recommendations:

The gasoline situation: This tough because the closer I get to my office the more expensive rent and home prices get. Where we are at present is a 30 minutes commute via my 1998 Chevy S-10. It's not a gas guzzler, but it isn't great either. It gets roughly 23 mpg. My wife TRUCK, however, is an absolute monster. It's a 2002 Chevy Silverado 2500. (12 mpg) This is the vehicle we used to pull our camper. Nothing short of a 3/4 ton truck can pull our 12,000 lb camper, and I'll need it until we can sell the camper. Maybe we could sell both trucks and try to get a minivan (single car)? It's worth thinking about.

The bankruptcy: The same daughter was in the hospital 4 times in 5 years. We couldn't afford health insurance given our fancy farmhouse and farm operation. Thus we sold the farm.

Our current rental situation: We are renting from some friends of ours who have agreed to sell us the house once we're back on our feet. Given where we live, this house is very modestly priced ($135,000). My estimate figure of $950 per month assumes Tennessee's property tax and putting 5% down. Another important detail, our attraction to our current location has (in large part) to do with its location. My wife is a certified Tennessee naturalist and runs a forest school once per week from our home. We have 75 acres of old growth forest behind our house (in the middle of a metropolis) which (this is her side hustle) generates income for us. Moving from this location would compromise this income.

Charity: We tithe 5% to our church. Like our priest. Like our church. We can go there...or not. It's another non-negotionable.

Splurges: Yes, there is probably some of this on my end--especially eating gas station food. As a family, we don't eat out. Don't buy new clothes for the most part. Most of our possessions were had via Goodwill. We have used furniture. Our kids wear hand-me-downs. No sports monthly sports fees. We do spend money on our garden.


@marty998

Agreed

@brooklymoney

See above.

@mustachpongoeshere

Very helpful. :|

Thanks for the feedback so far...



« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 10:35:16 PM by DrO »

OkieM

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2018, 11:03:53 PM »
I feel for you all that you have had some hard times but there are some clear choices here.

1. Stop spending your time drinking booze and use it instead to fix the camper and sell it and the Silverado.
2. Use proceeds to pay off debt and buy inexpensive, used van.
3. Look at selling S-10 and getting a Honda Civic type vehicle if you feel you must commute.
4. Cut out all the BS subscriptions and hang out in the forest/garden instead.
5. And there is still probably low hanging fruit.

This will make your lives much better and healthier with less stress. And then you can think about if you really want to go for early retirement or buying a home and how that fits into the long term plan. But stop the bleeding and short term frame of mind first.

maizefolk

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2018, 11:21:45 PM »
You've given a long list of things which are non-negotiable. If you cannot increase your household income substantially or cut expenses dramatically, FIRE in ten years is honestly not on the table. Now there is nothing wrong with deciding there are things in life you value more than financial independence, but do be conscious that this is the decision you're making.

Increasing household income:
For increasing household income the biggest options are switching jobs (which isn't in the table if you want to retire from your current position), or having your wife work (which isn't on the table because you value home schooling more than the extra income). I know from painful experience how hard it can be to secure a significant raise in academia without institution hopping. Shouldn't you have gotten a somewhat significant bump with the promotion to association professor + tenure last year though? Are you in a field where you can get summer salary from federal grants, industry support, or consulting work?

Decreasing household spending:
Now even if you aren't able to FIRE in 10 years, cutting the alcohol bill to zero, reducing grocery spending (growing kids eat a LOT, but your bill is frankly out of control, especially with one spouse at home during the day to be able pull off lots of low effort, low cost, high caloric value meals), reduced cell phone spending, and selling your camper + second vehicle needed to tow the camper and using that to pay off your high interest credit card debt, will get you from your current situation where you come close to running a deficit in a regular month before anything goes wrong to one where you have some financial resilience in the face the the unexpected expenses that always pop up month to month, particularly with kids in the household.

Also note that buying the house would significantly increase the incidence of these unanticipated expenses: everything from replacing broken appliances to a new roof when it reaches the end of its useful lifespan.

Morning Glory

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2018, 09:20:04 AM »
Ok, you have had lots of advice about how to cut your budget. Follow it. Get off your ass right now and cancel the subscriptions, then go fix that camper!!!!  You can't afford to wait until May. You are spending more than you earn every month and you have only two or three more paychecks until summer. Your first question should be: how do I cut the budget enough to live over the summer without taking on more debt or ending up homeless? Figure this one out, then next fall when your paychecks go up again you can start to save more. 


cchrissyy

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2018, 09:49:57 AM »
Quote
So right now you are in a debt emergency and at least lightly jogging back to bankruptcy court.  But you are here, we can turn it around with just a couple black eyes.

This is so true.  The big red flag I see is simply this: only 2 years after resetting all your debts with bankruptcy you have $3k on a credit card and medical payment plan, at 21% interest and it's growing while you send only the $90 minimum payment. 
I don't need to know anything else (like explaining it with your high grocery bill). The bottom line is that you overspent your earnings and are falling into the debt/bankruptcy hole. You MUST turn this around, pay that debt off, and move in the other direction, the one where every month you spend less than your income.

Laserjet3051

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2018, 10:15:06 AM »
A big part of my success in turning things around in my (financial) life was re-evaluating the "non-negotiable" things, or at least the things that, at the time, I considered non-negotiable. Needless to say, I let go of that firm reluctance to change certain things.

It was both liberating, and in retrospect, in my case, wise.

kei te pai

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2018, 10:25:53 AM »
Could your wife run summer forest school over a whole week? Through the whole school holidays?
do your kids have any knowledge or understanding of the family financial situation? This will take a team effort to turn this ship around. Your big children could help with the littlies , help with meal menues and prep for  meals.
Your wife needs to look at ways she can increase her income from home, and reduce cost.

cchrissyy

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2018, 11:05:31 AM »
what is the value of the camper when you sell it?  and the gas-guzzling truck that pulls the camper?

what monthly bills will disapear when you get rid of them? 
I see $99/m snapbox camper storage, $11/m camper insurance. anything else?
I'm hoping the value of selling the camper and worse truck would combine to be enough to buy an older fuel-efficient car to be your 2nd vehicle and pay down a bit of debt.  But even if it's not that much, you save $110 a month when you sell so this needs to happen ASAP.


(edit - oh i see where the camper is worth $5-6k. good! how much can you get for your wife's 12mpg truck?)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 11:10:53 AM by cchrissyy »

Laura33

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2018, 11:46:28 AM »
OK, a lot of people have given useful advice, so I'm going to be blunt:  you are living a lifestyle that you cannot afford.  And you are asking how you can add even more wants to that list (buying a house, FIRE).  That is not going to happen on your current path.  So you can either dramatically adjust your spending to fit in those extras, or you can decide that your current lifestyle is more important and you'd rather work until 65-70 and continue renting.

I am going to address the medical bills up front, because your daughter's illness is obviously a major issue, both emotionally and financially.  I am sorry you went through that and glad that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  At the same time, you are not in your current situation solely because of those medical bills.  You have made and continue to make choices that put you where you are now.  If you want to improve your situation, you need to focus on those things you can control.

For example:  you took on six-figures of student loan debt to train for a job that pays @2/3 of your loan amount.  This may have been the best option at the time, I don't know.  But I have a feeling you went into it not realizing what that kind of debt was going to feel like day to day.  Now you know, so keep that in mind for future decisions, and do the math up front.

For example:  you have chosen to have your wife SAH and homeschool.  OK.  But by doing so you are foregoing potentially significant additional income and benefits.  Similarly, you continue to tithe to your church, even while your kids are on public assistance (which, generally, is a signal that you are not doing well financially).  You choose to live far from work, while relying on large trucks as your commuter vehicles.  Etc.

Individually, there is nothing wrong with any of these choices.  But they all come with a cost -- and you have decided to make all of them.  And when you make so many of those kinds of choices, you need to adjust your lifestyle expectations accordingly.  But you haven't.  Instead, you chose to take on CC debt at 21% so that you could continue to spend over $400 on lifestyle/entertainment choices (liquor, kindle, audible, netflix, netflix, sparkle, freetime, wild and free, etc. etc. etc.).  And now you are robbing Peter to pay Paul to maintain that lifestyle -- you think you are putting $500/mo into savings, but your budget has you spending over $1000 more each month than you bring in, so in reality, you are running at a deficit every month, and as fast as that money goes into savings, it comes back out again. 

There is a ton of low-hanging fruit here, if you really want to make a change.  I just listed about $400+ of it, and that's before tackling the $600 "misc," the phones, the internet, etc.  Turn in your truck and buy a used Econobox and double your gas mileage.  Dump the camper ASAP for whatever you can get and throw that money at the CC.  If having your wife SAH is your top priority, then her "job" needs to be to become the queen frugalista -- $1000+ grocery bills are ridiculous at any income level, so how about some home economics lessons for the kids?  How can she maximize her own income? 

If you want some real perspective on how you are doing, check this out:  https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/.  Based on your reported numbers, it looks like you're saving around 18% between your contribution and your employer's match.  That puts you on track to retire in about 40 years.  With a few minor course-corrections that at least get you back to even, you'll probably be ok to retire at 67-70 with SS.  If you want to move that number significantly, you need to challenge yourself on a lot of those non-negotiables. 

My specific recommended priorities for savings/debt paydown:

1.  Throw every penny you can at the CC bill.  At 21%, you will never, ever get ahead.  Pay the minimums on everything else, and throw all extra money at that card.
2. Then tackle the medical bill and medical CC -- you don't list the interest rates, but I assume they are more than 3-4%.
3.  Then build your emergency fund.  I am scared for you, because while you are focusing so hard on paying off your daughter's medical bills, what happens if the same thing happens again?  Your wife is still on the same kind of plan that stuck you will those bills, right?  What if she gets sick?  And do you have disability or life insurance?  If not, your family is SOL if something happens to you.  Once you dig out from your past emergency, your next job should be to ensure that you are never in that situation again.
4.  Max out your 401(k).  The more you can sock away there, the earlier you have a chance to retire.
5.  At this point you can think about a house vs. college funding for kids vs. more savings for FIRE.

I am sorry if this comes across as harsh.  But there is a huge, huge gap between your stated goals (buy a house, FIRE) and your current behavior.  You need to remember that life is an "or," not an "and" -- and FIRE at any income level requires living a lifestyle that is far below what you can "afford" to spend.  I wish you guys the best whatever you decide is the most important to you.

bugbaby

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2018, 12:52:49 PM »
What would it cost to put your wife on your employer health plan?

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ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2018, 06:49:58 PM »
Neither of your vehicles can contain your entire family? So when you all go somewhere...you take six people in two pickups, and get like 8 mpg?

You are in a debt emergency. Sell the camper today; how much are you really going to make back on the repair?

Cranky

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2018, 06:59:14 AM »
You went to a lot of trouble to get that PhD, and you want to retire already? In 10 years you'll have 2 kids in college and one yet to go.

I think you should reframe this. You've clearly had a lousy time over the last few years - very sick kid, huge bills, bankruptcy. Focus on getting things in order financially, and giving your family time to stabilize after these crises.

If you get your loans paid off and get everybody to work together to live within your means, you'll be in a really different place in a few years, and then you can decide more clearly about your long term plans.

Meanwhile, sell the camper and the truck and buy a used minivan. Switch to cheap wine in a box. Use the library. You can check out movies and music and dump some of that paid entertainment.

Maybe do Dave Ramsey - he seems like a good fit for your family.

cchrissyy

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2018, 09:23:42 AM »
your library may have much more online entertainment that you think.
 if you haven't looked in to it, you may be surprised to find they can replace your audible, netflix, kindle unlimited, and other media. they might offer free access to these exact things or they might have a 3rd party solution you haven't heard of that gets you the same stuff but you enter your library number instead of a credit card.

Cranky

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2018, 11:02:36 AM »
your library may have much more online entertainment that you think.
 if you haven't looked in to it, you may be surprised to find they can replace your audible, netflix, kindle unlimited, and other media. they might offer free access to these exact things or they might have a 3rd party solution you haven't heard of that gets you the same stuff but you enter your library number instead of a credit card.

Yes, my library offers music and movies through Hoopla. They really do have a lot of stuff available.

civil4life

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2018, 10:05:55 AM »
I think everyone has given you the rundown of the changes that would be necessary for lasting change.

Some thoughts:

Someone else said it...How much more money will you get for the camper by making the fix.  Now is the perfect time to sell it before summer completely rolls around.  Put a for sale sign on it and the car tonight and add to craigslist Etc.

After that cancel all the subscriptions.  Beyond Hoopla there is Libby which allows you to borrow books including audiobooks from your library without leaving the house.

Check out $5 meals.  It is a great website for low cost family meals.  Also, with the 75 acres are you able to plant on any of it?  Can you grow your family vegetables or even more to sell or trade with others?  Also if you qualify for medicaid do you qualify for food stamps?

Also can the 2 older kids start working?  Even if the younger one might be doing babysitting or dog walking etc.

Could you tutor as well?  Especially if you do not get the teaching that you expect too?

I know the tithing is a touchy subject, but maybe consider putting it on hold until you have the debt emergency in control.  That $300 could go to the CC which will get it gone much quicker with much less interest.  As someone else said volunteering for the church maybe a better option.  Also, at this point kids on medicaid and living paycheck to paycheck you are poor.  I think discussing with the pastor that even a temporary stop is a good idea.

Someone else asked how much to add your wife to your insurance?

Good Luck!

zee dot

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2018, 11:11:34 AM »
When I did my case study trying to follow all the advice was overwhelming. 
If it is of any use here is a list of some suggestions by others that you could start taking action on immediately:

•   Cancel Netflix
•   Cancel kindle unlimited
•   Cancel freetime
•   Cancel sparkle stories
•   Cancel audible
•   List camper on Craigslist https://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/tn
•   List Silverado on Craigslist https://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/tn
•   While on Craigslist look for chest freezer
•   Tell your pastor you need to suspend tithe.
•   Talk to pastor about volunteering time instead of money.
•   Find cheaper alcohol or drink less of the good stuff
•   Research cheaper phone plan
•   Research Find out cost of putting spouse on employer health plan
•   Talk to spouse about increasing forest school days/holiday breaks etc
•   Work with spouse to lower grocery bill
•   Introduce yourself & your family to Dave Ramsey
•   Ask older kids to contribute to their expenses via part time work
•   Break down the $600 misc
•   401k or similar – adjust pre-tax contribution to get full employer match

Ben Kurtz

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2018, 05:00:33 PM »
To your three questions:

1. If student loan forgiveness is a serious possibility, make sure you've done your paperwork correctly and then don't bother putting a single extra dime beyond the minimums into student loan payments. You have much higher priorities for the moment anyway, even if forgiveness was not on the table.

2. Ten years to FI starting from your current circumstances? We'll get to that in a moment, but I'm not holding my breath.

3. Should you buy that house instead of rent? Not anytime soon.

Overall observations:

I'm treating your situation as a case study in triage. We need to adopt a two-step solution. There are obvious bleeding money ruptures that need to be fixed, STAT, before you put yourself right back in bankruptcy court. We need to stabilize the patient first. Then, after a few months to see that the danger is passed and the key fixes are working, we can go back in and fine-tune a plan for FIRE. A trauma surgeon takes the heavily injured accident victim and saves his life. Months later, when that is all past, the plastic surgeon comes in and cleans up the scar tissue. That's our approach here.

The good news is that you have a family income pushing six figures, you live in a moderate cost of living area, and you have a wife at home who should be able to contribute to running an efficient household, and you've made a decent start in building up your pre-tax retirement account. The bad news is that you've made a complete hash of the rest of your finances so far, and everything about your background and history suggests that you're somewhat immune from developing financial common sense. This needs to change starting today. And don't hide behind the medical bill issue. In rare cases, a financially prudent family is sunk by ruinous medical costs stemming from the tragic illness of a child. But the rest of your story does not paint the picture of a "financially prudent family," so you don't get to play that card.

Most of the specifics below are things that have already been discussed, but I'm going to attempt to put them in order of urgency:

1. Cancel all the content subscriptions except for one (whatever the family values the most). That's a $60 / month money bleed you can stop in an afternoon, with very little effort and no risk.

2. Take an inventory of your pantry and make some grocery and meal plans with your wife. A monthly food budget of $1,050 is high for a family of six, especially when it is a broke family of six. Moreover, $220 on booze per month for two adults sounds borderline alcoholic. Your monthly food and drinks bill needs to come down to $750, if not lower. If that means lots of beans and rice and rice and beans, with carrots and turnips thrown in for the vitamins and cheap cuts of chicken only on Tuesdays and Saturdays... well... then... so be it. This is something your family can do quickly, without having to line up other variables, but it will take some buy-in and effort. You need to make $500 / month of savings here. Plan menus, plan meals and plan your shopping trips, and it will be far less of an impact on your dinner menus than I'm making it out to be.

3. Fix and sell the camper. Summer is right around the corner and now is the time to get it listed and in front of buyers. That's $110 / month in storage and insurance you'll no longer have to pay, plus sufficient cash proceeds to retire your facepunchworthy credit card balance and most of the outstanding medical bills. This depends on the extent of the repairs and finding a suitable buyer, so you need to start now but you can't count on this taking effect immediately, like the foregoing items.

4. Replace your clownmobile fleet with cars that are fit for purpose. You need an 10+ year old Corolla or compact hatchback for your Oregon-trail level commute, and your wife needs an 10+ year old minivan to move the kids around. Ditching the Silverado once the camper is sold is the obvious first priority. The S-10 gives me pause. It is so old and depreciated that despite its terrible fuel economy (you should be averaging 35+ mpg if you want to commute like an ultramarathoner; 21 mpg is very wasteful on gas) the overall operating costs are probably not that bad. On balance, I say keep it until it breaks beyond economic repair, and only at that point buy a new-to-you compact econobox for any solo commuting purposes.

These four items are your must do's for the next month: cancel subscriptions, meal plan, fix & sell the camper (and cancel the related insurance and storage), and replace the Silverado with a minivan.

Come back in a few weeks when these things are done, and we can then begin to discuss the rest: Other spending optimizations you should look into, properly categorizing your miscellaneous spending, reviewing your savings and investment strategy, discussing your larger lifestyle questions, what your glide-path towards homeownership might be, and what your gilde-path towards FIRE might be. But all that is for later. For now, you need to stop the bleeding, establish a reasonable budget with a decent surplus, and wipe out some of the more egregious debts on your balance sheet.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 05:37:45 PM by Ben Kurtz »

20957

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2018, 05:26:15 PM »
Can you retire in 10 years?  Probably not - for comparison's sake, we make a similar income to you, spend less per month, have no debt besides a mortgage, and have around $100K in the bank, and I'll be shocked if we can make it in under 20.  But trying can only improve our situations, right?

Spiffy

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2018, 11:42:34 AM »
Maybe I missed it, but how does a tenured professor's family qualify for Medicaid? Isn't that for low income families?

Cranky

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2018, 11:53:54 AM »
I'm guessing that it's the state kids' insurance/CHIP program, and the income requirements for that aren't too low. But I'm surprised, too.

calimom

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2018, 07:19:04 PM »
Maybe I missed it, but how does a tenured professor's family qualify for Medicaid? Isn't that for low income families?

I was wondering that too. How come the university is not offering a family medical plan? Also, do they have any sort of program for free or greatly reduced tuition for the offspring of employees? There was no line item for college savings in the case study.

And I know, I know, questioning  home schooling is a touchy subject. But it sounds like OP's wife is a trained teacher? She still has student loans! If she were to agree to at least considering a position in the public school system this family's debt emergency and complete lack of meaningful savings could really improve. There'd be the salary, benefits, pension contributions and the ability to work around the children's school schedule. Why is this so unthinkable for people?

ormaybemidgets

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Re: Any hope for us?
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2018, 08:04:23 AM »
In many states with expanded medicaid, the plan is open to children in families who earn up to 400% of federal poverty level for a small co-pay.  Here in WA the upper limit is $6632 in monthly income for a family of four, with a $30/month copay per kid.  Copay maxes out at $60/family.  For a family of six, the upper income level is $8914 monthly.

Tennessee did not expand Medicaid, and from the chart I googled it looks like the income limit for a family of 6 is 250% of FPL or $84,350.