Author Topic: I guess today is the day  (Read 27789 times)

GuitarStv

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #200 on: March 20, 2025, 07:31:54 AM »
Trump today said he prefers the Liberals in charge, and Polievre is 'no friend of mine'.  Which I guess he imagines is some 5D chess Jedi Mind trick where we all just believe him and vote for Polievre or something.

Yep.  Trump is trying really hard to get PP elected.

sixwings

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #201 on: March 20, 2025, 08:54:16 AM »
Trump today said he prefers the Liberals in charge, and Polievre is 'no friend of mine'.  Which I guess he imagines is some 5D chess Jedi Mind trick where we all just believe him and vote for Polievre or something.

Yep.  Trump is trying really hard to get PP elected.

Well as always Trump fucked it all up and did a good job getting us to love Trudeau again and getting on the Carney train. 338canada has a liberal majority as the most likely outcome now.... which is shocking. Like looking back at my posts about this from 8-10 weeks ago I was 100% sure a con majority in the fall was baked.

SunnyDays

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #202 on: March 20, 2025, 09:02:24 AM »
I had to snort when I saw a TV news clip of Poilievre saying he was “tough to deal with,” in reference to Trump’s comment.  As if!  He would fold like a bad poker hand.

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #203 on: March 20, 2025, 09:09:30 AM »
Posthumane , I did my short stint in SALH around 1994 I believe it was. Then for the oilfield work, it was for a bunch of wells for Pan Canadian and that would have been around 2000 I believe.

DRES is quite the facility that also has a long history not many Canadians know of. A good college friend's Dad was a scientist working in one of those underground levels. Very cool that you had a posting there RC.

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #204 on: March 20, 2025, 09:20:27 AM »
I had to snort when I saw a TV news clip of Poilievre saying he was “tough to deal with,” in reference to Trump’s comment.  As if!  He would fold like a bad poker hand.

If you have to say "I'm a tough guy!"... you are not a Tough Guy.

Canadian Helmet

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #205 on: March 20, 2025, 05:49:09 PM »
Well when you are negotiating to win, would you rather deal with someone who likes their own country or someone who believes Canada is post nationalist and has no real identity.  I bet Trump would rather negotiate with Trudeau vs Carney and Carney vs Poilievre.

scottish

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #206 on: March 20, 2025, 05:56:27 PM »
I've spent a fair bit of time out at BATUS (British Army Training Unit Suffield) and it was always amazing to see the amount of British infantry and armored division equipment being delivered in and out of the region.

My last regular force posting was to CFB Suffield in support of DRES and BATUS. Kind of crazy that the British Army had/has more armour and related vehicles in Canada than the CF!

Not to worry.  I hear we got some excellent submarines in part for allowing the MoD to use Suffield as a training ground.

Posthumane

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #207 on: March 20, 2025, 07:37:43 PM »
Posthumane , I did my short stint in SALH around 1994 I believe it was. Then for the oilfield work, it was for a bunch of wells for Pan Canadian and that would have been around 2000 I believe.

DRES is quite the facility that also has a long history not many Canadians know of. A good college friend's Dad was a scientist working in one of those underground levels. Very cool that you had a posting there RC.
Ah, cool, a little earlier than me. I worked as a researcher (civilian) at DRDC (formerly DRES) from 08 to 17, and was with SALH for that time period as well before transferring to reg force.


GuitarStv

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #208 on: March 20, 2025, 08:28:47 PM »
Well when you are negotiating to win, would you rather deal with someone who likes their own country or someone who believes Canada is post nationalist and has no real identity.  I bet Trump would rather negotiate with Trudeau vs Carney and Carney vs Poilievre.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Canadian Helmet

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #209 on: March 21, 2025, 05:51:01 AM »
Well when you are negotiating to win, would you rather deal with someone who likes their own country or someone who believes Canada is post nationalist and has no real identity.  I bet Trump would rather negotiate with Trudeau vs Carney and Carney vs Poilievre.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I was referring to a previous post.  I guess i should have quoted it.  I will explain.

Its just a bit of game theory

If I really wanted to win a single game of basketball, and the two opponent options were either a toddler or Michael Jordan, I would play against a toddler to increase my chances of winning.

If you were impolitely asking about the other information where Trudeau describes Canada as a postnationalist state with no core identity, it was in the New York Times. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/magazine/trudeaus-canada-again.html   ... This one costs money
https://journals.uclpress.co.uk/ljcs/article/id/2347/print/.. This one is free and talks a bit about it.


If you were impolitely asking about assumptions that were made, I will spell them out for you. 
If my logic is wrong we could have further discussions on where it is wrong.  I will put m
Assumption 1.  If you believe and inform others that your own country is a postnationalist state with no core identity, you do not like your country.
Assumption 2.  Trudeau and Carney greater globalists than Poilievre.
Assumption 3.  If you are a globalist, you would put globalist values over Canadian values.
Assumption 4.  Trump wants to win at negotiations.



GuitarStv

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #210 on: March 21, 2025, 07:26:16 AM »
Well when you are negotiating to win, would you rather deal with someone who likes their own country or someone who believes Canada is post nationalist and has no real identity.  I bet Trump would rather negotiate with Trudeau vs Carney and Carney vs Poilievre.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I was referring to a previous post.  I guess i should have quoted it.  I will explain.

Its just a bit of game theory

If I really wanted to win a single game of basketball, and the two opponent options were either a toddler or Michael Jordan, I would play against a toddler to increase my chances of winning.

If you were impolitely asking about the other information where Trudeau describes Canada as a postnationalist state with no core identity, it was in the New York Times. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/magazine/trudeaus-canada-again.html   ... This one costs money
https://journals.uclpress.co.uk/ljcs/article/id/2347/print/.. This one is free and talks a bit about it.


If you were impolitely asking about assumptions that were made, I will spell them out for you. 
If my logic is wrong we could have further discussions on where it is wrong.  I will put m
Assumption 1.  If you believe and inform others that your own country is a postnationalist state with no core identity, you do not like your country.
Assumption 2.  Trudeau and Carney greater globalists than Poilievre.
Assumption 3.  If you are a globalist, you would put globalist values over Canadian values.
Assumption 4.  Trump wants to win at negotiations.

I was wondering why you're purposely misinterpreting what was said once by Trudeau in a throwaway article in 2015 (where he was simply reiterating the claims that Cretien made way back in 2000).  The reference you're making isn't in context at all.

Trudeau was reflecting on the difference between Canada and countries whose strong national identity make it hard to welcome and integrate new people.  "There is no core identity, no mainstream in Canada" didn't deny the idea of the country of Canada but was reflecting on the many sources of contributions that went into making it.  That's why he also said in the same breath: "There are shared values—openness, compassion, willingness to work hard, to be there for each other, to search for equality and justice."  The whole point was that Canada doesn't force people new to the country to conform to some particular version of 'being Canadian' - if you remember your grade school social studies, this would be just echoing the 'cultural mosaic' vs the 'melting pot' concept.  The quote that you're taking out of context had absolutely nothing to do with globalism.

And frankly, I find it laughable to suggest that PP is more concerned with Canadian values than pretty much any of the other party leaders.  PP is quite a political animal, he's very good at focusing hate and attacking things.  He has no clearly articulated vision for the future of Canada, he has no interest in the average Canadian and seems to be in it largely for banks, billionaires and big polluters.  PPs stated views are so inauthentic that everything he tries needs to be run by a focus group before he feels comfortable saying it.  It's why he's terrified of having reporters around when he's campaigning.

Both Canada and the US were winning when they were trading under the agreement that Trump negotiated the last time he was in office.  Trump isn't negotiating to win any more.  He's an incompetent old man with no checks and balances and a shit-ton of power who is fucking around with whatever random fancy floats through his mind.  It's not possible to negotiate with the United States right now, because Trump will just break any negotiation agreed to the next time he gets distracted.  His government has shown not only an unwillingness to stand by commitments already made, but also an unwillingness to follow the laws of his own country.  Trump isn't negotiating to win.  He's negotiating to cause harm to his own country and ours based on political ideology and a poor understanding of economics.

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #211 on: March 21, 2025, 07:55:28 AM »
PP's most honest statement lately has been "I'm a tough guy to deal with." Just ask anyone that has to interact with him and they'll agree. Doug Ford just got a solid majority Gov't in ON. So he's rock solid politically and when PP asked him for help in the upcoming Federal election he said nope. Not because of any political risk to Doug Ford. Just because he really doesn't like him. Another Conservative leader dislikes PP so much he'd refuse to help him. Since Canada is not a dictatorship, regardless of what the right wing conspiracy theorist SM channels say, you actually have to work with other people to make anything happen. JT found out how hard that was when you are not liked and PP would start the process being disliked right from Day 1.

PP's known skills
- 3 word slogans
- arguing about everything
- making people dislike you
- being a perma politician

Not sure that's ^^ a recipe for an effective leader in a complex economic crisis who has to build something new. ;-)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2025, 08:17:27 AM by Retire-Canada »

Sayyadina

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #212 on: March 21, 2025, 10:07:57 AM »


(Never attached an image before, sorry if it's weird and blank)

Metalcat

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #213 on: March 21, 2025, 10:10:55 AM »
PP's most honest statement lately has been "I'm a tough guy to deal with." Just ask anyone that has to interact with him and they'll agree. Doug Ford just got a solid majority Gov't in ON. So he's rock solid politically and when PP asked him for help in the upcoming Federal election he said nope. Not because of any political risk to Doug Ford. Just because he really doesn't like him. Another Conservative leader dislikes PP so much he'd refuse to help him. Since Canada is not a dictatorship, regardless of what the right wing conspiracy theorist SM channels say, you actually have to work with other people to make anything happen. JT found out how hard that was when you are not liked and PP would start the process being disliked right from Day 1.

PP's known skills
- 3 word slogans
- arguing about everything
- making people dislike you
- being a perma politician

Not sure that's ^^ a recipe for an effective leader in a complex economic crisis who has to build something new. ;-)

He has always been notoriously disliked by people who work with him, he is also notoriously stupid, although I suppose it's possible that he's actually reasonably intelligent and just so difficult that people default to thinking he's a moron, because in politics, being really fucking difficult to work with is fucking stupid.

Even when running a dictatorship, you need to have strong alliances...actually, that's even more important in running a dictatorship because your risk of a coup is always high in a dictatorship, so you need a lot of powerful allies. Trump, for example, is very easy to work with, just not easy for people who want to uphold democracy to work with.

PP is just an ass.

FrugalToque

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #214 on: March 22, 2025, 12:22:58 PM »
PP's known skills
- 3 word slogans


Today (or was it yesterday), he came out with "Boots not Suits".
Which meant he had to stop wearing a suit jacket.
As if we don't have pictures from the day before (?)


It astounds me.  Neither he nor anyone in his party has caught on to the fact that the electoral landscape completely changed the moment Trump started with his "Governnor Trudeau", "51st state" annexation threats.


Whether we think that's a real threat or hyperbole to get a better trade deal, most of Canada (outside Danielle Smith and her followers in Alberta) is violently opposed to anything like that and regards it as a credible threat.


But PP and his peeps are doing "Boots not Suits!" while Elon tweets out "Canada isn't a real country" just like Putin talked about the Ukraine.


Toque.

SunnyDays

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #215 on: March 22, 2025, 04:04:40 PM »
PP's known skills
- 3 word slogans


Today (or was it yesterday), he came out with "Boots not Suits".
Which meant he had to stop wearing a suit jacket.
As if we don't have pictures from the day before (?)


It astounds me.  Neither he nor anyone in his party has caught on to the fact that the electoral landscape completely changed the moment Trump started with his "Governnor Trudeau", "51st state" annexation threats.


Whether we think that's a real threat or hyperbole to get a better trade deal, most of Canada (outside Danielle Smith and her followers in Alberta) is violently opposed to anything like that and regards it as a credible threat.


But PP and his peeps are doing "Boots not Suits!" while Elon tweets out "Canada isn't a real country" just like Putin talked about the Ukraine.


Toque.

PP's new slogan just supports Metalcat's comment he is "notoriously stupid."  How else can you explain his idiotic behaviour?  He's a one trick pony that has never had an original thought.

Frugal Lizard

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #216 on: March 23, 2025, 08:29:21 AM »
I gotta admit, this is a good laugh:

Mark Carney quizzing Mike Myers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al9yWA4TUII

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #217 on: March 23, 2025, 10:07:55 AM »
PP's known skills
- 3 word slogans


Today (or was it yesterday), he came out with "Boots not Suits".
Which meant he had to stop wearing a suit jacket.
As if we don't have pictures from the day before (?)


It astounds me.  Neither he nor anyone in his party has caught on to the fact that the electoral landscape completely changed the moment Trump started with his "Governnor Trudeau", "51st state" annexation threats.


Whether we think that's a real threat or hyperbole to get a better trade deal, most of Canada (outside Danielle Smith and her followers in Alberta) is violently opposed to anything like that and regards it as a credible threat.


But PP and his peeps are doing "Boots not Suits!" while Elon tweets out "Canada isn't a real country" just like Putin talked about the Ukraine.


Toque.

PP's new slogan just supports Metalcat's comment he is "notoriously stupid."  How else can you explain his idiotic behaviour?  He's a one trick pony that has never had an original thought.

Sadly there are people who hate the Liberals so much they will happily vote for PP.  There are people who think we should happily be the 51st state, roughly 10% according to polls.

We need really strong voter turnout.

In the Ontario election my local Conservative candidate got over 50% of the votes.  I can't find voter turnout as a % by riding, but overall it was something like 43%.  If the 57% who didn't show up were discouraged ABC voters the result would have been different.


Dee

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #218 on: March 23, 2025, 02:56:32 PM »
This is going to sound harsh and jaded and I don't really mean it, but part of me thinks if we have a population that can't be arsed to vote then we don't deserve to be our own country/not be annexed. Which is a way of saying that I would love to see the minimal level of engagement that means EXCELLENT voter turnout.

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #219 on: March 23, 2025, 03:35:30 PM »
This is going to sound harsh and jaded and I don't really mean it, but part of me thinks if we have a population that can't be arsed to vote then we don't deserve to be our own country/not be annexed. Which is a way of saying that I would love to see the minimal level of engagement that means EXCELLENT voter turnout.

I know.  Ontario deserves whatever Ford does.  Because we didn't vote.  Well, I did, but so many didn't.

And it's not like the US, where there is voter suppression and gerrymandering.   Our riding boundaries make sense and it is not hard to be registered.   And there are lots of polling stations.

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #220 on: March 23, 2025, 04:21:39 PM »


If you want to vote by mail you can request a special ballot to do so on the Elections Canada website.

https://www.elections.ca/content2.aspx?section=vote&dir=app&document=index&lang=e

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #221 on: March 23, 2025, 04:26:47 PM »
My mind was wandering, and I am a geek (or nerd?)

This is Middle Earth.  Trump is Sauron. PP is Saruman (seriously, he wants to emulate Trump, as Saruman emulated Sauron).

So who are we?  We are HOBBITS!!!!!  Not among the mightiest, but tough, and willing to stand up and fight.  It wasn't just Frodo and Sam, it was Merry and Pippin and Fatty Bolger.


More seriously, those of us in Ontario each got a $200 bribe from Ford.  Donating it to whichever ABC party in your riding has the most chance of winning would be a worthy use of it


scottish

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #222 on: March 23, 2025, 04:50:53 PM »
My mind was wandering, and I am a geek (or nerd?)

This is Middle Earth.  Trump is Sauron. PP is Saruman (seriously, he wants to emulate Trump, as Saruman emulated Sauron).

So who are we?  We are HOBBITS!!!!!  Not among the mightiest, but tough, and willing to stand up and fight.  It wasn't just Frodo and Sam, it was Merry and Pippin and Fatty Bolger.


More seriously, those of us in Ontario each got a $200 bribe from Ford.  Donating it to whichever ABC party in your riding has the most chance of winning would be a worthy use of it

I'm not a hobbit!   I'm a sleek, agile Canadian elf and an excellent shot with a bow.    (Maybe in my dreams, anyway).

What does ABC stand for?

In other news, Conservatives announce plan for “Canada First with Shovel-Ready Zones”—pre-approved areas to build mines, data centres, pipelines, LNG plants and more.

Extending your metaphor, we must be dwarves, eager to toil in the dark.

But I'm not sure if this is the sort of top down planning they used to do in the USSR...

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #223 on: March 23, 2025, 04:59:08 PM »
ABC --> Anything But Conservative

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #224 on: March 23, 2025, 05:12:25 PM »
My mind was wandering, and I am a geek (or nerd?)

This is Middle Earth.  Trump is Sauron. PP is Saruman (seriously, he wants to emulate Trump, as Saruman emulated Sauron).

So who are we?  We are HOBBITS!!!!!  Not among the mightiest, but tough, and willing to stand up and fight.  It wasn't just Frodo and Sam, it was Merry and Pippin and Fatty Bolger.


More seriously, those of us in Ontario each got a $200 bribe from Ford.  Donating it to whichever ABC party in your riding has the most chance of winning would be a worthy use of it

I'm not a hobbit!   I'm a sleek, agile Canadian elf and an excellent shot with a bow.    (Maybe in my dreams, anyway).

What does ABC stand for?

In other news, Conservatives announce plan for “Canada First with Shovel-Ready Zones”—pre-approved areas to build mines, data centres, pipelines, LNG plants and more.

Extending your metaphor, we must be dwarves, eager to toil in the dark.

But I'm not sure if this is the sort of top down planning they used to do in the USSR...

Elves, dwarves, Hobbits, we have an alliance!

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #225 on: March 23, 2025, 05:14:38 PM »
I am not really an acronym fan.  But now we have ABC, anything but conservative,  and BABA, buy anything but American.

Negative at first glance for both, but really both are positive.

Dee

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #226 on: March 23, 2025, 05:59:08 PM »
Quote
More seriously, those of us in Ontario each got a $200 bribe from Ford.  Donating it to whichever ABC party in your riding has the most chance of winning would be a worthy use of it

I cashed mine and sent a friend on ODSP the equivalent amount. Since a conservative win means more poverty for her. If another party had won and had actually made good on their platform to double ODSP supports (i.e income for Ontarians with disabilities that prevent them from working), she and many others like her might have had a great boost in quality of life.

rocketpj

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #227 on: March 23, 2025, 06:20:37 PM »
My prediction is that this election will be tough on the NDP - they will lose a lot of seats as people vote en masse to keep the Liberals in power and block Polievre.  The NDP don't deserve that, but that tends to be what happens when the Conservative brand is so tainted for whatever reason.

There are many people like me who have been NDP members for decades, donate regularly (I've been donating monthly since 2001).  But I vote based on who will beat the local Conservative candidate.  The NDP 'acclaimed' an 18 year old to run in our riding, a kid I've known since he was in preschool, and as much as I like him there is no way I can vote for him.  That said, last time we had a star candidate for the NDP and I also voted Liberal - the NDP just aren't competitive in this riding.

Probably a drop in seats will mean that Singh will step down.  I personally think he has a lot to be proud of - dental care, child care etc.

Dee

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #228 on: March 23, 2025, 06:53:17 PM »
yeah, I'm afraid I agree with you rocketpj. I'd like to take a look at what's going on in Quebec and how the Bloc is doing. I don't like that we seem to be heading towards a two-party system. Are we just going to Americanize ourselves? But I get it. I'm highly likely to vote according to the same logic you just laid out even though I'm in a strongly and staunchly Conservative riding. It's unlikely that a Liberal candidate will have a fighting chance. But if I get a decent Liberal candidate, I'll go for it. Unless the Liberal has no chance and either the NDP or the Green run someone I really like, then, sure, I may as well vote for the candidate I like the most who won't get elected.

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #229 on: March 23, 2025, 07:18:57 PM »
I'm going to vote Liberal simply because in my riding for the provincial election the Liberal candidate did better than the NDP candidate I voted for.

I wish I lived in a Green riding.  But my ABC vote is going to be needed, my riding is double Conservative right now.

Metalcat

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #230 on: March 23, 2025, 07:25:35 PM »
I'm going to vote Liberal simply because in my riding for the provincial election the Liberal candidate did better than the NDP candidate I voted for.

I wish I lived in a Green riding.  But my ABC vote is going to be needed, my riding is double Conservative right now.

My riding is strongly Liberal, but I'll be voting NDP. I don't vote against parties, I vote for specific candidates. My philosophy has always been to elect good people to government.

If people properly investigated who their local candidates were and elected them as people, we wouldn't have the PP's as possible world leaders. He got elected before his brain even fully developed, and he got elected probably because a whole bunch of people voted for a party and not a person.

I understand the rationale to vote for or against a party, but it's just not how I personally vote, and likely never will. That said, nothing mobilizes voters like having a "bad guy" to vote against, and I would rather people vote than not vote, so I don't have an issue with ABC voting, it's just not for me.

Retire-Canada

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #231 on: March 23, 2025, 07:39:49 PM »
Last Fed election the NDP won a close election in my riding with the Cons coming a close second the Libs were about 1/3 the votes of the NDP or Cons. So I'll be voting NDP. People voting Lib would probably give the riding to the Cons since they tend to vote ODC (Only Damn Conservative).

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #232 on: March 23, 2025, 09:32:26 PM »
I'm going to vote Liberal simply because in my riding for the provincial election the Liberal candidate did better than the NDP candidate I voted for.

I wish I lived in a Green riding.  But my ABC vote is going to be needed, my riding is double Conservative right now.

My riding is strongly Liberal, but I'll be voting NDP. I don't vote against parties, I vote for specific candidates. My philosophy has always been to elect good people to government.

If people properly investigated who their local candidates were and elected them as people, we wouldn't have the PP's as possible world leaders. He got elected before his brain even fully developed, and he got elected probably because a whole bunch of people voted for a party and not a person.

I understand the rationale to vote for or against a party, but it's just not how I personally vote, and likely never will. That said, nothing mobilizes voters like having a "bad guy" to vote against, and I would rather people vote than not vote, so I don't have an issue with ABC voting, it's just not for me.

For the Ontario election I went your route, hoping that this good NDP candidate could turn a Conservative riding.  Didn't happen.

If I saw a poll that my local NDP federal candidate has more chances than the Liberal candidate,  I would again vote NDP.  But odds are they won't.

And there are always party concerns.  Would you vote for who you thought was the best candidate if you were in Quebec and the best candidate was BQ? I've been in that situation.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2025, 09:35:08 PM by RetiredAt63 »

SunnyDays

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #233 on: March 23, 2025, 10:03:05 PM »
I had been a pretty staunch NDP voter, both provincially and federally, until I moved to my current city 35 years ago.  It’s so strongly Conservative that my vote counts for nothing, but I have lately started to vote Liberal, hoping to at least have them make a less pathetic competitor to the Cons. 

It will be very interesting this time around to see if the Cons lose their huge advantage in my riding.

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #234 on: March 24, 2025, 06:08:32 AM »
After finding out I was not registered to vote in the Ontario election, I went online to be sure I am registered for this one.  I am.

PoutineLover

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #235 on: March 24, 2025, 06:23:36 AM »
I hope my riding is strongly liberal enough that I can vote Green, and regardless Conservatives are not even competitive here so I think I can vote my conscience. Biggest thing is just for people to vote.. Staying home and feeling like you're vote doesn't matter is what gets fringe wackos elected..

Metalcat

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #236 on: March 24, 2025, 06:29:24 AM »
I'm going to vote Liberal simply because in my riding for the provincial election the Liberal candidate did better than the NDP candidate I voted for.

I wish I lived in a Green riding.  But my ABC vote is going to be needed, my riding is double Conservative right now.

My riding is strongly Liberal, but I'll be voting NDP. I don't vote against parties, I vote for specific candidates. My philosophy has always been to elect good people to government.

If people properly investigated who their local candidates were and elected them as people, we wouldn't have the PP's as possible world leaders. He got elected before his brain even fully developed, and he got elected probably because a whole bunch of people voted for a party and not a person.

I understand the rationale to vote for or against a party, but it's just not how I personally vote, and likely never will. That said, nothing mobilizes voters like having a "bad guy" to vote against, and I would rather people vote than not vote, so I don't have an issue with ABC voting, it's just not for me.

For the Ontario election I went your route, hoping that this good NDP candidate could turn a Conservative riding.  Didn't happen.

If I saw a poll that my local NDP federal candidate has more chances than the Liberal candidate,  I would again vote NDP.  But odds are they won't.

And there are always party concerns.  Would you vote for who you thought was the best candidate if you were in Quebec and the best candidate was BQ? I've been in that situation.

It's nuanced. If their values align with a lot of the more problematic BQ values, then I'm not going to judge them as the best candidate. But if they're a passionate rebel within the party building up values I support, then that's another matter. Also, if I cannot in gold conscience vote for the other candidates, then I'm pushed further to consider a BQ vote.

It would all come down to the values the candidate held. I would like more non-racist, non-separatist elected members of the BQ, our entire country benefits from that party being more heavily on the really awesome characteristics of QC culture rather than the nastier elements.
Granted, I don't live in QC anymore and have never been put in that situation.

I think because my family has been involved in campaigns my whole life, I just have such a strong sense of the need for good people in government, and that the people ARE the parties.

That has never been more clear than seeing the ugliness take over the conservative party.

Now, I profoundly dislike PP on a personal and political level. Any way I vote will be a vote against him, but I'm always going to vote for the person I want representing me most, even if that's not strategic.

Because when people vote against something, that's how we get the PPs in government in the first place. I doubt anyone but his mom actually voted for him when he was elected. His constituents voted for Harper, and really, they voted against the Liberals.

I doubt anyone met that sniveling little shit and thought "this is a great man, and I want him to represent me."
« Last Edit: March 24, 2025, 06:33:13 AM by Metalcat »

Dee

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #237 on: March 24, 2025, 07:02:23 AM »
I'm not sure about that, Metalcat. I lived in PP's riding and I got the impression many people there genuinely wanted him in particular as an MP. Presumably because he seemed like a local boy who had his finger on the pulse of the community? My partner knows him from local cruise nights, where PP would attend as a young man. Maybe it was neat at first that this young kid got elected and had a big mouth and gumption and got things done for the riding? I don't get it, but I think many constituents truly want *him* as an MP. Whether that means they like him as a person, I don't know. But I doubt they see him as the dislikeable person you and many people (including me) have felt him to be.

I mean, at this point, people in the riding will likely be voting for him because, hey, isn't neat to vote for the person who will be PM if his party wins?

And I definitely used to talk the talk that you talk about voting for a decent local candidate. But then I lived in PP's riding and now in a riding south of that, that's even more so Conservative. So I go ahead and vote normally vote Liberal now. One year, the Liberal who ran against PP actually came in a relatively close second. Like way closer than the complete landslides PP normally gets.

This year, I'll try to get info on my local candidates and I'll keep an eye on polls. I expect it will be a Conservative landslide but if it looks like the Liberal candidate has a fighting chance, I'll vote Liberal. If it looks like a Conservative slam dunk (very likely), I'll vote whomever I like best. But there may not be any candidates that are likely to be good MPs because the other parties are likely to run duds knowning there's no chance their dud will be elected.

Though you never know...the orange wave in Quebec was full of "duds" who weren't meant to be elected. So if I vote NDP or Green or another party in this riding, I really should be voting for a candidate that I believe could step up and do a decent job if the unexpected happened and they were elected.

Frugal Lizard

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #238 on: March 24, 2025, 08:37:01 AM »
We have a fabulous Green candidate. I would love her to be prime minister. Liberals courted her but she the Green Party is her jam. So I am going to vote for her. And work to get her elected.

I'm with @Metalcat - ever since I heard Mike Schreiner talk about voting for the candidate that you wanted.You will never elect a candidate if you don't vote for them. And it feels better to vote for something. Voting for what I want, despite the outcome has always made me feel better about the result, despite the appalling Doug Ford government. And despite not winning any seats for so long, the growth of the vote for greens caused other parties to adopt green policies to their platforms. 

GuitarStv

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #239 on: March 24, 2025, 08:47:25 AM »
You will never elect a candidate if you don't vote for them.

If it seems like a candidate I really, really dislike is going to be voted in where I live then I'll vote for the most likely challenger.  Otherwise I vote for the the candidate I think is best.  Over my life this has worked out to about 50/50 one way or the other.  Thinking back pretty hard though, I'm struggling to remember ever actually voting for a candidate who was elected.

I really, really hate first past the post elections.  There are much better options that wouldn't render your votes irrelevant.  We should choose one.

Stasher

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #240 on: March 24, 2025, 09:11:02 AM »
Last Fed election the NDP won a close election in my riding with the Cons coming a close second the Libs were about 1/3 the votes of the NDP or Cons. So I'll be voting NDP. People voting Lib would probably give the riding to the Cons since they tend to vote ODC (Only Damn Conservative).

RC your riding now has one of the nastiest people in the Conservative wheelhouse. Aaron Gunn is running for election and he absolutely must be defeated at all costs. The damage that man will try to do and the lack of compassion he has for those in the most dire of situations, the lowest of incomes or not "colonial" enough is not the country we want to live in.

The only place in Canada right now that it seems the NDP are strong is here on the island and we need to fight like hell to make sure they get in. Being involved with the Greens for so long but knowing the reality is why I am 100% in on orange.

My riding is strongly Liberal, but I'll be voting NDP. I don't vote against parties, I vote for specific candidates. My philosophy has always been to elect good people to government.

Love this Metalcat and 100% what I just shared on social media yesterday. If we search out enough good people we will get a majority as IMO the amount of Conservatives running are walking slogan and attack ad hate filled people. Our riding the Conservative candidate was so bad he was disqualified and removed earlier this year, you gotta be bad for the current Cons to boot you.

I'm going to vote Liberal simply because in my riding for the provincial election the Liberal candidate did better than the NDP candidate I voted for.
I wish I lived in a Green riding.  But my ABC vote is going to be needed, my riding is double Conservative right now.

Because of odd provincial politics, where our Conservatives in BC called themselves Liberals, it has ruining the perception of the Federal Liberals here and they typically don't run any candidates. If it wasn't such a pivotal election I would have put more thought into running as the Green but I I turned it down because it is all hands on deck for island NDP.

Frugal Lizard

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #241 on: March 24, 2025, 09:34:21 AM »
You will never elect a candidate if you don't vote for them.

If it seems like a candidate I really, really dislike is going to be voted in where I live then I'll vote for the most likely challenger.  Otherwise I vote for the the candidate I think is best.  Over my life this has worked out to about 50/50 one way or the other.  Thinking back pretty hard though, I'm struggling to remember ever actually voting for a candidate who was elected.

I really, really hate first past the post elections.  There are much better options that wouldn't render your votes irrelevant.  We should choose one.
I too really really hate them too. For the longest time (like ever) who I voted for versus who won were different people. Thankful for municipal elections.

Metalcat

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #242 on: March 24, 2025, 09:45:58 AM »
I'm lucky, I've only lived in a Conservative riding once, and that riding swings pretty wildly between Liberal Conservative and NDP, but has a general Liberal leaning. In my adult life, generally the conservatives who have won have had enormous respect within the community. Also, because it's a swing riding, a party will not infrequently run someone who is rumoured to be  selected as a cabinet minister if elected, which can be a carrot that pushes the voters that way if the other candidates aren't as strong or have known controversies, y'know, like an active fraud investigation or showing up on camera for official government business with their dick out...twice.

treffpunkt

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #243 on: March 24, 2025, 09:55:27 AM »
...Biggest thing is just for people to vote.. Staying home and feeling like you're vote doesn't matter is what gets fringe wackos elected..

Except here in the west it's not just a feeling: our vote truly does not matter. The polling stations in BC haven't even closed when the winner is announced. Makes you feel like a bit of a chump.

I still vote in every election at every level of government, but not mattering is not just a feeling for some Canadians. It's a reality. You can't fault people in underrepresented provinces for their apathy when a voter in a province like PEI has three times their voting power and your vote really is irrelevant to the outcome.

It's never going to happen, but FPTP needs to go.

PoutineLover

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #244 on: March 24, 2025, 10:12:09 AM »
...Biggest thing is just for people to vote.. Staying home and feeling like you're vote doesn't matter is what gets fringe wackos elected..

Except here in the west it's not just a feeling: our vote truly does not matter. The polling stations in BC haven't even closed when the winner is announced. Makes you feel like a bit of a chump.

I still vote in every election at every level of government, but not mattering is not just a feeling for some Canadians. It's a reality. You can't fault people in underrepresented provinces for their apathy when a voter in a province like PEI has three times their voting power and your vote really is irrelevant to the outcome.

It's never going to happen, but FPTP needs to go.
Oh I completely agree with you, it's a bad system and people do have good reason to feel that way.

I wish they hadn't done away with the per-vote subsidy, I think that really encourages voting for your beliefs and it makes a tangible difference for small parties.

Maybe one day we will get a more representative system, but in the meantime I just don't think checking out is the answer.

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #245 on: March 24, 2025, 10:31:47 AM »
...Biggest thing is just for people to vote.. Staying home and feeling like you're vote doesn't matter is what gets fringe wackos elected..

Except here in the west it's not just a feeling: our vote truly does not matter. The polling stations in BC haven't even closed when the winner is announced. Makes you feel like a bit of a chump.

I still vote in every election at every level of government, but not mattering is not just a feeling for some Canadians. It's a reality. You can't fault people in underrepresented provinces for their apathy when a voter in a province like PEI has three times their voting power and your vote really is irrelevant to the outcome.

It's never going to happen, but FPTP needs to go.
Oh I completely agree with you, it's a bad system and people do have good reason to feel that way.

I wish they hadn't done away with the per-vote subsidy, I think that really encourages voting for your beliefs and it makes a tangible difference for small parties.

Maybe one day we will get a more representative system, but in the meantime I just don't think checking out is the answer.

Yes to all of this. 

Back to candidates.  I am at the point where I think anyone running for the Conservative Party, no matter how good they seem, is a deeply flawed candidate.  Simply because they are running for the Conservative Party, which has consistently chosen terrible leaders when they had good alternatives.  If you chose a party with those values you cannot be a good candidate. Especially these days.  What is the saying?  10 people are at a table, one is a known Nazi.  How many Nazis are sitting at the table?  The answer is 10, because non-Nazis will not sit at that table.  Or the saying I grew up with, you are known by the company you choose to keep.

I really hope the Liberals and NDP run good candidates in all the ridings, they knew an election was coming soon.  It is not like the Ontario election where Liberal and NDP candidates were slow to get going becasue they were taken by surprise.

RetiredAt63

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #246 on: March 24, 2025, 10:33:07 AM »
And Danielle Smith should be reported to Elections Canada for Election interference.  She wants trump to hold off on tariffs and stuff until after the election so people forget how Maple Maga PP is.

GuitarStv

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #247 on: March 24, 2025, 10:36:48 AM »
10 people are at a table, one is a known Nazi.  How many Nazis are sitting at the table?



hahahahahaha . . . . ugh.  At least US politics makes me feel like we're not doing so bad.

Chaplin

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #248 on: March 24, 2025, 10:49:53 AM »
RC your riding now has one of the nastiest people in the Conservative wheelhouse. Aaron Gunn is running for election and he absolutely must be defeated at all costs. The damage that man will try to do and the lack of compassion he has for those in the most dire of situations, the lowest of incomes or not "colonial" enough is not the country we want to live in.

The only place in Canada right now that it seems the NDP are strong is here on the island and we need to fight like hell to make sure they get in. Being involved with the Greens for so long but knowing the reality is why I am 100% in on orange.

Yes, Gunn sure sounds like he's from another country.

Not all of the island is NDP. Victoria's riding is strongly Liberal and mine has been Green for three terms, so the strategic votes at this end of the island are a bit different. Given the crazy s**t I hear at some local council meetings it makes me wonder if my riding will continue to go Green, but then again those are the loud voices, not necessarily the numerous ones.

Although I'm not in Ontario, I followed votewell.ca during that provincial election and now their data is for the federal election. To the extent that polling has any value, it might be worth checking if you don't know where your riding stands. Since polling uses a lot of historical data to massage the raw polling numbers, and this election is being held in very different circumstances it wouldn't surprise me if polling is extra wrong this time around.

Proportional representation please!

rocketpj

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Re: I guess today is the day
« Reply #249 on: March 24, 2025, 01:08:03 PM »
I agree with Metalcat's statement about voting for the good candidate.  As it happens, our local NDP candidate is an 18 year old who was acclaimed to the position, and I just can't see him as a good candidate.  Meanwhile our Liberal MP has been pretty good in his job and I have no issue voting for him.  Not even going to look at the Con candidate because that party does not reflect my values at all.  Our last Con MP was an empty shirt who kept sending me spam letters about fighting crime (in our small, relatively low crime town) and evil immigrants.  It was a joy to see his career end.

I have often espoused the 'vote the candidate and your values' position, though to be fair it was usually very easy for me as I lived in a solid NDP riding for about 25 years.  It was not hard to vote for Libby Davies.  I have voted Green provincially a few times, most recently when the NDP were campaigning against the carbon tax here in BC (about 15 years ago).

Our federal riding is a close race between Con and Lib.  I just can't vote NDP or Green and see the Cons win it.