Author Topic: Contractor Employee - RRSP?  (Read 2574 times)

kenmoremmm

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Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« on: August 30, 2022, 11:55:37 PM »
My wife is starting a position in the next few weeks where she will be serving in a contractor role as a physiotherapist.

We are both US citizens and in Canada on a temp work permit with the goal of attaining permanent residency and, eventually citizenship.

Can she invest in any kind of RRSP? There is not one offered through her work as she is on a contractor status, as are all the other physio's.


Semi-related, is there a way for her to acquire short term or long term disability insurance as a contractor? She recently had a fluke fall while hiking that is pushing back her start date. Since her job involves being physically able, unlike a lot of desk jobs like mine, disability insurance seems like it could be semi-worthwhile.

Metalcat

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2022, 03:48:14 AM »
My wife is starting a position in the next few weeks where she will be serving in a contractor role as a physiotherapist.

We are both US citizens and in Canada on a temp work permit with the goal of attaining permanent residency and, eventually citizenship.

Can she invest in any kind of RRSP? There is not one offered through her work as she is on a contractor status, as are all the other physio's.


Semi-related, is there a way for her to acquire short term or long term disability insurance as a contractor? She recently had a fluke fall while hiking that is pushing back her start date. Since her job involves being physically able, unlike a lot of desk jobs like mine, disability insurance seems like it could be semi-worthwhile.

In Canada, our RRSP accounts have nothing to do with our employers, they're just accounts that we open at our financial institutions. So no employers offer them, contract or not. I'm not sure how they would work for a temp US worker though, but an account manager at the bank could probably give you some basic answers. If you do end up able to open one, then you will likely need some pretty expert US-Can accounting advice.

Disability insurance is important, but it's also critical to know how it usually plays out if she gets disabled. I can speak from experience that you can't count on a disability policy paying out for an own occupation policy. They usually settle for a fraction of what the policy is worth. If they don't settle, it's a miserable process.

Point being, don't bank on income replacement from an own occupation disability policy. But yes, get a policy. Physiotherapy requires the use of virtually every body part, that means many, many injuries or illnesses could take her out, and even a 30% settlement value is helpful if that happens, specially since the job itself is high risk for injury that could prevent her from doing that specific work.

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2022, 09:28:25 PM »
In Canada, our RRSP accounts have nothing to do with our employers, they're just accounts that we open at our financial institutions. So no employers offer them, contract or not. I'm not sure how they would work for a temp US worker though, but an account manager at the bank could probably give you some basic answers. If you do end up able to open one, then you will likely need some pretty expert US-Can accounting advice.

Well, sort of. There are employer-run plans that are essentially just RRSPs handled by a group policy at some institution like Canada Life. They often just offer segregated funds (kinda like mutual funds but in a wrapper that life insurance companies can offer). Fees will vary depending on the deal your employer has negotiated with the institution. If you leave the employer, you can usually transfer the funds to a personal RRSP held elsewhere. Obviously, this is different than things like locked-in retirement accounts and private pensions.

https://www.getsmarteraboutmoney.ca/plan-manage/retirement-planning/pension-savings-plans/group-rrsps/

In general, though, you are right that you don't have to go through your employer to use a RRSP. I would only contribute to one of these plans if the employer does a matching contribution. Otherwise you can get lower-fee ETFs at any decent DIY broker and roll your own RRSP.

The bigger question is whether the OP's wife is generating any RRSP room as a contractor. It usually takes T4 income of some kind.

(Edit: Note that cross-border issues are beyond my skill-set.)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2022, 09:34:13 PM by Mighty Eyebrows »

Metalcat

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2022, 03:33:35 AM »
In Canada, our RRSP accounts have nothing to do with our employers, they're just accounts that we open at our financial institutions. So no employers offer them, contract or not. I'm not sure how they would work for a temp US worker though, but an account manager at the bank could probably give you some basic answers. If you do end up able to open one, then you will likely need some pretty expert US-Can accounting advice.

Well, sort of. There are employer-run plans that are essentially just RRSPs handled by a group policy at some institution like Canada Life. They often just offer segregated funds (kinda like mutual funds but in a wrapper that life insurance companies can offer). Fees will vary depending on the deal your employer has negotiated with the institution. If you leave the employer, you can usually transfer the funds to a personal RRSP held elsewhere. Obviously, this is different than things like locked-in retirement accounts and private pensions.

https://www.getsmarteraboutmoney.ca/plan-manage/retirement-planning/pension-savings-plans/group-rrsps/

In general, though, you are right that you don't have to go through your employer to use a RRSP. I would only contribute to one of these plans if the employer does a matching contribution. Otherwise you can get lower-fee ETFs at any decent DIY broker and roll your own RRSP.

The bigger question is whether the OP's wife is generating any RRSP room as a contractor. It usually takes T4 income of some kind.

(Edit: Note that cross-border issues are beyond my skill-set.)

Ah. I didn't know about the employer-run plans, I would imagine that's how the RRSP matching companies do it; I've always wondered. I've never come across one, nor do I know anyone who has one, so at least in my circles, they're rare.

As for contractor work and RRSPs, I've only ever been a contractor since I graduated and always generated RRSP room as a result.

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2022, 02:32:16 PM »
As for contractor work and RRSPs, I've only ever been a contractor since I graduated and always generated RRSP room as a result.

Ah, yes. I forgot that self-employed income (for non-incorporated businesses) can generate RRSP room. I am curious, do you get a T4A as a contractor?



Metalcat

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2022, 06:40:35 PM »
As for contractor work and RRSPs, I've only ever been a contractor since I graduated and always generated RRSP room as a result.

Ah, yes. I forgot that self-employed income (for non-incorporated businesses) can generate RRSP room. I am curious, do you get a T4A as a contractor?

Yep, T4A.

kenmoremmm

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2022, 12:22:03 AM »
Thanks for the reminder on the "room". Question: is the "room" based on just your direct contributions or yours + employer? For me, I'm putting in 10% and employer is matching 7%.

For my wife (contractor): what is the "Vanguard" of The North? Low fees. Good selection of diversified funds equivalent to VTSAX?

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2022, 11:17:37 PM »
Thanks for the reminder on the "room". Question: is the "room" based on just your direct contributions or yours + employer? For me, I'm putting in 10% and employer is matching 7%.

For my wife (contractor): what is the "Vanguard" of The North? Low fees. Good selection of diversified funds equivalent to VTSAX?

Room is based on 18% of previous year's work income (except in special cases), but not passive income. The yearly notice of assessment for your taxes will give you a number based on what you reported to CRA. Yes, employer contributions count toward this total.

CRA has decent information on RRSPs:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/rrsps-related-plans/registered-retirement-savings-plan-rrsp.html

TaxTips is a good reference for any Canadian tax issues:
https://www.taxtips.ca/rrsp-rrif-tfsa.htm

Finiki (associated with the Financial Wisdom Forum) is also a good reference:
https://www.finiki.org/wiki/Registered_Retirement_Savings_Plan

Vanguard does not offer its mutual funds in Canada but does offer many good ETFs that are available at any DIY brokerage. The big banks each have a DIY brokerage but commissions vary. BMO Investorline offers free trading on many "all-in-one" ETFs including ones from Vanguard like VGRO and VBAL. Independent brokers like Questrade offer low(ish) fees on all ETF trading. Best to do your own research.

The Canadian Portfolio Manager blog by Justin Bender is a great resource for Canadian investing:
https://www.canadianportfoliomanagerblog.com/model-etf-portfolios/

kenmoremmm

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2022, 11:26:18 PM »
ugh. i forgot that the 18% was for the previous year's income, which for me was around $5k last year (per my tax return). i'm at $18k or so contributed thus far in 2022, so aside from stopping immediately, what do i need to do???

Metalcat

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2022, 04:21:00 AM »
ugh. i forgot that the 18% was for the previous year's income, which for me was around $5k last year (per my tax return). i'm at $18k or so contributed thus far in 2022, so aside from stopping immediately, what do i need to do???

Wait, so you've already opened an RRSP account? And have already over contributed??

Have you talked to anyone who understands how these cross border taxes work?  I would do that first.

Lews Therin

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2022, 05:20:13 AM »
ugh. i forgot that the 18% was for the previous year's income, which for me was around $5k last year (per my tax return). i'm at $18k or so contributed thus far in 2022, so aside from stopping immediately, what do i need to do???

Overpayments can cost 1% of the amount of the overpayment per month.

When you pull the money out, make sure you don't wothdraw it normally, or you'll get taxed on it again. There should be a form available from wherever you've invested it with to pull out overpayments.

kenmoremmm

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2022, 08:34:55 PM »
ugh. i forgot that the 18% was for the previous year's income, which for me was around $5k last year (per my tax return). i'm at $18k or so contributed thus far in 2022, so aside from stopping immediately, what do i need to do???

Wait, so you've already opened an RRSP account? And have already over contributed??

Have you talked to anyone who understands how these cross border taxes work?  I would do that first.

yeah, my brain isn't working well these days. a lot of juggling of things right now.

in any case, yes, i have a DCPP through work, which is treated as an RRSP in terms of 'room'. thus, it looks like i'm $13k overcontributed. sounds like i can stop contributions, and then the 1% penalty will terminate starting jan 1, 2023, when my 'room' increases. i'll need to be more cognizant in the future, obviously. my employer recently increased matching to 7%, so i went ahead with 10% contribution without thinking...

Metalcat

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2022, 08:52:28 PM »
ugh. i forgot that the 18% was for the previous year's income, which for me was around $5k last year (per my tax return). i'm at $18k or so contributed thus far in 2022, so aside from stopping immediately, what do i need to do???

Wait, so you've already opened an RRSP account? And have already over contributed??

Have you talked to anyone who understands how these cross border taxes work?  I would do that first.

yeah, my brain isn't working well these days. a lot of juggling of things right now.

in any case, yes, i have a DCPP through work, which is treated as an RRSP in terms of 'room'. thus, it looks like i'm $13k overcontributed. sounds like i can stop contributions, and then the 1% penalty will terminate starting jan 1, 2023, when my 'room' increases. i'll need to be more cognizant in the future, obviously. my employer recently increased matching to 7%, so i went ahead with 10% contribution without thinking...

Okay, but have you spoken to an accountant to figure out if your contributions will actually be tax deductible in the US?

I'm assuming you will be filing dual taxes, so you need to know if your RRSP contributions will actually work in your favour.

I've seen people get nailed on this very issue, very badly because most RRSP contributions are NOT tax deductible in the US, but some company sponsored RRSP group plans are evidently.

Again, get very good advice on this, it can get complicated.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 08:54:05 PM by Malcat »

kenmoremmm

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2022, 10:30:43 PM »
all my research said that RRSP = okay for US citizens and dual filing. no issue with last years returns.

TFSA and the other one = no go.

Metalcat

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2022, 05:49:36 AM »
all my research said that RRSP = okay for US citizens and dual filing. no issue with last years returns.

TFSA and the other one = no go.

It *can* be fine, but it can also be complicated, especially if you move back to the US.

https://www.goldinglawyers.com/rrsp-and-u-s-taxes-irs-tax-guide-to-registered-savings-plans/

https://serbinski.com/working-in-usa/rrsprrsp

I'm not an expert on this, but I do have colleagues who maintain US citizenship who have been absolutely nailed by RRSP tax issues, whether at the time of investing in them or at the time of withdrawal.

I've also looked into doing some cross border consulting in the US, and my accountant flat out told me he's not expert enough in the matter to handle my account if I do so.

So I'm just relaying what I've seen and heard from experts and people who have had unexpected negative impacts from not seeking expert enough guidance.

erp

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2022, 10:54:25 AM »
I'll echo Malcat on this one - there are a lot of random wrinkles to be aware of and 1% per month adds up really fast. It's not unreasonable to pay for this advice - the cross border stuff is weird and a lot of online blogs don't cover edge cases very well.

I got caught on the fact that my employer has both a pension plan and a (group) RRSP matching program a few years ago. The pension plan eats into the *following* year's contribution room, which I didn't know until I switched jobs and over contributed (I'm also not sure how common this is, but at least a few of our peer companies do something similar). Total cost to me ended up being north of $2,000, and I track these numbers pretty carefully.

I've never dealt with the dual filing (I'm Canadian and have never worked in the US) - but RRSP overcontributions are the sort of thing you want to fix ASAP.

kenmoremmm

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2022, 12:21:37 PM »
thanks, all, for the tips.

i just spoke with my cross border tax guy (who's awesome).

my DCPP contributions are fine (10% by me, 7% by company, so under the limit of 18%)

i have no RRSP contributions, and don't plan on doing any for simplicity sake unless the day comes when i renounce US citizenship (years away).

so, for now it sounds like i should be good to go.

treffpunkt

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2022, 03:10:04 PM »
The important distinction here is DCPPs vs group RRSPs. They're two entirely different things. OP has a DCPP so got lucky (Canadian taxes-wise, can't speak for American). In general:

Newcomers to Canada are permitted to contribute to a DCPP their first year in Canada.*

Newcomers to Canada are NOT permitted to contribute to a group RRSP their first year in Canada (because they have no contribution room).

*The amount they contribute in their first year will be deducted (pension adjustment amount) from the RRSP contribution limit that the CRA calculates for them, reducing their RRSP contribution room for their second year.

FLBiker

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Re: Contractor Employee - RRSP?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2022, 03:07:55 AM »
Interesting to learn about the difference between DCPP and RRSP.  I'm a US citizen with a group RRSP, and I didn't contribute for the first year because I didn't have room.

The other weird thing about RRSPs (to me) is that Jan and Feb contributions count towards the previous year.  I went over due to that, but I was within the $2000 allowable overage.  And like the OP, I have found a crossborder tax expert absolutely essential.