Author Topic: What benefits of NBN am I missing?  (Read 2564 times)

Fresh Bread

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What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« on: January 28, 2020, 03:03:07 AM »
NBN hits my street in April!

We currently pay $59.99 and get "up to" 24 Mbps (although it is patchy) on our ADSL2+. When NBN comes we will get 10Mbps for that price. We'd have to pay $74.99 to actually get faster speeds. We only use about 50GB of data a month so unlimited data on the higher priced & faster plans is of no value.

Are there other benefits I'm missing? Anecdotally two people I know locally that have NBN say it's shit.

Telstra gets 45Mbps download speeds according to google. I've tried using my phone as a hotspot and it works really well. So when NBN arrives I could just buy the ALDI $45 plan and get 60GB a month.

Does anyone exist without wi-fi and just use mobile data? In theory I've got personal data on Telstra and work on Optus, so if one network goes down, which does happen, we'd be ok.

mrcheese

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2020, 07:46:01 AM »
I use "mobile broadband" because I live in a crappy Telstra velocity monopoly area that will never get the nbn.
I get 250G for $40 a month via spintel which uses the Optus network and I like it. It's a proper looking wifi router but I could take it anywhere and plug the socket in and it would work just like a hotspot.

mjr

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2020, 03:40:24 PM »
NBN is a massive white elephant, forced on us for political reasons.  A huge monopoly, with all the poor service and inflated prices that you get from a monopoly.

I'm avoiding moving to it for as long as possible, but will have to take the plunge this year....

Shaz_Au

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2020, 04:41:54 PM »
Hi FB,
I'm an IT Pro, the flavour of NBN you receive will have a big impact on your experience.

We have FTTN, its perfectly fine for our use, our heaviest usage would be a couple of concurrent Full HD streams.  We pay $59.95 for 25/5Mbps 250GB (no phone) with Aussie Broadband.  It's not the cheapest deal but they do offer the best aussie based support with no lock-in contracts.   You can save a couple of bucks like we did if you pick your monthly quota rather than an unlimited plan.  FYI our usage has gone up since moving to the NBN, 100GB use to be plenty, now streaming defaults to FullHD rather than the lower quality settings ADSL defaulted to (720P).  We don't have any issues with congestion or slower than advertised speeds.  It's not quite as reliable (maybe an outage once a month) compared to the old ADSL service we had but it is improving and its definitely faster than ADSL.

From a technological and long term financial perspective NBN definitely made mistakes! FTTN is an already obsolete technology on an ancient copper network but I'm just grateful that I'm not on Fixed Wireless, they have it really rough!

Fresh Bread

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2020, 10:08:09 PM »
Hi FB,
I'm an IT Pro, the flavour of NBN you receive will have a big impact on your experience.

We have FTTN, its perfectly fine for our use, our heaviest usage would be a couple of concurrent Full HD streams.  We pay $59.95 for 25/5Mbps 250GB (no phone) with Aussie Broadband.  It's not the cheapest deal but they do offer the best aussie based support with no lock-in contracts.   You can save a couple of bucks like we did if you pick your monthly quota rather than an unlimited plan.  FYI our usage has gone up since moving to the NBN, 100GB use to be plenty, now streaming defaults to FullHD rather than the lower quality settings ADSL defaulted to (720P).  We don't have any issues with congestion or slower than advertised speeds.  It's not quite as reliable (maybe an outage once a month) compared to the old ADSL service we had but it is improving and its definitely faster than ADSL.

From a technological and long term financial perspective NBN definitely made mistakes! FTTN is an already obsolete technology on an ancient copper network but I'm just grateful that I'm not on Fixed Wireless, they have it really rough!

Thanks for your input, that's very helpful.

I looked up my address and it says I'll get FTTC, Fibre to the Curb and then copper to inside my house. Would that be inbetween FTTN and FTTP in terms of speed?

I read this article in The New Daily today and somewhere in it, or maybe the comments, it says if you've got copper anywhere, don't pay for a high speed plan as the copper will slow it down. Would that be fair?

https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/tech/2020/01/28/broadband-speeds-australia-oecd/

I'll look up the plan you've got, since it's what I'm paying now and there doesn't seem any point in paying more. If it's terrible a non-lock in contract means I can bin it and use 4G. I am worried though as not one single person connected in my area is having a good time. They can no longer watch Netflix (horrors). Someone in the eastern burbs of Sydney is doing just fine though.

Fresh Bread

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2020, 10:09:31 PM »
I use "mobile broadband" because I live in a crappy Telstra velocity monopoly area that will never get the nbn.
I get 250G for $40 a month via spintel which uses the Optus network and I like it. It's a proper looking wifi router but I could take it anywhere and plug the socket in and it would work just like a hotspot.

Bizarrely there's no Optus reception in my house. Telstra is fine though. Is that 250Gb a month for $40? Sweet deal.

Fresh Bread

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2020, 10:12:38 PM »
NBN is a massive white elephant, forced on us for political reasons.  A huge monopoly, with all the poor service and inflated prices that you get from a monopoly.

I'm avoiding moving to it for as long as possible, but will have to take the plunge this year....

Yep I get you, it does all seem pointless, but how is it any more of a monopoly than whoever owns the current network or ADSL? Genuine question as I don't know who installed it or who owns it.

From what I understand, you can't avoid the NBN. Once it's connected, there's no more ADSL. You don't get to choose when NBN arrives and when it does, your only choice is 4G or NBN. Sucks.

mjr

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2020, 10:36:35 PM »
how is it any more of a monopoly than whoever owns the current network or ADSL? Genuine question as I don't know who installed it or who owns it.

Telstra built out the original infrastructure, including the copper local loop and was of course a monopoly.  In the late 80s, the Government declared that monopolies were bad and set about deregulating the telecommunications industry.  Optus was chosed to be the initial major competitor and they set up their mobile network and long-haul backbones and strung cable to access residences in metropolitan areas.  Since then, in the broadband space there are many Internet providers, most of whom set up their own ADSL and cable switches and multiplexers and business support systems and they pay Telstra for the use of the local loop.

Enter the NBN.  Instead of allowing companies to use their corporate initiative to service their different markets as cost-effectively as possible with whatever technologies were approrpiate, the Government of the day (no names, I'm trying to not turn this into a political discussion) decided that the NBN must use fibre where possible and service all Australians for the same price regardless of where they live.  So it builds a massive new monopoly, paid for by the Australian taxpayer and as cost-effectively as all government-owned organisations do.  A later Government decided that the NBN had bitten off way more than it could chew but couldn't back out of its contracts and now we're left with a bastard hybrid where the NBN has to pay Telstra for use of the copper where higher speed access mechanisms aren't cost-effective.

What we taxpayers now own is an asset that cost a fortune to build and we as consumers have to pay through the nose to use so that a return can be generated from the billions of dollars it cost.  It's all off-budget and in reality worth only a fraction of what we paid for it.

From what I understand, you can't avoid the NBN. Once it's connected, there's no more ADSL. You don't get to choose when NBN arrives and when it does, your only choice is 4G or NBN. Sucks.

Yep.  Correct.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 11:31:44 PM by mjr »

Fresh Bread

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2020, 11:15:05 PM »
Ok thanks. I read that the price of the fibre technology blah blah something has been falling so it might not have been as big a blowout as expected to just install the same stuff that the rest of the OECD has. How did they all manage it? I assume high costs here are down to the same reason everything else here gets expensive - trying to cover a massive country equitably and give people reasonable options for living a 21st century life outside of the big cities.

I'm off to google how much it costs to privately install fibre from my house to the curb. And also Google which electorates got FTTN and which got FTTC :P
UPDATE: I think something like $2k, which is exactly what I guessed!! If I was working in the interwebs from home I'd do it, but just for Netflix, probably not.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 11:27:05 PM by Fresh Bread »

Fresh Bread

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2020, 11:28:38 PM »
Also, just want to say that since the NBN contractors have been digging holes and fiddling in my street, my ADSL has gone quite bad. I thought maybe they were tampering so I won't notice that NBN isn't that great :D

mjr

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2020, 11:29:56 PM »
Copper can be pretty fast for the short distance from the curb to the premises and then individual connections will slow down anyway if there's wifi in the connection to the device. I doubt it'd be worth it to try and get fibre for the last section and then you'd have to ask do you even need that extra speed ?

Fresh Bread

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2020, 11:39:31 PM »
Copper can be pretty fast for the short distance from the curb to the premises and then individual connections will slow down anyway if there's wifi in the connection to the device. I doubt it'd be worth it to try and get fibre for the last section and then you'd have to ask do you even need that extra speed ?

Well I was only really considering it because people on the next street and near suburbs are basically stuffed now they are on NBN. I'm busy trying to find out their connection. The person one street away should have FTTC so bit worrying. I don't understand how it can be worse than ADSL, unless of course they bought the basic package.

middo

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2020, 12:13:41 AM »
I use mobile data only.  No land line, no ADSL, no NBN.  My wife and I both have 10Gb per month on a $30 plan, with rolled over data.  I think we both have around 100 Gb rolled over and waiting.

We don't have netflix.  We watch iview or sbs as a treat on holidays or if we missed an episode of something we were really enjoying.

Its plenty to "surf the net", if you aren't addicted to youtube or similar.  And it's fast enough to stream normal TV, and do messenger face calls etc.

We probably won't change until our phones need updating, or a much better offer comes along.

mjr

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2020, 01:27:28 AM »
[Well I was only really considering it because people on the next street and near suburbs are basically stuffed now they are on NBN. I'm busy trying to find out their connection. The person one street away should have FTTC so bit worrying. I don't understand how it can be worse than ADSL, unless of course they bought the basic package.

I don't yet have NBN and although I am an electrical engineer who knows a bit about data communications, I don't pretend to know how NBN have built their network.

But people having trouble with NBN is unlikely to be due to or be able to be fixed by replacing the last 20m of copper with fibre.

Fresh Bread

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2020, 01:57:50 AM »
[Well I was only really considering it because people on the next street and near suburbs are basically stuffed now they are on NBN. I'm busy trying to find out their connection. The person one street away should have FTTC so bit worrying. I don't understand how it can be worse than ADSL, unless of course they bought the basic package.

I don't yet have NBN and although I am an electrical engineer who knows a bit about data communications, I don't pretend to know how NBN have built their network.

But people having trouble with NBN is unlikely to be due to or be able to be fixed by replacing the last 20m of copper with fibre.

Maybe it will settle down once the whole area is done?

Shaz_Au

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2020, 05:20:11 PM »
I don't know much of the technical details about NBN's FTTC solution or whether there is any chance of congestion like is possible at the node on a FTTN solution and which, is the major pitfall of NBN Fixed Wireless.  It is a preferred solution over FTTN as you remove 100's of metres of old copper between you and the new network, with no disruption on your premise like there would be with FTTP.

To minimise possible issues you could make sure the phone wiring in your home is up to scratch, it is a common cause of the speed problems people complain about with the NBN.  Ideally you would only have one socket wired directly back to the telstra termination point on the side of your house.  The socket would be located in a suitable central location to maximise your wi-fi signal throughout your home.  You don't want multiple unused sockets, daisy chained sockets, cabling that is 30+ years old and has been half chewed on by possums, mice, etc.

Also if you have a monitored alarm system or another device that uses your current phone line you will need to upgrade this too as it will stop working.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2020, 05:22:24 AM »
I switched to the NBN a few months back, and the increase in upload speed is very useful if I want to sync my photos to the cloud or anything similarly upload dependent. The 1mbps upload of ADSL2+ is glacial for any such things.

It works just fine for me (HFC 100/40 with Aussie Broadband), but it's $25 per month more than I was paying for ADSL. I could switch it to 50/20 to save a few bob (and probably should), but I'd only save $10-15.

I use about 150-200GB a month (I used less before, but now I stream a lot of YouTube). I considered switching to mobile data (especially when my usage was lower), but mobile data speeds where I live aren't great with any of the carriers.

It's been reliable, more reliable than my ADSL2+ in fact. I'm happy enough with NBN, although it'd be nice if it was cheaper. HFC seems to get pretty close to the 100mbps limit of the service, I've got family on FTTN that don't get a service anywhere near as good.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 05:24:15 AM by alsoknownasDean »

catprog

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2020, 02:28:54 AM »

Enter the NBN.  Instead of allowing companies to use their corporate initiative to service their different markets as cost-effectively as possible with whatever technologies were approrpiate, the Government of the day (no names, I'm trying to not turn this into a political discussion) decided that the NBN must use fibre where possible and service all Australians for the same price regardless of where they live.  So it builds a massive new monopoly, paid for by the Australian taxpayer and as cost-effectively as all government-owned organisations do.  A later Government decided that the NBN had bitten off way more than it could chew but couldn't back out of its contracts and now we're left with a bastard hybrid where the NBN has to pay Telstra for use of the copper where higher speed access mechanisms aren't cost-effective.


My interpretation of what happened.

They actually tried the competing company model before. It ended up with a patchwork of streets where you could get fast internet from one of two companies while other streets did not get anything. And then one company gave up due to losses while the other stopped expanding.

So the government decides one network that any ISP would be able to connect to is the way forward. They look to leverage the current network and find the company wants to charge too much and so they will need to do a new network. They look at what it will cost to build the new network and the cost of laying new fibre is not that much more then laying new copper. They also try to negotiate with the existing company and one of the companies conditions was they would have excluse access to it.

They do negotiate to use  the current ducts and they start building the backbone and the government changes.

The new government decides no matter what we can't use fibre and they negeotiate a new deal to use the existing copper instead(unlike the previous government who realized it was a bad deal). In fact the current system will actually lay new copper instead of fibre.



From a technological and long term financial perspective NBN definitely made mistakes! FTTN is an already obsolete technology on an ancient copper network but I'm just grateful that I'm not on Fixed Wireless, they have it really rough!

We were on 1MB ADSL on a good day. We now have a decent 25MB fixed wireless connection which is so much better.

I think the stories about fixed wireless are people who were in the fixed line area who were moved to fixed wireless.

marty998

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Re: What benefits of NBN am I missing?
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2020, 07:29:30 PM »
Finally got connected this week!

Decided to go with Belong. Pretty easy to get it sorted out all things considered... once the NBN techs came around they ran the cable into my dining room and had me set up immediately. In and out in about an hour.

No complaints from me so far. But a small part of me wishes the government recoups more of the cost from the big tech companies making billions out of this. Facebook, Netflix, Google, even our very own Atlassian....