Author Topic: Next steps on the FIRE goal after home sale boost whilst trapped in America  (Read 3631 times)

freedomfightergal

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After selling a greatly appreciated home, we moved to a lower cost of living area to buy a cheaper home & use the difference to put towards my FIRE goal.

Me - Single parent, mid 50's - Head of household, 2 always hungry teens, NC

Net income $6,350.    ($76,200 per year)
plus current Investment income - about $400 a month - reinvested

Core Monthly Expenses
Rent $2,000
Health Ins $350
Gas $20
Groceries $800 goal - often exceeded
wifi $75
Streaming $25
Elec $200
Dog exp $100 (vet & grooming etc)
Cell phone $20
Insurance Car/Liab/Renters $180
Going out/etc $250
Total $4,020

Plus $200 into 529 college fund every month, saving any excess into Vanguard portfolio

No Debt - 2018 car paid off  -worth about $30k ,it's a hybrid that uses very low Gas, often none for months

Investments
VTI $80k
Other stocks/ETFs $134k (includes Roth IRA of $21k)
529 College fund $15k

Bonds $19k (includes 1 x $10k I bond @ 7.12%)

Cash $850k (recently sold home & paid off small mortgage in full).

Total Assets $1,128,00   

So my situation is unusual in that I haven't been an American Citizen for long, (have lived here many years though).  I was divorced in the US and I'm now stuck here against my will, because it's illegal for me to take my kids back to Australia with me, away from their Dad.  Don't feel bad for him, he's an Australian Citizen too, he just refuses to go back.  (Life Lesson - Always get a prenup if you become a 'trailing spouse' expat).  The consequence of being a recent citizen and an "expatriate spouse", is that I have ZERO social security coming down the pipeline, so essentially I'm on my own iro retirement.   

Key point - This may blow some minds now,  the "income" stated above is Child support.  Again don't feel bad for him, it's about 5% of his earnings.  He stole the kids very fat college funds, stole my share of retirement etc Not a good guy & he has tried many times to pay zero towards his kids lives.    I have worked in various jobs to top up this amount.  Unfortunately, because I was a stay at home mom for  years and I'm not in my home country, - my prior work experience hasn't translated to decent wages here.  I have worked at a soul sucking job for about $50k a year.  I will be looking for new employment once settled again, but don't want to count on it as I've had serious health issues, (Cancer), and I'm not sure of my ability to keep working properly in the future.  So my goal is to try and come up with a plan to at least have survival investment setup, aka LeanFIRE.

The Child support will halve in 2 years and end in 4 years. 

So my goal was to try and achieve an investment portfolio of at least $750k, to generate an income, (based on 4% rule, 3.5% to be really safe), of $26k-$30k.  I figure I can survive on this if necessary with a fully paid off house, vegetable garden and perhaps (?) kids off to college. Hopefully with new employment I can make this a lot higher.

With a fully paid of home, I can save $36,000 for the next 2 years more in addition to current investments.

My crossroads right now is buying a new home.  We're renting a small apartment in the good school district we like till we find a suitable house.  Here is my conundrum.  When I was looking last year the homes were a lot cheaper.  I had hoped I could downsize enough to get close to my $750k FIRE goal.  But it's insane right now.  Even houses that need work are going for $700k which would leave me with just $150k to add to the FIRE fund.   So here are my options I think based on the school district we don't want to leave:

1. Keep renting until a crash occurs, then buy a house much cheaper - leaves more cash for FIRE Fund (FF). But it may not happen, it may keep increasing.  We have a big dog, so really missing a big yard.  Also, once I buy in cash I won't have a mortgage payment & will be able to save a lot more.

2. Just buy a house at $700 - $800k ($800k gets a house that doesn't need work).  I can sell in 4 years and drastically downsize to put into FF.  But market might plunge, potential loss.

3. Keep trying to find or wait for much cheaper house say $550k.  This will leave $300k to add to FF. 

The $700k plus homes are in nicer community style areas with HOA's. So attractive as a Single mom for a sense of safety and more community for kids.

The potential $550k homes are not in the nicest areas, no HOA. As in I'd want to have some guns around and would be less inclined to let the kids run around the area.

I also plan to save hard over the next few years to add to FF.
I also would like a house with enough land to grow a vegetable garden and fruit trees.  in my last home I had a wonderful food forest that supplied a lot of fresh salad and veggies every day.  I'd really like to improve upon that and see it as part of my retirement plan to be able to grow a substantial portion of my food.

IRO college, I know I haven't saved much.  My Ex has said he won't contribute either.  So an option is the kids are eligible for Australian citizenship and therefore very cheap college.  Who knows what will happen though. If they both go there, I will go back too, if they want to stay here I will want to as well, (accidental anchor babies!).  In Australia I would be eligible for very low government Pension at age 67.  I also have a small Australian retirement portfolio that I can't touch until age 65, I'm not including it in my plans as it's not very high or accessible for a long time.

I found MMM about 5 yeas ago and it was such an  inspiration.  Until I found MMM, I'd figured I'd just walk off a long pier at Retirement and just focus on making my kids life as best as possible until then.  Since then I've geoarbitraged, rid myself of debt, saved, invested, become somewhat frugal, side hustled, learnt how to do a lot of things for myself eg grow food, fix plumbing, other home maintenance, invest etc.

The answers may be really obvious to someone reading this.  I'm in the weeds unable to see it too clearly and emotional about it I guess. So I'm hoping for some wisdom and guidance to not screw up. 

Many thanks in advance.










« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 02:57:11 PM by freedomfightergal »

zolotiyeruki

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tl;dr:  Since your living situation has a high likelihood of changing within a few years, I'd recommend *not* purchasing a home now.

Wow, your situation is certainly one I've not seen here before.  That said, I have a sibling who found herself in a similar situation several years ago, albeit at a younger age.  There are a lot of moving parts here--alimony now, alimony in two years, potential earned income now, cash ready to invest, wanting to buy a home, etc.   Here are a few thoughts:

--It will be hard.  My sibling had also been a SAHP for many years, and basically had to start from scratch.  It will be hard.  Get used to that idea.

--It appears that all of your options assume a home purchase with cash.  There are at least two other options which may be more helpful: A) rent, or B) buy a house with 20% down. If you take option B, you'd only have to put down $140k, leaving you with $710k to invest, although your income would then also have to cover a mortgage payment.

--I'm a little confused.  You mentioned that your expected lean-FIRE spending is $30k/year, assuming a paid-off house.  But your actual expenses only add up to (housing + $2,020)/month, which is substantially less.  And once the kids are off to college, I can only imagine your grocery budget will plunge, driving your spend even lower.  Are you expecting home-related expenses to make up the gap?

--You are four years from empty-nesterhood.  Since your lifestyle is likely to change dramatically at that point, I'd hold off on purchasing a home just yet.

--You also just moved across the country, and you have a place to live for the time being, so I would suggest you not rush into also buying a home.  You have enough major transitions to deal with already.

--If you start working now, does your earned income going forward get you credits toward social security?  You have to have 10 years' worth of credits in order to get anything out.  I ran to the SS quick calculator, and if you worked from now until age 65, at $50k/year, you would be eligible for about $12k/year in SSI at age 65.

--You need to build yourself a spreadsheet.  Each row is a year, and the columns show your projected earnings, savings, and spending.  In addition, cFIREsim is an excellent tool that can let you add all sorts of adjustments to income and spending.

Because your income will vary dramatically, but only over the next four years, But let's run through a couple of scenarios.  These all assume 7% growth after inflation, so treat them as only a starting point

Scenario A:  Buy a $700k house with cash, $30k/year spending, invest the remaining $150k
You start with $380k.  You work and earn $40k/year after taxes.
Years 1-2: You can invest ($76k+$40k-$30k) = $86k
Years 3-4: You can invest ($38k+$40k-$30k) = $48k
At this point, you'd have right about $750k saved up--enough to cover your $30k/year expenses.  You could retire at this point.  Or, you could continue working and allow your stash to grow.

Scenario B: Put 20% down on a house, invest the rest. Work to earn $40k/year after taxes.
Principal and interest on the mortgage (4%, 30-year) would be $2700/mo, or $32,400/year.  Total spending: $62k/year
Now, you start with ($710k + $233k) = $943k
Years 1-2: You can invest ($76k+$40k-$62k) = $54k
Years 3-4: You can invest ($38k+$40k-$62k) = $16k
Years 5-10: You can invest ($0k + $40k - $62k) = -22k (you start to draw down your accounts)
At age 60, you have just the right amount saved up ($1.55M) to cover your $62k/year spending

Scenario C: Stay renting the apartment, invest everything
Spending is the same as current ($48k/year)
Now, you start with $850k + $233k = $1.18M.  In this scenario, this is almost enough to let you retire right now, with the 4% rule.
Years 1-2: You can invest ($76k+$40k-$48k) = $68k
Years 3-4: You can invest ($38K+$40k-$48k) = $30k
At this point, you would have $1.66MM.  This gives you enough to pay for the house in cash and still have more than enough to retire.  That said, home costs could have risen further in this time)

Of these three, B looks the worst.  That's because a good chunk of your spending is going toward interest, plus another chunk is increasing your net worth via home equity, and it does not account for appreciation of your home

The housing industry in the US in in a bit of a perfect storm:  inventory is at historic lows, demand is suddenly higher (remote work!), material costs for new construction are much higher, labor shortages and material shortages are causing all sorts of headaches.  I personally expect things to settle down over the next couple years, as the shocks from covid work their way through the system, but it's going to be a rocky road.

All that said, you've stated that you're willing to relocate to be near (or at least in the same country as) your kids.  Since they'll both graduate high school in the next four years, I'd suggest you hold off on purchasing a home until you have a better handle on what your life will look like.  In the meantime, find a good job, save like crazy, and enjoy the time you have with your kids!

freedomfightergal

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Thank you so much Zolotiyeruki!  It is truly heartening to get some sage advice.  I didn't realize how alone I felt in making these huge decisions, your response truly brought me to tears of appreciation.

I'll ruminate on this for a while.

SunnyDays

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The last paragraph above sums up what I was going to say.  Your life could change drastically in 4 years, so tying yourself to a mortgage might not be wise.

If you look for a roommate/shared rental, will that save you enough to make it worth it?

You say you’re “somewhat frugal.”  How much can you improve on that?

Let the kids know that they’re on their own for college expenses, so they had better start preparing for this.  Summer jobs, high marks to snag scholarships, look into the trades, etc.  They have way more time to pay off an education than you do to save for retirement.

Also, how old is the dog/how old will it be in 4 years?  You might not need to factor it into your plans, unfortunately.

iluvzbeach

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Does your ex qualify for US-based social security? If so, if you remain single, once you turn 62 you should be able to draw on his SS benefits and it won’t affect how much he’ll get. You can factor this in to your retirement planning.

freedomfightergal

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Unfortunately due to length of marriage I don't qualify for the SS benefits of my Ex.  A serious failing of my Attorney to not explain it to me.  Not being a Citizen I wasn't aware of this possibility and they just brushed aside my questions about this.  It's too late now to rectify and not worth spending a fortune trying to sue an Attorney that would just lie or say it's public knowledge. 

zolotiyeruki

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Unfortunately due to length of marriage I don't qualify for the SS benefits of my Ex.  A serious failing of my Attorney to not explain it to me.  Not being a Citizen I wasn't aware of this possibility and they just brushed aside my questions about this.  It's too late now to rectify and not worth spending a fortune trying to sue an Attorney that would just lie or say it's public knowledge.
Can your earnings from now on qualify for SS benefits?

freedomfightergal

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The last paragraph above sums up what I was going to say.  Your life could change drastically in 4 years, so tying yourself to a mortgage might not be wise.

If you look for a roommate/shared rental, will that save you enough to make it worth it?

You say you’re “somewhat frugal.”  How much can you improve on that?

Let the kids know that they’re on their own for college expenses, so they had better start preparing for this.  Summer jobs, high marks to snag scholarships, look into the trades, etc.  They have way more time to pay off an education than you do to save for retirement.



Also, how old is the dog/how old will it be in 4 years?  You might not need to factor it into your plans, unfortunately.

I would be buying in cash - so no mortgage.  I prefer the no debt option.

The kids are aware of having to pay for college, get scholarships or go to an Australian college (which is almost free for Australians - under a Government deferment program - ie go now, pay later, they will be eligible for it).  Luckily they both excel academically.  I would love to pay for them, but believe it's best to be able to support myself first. If I get really lucky in the stock market or other area, I will of course be helping them.  Plus I want to always have a home for them to live in.  They can go to local colleges in our area and stay at home.

I'm very frugal in most areas, but will occasionally, (before Covid), travel overseas (really missing traveling).  So I can be really tight on my budget when necessary, but will loosen up for some things that bring a lot of satisfaction.

I've a plethora of bad room mate stories from my 20's.  Never again!   I've also been a Landlord before and what a total nightmare.  Hated it.  I prefer Investing via stocks, bonds etc, much less hassle.

Our beloved doggy is 5 years old now.  All our prior dogs have lived to 13 yo, so I assume he has at least 8 years left in him.  I also get a lot of enjoyment out of gardening, so I want a yard for that reason too.

Thanks for your feedback.

freedomfightergal

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Unfortunately due to length of marriage I don't qualify for the SS benefits of my Ex.  A serious failing of my Attorney to not explain it to me.  Not being a Citizen I wasn't aware of this possibility and they just brushed aside my questions about this.  It's too late now to rectify and not worth spending a fortune trying to sue an Attorney that would just lie or say it's public knowledge.
Can your earnings from now on qualify for SS benefits?

Yes, I'm a Citizen now.  I have a couple of credits, but need about 8 years more.  I'm looking for a new job so I can get the credits necessary.  But I am also planning on the worst case scenario of not obtaining those, in a hope for the best, plan for the worst idea.    I've also found now at my age now it is a lot harder to find decent work.  Yes, even in this market.  I've definitely encountered ageism.


Villanelle

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I think I'd try to househack.  I know you said you don't love landlording, but it seems like a great option.  Buy a home with an apartment or smaller unit.  Live in the home and collect rent on the smaller part.  When the kids move out, move into the smaller unit and rent the larger one. 

Otherwise, I would not buy at all.  And when you I did eventually buy, I'd keep a mortgage.  Check out the Don't Pay Off your Mortgage thread for reasons on why having a mortgage can be fantastic. . 

(Do you plan to stay in the US after the kids graduate high school?)

freedomfightergal

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I think I'd try to househack.  I know you said you don't love landlording, but it seems like a great option.  Buy a home with an apartment or smaller unit.  Live in the home and collect rent on the smaller part.  When the kids move out, move into the smaller unit and rent the larger one. 

Otherwise, I would not buy at all.  And when you I did eventually buy, I'd keep a mortgage.  Check out the Don't Pay Off your Mortgage thread for reasons on why having a mortgage can be fantastic. . 

(Do you plan to stay in the US after the kids graduate high school?)

Thanks I'll check out that thread regarding Mortgages.  I've considered it before, but like the certainty of saving many thousands in interest vs the potential greater return in equities, which could actually be a loss instead.

Househacking seems great in theory. But I think I'm becoming a curmudgeon in my older years. I have lost so much respect for people..  Give me just my kids, dog & garden.  This is sad I know.  I used to be incredibly sociable & full of life, but my divorce has really taken a toll.  All those parties & BBQ's I hosted in my married life, mean jack shit now.  All those people aren't my friends anymore.  Obviously they weren't real friends.  So I don't bother making any effort anymore, apart from a few genuine ones.

I would ideally love to return to Australia.  But if my kids want to stay in the US I would want to stay near them.  They are my life now. 

deborah

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You say you would be eligible for a small OAP at 67. If you return to Australia, you should get the whole OAP, subject to the means test because you’ve already lived here for 10 years. If you continued to live in the USA, you’d be subject to the 35 years after 16 rule, which would make it very small indeed. However, there is a reciprocal agreement between the US and Australia which allows you to credit US social security to the OAP and vice versa, depending on where you end up.

For instance see

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/international-social-security-agreements/current-international-social-security-agreements/australia-and-the-united-states-of-america-usa-frequently-asked-questions

Dicey

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Another vote to put off buying a house and if/when you do to put only 20% down. Feel free to explore the whys of this over at the DPOYM Club. We don't bite.

SwordGuy

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I'm in Fayetteville, NC and there are gobs of homes well below $200k. 6th largest metro area in NC.  I don't know what community you're currently in, but you don't have to settle for crazy home prices.   

NC also has some EXTREMELY affordable state universities.  5 or 6 have especially low costs.  If your kid lives within commuting distance they could end up with a 4 year degree for less than the average price of a new car.  This is a big deal in your circumstances and for your kids.

Folks have already addressed some of the SS issues, but whatever you do, get enough work credits to get something for SS in your own right.   The system is geared to subsidize lower earners with higher payments, so you might be surprised.  If you're looking to live on a $750K stock/bond nest egg and the 4% rule, even $10K per year in SS would make a huge difference.   In addition, check the SS rules because you might qualify as a spouse and get higher payments due to your ex's work record.

Feel free to contact me about real estate in the Fayetteville area.   I know quite a few of the neighborhoods due to driving around them looking for rental properties.  There are a lot of surprisingly nice neighborhoods in my town and the prices are a HELL of a lot lower.   We have 4 rental properties in working class neighborhoods that are quite nice.  They have some nice neighbors too.  (I took the time to meet them when we renovated the homes.)

zolotiyeruki

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SwordGuy brings up a very good point:  Looking back, I'm surprised that nobody has pushed back on your $700k home price.  There are a LOT of very nice areas in the US where you can get a home for a whole lot less money than that.  Just in my neighborhood (outer Chicago suburbs), where prices have gone up probably 40% in the last two years, you could spend $450k and get 3,500 square feet, plus a full basement, on 1/4 acre, within walking distance of the elementary, jr. high, and high schools.  Of course, the $10k/year in property taxes will set you back, but the $250k you'd save would make up for it.  And this is in a quiet suburb, low crime, pretty good schools, etc, and our neighborhood is one of the pricier ones in the area.

(Edited to make it clear I hadn't missed SwordGuy's comment)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 09:52:48 PM by zolotiyeruki »

SwordGuy

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Looking back, I'm surprised that nobody has pushed back on your $700k home price.

I rather thought I had already done that.

Was I too polite?   I'll try again.   Even considering a $700K house in this situation is financial insanity.

OP, look for a job in a lower cost area where you can find a 3 bedroom/ 2 bath house for $150k or thereabouts.   Less if you're handy and willing to do some fix-up yourself with the help of your kids.   

Even better, look for one within easy commuting distance (preferably biking distance!) to one of the very affordable NC state universities on this list:

https://www.collegecalc.org/lists/north-carolina/most-affordable-in-state-tuition/

Note those tuitions!   

Now, here's a dirty little secret that most US parents won't own up to.   99.9% of all college students simply do not need to go to a super-top-notch school -- because they aren't students in the 99.9th percentile of quality students.   

Even worse, the overwhelming majority of US college students will dick around instead of using their college time to master the material they are supposed to be learning.   

Now for the good news.   A college student who is determined to get a qood education can get one at most any college in the country -- and that's all that's needed for your kids to have the leg up they need to prosper in this country or any other Western country.   An exceptionally few students would truly make great use of being in the best possible college for their field of study -- and those should be able to get scholarships.

Given your situation, with an unstable and diminishing income, your focus should be on making sure you are (a) financially secure in case your health declines and then (b) finding a supremely affordable way for your kids to get a college education.  Since you're in NC, you have in-state access to NC state universities.   As I said, it's possible for someone to get a college education in NC for less than the average price of a new car.   Living at home and using a bicycle for commuting will mean you can afford to get both kids thru college debt free.  That's huge.

PS -- I used to ride my bike 5.5 miles to college and back lots of times.  It's very do-able. 

zolotiyeruki

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Looking back, I'm surprised that nobody has pushed back on your $700k home price.

I rather thought I had already done that.
My apologies--my intent was not to brush off your post.  On the contrary, I was attempting to bring more attention to your very good point. (I've edited it to make that more clear)

freedomfightergal

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Thanks everyone for the input.  We are kind of locked into a particular school district, we moved to it because of it's good reputation and my kids have lifelong friends in it that also moved here.  I don't want them to have to move schools again.

I'm hoping the Fed raising interest rates & inflation cause a cool down in the market and I've started looking at homes in the $500k price range. 

Rdy2Fire

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I'm in the camp of do not buy as a lot can change in 4 years.

Also, if returning to Australia is something you want or would consider once your kids are in college then owning a house in the US would probably/possibly just complicate that. Your situation is definitely unique here but I think the 1st thing you really need to consider is where do you want to live long term (US or OZ). Maybe not even where you want to live but where it would be best to eventually retire.

freedomfightergal

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You say you would be eligible for a small OAP at 67. If you return to Australia, you should get the whole OAP, subject to the means test because you’ve already lived here for 10 years. If you continued to live in the USA, you’d be subject to the 35 years after 16 rule, which would make it very small indeed. However, there is a reciprocal agreement between the US and Australia which allows you to credit US social security to the OAP and vice versa, depending on where you end up.

For instance see

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/international-social-security-agreements/current-international-social-security-agreements/australia-and-the-united-states-of-america-usa-frequently-asked-questions

Thank your for this link!  That's really interesting but also incredibly confusing.  I'm hoping it means my 15+ years of work in Australia means that I do actually qualify for US Social Security.  I've tried logging into the SS website and will try to contact them to verify.  I want to be really sure.  It sure would be nice to know I'll have some Retirement income from that after all.   Thank you so much again.


SwordGuy

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While you're talking to SS, have the marriage and divorce dates of your marriage handy, and ask them about whether you will qualify under your ex-spouse's social security.   You might be pleasantly surprised.

freedomfightergal

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Another vote to put off buying a house and if/when you do to put only 20% down. Feel free to explore the whys of this over at the DPOYM Club. We don't bite.

I tried to find the DPOYM club thread without success, are you able to link it?

Thank you

SwordGuy

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@freedomfightergal ,  here you go.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/dont-payoff-your-mortgage-club/

It's a long thread because gobs of people tried to come up with reasons why, in their case, it was the right FINANCIAL choice to pay off the mortgage early.    Very few people came up with a scenario that correctly justified that decision.

travel2020

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You say you would be eligible for a small OAP at 67. If you return to Australia, you should get the whole OAP, subject to the means test because you’ve already lived here for 10 years. If you continued to live in the USA, you’d be subject to the 35 years after 16 rule, which would make it very small indeed. However, there is a reciprocal agreement between the US and Australia which allows you to credit US social security to the OAP and vice versa, depending on where you end up.

For instance see

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/international-social-security-agreements/current-international-social-security-agreements/australia-and-the-united-states-of-america-usa-frequently-asked-questions

Thank your for this link!  That's really interesting but also incredibly confusing.  I'm hoping it means my 15+ years of work in Australia means that I do actually qualify for US Social Security.  I've tried logging into the SS website and will try to contact them to verify.  I want to be really sure.  It sure would be nice to know I'll have some Retirement income from that after all.   Thank you so much again.

@freedomfightergal - I came across the following US social security admin doc recently that might be helpful to you (see page 7 or so for details on how the US/Australia reciprocal agreement works and how many credits you need in one country for it to count in another): https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10176.pdf