Author Topic: Early Retirement Australia  (Read 11563 times)

bigchrisb

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2018, 05:18:09 AM »
I always took the approach that it was financially better to self insure, so didn't hold life, income or trauma/tpd insurance. I still maintain that if you have no dependants and positive net worth that life insurance is a waste.

However, my mind changed about trauma, tpd and income protection while in the accumulation phase - and now believe that it's more important for us than the average punter - as it's a fairly short career in accumulation you need to insure.

Of course, my opinion is biased, as I ended up with a condition that meets trauma insurance. I was super lucky - as part of the business sale I was able to take over a trauma policy that used to be key person insurance. After about 6 months back and forward with the underwriter, it paid out about 600k, at a point where I was already fi. It changed dealing with the condition from manageable to very comfortable.

It's expensive, but I'd now recommend it.

kiwiozearlyretirement

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2018, 09:08:29 AM »
I agree with bigchrisB when you are accumulating, that loss of income would make a big difference and it's not like you are insuring  it for a 40 year career if you plan to retire early. However, the premiums are so high especially if you are insuring a high income. I have a colleague who pays $12000 a year to insure 80% of their salary. Another colleague calculated by the time he was over 60 he had spent the equivalent of 1 million dollars on insurance.
Every year my premium seems to increase by $500 and every year I find ways to cut it. For example I have so much sick leave accumulated I pushed the start date out to 90 days. Also I only insured up to age 55 as I should be retired by then anyhow. They keep indexing the amounts with inflation to go up by 5% so I cut that back to a fixed amount the family needs to be financially independent if I die. Which thankfully decreases every year as our nest egg grows.
But I had to cut the amount insured so dropped it down to just over the annual expenses so we will not have to draw on our investments to supplement our lifestyle. Of course you must anticipate that expenses will go up if you are incapacitated. But then sadly you probably won't be spending large on travel and sports so it may even out. At least income protection is tax deductible. You guys are a savvy lot so maybe there is room for more optimising. I am paying $2260 annually to insure 78000 annual income. 90 day waiting, insured till 55. Female professional age 45 with no health issues, non smoking. Has anyone found a deal cheaper than that? You can often find something cheaper with the starting discount but then it reverts and I'm not sure I can be bothered changing. Does anyone have a regular policy with a company they trust for less than that?

itchyfeet

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2018, 12:35:54 PM »
I find all this quite interesting as someone who has rolled the dice without insurance.

I remember when we took on our monster mortgage to buy a place in Sydney’s inner west and at that time I toyed with getting income protection, but the premiums were so high. In the end I decided that I’d just sell if I ever lost my job and cop the loss, if that was how it turned out. DW was in a govt job so I thought it improbable we’d both be unemployed at the same time.

But, I know now that I am older and wiser, that bad shit does happen. Probably if I had my time again I’d properly assess the risk rather than just dismiss it. I know we got lucky.

bigchrisb

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2018, 12:58:12 PM »
If I were being brutal in optimising, I'd probably skip the income protection insurance - you don't need a salary from 25 to 55 if you are only accumulating for 10 years.  Likewise, I'd run the risk on becoming unemployed - finding a new job is in your control.  However, I would take out trauma or tpd insurance to guard against disability or serious illness for the amount missing from your stash, then lower the policy amount as the stash got closer to target.  That means you have the biggest policy when you are youngest and with the lowest premiums, and tapering down as you get older.

When the policy was first taken out, I was about 30, and 500k of life, tpd and trauma was around a grand a year if you had no pre existing or hereditary issues.

Grogounet

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2018, 10:29:07 PM »
the only thing that i have done in your list that you have not is that i went with an insurance broker. i could no beat him on price. i have got to $1 300 this year for income protection and was $1 000 last year. and my salary is above yours i have asked 75% coverage. might be worth exploring

kiwiozearlyretirement

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2018, 03:23:51 AM »
the only thing that i have done in your list that you have not is that i went with an insurance broker. i could no beat him on price. i have got to $1 300 this year for income protection and was $1 000 last year. and my salary is above yours i have asked 75% coverage. might be worth exploring

Hi Grogunet,

Do you think your policy is own occupation? i.e. if you can't do your job due to a head injury they might get you a road working job operating a stop go sign (no offence to road workers). Who was the insurance broker? I have looked through I select and compare the market. Was $1000 your first year and now it is $1300. They often have a high discount for the first year and then count on you not changing again. Who is the company you are insured with?

Grogounet

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2018, 04:45:46 AM »
Hi there Kikiwozearlyretirement,
You are correct, your occupation does play. and the more "risk" is perceived the more you'll pay.
For my job, the stress factor, which can cause heart disease and so on was the "risk".
I'm with Onepath.
More than happy to give you the details of my broker, PM me, I'm not affiliated to him but finds him good to get me a better price I can get otherwise !
Cheers

conwy

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2019, 10:12:38 AM »
I've never wanted to completely quit work. Rather, I would like to work only part of the year and relax the other part, all while building a financial cushion that covers the risks of not having a full-time permanent job.

My broad plan, built around frugal living, semi-retirement and non-super investments:

PHASE 1: EARNING
• 2020 (age 33): Start with $200k in super and $700k outside super.
• 2021-2027 (age 34-40 or so): Work hard and live frugally to get non-super up to $900k.

PHASE 2: SEMI-RETIREMENT
• 2028-2053 (age 40-65): Semi-retire: work half the year and relax the other half.
  > To make this possible, I will:
    * Live frugally, on less than 3% of my net worth ($30k p/year).
    * Take a 6-month contract work engagement every 6 months.
    * During my time off, keep my skills sharp so I can score the next gig.
    * Keep savings in a high-interest account, adding extra padding to the budget.
  > During this period, I will invest $5k p/year into super and $5k p/year into non-super.

PHASE 3: RETIREMENT
• 2054+ (age 65+): By the time I get to 65, based on contributions and compound interest:
  > My super will have appreciated to $1.6M.
  > My non-super will have appreciated to $2.4M.
  > I will still be living on $31k p/year (2019 dollar equiv).
  > Healthcare costs will have been covered so far, via a combination of working extra months where needed, Medicare and health insurance.
  > I will have a total income of $122k p/year, so my standard of living can go up by near 4x.
  > On that kind of income, should be easy enough to afford a nice rental apartment, healthcare, trips overseas, helping out friends here and there, etc.

Assumptions:

• Non-super grows at 3% p/year after fees, taxes and inflation
• Super grows at 5% p/year after fees, taxes and inflation
• I can bill at least $500 p/day, pre-tax, pre-super, as a contractor
• I start with $700k in non-super by the age of 33
• I start with $200k in super by the age of 33
• I work full-time for 2-5 more years to add ~200k to non-super
• I can draw-down 3% income post-retirement.

What's the worst that can happen?

• I need extra money (holidays, healthcare, emergencies, etc). Then I just work extra months.
• The stock market plunges. So what? I'm living off income from my 6-month-per-year job.
• I can't get a job in my area. I'll just move to where there's work.
• I can't get a job anywhere. Ok, then I'm screwed, but so are most other people probably!
• Zero or negative growth in my investments. Fine, I never get to retire, but at least I get to enjoy a life of permanent semi-retirement.
• I die before turning 65. As above, I still got a taste of retirement while I was alive!

What's the best that can happen?

• I earn more than $500 p/day (which actually happened with most contracts I ever had).
• I occasionally get asked to work longer than 6 months, and I enjoy the work enough to say 'yes' (which has actually happened many times).
• My investments grow at a higher rate than expected (entirely possible, with technology & innovation, the rise of Africa, US/China eventually resolving their trade issues, etc).
• I don't have any costly health expenses (so far so good, and I eat healthy and keep fit).
• I find ways to reduce my cost of living even further, e.g. cheaper meals, cheaper places to rent, using a bike instead of public transport, etc.

The beauty of living on 3% of my non-super net worth is that, at any point in my life (if the stock market doesn't crash, or maybe even if it does) I can quit work altogether and completely retire forever. If I needed to pay for healthcare, I could probably pick up work to earn extra income to pay for it, plus there's always Medicare. And when I eventually turn 65, I have access to an additional $1.6M of funds.

Seems like a plan!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 12:24:13 PM by conwy »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2019, 12:08:07 PM »
Comwy, I’m not sure where to start. Your plan makes no sense to me whatsoever. How are you 33 in 2020 but 40 in 2024?  You want to spend 25 years living on $30k and then spend life from 65 onwards living on $122k? And you want to spend those 25 years consistently working half the year and chasing new 6 month contracts?  I don’t get it.

Anyways, you do whatever floats your boat. Check out a book called the 4 hour work week. Also, ready every article MMM has written, yep, all 300. You’ve got time. After you read that, then think about the type of life you want and see if your plans change from what you’ve written. Also, in between, travel a bit and see the world, grow as a human. Then shape your plan more. You need a better, more realistic plan of what your life is going to be.

conwy

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2019, 12:24:49 PM »
Comwy, I’m not sure where to start. Your plan makes no sense to me whatsoever. How are you 33 in 2020 but 40 in 2024?  You want to spend 25 years living on $30k and then spend life from 65 onwards living on $122k? And you want to spend those 25 years consistently working half the year and chasing new 6 month contracts?  I don’t get it.

Anyways, you do whatever floats your boat. Check out a book called the 4 hour work week. Also, ready every article MMM has written, yep, all 300. You’ve got time. After you read that, then think about the type of life you want and see if your plans change from what you’ve written. Also, in between, travel a bit and see the world, grow as a human. Then shape your plan more. You need a better, more realistic plan of what your life is going to be.

Apologies, had to correct some of the figures! Please re read.

conwy

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2019, 12:45:40 PM »
How are you 33 in 2020 but 40 in 2024?

Fixed. 33 in 2020, working hard until I'm 40, which is in 2027.

You want to spend 25 years living on $30k and then spend life from 65 onwards living on $122k?

Well I can only afford to live on $30k if I work only half the year, according to my assumptions about earnings, etc.
And that's fine. I'm perfectly happy to live in modest accomodation, cook my own food, use public transport, etc, in exchange for having half of my life to myself rather than my whole life to the employer.

And you want to spend those 25 years consistently working half the year and chasing new 6 month contracts?  I don’t get it.

I enjoy the thrill of the chase. And I'm pretty good at interviewing and getting work, so I want to play to my strengths.

I would rather begin to retire earlier on a lower income, rather than spend half my life working like a dog so I can *maybe* get to retire when I'm old and grey.

I mean, that's what this movement is all about isn't it?

Anyways, you do whatever floats your boat. Check out a book called the 4 hour work week.

I don't understand that book. I've read a bit about it - it seems like he's talking about automating and outsourcing repetitive processes. Which sounds intelligent and smart, except that I don't have any processes to automate! I live such a bare-bones, frugal, minimalist life already that I can't think of anything I'd want to pay someone else to do.

Hire an accountant? My tax affairs are pretty simple as it is, I can just do it myself.
Financial advisor? I just put money in an index fund.
Correspondence? I barely have any. All my emails are directly work-related, so I'm the only person in a position to write them.

Also, ready every article MMM has written, yep, all 300. You’ve got time. After you read that, then think about the type of life you want and see if your plans change from what you’ve written.

Will keep reading, as he definitely has some good ideas.

But I think the kind of life I want involves some work and some leisure. I do enjoy my job. Just not 11-12 months of the year. I would  enjoy my work more if I got to really focus on it for 6 intense months at a time, and spend the rest of the year relaxing, travelling, recuperating, etc.

Imagine if you went to the gym and just started lifting weights non-stop, without even taking 30 sec breather. It would quickly get exhausting and you'd end up dropping the weights. Instead, if you take lots of breaks and breath properly, you can keep the workout going for 1 hour and get much fitter and also enjoy it more. That's how I want my career to be - lots of breaks, lots of fresh air, lots of time to recuperate.

Also, in between, travel a bit and see the world, grow as a human. Then shape your plan more. You need a better, more realistic plan of what your life is going to be.

I definitely plan on travelling, in fact I'm already working abroad, and over the next few years I will be working in 2-3 additional new countries (getting the visa for one of them sorted right now).

I want to work + travel rather than just travel, as I want to keep building up my investment portfolio, especially during these crucial early years where compounding has the most opportunity to work.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 12:50:40 PM by conwy »

deborah

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2019, 02:42:55 PM »
I have known people who do parts of this. There was a contractor I worked with once who lived in Magnetic Island and kept on getting 6 month contracts, as well as some others. It can work for some people, and you are probably one of them.

Rework your plan to work six months of the year until you’re 50, and see what it looks like. Employers tend to be a bit shy of employing even the best workers after that age, and the people I knew who had this lifestyle found that they struggled after 55, and found it more difficult to find jobs after 50. After 60, the market seemed to dry up completely, and these were all good people, who did excellent work, and who’d had no problems getting work when they were younger. They started to have problems later on because they spent more than you plan to, and didn’t realise just how much work was drying up, until it had gone completely for a few years.

There are a number of life events that can happen. There are many people - even on this forum - who’ve had accidents or suddenly developed life long debilitating conditions. Insurance can cover some of these things, but working six months on and six months off, you possibly wouldn’t be covered. For instance, in Australia, if you have an accident that causes you to reduce your working hours, you are covered for loss of income, but when I had one, because I was contracting and had less than six months continuous employment history, I wasn’t covered.

I’d rework the plan to also assume that something like this happened after a few years, and see whether it is too close to the edge for you.

conwy

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2019, 04:14:39 PM »
Really interesting feedback there, deborah, thanks!

I hear what you're saying about contracts being difficult to come by after 50.

If I keep working full-time until I'm 40, and on the same income as now, and then work 6 months on / 6 months off until I'm 50, then I can probably reach $2M by age 50, about $61k p/year income.

Fingers crossed ... hopefully that would pay for medical expenses.

Then at 65 I'd get access to the 1.3M super, and boost my yearly income to $110k, hopefully enough to pay for anything.

I guess it's a tricky balance to strike.

A) work less, semi-retire earlier, take more risk, but get to live life more on my own terms.

vs.

B) work more, for longer, take less risk with health, but still, nothing is guaranteed, even with $5M in the bank.

Gremlin

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #63 on: May 26, 2019, 09:09:52 PM »
Conwy,

I have a couple of questions...

1.  How did you get to $700k outside of super plus $200k in super at age 33?  If you're billing $500 a day and living off $30k and you're already where you're at, getting a further $200k by age 40 should be a cinch.

2.  Significant other?  Kids?  How do these fit in?

3.  What is the lifestyle you want?  If you're happy living off $30k pa until you're 65, why then would you be looking at quadrupling your spend?  What is it that $120k gives you at age 65, if you're expecting to be perfectly happy on $30k at age 64?

I'm a huge believer in delayed gratification, but if you're genuinely happy with a $30k pa lifestyle then you've probably already won the game.  Conversely, if it's not what you want then maybe you should think about what changes can be put in place to address that, even if that means spending slightly more in the interim (there is a lot of wiggle room between $30k and $120k).  Spending the next 30-odd years convincing yourself you'll be happy when you finally reach 65 is not a path to happiness or health.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2019, 04:30:53 PM »
Conwy,

I have a couple of questions...

1.  How did you get to $700k outside of super plus $200k in super at age 33?  If you're billing $500 a day and living off $30k and you're already where you're at, getting a further $200k by age 40 should be a cinch.

2.  Significant other?  Kids?  How do these fit in?

3.  What is the lifestyle you want?  If you're happy living off $30k pa until you're 65, why then would you be looking at quadrupling your spend?  What is it that $120k gives you at age 65, if you're expecting to be perfectly happy on $30k at age 64?

I'm a huge believer in delayed gratification, but if you're genuinely happy with a $30k pa lifestyle then you've probably already won the game.  Conversely, if it's not what you want then maybe you should think about what changes can be put in place to address that, even if that means spending slightly more in the interim (there is a lot of wiggle room between $30k and $120k).  Spending the next 30-odd years convincing yourself you'll be happy when you finally reach 65 is not a path to happiness or health.

+1.

Nothing he wrote made sense to me.

conwy

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2019, 12:20:48 PM »
> 1.  How did you get to $700k outside of super plus $200k in super at age 33?  If you're billing $500 a day and living off $30k and you're already where you're at, getting a further $200k by age 40 should be a cinch.

The $500 p/day is very conservative and based on a worst-case scenario. For the past 4-5 years I've been billing nearly double that (though it doesn't come out exactly dobule after tax, of course). Prior to the past 4-5 years I worked as hard as I could to secure contract after contract, each time bargaining very hard and getting multiple offers, then bargaining up each client to the highest possible rate they could afford, then picking the highest paid one. Also worked pretty hard on each project, resulting in positive testimonials, repeat work and even the odd referral. I also lived in shared accommodations and/or shared a room, saving as much as I could. I've been working since I was 16, and even programming on my own before then, so I had a bit of a head-start, but without a degree it still took a good number of years to build up to this point.

After all that, I can now look forward to AI and offshore workers taking my job. :)

> 2.  Significant other?  Kids?  How do these fit in?

Not enough time, energy or money for any of those. I've been mostly single and celibate my whole life.

> 3.  What is the lifestyle you want?  If you're happy living off $30k pa until you're 65, why then would you be looking at quadrupling your spend?  What is it that $120k gives you at age 65, if you're expecting to be perfectly happy on $30k at age 64?

I'd be more than happy living off $30k *at the moment*, but I don't know about at 65...

One thing that concerns me is healthcare costs. I don't know if you listened to Suze Orman's FIRE interview (you can find it on YouTube). Healthcare can get very expensive as you get older, and if you're unemployed then insurance doesn't cover you so well. Maybe this is more an American thing, as we Aussies have Medicare, but I still worry that Medicare won't be enough to cover me if I catch some awful disease or condition that could be prevented and lessened by getting treatment sooner and at a higher quality. Perhaps health tourism might be an option though. I've heard some countries like Israel are very advanced in their healthcare and not as expensive as Australia or the UK, even including the flight costs.

Another thing that concerns me is inflation. I don't want my living costs to be so close to my income, I'd rather there be a bit of a buffer, just in case. I can imagine after 20 years from now that I might want to splurge on a really nice few nights in a Vegas hotel or a 2-month holiday in Vanuatu. I don't think I could afford that on 30k. Doesn't mean there's no ceiling to how much income I want. I think on a $100k income (factoring out inflation) I would be completely content to retire.

> I'm a huge believer in delayed gratification, but if you're genuinely happy with a $30k pa lifestyle then you've probably already won the game.  Conversely, if it's not what you want then maybe you should think about what changes can be put in place to address that, even if that means spending slightly more in the interim (there is a lot of wiggle room between $30k and $120k).  Spending the next 30-odd years convincing yourself you'll be happy when you finally reach 65 is not a path to happiness or health.

True, and I have maybe been obsessing too much about the figures and not looking enough at the bigger picture of life, health and happiness!

mrmoonymartian

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2019, 08:57:16 PM »
Are you sure a real $100k/yr will be enough for all 1 of you? Sounds a bit barebones to me. What if you need to go to vegas or vanuatu more than once a year?

deborah

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2019, 06:57:30 PM »
I've just tried to listen to that podcast. It got too much for me about halfway through when it rapidly became more of a Suzy Orman sales pitch. She had valid points, but she sees everything from the perspective of a very very rich person.

Everyone will be alive at 95? Sorry, but Australia has one of the highest life expectancies of any country, and it's currently about 80, whereas it was 68 when I was young. And it appears to be going down at the moment. People who have life throw them curved balls don't tend to live as long as others. When people are elderly and decrepit and need to go into a nursing home, they don't tend to stay there long, because they generally die within 3 years.

The government is betting on it, because if you have enough money to need to pay extra government mandated fees (this doesn't include optional extra services that the nursing home provides like hair cuts), you don't need to pay them once you have been there for some short period of time which I seem to recall is three years. Similarly, if you have home care packages, you have to pay up to $29 a day (the minimum is $10.50 I think) every day of the year no matter what level of home care package you get and how much service you get, but you don't have to pay after you have reached a limit within a year, and you don't have to pay for more than 3 years. So, in Australia, things get expensive for a while, and then they don't. Being old and frail is expensive, but not too expensive. The government is trying to get you to pay what you can without making you destitute.

You do, however, need to own a home, since most government allowances don't value the difference between renting and home ownership properly.

She's also assuming that you're not in index funds, that you haven't included maintenance in your budget (home maintenance, appliance maintenance and replacement, car maintenance and replacement...). But, we all do include those things before we pull the plug on work.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #68 on: June 08, 2019, 08:52:45 PM »
Life expectancy is still going up:

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths-in-australia/contents/life-expectancy

The easiest way to get over a fear (hope!!) that you will live to 100 is to have a very conservative withdrawal rate. In my case I am aiming for a withdrawal rate of 0 - I want all my expenses to be met by passive income. Also, my partner doesn't intend on retiring when I do (she'll still be in her 30s at that time, and she wants to keep working) so I guess we will build a buffer over time.

I have huge concerns about the sustainability of the pension system and in any case most FIRE adherents won't be eligible for a pension, so that's safely out of our thinking. Likewise, given the super release age is 65 or something like that, it's of very limited relevance for those who plan to retire early, except as a late supplement to your withdrawal rate.

mrmoonymartian

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #69 on: June 08, 2019, 09:24:00 PM »
If your withdrawal rate is zero, it means all income is being reinvested. If you've got investments returning 4% income and you spend that, your withdrawal rate is 4% (or 3.85% if you want to include the return in the calculation).

Preservation age is 60 for anyone young enough to be concerned about it. I doubt it will be changing in a hurry. There'd be middle-age spreads rioting in the streets if they changed that without grandparenting the existing accounts.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #70 on: June 08, 2019, 09:46:54 PM »
Interesting. I thought the concept of a withdrawal rate referred only to withdrawal of principal, adjusted for inflation [in general I assume that invested shares/equity will at least track inflation, meaning that if you only skim off dividends and rent the equity remains whole and wd rate = 0], and disregarded spending of passive income.

deborah

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2019, 11:00:23 PM »
Interesting. I thought the concept of a withdrawal rate referred only to withdrawal of principal, adjusted for inflation [in general I assume that invested shares/equity will at least track inflation, meaning that if you only skim off dividends and rent the equity remains whole and wd rate = 0], and disregarded spending of passive income.
No.

deborah

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2019, 12:22:23 AM »
Life expectancy is still going up:

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths-in-australia/contents/life-expectancy

That graph shows a definite flattening at the moment, and some of the latest data show it going down slightly, but within statistical error. It’s not going up like it was earlier. There has been some speculation that baby boomers are skewing things by not caring enough for themselves and living the fast life.

However, life expectancy is just a figure. My parents are both in their 90s and frail (that’s why I have a bit of information in my head about elderly benefits). My SOs parents both lived into their 90s. So I guess we may both live into our 90s. And statistically, one of a couple is likely to live into their 90s, so if you’re an early retiree couple, you should aim for your stash to last into your 90s. The benefits I was talking about are what’s available to anyone, since @conwy was talking about fat FIRE rather than bare bones FIRE. My entire family considers it a sin to be on the pension, so I’m less knowledgeable about it despite coming from a very long lived family.

happy

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2019, 07:17:52 AM »
One of the strongest predictors of life expectancy is how long parents and relatives have lived. If you have a lot of people who've lived til they are 90 then its much more likely that you will too.

Average length of stay in a nursing home (at least in NSW) is nowhere near 3 years. A couple of decades ago it was 18months and I'm sure we are down to less than 9 months now.

Abundant life

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Re: Early Retirement Australia
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2019, 06:43:37 PM »
I wonder if that is because people are reluctant to go into one until the bitter end when they have no choice?
I did a tour of a new-ish nursing home a few years ago. They were converting one floor which had been 50/50 high care/low care to 100% high care because they explained, people did not want to go into a nursing home until much later.
There also seems to be a push to provide services at home.