Would you buy this Prius if you were me?

[314159]

My fiancée and I are preparing for a slow cross country road trip starting in August. Our wedding is in June and will be honeymooning for most of July, so it is already time to think about buying a car. We currently don't have a car.

We plan to visit a couple of cities (Denver, Chicago, and some others TBD) for a couple weeks or months at a time, staying in short term rentals or housesitting. The idea is to try these places on for size in consideration for moving there medium/long term. We want to road trip in between them to see more of this vast country, and also, much as we enjoy being carfree here in San Francisco, it will be handy to have a car in the cities themselves, while we figure out how much we will want a car if we were to move there.

We want to be able to bring a good amount of stuff with us: not just clothes appropriate for varied weather, but also: some pots and pans, knives, spices, nonperishables, maybe a cooler, etc. We do not plan to sleep in the car or bring a bunch of camping gear. The stuff we're not bringing with us will go in a moving pod of the kind that the movers drop off at your place, you fill it with stuff, they take it away and put it in storage, and then when you know where you want to move, they move it to your new house. So we are not packing the car full of everything we own. Anyway, due to the amount we're packing, we would like a connected hatch / hatchback / 2-box body. We can fold the seats down of the second row to make room. I suspect a Prius C or Yaris will be too small but am willing to reconsider. Regular Prius would be a fine size, I bet.

Because we are not sure that we will want the car once we move to our new city, I am averse to buying a brand new car, even if it comes up as a wash against a used car. Ideally we'd spend no more than $10k, the less the better, but the number is pretty arbitrary: we could afford a new car if we wanted.

We rent a car every couple months to visit family or go on a weekend trip around here. We've sampled a few electric cars in that time (Bolt and Niro), and I even here in Northern California, one of the most electric-car friendly environments (both meteorological and regulatory), I find the charging process on public chargers just too annoying, slow, unpredictable to deal with full time. (Maybe the NACS will fix this one day.) So I am not looking at getting a new electric car, even with the federal tax rebate. And we have a Mustachian People Problem: our income exceeds the limits for the used electric/PHEV car tax rebate.

Better gas mileage is better, but we might only own this car for like 10,000 miles, so it's not a dealbreaker.

One further consideration is that we are not "car people", we don't care about "fun to drive", we don't know how to repair cars, and we don't and won't have a dedicated space for car repair. So, we're looking for something cheap, boring, reliable, and easy to get spare parts for. Fiancée strongly prefers starting with a clean title and not looking for any diamonds in the rough with salvage or rebuilt titles. My studies of MMM and the forums have led me to believe that we would ideally get something just over 100,000 miles on the odomoter, since used car prices take a dip after that milestone. Fiancée also likes the idea of having something no more than about 10 years old, and I don't disagree that would be nice.

So to summarize, the wishlist is:
- a hatchback (or something with a hatched back)
- one size up from the smallest possible 4 door
- gas (hybrids welcome)
- boring
- reliable
- used
- clean title
- probably 100k to 1?? miles (what should our upper limit be?), though less is better
- no more than 10? years old
- cheap.

As far as I can tell, the mainstream solutions to our needs are a Prius, Fit, or something like that. Happy to consider other options, but I think this is our starting point. Fiancée's dad pointed out the Versa or Impreza as other options.

So we go off to craiglist and enter our parameters (feel free to play along).

Tomorrow (now that I look at the clock, it's today, actually) we're scheduled to look at this 2014 Prius Two with 129k miles for $9800. That seems to be about the going rate for Priuses of this age and mileage around here. What do you think?

Meanwhile I also find crazy things like this 2017 Crosstrek with 73k miles for $300 less than the Prius above, because it has an error code that Googling tells me usually costs $200-$400 to repair. Am I stupid for not snapping that up, or would I be a sucker to consider it in the first place?

Hivemind, give me your wisdom!

[curious_george]

The Prius sounds nice to me.

If you are only planning on owning the car for 10,000 miles it's probably more important to consider what you're paying for the car and what you can sell the car for when you're done than anything else, financial wise.

I would probably look at Corolla or Camry as well, as Camrys especially are everywhere and can be bought for cheap.

[LD_TAndK]

Considering you might end up living somewhere car free, have you considered renting a car for your travels? At the hertz near me, month long rentals start at $850 for a ford focus hatchback and $950 for a medium sedan.

You certainly wouldn't go wrong buying a 100k mileage used prius if you do end up needing a car. I definitely wouldn't waste your money on the new less practical prius

[2Birds1Stone]

Damn, you're far away. A friend from Rochester is a mechanic/automotive tech teacher and just sold his personal Scion xB (bulletproof Toyota 2.4L engine, 5 speed manual) for $3,500 and it was cleaaaaaan. You can find something for <$10k for sure.

Carmax or the like might not be the worst idea when buying used because they warranty their used cars for a decent period and have locations all over the country. I would look into that as far as coverage/logistics of getting repairs done.

[bacchi]

Our 2014 Prius was totaled last year and the only thing wrong with it were the front bumper ends where we ran over curbs (it's a low car). We still trusted it for road trips.

You can always get a bluetooth OBD plug and use DrPrius to check the battery condition but, at that mileage and age, the battery is almost certainly fine.

[JAYSLOL]

Prius is an excellent choice, but you may also want to consider a Camry.  I know it’s not a hatchback, but have you seen the size of the trunk on a Camry?  You could fit a Honda Fit in it lol.  It would check all the other boxes you are looking for plus it would be a very comfortable highway cruiser, which I’m assuming is most of the miles you’d do on a road trip. You can also find hybrid Camrys if you are set on a hybrid option.  It’s probably what I would go with if I wasn’t planning to sleep in the car

[lhamo]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE my 2015 Ford CMax hybrid.  It has about 63k miles on it and have driven it from Seattle to CO and back twice with no issues whatsoever.  Because I only drive 6-8k miles/year, I only have to have it serviced once a year.  You can pack a lot into the hatchback, and I am short enough (5'3") that I can sleep in it, though so far I've only done that once.  I get right around 39 mpg (used to be 40-41, but those two rocky mountain road trips with their 80 mph speed limits going up mountains dragged it down).

I was going to buy a Prius back in 2015 because my sister was on her second one and loved it, but I didn't love it when I test drove it, largely because as a short person I didn't feel I had good visability in it.  The minute I sat in the CMax I felt so comfortable -- the windscreen is really big and there are relatively few blind spots.  It felt like I was in a flight simulator at first.  It also was about 5k cheaper than the Prius at the time -- a 20% savings on a 20-25k car.

Sadly they don't make the CMax for the US market any more because it never was a great seller (Ford overestimated gas mileage in the first few years and that turned a lot of people off).  But you can still find them on the used market, and they still sell for less than a Prius. 

[314159]

Thanks for the advice so far, all!

Yes, it's important that the car have resale value. Hopefully if we sell it we can get a good price considering we're likely to end up somewhere snowy and can advertise the car as coming from the temperate, salt-free, snowless climes of Northern California.

Regarding renting: we've considering it but we're definitely going to have it at least 3 months. I'm finding monthly rentals for $900 with fiancée's corporate group code. So that makes at least $2700 which feels like too much.

I will take a look at CarMax inventory and prices.

We've considered a Camry (and Corolla) but the prices seem basically the same as Prius prices around here, and all else equal I'd prefer the Prius.

Interesting about the Ford C-Max hybrid, thanks for bringing that up. There appears to be a decent option near me.

I remain befuddled by the Crosstrek I linked above being cheaper than the Prius despite being 3 years and 50k miles newer, even considering the error code. Does this indicate that the market believes that the error code indicates the car will need more repairs than what my Googling shows is a simple camshaft position sensor repair?

[JAYSLOL]

Thanks for the advice so far, all!

Yes, it's important that the car have resale value. Hopefully if we sell it we can get a good price considering we're likely to end up somewhere snowy and can advertise the car as coming from the temperate, salt-free, snowless climes of Northern California.

Regarding renting: we've considering it but we're definitely going to have it at least 3 months. I'm finding monthly rentals for $900 with fiancée's corporate group code. So that makes at least $2700 which feels like too much.

I will take a look at CarMax inventory and prices.

We've considered a Camry (and Corolla) but the prices seem basically the same as Prius prices around here, and all else equal I'd prefer the Prius.

Interesting about the Ford C-Max hybrid, thanks for bringing that up. There appears to be a decent option near me.

I remain befuddled by the Crosstrek I linked above being cheaper than the Prius despite being 3 years and 50k miles newer, even considering the error code. Does this indicate that the market believes that the error code indicates the car will need more repairs than what my Googling shows is a simple camshaft position sensor repair?

The Subarus are not nearly as reliable as Toyota or Honda, and it’s reflected in resale value.  I definitely wouldn’t be buying a Subaru with a check engine light on unless I was a Subaru technician or something and knew them inside and out

[bluecollarmusician]

Also, consider a Gen 2 Honda Insight, probably a slighter cheaper but similar in many respects to the Prius.  It wasn't as popular as the Prius, but they are also great cars.

I understand your preference for the Prius, but unless you plan on putting many miles on the car over the course of the years- the non-hybrid (like a corolla or civic hatchback) will likely be less expensive to own.  I understand the allure of increased MPG, but even with gas over 5/gallon in CA, it would take a lot of miles to recoup the cost of replacing a hybrid battery.

[AMandM]

I remain befuddled by the Crosstrek I linked above being cheaper than the Prius despite being 3 years and 50k miles newer, even considering the error code. Does this indicate that the market believes that the error code indicates the car will need more repairs than what my Googling shows is a simple camshaft position sensor repair?

I can't speak to a Crosstrek, but my Hyundai Entourage has a camshaft position error code that we have spent over $1000 trying, unsuccessfully, to fix. We got a waiver on the state emissions test through July 2025; after that, we won't be able to drive it legally.

[obstinate]

I bought a similar Prius (2008 model year) for about $10,500 in 2013. It had 80k miles on it at the time. We drove it for 15k-20k miles over the next few years until we sold it when we moved to NYC. One of the first topics I ever posted on these fora was about the decision:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/worth-it-to-sell-car-and-buy-a-cheaper-one/msg269423/#msg269423

Can't believe that was ten years ago! It was the start of a great financial journey. I loved that Prius, and would happily make the decision again. I ended up selling it 3 years later for about $9,500 ($1,000 loss over 20k miles = 0.05c/mi depreciation).

[Fru-Gal]

Take Amtrak, it goes to all the cities you mentioned.

[VanillaGorilla]

My first Prius was a 2013 that I drove from 70k to 130k miles without a single issue. That car was totaled by an inattentive teen driver and I replaced it with a 2013 Prius with 100k miles on it, which now it sits at 130k. Not a single issue with it. Great cars. Terrible in low traction situations. Fantastic cheap, reliable transportation. I'd drive mine across the country tomorrow without a second thought.

$10k for a 10 year old Prius with 100ish thousand miles seems to be about right.

[baconschteam]

Get a gen 2 Prius (2004-2009). We drove ours back and forth across the country, pulling a trailer with all of our belongings some of the time, and it never let us down. Got 40-50 mpg, and could fit an amazing amount of stuff in there. Because the passenger seat is collapsible I was able to fit 60 2x4s in the car for a project once. I’ve heard the the gen 3 Priuses have more engine issues. Whichever one you get, you will not regret it. Boring, comfortable, and trustworthy, can tow a small trailer. Do it.

[314159]

Well, I'm back to belatedly relay our experience. The seller wanted cash, not a cashier's check, so on the way over to the seller's selected location we stopped at a bank branch and I withdrew $10k in Benjamins. What a weird feeling. I put $8.5k in an envelope and put that envelope in a food storage container to be sure I couldn't lose it, and the rest I put in my wallet, for negotiating purposes. Upon meeting the seller, we asked him to tell us about the car before the test drive. He mentioned that he acquired the car a few months ago. He describes himself as someone who buys and sells cars but is not a dealer. His accent meant I only understood 90% of what he was saying but I think he was selling this car on behalf of a friend? Anyway, he said his wife's car had needed repairs for a while and so his wife drove this car for a while and attested that it was a good one.

We didn't like that the car was described as only 2 owners earlier (I forget if it was in the ad or on the phone). We took it for a test drive, and brought it to a mechanic that we had scheduled earlier for a pre-purchase inspection. While the car was being inspected we went to the deli next door and shared a quite good sandwich. The inspection was all clean, nothing to worry about, and when we asked to pay the guy didn't even charge us the $50 he said it would be when we scheduled! We asked him if he would buy this car if it were him, and he said yes, he would. I asked what he thought of the price and he said he'd buy it at $8.5k.

However, we weren't eager. The screen in the middle of the dashboard that controls the radio, the useless GPS, etc, was broken in the same way as a screen in one of our parent's cars was for a long time. And because we're spoiled from many recent car rentals, we feel the absence of a backup camera, smart-follow-distance cruise control, and lane keeping assistance.

As a result we decided not to buy, at least not this car from this guy at this price. When we told the him so, he immediately offered to come down to $9500 (from the original $9800) and offered to fudge the price on the paperwork so we would pay less sales tax. But we walked away rather than continue to negotiate.

As we were sitting in the rental car which we drove over to meet the seller in, I found on craigslist another Prius at a nearby used car lot that we could see the same day. So we drove over there, and took that one for a drive too. But that car didn't spark joy either.

That we decided not to buy either of these cars gave me a bit of a sense of relief. We also realized we could delay this purchase until after our honeymoon. If we have to rent a car to get to the first city on our tour and buy a car once we get there, that would be no problem. So we'll probably end up doing that.

Thanks all for your advice and wisdom so far!

[Just Joe]

There are tons of very clean used cars to choose from all the time. Don't settle for anything that seems sketchy.

I like to buy from dealerships that run a clean, tidy operation. Appearances count here. Or I like to buy from someone has owned a vehicle for a long time and who keeps a car very clean and squared away. 

Don't forget the unloved sedans in your search. Everyone seems to want an SUV or pickup truck. Meanwhile there are loads of minivans and sedans to choose from on the used market that are perfectly fine vehicles if not trendy. Car reviews often suffer from tiny details syndrome. This car is an old design, totally out of date. Okay - it is reliable but not trendy. Who cares but the media outlet and a certain kind of customer who likes to buy new cars often?

I'm perfectly happy with a 20 year old car if it is clean, well kept and reliable. Or a 20 year old design aka Nissan Frontier pickup. Choices like these have figured strongly into making DW and my average income pile up faster. We drove a 25 year old CRV before gifting it to our eldest who continues to drive it all over our state today. And this year I sold another ~24 year old Chevy sedan that anyone will tell you is the worst car on the road except ti wasn't. It was affordable and got the job done. Maybe not stylish but reliable. 

Also when looking for little hatchback cars don't overlook small SUVs. The HRV for example. We bought an electric Kona recently but truthfully it is a five door hatchback. It is not an off-roader in any way at all. It is very much based on the Hyundai i30.

So the Honda HRV, the Ford Ecosport, Buick Encore, Mazda2, Chevy Trax (cousin to the Buick), etc. You also might find that larger used vehicles can be affordable especially if you expect to use it sparingly like a Ford Escape or Honda CRV (older, smaller iterations), Mazda3, etc. My parents buy GM vehicles, my in-laws buy Fords, and DW and I buy Hondas. All of them have delivered good service if well taken care of and if they are well serviced. My father and I both do our own service and repairs. My father and inlaws also use a good independent shop.

Good luck on your car hunt and the marriage! Congrats!

[314159]

Update in my journal: we bought a car. Despite all of the efforts we made detailed in this thread, we still managed to make every mistake in the book. More at the link. Oof!

[obstinate]

Oof. Buying a Subaru with more than 110k miles on it? Could not be me. Good luck!