[CAN - Waterloo, ON] Mustachian Neighborhoods?

[Freedomin5]

We are Canadian expats currently living abroad. DH and I grew up in the Toronto area, but are thinking of moving to Waterloo, Ontario, when we FIRE in a couple years. We have a kid who will be in elementary school (Gr. 5). We have family in Toronto, so we would like to stay within a 1-1.5 hour drive from Toronto.

We are looking for a Mustachian neighborhood -- safe, bikeable, walking/biking distance to good schools, walking/biking distance to grocery stores, library, public transportation, etc. Ideally, it will also be close to a green space like a large park. We will be FIRE, so being close to work wouldn't be a consideration.

Housing prices are also a consideration -- we want to spend less than $750k, and we don't need a large home. We are not looking for the "Rosedale" or "Forest Hill" of Waterloo -- a solid middle class neighborhood with smaller homes would work well for us, as long as it's safe and meets the abovementioned criteria.

I would love to hear thoughts/experiences/recommendations with regard to Waterloo neighborhoods/schools/etc.

My questions are:

1. Which neighborhoods/areas would you recommend that are family-oriented and lend themselves well to a Mustachian lifestyle?
2. Are there areas of town that we should avoid?

Thanks in advance!

[Margie]

I want to write something encouraging but 750 is an average house in an average neighbourhood.  Housing here is insane and I am always stunned wondering how people afford it.  Our house was purchased for just shy of 140K about 25 years ago and is now 'worth' upwards of 850K.  It is a decent house in a decent neighbourhood but nothing special.   (1300 sq ft; pretty big yard; 3bed 1.5 bath; attached garage).  Our property taxes were about $1800 at the start and are now $3350. 

Older neighbourhoods by the downtown core (Kitchener) are really starting to look worn and they are starting to be overrun by drug addicts.  (so heart breaking).  The  big park (Victoria) is now over run by Canadian geese and their poop.  It is pretty gross which is unfortunate because it should be a wonderful place.

Uptown neighbourhoods by the uptown core (Waterloo) are going to be much more expensive than 750 and also run the problem of student housing (UofW and Laurier students).  We have now built a bunch of high rises close to the universities trying to contain it but now those neighbourhoods feel like a wind tunnel with hardly any sun hitting the sidewalks.  It feels horrible.  (Columbia & King, Waterloo)

Some areas in Doon in Kitchener is over run with students from Conestoga College otherwise Doon is quite nice, feels small town like.   

If I were moving here I would consider Laurelwood (close to Laurel Creek Conservation Area) but more than 750; Rosemount (close to Rockway gardens and Y) probably close to 750.

Overall, KW is a nice place to live and raise a family.  Good jobs, decent schools, not a lot of gang activity, etc.  Feels a bit like a small town but has all the amenities of a city.  It is a quick hour up to Pearson so that is nice for traveling.  Saying all that, we will be moving once we retire...need to be by a lake.  It takes about 90 minutes to get to a decent beach...totally land locked and some days it feels like it!

If anything else crosses my mind I will come back and add it!

[Freedomin5]

Thank you, @Margie ! This is very helpful and is exactly the kind of information I was looking for! DH went to UofW over 20 years ago; it sounds like things have changed a lot since then.

I've been looking at realtor.ca, and the housing prices are rather ridiculous. We are now thinking perhaps a townhouse, or a fixer-upper SFH, in the Laurelwood, Clair Hills, or Beechwood area. I'll also add Rosemount on my list. We may have to adjust our budget up by a hundred thousand or so.

We also very briefly considered Kitchener as prices are a lot lower, but given what you've said, I think we will scrap that idea.

Doon was not on my radar, but I'll put it on my list. Are there specific areas / intersections in Doon that I should consider...or that I should avoid?

Also, are there areas outside of the immediate KW area that are up-and-coming that we could consider?

[Margie]

 in the Laurelwood, Clair Hills, or Beechwood area

*Maybe you could find a townhouse in these areas for 750 but definitely you will not find a single family home.

In Doon I would just avoid the neighbourhood right beside the school; once you get a bit further (even 5 min) it is nice again.  Close to the pathways and park area are very nice. 

I would say Kitchener-Waterloo is still a nice community and the advantage of Kitchener is house prices are lower and property taxes are lower.  There is still the old stereotype of Kitchener being 'blue collar' and full of factories.  That is no longer a reality but people hold on to it a little bit.  There are some very nice renovated buildings in the downtown core that holds some start ups - check out the tannery for one example.  (Victoria Street at Charles)

Some houses have been torn down and/or renovated if they are a long the LRT tracks...I have not ridden the LRT but apparently it is nice and it is the same fee as normal buses.  It runs from Fairway Mall (Kitchener) to Conestoga Mall (Waterloo).

Some smaller communities towards Elmira might be something to look at - hawkesville or Linwood.  Nice, quiet, family orientated but you will need your own car for sure.  The communities to the West  - New Hamburg or Baden are all expensive now and they are very commuter like so I am not sure how 'neighbourly' they feel. 

Going towards Cambridge, like Ayr or Paris might be an idea.  I have not lived in either but they have nice downtowns and seem very community minded given their support of minor sports, kinsmen clubs, etc.

[Freedomin5]

With the housing market cooling, I'm holding out hope that we will be able to afford a small fixer-upper single family home in the next year or two! :)

Also, apparently, we have financing in place and can afford a property up to $900 to $1M, so that should make it easier to find something suitable.

[Deano]

I have lived in Waterloo-20+ years ago. It isn't the same Waterloo....it's overpriced and over-driven. Yes, it has big-city amenities without really being "The" big-city, the schools are fine (really, 90% of schools in Ontario are more than adequate for a great education), the surrounding countryside, what hasn't been eaten up by development, is really lovely.

I'm not sure what has set your heart on Waterloo, but Cambridge is actually a pretty great place-close enough to KW to make it easy for work purposes if you work there. Cheaper as well. Not to suggest Waterloo is a bad choice overall, but maybe good to hear other experiences?

Currently I am in Brantford. It gets a bad rap, but everyone in my family walks/bikes to work/school and all activities. The Grand River is, well, pretty grand-endless trails and incredible sunsets over the river valley. You can be at a beauty beach in 45 minutes and Hamilton, with all that it has to offer, which is just as much as KW, is about 25 minutes east. Every activity for kids is within at most a short drive. There is a University and a College downtown-near the casino which is a blight on Brantford.

We live in the nicest neighbourhood in the city in an awesome house that cost half of what you're looking at (bought in 2017). I think prices are headed back down (average price went from 900+ to around 700+ in the past few months!) so you might be able to find something in a year or two for far less than what you are thinking.

The bad? Bike infrastructure is still in its infancy. People experiencing homelessness and addiction with the accompanying challenges (no worse than Kitchener though, don't think those social issues aren't in KW). Some schools have challenges-but even then some of them have really improved dramatically in the past 3 or 4 years. You have to pick your neighbourhood, but it's pretty easy to land in a nice spot.

Just my take-oh, GTA is arguably easier to get to from Brantford than Waterloo. I walk to the Via station and in 1 hr and 7 minutes I am downtown Toronto.

[Freedomin5]

Thanks, Deano! This is helpful. I'm flexible, but DH is a UW grad and kind of has his heart set on Waterloo.

We were both raised in TO and knew that we didn't want to live in TO, especially since we are FI and don't really need to be close to where most of the jobs are.

Just out of curiosity, which neighborhoods are considered the nicest neighborhood in Brantford? Holmedale? Lansdowne? Henderson?

[Deano]

Holmedale/Ava Heights is a great place to live. The places on/near the river are amazing. A great range of house styles, great lots and very quiet. The section of Holmedale towards downtown changes a bit, but that's a fair ways a way from what I'm talking about. Henderson lacks the neighbourhood feel, but has some nice homes. The north-end has some great houses, but is very suburban-not bikeable so much. Echo Place is nice as well, but fairly far out. West End is vast and suburban, south is rough as a bears arse.

Not sure when your DH left Waterloo, but if it was a while ago, it's worth a visit if he hasn't been back. It really isn't the same and I can't say it's an improvement. It's not bad by any stretch, but it doesn't feel the same, that's for sure.

Best of luck, I think your timing could end up being really great-prices are still moderating. Or crashing really, at least from the peak.

Oh, yes, Kitchener, if you're hot for KW, stay in the W, the K isn't as nice. As long as you can afford it.

[Freedomin5]

Holmedale/Ava Heights is a great place to live. The places on/near the river are amazing. A great range of house styles, great lots and very quiet. The section of Holmedale towards downtown changes a bit, but that's a fair ways a way from what I'm talking about. Henderson lacks the neighbourhood feel, but has some nice homes. The north-end has some great houses, but is very suburban-not bikeable so much. Echo Place is nice as well, but fairly far out. West End is vast and suburban, south is rough as a bears arse.

Not sure when your DH left Waterloo, but if it was a while ago, it's worth a visit if he hasn't been back. It really isn't the same and I can't say it's an improvement. It's not bad by any stretch, but it doesn't feel the same, that's for sure.

Best of luck, I think your timing could end up being really great-prices are still moderating. Or crashing really, at least from the peak.

Oh, yes, Kitchener, if you're hot for KW, stay in the W, the K isn't as nice. As long as you can afford it.

Thanks! I'll definitely check out those neighborhoods!

[Gerard]

If you haven't spent much time there in the past 20 years or so, might it make sense to rent for a year and just explore the crap out of the nearby neighbourhoods?

[Freedomin5]

Good idea. We’re planning on doing that this summer. We kind of already know which schools we want, and the goal is to live a walkable/bikeable distance from school, so we’ve already narrowed down our preferred neighborhoods to a few areas. I spent years living in the snowbelt (London, Ontario), so we are pretty familiar with walking in Canadian winters.