Author Topic: I guess today is the day  (Read 2638 times)

Metalcat

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I guess today is the day
« on: January 06, 2025, 08:09:13 AM »
Should be interesting to see what happens once Trudeau resigns...

I wonder if whoever takes over can pull off a Paul Martin and win while running on a campaign that shits all over the previous leader, thereby capitalizing on the national anger towards him.

We'll see, we'll see, but it shouldn't have come to this.

techwiz

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2025, 09:13:59 AM »
Parliament prorogued until march 24th while they figure out the next leader of the liberal.  I thought they needed to pass the next budget before the end of March?

sixwings

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2025, 02:20:53 PM »
Should be interesting to see what happens once Trudeau resigns...

I wonder if whoever takes over can pull off a Paul Martin and win while running on a campaign that shits all over the previous leader, thereby capitalizing on the national anger towards him.

We'll see, we'll see, but it shouldn't have come to this.

I think the entire liberal party is cooked, it might help stem some losses, maybe, but I think a conservative majority is pretty baked at this point.

Metalcat

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2025, 02:42:06 PM »
Should be interesting to see what happens once Trudeau resigns...

I wonder if whoever takes over can pull off a Paul Martin and win while running on a campaign that shits all over the previous leader, thereby capitalizing on the national anger towards him.

We'll see, we'll see, but it shouldn't have come to this.

I think the entire liberal party is cooked, it might help stem some losses, maybe, but I think a conservative majority is pretty baked at this point.

Yeah, that's what I figure, especially since they don't have an economic superstar, defacto leader to take over. Also, Martin didn't last very long, so in the end it didn't matter.

cowman

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2025, 04:56:06 PM »
(shoulder shrug emoji)

I am sure if you looked back through my posts,you would see I am a right wing,communist lunatic.

The nutjob who is going to be the most powerful person in the free world(Given a choice....... many,many people have risked(are risking)their lives to be here(or there).

He has openly mocked our "leader"...

"HE"(king Justin) has decided that to be a  limp dick will look out for us for the next 80 days (plus however long it takes for an election)......

I am sure this will end well!!!!!!


PS fuck those assholes out west who export what the Americans want(and support us,who live  east of the Saskatchewan)


ymmv.....


[MOD NOTE: Maybe turn it down just a little here.  I get that you're frustrated, but I'm not sure why you're taking it out right here at the people in this thread.]
« Last Edit: January 07, 2025, 09:09:59 AM by FrugalToque »

BNgarden

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2025, 05:14:16 PM »
While we await news of what process might be followed and who shows up to contest leadership...

A little AB humour:
https://lisayoung.substack.com/p/postcard-from-alberta

(EDITED to remove reference to liking Anand, as I'm reading a bit more -- and I won't seek to have a vote in this ridiculously corruptible and manipulable leadership vote), but who knows if there's anyone willing to be at the helm for the upcoming social / oligarch / foreign-influenced media frenzy)...  Maybe, just maybe Trump's 'shock and awe' from day one will affect Canadians' intentions?  Maybe, just maybe the Liberals will get competent, focused policy and messages on major fronts of concern?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2025, 03:29:14 PM by BNgarden »

FrugalToque

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2025, 09:14:54 AM »
It's a harsh reality because every person who "hates Trudeau" that I've talked to is complaining about things that had nothing to do with him.


a) Worldwide inflation - even though Canada has had inflation relatively well in control and it had nothing to do with his government's spending
b) Masking/vaccines - 99% of the vaccine/mask/restaurant/school closure rules were provincial (i.e. Doug Ford in Ontario). The feds did a mutual border-vaccine rule with the U.S. and that was about it.
c) SNC Lavalin - okay, that was kinda shitty, but a lot of countries require shifty bribery shit and I really don't feel like this is the giant win you think it is
d) Commie! Marxist! Socialist! - the person usually can't define those words or give a single coherent example
e) Woke!!! - that means being nice to people. If you object to "woke", you just want to be a bigot, a racist, a sexist or a jerk in general


But, yeah, the incoherent hate from the U.S. has come here strongly enough that I don't think we can avoid a Poilievre gov't, no matter how stupid and empty he is.


Toque.


sixwings

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2025, 11:24:27 AM »
It's a harsh reality because every person who "hates Trudeau" that I've talked to is complaining about things that had nothing to do with him.


a) Worldwide inflation - even though Canada has had inflation relatively well in control and it had nothing to do with his government's spending
b) Masking/vaccines - 99% of the vaccine/mask/restaurant/school closure rules were provincial (i.e. Doug Ford in Ontario). The feds did a mutual border-vaccine rule with the U.S. and that was about it.
c) SNC Lavalin - okay, that was kinda shitty, but a lot of countries require shifty bribery shit and I really don't feel like this is the giant win you think it is
d) Commie! Marxist! Socialist! - the person usually can't define those words or give a single coherent example
e) Woke!!! - that means being nice to people. If you object to "woke", you just want to be a bigot, a racist, a sexist or a jerk in general


But, yeah, the incoherent hate from the U.S. has come here strongly enough that I don't think we can avoid a Poilievre gov't, no matter how stupid and empty he is.


Toque.

Yeah I agree, I think Trudeau and the liberal government hasn't been terrible, probably quite a middling government. But 10 years of grievances add up, that's a LONG time for anyone to be prime minister. I don't think PP is going to be good, at all. Most people can't actually describe what they like except for things like "ending woke" or that he isn't Trudeau.

The did really botch the execution of the increases in immigration. The problem they were trying to solve is a very real problem, Canada has a demographics problem and immigration and incentives to have children is the only ways to solve that problem, but there was no coordination with the provinces, the way they did it made it very difficult to track, it was a big increase all at once which put strain on housing, etc. I think in 30 years we'll probably think increasing immigration was a good move in the broader context of the economy, but the execution of it right now I think has been problematic. I think how problematic is it has been largely subject to a lot of hyperbole and isn't as big a problem as people think it is, but anti-immigrant proganda is very much the rage right now.

The problem is that the cons want to cut immigration and deport a lot of the people who came in, which will make our demographic problem in 30 years much worse, while maybe providing some short term relief (but probably not because I don't think the immigration increases are the actual root of the housing and affordability issues, it's just a convenient scapegoat).

Kmp2

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2025, 11:48:30 AM »

A little AB humour:
https://lisayoung.substack.com/p/postcard-from-alberta


Man - I love Lisa Young - we need another one of her flowcharts for the upcoming Liberal leadership race!

Many thanks for the reasoned takes on this thread - it's a stark difference from the playground talk yesterday where everyone's 'happy Trudeau is gone, but he took all our money first' - takes.

I don't know how we solve today's complex problems (housing, demographics/boomer retirements, healthcare etc.) with the scapegoating/misinfo/disinfo that's going around right now. These problems take time and won't be solved with a platform that is simply axing the carbon tax. I guess things get worse before they get better, here's hoping the conservative majority is only one term.


FrugalToque

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2025, 12:42:02 PM »
Yeah I agree, I think Trudeau and the liberal government hasn't been terrible, probably quite a middling government. But 10 years of grievances add up, that's a LONG time for anyone to be prime minister. I don't think PP is going to be good, at all. Most people can't actually describe what they like except for things like "ending woke" or that he isn't Trudeau.

The did really botch the execution of the increases in immigration. The problem they were trying to solve is a very real problem, Canada has a demographics problem and immigration and incentives to have children is the only ways to solve that problem, but there was no coordination with the provinces, the way they did it made it very difficult to track, it was a big increase all at once which put strain on housing, etc. I think in 30 years we'll probably think increasing immigration was a good move in the broader context of the economy, but the execution of it right now I think has been problematic. I think how problematic is it has been largely subject to a lot of hyperbole and isn't as big a problem as people think it is, but anti-immigrant proganda is very much the rage right now.

The problem is that the cons want to cut immigration and deport a lot of the people who came in, which will make our demographic problem in 30 years much worse, while maybe providing some short term relief (but probably not because I don't think the immigration increases are the actual root of the housing and affordability issues, it's just a convenient scapegoat).


I've always regarded him a "middle of the road, miliquetoast, semi-corporate" politician.


He did dental care and a few other things because the NDP dragged it out of him, and he acted like a genuine human being on a number of occasions that made me glad he was in charge at the time.


Immigration is such a weird issue.  We need those people to maintain the economy the way we have it configured, but the housing issue was basically under provincial control. And the Premiers -especially Ford in Ontario - took the money to build houses, spent none of it, built no houses, and then blamed Trudeau for the housing crisis.  All the while, the Real Estate Bros. are cashing in on the rising prices.  Trudeau's major mistake was not forcing the construction of those houses, trusting Ford et all to do something against their Conservative donors.


But yes, 10 years of being in government eventually adds up.

sixwings

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2025, 02:00:41 PM »
Yeah that's a really good example of where they failed in the execution of what was a solution to a long term problem that Canada faces. And I think your capture of how to describe Trudeau and the libs has been pretty spot on. I don't think he should be getting the hate he gets. And now we get a big conservative majority...

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2025, 08:24:47 AM »
I'm not a Trudeau lover or hater. He had a long run in power. His government did some good things and did some bad things. If they wanted to rule for longer they really had to step up their game in a number of key files and they couldn't. I don't really see a way for a new Liberal leader to change the landscape enough that the Conservatives don't get elected in 2025. They might stave off an epic defeat though. Hopefully PP can come up with an effective plan for the country that is more detailed than his oft repeated 3 phrase slogan. The Devil is in the details.

One fun thing with the change of ruling parties will be seeing the "F**K Poilievre" & "FreeDUMB!!" signs on the back of EVs and hybrids across Canada. ;-)

GuitarStv

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2025, 10:31:36 AM »
One fun thing with the change of ruling parties will be seeing the "F**K Poilievre" & "FreeDUMB!!" signs on the back of EVs and hybrids across Canada. ;-)

I don't believe that you'll be seeing 'Fuck Poilievre' signs.  (At least I sincerely hope not.)  I'm expecting that this sort of rhetoric is largely a right wing phenomenon, as the right has usually been better at attracting/focusing hatred.

afulldeck

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2025, 12:24:06 PM »
I'm not a Trudeau lover or hater. He had a long run in power. His government did some good things and did some bad things.

His "bad" definitely out performed the "good".
Trudeau has proven to be an ineffective manager of the Government of Canada. Under his leadership, most federal departments have overspent with little to show in terms of positive outcomes. Rife with scandals,  illogical regulations, and wasted $$$. And in a time when the country needed decisive leadership, he failed to deliver, stepped aside leaving Canada adrift until May ---- in its moment of need. He should have stepped aside 18 months ago, but his ego prevented him from doing so. Even in his resignation speech, he blamed his party, and the citizen for not getting behind him. His ego know no bounds.

As a politician, Trudeau was more of an idealist than a pragmatist. He seemed to believe that Canadians should think as he does and adopt his beliefs, even when public sentiment disagreed with his position. His inability to embrace pragmatism, or to grasp what the common Canadian is feeling, has shown his true nature. One that has hindered Canada to move forward economically, leaving the country stagnating--- no strike that--- falling behind the US rapidly. I think history will show he was the worst PM for this country. He certainly added more debt than all previous PM's combined.






ChpBstrd

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2025, 01:38:06 PM »
Right wingers have won in the U.S, are winning in Europe, and will win in Canada.

It's as if some great cultural force came along and swept up the entire democratic world.

Spoiler: show
It was the conservative-owned internet.

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2025, 02:54:13 PM »
I don't believe that you'll be seeing 'Fuck Poilievre' signs.  (At least I sincerely hope not.)  I'm expecting that this sort of rhetoric is largely a right wing phenomenon, as the right has usually been better at attracting/focusing hatred.

Us Commie/Liberal/Green Whack Jobs may not have the deep built in hatred mode, but I hope we've still got a sense of humour. I would totally rock a F**K PP decal for laughs and I would be sad if there was not an EV convoy protest [sans honking because we are not assholes] in Ottawa when the Conservatives fail to offer up a reasonable climate action plan.


Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2025, 03:08:30 PM »
His "bad" definitely out performed the "good".

I'd be prepared to judge JT more harshly if any of the other party leaders that were on offer provided a credible reason for me to believe they would have done a better job. And to be fair Canadians were provided 3 opportunities not to select JT as Prime Minister and they kept picking him.

During the last Conservative leadership race one candidate actually sounded like an adult who would make a solid PM and I could vote for, but naturally he had no chance at actually winning the contest. I'm hopeful the Liberals make a better choice in this upcoming leadership contest or at least the next one after this likely electoral defeat. We certainly deserve better options for party leaders than we have been offered lately.

afulldeck

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2025, 07:53:14 AM »
His "bad" definitely out performed the "good".

I'd be prepared to judge JT more harshly if any of the other party leaders that were on offer provided a credible reason for me to believe they would have done a better job.

I believe what your saying is illogical. You should judge JT on his performance alone. Evaluating Justin Trudeau's performance shouldn't hinge on whether other party leaders were better alternatives. He was in charge, he is solely responsible for the mess he has made of this country finances and economy, and the state he is leaving it in.  His performance can be assessed on its own merits or failures, regardless of the opposition's competence.

Further, its only your guess or gut feel that others would have done a better or worse job. The point is, JT has done very little good, much bad. His record will stand as the PM adding more debt than all other PM's combine leaving very little wiggle room in the crises that we are now facing.

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2025, 07:59:42 AM »
I believe what your saying is illogical.

It's not illogical to feel better about a situation when you think you had the best option in place from the one's presented to you. Would I prefer it if the leaders of the main parties were better? 100%. If I had a way to make that happen I would. It's confounding that in a country of ~40M people this is the best we can muster.

I have no faith that having a Conservative Gov't in place during COVID would not have resulted in far more deaths and economic damage due their voter's unfortunate views. So if I had to run the experiment over again I'd still take JT given the same options.

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2025, 08:09:45 AM »
Right wingers have won in the U.S, are winning in Europe, and will win in Canada.

The real trend is incumbents have been on a losing streak around the world. Where the incumbents were right wingers they've tended to lose as in the recent UK elections. You are correct the Conservatives are likely to win the next Canadian election, but only because they've been out of power so long the memory of what that was like has faded from the political consciousness of Canadians and they weren't in power when inflation was sweeping global economies. We've had recent provincial elections were leftie parties won and indeed rec'd a crushing majority an ousting incumbent Conservative gov't despite the Liberal brand being at an all time low in the country due to JT's unpopularity.

afulldeck

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2025, 08:19:34 AM »
I believe what your saying is illogical.

It's not illogical to feel better about a situation when you think you had the best option in place from the one's presented to you. Would I prefer it if the leaders of the main parties were better? 100%. If I had a way to make that happen I would. It's confounding that in a country of ~40M people this is the best we can muster.

I have no faith that having a Conservative Gov't in place during COVID would not have resulted in far more deaths and economic damage due their voter's unfortunate views. So if I had to run the experiment over again I'd still take JT given the same options.

feeling good, has nothing to do with logic. Faith is also not logic. You have no proof Cons would have been worse or better wrt Covid. Bottom line, we do know that the liberals loss billions of dollars over the COVID period, implemented programs that were abused by many, ignored the technical science and experts on these programs.

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2025, 08:32:32 AM »
You have no proof Cons would have been worse or better wrt Covid.

It's impossible to prove a counterfactual. We make political choices based on what we believe and what we feel better about. As I noted if I had to do it over again and run through COVID a second time with the same political options I'd pick JT and his crew despite wishing we had better political options.

The good news for JT haters is that it seems assured that the Conservatives will win the next election and we'll get to see how well their 3 line slogans translate into policy action and results. It's easy to be in opposition and not have to actually do anything, but repeat slogans and populate your social media channels.

GuitarStv

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2025, 08:35:36 AM »
You have no proof Cons would have been worse or better wrt Covid.

It's impossible to prove a counterfactual. We make political choices based on what we believe and what we feel better about. As I noted if I had to do it over again and run through COVID a second time with the same political options I'd pick JT and his crew despite wishing we had better political options.

The good news for JT haters is that it seems assured that the Conservatives will win the next election and we'll get to see how well their 3 line slogans translate into policy action and results. It's easy to be in opposition and not have to actually do anything, but repeat slogans and populate your social media channels.

I'd also argue that the actions (and comments) of many conservative politicians during covid really, really made me glad they weren't in power federally.

afulldeck

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2025, 08:43:34 AM »
You have no proof Cons would have been worse or better wrt Covid.

It's impossible to prove a counterfactual.

Exactly my point. Every election I've been faced with the same problem, even though I have voted both red and blue.  Personally, there is no electable party that shares my views of small government and no paternalistic regulations. Current Canadian government is a bloated mess.  The closest I get is the cons, but they come with their type of mud.....

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2025, 08:57:06 AM »
I'd also argue that the actions (and comments) of many conservative politicians during covid really, really made me glad they weren't in power federally.

100%.

rocketpj

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2025, 09:40:53 AM »
I'd also argue that the actions (and comments) of many conservative politicians during covid really, really made me glad they weren't in power federally.

Worth noting that the US had more than double the number of deaths per million (3544 vs 1,424), at least partially due to the decisions made by conservative politicians in many US states.  Given how PP was quick to embrace the submoronic/astroturfed 'trucker' convoy, we can be sure he'd have worked hard to beat those numbers.

Whoever is running against PP in the next election, I really hope they bring some careful planning and thought about how to respond to his cavalier, brutely simplistic three word answers to every issue. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2025, 09:51:11 AM »
It will be interesting to have the BQ as official opposition.

PoutineLover

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2025, 11:42:24 AM »
I watched the poilieve/peterson interview (most of it, switched to reading the transcript at the end because I can't stand either of them) and I'm really not looking forward to this next chapter.

I hope for Canada's sake it's a minority government because he has no real solutions, only complaints and soundbites.

The breakdown of support for the liberals and left is unfortunate, because childcare, climate change, dental care and pharma care are all important and will help many, but people don't seem to care.

Never mind that PPs policies won't actually deliver cheaper housing or groceries, but they will hurt LGBT people, women, minorities and the climate. Especially with Trump making threats to our sovereignty, now is not the time to elect a power hungry right wing populist.



AJDZee

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2025, 12:03:25 PM »
I watched the poilieve/peterson interview (most of it, switched to reading the transcript at the end because I can't stand either of them) and I'm really not looking forward to this next chapter.

I hope for Canada's sake it's a minority government because he has no real solutions, only complaints and soundbites.

The breakdown of support for the liberals and left is unfortunate, because childcare, climate change, dental care and pharma care are all important and will help many, but people don't seem to care.

Never mind that PPs policies won't actually deliver cheaper housing or groceries, but they will hurt LGBT people, women, minorities and the climate. Especially with Trump making threats to our sovereignty, now is not the time to elect a power hungry right wing populist.

I haven't brought myself to watch that interview yet, but I will eventually - I like your suggestion of reading the transcript!

But I'm curious why you say PP 'will hurt LGBT, women and minorities'... what specifically did he say or his policies that made you think this and state it so factually?

If I'm being honest, I'm just getting exhausted with people speaking in hyperbole and all the rhetoric coming from 'both sides'.
I'm tired of one side saying the other guy is the most evil thing and has to be defeated at all costs (both sides are doing this)

I'm honestly trying to learn the details of his policies and priorities, but he has given very little detail so far since we haven't actually been in an election/campaign cycle officially.

(agreed hurting the climate is obvious, "axe the tax" and I've heard no enviro-centric policy or solution from him)

PoutineLover

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2025, 12:56:44 PM »
I watched the poilieve/peterson interview (most of it, switched to reading the transcript at the end because I can't stand either of them) and I'm really not looking forward to this next chapter.

I hope for Canada's sake it's a minority government because he has no real solutions, only complaints and soundbites.

The breakdown of support for the liberals and left is unfortunate, because childcare, climate change, dental care and pharma care are all important and will help many, but people don't seem to care.

Never mind that PPs policies won't actually deliver cheaper housing or groceries, but they will hurt LGBT people, women, minorities and the climate. Especially with Trump making threats to our sovereignty, now is not the time to elect a power hungry right wing populist.

I haven't brought myself to watch that interview yet, but I will eventually - I like your suggestion of reading the transcript!

But I'm curious why you say PP 'will hurt LGBT, women and minorities'... what specifically did he say or his policies that made you think this and state it so factually?

If I'm being honest, I'm just getting exhausted with people speaking in hyperbole and all the rhetoric coming from 'both sides'.
I'm tired of one side saying the other guy is the most evil thing and has to be defeated at all costs (both sides are doing this)

I'm honestly trying to learn the details of his policies and priorities, but he has given very little detail so far since we haven't actually been in an election/campaign cycle officially.

(agreed hurting the climate is obvious, "axe the tax" and I've heard no enviro-centric policy or solution from him)


I said that because he voted against gay marriage, has said he doesn't think trans people should have access to facilities that match their gender presentation, supports pregnancy crisis centres that spread misinformation about abortion, used misogynistic tags to promote his videos, courts support of far right extremists and white nationalists, and generally empowers his supporters to spread hateful messages about immigrants, LGBT people and women's rights.

He has said and implied many times and in many ways over his career that he does not and would not stand up for the rights of the groups I mentioned.

rocketpj

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2025, 01:06:06 PM »
I deeply dislike PP, but neither was I a fan of Trudeau.  I thought the Liberals brought in some good programs and policies*, but also had their share of bungles.  Trudeau should have left a year ago and given a successor time to build a campaign and differentiate themself from his legacy.

I worry that PP will follow in other Conservative government's footsteps and kick the Indigenous reconciliation can further down the road in hopes it will go away.  There is a lot of work to be done on that file and I doubt the CPC is capable of taking that on.

*As always, the only time anyone - Liberal or Conservative - has ever brought in the good stuff is when they have a minority government and need support from other parties (usually the NDP) to pass anything.  EI, CPP, Canada Health Act, Dental Plan, Child Care, even the invention of Peacekeeping all happened in Minority governments.

sixwings

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2025, 01:42:33 PM »
Trudeau definitely should have read the room last summer and stepped down, another bungle from him for sure. I feel like the last couple of years he has moved from one bungle to the next and theres a fair bit of recency bias there. Sometimes I wonder if it's a mental health thing, high pressure PM with muptiple crisis while going through a divorce. I hope he can take some time to look after himself.

CPC don't care about reconciliation, it's not that they kick the can down the road, they actively don't believe it's necessary or needed, and many don't think there was ever a problem with what Canada did, and will probably make it harder for future governments to move that forward. It's pretty much a dead issue federally under the CPC. Which is really a problem and very shitty.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2025, 01:53:21 PM by sixwings »

GuitarStv

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2025, 01:47:55 PM »
(agreed hurting the climate is obvious, "axe the tax" and I've heard no enviro-centric policy or solution from him)

My understanding is that the conservative party doesn't believe in climate change (or if they do, don't believe in trying to solve or mitigate it).  It would be surprising to me to hear any climate related policy that isn't simple greenwashing of something totally ineffective.

afulldeck

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2025, 09:12:14 AM »
(agreed hurting the climate is obvious, "axe the tax" and I've heard no enviro-centric policy or solution from him)

My understanding is that the conservative party doesn't believe in climate change (or if they do, don't believe in trying to solve or mitigate it).  It would be surprising to me to hear any climate related policy that isn't simple greenwashing of something totally ineffective.

You understand incorrectly. The cons do believe in climate change, but their approach to solving the problem is more action oriented. The conservatives have outlined its approach to climate change, focusing on technological innovation and proper energy sector development. How does a country that has only 1.6% of the world's carbon emissions punch above its belt without killing the economy---by helping other countries with a higher carbon output lowers theirs. It helps the world and the global emission to a better place.  Key elements of their platform include:

Repealing the Carbon Tax: arguing that it increases living costs without effectively reducing emissions, its simply bureaucracy.
Promoting Technological Solutions: The party emphasizes investment in technologies such as carbon capture and storage to address emissions, aiming to reduce carbon output through innovation rather than taxation.
Expanding Energy Production: Plans include increasing domestic energy production by approving projects like the Energy East pipeline and reducing regulatory barriers, with the goal of enhancing energy independence and economic growth, while attempting to lower world wide carbon by moving other countries off of coal and methane. (If executed could reduce the worlds carbon use by 15%.
Electric Vehicle Production: The platform supports boosting electric vehicle manufacturing by facilitating the mining of essential minerals such as lithium, cobalt, and copper, necessary for EV batteries.

GuitarStv

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2025, 01:21:18 PM »
Hahahahahahaha . . . yeah.  Thank you, you've outlined exactly what I see.

- Get rid of carbon tax.  Why should we try to disincentivize use of greenhouse gas emitting stuff?  I mean, it was proposed when O'Toole was running as a sensible conservative way to approach the problem . . . but I guess that being conservative has fundamentally changed since then.
- Carbon capture has never been proven a viable technology, so this is like saying we're waiting for hydrogen cars to catch on.
- Build pipelines to pump more oil to solve climate change.  Makes sense to me.  Wait.  No it doesn't.  :/
- MOAR MINING!  This is the only one that can maybe/kinda fall onto a slightly green side of things . . . in that EVs are marginally better than ICE for climate related problems.  But of course, the real problem is too many personal automobiles on the road.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty shit as a 'plan'.  In that it's not a plan at all.  And forgive me if I don't feel a lot of trust for the party that refused to add the text "Climate change is real" to their 2021 CPC policy book, where only one in three Conservative voters accept that "Climate change is a fact and is mostly caused by human activities"(https://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/2024.03.25_Carbon_Tax_crosstables.pdf).

FrugalToque

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2025, 06:27:10 PM »
His "bad" definitely out performed the "good".
Trudeau has proven to be an ineffective manager of the Government of Canada. Under his leadership, most federal departments have overspent with little to show in terms of positive outcomes. Rife with scandals,  illogical regulations, and wasted $$$. And in a time when the country needed decisive leadership, he failed to deliver, stepped aside leaving Canada adrift until May ---- in its moment of need. He should have stepped aside 18 months ago, but his ego prevented him from doing so. Even in his resignation speech, he blamed his party, and the citizen for not getting behind him. His ego know no bounds.

As a politician, Trudeau was more of an idealist than a pragmatist. He seemed to believe that Canadians should think as he does and adopt his beliefs, even when public sentiment disagreed with his position. His inability to embrace pragmatism, or to grasp what the common Canadian is feeling, has shown his true nature. One that has hindered Canada to move forward economically, leaving the country stagnating--- no strike that--- falling behind the US rapidly. I think history will show he was the worst PM for this country. He certainly added more debt than all previous PM's combined.


This epitomises lot of the right wing talk I see on FB, Twitter and whatnot.
You've made very few factual points but distributed a lot of adjectives.


Even the point you made - about the economy/country stagnating - is false.
Canada has the second lowest inflation in the G7: https://www.google.com/search?q=inflation+in+g7+countries&rlz=1C1FKPE_enCA978CA978&oq=inflation+in+g7+countries
Canada has the strongest predicted economy in 2025 in the G7:  https://www.google.com/search?q=canada+best+in+g7+prediction+2025


These are all things you can easily look up but your Facebook/Discord/Whatever group that constantly posts FUCK TRUDEAU memes doesn't bother.


Even on debt, while accurate, is ignoring the fact that we had to keep people from starving when the provincially dictated health care rules came into force during COVID.  That was the right thing to do, the thing every country did, and it cost money.
https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/government-debt


But it's coming back down now.


Toque.


FrugalToque

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2025, 06:36:57 PM »
You understand incorrectly. The cons do believe in climate change, but their approach to solving the problem is more action oriented. The conservatives have outlined its approach to climate change, focusing on technological innovation and proper energy sector development. How does a country that has only 1.6% of the world's carbon emissions punch above its belt without killing the economy---by helping other countries with a higher carbon output lowers theirs. It helps the world and the global emission to a better place.  Key elements of their platform include:

Repealing the Carbon Tax: arguing that it increases living costs without effectively reducing emissions, its simply bureaucracy.
Promoting Technological Solutions: The party emphasizes investment in technologies such as carbon capture and storage to address emissions, aiming to reduce carbon output through innovation rather than taxation.
Expanding Energy Production: Plans include increasing domestic energy production by approving projects like the Energy East pipeline and reducing regulatory barriers, with the goal of enhancing energy independence and economic growth, while attempting to lower world wide carbon by moving other countries off of coal and methane. (If executed could reduce the worlds carbon use by 15%.
Electric Vehicle Production: The platform supports boosting electric vehicle manufacturing by facilitating the mining of essential minerals such as lithium, cobalt, and copper, necessary for EV batteries.


The Carbon Tax is an effective, *conservative*, market-based approach to reducing Carbon production.  Everyone gets a rebate and then spends their rebate as they see fit, incentivising people to choose lower carbon products.  It was championed by Stephen Harper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebQawE65ATU


There were a bunch of other methods for fostering innovation.  But the Premiers decided to throw those out, on purpose, so that the carbon tax would come into effect as a backstop, so they could then wave "Fuck Trudeau" sings around.  It was juvenile and ignorant, but people are stupid and fell for it, so we had a Convoy full of ignorance and there we are.


Carbon Capture is expensive, probably can not work and could only be used on a fraction of carbon emissions.
https://davidsuzuki.org/what-you-can-do/why-carbon-capture-and-storage-is-not-a-real-climate-solution/


The Conservative party platform only mentions "climate change" once, and it does that to say "we won't do anything about it"
https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/23175001/990863517f7a575.pdf
Quote
34. Carbon Tax We believe that there should be no federally imposed carbon taxes or cap and trade systems on either the provinces and territories or on the citizens of Canada. The provinces and territories should be free to develop their own climate change policies, without federal interference or federal penalties or incentives

FrugalToque

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2025, 06:54:23 PM »
You have no proof Cons would have been worse or better wrt Covid.

It's impossible to prove a counterfactual. We make political choices based on what we believe and what we feel better about. As I noted if I had to do it over again and run through COVID a second time with the same political options I'd pick JT and his crew despite wishing we had better political options.

The good news for JT haters is that it seems assured that the Conservatives will win the next election and we'll get to see how well their 3 line slogans translate into policy action and results. It's easy to be in opposition and not have to actually do anything, but repeat slogans and populate your social media channels.

I'd also argue that the actions (and comments) of many conservative politicians during covid really, really made me glad they weren't in power federally.
Yeah.

When Poilievre came out and said "Tax cuts" for the problem of provincially mandated shutdowns of a large number of facilities that employed low income people?
That sounded insane.

You're on minimum wage, you barely pay any taxes anyway, and this guy is going to offer tax cuts?
How would that help.

Prairie Moustache

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2025, 10:43:59 PM »
You understand incorrectly. The cons do believe in climate change, but their approach to solving the problem is more action oriented. The conservatives have outlined its approach to climate change, focusing on technological innovation and proper energy sector development. How does a country that has only 1.6% of the world's carbon emissions punch above its belt without killing the economy---by helping other countries with a higher carbon output lowers theirs. It helps the world and the global emission to a better place.  Key elements of their platform include:

Repealing the Carbon Tax: arguing that it increases living costs without effectively reducing emissions, its simply bureaucracy.
Promoting Technological Solutions: The party emphasizes investment in technologies such as carbon capture and storage to address emissions, aiming to reduce carbon output through innovation rather than taxation.
Expanding Energy Production: Plans include increasing domestic energy production by approving projects like the Energy East pipeline and reducing regulatory barriers, with the goal of enhancing energy independence and economic growth, while attempting to lower world wide carbon by moving other countries off of coal and methane. (If executed could reduce the worlds carbon use by 15%.
Electric Vehicle Production: The platform supports boosting electric vehicle manufacturing by facilitating the mining of essential minerals such as lithium, cobalt, and copper, necessary for EV batteries.


The Carbon Tax is an effective, *conservative*, market-based approach to reducing Carbon production.  Everyone gets a rebate and then spends their rebate as they see fit, incentivising people to choose lower carbon products.  It was championed by Stephen Harper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebQawE65ATU


There were a bunch of other methods for fostering innovation.  But the Premiers decided to throw those out, on purpose, so that the carbon tax would come into effect as a backstop, so they could then wave "Fuck Trudeau" sings around.  It was juvenile and ignorant, but people are stupid and fell for it, so we had a Convoy full of ignorance and there we are.


Carbon Capture is expensive, probably can not work and could only be used on a fraction of carbon emissions.
https://davidsuzuki.org/what-you-can-do/why-carbon-capture-and-storage-is-not-a-real-climate-solution/


The Conservative party platform only mentions "climate change" once, and it does that to say "we won't do anything about it"
https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/23175001/990863517f7a575.pdf
Quote
34. Carbon Tax We believe that there should be no federally imposed carbon taxes or cap and trade systems on either the provinces and territories or on the citizens of Canada. The provinces and territories should be free to develop their own climate change policies, without federal interference or federal penalties or incentives

Something that blows my mind that isn't talked about more by carbon tax proponents - specifically BC's carbon tax - is that due to the carbon tax income tax rates are lower than they otherwise would be. My wife and I moved to BC three years ago from Saskatchewan and were completely oblivious to this fact. Everyone in the prairies talks about how expensive BC is. Yes, if you buy a house in the Lower Mainland or Victoria. We live in the Interior and pay ~$6000 less PER YEAR in income tax than we did in SK. We used the difference to put triple pane windows in our house and had extra money to buy a hybrid. I explained this to my prairie father who is staunchly against carbon taxes and believes BC is the land of "Bring Cash" and pixie dust. He had no response.

Scott Moe does not want his populace to know this, and at this point everyone is so polarized it doesn't matter unfortunately.

afulldeck

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2025, 01:25:51 PM »
His "bad" definitely out performed the "good".
Trudeau has proven to be an ineffective manager of the Government of Canada. Under his leadership, most federal departments have overspent with little to show in terms of positive outcomes. Rife with scandals,  illogical regulations, and wasted $$$. And in a time when the country needed decisive leadership, he failed to deliver, stepped aside leaving Canada adrift until May ---- in its moment of need. He should have stepped aside 18 months ago, but his ego prevented him from doing so. Even in his resignation speech, he blamed his party, and the citizen for not getting behind him. His ego know no bounds.

As a politician, Trudeau was more of an idealist than a pragmatist. He seemed to believe that Canadians should think as he does and adopt his beliefs, even when public sentiment disagreed with his position. His inability to embrace pragmatism, or to grasp what the common Canadian is feeling, has shown his true nature. One that has hindered Canada to move forward economically, leaving the country stagnating--- no strike that--- falling behind the US rapidly. I think history will show he was the worst PM for this country. He certainly added more debt than all previous PM's combined.


This epitomises lot of the right wing talk I see on FB, Twitter and whatnot.
You've made very few factual points but distributed a lot of adjectives.


Even the point you made - about the economy/country stagnating - is false.
Canada has the second lowest inflation in the G7: https://www.google.com/search?q=inflation+in+g7+countries&rlz=1C1FKPE_enCA978CA978&oq=inflation+in+g7+countries
Canada has the strongest predicted economy in 2025 in the G7:  https://www.google.com/search?q=canada+best+in+g7+prediction+2025

These are all things you can easily look up but your Facebook/Discord/Whatever group that constantly posts FUCK TRUDEAU memes doesn't bother.

Even on debt, while accurate, is ignoring the fact that we had to keep people from starving when the provincially dictated health care rules came into force during COVID.  That was the right thing to do, the thing every country did, and it cost money.
https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/government-debt


But it's coming back down now.


Toque.

Toque, You should read what I wrote, not what you think or wish I wrote. I didn't say anything about inflation. "...Rife with scandals,  illogical regulations, and wasted $$$...." All are provable facts.


You will believe what you want. But the facts are on my side. Show me where I'm wrong. This country is stagnating fast. Its only the GoC bureaucracy that doesn't see the economic down fall. They believe in their own malarky.  They live on taxes from others hard work. Just read through these.....

https://economics.td.com/ca-falling-behind-standard-of-living-curve
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-gdp-per-capita-rich-1.7318989
https://financialpost.com/news/canada-standard-of-living-faces-worst-decline-40-years
https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/why-trudeau-s-policies-fell-short-leaving-canada-s-economy-in-crisis/ar-BB1r8W5c?ocid=BingNewsSerp

The list of bad news is endless. Standard of living is falling. As a business guy, I'm seeing fellow CCPCs of 20 years exiting out of business. Its a mess out there...
« Last Edit: January 11, 2025, 01:29:45 PM by afulldeck »

FrugalToque

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2025, 09:48:57 AM »
His "bad" definitely out performed the "good".
Trudeau has proven to be an ineffective manager of the Government of Canada. Under his leadership, most federal departments have overspent with little to show in terms of positive outcomes. Rife with scandals,  illogical regulations, and wasted $$$. And in a time when the country needed decisive leadership, he failed to deliver, stepped aside leaving Canada adrift until May ---- in its moment of need. He should have stepped aside 18 months ago, but his ego prevented him from doing so. Even in his resignation speech, he blamed his party, and the citizen for not getting behind him. His ego know no bounds.

As a politician, Trudeau was more of an idealist than a pragmatist. He seemed to believe that Canadians should think as he does and adopt his beliefs, even when public sentiment disagreed with his position. His inability to embrace pragmatism, or to grasp what the common Canadian is feeling, has shown his true nature. One that has hindered Canada to move forward economically, leaving the country stagnating--- no strike that--- falling behind the US rapidly. I think history will show he was the worst PM for this country. He certainly added more debt than all previous PM's combined.


This epitomises lot of the right wing talk I see on FB, Twitter and whatnot.
You've made very few factual points but distributed a lot of adjectives.


Even the point you made - about the economy/country stagnating - is false.
Canada has the second lowest inflation in the G7: https://www.google.com/search?q=inflation+in+g7+countries&rlz=1C1FKPE_enCA978CA978&oq=inflation+in+g7+countries
Canada has the strongest predicted economy in 2025 in the G7:  https://www.google.com/search?q=canada+best+in+g7+prediction+2025

These are all things you can easily look up but your Facebook/Discord/Whatever group that constantly posts FUCK TRUDEAU memes doesn't bother.

Even on debt, while accurate, is ignoring the fact that we had to keep people from starving when the provincially dictated health care rules came into force during COVID.  That was the right thing to do, the thing every country did, and it cost money.
https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/government-debt


But it's coming back down now.


Toque.

Toque, You should read what I wrote, not what you think or wish I wrote. I didn't say anything about inflation. "...Rife with scandals,  illogical regulations, and wasted $$$...." All are provable facts.

You will believe what you want. But the facts are on my side. Show me where I'm wrong. This country is stagnating fast. Its only the GoC bureaucracy that doesn't see the economic down fall. They believe in their own malarky.  They live on taxes from others hard work. Just read through these.....

https://economics.td.com/ca-falling-behind-standard-of-living-curve
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-gdp-per-capita-rich-1.7318989
https://financialpost.com/news/canada-standard-of-living-faces-worst-decline-40-years
https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/why-trudeau-s-policies-fell-short-leaving-canada-s-economy-in-crisis/ar-BB1r8W5c?ocid=BingNewsSerp

The list of bad news is endless. Standard of living is falling. As a business guy, I'm seeing fellow CCPCs of 20 years exiting out of business. Its a mess out there...


"GDP per capita" is *not* standard of living.
When you look at the best places in the world to live?  THAT is standard of living.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/quality-of-life

And, again, even if you think "the economy" is the meat of the situation, Canada is positioned to have the best economic growth in the G7 next year.

Besides, you didn't list any scandals, any illogical regulations, or any comparison of "wasted dollars" between this administration and any other.
That's very typical of someone who comes out of an echo chamber where no one offers skepticism, where insults and claims are not checked.

And if you think Trudeau is trying to force his beliefs on people, you'd better provide a list of EXACTLY which beliefs you're talking about.

Toque.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2025, 09:51:55 AM by FrugalToque »

FrugalToque

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2025, 09:55:14 AM »
Scott Moe does not want his populace to know this, and at this point everyone is so polarized it doesn't matter unfortunately.

That is the issue at least since the Convoy was here in Ottawa: these people do not care about facts.

"Trudeau shut down the schools" -> No, he has no authority over schools
"Trudeau made me wear a mask" -> Only in a few federal buildings. All hospitals, schools, restaurants... that was imposed by provinces.
"Trudeau made me get vaxxed to eat in a restaurant" -> That was imposed by provinces.
"Trudeau is a dictator!" -> Actually, he had a minority gov't, which is the least dictatorial outcome under our system
"The coalition is anti-democratic!" -> Learn how our government works, and also it wasn't a coalition.

The go on and on, impervious to facts, impervious to math or anything involving checking numbers.

scottish

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2025, 10:09:49 AM »
I'm interested that Carney seems to be in the running to replace Trudeau.     I thought he'd wait until after the Liberals lost the election.    I wonder if he thinks he can turn things around?   Or maybe that expectations are low enough that he can survive an electoral loss?

Another topic I don't understand very well is indigenous reconciliation.    As I understand it, we're trying to make up for stealing the land, colonization in general and subjecting native kids to death by disease in residential schools.     We're spending somewhere around 30B/year to do this.     

Yet we still have remote communities living without modern infrastructure like safe drinking water, while some other indigenous communities (Stoney-Nakoda band anyone?)  are integrating very well into the economy.     

sixwings

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2025, 02:14:03 PM »
Carney is probably not a super strong candidate in a more normal leadership race, he's a banker who has never won a political election or been a politician. Someones gotta do it though. Trump could throw a bit of a wild card into the election though with the narrative shifting away from immigration to who can best handle him, an issue Carney could potentially win so he may see himself as having a bit of an outside shot at it. 

FLBiker

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2025, 07:54:56 AM »
As a new citizen who came to Canada with a lot of optimism, I've been pretty underwhelmed by Trudeau's government.  I feel like there have been a lot of high-profile policies that they've rolled out that seem poorly thought out and poorly executed -- off the top of my head, I'm thinking about capping international student visas, the carbon tax heating exemption, the temporary GST waiver, and even replacing the GED with the Canadian Adult Education Credential.  All of these (to me) felt like things designed to capture headlines rather than well thought out policies.

Again, I'm new here, and I have no idea if another government would have done it better, but as a Business Analyst / Project Manager, I was underwhelmed.  In addition, despite the fact that I consider myself quite politically liberal, I share the feeling expressed upthread that the biggest issue I see facing Canada is the tremendous bloat of bureaucracy.  Much to my surprise, I could see myself voting conservative just on this issue alone.

Metalcat

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2025, 10:25:10 AM »
As a new citizen who came to Canada with a lot of optimism, I've been pretty underwhelmed by Trudeau's government.  I feel like there have been a lot of high-profile policies that they've rolled out that seem poorly thought out and poorly executed -- off the top of my head, I'm thinking about capping international student visas, the carbon tax heating exemption, the temporary GST waiver, and even replacing the GED with the Canadian Adult Education Credential.  All of these (to me) felt like things designed to capture headlines rather than well thought out policies.

Again, I'm new here, and I have no idea if another government would have done it better, but as a Business Analyst / Project Manager, I was underwhelmed.  In addition, despite the fact that I consider myself quite politically liberal, I share the feeling expressed upthread that the biggest issue I see facing Canada is the tremendous bloat of bureaucracy.  Much to my surprise, I could see myself voting conservative just on this issue alone.

Nope, you're spot on. The past year and a bit of highly publicized policies have been largely chaotic due to internal conflict in the party.

The GST holiday was, in particular, a messy abomination of a voter-bribe policy. The enormous publicity around the disability support benefit hyped it up so much that they brutally alienated the disabled community by ultimately producing a paltry nothing of a policy and then shrugging their shoulders and saying "well it's actually the responsibility of the provinces."

I was just speaking to a dentist here in Newfoundland about the new dental program and how unbelievably poorly that was executed. They literally didn't even consult the dental governing bodies on how to implement it.

Lots of policy nonsense recently has been for the sake of good press, either rushed or just poorly conceived to begin with, and it's been frankly insulting to the voters they were designed to court.

The desperation and floundering were patently obvious over the past year-ish, and it's just been increasingly embarrassing to watch.

What surprises me is that the inevitability of the public turning against Trudeau was so predictable. He, of all people, should have had a game plan for a precipitous and unrecoverable loss in popularity.

As had been mentioned multiple times in this thread, governments have a life cycle. No party can stay in power indefinitely and 9 years seems to be the longest best-before date anyone can manage before the public grievances and gaffs add up and everyone kind of forgets how much they hated the last guy who stayed that long.

The absolutely unavoidable rotting fish smell should have been planned for, and at least a very clear succession plan should have existed.

It's the hubris of thinking that you can bribe-policy your way out of an inevitable collapse in popularity that blows my mind. And this coming from one of the most well-mentored politicians in the history of Canadian politics.

None of this should have surprised him, and yet he seemed perpetually surprised that he couldn't swing public favour back towards him. That's what drove me nuts for the last while.

I have an aunt who is 70 who has gotten so much plastic surgery that she literally looks like a drag queen, and that's what this reminds me of, letting yourself end up looking fucking ridiculous just because you can't accept that your time in the sun was never going to last forever, no matter what crazy shit you try.

This is why so many of us are so saddened by this. It should be er have come to this. There should have been a plan for exactly what happened, because everyone who has ever paid attention to politics knew it wasn't avoidable. So the silly antics of the death rattle of his leadership are just tragic and embarrassing.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2025, 10:26:41 AM by Metalcat »

FrugalToque

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2025, 10:41:54 AM »
I'm thinking about capping international student visas, the carbon tax heating exemption, the temporary GST waiver, and even replacing the GED with the Canadian Adult Education Credential.  All of these (to me) felt like things designed to capture headlines rather than well thought out policies.


I can understand the int'l student visas.
The issue there was that the federal gov't put money into the provincial governments in order to support small/affordable housing construction.
The provincial governments then took the money and did nothing with it.  I think Ontario built about ten homes while trying to rezone Green Belt areas as luxury condo space.
At that point, the country was waaaay behind and had to do something drastic to keep housing affordable.
Int'l students got whacked.


That said, yeah, the rest of those moves were dumb and desperate.
Better to give money to really poor people around the winter heating/holiday season than 5% off toys and restaurant tabs.


Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2025, 11:20:11 AM »
Gov'ts do dumb things as their time runs out. It's not a Liberal Party specific thing. Barbaric Culture Practices Hotline for example. Term limits for the PM and cabinet ministers wouldn't be awful.

Metalcat

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2025, 11:37:48 AM »
Gov'ts do dumb things as their time runs out. It's not a Liberal Party specific thing. Barbaric Culture Practices Hotline for example. Term limits for the PM and cabinet ministers wouldn't be awful.

Yep, but because it's so predictable, you would think that a legacy politician who was mentored by the last Liberal who was in the same position would learn something from that history??

I guess not.

ChpBstrd

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2025, 11:48:44 AM »
So... long story short... the Trudeau government ran out of ideas?