Author Topic: Would you go back to work?  (Read 2347 times)

Mrsweisass

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Would you go back to work?
« on: September 13, 2019, 09:30:48 AM »
Hi all! Trying to get a gut check/potential face punch of reality in the form of checking my assumptions here.

I am almost 36, 4 kids (ages 7 months to 8 years) and currently make 24k/year for 14/hrs a week of work. Iím a pastor, so the job is very flexible and also not subject to federal taxes (housing allowance. Itís a weird pastor loophole). My husband is a tenured professor and makes 130k.

I am primary at home right now but an opportunity has fallen in my lap and Iím torn. Itís a full time job as a pastor, cash salary would end up around 60k, plus benefits and pension (total package is around 100k). So in purely financial terms it feels like a no brainer. In the past, when I was full time we shoveled my pay into the stock market, with the result that we got a killer mortgage when we bought a house two years ago, and currently have around 420k in the stock market. We are still investing now, but it has slowed down a bit (so thank god for compound interest!).

So hereís my issue: the job would Be tons more money, but also 45 hours a week. Which means my three youngest kids would need some form of childcare or aftercare, which would eat up probably 24k/yr. so I still come out ahead, but I wonder: should I do It? Would the extra investment money be worth it? What say you?

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2019, 10:28:28 AM »
Does your husband's job provide health care benefits for the whole family?  If so, then the benefits from the new job may not be as big of a bump up.

You're 36 with $420k in the stock market, which means you'll likely be ready to FIRE well before the pension would supply much income.

You'd be making $36k/year more, but spending $24k/year more for childcare, so you'd net $12k.  Actually, you'd probably net far less.  Assuming you can exempt the $24k via the Dependent Care Exemption, you'd still pay 32% on that $12k, so you're looking at an additional $8k only.

For gross income purposes, $12,000 / (50 weeks * 31 more hours per week) = $7.74/hour.  Barely minimum wage

Personally, that doesn't sound like a very good deal, from a pure salary perspective.  There may be other benefits that make the job more worth it, but you'd be giving up 31 hours per week of your time (and more importantly, time with your kids) to pursue it.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2019, 10:29:46 AM »
I don't think this is a financial decision so much as a lifestyle one.  Is the extra $12k/yr in investments worth spending less time with your 4 kids?  Or do you need a break from the kids at this point so that's part of the draw?  Plenty of parents say they would never want to stay at home and are happy to go back to work to get a break from the chaos.  The money seems like a secondary consideration to that one.

SunnyDays

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2019, 10:40:19 AM »
How much is it worth to you to be able to raise your own kids instead of having strangers do it?  Yeah, I hate day cares, having been associated with them for many years.  You can't tell me the kids are happy either!

mm1970

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2019, 11:26:44 AM »
How much is it worth to you to be able to raise your own kids instead of having strangers do it?  Yeah, I hate day cares, having been associated with them for many years.  You can't tell me the kids are happy either!

News flash: daycares don't raise children, parents raise children.  That is the most ridiculously stupid and asinine comment ever.  They aren't strangers.

"Associated with daycares" what does that even mean??  You chose poorly.

mm1970

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 11:31:23 AM »
I don't think this is a financial decision so much as a lifestyle one.  Is the extra $12k/yr in investments worth spending less time with your 4 kids?  Or do you need a break from the kids at this point so that's part of the draw?  Plenty of parents say they would never want to stay at home and are happy to go back to work to get a break from the chaos.  The money seems like a secondary consideration to that one.
I was going to second this, before I got distracted.

It's less about money, and more about lifestyle.  I enjoyed a few years of part time work when my children were young.  Full time work (esp >40 hours) is hard when the children are young, simply because those are very labor intensive years.  (My kids are well into school now, and it's still super duper exhausting when my husband travels).

If you went back to work, then you'd likely be looking at more $$ out in the form of outsourcing things like cleaning and food (unless you are superwoman married to superman and do ALL THE THINGS).

I've been FT since my youngest was a year old, but we outsourced cleaning.  Work is fulfilling to me, and it has definitely been worth it. However, if I had been paying a lot more in childcare back then (my kids are 6 yrs apart), I may have made a different decision.

You are young enough to weather it (I was 42 when my second was born), but picture the family lifestyle.

Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 12:19:11 PM »
I don't think this is a financial decision so much as a lifestyle one.  Is the extra $12k/yr in investments worth spending less time with your 4 kids?  Or do you need a break from the kids at this point so that's part of the draw?  Plenty of parents say they would never want to stay at home and are happy to go back to work to get a break from the chaos.  The money seems like a secondary consideration to that one.
I was going to second this, before I got distracted.

It's less about money, and more about lifestyle.  I enjoyed a few years of part time work when my children were young.  Full time work (esp >40 hours) is hard when the children are young, simply because those are very labor intensive years.  (My kids are well into school now, and it's still super duper exhausting when my husband travels).

If you went back to work, then you'd likely be looking at more $$ out in the form of outsourcing things like cleaning and food (unless you are superwoman married to superman and do ALL THE THINGS).

I've been FT since my youngest was a year old, but we outsourced cleaning.  Work is fulfilling to me, and it has definitely been worth it. However, if I had been paying a lot more in childcare back then (my kids are 6 yrs apart), I may have made a different decision.

You are young enough to weather it (I was 42 when my second was born), but picture the family lifestyle.

You are hitting it on the money, I think. I actually have no issue with quality childcare (which is why I say 24k would go out for that... most of it would be aftercare for two kids, plus daycare for the baby, but all my kids loved their experiences in childcare). My bigger issue is that I think, at 2 years as a PT employee, I am missing the work I used to do, and Iím starting to notice when good opportunities show their faces. I think that your observation is spot on that it would be easier to wait until everyone is in school (and the honest truth is that my PT job right now is badass, and wonít look bad on a future resume, so that isnít a concern). So itís a question of timing, and I guess that right now , the time may not be right, but that doesnít mean something new wonít show itself in the next few years.

All this to say, thanks for the insight.

jlcnuke

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 12:46:01 PM »
Financially, this is a no-brainer, go back to work. Keep expenses low and your family could reach FI in fairly short order. Additionally, it alleviates a lot of the stress of "what happens if high-earning spouse loses their job" since there will be a second substantial income already coming into the household.

However, these things are almost never purely a financial decision, so you have to decide if the money, getting back to full-time work, etc is worth the trade-offs required such as spending less time with the family.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 02:44:19 PM »
Financially, this is a no-brainer, go back to work. Keep expenses low and your family could reach FI in fairly short order. Additionally, it alleviates a lot of the stress of "what happens if high-earning spouse loses their job" since there will be a second substantial income already coming into the household.

However, these things are almost never purely a financial decision, so you have to decide if the money, getting back to full-time work, etc is worth the trade-offs required such as spending less time with the family.
Do you really think the extra $7.74/hour (before taxes) is worth it financially, especially considering OP's husband already makes literally ten times that much?

Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 02:51:06 PM »
Additionally, it alleviates a lot of the stress of "what happens if high-earning spouse loses their job" since there will be a second substantial income already coming into the household.


OP here. As mentioned above, my spouse is a tenured professor. He would have to do something truly crazy to lose his job.

KBCB

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 04:40:17 PM »
I have went through a different but possibly relevant situation recently. I think it's a choice that is based of what you think you should do vs what you want to do. The additional money and perks seems too good to turn down, but taking personal life and family obligations into account the water gets murky. You should sit down and write down a list of what your goals are and where you might see yourself in 5 years 10 years and see if the new job fits into your goals or not. Sometimes new opportunities cloud our judgment with all the new perks, but in the end its about what you want to do and be in the future. I am not telling you to turn down the job (it might seem that way) I am challenging you to make a future plan.

In my situation I chose work life balance because my life currently needs it. In 5 years I might make a different choice.

jlcnuke

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2019, 05:41:16 PM »
Financially, this is a no-brainer, go back to work. Keep expenses low and your family could reach FI in fairly short order. Additionally, it alleviates a lot of the stress of "what happens if high-earning spouse loses their job" since there will be a second substantial income already coming into the household.

However, these things are almost never purely a financial decision, so you have to decide if the money, getting back to full-time work, etc is worth the trade-offs required such as spending less time with the family.
Do you really think the extra $7.74/hour (before taxes) is worth it financially, especially considering OP's husband already makes literally ten times that much?

Are you in the camp of people that thinks less money is better than more money financially? Because in my book, from a purely financial standpoint, more money is pretty much always better than less money.

Also, while a tenured professor has pretty decent job security, it isn't 100% guaranteed and it is far from guaranteed that the environment will always be one they wish to work in. So I still think that having additional significant income is a benefit for a household even if one is has tenure somewhere.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2019, 07:55:56 AM »
Financially, this is a no-brainer, go back to work. Keep expenses low and your family could reach FI in fairly short order. Additionally, it alleviates a lot of the stress of "what happens if high-earning spouse loses their job" since there will be a second substantial income already coming into the household.

However, these things are almost never purely a financial decision, so you have to decide if the money, getting back to full-time work, etc is worth the trade-offs required such as spending less time with the family.
Do you really think the extra $7.74/hour (before taxes) is worth it financially, especially considering OP's husband already makes literally ten times that much?

Are you in the camp of people that thinks less money is better than more money financially? Because in my book, from a purely financial standpoint, more money is pretty much always better than less money.

Also, while a tenured professor has pretty decent job security, it isn't 100% guaranteed and it is far from guaranteed that the environment will always be one they wish to work in. So I still think that having additional significant income is a benefit for a household even if one is has tenure somewhere.
Oh, I have no objection to having more money, if that's all there is to it.  It's the opportunity costs, combined with the very marginal increase in income, which make this less attractive IMO.  Having time with the kids, and being there when they get home from school, is a humongous benefit.  Working full time means there'll be less time (and energy! especially with kids!) for all the stuff that needs to happen around the house--cooking, cleaning, budgeting, packing lunches, all the administrative stuff like doctors' appointments, errands, all the school-related stuff, etc.  Now, if you're able to manage all of that in the few waking hours you have when not at work, on top of holding down a full-time job, and you're not getting stressed out or burned out or worn out, then ...well, kudos to you, because you are amazing!

In my experience (sample size: 1), having my wife at home is a huge net blessing for our family, far greater than the incremental income she could add.

Rdy2Fire

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2019, 08:04:41 AM »
Late to the game here, I have no kids, not married and I say NO WAY!!

Stay at home with your kids, there is always time to make more money PERIOD!!!

And if god forbid your time runs out before you get to FI then the time with your kids was worth more then you could have ever made in a lifetime anyway.

mistymoney

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2019, 08:22:47 AM »
I'm not seeing an upside with 4 young children in the mix.

Cranky

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2019, 08:52:07 AM »
4 kids takes a lot of time, and trust me - they do not become less time consuming as they get older, not for a long, long while. Plus, being a full-time pastor seems like a job with a lot of stress and responsibility, and something that's likely to come home with you.

For me, it wouldn't be worth it.

Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2019, 09:01:16 AM »
Oh, I have no objection to having more money, if that's all there is to it.  It's the opportunity costs, combined with the very marginal increase in income, which make this less attractive IMO.  Having time with the kids, and being there when they get home from school, is a humongous benefit.  Working full time means there'll be less time (and energy! especially with kids!) for all the stuff that needs to happen around the house--cooking, cleaning, budgeting, packing lunches, all the administrative stuff like doctors' appointments, errands, all the school-related stuff, etc.  Now, if you're able to manage all of that in the few waking hours you have when not at work, on top of holding down a full-time job, and you're not getting stressed out or burned out or worn out, then ...well, kudos to you, because you are amazing!

In my experience (sample size: 1), having my wife at home is a huge net blessing for our family, far greater than the incremental income she could add.

Thanks for this perspective.  FWIW I have an awesome spouse who supports whatever I decide, and Iím lucky that my (very PT) job looks good on paper right now so I donít have to explain a long absence from the job market, which would make me much less employable down the line (churches are just like the business world in this regard.).

Mostly I know that Iím not good to myself or family if I stay home permanently, and my job is a passion for me. I donít love the lack of opportunities to lead in my current position, but it fits my current moment well. All this to say, I think Iím going to pull my name from consideration for this job. It would be perfect for me... in three years.

Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2019, 09:02:14 AM »
I'm not seeing an upside with 4 young children in the mix.

Upsides:
1)there isnít a more kid friendly workplace than the one I would be going back to.
2) flexible hours
3) excellent benefits


Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2019, 09:04:36 AM »
4 kids takes a lot of time, and trust me - they do not become less time consuming as they get older, not for a long, long while. Plus, being a full-time pastor seems like a job with a lot of stress and responsibility, and something that's likely to come home with you.

For me, it wouldn't be worth it.

I hear you. Iím really good with boundaries, so Iím less worried about the work life balance in terms of responsibilities coming home. Mostly I want to get back into my chosen profession before I get penalized for being out. That dance is a tricky one, and there just arenít enough social and cultural supports for staying home to do so without penalty in the us right now. I hope a better system is in place for my children someday.

SunnyDays

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2019, 02:18:55 PM »
How much is it worth to you to be able to raise your own kids instead of having strangers do it?  Yeah, I hate day cares, having been associated with them for many years.  You can't tell me the kids are happy either!

News flash: daycares don't raise children, parents raise children.  That is the most ridiculously stupid and asinine comment ever.  They aren't strangers.

"Associated with daycares" what does that even mean??  You chose poorly.

Really?  When kids are in full-time daycare (6/7/8 AM until 5/6 PM) from infancy until school-age, who is honestly raising them?  In Canada, parents generally get a full year off at 70% salary, so can stay home with their children if they choose, but you'd be surprised at how many go back to work early because they can't hack it.  And yes, unless the providers are family or friends, then they are strangers.  You and your child may get to know them over time, but ultimately, they are paid employees and acquaintances.  Sorry if that offends you.
I was deliberately vague in my "association" with centres, but I spent many years in many centres, observing and giving
recommendations to staff.  On the surface, they all (well, most) looked great, fun, friendly, etc.  But I saw lots of thing that gave me pause.  First of all, at best, ratios were 1 staff for 4 infants (under 2) and 1 staff to 8 kids over 2, with the days desgined to be manageable for staff and not necessarily in the best interest of each child.  And heaven help you if you had a special needs child.  Sure, they usually had a 1:1 staff with them, but that staff was almost always the least trained person in the centre.  Because the others had seniority and didn't want to have to work that hard.  Then, I would have staff tell me things that were a little too honest - "I thought I loved the kids like my own, but then I had one and realized I didn't."  That's verbatim.  And "If the child takes their first steps here, we don't tell the parents."  Makes them feel bad.  There's also the staff turn-over.  These women (mostly) are paid barely above minimum wage, the director only a few dollars above.  They're young for the most part and often move on to higher paid jobs or stay at home to raise their own kids.  So your child is often bonding with a changing cast of staff.
Unless the home is a worse option than day care, or the parents can't put food on the table if they don't work, kids are always better off at home.  Send them to day care or pre-school a day a week for socialization?  Sure, good idea.  Full time? No, in my opinion.  So in Op's situation, where neither of those things are a factor, I would say stay home!

jlcnuke

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2019, 02:50:21 PM »
Financially, this is a no-brainer, go back to work. Keep expenses low and your family could reach FI in fairly short order. Additionally, it alleviates a lot of the stress of "what happens if high-earning spouse loses their job" since there will be a second substantial income already coming into the household.

However, these things are almost never purely a financial decision, so you have to decide if the money, getting back to full-time work, etc is worth the trade-offs required such as spending less time with the family.
Do you really think the extra $7.74/hour (before taxes) is worth it financially, especially considering OP's husband already makes literally ten times that much?

Are you in the camp of people that thinks less money is better than more money financially? Because in my book, from a purely financial standpoint, more money is pretty much always better than less money.

Also, while a tenured professor has pretty decent job security, it isn't 100% guaranteed and it is far from guaranteed that the environment will always be one they wish to work in. So I still think that having additional significant income is a benefit for a household even if one is has tenure somewhere.
Oh, I have no objection to having more money, if that's all there is to it.  It's the opportunity costs, combined with the very marginal increase in income, which make this less attractive IMO.  Having time with the kids, and being there when they get home from school, is a humongous benefit.  Working full time means there'll be less time (and energy! especially with kids!) for all the stuff that needs to happen around the house--cooking, cleaning, budgeting, packing lunches, all the administrative stuff like doctors' appointments, errands, all the school-related stuff, etc.  Now, if you're able to manage all of that in the few waking hours you have when not at work, on top of holding down a full-time job, and you're not getting stressed out or burned out or worn out, then ...well, kudos to you, because you are amazing!

In my experience (sample size: 1), having my wife at home is a huge net blessing for our family, far greater than the incremental income she could add.

So, to summarize, financially it's still a no brainer but there are non-financial things that can be considered as well?? Sounds like you're agreeing with my initial post completely, especially when you read the whole thing and see that I specifically called out that it's not all about finances and other things can make you decide to not take the more financially beneficial choice.

mm1970

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2019, 11:39:41 AM »
How much is it worth to you to be able to raise your own kids instead of having strangers do it?  Yeah, I hate day cares, having been associated with them for many years.  You can't tell me the kids are happy either!

News flash: daycares don't raise children, parents raise children.  That is the most ridiculously stupid and asinine comment ever.  They aren't strangers.

"Associated with daycares" what does that even mean??  You chose poorly.

Really?  When kids are in full-time daycare (6/7/8 AM until 5/6 PM) from infancy until school-age, who is honestly raising them?  In Canada, parents generally get a full year off at 70% salary, so can stay home with their children if they choose, but you'd be surprised at how many go back to work early because they can't hack it.  And yes, unless the providers are family or friends, then they are strangers.  You and your child may get to know them over time, but ultimately, they are paid employees and acquaintances.  Sorry if that offends you.
I was deliberately vague in my "association" with centres, but I spent many years in many centres, observing and giving
recommendations to staff.  On the surface, they all (well, most) looked great, fun, friendly, etc.  But I saw lots of thing that gave me pause.  First of all, at best, ratios were 1 staff for 4 infants (under 2) and 1 staff to 8 kids over 2, with the days desgined to be manageable for staff and not necessarily in the best interest of each child.  And heaven help you if you had a special needs child.  Sure, they usually had a 1:1 staff with them, but that staff was almost always the least trained person in the centre.  Because the others had seniority and didn't want to have to work that hard.  Then, I would have staff tell me things that were a little too honest - "I thought I loved the kids like my own, but then I had one and realized I didn't."  That's verbatim.  And "If the child takes their first steps here, we don't tell the parents."  Makes them feel bad.  There's also the staff turn-over.  These women (mostly) are paid barely above minimum wage, the director only a few dollars above.  They're young for the most part and often move on to higher paid jobs or stay at home to raise their own kids.  So your child is often bonding with a changing cast of staff.
Unless the home is a worse option than day care, or the parents can't put food on the table if they don't work, kids are always better off at home.  Send them to day care or pre-school a day a week for socialization?  Sure, good idea.  Full time? No, in my opinion.  So in Op's situation, where neither of those things are a factor, I would say stay home!
1.  Where I am, very few children are in care for those hours.  Centers are not even OPEN those hours.  The longest hours you will ever find is 7:30 am to 5:30 pm and there is only a single center in the area that I am in (two towns, approx 200,000 people) that is open those hours.  The average # of hours that a typical child is in childcare is 30-32 hours a week.

2.  Both of my children were in licensed home childcares with only 1 to 2 caregivers.  No, they were not strangers (with my second child, our caregiver was literally one of my best friends!)  She makes far more than minimum wage. (Approx $85-100k per year, depending on enrollment.)  Even when my children moved on to preschool (aged 3.5-4), they were in licensed centers where the teachers were paid far more than minimum wage and had health insurance (not a given in the US).

(None of these things are cheap, by the way.)

3.  I have several friends whose children went to "other" centers.  It could just be our local area, but many of the larger centers have very little turnover, and in fact the caregivers move "up" with the classes until they head off to kindergarten, then start over with infants.  (Within reason, as obviously the infant ratios are smaller).

Your experience is not all encompassing, you realize that yes?

honeybbq

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2019, 12:35:53 PM »
How much is it worth to you to be able to raise your own kids instead of having strangers do it?  Yeah, I hate day cares, having been associated with them for many years.  You can't tell me the kids are happy either!

**insert world's biggest eye roll here***

Cassie

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2019, 02:01:02 PM »
I would definitely wait until the baby was 4 or 5. I had 3 kids and they are a lot of work. I don't think it would be worth the stress. But I totally understand wanting to get back into the work force because I was ready too by the time my youngest was 5.  Locally daycare is expensive, but the wages are low and the turnover high. I am sure it varies by location.  It's great that you have the part time job for your resume because then you won't have the gap that I had.

startingsmall

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2019, 06:10:44 PM »
Jealous!! I don't think you can lose with either one of those options... my husband is a FT solo pastor who only makes $40k combined for salary + housing (roughly $20k less than what our denomination standards recommend), so either of those jobs sounds great, depending on what you're looking for!

Are they both church jobs, or other ministries?

Goldielocks

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2019, 06:37:03 PM »

 In Canada, parents generally get a full year off at 70% salary, so can stay home with their children if they choose, but you'd be surprised at how many go back to work early because they can't hack it. 

Wow, SunnyDays, you have a very strongly worded opinion  on a parent staying home with kids that I won't address in this thread.

But the above comment is wrong.   
The max EI is closer to 55% of salary, .. it caps out at $28k over 50+ weeks -- but if you have your kid on Jan 1st.   If you work part year at a high(er) salary, e.g start mat leave in September, then there are over contributions to repay at tax time.  Most private employers do not top up EI parental leave like the government employees get.

I went back to work "early" - after 4 months for one, and 7 months for the second, because we could not afford the loss of income... (and because DH wanted a few weeks, too).  Not because I could not hack it.   I wasn't  unusual.

Goldielocks

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2019, 06:44:31 PM »
OP, it sounds like you are a PT or "second position" pastor right now.   So, in evaluating this, I would look to see how many staff are employed at the church with the offer.   

My church has one FT pastor (making closer to what your DH makes), and 1 part time admin, a contract janitor, and a contract musician.  That's it.  Everything else is volunteer.  Vacation coverage is often lay services.

This means that if there is an evening call for hospital visit, or funeral services, that the Pastor is called out to deal with highly emotional situations at all hours... creating a constant feeling of not being able to detach.   In response, we provide extremely flexible hours so that she works only 9-3pm each day, has Friday / Sat off, and only a 1/2 day on Sunday.  And she works from home one day a week.  (Okay, I am a bit side eye at the minimal hours she puts in for the pay).  But still, we know that mentally she is "on call" at all times.  For very stressed out people at emotional points in their lives.

The other thing, is that as the only employee, she is also like a VP or COO of a business -- having to propose and implement all the programs, engage people, deal with conflict, tend to spiritual needs, etc... with no one to off load most of the extra work (or work that is not in her preferred skill set) to.

She came from a position as a 2nd pastor and as a single mom, found it very stressful to transition.  You have tons of support with a spouse, but it is something to consider.   I definitely think it is an ideal role when you have kids, for the flexibility and the generous pension and benefits.

I would 100% take the position for a year, and evaluate it.     But go in with eyes wide open.

Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2019, 09:12:23 PM »
I would definitely wait until the baby was 4 or 5. I had 3 kids and they are a lot of work. I don't think it would be worth the stress. But I totally understand wanting to get back into the work force because I was ready too by the time my youngest was 5.  Locally daycare is expensive, but the wages are low and the turnover high. I am sure it varies by location.  It's great that you have the part time job for your resume because then you won't have the gap that I had.

It is like you are in my mind. This is exactly where I am.

Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2019, 09:13:37 PM »
Jealous!! I don't think you can lose with either one of those options... my husband is a FT solo pastor who only makes $40k combined for salary + housing (roughly $20k less than what our denomination standards recommend), so either of those jobs sounds great, depending on what you're looking for!

Are they both church jobs, or other ministries?

They are both pastoral positions, yes. I feel fortunate.

Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2019, 09:24:30 PM »
OP, it sounds like you are a PT or "second position" pastor right now.   So, in evaluating this, I would look to see how many staff are employed at the church with the offer.   

My church has one FT pastor (making closer to what your DH makes), and 1 part time admin, a contract janitor, and a contract musician.  That's it.  Everything else is volunteer.  Vacation coverage is often lay services.

This means that if there is an evening call for hospital visit, or funeral services, that the Pastor is called out to deal with highly emotional situations at all hours... creating a constant feeling of not being able to detach.   In response, we provide extremely flexible hours so that she works only 9-3pm each day, has Friday / Sat off, and only a 1/2 day on Sunday.  And she works from home one day a week.  (Okay, I am a bit side eye at the minimal hours she puts in for the pay).  But still, we know that mentally she is "on call" at all times.  For very stressed out people at emotional points in their lives.

The other thing, is that as the only employee, she is also like a VP or COO of a business -- having to propose and implement all the programs, engage people, deal with conflict, tend to spiritual needs, etc... with no one to off load most of the extra work (or work that is not in her preferred skill set) to.

She came from a position as a 2nd pastor and as a single mom, found it very stressful to transition.  You have tons of support with a spouse, but it is something to consider.   I definitely think it is an ideal role when you have kids, for the flexibility and the generous pension and benefits.

I would 100% take the position for a year, and evaluate it.     But go in with eyes wide open.

Thanks, yes I have served as a FT solo pastor before, and in fact that is more representative of my work history than this short stint at PT, so I am familiar with the expectations.

With regard to taking it for a year, that isnít really an option, as that would be incredibly hard on the church calling me. I would want to make an internal commitment to stay at least 5 years. Which is why I am trying to decide if now is the time to step up to FT work again, or whether I ought to wait another year.

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2019, 11:12:19 PM »
I think that it is fair to take the role, intending to commit to 5 years, as long as it is working for your family, and all are safe and sane, and well with it.   If you realize it is not working, you give 6 month notice that you need to go back to FT family commitment for a few years.

e.g., don't leave the role to go to another calling after only a year or two, and especially not if you are getting relocation or a hiring bonus of some sort (that is not likely from your description, though).

Leaving to take care of family is different than leaving for another employment or to go back to school.

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2019, 03:15:56 AM »
OP, did you check what it would cost to take an au pair in your home? With 4 children this may be much cheaper than childcare. Or just hiring someone who doesn't live with you to privately take care of your children in your home?

I personally think that full time work is stressful enough as it is, even without having 4 children, so I would choose not to do it if I didn't have to.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2019, 09:54:34 PM »
I don't think this is a financial decision so much as a lifestyle one.  Is the extra $12k/yr in investments worth spending less time with your 4 kids?  Or do you need a break from the kids at this point so that's part of the draw?  Plenty of parents say they would never want to stay at home and are happy to go back to work to get a break from the chaos.  The money seems like a secondary consideration to that one.

This.  $24k after-tax is a lot of income for that gain...that's like 15k pre-tax (so less than 12k after-tax) to trade 30+hours/week away from your kids and increase your general/overall stress, as well as decrease your flexibility?  I know that's a trade that we wouldn't make. 

Laura33

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2019, 07:20:41 AM »
I'm not seeing an upside with 4 young children in the mix.

Upsides:
1)there isnít a more kid friendly workplace than the one I would be going back to.
2) flexible hours
3) excellent benefits

4) maintaining sanity

IMO 4 small kids is more of an incentive to take the job than to turn it down.  ;-)  But then that's why I stopped at 2.

Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2019, 05:23:14 AM »
I'm not seeing an upside with 4 young children in the mix.

Upsides:
1)there isnít a more kid friendly workplace than the one I would be going back to.
2) flexible hours
3) excellent benefits

4) maintaining sanity

IMO 4 small kids is more of an incentive to take the job than to turn it down.  ;-)  But then that's why I stopped at 2.

😁😁😁 itís like you know me.

Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2019, 05:24:07 AM »
OP, did you check what it would cost to take an au pair in your home? With 4 children this may be much cheaper than childcare. Or just hiring someone who doesn't live with you to privately take care of your children in your home?

I personally think that full time work is stressful enough as it is, even without having 4 children, so I would choose not to do it if I didn't have to.

We are looking into this currently. If I go back, this is the most likely childcare choice.

Mrsweisass

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2019, 05:26:04 AM »
I don't think this is a financial decision so much as a lifestyle one.  Is the extra $12k/yr in investments worth spending less time with your 4 kids?  Or do you need a break from the kids at this point so that's part of the draw?  Plenty of parents say they would never want to stay at home and are happy to go back to work to get a break from the chaos.  The money seems like a secondary consideration to that one.

This.  $24k after-tax is a lot of income for that gain...that's like 15k pre-tax (so less than 12k after-tax) to trade 30+hours/week away from your kids and increase your general/overall stress, as well as decrease your flexibility?  I know that's a trade that we wouldn't make.

I hear you. Itís hard for me because the cash is low, but it comes with family health care (so e wouldnít need to pay for my husbands coverage anymore), as well as paying into my pension, which I would like to have fully funded. Iím about halfway there right now, and itís a good pension.

mm1970

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Re: Would you go back to work?
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2019, 11:03:17 AM »
I'm not seeing an upside with 4 young children in the mix.

Upsides:
1)there isnít a more kid friendly workplace than the one I would be going back to.
2) flexible hours
3) excellent benefits

4) maintaining sanity

IMO 4 small kids is more of an incentive to take the job than to turn it down.  ;-)  But then that's why I stopped at 2.

😁😁😁 itís like you know me.
and me!