Camp Mustache Toronto: "CMTO 2022: FIREscape"

[Le Poisson]

Hello everyone and welcome to the new and improved CMTO 2022 - FIRE-scape thread with all the news that's new and improved on our camp just a couple hours from Toronto. Here you will find all the important details, meet your camp friends, and find out the things you never learned in school about how we roll at CMTO - FIRE-scape.

IMPORTANT DETAILS:

1. What is CMTO - FIRE-scape - these events are a chance for like-minded folks to get together and talk through paths to success, future planning, fun and games, and all the pieces that fit together to build the puzzle that is a Mustachian life. We are calling this event a FIRE-scape because it strays from our usual bunk-bed camp and has gone "Deluxe" with hotel rooms, pools, and all the fancy stuff.

2. Where is CMTO 2022 - FIRE-scape - this year's event is taking place at a venue midway between Toronto and Ottawa/Montreal. Travel is best arranged to one of the following airports: Ottawa, Toronto, or Syracuse. There is also regular train service to Belleville Ontario, and you could get a cab from there into camp. I do not know what cab fare would be. Highway coaches (buses) also serve Belleville - try Megabus. UBER is not dependable in Belleville.

The venue is hotel-style and includes an indoor pool, an indoor/outdoor pool, weight room, grounds, etc. On the Lake Ontario shore. There are wineries, bike tours, fishing, and beaches nearby for day outings.

3. When is CMTO 2022 - FIRE-scape - Plot Twist!!! OUR DATES HAVE BEEN CHANGED - camp will be on September 30th to October 2nd. A conflict with the venue booking has bumped our dates to the last weekend in September.

4. How much is a ticket to CMTO 2022 - FIRE-scape: Prices are to follow, we will keep them as affordable as possible.

5. Who should come to CMTO 2022 - FIRE-scape? You, obviously, but also all your friends from here and the FIRE community, in fact lets start the discussion there and we can all talk about that...

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May 10, 2022:

FIREscape UPDATE

Last night there was a meeting. It was intense. Words like "collaboration" and "cross-functional" and "Ameliorate" were tossed around. Someone even wore a tie. We thought outside the box and flew ideas up the flag pole to see who saluted. Things are taking shape.

So here's all the stuff you've been waiting to find out.

1. Dates remain unchanged: September 30, Oct 1, 2.
2. Cost: We anticipate a per person cost of $175 plus your room and some meals.
3. Inclusions: Your ticket includes all the wonderfulness of CMTO-FIREscape plus meals on Friday. Your hotel room will have to be booked with the hotel itself at a cost of $95 per night. You can get a double bed (sleeps 2) or two double beds (sleeps 4). Some will opt for a room to themself.
4. Meals: we include lunch and a group dinner on Friday, and the hotel includes breakfast with your room however Saturday lunch and dinner and Sunday lunch will be "Fend for yourself." We chose this arrangement because there is a large catering fee to eat at the site, and arranging catering for all meals with different vendors was going to be a logistical nightmare. Note: by not including all meals we cut the ticket price by about $100 per person. Catering is expensive, and you can do better than we could.
5. Speakers: we still need a few more presenters. Currently we are heavy on lifestyle stuff and need a few more technical presentations. If you want to share strategies or do a case study, let me know.
6. Post-FIRE panel: We would like as much diversity as possible on the panel this time. In the past we've done targeted panels, this go round we'd like to hear from more folks with more ideas. Please raise your hand.
7. Kids and pets: this will be the most kid-friendly camp so far. With multiple pools, a waterslide, playgrounds adjacent to the picnic site, fishing onsite, wide open grass fields to kick balls around, etc. I think most kids would be happy here, however, parents may miss sessions to parent, so weigh that in mind against the gramma tax of dropping them off with relatives for the weekend. There is also a dog park adjacent to the site, however I do not know if the hotel is pet friendly. I would suggest dogs stay home. We are not bringing ours.
8. BEACH DAY!!! Overwhelmingly we saw support for a camp-ending beach day, so we are rolling with it. Pack a swimsuit - I'm bringing mine!

[Lews Therin]

I'm interested. What will happen next in our protagonists' story?

[deborah]

This is absolutely fantastic! I’ll be able to go (or at least enter the pool for tickets)! I know it means a lot more work for the organisers, but I’m thrilled!

[goat_music_generator]

Sounds great, thanks for organizing! PTF.

[grantmeaname]

Thanks for moving this! I'm glad I don't have to cancel my dad's birthday. Poor guy would have been so disappointed...

[G-dog]

Thanks for moving this! I'm glad I don't have to cancel my dad's birthday. Poor guy would have been so disappointed...

Bring him along!  Dad, you’ll never guess what I got you for your birthday!

[Sailor Sam]

I’m going to attend, god willing and the hurricane don’t rise. The end of September is prime hurricane season. Also, I’m going to be teaching children, who apparently need structure and for their teacher to show up. Etc.

[okits]

I'm thrilled about the new dates, I can definitely attend!!!

I am also excited over this point:

I will tell you that rooms are for 2-4 individuals, and priced per room rather than per person, and will be billed separately from your CMTO "pass".

As an introvert who snores and keeps odd sleeping hours I will salute all the frugal folks who are going to roommate up to quadruple occupancy... then get a room just for myself. 

For any Mustachians who have been curious about these multi-day events but hesitant over having to find a roommate (or rooming with someone you just met), or for anyone who worries about being peopled out without a quiet space to retreat to, this is a huge new feature. If having your own space is really important, being able to have your own room makes CMTO 2022 - FIRE-scape a good opportunity to see how you like a multi-day gathering of Mustachians.

Looking forward to money nerding and introverting with you all in the fall. 😃

[FIFoFum]

De-lurking to say that I'm in!

[oneday]

😞 I cannot make those dates.

[Dicey]

😞 I cannot make those dates.

Me neither, but I think I know where the after party is going to be...

Kudos to everyone who is doing the behind-the-scenes work to make this happen.  Love the new name, too!

[RetiredAt63]

Putting your new date in my calendar - you are starting on the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation.  Good start!

[oneyearfromnow]

I am intrigued!  Posting to follow….

[Le Poisson]

😞 I cannot make those dates.

Intel!
Me neither, but I think I know where the after party is going to be...

Kudos to everyone who is doing the behind-the-scenes work to make this happen.  Love the new name, too!

Thanks folks!

We had a minor heart attack with the new dates since this puts us back-to-back with Moab, but then after a few minutes of talking things through we realized that this is actually a really good chance to reboot after a couple years of slacking and that the wider community connections and extended FIRE focus might be just what is needed, so we're embracing it. And Moab has happened the weekend after CMTO before, so there is no need to panic.

Momma and I are still planning on going to both events. We see the FIRE-scape as our chance to give and lead and Moab as a chance to lay back and relax - unless @NinetyFour has us up every morning at the butt-crack of dawn bagging peaks or something. :)

I’m going to attend, god willing and the hurricane don’t rise. The end of September is prime hurricane season. Also, I’m going to be teaching children, who apparently need structure and for their teacher to show up. Etc.

So intimidating. I'll have to reach back to the venue to see if they can hold quarters that are equipped with crusty socks and mobile furniture, as per your usual arrangements.

Thanks for moving this! I'm glad I don't have to cancel my dad's birthday. Poor guy would have been so disappointed...

Bring him along!  Dad, you’ll never guess what I got you for your birthday!

G-Dog - I hope you make it! It'll be just like the good old days! I haven't basked in the glow of your majestic presence in too many years!

(That's a "They might be Giants" reference in case you didn't know)

Thanks for moving this! I'm glad I don't have to cancel my dad's birthday. Poor guy would have been so disappointed...

Is your Dad getting Jiffy for his birthday?

Sounds great, thanks for organizing! PTF.

Thanks for posting! Now I'm posting to follow your post to follow. Lets see where this vortex leads us to!

😞 I cannot make those dates.

This is a great loss. I'm sorry... but also, we'll see you in Moab, right? Save me a seat by the fire!

This is absolutely fantastic! I’ll be able to go (or at least enter the pool for tickets)! I know it means a lot more work for the organisers, but I’m thrilled!

Deb, your streak goes unbroken! Even if you hate Canadian beaches.

De-lurking to say that I'm in!

Awesome! Can't wait to catch up with you again!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Folks, things are jumbled mess and I'm not sure who I missed replying too. Let's make this thing awesome. All of us.

[rockstache]

I'm PTF. This seems pretty far-fetched for me, but DH has been talking about coming to meet all my internet friends, and maybe he'll be interested in dragging the kiddos away for a Canadian weekend. Perhaps we'll give it a go depending on the details. I really miss you all.

[Sailor Sam]

I’m going to attend, god willing and the hurricane don’t rise. The end of September is prime hurricane season. Also, I’m going to be teaching children, who apparently need structure and for their teacher to show up. Etc.

So intimidating. I'll have to reach back to the venue to see if they can hold quarters that are equipped with crusty socks and mobile furniture, as per your usual arrangements.

Hilarious.

[shadowmoss]

I'll just have to meet you guys when you get to Moab.

[Cannot Wait!]

Count me in!

[Jessa]

I’m going to attend, god willing and the hurricane don’t rise. The end of September is prime hurricane season. Also, I’m going to be teaching children, who apparently need structure and for their teacher to show up. Etc.

Oh good, i was going to tag you. Roommates?

[oneday]

😞 I cannot make those dates.

Intel!
Me neither, but I think I know where the after party is going to be...

Kudos to everyone who is doing the behind-the-scenes work to make this happen.  Love the new name, too!

I will be at the after party! 🥳

Yes, you guys are doing a lot of work in a short time. It is commendable, and I am impressed. Your commitment to community building shines through.

[Sailor Sam]

I’m going to attend, god willing and the hurricane don’t rise. The end of September is prime hurricane season. Also, I’m going to be teaching children, who apparently need structure and for their teacher to show up. Etc.

Oh good, i was going to tag you. Roommates?

NO TOUCHING.

[Novik]

Exciting! Looking forward to hearing more as this develops.

[Le Poisson]

I’m going to attend, god willing and the hurricane don’t rise. The end of September is prime hurricane season. Also, I’m going to be teaching children, who apparently need structure and for their teacher to show up. Etc.

Oh good, i was going to tag you. Roommates?

NO TOUCHING.

Are you guys sharing the crusty sock, or should I have the hotel supply 2?

[Le Poisson]

I'm PTF. This seems pretty far-fetched for me, but DH has been talking about coming to meet all my internet friends, and maybe he'll be interested in dragging the kiddos away for a Canadian weekend. Perhaps we'll give it a go depending on the details. I really miss you all.

I think this location will be more kid-friendly than our previous venue. I mean, there's a WATERSLIDE! and a park, and you can toss them in Lake Ontario if they get on your nerves. Plus the ability to book a room for your family, or to share with another family and swap off baby duty.

Or (oooh) one of those rooms with a door between them to make a double room!! Momma and I should do that and put the boys in their own room.

That would be a good idea. I wrote it on my to-do list.

This may even be driving distance from the east coast, depending on whether your name is @grantmeaname or not.  I get 7-1/2 hrs driving time from Boston via Watertown.

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On a different note, is there anyone who would like to volunteer to watch for changes to travel rules for folks crossing the border?  It would be good if we had person who is in tune with current travel restrictions and rules who can update the thread if restrictions are added or lifted between now and the end of September.

We need a person who can watch for entry rules in Canada, and a person who can keep in touch with airline rules and re-entry rules for Americans returning home. Or we can just have an open competition to see who can post updates soonest after they happen.

[rockstache]

I'm PTF. This seems pretty far-fetched for me, but DH has been talking about coming to meet all my internet friends, and maybe he'll be interested in dragging the kiddos away for a Canadian weekend. Perhaps we'll give it a go depending on the details. I really miss you all.

I think this location will be more kid-friendly than our previous venue. I mean, there's a WATERSLIDE! and a park, and you can toss them in Lake Ontario if they get on your nerves. Plus the ability to book a room for your family, or to share with another family and swap off baby duty.

Or (oooh) one of those rooms with a door between them to make a double room!! Momma and I should do that and put the boys in their own room.

That would be a good idea. I wrote it on my to-do list.

This may even be driving distance from the east coast, depending on whether your name is @grantmeaname or not.  I get 7-1/2 hrs driving time from Boston via Watertown.

Oh ho, the bolded is an excellent thought depending on cost!

We are definitely not driving, especially as we're not in Boston anymore. Add about 18 hours to your total and I suspect that's what it would take!

[Jessa]

I'm PTF. This seems pretty far-fetched for me, but DH has been talking about coming to meet all my internet friends, and maybe he'll be interested in dragging the kiddos away for a Canadian weekend. Perhaps we'll give it a go depending on the details. I really miss you all.

I missed this!!! THIS WOULD BE SO AWESOME.

[okits]

I’m going to attend, god willing and the hurricane don’t rise. The end of September is prime hurricane season. Also, I’m going to be teaching children, who apparently need structure and for their teacher to show up. Etc.

Oh good, i was going to tag you. Roommates?

NO TOUCHING.

Are you guys sharing the crusty sock, or should I have the hotel supply 2?

I think we have a sock pipeline if @Road To Avonlea attends.  This could be the luxurious rack experience where they can each have their own pair.

We really take care of you at CMTO - FIRE-scape.

[Lews Therin]

I'll request all my friends also orders those socks.

[okits]

I'll request all my friends also orders those socks.

Well that settles it.  I propose the following Day 1 Agenda Item: Icebreaker / "Are These the Warmest Free Socks You've Ever Tried?" discovery activity.

What you do with the socks after the activity is each attendee's private business. 🧦

[Sailor Sam]

You people need to be corralled.

[Le Poisson]

You people need to be corralled.

You gonna reef on us?

[Lews Therin]

You people need to be corralled.

You gonna reef on us?

Shoal-y not?

[arebelspy]

Following!

I'm very likely in, if I can get a ticket. :)

[Le Poisson]

Following!

I'm very likely in, if I can get a ticket. :)

Exciting!! It's nice to see so many folks following along. We'll flesh out details soon. Not sure how soon though. Because layers. But I better get my butt in gear soon, eh!

[Le Poisson]

Would folks be interested in a Basic Belt making workshop? You'll have to pay for materials, but you'll come away with a belt you made yourself, and the knowledge to make more if you want to.

And before Lews says anything, no, this is not a "belt," it is just a belt.

[Lews Therin]

Well played Sir Herring. You red my mind.

Maybe we could crowd source subjects of interest? Ask what people would like to hear about?

[Le Poisson]

Hey I just had a great idea. We should crowd source subjects of interest. What are people interested in?

[Lews Therin]

Social life after FIRE.

[happy]

These new dates look promising!

[vector]

Social life after FIRE.

+1

V

[vector]

Following!

I'm very likely in, if I can get a ticket. :)

Exciting!! It's nice to see so many folks following along. We'll flesh out details soon. Not sure how soon though. Because layers. But I better get my butt in gear soon, eh!

I know it's still early days, but do you have an idea if a lottery will be required like for the last camp? I'm planning on some overseas travel in September and I have to decide way in advance to make arrangements for an early return.

Regards,
V

[Le Poisson]

Following!

I'm very likely in, if I can get a ticket. :)

Exciting!! It's nice to see so many folks following along. We'll flesh out details soon. Not sure how soon though. Because layers. But I better get my butt in gear soon, eh!

I know it's still early days, but do you have an idea if a lottery will be required like for the last camp? I'm planning on some overseas travel in September and I have to decide way in advance to make arrangements for an early return.

Regards,
V

Good Question. I don't think we'll have time for all that a lottery entails, so likely we will put them up for sale and once the tix are sold, that's it. It'll be like trying to get front row seats to see Van Halen or something. Might as well jump.

[Le Poisson]

More, other news that even the organizing committee hasn't heard yet (sorry organizing committee).

I had a meeting on Friday with the local tourism board and they are super excited to see us. They suggested a bunch of local venues to replace the traditional Friday afternoon canoe trip and a handful of local partners that may work with us for different things. In light of that who would be interested in:

Workshops:
- visiting a local bike shop for a one-on-one with a small business owner to talk ethical business and how small biz can make big differences locally
- visiting a local bike shop for a one-on-one with a bike mechanic for tips on bike shopping, tweaks to improve your ride and "ten things your bike mechanic doesn't want you to know"

Group outing ideas for Friday afternoon:
- local brewery for "A pint and a paddle" - a beer tasting followed by a kayak outing
- Rum runners and secret spaces - a local history walking tour to explore prohibition era secret spaces and see how the underground liquor trade worked. Prince Edward County was on teh liquor pipeline to upstate New York, and locally the booze flowed south. The tour wraps up with a cocktail hour in a local speakeasy.
- Wine Tour and diner - by far the most expensive option, but also a lot of fun - tour a vineyard, see wine production first hand, have a tasting of local wines and then return to the main dining hall for dinner pairing with local wines.
- Beach day! - by far the cheapest option - pack a hamper of lunch and head to a local beach for fun in the sun.

Tell me your favourites, and we'll go from there.

Also, I have a line on local bike rentals, I'm working on what that would look like. I HIGHLY recommend bringing a bike if you have one, but also, security at the venue is iffy. One outdoor bike rack in an unlit, quiet corner.  J1 and I took a walk from teh venue to the lunch zone and it's about a ten minute walk. That would be 2 minutes on really nice trails on a bike. At dusk, it was still a very nice walk.

[Lews Therin]

Rum & beach.

Pirate style.

[arebelspy]

Beach day, or a long walk (I'd say hike, but less elevation change than that implies). Nature with chatting.

[okits]

That walking tour about the Prohibition era sounds amazing.

Beach sounds like a decent venue for small group discussions. 😄🏖

[Stashasaurus]

Being a beach bum sounds great.

[RetiredAt63]

Not the beer.  The others all sound great.

[goat_music_generator]

Walking tour, beach day, and bike shop all sound fun to me.

Spounse and I don't really drink, so we're generally not interested in stuff that's centered around alcohol. (No shade if that's what others want to do, just count us out.)

[Sailor Sam]

No sand.