Poll

Would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?

Yes.
80 (43.5%)
No.
35 (19%)
Break Up - Yes, Divorce - No.
55 (29.9%)
Other
14 (7.6%)

Total Members Voted: 175

Author Topic: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?  (Read 21538 times)

ichangedmyname

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Like if you can't agree on the same things financially and it feels like all you do is butt heads.

As suggested I am modifying this first post with this reply:
It's not the lack of money, it's the money that is already gone. We cannot discuss money without him throwing in my face that for 2.5 years he spent all his money from student loans living large with me in a different country and when it was time to go back to the US, he gave away everything we had to my family. First off, I was the one who said we needed a budget back then, that we needed savings. But he didn't care. He blew all the money away. I wasn't earning the money so I let him do what he wanted with HIS money. And now we're here in the US and I'm working my butt off and he's earning $30 a day if that, he wants to buy a house so his mother can have a good retirement. Yes, his mother will pay for a third of the house and we can all live together in retirement. Everything I say that is questioning this plan of his is being turned around into "why are you so selfish? I want my mother to live comfortably. You make sure your parents are comfortable, etc" First off, my parents did that by working and now they are living off their pension.

Argh. I hate talking to him about it because everything I say is being turned into something else. I cannot win with this guy. I am being bullied into making a decision that is better for his mother,not for us, not for OUR betterment but for his mother.

********I don't think I can divorce my husband. What about you and your SO?**********
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 10:15:21 AM by ichangedmyname »

dragoncar

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Yes.  If you can't see ever getting on the same page, life would only become more miserable.  Huge driver of divorce in this country.

ichangedmyname

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I wonder how long it would take to save up 37k so I can pay him back for everything he's spent on me.

dragoncar

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Don't despair at this time of night.  Are you sure you won't be able to compromise?

homehandymum

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Hmmm.  Different people have different thresholds for ending a relationship.

I guess for myself, I'd be giving it serious thought if the financial arguments were constant, and/or mean/disrespectful/scornful.  In which case they're more of a symptom of an underlying problem than the problem itself - power/control issues, disrespect issues, etc.

For two people for whom the relationship is a high priority, and they have respect for each other, then some resolution should be possible - even if it requires a counselor to see the way through.  The most obvious resolution would be to separate finances - either 50/50 from the present going forward, or by income, or whatever seems fair to both persons (and/or a mediator if necessary).

Edited to add: reading the posts that appeared while I was typing this, it sounds like you need a hug and a long cup of coffee with a friend.  Make sure you take care of yourself, and do seriously look into counseling. xo

shuffler

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I did think about it.

Not long after we were married, my wife had a mental health issue, and would at times spend multiple thousands of dollars a day on shopping, well more than $10k/month.  The bills were a surprise.  We took out a home equity line of credit to consolidate and manage the rates on the debt.  We refinanced the primary mortgage to get a lower monthly payment so that we had more cash monthly to address the debt.  Counseling for all parties, etc.

Mustachians are by-definition focused on financial concerns.  At the time of our crisis I desperately wanted to help my wife, but my efforts expressed themselves financially.  I was concerned that if I lost my job then we'd be broke.  So in order to ensure that I could provide for her I talked to her about budgets and emergency-funds, and all other sorts of stuff that was greek to her.  I thought that having these plans would be as comforting to her as it was to me, but it probably only increased her stress.  Eventually what actually improved things was the therapy, and the walking and talking at the dog park, and establishing a track-record for sticking together through the ups and downs.
 
Yes, the thought of separation certainly crossed my mind at the time, but there was enough love in the relationship (and room in the credit limit) to make bearing the stress worthwhile.

5+ years later, things are much better.  She does still use money as a coping tool, but it's budgeted, and she even builds up her own emergency-fund at rate of about 15% of her budget.  I'm very proud of her.  And she has faith in the relationship b/c we stayed together and worked it out.

[This is getting too long.  I promise to wrap it up.]

"But Shuffler," I hear you say, "most people's spouses aren't crazy-pants, so your situation doesn't really apply in general."

Well, maybe.  But what I learned was that my good faith Mustachian elevation of the financial issues to being of primary importance was harmful to the relationship.  The financial issues were real, and did have to be addressed in time, but right then it was more important for us establish emotional support, have "us" time, regulate my work schedule, etc.  Once those things were done, and we had a better (non-financial) grounding, it was much easier to work out a savings plan later.  So try to be balanced, and try to be self-aware of the trap of Mustachian myopia.

... all of which is a too-wordy agreement with Mum's "symptoms of an underlying problem rather than the problem itself".
... and a +1 to counseling.

Take care.  Good luck.

MissStache

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I just broke up with my boyfriend of 4 years.  Certainly not the same thing as divorce, especially since our finances were totally separate, but we lived together, had pets together, pretty much everything BUT the finances.  Thank god there were no kids in the picture.

It was definitely not ONLY the financial incompatibility, but his lack of care and refusal to try to manage his money showed some of his faults in a way I probably wouldn't have seen as easily were it not framed around money.  If it was just that, but we still had all the other things that made a relationship good, I would have tried a lot harder to make it work.  As it was, there were plenty of other problems that made a future unrealistic, regardless of his spending habits.

kt

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i wouldn't either. for me marriage is it, a team through the good and bad whatever they may be. and i know that is easy to say and harder to live by but i think you have to have that core belief in marriage to stick it out over the long term. my parents have been through bankruptcy, living off a single part-time income with 3 kids under 8 in london and they've come through. they were never on different pages but it can't have been easy.
however, amongst all that you need to take care of yourself. talking and counselling sound like a good plan. plus i'd make an extra effort with your friends so you have that outside support and to help you feel better.

rocksinmyhead

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hmm... I think for me it would kind of depend on whether or not that were really the ONLY issue. if the relationship is otherwise very good (mutual respect, can work through differences, etc.) then I feel like there's hope for the future. if, like MissStache described, the financial issues are symptomatic of other, larger issues... then I would think more about leaving. but I, too, would go to counseling first (assuming the other person would go).

arebelspy

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Added poll.  Wasn't quite sure on the options, so I winged it.

I would break up with someone I was dating, sure, over money issues.  That's a big compatibility thing, IMO (as much as being on the same page about, say, having kids).

I wouldn't divorce over it, no.
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ichangedmyname

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 08:50:52 AM »
It's not the lack of money, it's the money that is already gone. We cannot discuss money without him throwing in my face that for 2.5 years he spent all his money from student loans living large with me in a different country and when it was time to go back to the US, he gave away everything we had to my family. First off, I was the one who said we needed a budget back then, that we needed savings. But he didn't care. He blew all the money away. I wasn't earning the money so I let him do what he wanted with HIS money. And now we're here in the US and I'm working my butt off and he's earning $30 a day if that, he wants to buy a house so his mother can have a good retirement. Yes, his mother will pay for a third of the house and we can all live together in retirement. Everything I say that is questioning this plan of his is being turned around into "why are you so selfish? I want my mother to live comfortably. You make sure your parents are comfortable, etc" First off, my parents did that by working and now they are living off their pension.

Argh. I hate talking to him about it because everything I say is being turned into something else. I cannot win with this guy. I am being bullied into making a decision that is better for his mother,not for us, not for OUR betterment but for his mother.

KMMK

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 08:52:33 AM »
It would have to be a really extreme situation but yes I'd consider divorce. But that's why we do separate finances- so we aren't particularly affected by the others money decisions.

Spork

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 08:53:04 AM »
I feel like there's not enough data here to say.  (And I'm not being nosy and asking for a dump of your personal life... just stating a fact.)

It would really depend on how far off we were.  If I was "ERE Jacob living off of some 12k a year"  and spouse was spending every penny I saved doing so... There would be serious problems.  If we had differences of opinion that only made a few years difference in FIRE date... I think we could find a compromise.  Those are probably extreme edge cases and you're most likely in the middle.... but there probably *is* a breaking point for me between where compromise is no longer possible.

That said: Often I think money problems in a couple are some other problem.  Money is sometimes just the place where it shows up.  If you can identify that underlying issue (if there is one) you might that the go/no-go question is more easily answered.

ichangedmyname

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2014, 08:53:37 AM »
Added poll.  Wasn't quite sure on the options, so I winged it.

I would break up with someone I was dating, sure, over money issues.  That's a big compatibility thing, IMO (as much as being on the same page about, say, having kids).

I wouldn't divorce over it, no.

It is a compatibility thing and how money is handled. My biggest mistake was not knowing how I would handle money at the time of marriage. I discovered Dave Ramsey months after I moved to the US already 2 years into the marriage. I discovered MMM just last year. Now this is how I want to handle money. But I'm the only one in this freaking household worrying about budgets and the only one with a savings account, etc. Yes, we live with his mother.

Samsam

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 08:56:05 AM »
ohh boy....parents living with me is a deal breaker.  I voted breakup but not divorce (b/c i wouldn't divorce per say over money)...but I, personally, would consider divorce if I had to live with my SO's mother...

Workinghard

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2014, 09:39:10 AM »
Uh-oh.  I might have  misunderstood the poll.  Are we talking about breaking up with someone we're dating, or breaking up/separating with a spouse versus divorcing a spouse?

I had no idea that my husband had debt until a year after we were married. He was single, no kids, had a car, a home, and a good job.  His home was modest. It never entered my mind that he had debt.  Talk about stupid. I told him that if I had known,  I probably would not have married him.  20+ years later, I love him more now than then. It took us almost 5 years to pay off his 40k debt and to save 60K. He has come a long ways.

I still remember the time he called me from Walmart. He said he had a basket full of stuff, looked at it, and realized it was nothing that he needed. He then spent over an hour returning everything to the proper shelves. I knew we were making progress!

He will never be as frugal as I am, but he helps balance me out. He's also humoring me regarding my retirement goal (for both of us) although he doesn't like me working as much as I do.

arebelspy

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2014, 10:15:30 AM »
Uh-oh.  I might have  misunderstood the poll.  Are we talking about breaking up with someone we're dating, or breaking up/separating with a spouse versus divorcing a spouse?

It was not necessarily clear in the OP, thus the 3rd option in the poll - that you would break up with someone (dating) but would not divorce a spouse.

You can change your answer (remove it and revote) if necessary.
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Elaine

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2014, 10:16:02 AM »
It's not the lack of money, it's the money that is already gone. We cannot discuss money without him throwing in my face that for 2.5 years he spent all his money from student loans living large with me in a different country and when it was time to go back to the US, he gave away everything we had to my family. First off, I was the one who said we needed a budget back then, that we needed savings. But he didn't care. He blew all the money away. I wasn't earning the money so I let him do what he wanted with HIS money. And now we're here in the US and I'm working my butt off and he's earning $30 a day if that, he wants to buy a house so his mother can have a good retirement. Yes, his mother will pay for a third of the house and we can all live together in retirement. Everything I say that is questioning this plan of his is being turned around into "why are you so selfish? I want my mother to live comfortably. You make sure your parents are comfortable, etc" First off, my parents did that by working and now they are living off their pension.

Argh. I hate talking to him about it because everything I say is being turned into something else. I cannot win with this guy. I am being bullied into making a decision that is better for his mother,not for us, not for OUR betterment but for his mother.

This is a much bigger problem than different spending priorities. I'd recommend updating your initial post with this, so you can get better feedback.

I'm going out on a limb here: he's (and possibly you?) from a culture where it's normal to financially support your aging parents, right? If so, a therapist from the same cultural background should be able to help you sort this out. It's a pretty common source of conflict, and it's hard to get people to be objective about something they've heard since childhood is a sacred obligation.

+1

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2014, 10:18:56 AM »
Yes, I would consider it, mostly because it would probably be a sign of other incompatibilities.

AJ

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2014, 10:31:18 AM »
Over just money? No, of course not. But money arguments are hardly ever actually about money. How you spend money reflects your values. So, would I break up with someone over different values? Yeah, maybe. Keeping money things a secret is a major communication problem. Would I break up with someone because they couldn't communicate well? Yes, and I have, and it was the best decision I ever made.

I don't think I would ever divorce over any of that though, but I hesitate to say 'never'. I would certainly go to many years of couples therapy before divorcing for any reason.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2014, 10:34:12 AM »
I might divorce if we weren't able to talk about the issue frankly and without screaming fights with my partner, but that would be because we were unable to have a reasonable conversation and I was putting my needs (or him putting his needs) ahead of the relationship as a whole - not because of the actual issue itself.

I think you could switch out any sort of conflict that people usually fight about (money/kids/religion) and if you're not able to sit down and discuss and actually listen to each other and see their point, then the relationship itself isn't as stable and good as it should be. They are supposed to be your life partner, and while no one is going to agree 100% of the time with their partner, you should be able to come to some sort of agreement or arrangement that works for both of you.

So I'd definitely recommend counseling as this sort of fighting is a sign that you both are not listening to each other's wants/needs. If both of you are willing to give a little, then you should be able to work it out with an impartial mediator (counselor). But you both have to be willing to work on compromise; that's important in any conflict.

I'm not saying that I don't agree with you, OP, about the fact that you are trying to budget and save and plan for the future, but he's not hearing that. He's hearing that you are trying to stop him from doing what he feels he needs to do for his mother and cut off his ability to have "fun" spending money. Since emotions are high every time you discuss, getting someone outside of your relationship would help to try to wade through the mess.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2014, 10:37:58 AM »
There's always two sides to a story. I think it's okay to disagree about money if you can talk it out in a civil manner. But if that can't be civil toward each other and you're not happy or ever think you'll be happy then cut your losses and divorce. Regarding the $30 dollars a day. If it's a temporary hiccup then don't judge. But if he's not working on improving that income then that's a problem.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2014, 10:49:25 AM »
Yes, I would consider it, mostly because it would probably be a sign of other incompatibilities.

I agree. When my ex and I separated, then divorced, an ongoing money issue was the straw that broke the camel's back. But there was a big list of other problems weighing down the relationship, too. If finances were the only issue, I think we could have worked it out, and I would still be happily married (and not happily single :-).

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2014, 10:51:45 AM »
I'm divorced and a big sticking point between us was money.  Our arguments were either about, or at least included, how I thought she spent too much money.  That being said, the eventual demise wasn't rooted in finances but I know that played a part in the decision making process.

Today, I have a wonderful and frugal GF.  Since finding this community, I would find it difficult to marry be with someone who is not on the same page financially. 

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2014, 11:09:02 AM »
It's hard for me to imagine my husband I ending up in a bad enough place financially that we'd start playing the blame game. But I probably would. This is a financial partnership - if my husband took pains to blame only me for our failures (something we mutually participated in), then I don't see how I could put aside the resentment that would build.

He would almost certainly divorce me if I moved my mother into our house.

payitoff

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2014, 11:17:26 AM »
do you own your house? how about you buy a house with a guesthouse or back house? maybe this will solve his concern for his mom and at the same time you guys will have the privacy as husband and wife. yes, it is not easy to live with the in laws., especially when there's problem to fix within marriage, mom sees the ugly and it will not help the marriage get to where its supposed to be.

so compromise with him on his plan, meet halfway, but make him understand that since he is now married, you are his priority and your future together so you can have a solid family when mom passes on.

Peony

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2014, 11:42:46 AM »
I don't think I could tolerate someone jeopardizing my future by making willfully bad financial decisions (refusing to work, for example) that affect us both.

My partner would be a wealthy man today if his ex-wife, who had a spending/shopping/hoarding problem ("crazypants" is not all that rare, @shuffler!), had not frittered away his income as well as significant windfalls that they received, and been unable or unwilling to work or even to drive a car (in their rural area). Instead, my partner is in his early 50s and just now beginning to get his act together. (The ex-wife dumped him for a guy with more money once my partner's was gone, and then died, leaving a HUGE financial and physical mess behind).

I don't want to combine our finances or get married because I don't yet trust his judgment, and honestly, I don't know if I ever will. How could a person let himself be taken into bankruptcy twice because of another person's spending issues? Where was his survival instinct? Weirdly, I'd trust him more if he'd divorced her lovingly (if that makes sense -- not to be mean to her, but just to stop the insanity) to protect himself and their son instead of letting her blow all of the boy's college money and compromise his own old age. On the positive side, my partner is not a spender and is pretty happy to be on the frugality train with me now. And that change is letting him make up some of the ground he lost during his marriage.

I'm not much of a romantic and would not feel compelled to honor a pledge to stick with someone who turns out to be harmful to me. On the other hand, I'd prefer not to make a pledge I'm not necessarily willing to keep, so I've chosen not to make our union a legal one.

I think sometimes a person has to look out for him- or herself even if a vow must be broken, and that doesn't necessarily make one a bad person. Context is important in these situations. I guess I would just try not to make a rash move in anger, but more with loving detachment. I see no particular virtue in allowing oneself to be dragged down.



« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 11:44:31 AM by Peony »

Zikoris

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2014, 12:02:41 PM »
Definitely. I'm getting close to ERE-Jacob level of extremeness, and there's just no way I could have a happy relationship with someone who wasn't on the same page.

That said, the best thing to do is heavily screen for bad financial habits the first few times you meet someone. People tend to open up a lot if you make it not about them, but about something you heard or read in the news - there are usually articles in the papers that start with "50% of people live paycheck to paycheck" or "The average person only has X saved for retirement".

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2014, 12:20:04 PM »
I don't have much advice for the OP outside of seek counseling, and no way in hell would I let either my MIL or my own mother live in our house unless it was absolutely the only option.

I voted yes but, as many others have noted, the problems would have to be pretty darn intractable - in which case, it's more than purely about money and also about respecting each other's wishes. I find myself compromising on frugality to please my DW at times but it's usually really small things and we always talk about it frankly and calmly.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2014, 12:25:58 PM »
I guess for myself, I'd be giving it serious thought if the financial arguments were constant, and/or mean/disrespectful/scornful.  In which case they're more of a symptom of an underlying problem than the problem itself - power/control issues, disrespect issues, etc.

+1

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2014, 12:35:22 PM »
I think the question phrasing might be a little vague. I would certainly break up with someone who was forcing me to spend my money on things I don't wish to do. This points to a deeper flaw in the relationship though, namely your SO not respecting your feelings/wishes, which is a pretty surefire sign of more problems down the road. Would I break up with someone who didn't share my mustachian views? Certainly not! Would I merge my finances with theirs? Certainly not! From what I gather, it seems like Jacob over at ERE has a set up where his gf continues to work while he is fully retired. This seems like a pretty reasonable way to do it. If we couldn't agree on a set-up along those lines, then again there may be more serious issues in the relationship.
I've never been married, but I imagine divorce is much more complicated, if for no other reason than splitting up the finances. While I understand the social implications of marriage, I'm surprised that people don't view it as more of a financial contract. But i'm sure thats a topic for another post :)

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2014, 12:55:07 PM »
I voted "other" because I'm with the folks above who say that they wouldn't call it off for ONLY financial issues. If that was a problem but my partner and I had mutual respect to evaluate and live with our differences successfully, then I don't think I would call it off.  Although financial problems were definitely an issue with my ex, it wasn't THE issue.

That said, my current boyfriend has an affinity for gadgets but is pretty frugal otherwise. We aren't at a point yet where we need to have "The Talk," but I can say that in spite of being very compatible in other ways, financial habits would influence my decision about whether to move forward with a relationship (as opposed to ending one).

tipster350

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2014, 01:19:37 PM »
I want to make a point that rarely comes in up these types of discussions.

I see a lot of advice usually about separating finances. That can work in less severe situations, where there is a basic respect and the other person's habits are within a certain range.  But what happens in situations when, at retirement, the other spouse hasn't saved up and now they are your burden to bear for the rest of their life. At some point the spouse will be too old/not have the option to work. All the years of YOUR sacrifice while they have been irresponsible and indulging their whims...and then you will be paying for both of you.

I divorced over this issue, and like others have mentioned the money issue was an overlay to deeper issues of lack of respect, different values, etc. It is rare for two partners to be exactly alike in their approach to money and decisionmaking, but committed spouses work with each other, bend a little here and there, and come up with solutions that are not severely damaging to the marriage or finances. I consider someone making willfully selfish and damaging unilateral financial decisions against the best interest of the marriage and financial future as a form of infidelity.

In any case I wasn't going to let my spouse drag me down with him. I tried everything to save the marriage but ultimately the choice became saving myself or going down with him, even with separate finances.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2014, 01:34:13 PM »
I chose not to go through with marrying a guy who was horrible with money, it was just the tip of the iceberg, he was very irresponsible, I knew I wanted to have children and be a stay at home mom, if he couldn't be seen as a hard worker, frugal when needed to be, he wasn't the life partner for me.

I ended up marrying a great guy, who is a very hard worker and values me being home with our children, enough to say, if we couldn't afford it we would move to a place where we could afford it, it's that important to us both.

I hope you can work it out, but money is so often a "tip" of something bigger, like him not respecting you, or just bullying you into what he wants to do. I would suggest counseling, you both need to be heard and respected, and maybe you can get a house with his mom, just not right now?

CommonCents

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2014, 02:49:53 PM »
Just wanted to address the buying property aspect.

My aunt and her husband did this.  They bought a house and his mother moved in.  The arrangements (who owns, whose money, whose rules, etc.) weren't clear at the outset.  It's reportedly like WWWIII over there.  My cousin, an only child, refuses to visit without buffers, such as her husband's cousin along, who will talk up a storm.  EVERYONE is miserable.  Don't do it unless you really want to AND you've worked out EVERY detail, including who is going to putting meals on the table, who decides what those meals are, who pays for those meals, and who decides what time the meals are going down.  The grandma thought she was going to give some money and own the home too.  I think they agreed on some things, but then decided not to take her money, and maybe assumptions were made about whether all of those rules would change when they didn't take the money.  So they have problems like the grandma expects dinner made for her at 5pm (no matter what), exactly what she wants, and doesn't talk to the aunt.  At all.  God help them if my uncle dies first...

Wannabe Mustache

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2014, 04:23:17 PM »
I can really empathize with your situation.  I voted yes because I've been thinking about it for some time.  But I would agree that we have major communications problems and there are other underlying issues.  This thread has really helped me so thank you for starting it.  I don't think any of us can tell you what to do but hopefully the responses help you.  I'm reading a book (recommended to me by someone on this forum) called Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay but Mira Kirshenbaum which is helpful for me.   

Thegoblinchief

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2014, 04:26:27 PM »
Probably worth pointing out that "married with separate finances" is meaningless in marital property jurisdictions unless there's an ironclad prenup in place.

TacosForever

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2014, 04:51:03 PM »
Sadly, I think about divorce every day. I met my spouse during our more freewheeling days, when there was cash coming out of firehoses. Now that we're a one income couple and I've discovered MMM and consumption reduction, things are very different in my attitude towards life and money. He still wants to spend like it was 5 years ago despite me showing him in very black and white terms why we can't. As usual, money is just symptomatic of deeper problems - namely, I never fully understood how immature and selfish he was until the move/employment change. He literally pouts like a 4 year old when I say we can't afford something.

AJ

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2014, 05:20:45 PM »
Sadly, I think about divorce every day. I met my spouse during our more freewheeling days, when there was cash coming out of firehoses. Now that we're a one income couple and I've discovered MMM and consumption reduction, things are very different in my attitude towards life and money. He still wants to spend like it was 5 years ago despite me showing him in very black and white terms why we can't. As usual, money is just symptomatic of deeper problems - namely, I never fully understood how immature and selfish he was until the move/employment change. He literally pouts like a 4 year old when I say we can't afford something.

Wow. I've been in a very similar situation. It wasn't about money specifically, but it was about maturity levels. It was really rough. In the end, we had a heart to heart and I told him he needed to transition from teenager to full-fledged adult (in more nuanced terms, of course). He got quiet, then went for a drive. When he came home, he said he agreed (something about not wanting to be like his dad...) I don't know what we would have done if he hadn't. But we are proof that people can mature and change - he did a 180 and now participates as an equal adult partner in our life.  I wish I had some more solid advice to offer. If nothing else, fwiw, know that some stranger on the internet empathizes with your difficult position :(

Emg03063

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2014, 05:32:15 PM »
Votes yes.  I wouldn't divorce someone over basic financial incompatibility (hopefully this would have prevented me from getting married in the first place), but for financial infidelity, I would.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2014, 05:46:21 PM »
I went through Financial Peace University with my fiance and it really helped open up a dialog between us on the topic of money.  It is a great program for getting an SO involved in your finances.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2014, 06:06:18 PM »
As someone who has been married 10 years, I can say that I would divorce over money issues as they would most likely be a sign of bigger issues like lack of communication (or in your case it seems disrespect).  I would, however, make sure that I fought the good fight.  That would mean marriage counseling, and if my husband wouldn't agree a significant amount of individual counseling.  I would make sure that I worked hard at fixing things for a long time, all the while explaining the my husband that I was doing this work to prevent our divorce and that if he did not work at it as well that divorce was most likely going to happen.  I would get a written picture of the divorce (like asset splits, cost of lawyers, time line etc) with the help of a lawyer and present that to my DH once I felt like it was inevitable.  I would do everything I could think of to save the marriage, but walk away when I couldn't think of anything else to do. 

Good luck.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2014, 07:06:02 PM »
Probably worth pointing out that "married with separate finances" is meaningless in marital property jurisdictions unless there's an ironclad prenup in place.

I'm curious about this because laws are different here and I'm not familiar with divorce proceedings:
If you get divorced without a prenup in a community property state and both parties agree how to split the money lets say 45-55% can the judge force a different split - 50/50? Can you be legally forced to take more money than you feel you are entitled to? Or does this not happen because people can't agree and just want to screw each other? I just wonder how much power the court has when there isn't a prenup.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2014, 07:14:16 PM »
At many weddings I have been to, especially when the marrying couple is young, the minister/priest has made a point of emphasizing that "two become one" means that your spouse becomes your primary family, ahead of all your birth family.  This means the spouse has priority over the parents, grandparents, siblings, etc.  Where are your husband's priorities?  A parent can be cared for in many ways, not just the one your husband is proposing.  And since it would seem to be your money that will be involved, you should certainly have a say (and that say may be "NO").

There do seem to be more issues than just money - the constant blaming you for his poor money choices is worrisome.  As others have said, get counseling, by yourself if he won't agree.  You can at least get some perspective.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2014, 07:58:08 PM »
Probably worth pointing out that "married with separate finances" is meaningless in marital property jurisdictions unless there's an ironclad prenup in place.

I'm curious about this because laws are different here and I'm not familiar with divorce proceedings:
If you get divorced without a prenup in a community property state and both parties agree how to split the money lets say 45-55% can the judge force a different split - 50/50? Can you be legally forced to take more money than you feel you are entitled to? Or does this not happen because people can't agree and just want to screw each other? I just wonder how much power the court has when there isn't a prenup.

No, they don't force you to take money you don't want.  This stuff is only an issue when people are pissed.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2014, 08:23:14 PM »

I think you could switch out any sort of conflict that people usually fight about (money/kids/religion) and if you're not able to sit down and discuss and actually listen to each other and see their point, then the relationship itself isn't as stable and good as it should be. They are supposed to be your life partner, and while no one is going to agree 100% of the time with their partner, you should be able to come to some sort of agreement or arrangement that works for both of you.



Please divorce your husband and marry me! ;)

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2014, 07:39:56 AM »
If the SO can not change their spending habits and consistently spends a lot more than you can "afford to", then yes, breaking up is the best choice and do it ASAP. People have goals for themselves and MMM style frugal living is a pretty great goal. If your SO wants Coach bags, nice cars, jewelry and doesn't care about your goal of a frugal life and low bills, its over. In fact, it should have never started, but love is a strong potion.

I have this problem with my SO: even if its said, "I totally agree living frugally is great", actions such as buying bags and "putting aside" big portions of income to buy a nice car in the future also happen. Those things don't work together. At some point, you either accept that your SO is going to blow all your money and you better happily retire decades later, or you break up. Money is a real thing, once its gone you can't get it back by "reconnecting". Thats a person's life hours gone.

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2014, 07:49:59 AM »
Yes , But as others had said it would have to be over the top. If I couldn't come to a give an take that I got frustrated on or about everyday.

libertarian4321

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2014, 08:10:06 AM »
Not only would I consider it, I've done it.

Not with my current SO of 19 years, she and I are on the same page financially.

But I had a previous girl friend who was pushing for marriage, but I refused to do so until she got her financial house in order.  She was one of those folks who had a decent income, but was always spending more than she made.  She never changed, so I broke it off.  Glad I did, too, because the next gf was a big upgrade. :)  If I had stayed with girl #1, I'm sure I'd have been miserable.

ichangedmyname

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Re: would you consider divorcing/breaking up with your SO because of money?
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2014, 03:38:43 PM »
would you consider breaking up with your SO if his running from the law and you're supposed to give him an allowance every month on top of your own bills?


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