Author Topic: Would You Urinate in a Cup?  (Read 55664 times)

pipercat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Central VA
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2014, 08:49:38 PM »
Doesn't bother me at all.  I've never really thought that much about it, so it certainly doesn't offend me.  I don't really remember how many times I've been required to do it, though.  At least a few times I guess.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8493
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2014, 08:54:41 PM »
I cannot wrap my mind around this; it all seems so egregious to me.  *Giving your employer a cup of your urine*,  so that they can *chemically test your urine*, because *they think it's their right to know what you might have put into your body* although there is *no evidence that any of it was imbibed while working or on their premises*.

I'm kind of surprised to see so many different people express this opinion.  I've never taken a drug test, but I would gladly consent to one.  You always have the choice of declining employment by anyone who wants to test you.

Is there really no job you can think of that you think should be able to require drug testing?  Would you hire a full time live-in nanny if you knew she was a heavy heroin user but currently appeared to be a functional addict?  Would you vote for a President known to be self-medicating his crippling depression with illegal opiates?  Should Barry Bonds be allowed in the Hall of Fame?

In some jobs (like spies) the no-drugs policy has nothing to do with potential on-the-job performance, and everything to do with your perceived security risk.  Are you the kind of person who is subject to blackmail?  Could a foreign intelligence operative potentially use your drug habit to influence your judgment, or convince you to divulge secret information?  Drug use is still seen in some circles as a proxy for character flaws, at least in circles where "character" means blind obedience to authority and not rocking the boat.

Simple Abundant Living

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
    • Simple Abundant Living
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2014, 09:10:12 PM »
I did to work in a hospital setting.  There were strict rules about purses and temperature, but I didn't have to pee in front of anyone.  I'm not sure if that's standard practice somewhere.  I didn't see anything wrong or offensive with it, and if I were a patient, I would want the people working around me to be clean and sober.

I think we all would.  The problem is that drug tests don't measure sobriety.

I meant sobriety by this definition.

"Sobriety is the condition of not having any measurable levels, or effects from mood-altering drugs."
Source- Wikipedia.

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 892
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2014, 09:25:08 PM »
  You always have the choice of declining employment by anyone who wants to test you.

Yes, as I would (which I thought was basically what the OP was asking-who would not consent to this).

Is there really no job you can think of that you think should be able to require drug testing?  Would you hire a full time live-in nanny if you knew she was a heavy heroin user but currently appeared to be a functional addict?  Would you vote for a President known to be self-medicating his crippling depression with illegal opiates?  Should Barry Bonds be allowed in the Hall of Fame?


There is no job that  I can think of that I would want to have where I could imagine drug testing being justified.   If I knew a nanny were a heavy heroin user, then no, I would not hire her.   But, clearly there was enough evidence to "know" without testing her in this case, so what would the point of a piss test be?   I would not insist that someone else who has given no signs of issues have their privacy violated in the name of my paranoia (and if there are signs of issues, I wouldn't hire, drug test or not).   

And I'm not sure what level of drug use under what circumstances would influence my vote for the President and by how much, it would all depend.    But, again, this would only be influenced by drug issues that are known b/c their are some other indications of them (although like I said, how much they'd even matter then would depend).   I wouldn't support urine drug tests of the President.

And I don't know who Barry Bonds is, nor do I care at all about whether or not he's in some hall of fame, regardless he uses or has used drugs (which I'm assuming is why he was mentioned).

In some jobs (like spies) the no-drugs policy has nothing to do with potential on-the-job performance, and everything to do with your perceived security risk.  Are you the kind of person who is subject to blackmail?  Could a foreign intelligence operative potentially use your drug habit to influence your judgment, or convince you to divulge secret information?  Drug use is still seen in some circles as a proxy for character flaws, at least in circles where "character" means blind obedience to authority and not rocking the boat.

I disagree with it indicating anything about "character," but as far as perceived security risk, I assume that if one has such a drug problem that they could be blackmailed about it, it will show up through other crazy-ass behavior, finances, and other things that a high level security clearance would show.  If not, I question our security clearance processes, and adding a piss test certainly isn't going to fix them.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 09:28:51 PM by Emilyngh »

Eric

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4061
  • Location: On my bike
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2014, 11:06:11 PM »
I did to work in a hospital setting.  There were strict rules about purses and temperature, but I didn't have to pee in front of anyone.  I'm not sure if that's standard practice somewhere.  I didn't see anything wrong or offensive with it, and if I were a patient, I would want the people working around me to be clean and sober.

I think we all would.  The problem is that drug tests don't measure sobriety.

I meant sobriety by this definition.

"Sobriety is the condition of not having any measurable levels, or effects from mood-altering drugs."
Source- Wikipedia.

Hey, me too!  There are absolutely no measurable effects from smoking a joint the next day, let alone three weeks later.

CerebralPrimate

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Location: Erbil, northern Iraq
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2014, 01:21:13 AM »
As prior military and doing lots of defense type work since, I got used to it long ago. Just like getting shots... if ya do it enough, you learn to deal with it. I've probably had my "middle east" shot sets about 4 or 5 times now. Meh, just jab me and get it over with, I gotta go pee in a cup, then hop a plane to the big sandbox so I can work on my early retirement...

DollarBill

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 902
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Austin TX
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2014, 02:54:27 AM »
As prior military and doing lots of defense type work since, I got used to it long ago. Just like getting shots... if ya do it enough, you learn to deal with it. I've probably had my "middle east" shot sets about 4 or 5 times now. Meh, just jab me and get it over with, I gotta go pee in a cup, then hop a plane to the big sandbox so I can work on my early retirement...

Them: Sir, it's time for your anthrax shot, smallpox shot, pee test.
Me: Can I refuse to do it?
Them: No
Me: All righty then...four shots at the same visit...sure! lol

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2014, 06:10:11 AM »
I didn't realize drug testing was so common in the US. 

In Canada you can only require it for safety-sensitive positions like operating heavy equipment - and maybe places like the military - not sure about that.  Our health insurance rates are not tied to this as we have universal health care.  I actually don't know anyone who has been drug tested personally, although ferry workers are subject to testing randomly.

If I was asked to submit to a drug test and I wanted the job I really wouldn't care.  I don't do drugs and I don't particularly want to work with those who are impaired so I'd have zero objection to the whole thing.  Peeing in a cup seems pretty minor to me.

I can understand if you smoke pot it would get in the way of your decision to do so, or the job you would accept, but I'm not too fussed about it if it is illegal in your state.

astvilla

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2014, 06:55:59 AM »
Of course I would, won't delve into personal beliefs or politics but would you want your ER doctor, surgeon, nurse, or pharmacist to have a history of abuse and have the chance of being intoxicated while your guts are falling out? Or maybe getting a much lower dose of pain killers because someone took a little themselves before administering to you? NO. And I know of cases where healthcare workers have done that. What about the pilot of the plane you are in? Or the bus driver, truck driver? NO.

Sometimes people feel they know themselves well but not as much they think. It takes just one lapse of judgment to ruin everything and hurt others. Of course urine screens don't prevent all accidents, and it's probably more important in certain jobs where one has to be more professional. But it beats getting tested with blood. I'm just not a fan of the time it takes and long lines. And if employer asks for a urine drug screen, it could mean they had problems with employees who were once abusers. I guess it's the ones who do drugs but are "responsible" that worry the most.

A little surprised how many are against it. It's not a big deal IMO but if you're someone who makes a big fuss about a pee test not sure you're someone I feel is mature enough or someone I'd like to work with on the chance (small, but higher than average) that drug use could impair your performance and image.  And then there's issue of health insurance coverage. Really it's all about risk in the end and it's normal for people to look after their bottom line.

Simple Abundant Living

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
    • Simple Abundant Living
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2014, 07:12:07 AM »
I did to work in a hospital setting.  There were strict rules about purses and temperature, but I didn't have to pee in front of anyone.  I'm not sure if that's standard practice somewhere.  I didn't see anything wrong or offensive with it, and if I were a patient, I would want the people working around me to be clean and sober.

I think we all would.  The problem is that drug tests don't measure sobriety.

I meant sobriety by this definition.

"Sobriety is the condition of not having any measurable levels, or effects from mood-altering drugs."
Source- Wikipedia.

Hey, me too!  There are absolutely no measurable effects from smoking a joint the next day, let alone three weeks later.

Three weeks later, the measurable effect is that the THC indicator will still be positive.

AccidentalMiser

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 659
  • Age: 52
  • Location: SE Tenn
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2014, 07:15:23 AM »
I do not take illegal drugs--or even those recently made legal in many areas--and am insulted when a company wants my urine.

It's urine. Ew. That is my first experience of the company? Peeing in a cup?

Seems like a bad way to start a relationship. Anyone else feel the same way?

I don't mind if they want to see if I have bad credit and whatnot, but the urine thing is just gross.

Also, what am I to think of a person who can't tell if someone is a drug addict? I think it's fairly obvious to spot them...

I've been in nuclear power since graduating high school, first in the Navy, then commercial.  I've peed in a cup a hundred times for work.  After while, it's just no big deal to me.

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1313
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Missouri
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2014, 07:55:09 AM »
This thread does a great job of weeding out (no pun intended) those who work in IT/Engineering jobs and think a UA is somehow degrading, disgusting, or violates their privacy... and those who have worked retail/manufacturing/military and UAs are done either at time of hire (every retail job I've had), or during employment for different reasons (when I was in private security for a manufacturing company).

It's actually really interesting reading the different responses and expectations of people.

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2014, 08:41:56 AM »
This thread does a great job of weeding out (no pun intended) those who work in IT/Engineering jobs and think a UA is somehow degrading, disgusting, or violates their privacy... and those who have worked retail/manufacturing/military and UAs are done either at time of hire (every retail job I've had), or during employment for different reasons (when I was in private security for a manufacturing company).

It's actually really interesting reading the different responses and expectations of people.

For true. I mean, degrading is when you were looking forward to taking a majoir dump when you came in before PT, and got redirected to the piss test :( #poopshame

socaso

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 564
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2014, 08:50:44 AM »
I would not mind taking a drug test to get a job but I refuse to work for a company that forces its employees to submit to random and ongoing drug testing. That level of mistrust and paranoia on the part of the company is something I could not live with. A guy I knew in college worked for a company that did that and he was constantly on edge about the drug testing.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2014, 09:12:39 AM »
No reason to be on edge if you don't do drugs.  When you are going to be subject to random drug testing for work why engage at all given the downside unless you are addicted, in which case maybe it is time to get some help.   
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 09:19:04 AM by totoro »

Mega

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 176
  • Location: Burlington, Ontario
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2014, 09:18:03 AM »
It is an interesting situation. I dont think they can force you to do that in Canada.

For a different perspective, I am surprised that companies actually do this, as it could open them up to potential lawsuits for discrimination based on medical conditions (Think protected groups). Think about if they test urine for legal drugs: depression, diabetes,  ADD, etc.

Not to mention there are a number of food and other drugs that cause false positives.

Either way, piss in a cup for them if you want the job.

trailrated

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1136
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Bay Area Ca
  • a smooth sea never made a skilled sailor
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2014, 09:19:26 AM »
My company drug tests employees picked at random every month. For us it is required to keep our insurance prices down. The drivers all operate trucks that are roughly 60,000lbs when loaded. It is a safety issue, if anybody tests positive they are fired on the spot. Partially for insurance purposes, but also for safety. If someone was high on something operating a truck and killed someone or potentially more than one person we would be liable. Making someone pee in a cup to prevent that is well worth it.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2014, 09:21:19 AM »
If your position is safety-sensitive they can indeed require drug-testing in Canada.  Ex. operating big mining equipment or ferry boats.

They cannot require you to do it otherwise.

They don't test for anything other than illegal drugs, they are not permitted to.


mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7012
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2014, 09:43:14 AM »
I was in the Navy for 5 years, subject to random drug tests - with a spectator so you couldn't cheat.  So no, it doesn't bother me.

Eric

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4061
  • Location: On my bike
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2014, 02:06:10 PM »
Would you submit to a blood test?  Would you submit to a genital exam?  Why not?  It keeps our insurance rates low by weeding out those with poor genes and STDs.  If you don't have an STD, you should have no problem spreading your legs.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2014, 04:01:39 PM »
Very different context. 

There is already legislation to protect the security of medical information which belongs to the patient and relates to health status.  There is law on genetic discrimination in the US: Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act.

Some private insurers do require blood tests prior to setting your rate or insuring you - mine did.  They also ask detailed questions about your parents health status and grandparents.   How far this should go?  I would argue we shouldn't discriminate based on DNA information, but it is reasonable to pay more when you have a known medical condition.

Being high on drugs at work when you drive a big truck is absolutely preventable - yep, I support such testing.

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2014, 04:46:30 PM »
Would you submit to a blood test?  Would you submit to a genital exam?  Why not?  It keeps our insurance rates low by weeding out those with poor genes and STDs.  If you don't have an STD, you should have no problem spreading your legs.

Fuck yea I would, I am the ubermensch.

Johnez

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1091
  • Location: Southern California
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2014, 06:22:09 PM »

There is no job that  I can think of that I would want to have where I could imagine drug testing being justified.   If I knew a nanny were a heavy heroin user, then no, I would not hire her.   But, clearly there was enough evidence to "know" without testing her in this case, so what would the point of a piss test be?   I would not insist that someone else who has given no signs of issues have their privacy violated in the name of my paranoia (and if there are signs of issues, I wouldn't hire, drug test or not).   


How would you actually know?  Through her physical appearance?  Would you simply assume she was a drug addict because she fit the profile, or would you ask her some questions?  I know many "happy" people who are heavily medicated, legally or not.  Things aren't always what they seem.  People can lie, and people can assume.  Both are wrong.  The piss test kind of shuts both avenues down.

I disagree with it indicating anything about "character," but as far as perceived security risk, I assume that if one has such a drug problem that they could be blackmailed about it, it will show up through other crazy-ass behavior, finances, and other things that a high level security clearance would show.  If not, I question our security clearance processes, and adding a piss test certainly isn't going to fix them.

Piss test isn't meant to be 100% of the picture.  It part of a system of redundancies.  One part fails, the other part picks up the slack.

***

I'm a live and let live guy, but I think companies have the right to hold their judgements.  If I have a company, I really don't care who does drugs, but I care about the people I hire NOT doing them.  On their own free time, or not.  Some like to point to the slippery slope argument of "what's next, a blood test, etc..." well, I'll go the other direction-what is considered "acceptable"?  Using pot one hour before work, 2...3 hours?  How much is acceptable?  A toke?  A joint?  A bowl?  Some people are fine and responsible about it, but there is a reason behind most laws.  Some idiot pushed a limit somewhere.  Someone probably got hurt.  In the old days, maybe it would have been worth the risk to be "cool" about stuff like this, in this hyperlitigious atmosphere would you blame companies for being on the aggressive end of keeping things safe?

oldtoyota

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3163
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2014, 07:06:58 PM »
I cannot wrap my mind around this; it all seems so egregious to me.  *Giving your employer a cup of your urine*,  so that they can *chemically test your urine*, because *they think it's their right to know what you might have put into your body* although there is *no evidence that any of it was imbibed while working or on their premises*.

I'm kind of surprised to see so many different people express this opinion.  I've never taken a drug test, but I would gladly consent to one.  You always have the choice of declining employment by anyone who wants to test you.

Is there really no job you can think of that you think should be able to require drug testing?  Would you hire a full time live-in nanny if you knew she was a heavy heroin user but currently appeared to be a functional addict?  Would you vote for a President known to be self-medicating his crippling depression with illegal opiates?  Should Barry Bonds be allowed in the Hall of Fame?

In some jobs (like spies) the no-drugs policy has nothing to do with potential on-the-job performance, and everything to do with your perceived security risk.  Are you the kind of person who is subject to blackmail?  Could a foreign intelligence operative potentially use your drug habit to influence your judgment, or convince you to divulge secret information?  Drug use is still seen in some circles as a proxy for character flaws, at least in circles where "character" means blind obedience to authority and not rocking the boat.

Wow. I am surprised at this response from you. Weren't you the one who will not wear a suit because it feels like slavery? Yet, you'll give up your urine? I am not criticizing…just really surprised.


oldtoyota

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3163
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2014, 07:14:08 PM »
This thread does a great job of weeding out (no pun intended) those who work in IT/Engineering jobs and think a UA is somehow degrading, disgusting, or violates their privacy... and those who have worked retail/manufacturing/military and UAs are done either at time of hire (every retail job I've had), or during employment for different reasons (when I was in private security for a manufacturing company).

It's actually really interesting reading the different responses and expectations of people.

I agree. I work at a computer. I am not flying a plane or shooting at people for a living, so I don't think I should be tested.

Someone has made companies think this is necessary. I guess I should have bought stock in those companies. LOL.




totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #75 on: September 13, 2014, 07:16:44 PM »
Or move to Canada.  You couldn't be tested here.  It seems like it is all related to the US health insurance system - with universal Medicare it becomes a non-issue with positions that aren't safety-sensitive.

oldtoyota

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3163
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #76 on: September 13, 2014, 07:41:15 PM »
Or move to Canada.  You couldn't be tested here.  It seems like it is all related to the US health insurance system - with universal Medicare it becomes a non-issue with positions that aren't safety-sensitive.

Could you explain the correlation between US health insurance and drug testing for jobs in the US? I don't see how they are related.

Moving to Canada appealed to me at one time…but y'all have your own problems up there. I don't think your country would let me move there without a job anyway.


totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #77 on: September 13, 2014, 08:44:03 PM »
It appears that drug testing may lower employer medical insurance premiums in the US in some states: http://wyomingworkforce.org/employers-and-businesses/workers-compensation/Pages/premium-base-rate-discount-for-drug-testing.aspx

In Canada it has no effect as all employees are covered by universal health care and extended benefits are capped by a dollar value.  In addition, drug testing is not supported in law unless necessary for safety reasons.

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2014, 08:51:56 PM »
This thread does a great job of weeding out (no pun intended) those who work in IT/Engineering jobs and think a UA is somehow degrading, disgusting, or violates their privacy... and those who have worked retail/manufacturing/military and UAs are done either at time of hire (every retail job I've had), or during employment for different reasons (when I was in private security for a manufacturing company).

It's actually really interesting reading the different responses and expectations of people.

I agree. I work at a computer. I am not flying a plane or shooting at people for a living, so I don't think I should be tested.

Someone has made companies think this is necessary. I guess I should have bought stock in those companies. LOL.

I, for one, don't want you drug-addled heathens breaking the internet, thank you please.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8493
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2014, 10:45:43 PM »
Weren't you the one who will not wear a suit because it feels like slavery? Yet, you'll give up your urine? I am not criticizing…just really surprised.

I don't see the conflict here.  You don't have to work for a company that requires drug testing.  I don't have to work for a company that requires uniforms.  I believe a company should be allowed to require either, and you should be free to decline employment in either case.

In this case, a company prohibiting drug use is like a company prohibiting neon orange fishnets.  I'm okay with this particular restriction, but if I wasn't then I wouldn't have taken the job.  There's a big difference between prohibiting an action and requiring an action.  I'm prohibited from murdering my children, but it's a law I don't mind following.  Forcing me to murder strangers, however, is a bit harder.

oldtoyota

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3163
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2014, 11:03:53 AM »
It appears that drug testing may lower employer medical insurance premiums in the US in some states: http://wyomingworkforce.org/employers-and-businesses/workers-compensation/Pages/premium-base-rate-discount-for-drug-testing.aspx

In Canada it has no effect as all employees are covered by universal health care and extended benefits are capped by a dollar value.  In addition, drug testing is not supported in law unless necessary for safety reasons.

Interesting. I did not know that it could lower medical insurance premiums for employers. Wow.

oldtoyota

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3163
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2014, 11:05:33 AM »
Weren't you the one who will not wear a suit because it feels like slavery? Yet, you'll give up your urine? I am not criticizing…just really surprised.

I don't see the conflict here.  You don't have to work for a company that requires drug testing.  I don't have to work for a company that requires uniforms.  I believe a company should be allowed to require either, and you should be free to decline employment in either case.

In this case, a company prohibiting drug use is like a company prohibiting neon orange fishnets.  I'm okay with this particular restriction, but if I wasn't then I wouldn't have taken the job.  There's a big difference between prohibiting an action and requiring an action.  I'm prohibited from murdering my children, but it's a law I don't mind following.  Forcing me to murder strangers, however, is a bit harder.

I think they are related in a tangential way. You may not and so you do not see your views as surprising. Oh, well. Guess we'll just see it different ways.

MoneyCat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1754
  • Location: New Jersey
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2014, 11:14:57 AM »
I don't really care about peeing in a cup for a job.  Money is money.  I had to pass a drug test for my current job and since I don't do drugs (and nobody who is intelligent does drugs anyway) it wasn't an issue for me.  I was a little annoyed that I had to take a couple hours out of my day to do the drug test, but it resulted in income so whatever.  The only real issue I see with drug testing is for people who are prescribed medicinal marijuana (which is legal in my state).  I would hope that employers would not have an issue with it if they knew it was prescribed.

Iron Mike Sharpe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2014, 11:48:08 AM »
I've never worked for a company that has them.  I don't drink, smoke, or do drugs.  But I find the test invasive.  I'd be very wary of working somewhere that had those tests.  What else could they be looking for without telling you? 

I won't say I wouldn't take a job somewhere that had drug testing.  But I'd charge an employer at least a 10% premium on my salary if they wanted me to take a drug test. 

BlueHouse

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3235
  • Location: WDC
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2014, 01:16:59 PM »
The last time I took a pee test (about 10 years ago), I swore I'd never do another one.  I have my own company now and for contracts that require a pee test, they really just require the employer to vouch for the employee.  So I just vouch for myself.  I also don't do background checks on myself.  I suppose if I have to get a job in the future, I'll do it, but with the following stipulations:

1.  I prefer they only require it AFTER an offer is made so that, like credit, any negative impact to me must me acknowledged.  (I want the right to dispute a false positive).
2.  I don't really mind peeing in a cup so much, but I'm not EVER holding it again.  If I ever have to submit to a pee test again, I'm going to claim there's something wrong with my arms so that I cannot squat and hold a cup at the same time.  I would like someone else (preferably some donkey from HR that has to look me in the eye everyday) to hold the cup for me.  Then we can see how degrading it is.
3.  I'm also never again going to clean up the public bathroom after I urinate/pee/splatter/dribble.  I don't know if it's this difficult for everyone, but my urine tends to not come out in a nice clean stream when I'm squatting.  It goes this way and that, especially when I'm trying to aim it.   I'm lucky it doesn't run down my legs.   So I usually spend a few minutes cleaning up a public restroom because my urine has spilled.  No more.  In fact, I may just insist that I can only do it if I'm hovering over the HR donkey's own desk chair.
4.  I'm also not going to wipe down the outside of the cup for the lab tech anymore (sorry...but at least they give you guys gloves!)



iris lily

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3393
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2014, 01:23:02 PM »
DH used to work in the tree and lawn care business where driving a huge vehicle was regulated by DOT and drug testing was mandatory.

He said that a fair number of new hires never showed up again after drug testing day. They knew the results. Use of weed is pretty common in the green industry.

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2513
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2014, 01:24:35 PM »
Again, most of this testing comes back to insurance rates.

Quote
If I knew a nanny were a heavy heroin user, then no, I would not hire her.   But, clearly there was enough evidence to "know" without testing her in this case, so what would the point of a piss test be? 

I once babysat a little girl.  Her Mom said "her best friend lives next door; you can go with her over there if she wants to visit, but under no circumstances can she go over there by herself.  If her friend wants to come over here, then that's okay."  I didn't think much of it at first, figuring she just wanted me working since she was paying me.  But then I met the nanny next door.  One word:  LOADED.  I bet the people employing her had no clue, though.  Maybe she would come in clean in the morning, get high as soon as they left, and be seeming pretty "normal" by the time they got home?  Anyway, it was pretty disturbing.  Not sure why the lady I worked for didn't say anything to the other parents.

brizna

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2014, 07:41:00 PM »
(and nobody who is intelligent does drugs anyway)

What an asinine thing to say. You really don't know what you're talking about.


On topic, I had to pee in a cup for my current job. I find it invasive, distrustful, and ineffective and think worse of my company for making it a requirement. 30% bump in pay so I took the job, but I don't have much respect for the company as a result.

Elderwood17

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
  • Location: Western North Carolina
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2014, 07:48:20 PM »
Some of the healthcare places I have worked at in the past it was a requirement for many jobs.....nothing personal, just came with the job.  What bothered me though is when an area would have a potential problem with diversion and all employees would get screened.  That seemed excessive to me when there was no evidence of anyone being a potential suspect but the assumption was someone must have been guilty so check them all. 

Hugh H

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 75
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2014, 07:59:49 PM »
I'm in the military and I'm mandated to pee in a cup often. Doesn't bother me at all, but maybe I'm just used to it.

DollarBill

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 902
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Austin TX
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #90 on: September 15, 2014, 08:06:53 AM »
For the people who dislike urinating in a cup:
Is it because;
A. I would like to enjoy a duddie every now and then.
B. I don't like the fact my Employer can't trust who they hired.
C. I don't think anyone should have the power to make me pee in a cup, for any reason.

Chranstronaut

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 713
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #91 on: September 15, 2014, 08:39:17 AM »
I think you are all missing the boat on a key point:  in cases like desk jobs, stock boy at your local grocery, etc., employers are primarily drug testing for health insurance premium reasons.  My brother owns a company and covering his employees is much cheaper if they all pass a drug test.  So there you go.

Hmm, I'd never thought about this before... not sure it relates to my job, but I could see how this would be the case for job where it doesn't really matter for safety or security.

I work in aerospace/defense industry and thorough background checks and pee tests are just par for the course.  They have to keep that government contract money rolling in and if the DOD says jump, they jump.  Everyone knows this going in, and I don't have a problem with it.  I have never been asked to submit to a test before a job offer was extended -- that would be fishy.  And I've never heard of a random test being performed where I'm at now, even after weed was legalized in WA.  We did get a nice little "reminder" email about the drug policy after it was passed though...

It really doesn't bother me at all because it's been done fairly, safely and only once before starting the job.  I'd take little issue with being tested in the future unless I was getting "randomly" screened often and/or it wasn't being done at a safe, third party location.

Edited to add: I've been refused a Rx for birth control from a medical provider because I didn't want to have a full pelvic exam.  I find that FAR more invasive than peeing in a cup, so it puts it in a different perspective for me.  Since we're dealing with peeing in cups here specifically, I have also been required multiple times to pee in a cup before receiving new BC prescriptions and other lady related medical needs to make sure I'm not pregnant.  I guess that's a liability thing?  That annoys me far more than drug testing.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 10:13:20 AM by ChransStache »

Spork

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5753
    • Spork In The Eye
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #92 on: September 15, 2014, 08:56:57 AM »
For the people who dislike urinating in a cup:
Is it because;
A. I would like to enjoy a duddie every now and then.
B. I don't like the fact my Employer can't trust who they hired.
C. I don't think anyone should have the power to make me pee in a cup, for any reason.

D. Guilty until proven innocent is a bad methodology

Cromacster

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1696
  • Location: Minnesnowta
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #93 on: September 15, 2014, 10:23:27 AM »
(and nobody who is intelligent does drugs anyway)

How's the view from up their?...or is it up there?  Not sure....mind so fuzzy

Update:
I should just add for clarification.  To say that no intelligent person uses drugs is a pretty unintelligent thing to say.  Even further where does the line end.  Alcohol? Nicotine? Or is it just the ones where some bureaucrat decided it was a danger to society and to protect the future of our children must be stricken from the land?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 10:38:54 AM by Cromacster »

shotgunwilly

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 547
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #94 on: September 15, 2014, 10:36:37 AM »
For the people who dislike urinating in a cup:
Is it because;
A. I would like to enjoy a duddie every now and then.
B. I don't like the fact my Employer can't trust who they hired.
C. I don't think anyone should have the power to make me pee in a cup, for any reason.

+1

I'm confused.  Every single job I've had, and yes I mean professional jobs, have required a drug test before you are hired.  I don't get the complaints here.  I also don't get the "it should be illegal."  They have a right to hire you or not and you are consenting to take a drug test, not forced.  Don't want to take it? No problem. Go find work elsewhere.

Simple Abundant Living

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
    • Simple Abundant Living
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #95 on: September 15, 2014, 10:59:27 AM »
I just have a couple more things to say.  The patients I test who complain the most end up with inappropriate UDS results.  The same goes for the ones who refuse to meet with the pain psychologist "I've never been to a shrink in my life!"  (almost a guaranteed moderate to high risk, personality disorder, etc.).

Also, I do not have a problem with legal medicinal marijuana.  I do have a problem with people buying and using illegal drugs.  I feel like you have blood on your hands for you are feeding an industry that is guilty of every gross and horrific crime against humanity (and the reason so many young people from Central America are trying to get to the US or die).  It is not a victimless crime.

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #96 on: September 15, 2014, 11:07:29 AM »
What about all the employers who ask for your facebook password?

What if they ask for your username on the Mr. Money Mustache forum?

seattlecyclone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5072
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Seattle, WA
    • My blog
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #97 on: September 15, 2014, 11:08:12 AM »
I do have a problem with people buying and using illegal drugs.  I feel like you have blood on your hands for you are feeding an industry that is guilty of every gross and horrific crime against humanity (and the reason so many young people from Central America are trying to get to the US or die).  It is not a victimless crime.

Have you ever considered that the violence only happens because the drugs are illegal? The only reason there were ever alcohol trafficking cartels shooting people up to defend their turf in America was because Prohibition made the industry illegal, so those participating in it had no reason to respect the rest of the laws. We finally repealed that because it did more harm than good, and I'm happy we seem to be headed in that direction with marijuana as well. Let's tax and regulate the stuff and get rid of the need for a black market.

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #98 on: September 15, 2014, 11:09:28 AM »
For the people who dislike urinating in a cup:
Is it because;
A. I would like to enjoy a duddie every now and then.
B. I don't like the fact my Employer can't trust who they hired.
C. I don't think anyone should have the power to make me pee in a cup, for any reason.

+1

I'm confused.  Every single job I've had, and yes I mean professional jobs, have required a drug test before you are hired.  I don't get the complaints here.  I also don't get the "it should be illegal."  They have a right to hire you or not and you are consenting to take a drug test, not forced.  Don't want to take it? No problem. Go find work elsewhere.

But . . . every single job you've had has asked for it.  If we get to the point where every single employer asks for it, how can we continue to say that the applicant has a choice?

Cpa Cat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1643
Re: Would You Urinate in a Cup?
« Reply #99 on: September 15, 2014, 11:11:30 AM »
I've always checked the box saying I would consent, but I've never been asked for one. I don't think I've ever worked anywhere that didn't explicitly say I could be terminated if I refused to take a drug test.

Rumor has it that illegal stimulant use is rampant at some accounting firms - especially during busy season. I'm thinking maybe they just don't want to know.

Or, whoever is in charge of the decision just snorted some cocaine in the bathroom.

Hard to say.