The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: sistastache on September 01, 2016, 10:19:43 AM
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Hello fellow mustachians!
I will be taking part in a panel that will be discussing kitchens and how they may change in the next few years, to next few decades. While the other members of the panel will certainly reflect the ideals for the more typical consumer, I thought this would be a great opportunity to have your unique perspectives.
Based on the following five topics, I would love to know your thoughts on one, or all of each. Tell me:
Do you find this idea interesting? Why or why not?
Have you noticed this trend in the home (inside or outside of the kitchen)? What existing products come to mind to help achieve this goal or idea?
What product/ technology/ organization could be added to a kitchen (or bathroom, or laundry room) to help with this goal?
Here are the following ideas or goals to consider:
1. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that mirror an industrial or commercial kitchen
2. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that is inspired by the modular and small space solutions in Asia
3. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that helps homeowners feel they are less wasteful
4. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that incorporates sensor technology to monitor cabinet contents and activity
And the last, isn't really mustachian, but I would still like your ideas on the topic:
5. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that reflect home-owners that eat out far more than they eat in (how would a kitchen change? what would the space prioritize?)
Please let your imagination run wild! No idea is too outrageous! Maybe your idea isn't suited for a mustachian, but would work for a typical consumer? I want to know it all!
Thank you all in advance for your thoughts!!
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I've never understood why stainless steel countertops aren't more popular.
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I'm with you on that! The are super sanitary and for tidy homeowners- you can see all the crumbs on the counter tops! Maybe they are concerned with scratches from using it as a work surface? I haven't priced them out lately, but could they be that much more expensive than a quartz top these days to be prohibitive to a consumers budget?
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Hello fellow mustachians!
I will be taking part in a panel that will be discussing kitchens and how they may change in the next few years, to next few decades. While the other members of the panel will certainly reflect the ideals for the more typical consumer, I thought this would be a great opportunity to have your unique perspectives.
Based on the following five topics, I would love to know your thoughts on one, or all of each. Tell me:
Do you find this idea interesting? Why or why not?
Have you noticed this trend in the home (inside or outside of the kitchen)? What existing products come to mind to help achieve this goal or idea?
What product/ technology/ organization could be added to a kitchen (or bathroom, or laundry room) to help with this goal?
Here are the following ideas or goals to consider:
1. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that mirror an industrial or commercial kitchen
I don't know about about mirroring a industrial or commercial kitchen, but it does occur to me that a simple oven, cook top, hood, microwave no longer meets the needs of a lot of cooks. Gadgets have gotten so cheap, and so useful, it seems like many more of them would be incorporated into a kitchen's layout. I'm thinking of something like you see on cooking shows, where in a relatively compact space, you have oven, cook top burners, grill top, hibachi/griddle top, fryer, sink, prep space, blender, spice rack/cabinet, etc.
A lot of this is accomplished by modern kitchens and newer stoves (having a grill surface, or grill surface and griddle that can be interchanged), but it still seems like the appliance cabinet is underutilized. I would like to have multiple appliance cabinets on the countertop, with mixer and blender in one, fryer in one, sous vide/crock pot in one, etc. That way, when you need things, you don't ahve to dig around in cabinets. You have your appliances you use often right there. You just lift the lid, slide them out, and when you're done, you just clean what portions need to be cleaned and slide them right back and you still have a clean looking countertop. This obviously takes up a lot of countertop space up under the normal high cabinets, but I'm not sure that space is that useful anyway, and you can always just have a deeper countertop/base cabinet to make up for it.
This only makes sense for people that cook a lot and do different things, so I'm not sure it would be popular, but it seems like we've had a trend of people wanting high end kitchens that look like they're made for a cook, adn this would just be taking it a step further and actually making it functional for a cook, while still allowing it to be clean and attractive when not being used.
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My kitchen is about 30 years old (except refrigerator) and used daily. I'll be "updating" it piecemeal at some point, but that'll really just be refinishing/painting some things, and updating appliances as needed. Utility-wise, what works 30 years ago still works today, and will probably work in 30 years. I don't really see anything new fundamentally changing the way a kitchen works in a any significant way. The most recent kitchen invention that truly changed anything is probably the microwave.
5. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that reflect home-owners that eat out far more than they eat in (how would a kitchen change? what would the space prioritize?)
Ironically, I've noticed that the people that do the really fancy kitchen remodels tend to be the ones that cook the least. One of my bosses just did a ~$80k kitchen remodel. It's gigantic and gorgeous, but they almost never cook. It's just for looks. Dumb.
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Thanks Ketchup, you're right that the overall nature of the kitchen probably won't dramatically change. We'll still need to cook and store food. The most recent industry shake-ups were in the 70's?? when an open floor plan started to come into popularity. Beyond that, maybe an increase in accessible spaces (allowing for different abilities/ heights) to better interact with the kitchen appliances/ cabinets and work surfaces.
I used to work as a kitchen and bath designer, and I designed a number of "show kitchens." They were decked out with the latest and greatest that were never used. If the family did cook, they did it in a 10' X 10' kitchen in the basement. Cray.
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I don't know about about mirroring a industrial or commercial kitchen, but it does occur to me that a simple oven, cook top, hood, microwave no longer meets the needs of a lot of cooks. Gadgets have gotten so cheap, and so useful, it seems like many more of them would be incorporated into a kitchen's layout. I'm thinking of something like you see on cooking shows, where in a relatively compact space, you have oven, cook top burners, grill top, hibachi/griddle top, fryer, sink, prep space, blender, spice rack/cabinet, etc.
A lot of this is accomplished by modern kitchens and newer stoves (having a grill surface, or grill surface and griddle that can be interchanged), but it still seems like the appliance cabinet is underutilized. I would like to have multiple appliance cabinets on the countertop, with mixer and blender in one, fryer in one, sous vide/crock pot in one, etc. That way, when you need things, you don't ahve to dig around in cabinets. You have your appliances you use often right there. You just lift the lid, slide them out, and when you're done, you just clean what portions need to be cleaned and slide them right back and you still have a clean looking countertop. This obviously takes up a lot of countertop space up under the normal high cabinets, but I'm not sure that space is that useful anyway, and you can always just have a deeper countertop/base cabinet to make up for it.
This only makes sense for people that cook a lot and do different things, so I'm not sure it would be popular, but it seems like we've had a trend of people wanting high end kitchens that look like they're made for a cook, adn this would just be taking it a step further and actually making it functional for a cook, while still allowing it to be clean and attractive when not being used.
Jrr85, this is a really interesting idea. We have definitely become a gadget society, and access/ storage is a problematic area. I really like the idea of finding new ways to incorporate those appliances into the design or the actual area where they would be used! What came to mind when you mentioned this was a flip up appliance- similar to an old sewing cabinet, where the machine flips up out of the cabinet.
There is definitely a trend for being able to close off the spaces to keep these clean appearances. There is a push for modular "zones" that fully encapsulate everything in that area, with big doors to close it off, almost like a wardrobe cabinet.
This exists on a smaller scale with appliance garages, but you are right, they take up a lot of counter space!
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I hope that stainless steel appliances are banished from the earth. They came with my current house and I'm too cheap to replace them, but they are a bitch to get and keep clean.
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I have a different thought on this topic. With drones becoming more and more common I see people forego cooking almost entirely and simply order "15 minute drone delivery" from restaurants in the area. People could quickly get almost any food they want and all they'd have to do is walk to the front door. Won't even need to tip the delivery person. This arrangement would be cheaper for restaurants as well, since they would not need as much seating or have to employ bus boys, dish washers, etc.
I did a quick search and apparently it's already happening...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/26/technology/dominos-drone-new-zealand/
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I hope that stainless steel appliances are banished from the earth. They came with my current house and I'm too cheap to replace them, but they are a bitch to get and keep clean.
Lol, you are not alone in that! Stainless steel appliances are epitomize the popular "thing" of the early 2000's. The reaction to stainless is (at least in the industry) is starting to be as cringe worthy as suggesting an Avocado or Harvest Gold finish. The problem is that there is no clear replacement. Black is almost as challenging to keep streak free. There are some stainless steal cleaners out there that are made from Unicorn tears, or something, that apparently work well, but you still have to constantly keep after it!
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I have a different thought on this topic. With drones becoming more and more common I see people forego cooking almost entirely and simply order "15 minute drone delivery" from restaurants in the area. People could quickly get almost any food they want and all they'd have to do is walk to the front door. Won't even need to tip the delivery person. This arrangement would be cheaper for restaurants as well, since they would not need as much seating or have to employ bus boys, dish washers, etc.
I did a quick search and apparently it's already happening...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/26/technology/dominos-drone-new-zealand/
That would definitely shake up life! I can see others now "You have a kitchen? So passe". BookValue, do you think the kitchen would take a back seat to the great room as the heart of the home? Maybe that square footage would be dedicated to home offices so we could work longer to pay for out food budget!!
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I hope that stainless steel appliances are banished from the earth. They came with my current house and I'm too cheap to replace them, but they are a bitch to get and keep clean.
Lol, you are not alone in that! Stainless steel appliances are epitomize the popular "thing" of the early 2000's. The reaction to stainless is (at least in the industry) is starting to be as cringe worthy as suggesting an Avocado or Harvest Gold finish. The problem is that there is no clear replacement. Black is almost as challenging to keep streak free. There are some stainless steal cleaners out there that are made from Unicorn tears, or something, that apparently work well, but you still have to constantly keep after it!
Mineral oil seems to work as well as unicorn tears, but you still have to clean them ALL THE TIME. I cleaned the white appliances in my previous house only when they looked grimy, which was not very often.
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Stainless steel countertops - which I've seen at IKEA - always make me think it looks like you're planning to do autopsies, not dinner.
I was interested by an article I read last year that said that increasingly, high end kitchens include a butlers pantry, where the messy food prep is actually done, out of sight of the actual kitchen, because that's for display.
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I find none of these ideas appealing!
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I find none of these ideas appealing!
I agree.
More than any room in the house (other than maybe the bathroom) -- functionality is of utmost importance.
We eat almost every meal in, maybe go out once every week or two to lunch. I need lots of cooking space, functional counters, and storage for appliances, food prep, etc.
A small cute and pristine kitchen might look nice but I'd go nuts in a day if there's no space for my cuisinart or instantpot, etc.
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Stainless steel countertops - which I've seen at IKEA - always make me think it looks like you're planning to do autopsies, not dinner.
I was interested by an article I read last year that said that increasingly, high end kitchens include a butlers pantry, where the messy food prep is actually done, out of sight of the actual kitchen, because that's for display.
There is certainly something to this, especially when paired with the very popular white kitchen. This can start to take on a very sterile and unwelcoming appearance.
Butlers pantries are becoming more and more sized like kitchens for all they are expected to do. The challenge is to dedicate the additional space in the home!
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I hope that stainless steel appliances are banished from the earth. They came with my current house and I'm too cheap to replace them, but they are a bitch to get and keep clean.
Lol, you are not alone in that! Stainless steel appliances are epitomize the popular "thing" of the early 2000's. The reaction to stainless is (at least in the industry) is starting to be as cringe worthy as suggesting an Avocado or Harvest Gold finish. The problem is that there is no clear replacement. Black is almost as challenging to keep streak free. There are some stainless steal cleaners out there that are made from Unicorn tears, or something, that apparently work well, but you still have to constantly keep after it!
Mineral oil seems to work as well as unicorn tears, but you still have to clean them ALL THE TIME. I cleaned the white appliances in my previous house only when they looked grimy, which was not very often.
pbkmaine, how would you feel about incorporating the appliances into the cabinetry? There is a price factor here, but would you prefer to see them (actually not see them because they) blend in with the adjacent cabinetry?
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This has me thinking about my ideal, money-is-no-object kitchen. I will never have this kitchen, because money is ALWAYS an object with me, but here goes:
Aga stove, in some offbeat enamel color.
White cabinets. Lots of them.
Some sort of separate microwave/coffee/appliance nook, with pantry cabinets on each side.
Separate fridge and freezer, paneled to match cabinets.
Two-drawer dishwasher, also paneled to match cabinets.
Recycled glass countertop.
Enormous dining table with a stone top, set in a window nook with a big cushioned window seat.
Dining chairs that could double as easy chairs, so that you are tempted to linger at the table for hours.
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Here is what I do want: an island or counter like the ones on great british bakeoff. So functional! So versatile! Love it!
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How about those things on the Starship Enterprise..what were they called? Where you just said "Earl Grey, hot." or whatever, and there was your food or beverage.
In terms of stainless steel countertops, I agree with whoever said you see too much of that in the morgue. Autopsies are done on those stainless steel tables. Bleahh.
I have a small mid-century house, with old but in-good-shape laminate countertops, and a couple of bisque appliances that need to be replaced. I almost planned for stainless steel, but am going to leave the countertops alone in their funkiness, and look for new bisque appliances. For my "kitchen of the future", I'm going retro...want some warmth and charm. In terms of supplies, workspaces, etc.--it is pretty much organized with the simple, minimalist basics. Not a lot of gadgets and junk. Nothing really "modern" per se, but very efficient and easy to cook in. Shop at Aldi, cook from scratch, eat at home.
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I find none of these ideas appealing!
I agree.
More than any room in the house (other than maybe the bathroom) -- functionality is of utmost importance.
We eat almost every meal in, maybe go out once every week or two to lunch. I need lots of cooking space, functional counters, and storage for appliances, food prep, etc.
A small cute and pristine kitchen might look nice but I'd go nuts in a day if there's no space for my cuisinart or instantpot, etc.
honeybbq- do you like how your current space accommodates your storage needs? Do you think there is something that would make your kitchen flow more efficiently or storage more effective?
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This has me thinking about my ideal, money-is-no-object kitchen. I will never have this kitchen, because money is ALWAYS an object with me, but here goes:
Aga stove, in some offbeat enamel color.
White cabinets. Lots of them.
Some sort of separate microwave/coffee/appliance nook, with pantry cabinets on each side.
Separate fridge and freezer, paneled to match cabinets.
Two-drawer dishwasher, also paneled to match cabinets.
Recycled glass countertop.
Enormous dining table with a stone top, set in a window nook with a big cushioned window seat.
Dining chairs that could double as easy chairs, so that you are tempted to linger at the table for hours.
This is really helpful!! In your dream kitchen, do you think you would want an easy way to change the look of your cabinets? Maybe the color or glass inserts (maybe green and red for the christmas holiday, then something else for the summer for example)?
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Here is what I do want: an island or counter like the ones on great british bakeoff. So functional! So versatile! Love it!
Those islands are amazing! Once you get into something that is, what, 7' long... the options abound!
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The only things, functionally, that I see lacking in 20- and 30-year-old kitchens are electrical access and garbage.
My kitchen was originally built in 1958 with two electrical outlets: one in the corner for the fridge and one by the sink because people were not thinking clearly. When I remodeled, I added like 6 more GFCI outlets, a few with USB ports.
I also have separate space/containers for municipal trash, compost, recyclables picked up by my municipality, and recyclables which need to be collected and taken elsewhere. (I hope as my area gets with it a bit over time, this will be streamlined.)
As for the small appliance issue (VitaMix, Crock-Pot, etc.), those tambour door/appliance garage things that were so popular for hiding toasters and such in the 80's and 90's are removed and thrown directly into the trash in nearly 100% of the kitchens I work on. Same with all of the desk/homework/bill paying areas integrated into kitchens at that time. Both sound like they're great ways to improve efficiency of the kitchens, and both are being eliminated in favor of plain old drawer bases and wall cabinets.
I wonder how much of that is because the VitaMix and KitchenAid stand mixers are high-class decorative elements meant to be displayed as opposed to the old plastic-clad toasters people wanted to hide away 20 years ago.
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How about those things on the Starship Enterprise..what were they called? Where you just said "Earl Grey, hot." or whatever, and there was your food or beverage.
In terms of stainless steel countertops, I agree with whoever said you see too much of that in the morgue. Autopsies are done on those stainless steel tables. Bleahh.
I have a small mid-century house, with old but in-good-shape laminate countertops, and a couple of bisque appliances that need to be replaced. I almost planned for stainless steel, but am going to leave the countertops alone in their funkiness, and look for new bisque appliances. For my "kitchen of the future", I'm going retro...want some warmth and charm. In terms of supplies, workspaces, etc.--it is pretty much organized with the simple, minimalist basics. Not a lot of gadgets and junk. Nothing really "modern" per se, but very efficient and easy to cook in. Shop at Aldi, cook from scratch, eat at home.
I feel like my life would be complete if I could get my hands on a replicator! That's definitely where smart kitchens should be taking us!!!
And exciting news, your retro kitchen may be coming back "in" in 2017. We are starting to see a return to some of the warmer tones, and more gray based colors that were popular in the 70's (updated however). But cool colors are getting warm and keep and eye out, yellow is coming- gold already made it's way back into the mainstream!
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The only things, functionally, that I see lacking in 20- and 30-year-old kitchens are electrical access and garbage.
My kitchen was originally built in 1958 with two electrical outlets: one in the corner for the fridge and one by the sink because people were not thinking clearly. When I remodeled, I added like 6 more GFCI outlets, a few with USB ports.
I also have separate space/containers for municipal trash, compost, recyclables picked up by my municipality, and recyclables which need to be collected and taken elsewhere. (I hope as my area gets with it a bit over time, this will be streamlined.)
As for the small appliance issue (VitaMix, Crock-Pot, etc.), those tambour door/appliance garage things that were so popular for hiding toasters and such in the 80's and 90's are removed and thrown directly into the trash in nearly 100% of the kitchens I work on. Same with all of the desk/homework/bill paying areas integrated into kitchens at that time. Both sound like they're great ways to improve efficiency of the kitchens, and both are being eliminated in favor of plain old drawer bases and wall cabinets.
I wonder how much of that is because the VitaMix and KitchenAid stand mixers are high-class decorative elements meant to be displayed as opposed to the old plastic-clad toasters people wanted to hide away 20 years ago.
MudDuck, you're totally right. I have pulled out so many of the desk niches and the tambour styled appliance garages. Often those ended up being horrible for the consumer because they would break, or roll up inside the cabinet which then wouldn't allow a tall appliance the room it needed. I've seen many companies go to a swinging door for an appliance garage, but it requires a lot of free space in front of the cabinet to open the door. What do you think about an appliance cabinet that offered something like a pocket door?
Do you see any of those "drop zone" or message cabinets going in to replace the desks that once were? Where are people putting their phones and keys? Should there be a spot to consolidate these items?
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BTW, THANK YOU EVERYONE for your thoughts! This is the information and conversation I was hoping for. MMM is such an amazing community!
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I don't know how much "kitchen of the future" this is, but here's what I want in my future kitchen:
- Base cabinets with drawers instead of doors and shelves. This includes a drawer under the cooktop deep enough to hold large pots.
- An induction cooktop built into (or rather, attached to the underside of) a quartz or other solid-surface countertop so that there are no seams and it can be cleaned as easily as the counter
- Large single-basin sink, also seamlessly built into the countertop (or at least undermount with minimal places for grime to stick)
- Simple cabinet door design with minimal moldings. Either slab-style doors or shaker-style.
- Universal design (e.g. design features to make the kitchen usable by children, people in wheelchairs, etc.)
- Lots of electrical outlets, installed in a strip along the underside of the upper cabinets so that the wall backsplash could be uninterrupted
I do not foresee many changes in built-in appliances, except maybe at the margins (fryers or maybe sous-vide built in to fancy gas ranges, increasing prevalence of fancy ovens with convection, infrared, microwave, etc.). Maybe some things like refrigerators will get more computerized, but in my opinion stuff like having your fridge keep track of your food inventory via barcodes (or RFID) will mostly turn out to be a gimmick.
How about those things on the Starship Enterprise..what were they called? Where you just said "Earl Grey, hot." or whatever, and there was your food or beverage.
Replicators. That'd be great, but we need to figure out how to deconstruct, teleport and reconstruct matter particle-by-particle first.
I have a small mid-century house, with old but in-good-shape laminate countertops, and a couple of bisque appliances that need to be replaced. I almost planned for stainless steel, but am going to leave the countertops alone in their funkiness, and look for new bisque appliances. For my "kitchen of the future", I'm going retro...want some warmth and charm. In terms of supplies, workspaces, etc.--it is pretty much organized with the simple, minimalist basics. Not a lot of gadgets and junk. Nothing really "modern" per se, but very efficient and easy to cook in. Shop at Aldi, cook from scratch, eat at home.
But mid-century is (or can be) "modern!" What you don't want to do is go contemporary (which is what people often mean when they say modern, but they are two different things).
I say embrace your mid-century modernness with boomerang Formica!
(http://www.kpetersen.com/formica_boomerang_restaurant_table.jpg)
I could also see (enamel-painted, not stainless-steel) metal kitchen cabinets, which were popular mid-century, coming back soon.
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- An induction cooktop built into (or rather, attached to the underside of) a quartz or other solid-surface countertop so that there are no seams and it can be cleaned as easily as the counter
Ooh, that would be sexy and efficient.
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I don't know how much "kitchen of the future" this is, but here's what I want in my future kitchen:
- Base cabinets with drawers instead of doors and shelves. This includes a drawer under the cooktop deep enough to hold large pots.
- An induction cooktop built into (or rather, attached to the underside of) a quartz or other solid-surface countertop so that there are no seams and it can be cleaned as easily as the counter
- Large single-basin sink, also seamlessly built into the countertop (or at least undermount with minimal places for grime to stick)
- Simple cabinet door design with minimal moldings. Either slab-style doors or shaker-style.
- Universal design (e.g. design features to make the kitchen usable by children, people in wheelchairs, etc.)
- Lots of electrical outlets, installed in a strip along the underside of the upper cabinets so that the wall backsplash could be uninterrupted
I do not foresee many changes in built-in appliances, except maybe at the margins (fryers or maybe sous-vide built in to fancy gas ranges, increasing prevalence of fancy ovens with convection, infrared, microwave, etc.). Maybe some things like refrigerators will get more computerized, but in my opinion stuff like having your fridge keep track of your food inventory via barcodes (or RFID) will mostly turn out to be a gimmick.
How about those things on the Starship Enterprise..what were they called? Where you just said "Earl Grey, hot." or whatever, and there was your food or beverage.
Replicators. That'd be great, but we need to figure out how to deconstruct, teleport and reconstruct matter particle-by-particle first.
I have a small mid-century house, with old but in-good-shape laminate countertops, and a couple of bisque appliances that need to be replaced. I almost planned for stainless steel, but am going to leave the countertops alone in their funkiness, and look for new bisque appliances. For my "kitchen of the future", I'm going retro...want some warmth and charm. In terms of supplies, workspaces, etc.--it is pretty much organized with the simple, minimalist basics. Not a lot of gadgets and junk. Nothing really "modern" per se, but very efficient and easy to cook in. Shop at Aldi, cook from scratch, eat at home.
But mid-century is (or can be) "modern!" What you don't want to do is go contemporary (which is what people often mean when they say modern, but they are two different things).
I say embrace your mid-century modernness with boomerang Formica!
(http://www.kpetersen.com/formica_boomerang_restaurant_table.jpg)
I could also see (enamel-painted, not stainless-steel) metal kitchen cabinets, which were popular mid-century, coming back soon.
I think one of the last counter tops I sold (in 2013) was a boomerang Formica pattern!
Jack you have my mind racing about how to inset a cooktop... maybe the countertop company could router the space for a glass edged cooktop to recess and be flush? I'm not sure, I've never encountered the request before, but sounds like a cleaning dream!
I really like the electrical worked into the underside of the upper cabinets. I've seen the enameled appliances, how retro would you go? What do you think about bringing back metal cabinets?
I see you just mentioned it! Any particular color that your heart may have a a burning desire for in regard to a metal cabinet?
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I have two cabinets with lazy susans in them--one is in a lower cabinet, and one is in an upper. They are really useful. There is a designated place on a countertop--between the Vitamix and a wall--where purse goes. (containing wallet, phone, keys). No need for a special niche. I use the kitchen table as my "command center"--small laptop, desk items--and when the family wants to sit down to a table for a meal, we go into the next room separated from the kitchen by a half-wall, and that is the dining room...with the big table most people don't use and say they don't want--but mine does get used. Yes, we actually dine in the dining room. (Not fancy pants though)
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I think one of the last counter tops I sold (in 2013) was a boomerang Formica pattern!
Jack you have my mind racing about how to inset a cooktop... maybe the countertop company could router the space for a glass edged cooktop to recess and be flush? I'm not sure, I've never encountered the request before, but sounds like a cleaning dream!
I really like the electrical worked into the underside of the upper cabinets. I've seen the enameled appliances, how retro would you go? What do you think about bringing back metal cabinets?
I see you just mentioned it! Any particular color that your heart may have a a burning desire for in regard to a metal cabinet?
Yeah, I've also thought insetting a glass induction cooktop would be the best approximation until they finish inventing the undermount kind (back when I still watched HGTV, I remember seeing a show with a prototype, so they can't be that far off!). That routing job would have to be incredibly precise, though.
I would be sort of on the fence about metal cabinets for myself... but if I went for them, they would definitely need to be some sort of bright color (bright red, robin's-egg blue, lime green -- something like that). Or indeed, maybe stainless steel. Ikea has some good approximations of the look (although their actual cabinets are usually "foil finish" particleboard, not sheet metal: red (http://www.interiorexteriorideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Ikea-kitchen-island-design.jpg), green (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Gtl7s2qGMYk/Tp4fiBpzZBI/AAAAAAAADo8/JtBSZwhKrVE/s1600/ikea-kitchen-2012-lime-green.jpg), stainless (http://kitchendecorate.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/stainless-steel-kitchen-cabinets-ikea.jpg).
However, I'd probably be more likely to chicken out (because of resale value concerns) and get wood cabinets in a lighter-colored wood with subtle grain, such as birch or maple. Something like this (http://f.tqn.com/y/homerenovations/1/S/4/5/0/-/Natural-Maple-Slab-Kitchen-Cabinets.JPG), probably. Although while looking up these images I found one of bright red wood (http://f.tqn.com/y/homerenovations/1/S/3/5/0/-/Slab-Kitchen-Cabinets-In-Bright-Red.JPG), which is pretty awesome too...
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This has me thinking about my ideal, money-is-no-object kitchen. I will never have this kitchen, because money is ALWAYS an object with me, but here goes:
Aga stove, in some offbeat enamel color.
White cabinets. Lots of them.
Some sort of separate microwave/coffee/appliance nook, with pantry cabinets on each side.
Separate fridge and freezer, paneled to match cabinets.
Two-drawer dishwasher, also paneled to match cabinets.
Recycled glass countertop.
Enormous dining table with a stone top, set in a window nook with a big cushioned window seat.
Dining chairs that could double as easy chairs, so that you are tempted to linger at the table for hours.
This is really helpful!! In your dream kitchen, do you think you would want an easy way to change the look of your cabinets? Maybe the color or glass inserts (maybe green and red for the christmas holiday, then something else for the summer for example)?
Nope. The whole point of white cabinets is that you can add a few kitchen towels and bowls in a bright color and change the look of the room.
Not sure what I'd do for a backsplash. Hmm.
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1. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that mirror an industrial or commercial kitchen
This topic makes me think accessibility and efficiency. Knives on magnetic strips, pots hanging overhead, spices out on shelves above the stove... everything in reach so you can work quickly and get the job done. Also, how others have mentioned, the industrial cooktop with grill/griddle. My current house (rental) has a nice range with the oven split into two. Not sure if this is "industrial", but it is damn efficient and allows multitasking (we have 5 adults living in the house, so it is super convenient).
2. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that is inspired by the modular and small space solutions in Asia
You could also look to the "Tiny House" movement for example homes posted here (http://tinyhouseswoon.com). Many of these homes have under-counter refrigerators, single or double burners that can be plugged in on the counter or stored away, butcher blocks that fit perfectly over the sink to add more prep space, etc... I also love the concept (Finnish? perhaps) where the dish dryer rack is stored in a cabinet above the sink. saves counter space, and if you put doors on the cabinet the dishes can just stay there once they are dried! I am currently building a tiny house, and I LOVE cooking, so saving space and finding creative solutions is a really interesting topic to me.
3. Residential kitchen spaces/cabinetry that helps homeowners feel they are less wasteful
A few things come to mind. Saving space, which relates to my notes on #2, reducing waste generated in the kitchen, and proper disposal of the waste. For the second point, I probably have biased exposure on this, but I see a movement towards purchasing in bulk to reduce packaging. With this comes increased storage in reusable containers such as mason jars, which are both functional and aesthetically pleasing. Suddenly your pantry items can be on a shelf on display, and easier in reach. Also, a big source of waste for us is the fridge. Again, we have 5 adults in the house, so keeping track of produce and not letting things go bad is a challenge. Shallower fridges, perhaps, though possibly less energy efficient, would go a long way (for us) in reducing waste. Lastly, as someone else mentioned, integrated waste disposal solutions for trash, compost, and recyclables. We are really bad about composting because our trash and recycle bins already take up a lot of room on our floor, and we do not have extra counter space for a countertop bin...
4. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that incorporates sensor technology to monitor cabinet contents and activity
Ehhhh, I've seen these concepts, particularly in hand with future auto-subscription services through amazon etc. I also work in energy research and the "Internet of things" is a big topic for my work in electronics manufacturing and data center energy consumption. So yes, we are able to cheaply slap a sensor on everything, and with the right software/apps can make some really functional services, but... I just personally am not feeling it. I think it is highlyyyy unnecessary in the grand scheme of things and could really see it making things more complicated than more simplified.
5. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that reflect home-owners that eat out far more than they eat in (how would a kitchen change? what would the space prioritize?)
I think this relates to #2 (small kitchens) and #3 (managing waste). I think you would still want all the basics, but certainly less prep space would be required, as well as less space for gadgets (blenders, mixers, etc). Except coffee, everyone loves coffee and wants a nice little coffee station :)
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I have not read every reply, but I know what I want in my kitchen.....unfixed stuff!
I would like a dresser for plates and stuff, and freestanding cupboards at the right hight for cooking on. The only fixed thing would be the sink.
And an old fashioned walk in pantry with a marble cold shelf.
Obviously being moustacian, I am stuck with what I have, but I would never have a fitted kitchen if I could get away with it.
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I find none of these ideas appealing!
I agree.
More than any room in the house (other than maybe the bathroom) -- functionality is of utmost importance.
We eat almost every meal in, maybe go out once every week or two to lunch. I need lots of cooking space, functional counters, and storage for appliances, food prep, etc.
A small cute and pristine kitchen might look nice but I'd go nuts in a day if there's no space for my cuisinart or instantpot, etc.
honeybbq- do you like how your current space accommodates your storage needs? Do you think there is something that would make your kitchen flow more efficiently or storage more effective?
My current space isn't bad. There are some cabinets that have frosted glass so you can see through them. But its a weird glass so it's almost puckered. I really don't like that. I want my mess hidden. I prefer no glass on the cabinets.
The kitchen is big, but not wide enough for an island. So it's sort of rectangular shaped. The best part is the long hidden cabinets along side the stove that I put my spices is. I love that. Like these: (not my kitchen)
(http://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/ebf1439e0f8eeb1b_4-0178/traditional-kitchen.jpg)
It hides the mess and is highly functional.
But it would be nice if I could have an island. One with stools on the far side so my family could keep me company while I cook.
My fridge also doesn't have an icemaker or water spout on the front. The ice is made in the bottom pull out freezer drawer, so it's annoying to have to open the freezer to get a cube of ice.
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Butlers pantries are all the rage in Australia and they are the most painful things to work with. Site it looks impressive but every time you try and make a meal you are in and out and in and out and in and out. Annoying and time consuming. And when the coffee machine is in there? The host spends 5-10 minutes away from the guests while making the coffees, while guests sit there twiddling their thumbs. Gah
I second (third? ) the better integration of waste disposal. I wouldn't mind a compacted for the recyclable actually.
The small appliance aspect is an interesting thought. I personally wouldn't want a flip up solution because that sounds like a lot of lost counter top. And it could be annoying to have to clear a large area while in the middle of prep just to get at the machine I've decided I want now.
We replaced all lower cabinets with big deep drawers and it was the best decision ever. I'll never have a cupboard down there again.
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Agree with others: once you have had drawers in your lower cabinets you will never go back to plain cabinets - no more squatting down, no more looking for things at the back of the cabinet. Just pull out the drawer and everything is there to see and pick out.
Also, the sort of handles that are a loop that you can put your hand behind rather than having to grab. Just make sure they are the sort without bits sticking out at each end for kids/dogs to hurt themselves on. Why would anyone have knobs?
Undermount sinks work easiest for the cleanup, unless you have one of the fully integrated into the worktop stainless steel or corian sort.
In fact, the sort of design that works for the disabled is the sort of design which is safe and convenient for someone putting a meal together.
I don't understand why people need so many cabinets. Haven't they Marie Kondo'd their kitchens? It's the same principle as clothes: you use 10% of the things 90% of the time.
There will always be some people who always prepare real food from scratch and others who always have convenience food. There will be a lot of people who think they are the first but are much closer to the second - so the kitchen has to pretend to be for the first while really being for the second
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My wife and I recently decided that we were going to stay indefinitely in our current house. So we have been remodelling the kitchen to suit us for the next 20-30 years.
Here are some of the lessons we learned (and pictures).
Our design constraints where:
The house is 65 m2 (about 700 square feet).
The kitchen is 2.7 x 2.7 meters = 7,3 m2 (79 square feet).
The kitchen window could not be moved
The left hand closet had to remain due to water pipes and heating installations.
Design goals:
1. Provide ample working space for two adults. We cook a lot and we help each other
2. Give the house a modern look and make the space feel big.
3. Provide space and electrical installations for modern appliances.
4. Provide no eating-space. We take our dinners in the living room.
5. Give us some smart-home functionality.
6. Be resilient against wear and tear and easy to service.
So what did we do to achieve these goals and build our "kitchen of the future".
So what did we do to achieve this:
1. we built the kitchen in a U shape so that it follows the edge of the room all along the walls.
2. We limited the number of hanging cabinets to just 1 wall so that we could preserve the "airy" feel.
3. We removed all wall plugs and installed corner-plugs that fold away.
4. The radiator in the room was replaced with a towel-dryer to give more space.
5. The countertop is a very strong "concrete" laminate that can stand up to water, heat and the usual wear and tear.
As for kitchen cabinets. We didn't buy the cheapest available (Ikea) since the quality was absolutely horrible. Instead we opted for mid-range cabinets that have two important features.
The cabinets are installed on feet so in an emergency a single cabinet can be uninstalled and replaced. The cabinet-fronts are "clicked" on and can be replaced in case of damage. Also we chose a classic white cabinet so we expect the color to be ok for many many years.
And finally as a little "nod" to luxury we installed a wine-cooler since we both enjoy great wines. I would not recommend this if you are not an enthusiast. They are expensive.
We also redid the floors. The floor is actually a high-strength laminate that is usually used in stores, public buildings and hotels. It comes with a lifetime warranty and can take almost any form of punishment.
One cabinet was measured out wrong and will be replaced by the manufacturer.
I have attached a few pictures and will do another post with our lighting.
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And here are a few shots of our Philips Hue recessed lighting system.
And of the corner sockets we have installed (includes usb charger).
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+1 to the giant island tables from the great British baking show, with a shelf or two for storage. Or, if in a small house, an island designed to go from prep to table after clean up.
We cook a lot from scratch, the long island allows two cooks: one on either side. Bulk storage in mason jars means open wall shelving which is simply amazing. If we had unlimited funds I would have a pantry wall sized to fit them perfectly. We do just fine with the shelves we made :-)
Refrigerators need a sizing update. 10cu ft with a real freezer, or a wide refrigerator that fits under the countertop that isn't a dorm fridge. Ours is practically empty except when we have leftovers from a party.
Old homes used to have root cellars for preservation. Finding a way to incorporate that into a small room off the kitchen, but as a part of the kitchen would be ideal. As more people grow their own food the lack of that option is limiting. We looked at a house that had a true root cellar and even though the rest of it was cheap it made me think .. because root cellar!
I would go for less cabinets, or shelves if you must. There are few things that need to be stored out of sight and I would much rather have the open space. Plus, it would prod people to live with less. You'd need a better solution than a range hood to control cooking grease though. There has to be a better way.
Also, I hate granite. With a passion. And stainless steel. Especially the two together.
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Interesting thoughts!! With drawers on the bottom, what do you do about the corner cabinet?
My dream kitchen has cabinets that go up to the ceiling. No space to dust or decorate on top. No appliance garages!! I want my counter space free. And if I have enough, I will keep my small appliances out. Not about status at all, just much easier to keep things clean. So many books and crannies in my mom s appliance garage and it kills her counter space.
We DO cook and eat at home, all seven of us, and we love to have people over, so if I had space I would have two wall ovens and consider two dishwashers and two trash compactor s (one for recycling).
I would have a big island, with my sink in it, under Mount and flush, for easy cleaning. Room for some stools. Walk in pantry with space for my deep freeze and bulk dry goods. Open shelves for main Mason jars. In cabinet over the cook top, many short shelves, so each baking dish had its own spot. I hate stacking and it leads to breaking. Basically smart use of the cabinet storage space.
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Kitchens are kind of like golf clubs. High end fancy stuff, probably won't improve your game.
Call me old fashioned, but I don't care for the typical modern kitchen with stainless appliances, white cabinets and granite tops. And I really despise some of these silly gadgets my spouse drags home; choppers, processors, electric cork screws, programmable crock pot, etc., etc. It's just more crap to store and clean.
To me, what is important is the basic tools, plenty of counter space to work on and plenty of cabinets for storage.
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This is the future of kitchens!
http://factor-tech.com/robotics/17437-robot-chef-that-can-cook-any-of-2000-meals-at-tap-of-a-button-to-go-on-sale-in-2017/
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i'm posting to follow ... we have a massive house with a horribly undersized kitchen. the previous owners/ people who built the house obviously werent home cooks. the layout sucks the space is small mean while the dining room is larger than the kitchen there is an eat in nook and a sitting area in the kitchen. i have no idea how i'm going to rework it but its gonna take some imagniation to figure out how to optimize it for actual use.
oh and the freaking corner sink with the dishwasher beside it so you kick the damn thing b/c its open behind you... uggg so many issues with my kitchen. i absolutely hate it right now.
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I have not read every reply, but I know what I want in my kitchen.....unfixed stuff!
I would like a dresser for plates and stuff, and freestanding cupboards at the right hight for cooking on. The only fixed thing would be the sink.
I feel exactly the opposite: to me, everything that's not tightly fitted and caulked into place creates a hard-to-clean crevice for dirt and debris to accumulate in.
Interesting thoughts!! With drawers on the bottom, what do you do about the corner cabinet?
Design your kitchen layout in such a way that it doesn't have a corner?
My dream kitchen has cabinets that go up to the ceiling. No space to dust or decorate on top.
+1
(http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/your-take-on-the-kitchen-of-the-future/?action=dlattach;attach=25425;image)
Could you explain what's going on in this pic? The bottom black rectangle is an electric cooktop, but what are the other two? The top one should be an exhaust hood, but if it is, where's the hole for the air to flow in?
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Saw a refrigerator at appliance store the other day that had a TV / computer on the front of it, and you could call it up on your smart phone and a camera actually allowed you to look inside the fridge so you could see contents and figure out what you need to pick up at the grocery. Price tag was over $4,000.
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Saw a refrigerator at appliance store the other day that had a TV / computer on the front of it, and you could call it up on your smart phone and a camera actually allowed you to look inside the fridge so you could see contents and figure out what you need to pick up at the grocery. Price tag was over $4,000.
if these ever get down to reasonalbe prices that camera may not be a bad idea. i bought a cheap Wifi security camera for my house when we were selling turned out to be invaluable to listen to the people inside b/c we got a low ball offer but knew the other couple that had just looked was putting down an offer too... so we waited then sent best and final to both and came out farther ahead.
that camera has been doing nothing now. i may mount it in my pantry for this specific purpose. great idea!
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(http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/your-take-on-the-kitchen-of-the-future/?action=dlattach;attach=25425;image)
Could you explain what's going on in this pic? The bottom black rectangle is an electric cooktop, but what are the other two? The top one should be an exhaust hood, but if it is, where's the hole for the air to flow in?
Sure, you are correct that it is an electric cook top. The next black section is a piece of black glass that is glued to the wall. It protects the wall from grease and overspray when cooking.
The last part is an electric exhaust. If you look closely you can see an intake right in the middle of the upper quarter. There are also two intakes on the bottom along with 2 light bulbs. The steam/stuff is emitted through a pipe in the ceiling. There is also a charcoal filter installed in the unit.
You can just about make out the touch controls on the front, at least the glowing white led power button.
If you are into danish design this is practically the defacto standard for a cook top arrangement. Having lived with it for a few days now I can say that it is very practical.
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1. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that mirror an industrial or commercial kitchen
This topic makes me think accessibility and efficiency. Knives on magnetic strips, pots hanging overhead, spices out on shelves above the stove... everything in reach so you can work quickly and get the job done. Also, how others have mentioned, the industrial cooktop with grill/griddle. My current house (rental) has a nice range with the oven split into two. Not sure if this is "industrial", but it is damn efficient and allows multitasking (we have 5 adults living in the house, so it is super convenient).
2. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that is inspired by the modular and small space solutions in Asia
You could also look to the "Tiny House" movement for example homes posted here (http://tinyhouseswoon.com). Many of these homes have under-counter refrigerators, single or double burners that can be plugged in on the counter or stored away, butcher blocks that fit perfectly over the sink to add more prep space, etc... I also love the concept (Finnish? perhaps) where the dish dryer rack is stored in a cabinet above the sink. saves counter space, and if you put doors on the cabinet the dishes can just stay there once they are dried! I am currently building a tiny house, and I LOVE cooking, so saving space and finding creative solutions is a really interesting topic to me.
3. Residential kitchen spaces/cabinetry that helps homeowners feel they are less wasteful
A few things come to mind. Saving space, which relates to my notes on #2, reducing waste generated in the kitchen, and proper disposal of the waste. For the second point, I probably have biased exposure on this, but I see a movement towards purchasing in bulk to reduce packaging. With this comes increased storage in reusable containers such as mason jars, which are both functional and aesthetically pleasing. Suddenly your pantry items can be on a shelf on display, and easier in reach. Also, a big source of waste for us is the fridge. Again, we have 5 adults in the house, so keeping track of produce and not letting things go bad is a challenge. Shallower fridges, perhaps, though possibly less energy efficient, would go a long way (for us) in reducing waste. Lastly, as someone else mentioned, integrated waste disposal solutions for trash, compost, and recyclables. We are really bad about composting because our trash and recycle bins already take up a lot of room on our floor, and we do not have extra counter space for a countertop bin...
4. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that incorporates sensor technology to monitor cabinet contents and activity
Ehhhh, I've seen these concepts, particularly in hand with future auto-subscription services through amazon etc. I also work in energy research and the "Internet of things" is a big topic for my work in electronics manufacturing and data center energy consumption. So yes, we are able to cheaply slap a sensor on everything, and with the right software/apps can make some really functional services, but... I just personally am not feeling it. I think it is highlyyyy unnecessary in the grand scheme of things and could really see it making things more complicated than more simplified.
5. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that reflect home-owners that eat out far more than they eat in (how would a kitchen change? what would the space prioritize?)
I think this relates to #2 (small kitchens) and #3 (managing waste). I think you would still want all the basics, but certainly less prep space would be required, as well as less space for gadgets (blenders, mixers, etc). Except coffee, everyone loves coffee and wants a nice little coffee station :)
You are totally right on the coffee station, I have seen more and more space dedicated to coffee! I loved your suggestion on the tiny house movement- I think you are spot on with cabinets doing double duty. As a person with some space dedicated to my own dish drying rack, I would love to get that back by dedicating a cabinet above the sink to the task, then to not have to put them away is brilliant!
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I have not read every reply, but I know what I want in my kitchen.....unfixed stuff!
I would like a dresser for plates and stuff, and freestanding cupboards at the right hight for cooking on. The only fixed thing would be the sink.
And an old fashioned walk in pantry with a marble cold shelf.
Obviously being moustacian, I am stuck with what I have, but I would never have a fitted kitchen if I could get away with it.
Mrs Brave, I am starting to hear more and more about unfitted kitchens. Outside of the US, I understand that people purchase their cabinetry and move them from home to home as they move. How do Mustachians feel about this? I like the idea of buying higher quality, but each house floorplan is so unique, there may be some serious qualms. But with unfitted cabinetry, maybe this is the solution?
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We cook almost 100% from scratch and almost all meals at home. I worked in a restaurant in high school, and am a former lab tech-- for me a kitchen is a lab space for my stomach. I don't really care for anything that isn't practical.
1. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that mirror an industrial or commercial kitchen
consider design in space/hookups for two dishwashers--- wonderful for long cooking days, holidays, parties---- otherwise the space can be used for a medium sized pull out pantry bin, or trash can--
consider pantry space-- not just as an afterthought, or for small packages-- but a dedicated space with a modular format that allows configuration for large bins of bulk items-- consider using off the shelf items from restaurant supply for bulk storage.
Open shelves in middle of island--- look at lab designs. https://labfurnitureandfumehoods.com/news/ --- easy to access
deeper counter-tops with area for storage of ktichen tools liek blenders and kitchenaids--- when they are stored the countertop can still be used as a full depth...---jsut an idea to kick around....
separate dishwashing/cleanup vs prep areas--- sink at both--- very deep--- garbage disposals on both--- big enough to put a large colander into
If designing spice/consumable storage areas--- not near stoves- the heat is bad for spices-- OK if you're making a lot of food going through consumables like a resturant does, but not good for home cooking.
Drawers-- wide and deep-- I have a buddy who has 36" wide cabinets with 2 drawers--1 shallow at the top and 2 deeper ones-- they are superb for seeing everything at once and getting to things easily.
Storage over the fridge--- make it a pull out shelf with small sides (3" or so) that can hold items not routinely used---canning items, steamers, etc. use full pull out slides--- this is always a pain to get to -- 24" deep and high up--- a full pull out would allow someone to get to either side with a small stool or something. Could also be a good place for bulk storage with modular bins.
Forget stainless steel-- it's easy to clean but with residential grade stuff you're gonna get scuffs. Better to use laminate-- look up Formica 180xf--- I love laminate- durable, light, easy to install, looks good. Get working on a cheaper and better way to attach a undermount sink to a laminate countertop.... Also matching stainless steel finishes is nearly impossible--- for a commercial kitchen no one cares....
2. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that is inspired by the modular and small space solutions in Asia
under the sink trash cans that hold 13 gallon cans... not sure how this can be done -----My kitchen currently is a 7x10 galley kitchen with no floor space for a trash can, and we do enough cooking at home that a small under sink can won't work. We keep the can just outside in the dining room.
modular bins for spices, measuring cups, spoons--- we use a bin for our measuring cups and spoons--- just pull the whole bin down grab what you need and put the rest back. we use the square sided bins from restaurant supply store for spice packets and smaller containers. see: https://www.therestaurantstore.com/items/7398
3. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that helps homeowners feel they are less wasteful
look at solutions for recycling--- I remember small bins under the sink in Germany that have bins for organic waste as well as trash, and recycling.... make it an easy to add feature---
4. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that incorporates sensor technology to monitor cabinet contents and activity
I'm not interested in this in the slightest--- to me it means highly processed, small packets of food that are costly --- I use a paper planner because: it can get rained on, won't run out of batteries, and can be customized for how my mind works--- kitchen organization should be about the same.
And the last, isn't really mustachian, but I would still like your ideas on the topic:
5. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that reflect home-owners that eat out far more than they eat in (how would a kitchen change? what would the space prioritize?)
this could be adapted to consider age in place-- this is going to be a big thing in the future I think--- consider ergonomics. Also what about someone who's family cooks or provides meals..... I'd think that having thoughts for food reheating, portioning might be in order.
I definitely agree on a dedicated space for the bin. Placing it under the sink, especially when a deep sink is combined with a disposal is often the issue... there just isn't enough room!
I see the trend of open shelving is becoming a bit of a staple these days- and at one point did have some in a rental, but with windows open to capture the breeze, everything became dusty and more work to use than was worth for the increased accessibility. Open shelving is certainly a less expensive option and really allows for the "open and airy" look that is so popular, maybe glass cabinets are the compromise?
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Agree with others: once you have had drawers in your lower cabinets you will never go back to plain cabinets - no more squatting down, no more looking for things at the back of the cabinet. Just pull out the drawer and everything is there to see and pick out.
Also, the sort of handles that are a loop that you can put your hand behind rather than having to grab. Just make sure they are the sort without bits sticking out at each end for kids/dogs to hurt themselves on. Why would anyone have knobs?
Undermount sinks work easiest for the cleanup, unless you have one of the fully integrated into the worktop stainless steel or corian sort.
In fact, the sort of design that works for the disabled is the sort of design which is safe and convenient for someone putting a meal together.
I don't understand why people need so many cabinets. Haven't they Marie Kondo'd their kitchens? It's the same principle as clothes: you use 10% of the things 90% of the time.
There will always be some people who always prepare real food from scratch and others who always have convenience food. There will be a lot of people who think they are the first but are much closer to the second - so the kitchen has to pretend to be for the first while really being for the second
This is a great question! To the general mustachian population, do you have enough storage? Too little? Too much? In most places I've lived, I have always had enough storage for the essentials, because just as former player mentioned, we use the same 10% of things 90% of the time.
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This is a great question! To the general mustachian population, do you have enough storage? Too little? Too much? In most places I've lived, I have always had enough storage for the essentials, because just as former player mentioned, we use the same 10% of things 90% of the time.
My kitchen is "smallish" by most people's standards, but I have enough storage space for my needs (and we don't have too much in the way of kitchen gadgetry). The only thing I'd change is to add a little more counter space, as it can get crowded while cooking.
And the cabinets above the refrigerator are just empty and stupid. I'd have to stand on top of the sink to even get to them (and I'm not short). I'd rather have nothing there than something useless.
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Interesting thoughts!! With drawers on the bottom, what do you do about the corner cabinet?
It depends on your layout... you can keep a full height door and use a lazy susan or blind cabinet. You can create what's called a "void corner" and you lose some storage but gain accessibility because you can plan you drawers to nearly abut each other in perpendicular fashion. There are also corner cabinets that are drawer banks of 3 drawers. You lose some storage here as well (compared to a lazy susan cabinet with a door), but you keep the drawer style. Or as mentioned by another poster, redesign the layout to not have a corner cabinet. Just depends on what your storage needs are and the space available.
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An induction cooktop built into (or rather, attached to the underside of) a quartz or other solid-surface countertop so that there are no seams and it can be cleaned as easily as the counter.
Yes, please! I really enjoyed cooking on induction when I had it, but induction without the grimy seams would be even better!
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And the cabinets above the refrigerator are just empty and stupid. I'd have to stand on top of the sink to even get to them (and I'm not short). I'd rather have nothing there than something useless.
I have empty ice cube trays in mine. I get you. But, there are some options now to use this space as vertical storage for cookie sheets and the like. I've also seen this become the locked up booze cabinet.
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I instantly thought of #5 when I read your title..
5. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that reflect home-owners that eat out far more than they eat in (how would a kitchen change? what would the space prioritize?)
Kitchens have become "ego islands" with huge oven walls and ranges with huge$'s spent just to "look good".. And the owners that almost never cook, or at least never use an oven for more than pizza reheating.
People are just waiting for a new trend that lets them look very trendy, rich, but does NOT involve a wolfe range.
I think that large ovens will go away, kitchen prep areas will shrink, but be infused with very high tech items. Look at the built in coffee dispenser, the sousvide, and steam ovens trending now... Coupled with huge refrigerator, the future kitchen will have less pots, pans and "cooking", and this area will once again be placed out of view.
Maybe the prep area shrinks to a size that looks like a butlers pantry, beside a huge fridge (walk in fridge / pantry) with prepped in a bag dinners. But opens up to the eating / great room and a separated dishwasher/sink / entertaining zone.
Many rich chinese and indian families here already have a "second kitchen" called a spice kitchen or wok kitchen, where 95% of the cooking is done, in a 7 x 8 ft pantry with applicances and extreme ventilation and room for exactly one person. Then it opens to that fabulously decadent looking designer open show kitchen, that they don't really want. (many have hired cooks / help anyway).
So why not get rid of the elaborate kitchen all together?
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Oh man, this is one of my favorite topics to randomly ponder as I lay in bed at night, falling asleep. I have lived in a bunch of different houses, and I REALLY REALLY want to put in my own kitchen some day.
Background info: We cook all from scratch, and also I can garden produce so we aren't super minimalist in the kitchen.
Best kitchen I ever had: simple galley kitchen, all white (necessary in a small kitchen, it would have been a sad dark cave with darker cabinets), and every single bottom cabinet was actually big drawers. One side of the galley was a long work space and a stove. The other side was sink, fridge, dishwasher. So close together, so efficient, but because of the huge drawers, we had tons of space for everything, and could find it all easily.
My ideal would probably be basically a galley, but with the long workspace side opening up to an eat in kitchen, and a few stools on the other side of the workspace (so an island basically).
I HATE appliances out on the counters. Visual clutter really bothers me. And my kitchen is for WORK. If it was just a display kitchen, maybe I would put my pretty vitamix out to look fancy. But I want clear counters to work on. I also use the full depth of the counters, so I wouldn't want an appliance garage. I keep my vitamix, kitchenaid, and food processor in this little tiny closet in our kitchen, and just fetch them out when I use them, then put them back away. I am young and can lift heavy things, no problem. When I'm 70, this may not be possible. OTOH, I probably won't be canning anymore. I have seen lift type things where the kitchenaid is stored under the counter and somehow lifts out like old sewing machines. That would be awesome, but it would have to swing forward, not have the countertop be cut into. I want one solid countertop.
I don't care what the counter top material is, but I HAVE to have an undermount sink to be happy :). (whatever, I've totally not had undermount sinks, but they suck compared to undermount).
My other huge pet peeve is when kitchen cabinets don't go all the way to the ceiling. Why do you want a foot of wasted space up there to collect dust? You could be sticking your christmas cookie cutters up there instead!
I like white, and would be fine with glass, too. I know white gets gross looking at times, but I liked that I could at least see the gross- wood cabinets get gross too, and I don't notice it until they are gummy with crud. Ick. I would love a bright colored kitchen, but am not brave enough to actually do it. I want it to look good for 20 years, not 3 years.
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I instantly thought of #5 when I read your title..
5. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that reflect home-owners that eat out far more than they eat in (how would a kitchen change? what would the space prioritize?)
Kitchens have become "ego islands" with huge oven walls and ranges with huge$'s spent just to "look good".. And the owners that almost never cook, or at least never use an oven for more than pizza reheating.
I see these kitchens perhaps not so much related to ego/looking good, but sort of in the way people see the need for an SUV when they drive solo 95% of the time. "But what if we want to take a big family road trip?" becomes "But what if I want to make Thanksgiving dinner for 20 people?".. the result -- massive overbuild, very low capacity factors!
This comes up a lot in Tiny House talk -- people will suggest someone use a smaller oven, a movable toaster oven, or forgo the oven altogether, and 9 times out of 10 the person has already decided they may want to make a thanksgiving turkey someday in their gosh darn TINY HOUSE! Even though they have never cooked a turkey in their lives! Let the dream die, people :)
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I see these kitchens perhaps not so much related to ego/looking good, but sort of in the way people see the need for an SUV when they drive solo 95% of the time. "But what if we want to take a big family road trip?" becomes "But what if I want to make Thanksgiving dinner for 20 people?".. the result -- massive overbuild, very low capacity factors!
This comes up a lot in Tiny House talk -- people will suggest someone use a smaller oven, a movable toaster oven, or forgo the oven altogether, and 9 times out of 10 the person has already decided they may want to make a thanksgiving turkey someday in their gosh darn TINY HOUSE! Even though they have never cooked a turkey in their lives! Let the dream die, people :)
So much this. I think you are spot on. Many of the kitchens I worked on were for the intent of dinner parties that would held...one day.
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The sad thing is, it works the opposite way too: my wife and I actually use our kitchen, but it's such a horrible piece of crap that I'm embarrassed even to detail how horrible a piece of crap it really is. I should stop reading this thread, because it's making me want to drop my savings rate so I can afford to renovate...
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The sad thing is, it works the opposite way too: my wife and I actually use our kitchen, but it's such a horrible piece of crap that I'm embarrassed even to detail how horrible a piece of crap it really is. I should stop reading this thread, because it's making me want to drop my savings rate so I can afford to renovate...
Depending on your situation it might be acceptable to renovate. We chose to rebuild our kitchen (as seen on page 1) because we want to stay in our small comfortable house. There was no way the kitchen would last for even another 10 years and we need at least 20-40 years out of it.
So if you are planning long term a renovation is sometimes worth the cost.
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I have worked in a number of kitchens with the old metal cabinetry - they were actually manufactured in this area and there are a fair number of old houses that still have them. I think they are kind of noisy, actually, but they sure do last.
I am, as it happens, deep into a kitchen remodel right now. Our house was built in 1960 and the cabinetry - which was not deluxe in the first place - has just had it. Plus there really was very little cabinet or counter space given that it's a pretty decent sized room. After cooking in there for 21 years, I knew exactly how I wanted to change it up. (We also plan to stay here indefinitely.)
I'm getting mostly drawers and pull out cabinets - but there will only be two top cabinets in the kitchen. I'm quite short and I can't reach anything in the top cabinets except for the bottom shelf. I don't want to climb on a ladder any time I need something. So the top cabinets have glass, and really are for display more than anything else.
Plus, we're getting cabinets along a wall that had none at all, and that will be a coffee/tea bar, with plenty of storage space for mugs.
I do not love the white kitchen trend - I just like wood better. So our cabinets are hickory. Oh, and we're going from 3 electrical outlets to about 10. LOL
So - I'll report back about whether it really all works as well as I'm imagining it will!
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I haven't read most of the other replies, because I'm not that interested in what others want in their kitchens and don't think their preferences are usually like mine (which is why I don't care what theirs are).
We remodeled our home a few years ago and I designed the kitchen (with help) and it is close to perfect (for me). Two (or more) people can work in it without crashing into each other.
The floors and counter tops are both made of tile. If I did it over, I'd get better floor tile -- the stuff we picked is treacherously slippery when wet, something I didn't realize until it was too late. The tile-topped counters cost ~$2/sq foot (we installed them ourselves). I will never again (if I can avoid it) have a kitchen where I can't put a hot pan down on the counter.
The kitchen is about 12 feet long by 9 feet wide. At one end there's an island that will seat 4 (would have seated 8 had I insisted that the builder design it the way I originally wanted, i.e., longer, but I yielded to his advice -- oops). It has cabinets underneath it that open from both sides and are used to store less-used things, mostly the "good" plates, etc.
The kitchen itself has a long, L-shaped counter. Fridge at one end, on the leftmost edge of the long-L. I am right handed. Immediately next to the fridge, a 3' (approx.) length of butcher-block counter. Under that sits a board the same size as the counter that is about 6 inches lower than the counter and that can be pulled out (it is as deep as the counter is and can be pulled out to that depth). This offers both a work area that someone seated (e.g. in a wheelchair) or short (e.g. a kid) can work at, and a readily available, flat, uncluttered surface right next to the fridge where bags of groceries can be placed for unpacking. It is divine. Underneath it are drawers I use for storing food storage containers and food prep tools. The pots-n-pans also hang from a metal-mounted ceiling rack above this, though ideally they'd be closer to the stove.
Next there's the sink with a big window in front of it, looking out over the yard, and beside that the dishwasher, then a lazy Susan (installed) piece in the corner cupboard, more counter surface in the short edge of the L and the stove.
Lower cabinets are drawers or have shelves that pull out fully (I'd probably do 100% drawers if I had it to do over). The floor of the large cabinet that sits under the sink is a drawer, so it can be pulled out -- no scrambling to reach the cleanser/garbage bags, etc. Dishwasher is installed, everything else pretty much drops into place (and can be removed). I want things DH and I can easily replace ourselves. Microwave just sits on a section of the counter (corner over the lazy susan between the sink and the stove). Stove is flat-topped glass, and yes, I'd do induction if I had it to do over. Stove controls on current unit are at the rear, if I replace it they'll be at the front (safety + universal access). Stove vents to the outside for real, doesn't just recirculate.
Drawer & cabinet fronts are flat wood with no horizontal surfaces whatsoever (except their top edge), so they don't have dust/dirt clinging to them that needs to be cleaned off. Appliances are black. My new obsession after several irritating failures is to have appliances that only have mechanical/analog (not digital/computerized) parts -- last time the dishwasher failed, the repairman told us there were 3 computerized sections of the thing, the failure was caused by one of them, he couldn't tell us which one, and we could start replacing them one at a time, cost $150 each + service call each time, until we figured out which one it was. Our new dishwasher has only knobs. It's not my favorite for function and probably loses on energy efficiency, but as compared to having to replace the stupid thing every ~5 years, I'll take it.
Other appliances are minimal -- we own a kitchen-aid mixer (sits on counter beside stove), a toaster, and a toaster oven. The toaster is only b/c DH finds the toaster oven takes too long to make toast.
I do not like to cook and increasingly take steps to embrace that reality -- I buy bacon cooked, I buy veggies frozen, chopped. I like having a functional kitchen because I don't like to cook, so I want to minimize the time/effort I spend there.
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We cook almost 100% from scratch and almost all meals at home. I worked in a restaurant in high school, and am a former lab tech-- for me a kitchen is a lab space for my stomach. I don't really care for anything that isn't practical.
1. Residential kitchen spaces/ cabinetry that mirror an industrial or commercial kitchen
consider design in space/hookups for two dishwashers--- wonderful for long cooking days, holidays, parties---- otherwise the space can be used for a medium sized pull out pantry bin, or trash can--
consider pantry space-- not just as an afterthought, or for small packages-- but a dedicated space with a modular format that allows configuration for large bins of bulk items-- consider using off the shelf items from restaurant supply for bulk storage.
Open shelves in middle of island--- look at lab designs. https://labfurnitureandfumehoods.com/news/ --- easy to access
deeper counter-tops with area for storage of ktichen tools liek blenders and kitchenaids--- when they are stored the countertop can still be used as a full depth...---jsut an idea to kick around....
separate dishwashing/cleanup vs prep areas--- sink at both--- very deep--- garbage disposals on both--- big enough to put a large colander into
If designing spice/consumable storage areas--- not near stoves- the heat is bad for spices-- OK if you're making a lot of food going through consumables like a resturant does, but not good for home cooking.
Drawers-- wide and deep-- I have a buddy who has 36" wide cabinets with 2 drawers--1 shallow at the top and 2 deeper ones-- they are superb for seeing everything at once and getting to things easily.
One of the most important things from professional kitchens that's usually missing from residential kitchens:
Restaurant-style prep trays for mise en place. Doesn't have to be restaurant style, but they work nicely. Stainless tub (ice in the bottom if needed) with close-fitting plastic insert trays for holding prepped ingredients. Doesn't really need to be built in, but holy cow is it great having it set up. I've found the commercial versions to be far less squirrley than trying to use a bunch of those little glass bowls. Meh. Rectangles fit together nicely.
(If I'm having a dinner party, I'll often wash & prep in the morning into these, plastic wrap 'em and store them in the fridge until cooking time, and then break them out and go. Very very handy for staying organized when you're cooking.)
Also not built in, but drawing from the question of what's good to steal from restaurant techniques: Plastic squirt bottles (like you'd put ketchup in at a fast food place) for oil are awesome as well. I usually don't do it for olive, but for canola, which we go through rapidly, I keep one next to the stove. Squirt - cook - done. No spills, precise control over amount of oil, fast.
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My kitchen is only a few years old and I love it. Pride of place is my aga :). With a drying rack above.
Then the rest is fitted cupboards/appliances in a more modern look. Enough space for all my stuff in cupboards, enough counter space to cook/bake etc - I spent money on things I valued, e.g. a filter tap, and economised where I didn't care.
You know what after living with it for a few years, I don't think I'd change anything.......for the kitchen shape I have it works perfectly.
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More drawers under benches/cooktops (cabinets are a pain in the ass).
Induction cooktops hidden entirely under the bench. You won't even know it's there except for the markers for where to put the pots and the captive touch controls.
Less overhead cabinets.
Integrated dishwashers becoming more common place.
Splashback backlash, as paint proves to be just as easy to clean and easier to change.
Hidden LED lighting illuminating every drawer/cabinet.
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adjustable height counter. I'm tall, hubby is short and I like to knead bread at arms length but do other stuff at a higher height. Plus as my kiddo starts to help in the kitchen it would be cool for her to reach. oooh and anyone with mobility imparements like an older person. So like the adjustable height desk at work but a counter section