Author Topic: Would you marry someone unmustachian?  (Read 16128 times)

SachaFiscal

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Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« on: April 02, 2016, 09:06:19 AM »
If your girlfriend/boyfriend were perfect for you in so many ways except levels of desired spending and consumerism, would you marry them?  For example you want to live in a modest home, take moderate vacations, buy used cars and keep them for a long time and don't need the latest and greatest gadgets. They would love to buy a new car or lease one every few years, they want a fancier house, they need the latest computer and phone and TV, they want to go on several expensive vacations a year.

But you love them and they get you (except your frugality) like no one else ever has.

BlueHouse

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2016, 09:26:28 AM »
My desire for frugality is not inspired by a greater reason than the desire for safety and security. So if my SO 's income matched the spending habits and allowed for me to continue living in the manner to which I've become accustomed (whether frugal or insanely wasteful), then yep, no problem. But for me it's all about security and knowing I won't become destitute.

dandypandys

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2016, 09:28:46 AM »
Tricky question. There was an interesting Dave Ramsey podcast caller with this same Q recentlyish.. https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/the-dave-ramsey-show/id77001367
his answer was try to get her on board and if not- no. But that was more serious debt related- ie bring the whole household down with her.
You could be a positive influence  and make mmm fun! :)



Paul der Krake

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2016, 09:40:10 AM »
Probably not. Being wasteful is a major red flag.

SachaFiscal

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2016, 10:12:26 AM »
He is on board with saving and retiring early but with all his frills plus some support for some of his family members will make that date later than I would like. He said that I can retire earlier (basically when we have enough to for our basic needs) then he would work longer to pay for the extras. But retiring by myself years before him sounds a bit lonely. I think I might also feel a bit guilty being retired while he still has to work. He likes work more than me but both our jobs are quite stressful.

We made a combined plan but he keeps adding major items to it like a car for his brother and helping with college for his nephews.  We've been together for 6 years and have just started talking about marriage. I was really excited about it because I can't really imagine spending my life without him and he's into eloping which being previously married is really the only kind of wedding I want.

I guess I feel like if I'm married, I would feel obligated to help with these extra expenses but if we're just living together, I'm just committed to him and not really to his family. I might help out anyway but I wouldn't be on the hook.

For me it's about safety and security too.  I don't have kids and don't plan on it so there's just me to take care of myself in old age. I'm worried that I'll end up having to spend my stash on a family emergency and won't have enough at the end. But maybe I'm worrying too much and should just go for it? Just say yes to love?





« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 10:14:01 AM by SachaFiscal »

BrooklineBiker

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2016, 10:25:38 AM »
I have a non-mustachian, spendy spouse. I am approaching my 50s & know I will resent her more over time as I extend my working life over the years to pay for a house in a high COL area, iPhones, casual dining with her consumerist in laws. Even if you have separate finances (my wife & I do) you will be indirectly subsidizing wasteful behavior at the expense of your own vision of the future..

KMMK

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2016, 10:29:09 AM »
It depends on how far away his tastes are from mine, and does he have the income to support that level of spending. I couldn't be with someone who didn't know how to save money at all, or never thought about purchases, lived completely impulsively. I'd also have a hard time respecting someone who seemed to feel entitled. Yes, my current boyfriend (likely future husband) has some toys and wants a larger house than I want. But he isn't interested in buying the biggest house the bank would allow, or more than he feels is reasonable. Toys are purchased with a lot of thought. And he knows how to save money. So, yeah, we aren't totally in-sync, but it's close enough that all the other good things overrule the slight differences in our consumerism levels.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2016, 10:32:37 AM »
It's really hard for me to speculate, but I would say I could marry someone who is unmustachian, but not someone who is anti-mustachian.  I think it would be hard for me to stay with someone who puts anyone else's security ahead of the security of me/him/our kids.  Things like a car for his brother and college for his nephews (any more than standard birthday/Christmas-type gifts) would be too much for me.  A car for his brother is definitely out of my comfort zone.  It is admirable that he is a caring and generous person, but if that has too much of an impact on your own feelings of safety/security, that is a problem.

overwhelmed

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2016, 10:34:56 AM »
Obviously only you can answer this question but money discord is a huge stress in relationships. After 6 years, you know each others financial philosophy already. I believe you mentioned that you agreed and then he added in new things, so as much as you agree on some goals, not sure the decisions match the goal.

In the end, you need to decide if you can agree with/live with or not. If you feel strongly about your goals and he feels equally strongly about financially helping/supporting his family, you are going to either find a way to compromise or not.

Best of luck to you no matter what you decide.


Shane

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2016, 10:39:34 AM »
It would help if OP defined "unmustachian." That word may mean different things to different people.

It could mean that your future spouse is in debt up to his eyeballs, yet still spending 120% of what he makes with no intention of changing. In that case, I'd say dump him and find somebody else.

Or it could just mean that he doesn't want to rinse out zip lock bags and reuse them or that he refuses to ride a bike to work or likes to eat out at fast food restaurants for lunch instead of packing a lunch. In that case, I'd say you might be able to gradually win him over to your way of being more frugal over time.

Tigerpine

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2016, 10:56:26 AM »
Really, as mentioned already, it's a matter of degree.  If she wasn't "mustachian" but understood where I was coming from and supportive of my efforts, then I think it could work out.  In return, of course, I'd have to understand her needs and be supportive of her.

However, if she just wanted to spend, spend, spend, and expect me to spend along with her, it would never work out in the long term.  It would be better not to get married and complicate matters.

Lagom

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2016, 11:05:35 AM »
I did and it was the worst mistake of my life. Now I am engaged to someone who shares my values and I am 1000x happier. YMMV.

That said, I suppose it's possible to make it work, but I would propose a few caveats based on my own experience (while I can't claim total objectivity, the INTJ in me is usually pretty good at trying!):

1. If you are both pretty young (say mid 20s or younger), I would strongly advise against marriage until you have been in a committed relationship for at least a few years and genuinely think you are on the same page and OK with your divergent financial habits. At 32, I only feel like I've truly begun to internalize my own values over the past couple years. I know it's possible to do this earlier, but then again, I also felt pretty damn sure of myself when I was 25 and justifying away my toxic relationship.

2. I am a strong supporter of merged finances, but in this instance, I suspect separate finances is almost mandatory.

3. Extremely frank and open communication is key. They need to know in no uncertain terms that you will be retiring years, maybe decades before them, that you expect them to pay for their own consumerist desires 9 times out of 10, and so forth. Personally, if I were to try this again (which I wouldn't), I would err on the side of making them believe I will compromise less than I actually would. They need to be OK with the fact that you won't be going out to dinner with them often and/or expect them to pay when you do (or go on fancy vacations, etc.).

4. Despite being spendy, they absolutely must abhor consumer debt as much as you do. If they think carrying credit card balances is OK, that's a deal breaker. They also must believe in saving at least a little, if only to achieve the traditional retirement age.

5. You also need to have a retirement plan that's compatible with their non-retirement plan (like the example given below regarding a desire to travel extensively, or not).

Just my 2c. I view "mustachianism" as a core value, and relationships that are built on a foundation of differing core values are almost always shaky.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 11:54:28 PM by Lagom »

ender

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2016, 11:08:12 AM »
What are your life goals?

It doesn't matter if someone spends a lot of money if it doesn't affect your life goals.

If your life goals are to retire at age 35 and travel the world and your SO wants to work until they are 60 you almost assuredly WILL have serious conflict. But if you don't care and just want to pursue local hobbies...


SachaFiscal

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2016, 12:26:19 PM »
It would help if OP defined "unmustachian." That word may mean different things to different people.

It could mean that your future spouse is in debt up to his eyeballs, yet still spending 120% of what he makes with no intention of changing. In that case, I'd say dump him and find somebody else.

Or it could just mean that he doesn't want to rinse out zip lock bags and reuse them or that he refuses to ride a bike to work or likes to eat out at fast food restaurants for lunch instead of packing a lunch. In that case, I'd say you might be able to gradually win him over to your way of being more frugal over time.

I suppose I feel like he is less mustachian about certain things than me, rather than unmustachian. He doesn't carry credit card debt but doesn't mind an expensive car loan or buying the latest and greatest smart phone or TV, etc.  We're mostly on the same page but there are these big ticket items that I recently found out about that are making me nervous. And I feel a little bit bad talking to him about it because he's earning the money to pay for them. I don't really feel I can tell him not to help out his family. If it were my family I might do the same. Only my family would never ask and they are fairly good with money so they don't need to.

SachaFiscal

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2016, 12:29:13 PM »
What are your life goals?

It doesn't matter if someone spends a lot of money if it doesn't affect your life goals.

If your life goals are to retire at age 35 and travel the world and your SO wants to work until they are 60 you almost assuredly WILL have serious conflict. But if you don't care and just want to pursue local hobbies...

I live in a pretty nice town and I think I would fill my days with hobbies and some volunteering. My needs and goals are fairly simple. Learn new things, new skills. Meditate. Play music. Maybe some writing. Art. Things I used to like to do before getting absorbed into the corporate machine. 

MsPeacock

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2016, 12:34:13 PM »
Probably not - because I can't see myself getting into a serious relationship w/ someone whose financial goals/perspective were significantly different than mine.

Current BF is great, although he is still learning about finances. But he is thoughtful about the decisions that he makes and doesn't overspend.

Ex husband - makes terrible financial decisions (inherited that from his parents). Bad decisions not so much in terms of day to day spending, but doing big  things like buying a second house to live in w/o finishing projects on first house so that it can neither be sold nor rented out. We had disagreements about financials stuff while married (nope - not going to put our house downpayment in a hedge fund, etc.) but since i was the one who managed finances we remained mostly ok. I had to do a fair amount of financial repairs/fixing each year when taxes were due because he never grasped how to work his withholdings. Now that he has been on his own for 5 years I get the sense that he has dug a good hole for himself (makes 300K + and can't pay $800 he owes me for orthodontist work until he gets his next paycheck).

ETA - when we got married we were in college/grad school and didn't really have any money to speak of, so the problems weren't apparent at that time.

iris lily

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2016, 12:40:05 PM »
No. Absolutely not.

Back decades ago when I was dating, I always dated men who were some version of frugal. Now granted, I wasnt the type to attract high rollers, but anyone who threw  money around made me nervous.

I was always interested in how much of their money they kept, less interested in how much they made.
Simplicity and frugality were character attributes I highly value.  Would not marry into financial chaos or even financial carelessness or wastefulness.

It kind of reminds me of emotional chaos, its just too much drama added to life, the worrying  about bills, the rushng around buyng thngs and consuming services. Ugh, nope.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 12:47:08 PM by iris lily »

Guava

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2016, 02:21:23 PM »
If we were that far in big ticket items like houses and cars, I don't know if I could. Then again, it's all about compromise too. I am happy with my one car garage but my fiancé has and old car hobby and wants to do a 3 car garage addition.  Yes, this is absolutely unmustachian, but I knew from the beginning he had an old car hobby and will gladly delay my FIRE date a few years so he can enjoy his hobby now. In turn, he participates in all sorts of mustachian things he probably prefers not to do.

I think you should ask your SO why he wants to buy his brother a car or pay for education for his nephew. Or ask if he could not get the latest new tech every time it comes out but maybe every other new update. Then see if there is any sort of middle ground. Then you need to decide if you will resent him if he delays your FIRE date. If you think you will, you have your answer. Also see if there are some mustachian habits he will pick up to help offset his unmustachian ones.

Stupendous

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2016, 02:25:12 PM »
Nope. Not worth the hassle. I wouldn't even get that far in a relationship with someone to consider marriage. I like the security that comes with saving 50% of my income. If you're married and they unexpectedly die or become disabled you're left with the debt and lack of savings and a fun mess to deal with.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 02:26:43 PM by Stupendous »

trashmanz

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2016, 02:55:05 PM »
If they are FI then no problem.

Runrooster

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2016, 03:56:50 PM »
Well, i am not easy to date, so I would factor that in.  Basically, the Venn diagram of things that matter to me gives a tiny intersection.  Frugality is one of the easier things to give up.  Basically it comes down to whether I am getting something positive out of it and then whether I could find someone who gave me more.  Also can we coexist peacefully without trying to change each other?  Not an easy question to answer, but important to be able to discuss openly.  Does SO think I'm cheap or is embarrassed by my biking, cheaper car, clothes, home cooked meals?

tobitonic

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2016, 04:11:02 PM »
Probably not - because I can't see myself getting into a serious relationship w/ someone whose financial goals/perspective were significantly different than mine.

Current BF is great, although he is still learning about finances. But he is thoughtful about the decisions that he makes and doesn't overspend.

Ex husband - makes terrible financial decisions (inherited that from his parents). Bad decisions not so much in terms of day to day spending, but doing big  things like buying a second house to live in w/o finishing projects on first house so that it can neither be sold nor rented out. We had disagreements about financials stuff while married (nope - not going to put our house downpayment in a hedge fund, etc.) but since i was the one who managed finances we remained mostly ok. I had to do a fair amount of financial repairs/fixing each year when taxes were due because he never grasped how to work his withholdings. Now that he has been on his own for 5 years I get the sense that he has dug a good hole for himself (makes 300K + and can't pay $800 he owes me for orthodontist work until he gets his next paycheck).

ETA - when we got married we were in college/grad school and didn't really have any money to speak of, so the problems weren't apparent at that time.

Ooh, I've got to ask: what does he do and is HCOL SoCal?

Spork

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2016, 04:21:04 PM »
Would I?  Yes.  I did.  It didn't work out (for lots of reasons, this being only one of them).

Would I again?  No.  On my second try, I married a mustacian (probably more so than myself).  Having similar financial goals is a HUGE stress reliever in a relationship. 

Bee21

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2016, 04:34:08 PM »
It sounds like you resent him spending money on his family. This is something you need to discuss and agree before you get married. Helping a nephew w college might be ok especially if you don't have kids. Why not help a new generation start life well.  Buying a car for brother is the wtf territory. I understand that you are not sure about it. Once you are married these decisions have to be made together. The good news is that you wrote that he can afford it, so it is a values and priorities thing not necessarily overspending. I would be more worried if he insisted on wearing Armani and having a collection of motorbikes while drowning in cc debt. I know people like that.

My ex bf was a mustachian wonderboy ( read a cheap miserable bastard) and living w him was hell bc saving money was so important for him, that it impacted our quality of life. ( he was happy though to subsidise his spendypants mother). Current husband is spendypants extraordinaire (the I can afford it so I buy it type) and we are very happy together. I just had to accept that the truck and boat are not going away and we won't eat rice and beans. I think we managed to negotiate a common ground where we are both comfortable and happy. I wish he spent more time researching investments than his next boat, but we are slowly getting there.

SachaFiscal

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2016, 05:20:23 PM »
Thanks for all the great responses!  Yes I do feel like helping the next generation would be a good thing if we can afford it and don't have to risk running out of money during retirement.  But the car thing does bug me. He already bought his brother a nice car (luxury suv) when he graduated college. But now that car is getting old and having lots of problems. It bothers me a little that his brother got married, had two kids, and is living in a house his parents bought for him and can't save enough to get a car. He and his wife both work, but they don't make nearly as much as we do. They can't afford therapy for their son, so my BF already pays for that. I think that is good though because the therapy is really helping (he has special needs).  But they decided to have another kid, so now they'll have three (not an accident, they consciously decided to get pregnant again). One one hand, I'm excited for the new baby to arrive, but also thinking now we'll need to help out with this one too.

So I said, why don't you get them a used minivan, but the brother wants another big new SUV. The brother and his wife do work hard, they have a special needs kid, and they are really great parents. They have some speedy pants issues. They are frugal is some ways but spendy in others. It's not a black and white situation. I really do love those kids and want them to have good learning opportunities so I'm not totally against helping with college when the time comes. Especially since I don't have kids of my own and I've been lucky enough to be given good opportunities in my life.

Anyhow I probably need to talk with BF about preserving a certain amount needed for retirement so I can feel secure, then the excess we can use to help his family and his gadgets. I think that would be a good compromise.  I think if he is okay with me retiring after we have enough, I would be okay with him working more to pay for those things.

I think it's difficult to find someone who is the exact mustachian match. There will always be compromise. But there is more to a relationship than just money. We are so compatible in so many ways that I think we'll be able to work through the financial differences and come to a happy compromise.


Bee21

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2016, 05:59:05 PM »
I think you are on the right track here. If everything else clicks (and after 6 years you should know) you should go for it. Have firm boundaries about the family and be clear and firm about your non negotiables from the very beginning. You might not agree on how he should support his family, but he should also understand what you think about it and why.

Buying a car for a working adult, who has a particular Wishlist is weird though. I feel for you. Good luck.

MsPeacock

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2016, 06:02:00 PM »
Probably not - because I can't see myself getting into a serious relationship w/ someone whose financial goals/perspective were significantly different than mine.

Current BF is great, although he is still learning about finances. But he is thoughtful about the decisions that he makes and doesn't overspend.

Ex husband - makes terrible financial decisions (inherited that from his parents). Bad decisions not so much in terms of day to day spending, but doing big  things like buying a second house to live in w/o finishing projects on first house so that it can neither be sold nor rented out. We had disagreements about financials stuff while married (nope - not going to put our house downpayment in a hedge fund, etc.) but since i was the one who managed finances we remained mostly ok. I had to do a fair amount of financial repairs/fixing each year when taxes were due because he never grasped how to work his withholdings. Now that he has been on his own for 5 years I get the sense that he has dug a good hole for himself (makes 300K + and can't pay $800 he owes me for orthodontist work until he gets his next paycheck).

ETA - when we got married we were in college/grad school and didn't really have any money to speak of, so the problems weren't apparent at that time.

Ooh, I've got to ask: what does he do and is HCOL SoCal?

Physician. High COL but not in CA. High COL but 300k is plenty, so no excuse.

Uturn

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2016, 06:53:39 PM »
I unwittingly did.  Before we got married, she had two jobs in order to pay down debt.   We sat together and made her a budget, factored in my income and came up with a plan to live off my income and bank hers after the debt was gone,  and I thought all was great.  About a week after we got married, she came clean with ALL of her debt.  It was far, far more than she told me before.  She quit her second job due to "stress of now being married."  Over the next 18 months, I sold anything not nailed down and got the debt knocked out.  But we argued a lot.  The last debt was her car.  One payday I wrote the final check and dropped it in the mail.  Man, I was happy, damn near dancing in my office.  This was when she told me about the three new credit cards that she had been hiding for the last half year.  I met with the lawyer the next afternoon. 

Granted, we did have other problems in our marriage, but this was the final straw.  If you talk to marriage counselors and divorce lawyers, you will find most divorces are caused by money issues. 

Fireball

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2016, 08:25:39 PM »
If your girlfriend/boyfriend were perfect for you in so many ways except levels of desired spending and consumerism, would you marry them?  For example you want to live in a modest home, take moderate vacations, buy used cars and keep them for a long time and don't need the latest and greatest gadgets. They would love to buy a new car or lease one every few years, they want a fancier house, they need the latest computer and phone and TV, they want to go on several expensive vacations a year.

But you love them and they get you (except your frugality) like no one else ever has.

Sure I would. Many people go through life and never find someone to love or that loves them. I'm going to throw that away for money? Not a chance. My wife and I have a lot of differences, money being one of them. We compromise. We work through it. We're a team, for richer or poorer. 

mozar

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2016, 09:22:30 PM »
Quote
But you love them and they get you (except your frugality) like no one else ever has.
That sentence doesn't make sense to me. If they don't get my frugality, they don't get me.

Zikoris

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2016, 09:47:31 PM »
That would mean we had completely 100% opposite life goals and lifestyle preferences, so I just can't see that working out. The idea of living in a big wasteful house, having driving be a regular part of life, and killing off the environment regularly is just so repulsive to me. I would definitely never EVER want to be in a position where my finances were mingled with a person like that - what a disaster. Way too stressful. I'm all about relaxing and enjoying a minimal stress life.

Pigeon

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2016, 10:35:48 PM »
If they were earning and saving in a way that I found responsible, and building a sound financial future sure.  If they were racking up debt or weren't committed to paying off existing debt, no. 

I care about FI.  I don't care about RE.  I'm not and am never going to be hard core mustachian.  I'm frugal by nature and want to have a great deal of financial security.

I would be very careful about making sure I wasn't getting serious about somebody I thought I was going to change, because that doesn't go well very often.

Uturn

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2016, 08:23:45 AM »
A lot of it depends on the two people.  I know a couple where she is a devout Christian and he is agnostic.  They have been together for over 20 years.  Their secret is neither one tells the other that they are wrong.  He knows not to schedule Sunday morning activities with her, she knows that he doesn't care to hear what the pastor said. 

Your partner's spendyness slowing down your FI is one thing, and can be dealt with or tolerated.  Your partner's spendyness moving your FI backwards would be a deal breaker.   

MrsDinero

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2016, 08:58:02 AM »

We made a combined plan but he keeps adding major items to it like a car for his brother and helping with college for his nephews.
If he keeps adding things to the "plan" without you agreeing to then, then you do not have a combined plan.

I guess I feel like if I'm married, I would feel obligated to help with these extra expenses but if we're just living together, I'm just committed to him and not really to his family. I might help out anyway but I wouldn't be on the hook.
This is true, no matter what anyone says, because the two of you are living in the same house sharing the same life.

Mr. D and I keep our expenses separate for a lot of reason, but when it comes to major purchases or expenses we talk about them and come to agreement regardless of whose account the money comes from.

If you are onboard with helping family members out then talk to him about making sure certain conditions are met:  maxing our IRA/401k, no debt (including car payments, etc) and contributing a certain percentage to FIRE savings BEFORE giving left over to family members. 

overwhelmed

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2016, 09:38:43 AM »
Quote
But you love them and they get you (except your frugality) like no one else ever has.
That sentence doesn't make sense to me. If they don't get my frugality, they don't get me.

Mozar - I understand what you are saying and agree but I am going to travel out on a limb here & make an assumption that I know what she is talking about as well.

I was in a relationship with someone who 'got me' as well. Long story short, the relationship ended. I struggled for a long time because I believed that I had found my person. I eventually learned/decided that he was one of the people not meant to stay in my life but to offer a lesson if I was willing to learn it.

It was really hard to accept (really really hard) but what I learned in the end was the importance (to me) that someone 'gets me' on all levels, with no exceptions.

So to Mozar's point, if you can't find a compromise that you both can stick to & can live with happily, I'm not sure that he completely 'gets you'

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2016, 10:12:32 AM »
My mustachianism (simplicity, non-consumerism, love being outside) is too much a part of who I am. To love me is to love these parts of me, and vice versa. So no, I don't think I could.

Cassie

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2016, 11:09:12 AM »
I think I would continue to live with him but not marry him. YOu do not want to have kids so no real reason to make it legal. There are many ways legally to handle things so you each could handle one another medical care if one was incapacitated, etc.  I think it is ridiculous for him to be paying to  help support his brother's family and then they choose to have a 3rd kid. Are you kidding me???

BrickByBrick

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2016, 03:14:26 PM »
It might be time to discuss with your SO that his money gifts and financial support for his brother and his family could be doing more harm than good, setting himself up for a lifetime of dependency and broken relationships when the s*** finally hits the fan (ex: his brother's family inflate their lifestyle - on his dime).

I've seen it multiple times, including in my own family, it never ends well (the offending relatives eventually assume they have a right to your money).

If marriage is being seriously discussed, you need to be upfront, honest, and blunt that your financial future comes first before his brother's.  If his brother's family can't feed themselves, you could provide some meals.  If they lose their home you could even take their kids in (for a while) - but not the parents - they need to be busting it, not moving in to bum off you. 

The way I'm reading your post though is that his brother's situation is not that bad, therefore "their" financial needs should be irrelevant until the two of you are in a comfortable (i.e. FI) financial state.  After that, perhaps then it's time to look at blessing your larger family.

Runrooster

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2016, 06:44:27 PM »
This sounds like a "love your spouse, love his family" situation.  I can see myself in his shoes, if the special needs thing is really what blows their budget and time.  Are they super spendy or just worn thin?  It feels like one of those situations where the entire family pitches in because one person was unlucky. At the same time, the brother giving demands on what the car has to be, and having a third child are some red flags.  His parents bought the house or just the down payment? It sounds like a bit of a black hole financially, and not that different from the situation U-turn was in with endless hidden problems.  I wouldn't marry someone who wouldn't share his financial situation details, and I think his brother needs to do so if hes asking for large cash infusions.

I think you are right to avoid marriage, and reconsider the relationship overall.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2016, 07:02:27 PM »
But you love them and they get you (except your frugality) like no one else ever has.

Marry them? No.

Continue to date them and maintain separate finances for a while and see what happens? Yes.

SachaFiscal

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2016, 07:35:45 PM »
Had a nice talk with the BF.  I think he is willing to compromise on the car purchase.  A sensibly priced used minivan instead of the fancy SUV.  I think it is good that we're talking about these things openly. I think living together without being married may be the ideal situation for us.  It's really worked well thus far.  It allows me to maintain a level of independence that I like and somehow I feel like we appreciate each other more.  Perhaps if we were married we might take each other for granted more.  But that is another post entirely...  Anyway thanks for the responses.  I don't post often but I find that when I do, something good comes out of it.  In this case, it pushed me to talk to my BF about something I was uncomfortable with, and I think brought some things out in the open which is a good thing. Hope y'all had a great weekend!

overwhelmed

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2016, 07:46:42 PM »
Had a nice talk with the BF.  I think he is willing to compromise on the car purchase.  A sensibly priced used minivan instead of the fancy SUV.  I think it is good that we're talking about these things openly. I think living together without being married may be the ideal situation for us.  It's really worked well thus far.  It allows me to maintain a level of independence that I like and somehow I feel like we appreciate each other more.  Perhaps if we were married we might take each other for granted more.  But that is another post entirely...  Anyway thanks for the responses.  I don't post often but I find that when I do, something good comes out of it.  In this case, it pushed me to talk to my BF about something I was uncomfortable with, and I think brought some things out in the open which is a good thing. Hope y'all had a great weekend!

So glad you had a good talk. It sounds like it absolutely was a good thing.

csprof

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2016, 10:56:01 PM »
Had a nice talk with the BF.  I think he is willing to compromise on the car purchase.  A sensibly priced used minivan instead of the fancy SUV.  I think it is good that we're talking about these things openly. I think living together without being married may be the ideal situation for us.  It's really worked well thus far.  It allows me to maintain a level of independence that I like and somehow I feel like we appreciate each other more.  Perhaps if we were married we might take each other for granted more.  But that is another post entirely...  Anyway thanks for the responses.  I don't post often but I find that when I do, something good comes out of it.  In this case, it pushed me to talk to my BF about something I was uncomfortable with, and I think brought some things out in the open which is a good thing. Hope y'all had a great weekend!

So glad you had a good talk. It sounds like it absolutely was a good thing.

Indeed - you beat me to my answer, which was going to be:

Quote
If your girlfriend/boyfriend were perfect for you in so many ways except levels of desired spending and consumerism, would you marry them?

If we could work out the differences and find a way to bridge it that worked for both of us, then I'd take it as a great sign of being able to overcome the myriad other (bleep) that arises in a marriage, so heck yes.  And if not, well, it would be pretty self-evident that there was a huge gap in our problem-solving skills. :)

valk001

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2016, 08:09:48 AM »
I am in the same boat as you, my GF has over 6 figures of debt for a nursing degree and while she wants to get her DNP (Doctorate of Nurse Practitioner) which I fully support education, she also spend thousands on dancing lessons per year. Very ununmustachian.  While we keep our finances very separate, I feel it is going to be a huge point of contention at some point. 

historienne

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2016, 08:45:51 AM »
Do you want kids yourself?  If not, then I think it's a lot easier to work this stuff out.  You can keep your finances largely separate, and he can spend his "extra" money buying all the SUVs that his brother desires, if that's what he wants. 

If you want kids, this is going to get a lot rougher to negotiate.  The money that he is giving away will be money that could go towards your own kids' college education, etc.   That's going to be hard to watch.

OmahaSteph

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2016, 09:04:33 AM »
This is so timely, it isn't even funny.

What about prenups? Or a long engagement while you work out the kinks?

MrsDinero

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2016, 09:46:25 AM »
One other thing to consider is pre-marital counseling which should include financial counseling. There are a lot of reasons to either get married or not get married regardless if you two decide to have children.  However if you do get married it is #1 a financial transaction (with or without a prenup), but also part of marriage is putting the marriage first.  Yes extended family is always part of the package however the two of you should agree to put the your-two lives first.

If the pre-martial counseling doesn't include financial counseling, I recommend Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University.  Some of it is basic stuff that you will find on here, but he does go into handling money as a couple. 

little_brown_dog

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2016, 09:58:23 AM »
[quote author=historienne link=topic=53496.msg1036850#msg1036850 date=is choo459781151

If you want kids, this is going to get a lot rougher to negotiate.  The money that he is giving away will be money that could go towards your own kids' college education, etc.   That's going to be hard to watch.
[/quote]

+1  He does not realize it but when he chooses to subsidize others he is purposefully choosing to prioritize them over himself, his partner, and his own kids. Some people never seem to grasp this concept and it causes immense marital discord. We know a few couples who have continuous fights over one partner's desire to look after dysfunctional family members. I personally could not marry someone who might choose to do that because to me, your number one priority is your partner and kids, not your extended family or friends.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 10:00:23 AM by little_brown_dog »

COlady

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2016, 10:01:56 AM »
Thanks for all the great responses!  Yes I do feel like helping the next generation would be a good thing if we can afford it and don't have to risk running out of money during retirement.  But the car thing does bug me. He already bought his brother a nice car (luxury suv) when he graduated college. But now that car is getting old and having lots of problems. It bothers me a little that his brother got married, had two kids, and is living in a house his parents bought for him and can't save enough to get a car. He and his wife both work, but they don't make nearly as much as we do. They can't afford therapy for their son, so my BF already pays for that. I think that is good though because the therapy is really helping (he has special needs).  But they decided to have another kid, so now they'll have three (not an accident, they consciously decided to get pregnant again). One one hand, I'm excited for the new baby to arrive, but also thinking now we'll need to help out with this one too.

So I said, why don't you get them a used minivan, but the brother wants another big new SUV. The brother and his wife do work hard, they have a special needs kid, and they are really great parents. They have some speedy pants issues. They are frugal is some ways but spendy in others. It's not a black and white situation. I really do love those kids and want them to have good learning opportunities so I'm not totally against helping with college when the time comes. Especially since I don't have kids of my own and I've been lucky enough to be given good opportunities in my life.

Anyhow I probably need to talk with BF about preserving a certain amount needed for retirement so I can feel secure, then the excess we can use to help his family and his gadgets. I think that would be a good compromise.  I think if he is okay with me retiring after we have enough, I would be okay with him working more to pay for those things.

I think it's difficult to find someone who is the exact mustachian match. There will always be compromise. But there is more to a relationship than just money. We are so compatible in so many ways that I think we'll be able to work through the financial differences and come to a happy compromise.

This is so ridiculous that I would hope you're joking but I don't think you are. What does your boyfriend do for work? I would hope he's making at least $500k a year or won the lottery in his past life if he's throwing money around like that. It's great to be generous and want to help others out but as someone else said, you should not help others out at your own peril.

COlady

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Re: Would you marry someone unmustachian?
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2016, 10:04:32 AM »
Of course his brother wants a big new SUV....because he's not the one paying for it! People don't get on their feet and understand finances by having things handed to them. I think that's been discussed more than a few times on this forum....