Author Topic: Gift giving dilemma  (Read 1982 times)

Cyanne

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Gift giving dilemma
« on: May 18, 2021, 04:54:42 PM »
I need to vent. I have a group of former coworkers that still get together for happy hours and celebrations. There are four of us. One of these friends is throwing herself a birthday party in a park. She specifically stated no gifts in her invitation. So far so good. Here is my problem. One of the other friends suggested that the three of us go in on a gift. My first thought was no. No gifts were requested. The other friend said she really wanted to do something so I agreed to spend around $25.

Today that friend sent me a picture of a Pandora bracelet and charm she purchased. My share is $53. Ugh. I really hate starting a precedent of spending $150 for birthdays. Worse, the friend who started this is looking for part-time work to supplement her retirement income!

I can afford this but I really think it’s a bad idea. What do I say? I’m also afraid if I don’t contribute that my friend who really can’t afford it will pick up my share too!

Any suggestions?

Jenny Wren

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2021, 05:00:07 PM »
Ug, I find it distasteful that the others went against the printed wishes of the recipient and insisted on a gift. How disrespectful of the birthday person. In my opinion it's too late to back out now. I would personally only chip in the $25 I committed to initially and I would be clear that it was all I had budgeted due to the previous conversation. Adults have to live with the consequences of their actions, and the adult that purchased the bracelet chose to go over an agreed upon budget even though they themselves are not financially solvent. That's a them problem, not your problem. You were clear on your budget.

Cyanne

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2021, 05:22:42 PM »
I agree. I hate the idea of bringing a gift to a person who requested no gifts. If I didn’t care about the gift buyer’s feelings I would send $25 and call it a day. Yes, she is making a poor money decision. She would give the shirt off her back to help out anyone in need. I don’t think she would ever even consider spending this on herself. I’m trying to think of a way to get her to reduce the gift or skip it entirely. I’m not sure what is driving this.

TheFrenchCat

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2021, 05:25:36 PM »
I agree that you shouldn't go over the agreed budget.  Is this a friend who normally pushes your boundaries?  You said no, they pushed.  You said $25, they're pushing again.  Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I see this as disrespectful.  I definitely wouldn't be happy in your position. 

Cyanne

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2021, 05:35:26 PM »
No, this friend does not usually push boundaries. That is what is so perplexing to me. What is the motivation for going overboard? She recently went through chemo again and has a lot of health issues.  I wonder if she feels like her time is limited and she needs to go all out.

Villanelle

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2021, 07:14:34 PM »
I'd contact them and just say that since Jill asked for now gifts, I'm definitely not comfortable  spending that much and I'd rather stick with the $25 limit we discussed earlier. 

But to be fair, I likely wouldn't have agreed to go in on a gift at all, given the original 'no gifts' request. 

draco44

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2021, 07:37:28 PM »
Sorry you are dealing with this. Ugh. Like French Cat says, the fact that this is a double push of boundaries ($0 -> ~$25 -> $50) makes this especially bad. And purchasing the gift without first confirming the doubling in per person cost is a socially oblivious move at best. Is this bracelet returnable? I'd think it's extremely likely since Pandora bracelets are a widely available commercial jewelry item.

I do think to some extent you left yourself open to trouble by agreeing to an amount "around" $25 rather than setting a firm cap. And by agreeing to $25 when no gifts were asked for. Be careful in the future with this person not to do that again. However, I don't think doubling an expected payment should ever be considered just rounding up the bill. I second the advice that @Botany Bae gave to respect your earlier promise to chip in but not go above $25. It will likely be an uncomfortable conversation but as you yourself anticipate, not drawing a line now could lead to a cycle of being pressured into stuff like this regularly in the future.  Or lead to an even more awkward conversation cutting things off next time around. Reset expectations now and nip this in the bud before it escalates. If you need scripts, I suggest looking up posts by @Malcat. She basically gives a masterclass on boundaries in this forum whenever she appears.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 07:40:03 PM by draco44 »

Cyanne

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2021, 07:49:56 PM »
Thank you to everyone who commented. I will be speaking to my friend and letting her know that I am uncomfortable giving such an expensive birthday gift especially since no gifts were requested. I did set myself up for this and will take better care to avoid it in the future. I’m afraid my fear of disappointing my gift giving friend and compromising my first thought (no gift) has led to this.

Metalcat

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2021, 08:14:44 PM »
Oh hey, I saw the cat signal.

Uh, yeah, you can't avoid conflict here, so it's really just a matter of picking the boundary you want to defend.

The thing is, the extra $28.doesn't matter and isn't the point, so forget about that for a second. The conflict you need to address is the person spending more than you agreed to in the first place and that you don't want this to passively become the standard.

First, always give friends the benefit of the doubt that they're reasonable people. If they aren't...don't be friends with them. So if these two other people are reasonable, then talk to them, like any normal, respectful adult would, and say that you are not cool with being asked to pay double what you agreed to, and don't want to set a precedent that everyone needs a $150 gift for their birthdays.

These are not unreasonable statements to make to friends who supposedly like and respect you.

Might you piss them off? Maybe.
Might they decide that you're cheap? Possibly
Might they gossip about you when you're not around? Newsflash, they already probably do.
Should any of that impact you? Absolutely not

If it were me, and this was the first time this happened, I would personally just pay the extra $28, but make my feelings and expectations very clear, not getting mad at anyone, not blaming anyone, just graciously contributing and setting firm boundaries as to what you will and will not do in the future.

I'm not saying you should do that, I'm sharing an example of how what you do with the extra $28 is utterly irrelevant to how to address the issues of boundaries.

You can't control how people will react, you can only be as true to your values as possible, which is to show that you care, but that you also won't be made to spend money didn't agree to ever again.

This really isn't as complicated as you think it is. You only think it is because you're trying to figure out how to avoid conflict, when instead, you should be embracing the opportunity to engage in really constructive conflict with people who have no interest in hurting you.

The key to really constructive conflict is to not focus at all on worrying about how the other person/people will react, but instead on how you want to make them feel when you talk to them.

So if your goal is that everyone feel respected, then focus on showing that what you need is respect, and what you are giving in return is also respect.

Really, don't worry about pissing people off. Pissing people off is not the end of the world. If you are coming from a loving place, they'll get it and respect it if they even give half a shit about you.

SunnyDays

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2021, 08:59:51 PM »
Hah, yeah I wouldn’t worry about pissing her off either, because she didn’t seem to mind pissing you off by spending more than your set amount or the birthday girl by buying anything at all.  That said, I wouldn’t TRY to piss her off, so a polite but frank conversation is in order.  Like, “It’s thoughtful of you to want to give something, but I’m concerned that it’s a little too expensive for everyone and might make the birthday girl feel uncomfortable.  Do you think a less extravagant gift would be acceptable?”  If she says yes, then great, if no, then tell her you’ll let it go this time, but not a second time.

iris lily

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2021, 09:14:57 PM »
Sure to all the above about boundaries, but please also respect the boundary of the birthday person who just wants her friends around her for a Party.

What a bore it is to have to field presents, deal with objects, and  the obligations that go along with them when all you want to do is have a nice dinner and evening with your friends.

charis

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2021, 09:46:52 PM »
I would probably pay the extra $28 as well. And make my feelings on the matter be known to the gift organizer. I don't really understand this issue because I'm not familiar with the practice of giving adult friends birthday presents, even if they throw a party (a bottle of wine, flowers, or a token of some sort maybe). Is this common?

Villanelle

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2021, 08:02:47 AM »
To me, the problem with paying the $28 this time is that the Buyer (B) and Other Friend (O) are also well aware that you are spending $54 on Sally's birthday.  When it is O's bday and *then* you hold the line and won't spend $54, I can see how that would create friction.  And that will make it more difficult to hold the line later, as well.  That's why I think you need to do it now.  Otherwise, you implicitly accept (and help set) the standard that in this friend group, about $50 is culturally what is spent on bday gifts.

Of course you don't have to spend the same on B and O's gifts and you did on S's gift.  But I think most friend groups have a culture, and it does make sense that part of that is things like how extravagant (or not) gifts are within the group.  I wouldn't be comfortable giving friend 1 a $54pp gift, and then friend 2 a $23pp gift.  So if I let it go now, it would be even more difficult to hold the boundary later, because I've made it clear that it isn't actually a firm boundary since I already broke it, and that I'm actually quite willing to spend more.  Just not on O, but on Sally.  If you allow it this time then the next conversation will be even more difficult than the one you already dread having.

charis

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2021, 11:14:10 AM »
To me, the problem with paying the $28 this time is that the Buyer (B) and Other Friend (O) are also well aware that you are spending $54 on Sally's birthday.  When it is O's bday and *then* you hold the line and won't spend $54, I can see how that would create friction.  And that will make it more difficult to hold the line later, as well.  That's why I think you need to do it now.  Otherwise, you implicitly accept (and help set) the standard that in this friend group, about $50 is culturally what is spent on bday gifts.

Of course you don't have to spend the same on B and O's gifts and you did on S's gift.  But I think most friend groups have a culture, and it does make sense that part of that is things like how extravagant (or not) gifts are within the group.  I wouldn't be comfortable giving friend 1 a $54pp gift, and then friend 2 a $23pp gift.  So if I let it go now, it would be even more difficult to hold the boundary later, because I've made it clear that it isn't actually a firm boundary since I already broke it, and that I'm actually quite willing to spend more.  Just not on O, but on Sally.  If you allow it this time then the next conversation will be even more difficult than the one you already dread having.

I think this can be solved by not participating in group gifts at all after this, then there's no conversation.  If asked about a group gift for the other friend, say "oh, I already picked something up, but thanks for offering to include me."  I would much rather do that than be the friend who stiffed them for Sally's gift (which is how it's likely to be perceived). If you do pay, obviously indicate that $53 is more than you planned to pay and you won't be spending that much in the future.  Then just do that.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 11:19:44 AM by charis »

Metalcat

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2021, 11:24:40 AM »
To me, the problem with paying the $28 this time is that the Buyer (B) and Other Friend (O) are also well aware that you are spending $54 on Sally's birthday.  When it is O's bday and *then* you hold the line and won't spend $54, I can see how that would create friction.  And that will make it more difficult to hold the line later, as well.  That's why I think you need to do it now.  Otherwise, you implicitly accept (and help set) the standard that in this friend group, about $50 is culturally what is spent on bday gifts.

Of course you don't have to spend the same on B and O's gifts and you did on S's gift.  But I think most friend groups have a culture, and it does make sense that part of that is things like how extravagant (or not) gifts are within the group.  I wouldn't be comfortable giving friend 1 a $54pp gift, and then friend 2 a $23pp gift.  So if I let it go now, it would be even more difficult to hold the boundary later, because I've made it clear that it isn't actually a firm boundary since I already broke it, and that I'm actually quite willing to spend more.  Just not on O, but on Sally.  If you allow it this time then the next conversation will be even more difficult than the one you already dread having.

Not necessarily.

That was my whole point. The details of what is done this time with the extra $28 are irrelevant to what boundaries are established moving forward.

Again, if people focus on trying to avoid conflict and reduce friction, that's where shit gets complicated. If people just focus on CLEARLY and respectfully communicating their expectations and limits, then the details of the situation almost don't matter.

She only sets an expectation that she'll spend that again if she allows that to be an expectation that gets set.

I gave my brother money once as a favour to my father, and I made it abundantly clear that he would never, ever get money from me ever again. I have less chance now of him asking for money in the future than if he never had in the first place. I didn't set an expectation that he can get money from me by giving it to him, I set the expectation CLEARLY that he can't.

Conflict gives you the opportunity to clarify your expectations. That's why conflict is so valuable.

Villanelle

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2021, 02:11:05 PM »
To me, the problem with paying the $28 this time is that the Buyer (B) and Other Friend (O) are also well aware that you are spending $54 on Sally's birthday.  When it is O's bday and *then* you hold the line and won't spend $54, I can see how that would create friction.  And that will make it more difficult to hold the line later, as well.  That's why I think you need to do it now.  Otherwise, you implicitly accept (and help set) the standard that in this friend group, about $50 is culturally what is spent on bday gifts.

Of course you don't have to spend the same on B and O's gifts and you did on S's gift.  But I think most friend groups have a culture, and it does make sense that part of that is things like how extravagant (or not) gifts are within the group.  I wouldn't be comfortable giving friend 1 a $54pp gift, and then friend 2 a $23pp gift.  So if I let it go now, it would be even more difficult to hold the boundary later, because I've made it clear that it isn't actually a firm boundary since I already broke it, and that I'm actually quite willing to spend more.  Just not on O, but on Sally.  If you allow it this time then the next conversation will be even more difficult than the one you already dread having.

Not necessarily.

That was my whole point. The details of what is done this time with the extra $28 are irrelevant to what boundaries are established moving forward.

Again, if people focus on trying to avoid conflict and reduce friction, that's where shit gets complicated. If people just focus on CLEARLY and respectfully communicating their expectations and limits, then the details of the situation almost don't matter.

She only sets an expectation that she'll spend that again if she allows that to be an expectation that gets set.

I gave my brother money once as a favour to my father, and I made it abundantly clear that he would never, ever get money from me ever again. I have less chance now of him asking for money in the future than if he never had in the first place. I didn't set an expectation that he can get money from me by giving it to him, I set the expectation CLEARLY that he can't.

Conflict gives you the opportunity to clarify your expectations. That's why conflict is so valuable.

Of course.  Which is why I said, "Of course you don't have to spend the same on B and O's gifts and you did on S's gift."  But I think it makes the conversation even more difficult to have than it will be now.  Because frankly, by spending $54 now, "allowing that to be an expectation that is set" is exactly what she has done.  And to me, it would send a mixed message to say, "I don't really want to do this, but I'm going to do this,", which would make it more difficult *for me* to have the conversation next time, if there is a next time, or to set spending for the next birthday.  If it wouldn't make it harder for you, that's great, but I'm offering my perspective. 

Conflict does give the opportunity to clarify expectations.  But I don't really see the point in clarifying the limit and then ignoring it by handing over $54, unless maybe the item isn't returnable.

I think this is a bit different than your brother because the OP set the expectation and it was ignored.  You didn't tell your brother, "I won't lend you money", then have him ask and lend him money but say, "but never again".  In that case, it seems unlikely your brother would believe you the second time, because he didn't believe you the first time and you confirmed for him that he shouldn't have believed you because you didn't stick to what you said. That's much more parallel to the current situation because the OP already set a limit and had it ignored.  They said 'about $25" and then were asked to spend double that.  And that's part of my point.  if you set a limit and cave on it, then you've shown people it's not really a firm limit.  Sure, next time you can say, "but I really mean it this time!", but you've devalued your words by not standing by them the first time.  You've shown them that you may say it, but that doesn't mean that you actually mean it.  That's very different than if no limit had been discussed until not, and then this becomes an opportunity to set a limit.

Again, this is what would work best *for me*, and what would make an uncomfortable conversation easier *for me*. 

charis

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2021, 07:32:49 PM »
Paying the extra amount can be a lesson learned, not an expectation set. You obviously disagree, but it doesn't have to be uncomfortable at any point.

Metalcat

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2021, 07:42:33 PM »
To me, the problem with paying the $28 this time is that the Buyer (B) and Other Friend (O) are also well aware that you are spending $54 on Sally's birthday.  When it is O's bday and *then* you hold the line and won't spend $54, I can see how that would create friction.  And that will make it more difficult to hold the line later, as well.  That's why I think you need to do it now.  Otherwise, you implicitly accept (and help set) the standard that in this friend group, about $50 is culturally what is spent on bday gifts.

Of course you don't have to spend the same on B and O's gifts and you did on S's gift.  But I think most friend groups have a culture, and it does make sense that part of that is things like how extravagant (or not) gifts are within the group.  I wouldn't be comfortable giving friend 1 a $54pp gift, and then friend 2 a $23pp gift.  So if I let it go now, it would be even more difficult to hold the boundary later, because I've made it clear that it isn't actually a firm boundary since I already broke it, and that I'm actually quite willing to spend more.  Just not on O, but on Sally.  If you allow it this time then the next conversation will be even more difficult than the one you already dread having.

Not necessarily.

That was my whole point. The details of what is done this time with the extra $28 are irrelevant to what boundaries are established moving forward.

Again, if people focus on trying to avoid conflict and reduce friction, that's where shit gets complicated. If people just focus on CLEARLY and respectfully communicating their expectations and limits, then the details of the situation almost don't matter.

She only sets an expectation that she'll spend that again if she allows that to be an expectation that gets set.

I gave my brother money once as a favour to my father, and I made it abundantly clear that he would never, ever get money from me ever again. I have less chance now of him asking for money in the future than if he never had in the first place. I didn't set an expectation that he can get money from me by giving it to him, I set the expectation CLEARLY that he can't.

Conflict gives you the opportunity to clarify your expectations. That's why conflict is so valuable.

Of course.  Which is why I said, "Of course you don't have to spend the same on B and O's gifts and you did on S's gift."  But I think it makes the conversation even more difficult to have than it will be now.  Because frankly, by spending $54 now, "allowing that to be an expectation that is set" is exactly what she has done.  And to me, it would send a mixed message to say, "I don't really want to do this, but I'm going to do this,", which would make it more difficult *for me* to have the conversation next time, if there is a next time, or to set spending for the next birthday.  If it wouldn't make it harder for you, that's great, but I'm offering my perspective. 

Conflict does give the opportunity to clarify expectations.  But I don't really see the point in clarifying the limit and then ignoring it by handing over $54, unless maybe the item isn't returnable.

I think this is a bit different than your brother because the OP set the expectation and it was ignored.  You didn't tell your brother, "I won't lend you money", then have him ask and lend him money but say, "but never again".  In that case, it seems unlikely your brother would believe you the second time, because he didn't believe you the first time and you confirmed for him that he shouldn't have believed you because you didn't stick to what you said. That's much more parallel to the current situation because the OP already set a limit and had it ignored.  They said 'about $25" and then were asked to spend double that.  And that's part of my point.  if you set a limit and cave on it, then you've shown people it's not really a firm limit.  Sure, next time you can say, "but I really mean it this time!", but you've devalued your words by not standing by them the first time.  You've shown them that you may say it, but that doesn't mean that you actually mean it.  That's very different than if no limit had been discussed until not, and then this becomes an opportunity to set a limit.

Again, this is what would work best *for me*, and what would make an uncomfortable conversation easier *for me*.

Yes, that's best *for you*.

My point was that OP needs to figure out what's best *for them* and what happens with the extra $28 isn't going to make or break anything. How they handle it will.


Cyanne

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2021, 07:43:56 PM »
Thanks again for all of your responses. I did talk with my friend and told her I was uncomfortable giving a gift when no gifts were requested. She told me not to worry about it. I did not need to contribute. Because I feel bad that I had already committed to contribute, I told her that I would give her money but it was for her and not the gift. I do not want my name attached. She can use it to spend as she sees fit or donate.

In the future I will just decline any opportunities to go in on a gift.

Catbert

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Re: Gift giving dilemma
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2021, 10:31:44 AM »
^^^ Sounds like a great solution.