Author Topic: ACA case study  (Read 1351 times)

MoStash

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ACA case study
« on: April 16, 2021, 11:05:31 PM »
I知 trying to find the sweet spot with MAGI/Roth conversions, taxes, ACA subsidies, and quality health care. Our annual spend is 25-30K. I知 leaving my job next month, my husband works part-time (10K annually) and we make 3K on a rental. We have a few years of cash squirreled away before I have to access my 457.

We are 53 and mostly healthy, have had our annual physicals, colonoscopies, mammogram, all recommended vaccines, etc.

My current thinking for this year is to Roth convert up to $39,500, putting at least $4,000 of earned income into an IRA to maximize the savers credit. At that income an expanded bronze Oscar HDHP would have a $0 premium and still allow us to put $4200 into an HSA.

OR I could Roth convert to $34,480 and pay $50 monthly for a Blue Cross silver plan with CSR, no deductible and much lower out of pocket.

So I知 trying to figure the total annual cost of going with the better silver plan. $600 for the premiums, $500 in taxes I値l have to pay later for the lower Roth conversion, and $720 in taxes for not maxing the HSA.

Does that all sound right? What am I missing, or where have I gone wrong? What would you do in these circumstances?

@seattlecyclone you seem to have the best understanding of this topic, thank you for any input you could share.

seattlecyclone

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Re: ACA case study
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2021, 11:50:05 PM »
I知 trying to find the sweet spot with MAGI/Roth conversions, taxes, ACA subsidies, and quality health care. Our annual spend is 25-30K. I知 leaving my job next month, my husband works part-time (10K annually) and we make 3K on a rental. We have a few years of cash squirreled away before I have to access my 457.

We are 53 and mostly healthy, have had our annual physicals, colonoscopies, mammogram, all recommended vaccines, etc.

My current thinking for this year is to Roth convert up to $39,500, putting at least $4,000 of earned income into an IRA to maximize the savers credit. At that income an expanded bronze Oscar HDHP would have a $0 premium and still allow us to put $4200 into an HSA.

You're looking at a $39,500 threshold for the saver's credit, I presume. Why contribute only $4,200 to the HSA? If you have family HDHP coverage you're allowed to contribute $7,200. Be aware that the HSA contribution will lower your AGI. Max out your HSA and you'd be able to Roth convert up to $46,700 AGI pre-HSA and then put $7,200 in your HSA to bring your AGI back down to the $39,500 level.

Also be aware that once you start withdrawing anything from your retirement accounts the saver's credit will be much harder to qualify for. If you've withdrawn more in the past few years than you've contributed just this year, no saver's credit for you. Therefore the saver's credit may be available for the next few years if you plan to withdraw only from your cash cushion until it runs out.

This seems like an unusual strategy though; many people who keep that much in cash like to basically keep it untouched as a backup plan in case of a market downturn, not as the first priority to draw down even in a bull market.

Finally, be aware that the saver's credit is non-refundable. Many people are excited at the prospect of saving $2,000 from this, but that's only if you have $2,000 of taxes to offset. In your situation if you have $39,500 AGI, none of it capital gains/qualified dividends, and claim the standard deduction, you'll only have $1,440 of tax before the saver's credit. If you itemize deductions and/or have capital gains income, the benefit from the saver's credit will be less than this.

Quote
OR I could Roth convert to $34,480 and pay $50 monthly for a Blue Cross silver plan with CSR, no deductible and much lower out of pocket.

Yes, this is another option. Stay under 200% of the poverty level and your health expense worst-case scenario goes down.

Quote
So I知 trying to figure the total annual cost of going with the better silver plan. $600 for the premiums, $500 in taxes I値l have to pay later for the lower Roth conversion, and $720 in taxes for not maxing the HSA.

I think a big variable in this equation is your health. Go with the CSR silver plan and you reduce your worst-case expenses quite a bit, but the trade-off is your best-case expenses are slightly higher. That could be the right trade-off or the wrong trade-off, and it all depends on how much you spend on medical care. A couple of trips to an urgent care clinic could erase much of the tax advantage from your bronze plan strategy, and one trip to the hospital would make the silver plan the obvious winner. What's your most likely total of your doctor bills for the year? That's a question you're better equipped to answer than I.

MoStash

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Re: ACA case study
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2021, 09:15:01 AM »
I知 trying to find the sweet spot with MAGI/Roth conversions, taxes, ACA subsidies, and quality health care. Our annual spend is 25-30K. I知 leaving my job next month, my husband works part-time (10K annually) and we make 3K on a rental. We have a few years of cash squirreled away before I have to access my 457.

We are 53 and mostly healthy, have had our annual physicals, colonoscopies, mammogram, all recommended vaccines, etc.

My current thinking for this year is to Roth convert up to $39,500, putting at least $4,000 of earned income into an IRA to maximize the savers credit. At that income an expanded bronze Oscar HDHP would have a $0 premium and still allow us to put $4200 into an HSA.

You're looking at a $39,500 threshold for the saver's credit, I presume. Why contribute only $4,200 to the HSA? If you have family HDHP coverage you're allowed to contribute $7,200. Be aware that the HSA contribution will lower your AGI. Max out your HSA and you'd be able to Roth convert up to $46,700 AGI pre-HSA and then put $7,200 in your HSA to bring your AGI back down to the $39,500 level.

Also be aware that once you start withdrawing anything from your retirement accounts the saver's credit will be much harder to qualify for. If you've withdrawn more in the past few years than you've contributed just this year, no saver's credit for you. Therefore the saver's credit may be available for the next few years if you plan to withdraw only from your cash cushion until it runs out.

This seems like an unusual strategy though; many people who keep that much in cash like to basically keep it untouched as a backup plan in case of a market downturn, not as the first priority to draw down even in a bull market.

Finally, be aware that the saver's credit is non-refundable. Many people are excited at the prospect of saving $2,000 from this, but that's only if you have $2,000 of taxes to offset. In your situation if you have $39,500 AGI, none of it capital gains/qualified dividends, and claim the standard deduction, you'll only have $1,440 of tax before the saver's credit. If you itemize deductions and/or have capital gains income, the benefit from the saver's credit will be less than this.

Quote
OR I could Roth convert to $34,480 and pay $50 monthly for a Blue Cross silver plan with CSR, no deductible and much lower out of pocket.

Yes, this is another option. Stay under 200% of the poverty level and your health expense worst-case scenario goes down.

Quote
So I知 trying to figure the total annual cost of going with the better silver plan. $600 for the premiums, $500 in taxes I値l have to pay later for the lower Roth conversion, and $720 in taxes for not maxing the HSA.

I think a big variable in this equation is your health. Go with the CSR silver plan and you reduce your worst-case expenses quite a bit, but the trade-off is your best-case expenses are slightly higher. That could be the right trade-off or the wrong trade-off, and it all depends on how much you spend on medical care. A couple of trips to an urgent care clinic could erase much of the tax advantage from your bronze plan strategy, and one trip to the hospital would make the silver plan the obvious winner. What's your most likely total of your doctor bills for the year? That's a question you're better equipped to answer than I.

Thank you for taking the time to look this over. I don't know anyone in real life who understands my questions!

The HSA $4200 is only for 2021, because we would be on the HDHP for seven months.

We only have ~75K in cash/CDs, which would last three years assuming my husband's earnings all go to the HSA plus the IRA to qualify for the savers credit. After that we have my 457 and 20 years of Roth contributions to start withdrawing from.

In a perfect world, we will have no medical expenses this year. It doesn't seem like you have found any glaring errors with my math, so it would cost us $1800 annually (for the next three years anyway) to go with the better coverage.

I have gambled in the past with HDHPs; most years we came out on top but it only takes one broken arm or one complicated biopsy to flip the script.

secondcor521

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Re: ACA case study
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2021, 10:46:49 AM »
You might qualify to fund your HSA with the full annual contribution limit of $7,200.  Read up on the "Last month rule" and "testing period" on page 1 of the instructions for Form 8889 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/i8889--2020.pdf).

Another minor adjustment - if you file MFJ and donate $600 via cash or check to charities, you can take an adjustment for the donations even if you don't itemize.  This is a slight modification from 2020 due to the bill passed into law last December (CAA 2021).  See line 10b of Form 1040 and the 2021 (not 2020) instructions for that line.  This $600 adjustment works pretty much like an HSA contribution in terms of taxes - it'll give you another $600 worth of Roth conversions basically.

MoStash

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Re: ACA case study
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2021, 12:09:09 PM »
You might qualify to fund your HSA with the full annual contribution limit of $7,200.  Read up on the "Last month rule" and "testing period" on page 1 of the instructions for Form 8889 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/i8889--2020.pdf).

Another minor adjustment - if you file MFJ and donate $600 via cash or check to charities, you can take an adjustment for the donations even if you don't itemize.  This is a slight modification from 2020 due to the bill passed into law last December (CAA 2021).  See line 10b of Form 1040 and the 2021 (not 2020) instructions for that line.  This $600 adjustment works pretty much like an HSA contribution in terms of taxes - it'll give you another $600 worth of Roth conversions basically.

Thank you. I read the last month rule and if I understand it, we could contribute the full HSA amount for this year but only if we were going to go with the HDHP for all of 2022. Is that right?

And thank you for the reminder of the above the line charitable donation doubling. We can definitely prove more than $600 in donations.

secondcor521

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Re: ACA case study
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2021, 05:29:35 PM »
You might qualify to fund your HSA with the full annual contribution limit of $7,200.  Read up on the "Last month rule" and "testing period" on page 1 of the instructions for Form 8889 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/i8889--2020.pdf).

Another minor adjustment - if you file MFJ and donate $600 via cash or check to charities, you can take an adjustment for the donations even if you don't itemize.  This is a slight modification from 2020 due to the bill passed into law last December (CAA 2021).  See line 10b of Form 1040 and the 2021 (not 2020) instructions for that line.  This $600 adjustment works pretty much like an HSA contribution in terms of taxes - it'll give you another $600 worth of Roth conversions basically.

Thank you. I read the last month rule and if I understand it, we could contribute the full HSA amount for this year but only if we were going to go with the HDHP for all of 2022. Is that right?

And thank you for the reminder of the above the line charitable donation doubling. We can definitely prove more than $600 in donations.

Yep, that's the basics of the last month rule.