The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: Anonymous_UserName on August 24, 2016, 06:31:00 AM
-
Started an anonymous username for this one for a variety of reasons, mostly to do with privacy.
My SO (male) works in a very small industry. Most jobs are acquired as much through word of mouth as they are because of applications. He's been working at Company for less than a year, so is considered very junior, and, for a variety of company reasons (rather than personal reasons), was recently told that his contract would not be renewed in a couple of months. However, Manager A (female) has taken a liking to him and has pushed him to apply for a different position within the company, more higher-up than his current position. Not at all guaranteed to get it, but still something she thinks he should do.
It's an international company, but due to how small the field is this office only has about 20 people in it. They all know each other well and have rather frequent informal get-togethers in the evenings, usually involving liquor provided by Company. One of those happened this week. SO stayed quite late, until the wee hours of the morning, but for a strange reason. Apparently at the end of the night it was down to 3 people: SO, Intern (male), and very well-liked Manager B (male). They'd all been drinking and Intern, who only has a couple of days left before going back to college, thought maybe he'd sleep on the couch in the office instead of going back to his empty rented room. Manager B sat down on the couch and started petting his hair. SO thought it was weird, but brushed it off as drunken behavior. Still, was a little uneasy and got Intern to go home. When it was just the two of them, Manager B began to make strange comments, trying to get SO to wrestle or spar with him, called him "a pussy" when SO refused. Also made a number of racist/xenophobic comments. (According to SO, the cleaning staff were present for some of that.) Still, SO just thought it was drunken behavior, if quite odd. Didn't feel unsafe, due to a history of a self-defense style sport and current weight-lifting. (Neither of which he talks about at the office, because he feels there's no good way to do that without sounding like a braggart.) But, Manager B is very open about the fact that he likes a different martial-arts type sport. Was too drunk to be effective, but it's a well-known thing in the office.
SO was getting increasingly weirded out by Manager B's behavior and, since the guy was making it hard for him to leave, decided to try to get Manager B so drunk that he passed out. (SO was only mildly intoxicated at this point.) That was when he discovered that Manager B was sloppily trying to switch their drinks while distracting him. He tested it out several times, not taking any sips in between. At last fully realized what was going on and got up to leave, without confronting Manager B on the issue. Manager didn't want him to leave, and SO ended up pushing him away a few times, sort of ran to the elevators. (He told me it was "a lucky thing" they closed before Manager B got there.)
Unfortunately, SO didn't think to get any of this recorded and there are no security cameras in the office. Intern was quite drunk and left before the worst of this anyway, so an unreliable witness.
In addition, Manager B is not only well-liked, he's also kind of a star at the company. Fairly young, he made a senior position very quickly. Everyone in the office has a funny/fun story about him and, until now, SO regarded him highly.
SO would like to alert SOMEONE about this behavior, but is concerned about consequences for doing so. Will he be believed, since Manager B is so highly thought of, or will it just sound like sour grapes since his contract isn't getting renewed? Whether he is or isn't believed, how will this affect future job prospects? With so few people in the industry, something like this could follow him for a long time, even if it's not his fault. We have a young family to think of. He's feeling like the choice here is between doing the right thing, reporting this creepy behavior (Manager B was clearly targeting the intern and the junior staffer), and having the career he wants/likes. His thought at the moment is to have an off-site meeting with Manager A. Should he invite someone else? If so, should it be someone he trusts, or should he try to get someone closer to Manager B involved?
How should he handle this without tanking his career?
-
Getting drunk around coworkers is never a good idea.
Reporting stuff like this with the caveat "but I was pretty drunk only mildly intoxicated at the time" also is pretty likely to go over poorly. Not to mention that your entire story is based on, "I decided to get Manager B so drunk that he would pass out."
Your SO's options are pretty limited if their goal is to not tank their career with this company.
-
Getting drunk around coworkers is never a good idea.
Reporting stuff like this with the caveat "but I was pretty drunk only mildly intoxicated at the time" also is pretty likely to go over poorly. Not to mention that your entire story is based on, "I decided to get Manager B so drunk that he would pass out."
Your SO's options are pretty limited if their goal is to not tank their career with this company.
Couldn't agree more. Unwanted consequences of drinking with coworkers. Some people get wild when they drink. I have buddies that always mess around when they get drunk, grab my ass (jokingly) etc and I'm 100% sure they are not homosexual. Just drunk people being obnoxious.
I don't really see anything in the post that's more than a drunk guy being obnoxious.
I'd tell your SO to stop drinking to that extent with coworkers.
-
Since it was after hours and alcohol was involved, I would not pursue it (unless Manager B had made specific remarks about your SO's career in relation to his advances). This sort of thing happens in every company when too much alcohol is involved (and in fact more often than not leads to intercourse!). People are human. The manager is probably very embarrassed and sorry about what happened. Best to avoid being in smallish groups with him in these situations and/or make it clear to him that his advances were not welcome, although I suspect he knows that. If manager is truly ashamed of his drunken behavior it could even work to the advantage of your SO who might get special consideration for sweeping this indiscretion under the rug. As for the intern, unless he is under 18 I reckon he can fend for himself but your SO could check with him.
-
Why is SO staying at work till the wee hours drinking and partying?
Seems like this is where the problem is originating.
-
I'm not sure why he would feel the need to report the situation to anyone at work. I would just write it off as a lesson learned not to stay late and drink with Manager B.
-
Why is SO staying at work till the wee hours drinking and partying?
Seems like this is where the problem is originating.
Very much this. That's not acceptable professional behaviour. Once you've stepped outside of that realm it's pretty hard to point fingers at someone else for being unprofessional.
-
Your SO was doing something stupid, and other people nearby did something even stupider. That's not a surprise, it's a lesson.
Edited: I don't agree with what I wrote here after considering things more thoroughly.
-
UUuhhhh, I guess its good to see that victim blaming isn't just reserved for females. Are you kidding me with these responses??
This guy's behavior is pretty alarming, alcohol or not. Obviousl, how your SO addresses it is entirely up to him and is a pretty personal choice. I would seriously consider discussing it with Manager A or HR. If SO ends up not getting the new position there, perhaps he talks to them after he leaves and secures a new job.
Even if nothing or little is done about the incident, it would be good to have it on record. Maybe there have already been issues and this just adds to them. Or it can add legitimacy to a future report.
-
OP, I am so sorry about this. Your husband was scared, felt trapped, and now feels helpless. If he is otherwise a healthy, functioning adult I would trust his instincts that what the boss did was wrong. It is NOT his fault he wanted to have drinks with someone he thought was a friend. Your husband did nothing wrong. This manager is displaying predatory behavior and there is a good chance he has and will continue to prey on other people.
The choice of whether to report and how to do this is not simple. I would suggest you search for a hotline that specializes in sexual victim support. Even if your case is not extreme they should give you a sympathetic ear be able to point you in the direction of local support groups, attorneys, or whatever you need to make the decision that is right for you.
You are not alone. Please get whatever help you need.
-----------------------------------
To the rest of the commenters thus far (except you, MandyM), shame on you. I never expected to see such horrid victim blaming on this site.
Drinking around coworkers is a bad idea because you might make yourself look like a fool. Drinking does not grant carte blanche to be treated in a way you don’t consent. Whether you do or don’t drink does not give a person in higher or lower authority the right to belittle you, invade your space, coerce you (into not leaving), physically chase you when you are trying to leave. Predators know what they’re doing and they intentionally put themselves and their victims in situations where an outside viewer will say “clearly the victim is exaggerating”, “it’s their own fault they put themselves in that situation”, “someone that high up can have anyone they want and wouldn’t risk their career like that. Obviously victim is looking for a quick payday.” Disgusting.
-
I disagree that this is on the SO.
If you're a supervisor you shouldn't be making passes at juniors and should never put someone in the position where they feel the need to run away from you.
If you want to drunkenly wrestle with someone, do that with your friends, not your colleagues. If you want to wrestle with someone and they say stop, you STOP.
-
Inappropriate behavior is inappropriate, whether drunk or not. If the manager had tried to drive and hit SO's car in the company parking lot, people wouldn't say "oh, well, he was just drunk. Maybe SO shouldn't park there if Manager is going to park nearby and maybe drive drunk."
Also, the company may well have some liability if they provided the alcohol and venue. Especially if the intern is underage (assuming US where legal age is 21).
All that said, SO making a big stink will likely backfire. Even in cases where there is clear documentation and obvious harassment (ie threatening your job if sexual favors aren't granted) rather than "weird and uncomfortable" behavior there can be severe repercussions for victims.
If SO is worried about manager B's behavior, but doesn't want to report, he might have a private, in-person chat with his supervisor (manager A if she counts and he trusts her). She may have reporting requirements for sexual misconduct so he may want to phrase this more as a concern with company liability if employees are getting drunk on company dime in company facilities (and providing alcohol to underage employees), and that he has observed some behavior that could be concerning if this continues. Manager B sounds like a sexual predator-switching drinks, trying to get a young and vulnerable person too drunk to resist advances, etc. but without a good case it probably isn't worth it to SO to pursue, given the issues. Llamo had great advice for figuring this out. Definitely be worth taking the next intern aside and warning him/her about manager B. This could be done by discussing professional behavior and the different status of being an intern vs a full time employee, in a sort of mentoring way rather than accusative of B if SO needs to be careful with that. CYA for SO but still doing something to help prevent B from screwing up intern's life.
Edited to clarify
-
My bet this isn't the first time for Manager B. Predators are everywhere and sometimes wear fancy suits and are well liked.
OP I am sorry that your SO had to go through with this and hopefully will have the strength to report it.
-
I disagree that this is on the SO.
If you're a supervisor you shouldn't be making passes at juniors and should never put someone in the position where they feel the need to run away from you.
If you want to drunkenly wrestle with someone, do that with your friends, not your colleagues. If you want to wrestle with someone and they say stop, you STOP.
It's not that it's SO's fault, the same way someone driving their BMW to a bad part of town and shouting out "Wow, look how nice my car is" then getting out and strolling around at 2 in the morning in a $1000 suit wearing a rolex doesn't deserve to get robbed or their car broken into. Then again, there ARE things you can do to prevent yourself from being taken advantage of or being in a compromising situation. It seems like that's pretty much what all the other employees did by leaving at a reasonable hour.
SHOULD you be able to get shitfaced with a manager at work late at night on the company dime after everyone else leaves and not have any awkward sexual advances happen? I guess so? Will anything good come from OP reporting this situation to other management? Probably not. Probably the best case outcome will be that the company puts a stop to people drinking on company property, which might not go over very well with your peers. Then again it may be a good thing, it depends whether SO wants to be the one who maybe sacrifices part of his career for it.
-
Nothing can make what the manager did appropriate,
but the SO put himself in a bad position to do anything about it.
Edited: I now disagree with the struck-out portion.
-
My bet this isn't the first time for Manager B. Predators are everywhere and sometimes wear fancy suits and are well liked.
OP I am sorry that your SO had to go through with this and hopefully will have the strength to report it.
The drink switching is definitely a serial predator sort of behavior. That's terrifying.
-
Even if SO does nothing because he doesn't want to raise a stink and possibly harm his prospects with the company (many women here will be familiar with this decision), he should discreetly warn other interns/ new hires/ anyone who might get put in that position. Again, many women here will know about the quiet warnings given by other women not to let a specific person walk them home or whatever. These situations suck so badly because of cultural norms protecting the offender and it's important to look out for potential victims.
-
You know, maybe most of us are reading this wrong. The drinking after work is with liquor provided by the company? I think this could be reported, and ought to be, because I wasn't thinking enough on the drink-switching thing.
-
Nothing can make what the manager did appropriate, but the SO put himself in a bad position to do anything about it.
SO's position is being eliminated, and he is in contention for another position which may be a "reach". SO participated in a social gathering at the company with a person who might be able to influence whether he gets said position. SO did not drink very much during this, and happened to stay fairly late (maybe to get an opportunity to talk to B about future prospects in company after the crowd thinned out?). I fail to see where this is unreasonable for SO. In fact, it seems like it was strategic networking until things got crappy due to B.
-
How should he handle this without tanking his career?
Unless his office is outstandingly supportive and ethical, it's really an either/or choice, here. Do the right thing (report) and face all the professional damage, or stay quiet but keep his career on track. Manager B's behaviour is frightening, but with no evidence against him and his position in the company, all he has to say is "I was just kidding around" and he will be absolved.
You've indicated that SO's career is the priority, so this time around I would counsel him to keep quiet. At least he protected the intern, no one was actually harmed, and he didn't feel physically threatened (the fear and powerlessness from that, alone, is very upsetting). Act normal but no more socializing with Manager B in small groups.
I know this is not fair. But given the situation, that's my best advice.
-
Everything about this screams"get FU money".
This is one of many reasons poorer people are more victimized than the financially secure. If your choice is put up with indignity, degrading behavior, and unwanted advances or being evicted, you'll choose the devil you know every time.
-
Nothing can make what the manager did appropriate, but the SO put himself in a bad position to do anything about it.
SO's position is being eliminated, and he is in contention for another position which may be a "reach". SO participated in a social gathering at the company with a person who might be able to influence whether he gets said position. SO did not drink very much during this, and happened to stay fairly late (maybe to get an opportunity to talk to B about future prospects in company after the crowd thinned out?). I fail to see where this is unreasonable for SO. In fact, it seems like it was strategic networking until things got crappy due to B.
You're right, I think the idea of late-night drinking with co-workers seemed so off to me that I didn't process that this is part of the company's culture, as bizarre (and as shown here dangerous) as that is.
-
UUuhhhh, I guess its good to see that victim blaming isn't just reserved for females. Are you kidding me with these responses??
This guy's behavior is pretty alarming, alcohol or not. Obviousl, how your SO addresses it is entirely up to him and is a pretty personal choice. I would seriously consider discussing it with Manager A or HR. If SO ends up not getting the new position there, perhaps he talks to them after he leaves and secures a new job.
Even if nothing or little is done about the incident, it would be good to have it on record. Maybe there have already been issues and this just adds to them. Or it can add legitimacy to a future report.
Exactly. If this as a female SO Amd a male boss has been "petting" the head of a female intern, tried to switch drinks, insisted on wrestling, called sexual/insulting names, physically restrained from leaving - yeah, that is sexual harassment, not just stupid drunk behavior.
-
UUuhhhh, I guess its good to see that victim blaming isn't just reserved for females. Are you kidding me with these responses??
This guy's behavior is pretty alarming, alcohol or not. Obviousl, how your SO addresses it is entirely up to him and is a pretty personal choice. I would seriously consider discussing it with Manager A or HR. If SO ends up not getting the new position there, perhaps he talks to them after he leaves and secures a new job.
Even if nothing or little is done about the incident, it would be good to have it on record. Maybe there have already been issues and this just adds to them. Or it can add legitimacy to a future report.
Exactly. If this as a female SO Amd a male boss has been "petting" the head of a female intern, tried to switch drinks, insisted on wrestling, called sexual/insulting names, physically restrained from leaving - yeah, that is sexual harassment, not just stupid drunk behavior.
I agree with this.
-
To clarify a few things: after hours drinks, provided by the company, are actually a cultural norm in this business (as bizarre as it may seem to some). It is generally a laid-back industry and, as I said, small. In fact, there's usually a stocked liquor cabinet at all times, in most offices in this industry.
SO was there to participate in the networking, and also to give a small talk, which is encouraged and the whole reason for these gatherings. I think it's under the idea of "team building" stuff. SO was intoxicated, as were most of the group, but not drunk. It was in an open area of the office, which is deliberately set up for networking and relaxing with coworkers. Collaboration is necessary in the industry.
SO stayed so late first to make sure the intern was all right (he's become friendly with the intern, them being the two lowest on the hierarchy). He was being the good guy I know him to be, making sure the young and inexperienced guy would be able to get home fine. After that, his intent in staying a little longer was to ensure that Manager B, who was wildly drunk at that point, would also make it home. Some of the red flags started before the intern left, but most of the predatory behavior began when they were alone. And, as a man, he's not used to the signals of imminent sexual harassment the way we ladies tend to be. Most of it he brushed off as just drunken behavior, until the Manager wouldn't let him go and began trying to switch their drinks.
I cannot see how any of this could be construed as anything other than predatory behavior, and completely Manager's fault/responsibility. Targeting the two most junior people in the company, with the least say and the most to lose, as well as trying to coerce and physically force them into unwanted behaviors--did I mention in the original post that he was trying to egg them on to drink more?--is despicable. And after all of that, the man was trying to switch drinks with SO, who still doesn't know if he actually managed to put something in one of them or if he was too drunk and just thought he had.
SO is working from home today.
-
This was very inappropriate behavior and your SO has every reason to feel uncomfortable with it. I think your SO has several options, depending on the details of the people/company, including talking directly to this man to let him know that how he acted was not okay and/or going to HR or another trustworthy company resource.
I work at a small bizarro company too, where drinking with managers is common. I waited too long to speak to HR when I was feeling very unhappy and uncomfortable about someone at my job and I regret it. I thought I needed "proof" or "documented incidents" in order to say something to them, and I had only heard bad things about mistrusting HR with secrets. It's true that what you say in a meeting with HR is not confidential, and they may tell someone else at the company about it. Or they might not. In my case, HR could not take direct action, but they were able to help me deal with it from my end and discuss the issue with upper managers who did take limited action.
Describing what happened in a mature and honest way with HR is going to be the "documented proof" of the incident. He doesn't need a video of the behavior to report it; telling the story and having that recorded by HR is a piece of evidence. If something like this has happened or will happen again, these pieces are used together to understand the trend or as evidence in internal investigations. I spent weeks in emotional turmoil thinking I "didn't have the right" to report something that happened to HR, but I was mistaken and I wished I'd have talked with them sooner.
If your SO is able to report the situation to HR and encourages the intern to do the same, it may not be treated lightly even if this is a senior person. My company takes some things seriously (harassment, stealing), even though they are a very relaxed culture (t-shirts allowed, drinking after work with managers, using foul language/nicknames at work).
This is harassment, and your SO does not deserve to be treated poorly like this.
-
I cannot see how any of this could be construed as anything other than predatory behavior, and completely Manager's fault/responsibility. Targeting the two most junior people in the company, with the least say and the most to lose, as well as trying to coerce and physically force them into unwanted behaviors--did I mention in the original post that he was trying to egg them on to drink more?--is despicable. And after all of that, the man was trying to switch drinks with SO, who still doesn't know if he actually managed to put something in one of them or if he was too drunk and just thought he had.
SO is working from home today.
I think you are assuming somehow that being right will result in benefit for your SO's career. The effect on his career is fairly independent of whether the results here are considered "right" or "wrong."
Unfortunately, someone who just had their position eliminated is likely to be scrutinized for making accusations such as this. It's likely to reflect poorly, particularly since their company seems small enough to not have a formalized HR department.
Your SO needs to decide which is more important.
How should he handle this without tanking his career?
Unless his office is outstandingly supportive and ethical, it's really an either/or choice, here. Do the right thing (report) and face all the professional damage, or stay quiet but keep his career on track. Manager B's behaviour is frightening, but with no evidence against him and his position in the company, all he has to say is "I was just kidding around" and he will be absolved.
You've indicated that SO's career is the priority, so this time around I would counsel him to keep quiet. At least he protected the intern, no one was actually harmed, and he didn't feel physically threatened (the fear and powerlessness from that, alone, is very upsetting). Act normal but no more socializing with Manager B in small groups.
I know this is not fair. But given the situation, that's my best advice.
+1
-
--did I mention in the original post that he was trying to egg them on to drink more?--is despicable.
Omg... Someone who is drinking with a group of people, trying to persuade other people to drink more? Get out of here, no one would do that.....
-
--did I mention in the original post that he was trying to egg them on to drink more?--is despicable.
Omg... Someone who is drinking with a group of people, trying to persuade other people to drink more? Get out of here, no one would do that.....
Wow. Okay. This was a workplace setting, not a frat party. If someone says that they've reached their limit for an evening, that should be that. Also, even if it was a college party I would take issue with someone calling someone else a "pussy" or a "fag" for not drinking more. Maybe in your circles that's acceptable, but here in Adulthood it's not only considered a little silly, it's also a sign of immaturity. And, taken with all the other predatory behaviors, trying to get others drunker than they want is a bit of a warning sign.
I cannot see how any of this could be construed as anything other than predatory behavior, and completely Manager's fault/responsibility. Targeting the two most junior people in the company, with the least say and the most to lose, as well as trying to coerce and physically force them into unwanted behaviors--did I mention in the original post that he was trying to egg them on to drink more?--is despicable. And after all of that, the man was trying to switch drinks with SO, who still doesn't know if he actually managed to put something in one of them or if he was too drunk and just thought he had.
SO is working from home today.
I think you are assuming somehow that being right will result in benefit for your SO's career. The effect on his career is fairly independent of whether the results here are considered "right" or "wrong."
Unfortunately, someone who just had their position eliminated is likely to be scrutinized for making accusations such as this. It's likely to reflect poorly, particularly since their company seems small enough to not have a formalized HR department.
Your SO needs to decide which is more important.
No. I'm assuming that none of this will be beneficial for SO's career. I'm pointing out that blaming the victim for this douchebag's actions is unhelpful in the extreme.
No one is responsible for Manager B's actions but Manager B, so all the people who think that SO is in the wrong for having drunk in a social atmosphere, with the rest of the office present for most of the time, are free to leave the discussion. I wouldn't put up with you guys blaming a woman for her boss's sexual harassment, no matter the circumstances, and I'm not going to put up with it just because all the people in this situation were male.
-
OP, thank you for the follow-up. Your own mental state is badass. I’m no longer so worried that you’ll fall into the “it’s his own fault” mindset, whatever other commenters say.
So back to your original position of what to do. I feel that time is of the essence. HR should get the intern's side of the story and probably interview the cleaning crew while it’s fresh in everyone’s mind. If his position is disappearing anyway, is there really that much left to lose? If they refuse to protect him or take him seriously, is this really an industry he wants to be a part of?
Something else to keep in mind is possibility that they do take you seriously and it results in nothing more than increased training but he still has to see the manager every day. This might feel like it sucks, but boss is now being watched for repeated complaints. He could very well save the next intern from being victimized.
Ultimately though, you should make sure SO is the one taking the lead on all of these moves. He has to be the one to process and decide what is best for him. Support him and make sure whatever he decides it’s because he feels strong.
Please keep us updated as the situation evolves. Good luck.
-
Drinking and socializing with coworkers is irrelevant. The manager's behavior is not appropriate even just among friends either, especially if he really put something in his drink. I socialize with coworkers all the time, we drink, we get drunk, etc but never have I experienced unwelcomed advances by a manager or a coworker. If there is someone he trusts that he can talk to at work, I would suggest that.
-
Wow. Okay. This was a workplace setting, not a frat party. If someone says that they've reached their limit for an evening, that should be that. Also, even if it was a college party I would take issue with someone calling someone else a "pussy" or a "fag" for not drinking more. Maybe in your circles that's acceptable, but here in Adulthood it's not only considered a little silly, it's also a sign of immaturity. And, taken with all the other predatory behaviors, trying to get others drunker than they want is a bit of a warning sign.
Well, getting drunk with coworkers in the office isn't acceptable in most workplaces either. I think this workplace sounds closer to a frat party than most. There's plenty of industries where name calling and peer pressure are norms, and sometimes required to be taken seriously. It's not nice or polite, but it seems like you're trying to apply formal business etiquette to a company that is not that.
Someone who works at staples calling a coworker a pussy for not being able to lift a box is going to get reprimanded quickly, an oil rig worker doing the same is going to get a chuckle from the rest of the group. Does that make it right? No, but I'm not exactly outraged about it either.
The drink switching, head petting, and any abnormal physical contact is what you should be mad about, not the encouraging someone to drink more or calling them names.
No. I'm assuming that none of this will be beneficial for SO's career. I'm pointing out that blaming the victim for this douchebag's actions is unhelpful in the extreme.
No one is responsible for Manager B's actions but Manager B, so all the people who think that SO is in the wrong for having drunk in a social atmosphere, with the rest of the office present for most of the time, are free to leave the discussion. I wouldn't put up with you guys blaming a woman for her boss's sexual harassment, no matter the circumstances, and I'm not going to put up with it just because all the people in this situation were male.
Yes, manager B is responsible. Unfortunately, you aren't manager B's mother or SO, so you don't have much say in what he does other than to report it, which has possible consequences listed above. You came here asking how to handle this without tanking his career, not to ask us if we thought his behavior was acceptable. If you just want everyone's opinion on whether or not manager B is a scumbag, I think you'll get mostly yes answers. That doesn't help you much.
I think you might be confusing some of our advice with victim blaming. Suggesting that maybe your husband shouldn't get drunk with coworkers in small groups in private settings doesn't mean we're blaming him. The same way suggesting my friend shouldn't wear his diamond studded rolex to a sketchy area in Chicago doesn't mean I think he's the one at fault for it getting stolen. It's a realistic suggestion to help prevent similar situations in the future from happening.
-
Ok let me give you the counter perspective.
You are a manager of a small company. You have treated people with respect and they in turn respect you and enjoy working with you. One night you had too much to drink and acted inappropriately. Not gravely inappropriate, but definitely unprofessional. Your probably don't even remember the incident. Then someone low in the company, employee "A", files a sexual harrassment report against you. This leads to a big investigation where your job is in jeopardy.
Outcome 1) The charges are dismissed and you remain in management. A's position was going to terminate anyways. Would you help this A in getting a new position, or writing a letter of recommendation? (probably not). Since it's a small industry, would you let other managers know of this person filing an unfounded report against you (remember there's no proof and you likely didn't remember the incident) (probably, even if just because of casual conversation). Outcome 1, employee A chances are screwed.
Outcome 2) The charges are accepted and you get fired. A lot of people really enjoyed working with you and pissed at A for causing you to be dismissed. Are THOSE people going to vouch for A to get a new position in the same or another company? (probably not). Outcome 2, employee A chances are screwed.
For all those that say "report it", you aren't the one dealing with the consequence. The smarter and more objective thing to do is UNLESS IT'S A RECURRENT PROBLEM (which is unlikely), just keep quiet and write it off a stupid drunken behavior. This is not about being right or wrong. This is doing what is practical given the world we live in.
-
What would your SO think is the ideal outcome?
My ideal outcome would be for there to be a note on file with HR, and that the Manager B is informed that a co-worker complained about his behavior when drinking at after hours gathering (without mentioning who, details, or sexual harrassment to Manager B, such that it can be figured out.).
To do this, I would meet privately with HR or ethics person, and let them know my concerns, *verbally* and my overwhelming need for anonymity, even if that meant no formal complaint, and that excessive drinking was involved and the behaviour may be solely due to that. Give HR the option to drop it, in other words, or ask them to curtail the drinking after hours to only 1 drink (our work does that simply by only buying 1 drink per person and having a curfew to be out of the office).
As nothing actually happened, and you don't want to be on record and named as the complaintant, HR may drop it, this may add up with other "incidents" and need action, or they may record it (in memory or notes) for future.
The xenophobia remarks alone could be worthy of a chat with HR, with no official sanctions forthcoming.
-
Wohhhh.
Was not expecting the massive shitstorm of victim blaming. o_O; And excuse generating.
Anonymous_UserName - sorry your SO is dealing with this bullshit. You said you are a woman, so you understand what's going on here likely better than many posters who seem a little out of touch.
Whether or not SO reports it or not is his call. I wish that it hadn't happened, and I'm sorry. :( If I was your SO's HR department or manager, I'd want to know, because shit like this is Not Good, not just morally, but potentially for a company if things ever become worse. However, yeah, I don't know what it would do for your SO's standing.
A question that I haven't seen raised yet: why not take this as an opportunity to look elsewhere? Do you guys have an emergency fund? I say report it (honestly) and encourage SO to find another job where he doesn't have this shit to deal with. Best of both worlds in that if there's a larger problem the company can deal with it and this manager might get a little comeuppance (or at least a reprimand for Bad Decisions) and your SO can move along because his contract is ending anyhow (so it's not like it's 'under bad terms')
-
Lewd behavior brought on by drinking alcohol? No way!
Hopefully Manager B realizes that he screwed up - but the best way to prevent this from happening in the future is for your SO to leave these "parties" as soon as the first few people do.
If your SO wants to say anything at all, it needs to be to the manager directly, but in a very subtle way. I can't see what he would gain by trying to report him to anyone higher than Manager B - there's absolutely no evidence as you said and it's just a he-said she-said game at this point.
-
What would your SO think is the ideal outcome?
My ideal outcome would be for there to be a note on file with HR, and that the Manager B is informed that a co-worker complained about his behavior when drinking at after hours gathering (without mentioning who, details, or sexual harrassment to Manager B, such that it can be figured out.).
To do this, I would meet privately with HR or ethics person, and let them know my concerns, *verbally* and my overwhelming need for anonymity, even if that meant no formal complaint, and that excessive drinking was involved and the behaviour may be solely due to that. Give HR the option to drop it, in other words, or ask them to curtail the drinking after hours to only 1 drink (our work does that simply by only buying 1 drink per person and having a curfew to be out of the office).
As nothing actually happened, and you don't want to be on record and named as the complaintant, HR may drop it, this may add up with other "incidents" and need action, or they may record it (in memory or notes) for future.
The xenophobia remarks alone could be worthy of a chat with HR, with no official sanctions forthcoming.
If you meet with an HR person, chances are very high that they are going to formalize it. Putting a note in a file with such a serious allegation from a subordinate without letting the person know that a serious allegation has been made against them? I just don't see that happening. Nor is it likely that they'll make a mental note of it in case a similar incident occurs in the future. What are they going to say? "Hey, this sounds remarkably similar to a previous, very serious allegation against the employee in question. You can't find it in the file anywhere because I chose to not do anything about it, but maybe this time we should act?"
There's really only a few potential outcomes:
Tell HR - things get messy; probably bad for your SO's career (maybe if this type of thing has happened before and this is just confirmation for something they were always going to do, it's not that big of a deal).
Don't say anything - probably ok, unless he's actually a predator
Tell a trusted manager something along the lines of "we were drinking; some weird stuff happened; I think Co-worker was just hammered and don't think it means anything, but since I'm leaving, I did want to let somebody know in case something similar came up in the future and it turns out it wasn't just Co-worker being hammered." Would probably throw in something along the lines of "I really hate to even mention this because I like Co-worker so much and woudl hate to hurt his reputation with anybody simply because he did some weird stuff while he was drunk, but at the same time felt like I had to at least let somebody know since I'm leaving."
Maybe trusted manager has already heard whispers so this isn't news. Maybe trusted manager feels morally obligated to pursue it, in which case you're SO probably still gets screwed.
I would not say anything unless your SO felt so strongly that the guy is a predator that he is going to successfully date rape somebody if he doesn't say anything. I would just be hesitant to throw that grenade for something that could have just been his coworker having a bad drunk.
-
No. I'm assuming that none of this will be beneficial for SO's career. I'm pointing out that blaming the victim for this douchebag's actions is unhelpful in the extreme.
No one is responsible for Manager B's actions but Manager B, so all the people who think that SO is in the wrong for having drunk in a social atmosphere, with the rest of the office present for most of the time, are free to leave the discussion. I wouldn't put up with you guys blaming a woman for her boss's sexual harassment, no matter the circumstances, and I'm not going to put up with it just because all the people in this situation were male.
I guess I really don't understand the purpose of your thread.
Your entire post was predicated on the question, "How should he handle this without tanking his career?" and when people give you actionable responses you don't like, you start complaining about how people are blaming your SO.
My advice to a woman wanting to minimize the risk for sexual harassment in the workplace would be to avoid situations alone with drunk managers late into the evening, too. I would most certainly not tell her that she should wear revealing outfits, flirt with her manager, all the while getting him uproariously drunk late into the evening. After all, it's not her fault if it ends poorly, so shouldn't she go ahead and do this?
Those of you getting on the "stop blaming the victim" bandwagon probably wouldn't recommend this young woman to do this either, right? Why not? Or would you recommend that she go ahead and do that?
There is a difference between "blaming the victim" and utilizing common sense. You can't change other people. All you can do is change yourself. Acting differently in light of how other people might respond in ways that negatively affect you is simply common sense. There are very few circumstances when being alone late at night with coworkers who are drunk is a good idea.
-
OP also mentioned that that manager is possibly up for a partnership. If I were a partner I would absolutely want to know about this incident. This guy screams future lawsuit and I would never want to risk my company like that. Even if I genuinely believed the manager was not actually a predator I would still hold him liable for drinking with subordinates to excess. The guy's a bomb that's going to blow up on someone (dear NSA, that's just an expression) and it's not going to be me.
-
OP also mentioned that that manager is possibly up for a partnership. If I were a partner I would absolutely want to know about this incident. This guy screams future lawsuit and I would never want to risk my company like that. Even if I genuinely believed the manager was not actually a predator I would still hold him liable for drinking with subordinates to excess. The guy's a bomb that's going to blow up on someone (dear NSA, that's just an expression) and it's not going to be me.
Ok let's be real. No one is playing the hero here. OP's purpose is not to save the company from a potential future lawsuit. OP is also not intending to protect all the potential unknown future people from experiencing the same thing.
One thing I want to ask that no one pointed out is why not just approaching the Manager himself? Not in an accusatory manner, but a "hey do you remember what happened, you made me feel uncomfortable" manner. This Manager isn't well-liked for no reason. He will probably get a personal apology irregardless of fault, and respect that SO didn't just go narc on him to HR.
-
I guess I really don't understand the purpose of your thread.
The purpose of the thread was stated at the beginning. Now that this situation has occurred, what is the best course of action? Not, what could he have done to prevent this in the first place? I doubt most of the men in this thread/on this forum expect to be sexually harassed, whether the harasser is male or female. It genuinely never popped in his head that well-liked Manager B might, in fact, be a sexual predator.
Now that the situation has happened, his behavior after hours and around Manager B will be different. He still hasn't, as far as I know, decided on a course of action. And he's following this thread as well, to see what people say. He's said that some of you seem really obtuse as to what the situation actually was. The practical advice, rather than trying to excuse Manager B or pin blame on him, is the helpful part. Which is what I asked for in the beginning.
If you'd like to start a thread talking about why drinking with coworkers is/isn't a bad idea, or how to avoid sexual harassment, go ahead. This is not it. We wanted advice on what should be done in the current situation, preferably from people who have more experience with this stuff.
OP is also not intending to protect all the potential unknown future people from experiencing the same thing.
Actually, yes. That's why my SO feels so torn. He doesn't want to destroy his career in a field which he genuinely loves, however he also doesn't want this guy to get a free pass in the future to possibly do worse. As he kept telling me once he got home, he never once felt in danger. He can handle himself and he was not that intoxicated, not anywhere near where Manager B thought he was. But other people might not have his strength or his background in self-defense. If he hadn't stayed around to make sure Intern got home safely, what might have happened? It's sort of haunting him.
This could be the first time Manager B has done something like this. Will it be the last? We don't know. What if SO says nothing and someone else later gets hurt? We can't know the answers to these. It's a very murky area.
In addition, SO is displaying some of the classic symptoms of women in this situation. He's second-guessing himself hardcore, wondering if anyone would even believe him. Morally he feels that telling someone is the right thing (and the office is small enough not to have an HR department at this location -- Manager A is the closest they have) but also feels that ruining his career, with our family needing his income, isn't morally right either.
We do have an emergency fund. He is actively seeking other employment. But, he likes this company and, until this at least, wanted to stay with them if possible. If he does apply for and get the position Manager A told him to go for, it's 100% remote, so he wouldn't have to interact with Manager B daily. On the other hand, he also wouldn't be there to warn others in lowly positions, but since he's being let go that's true in any case.
-
Good luck.
-
My advice: keep mouth shut. He doesn't have a pattern of this and it will just hurt your SO To report undocumented story.
Also, please have a discussion with your SO about safe behavior. SO thought the manager put something in his drink and then proceeded to taste it? Why? Want to tempt the devil? Honestly, this one part made me doubt the entire story. As a woman, this just doesn't sound like plausible behavior. But maybe men like to tempt fate a bit more. In any case, that was just plain stupid. He could have been incapacitated and then what?
-
If you'd like to start a thread talking about why drinking with coworkers is/isn't a bad idea, or how to avoid sexual harassment, go ahead. This is not it. We wanted advice on what should be done in the current situation, preferably from people who have more experience with this stuff.
Well, to be fair, this forum is predominately made up of engineer-type folks who likely have never run into this situation (thus the advice on not ending up in it in the first place).
A potentially (bi?) dude came onto your husband in an inappropriate matter and he wasn't in danger - it's not the end of the world. Uncomfortable and unprofessional...sure, but there are ways to deal with this. And the best course of action is approaching the manager directly and letting him know "I don't want to make this awkward, but your behavior made me uncomfortable and I was just wondering if you were aware of that. I'd like to avoid any sort of encounters of that nature in the future." And I would go from there.
If he really feels like it is something that he can't bounce back from mentally, then by all means move on and report the guy if necessary (though still doubt it will accomplish anything) - but I think looking for other work before trying to iron out the situation directly is a bit rash. Human nature is complicated and not everyone is a horrible piece of shit predator just because they got a little drunk and went over the line.
-
When my wife and I were dating, she was sexually assulted onboard ship. It was 4th of july, the ship was tied up at the USCG station in Boston. A large number of people watched the fireworks from the flying bridge, while drinking extremely illegal alcohol. My wife had a few sips, but didn't like the taste and pitched her's overboard. At one point the CO wandered by, giving everyone a wink an a nod.
Later that night, a guy who'd been transfered to the ship due to 'problems' in his previous assignment went into wife's stateroom. She woke up with his hand under her shirt.
I advised her to report the incident, because it was the right thing to do, and I wanted her to get support. And I wanted that fucker to die.
An investigation was opened, and my wife got the support I expected, right up to the point the drinking aboard ship was discovered. After that, the investigating board 'decided' she and homeboy had been dating, but she wanted out, and decided crying rape was the best way to get rid of him. She was charged with perjury, and conduct unbecoming.
Leadership ended up canceling the board, due to pressure from someone. Probably the CO, though we'll never be certain exactly who saved her. The guy who assaulted her remains unpunished.
I'm absolutely not victim blaming, but the fact that your SO was drinking, and encouraged others to drink, introduces quite a lot of grey and eliminates the ability to make summary judgement. It sucks. It shouldn't be that way. But there's no denying the current state of reporting.
Your SO can report, but he'll have to accept the fact that the consequences might be terrible. If I could go back in time, I'd never push my wife to report.
-
*snip*
Tell a trusted manager something along the lines of "we were drinking; some weird stuff happened; I think Co-worker was just hammered and don't think it means anything, but since I'm leaving, I did want to let somebody know in case something similar came up in the future and it turns out it wasn't just Co-worker being hammered." Would probably throw in something along the lines of "I really hate to even mention this because I like Co-worker so much and woudl hate to hurt his reputation with anybody simply because he did some weird stuff while he was drunk, but at the same time felt like I had to at least let somebody know since I'm leaving."
Maybe trusted manager has already heard whispers so this isn't news. Maybe trusted manager feels morally obligated to pursue it, in which case you're SO probably still gets screwed.
*snip*
I agree with this statement as excerpted. SO needs to tell Manager A and tell Manager A to talk to Intern and the cleaning crew on duty that night. I hope Intern remembers the night. At the least, Manager A might make sure that she stays around for these drinking events to get a better idea of how Manager B acts when things get liquored up.
It's a shame no one held onto the glasses of alcohol to test them for roofies.
Your SO is a good guy for making sure Intern stayed safe.
I haven't seen anyone mention going to the police about this. If Manager B had roofies with him that night, it would stand to reason that he would have more ready for the next planned drinking event, so there might still be a chance to catch him. If there is going to be another drinking night soon that your husband will attend, please look up what your state rules are for recording conversations. In my state, it is single-party consent, so if I have a conversation with someone and I know there is a recorder running, it is okay to record even if the other guy doesn't know. Just some thoughts.
I'm not sure what the right answer is. I've never had to deal with anything like this. Good luck, OP and SO, that whatever you decide to do goes smoothly.
-
Whatever happens, the SO needs to write down what happened. Include dates, times, people present (find out the cleaning staff's names if possible), and anything else he can remember. Be specific. Hell, write down the drinks and who bought them.
When Manager B tries it on someone else (and he will), there will be some corroborating data to back up the accusation.
-
odd timing this...I just completed my sexual harassment training today at work...
I just keep thinking about the fox news dude who had been harassing women for years...once the first woman reported it, others came out of the woodwork. How could it go on for so long? because no one reports it. For exactly the reasons you state. That being said, I'm not sure I would have reported it either...it's hard to sacrifice your career for a 'is he a predator or a stupid drunk?'
Basically, I have no advice. I just wanted to express my sympathy for your SO...and you too.
-
With no witnesses all he really has to do is deny it and they can both get in trouble. Even with a witness, without hard proof, then can still go back to both of them.
I'm a bit bitter about the subject.
I'm a male. When I was 18 I worked in a medical facility. There was a girl my age I worked with who I had messed around with some outside of work. She had feelings for me, but I didn't want to date her. This bothered her big time.
One night, while working with her, I get a call from a nurse that said, "hey, just a heads up, I was just in the break room and I heard (that girl) talking with another girl about how they were going to come up with some elaborate story and try and get you fired for sexual harassment."
I was beyond floored. I immediately walked out of the facility and called HR and told them exactly what happened. The nurse that called me to tell me even vouched for me on the whole thing. However, because it was a "he said/she said" thing, we both got 3 days off. I was amazed that a person could stoop so low. It messed me up working with women for years after that.
-
Whatever happens, the SO needs to write down what happened. Include dates, times, people present (find out the cleaning staff's names if possible), and anything else he can remember. Be specific. Hell, write down the drinks and who bought them.
When Manager B tries it on someone else (and he will), there will be some corroborating data to back up the accusation.
This is great advice, as well as Llamo's suggestions. Talking to people "in the trenches" may help a lot more than anonymous forums that are apparently half full of bros. It's tough to say go to Manager A without knowing how much SO can trust her nor whether she has duty to report. I have duty to report at my job, so if I know of any sexual harassment of any employee then I'm legally obligated to report. But there's a big HR dept so that's a different ballgame than a tiny place with no HR like your SO is facing. Writing stuff down now is a great idea. He could take intern to lunch or coffee and casually ask if intern remembers much about that evening and go from there.
Sexual predators are really good at knowing when they can probably get away with a situation. It's likely this guy got aggressive precisely because he knew he was in a situation where SO and intern were very junior and there was drinking, hence the "excuse". He has probably done this before and will again. OTOH for all the reasons mentioned about the risk of reporting, documentation and evidence may be the best course for SO.
-
Wow. OP -- I am totally with everything you have said here. I started trying to quote all the terrible/ridiculous comments, but there were too many. When did anyone say her SO took a drink after it had been roofied??? Sheesh.
In and ideal world, I think your SO would go talk to Manager A immediately. As someone else suggested, he could bring it up very vaguely, and adjust the conversation as he gauges MA's reaction. This is the only way I could see myself doing something like this, as I am super non-confrontational. He could first bring up that things got a little out of hand during a recent office drinking session, then see if MA (a) laughs it off, or (b) seems concerned and asks for more information. I would try to delay bringing MB's name into the situation until you feel this is something of concern to MA. Even then, I would express that the incident alone wasn't necessarily worthy of any consequences, but that it indicated a larger pattern where others may have been put in danger (or may be, in the future). Just tell the truth, that you wanted to flag this incident in case there have been other issues.
I 10000000%%%%% feel that MB has acted this way (or inappropriately in some other way) in the past, and that he will again in the future. I feel for your SO and agree this will be extremely hard to bring up, if he decides to do so.
I also think talking to the intern, very casually, could be helpful. If the intern felt alarmed by MB's behavior as well, that is good support for SO's reporting. The could even meet with MA together if they were feeling brave.
-
Wow. OP -- I am totally with everything you have said here. I started trying to quote all the terrible/ridiculous comments, but there were too many. When did anyone say her SO took a drink after it had been roofied??? Sheesh.
In and ideal world, I think your SO would go talk to Manager A immediately. As someone else suggested, he could bring it up very vaguely, and adjust the conversation as he gauges MA's reaction. This is the only way I could see myself doing something like this, as I am super non-confrontational. He could first bring up that things got a little out of hand during a recent office drinking session, then see if MA (a) laughs it off, or (b) seems concerned and asks for more information. I would try to delay bringing MB's name into the situation until you feel this is something of concern to MA. Even then, I would express that the incident alone wasn't necessarily worthy of any consequences, but that it indicated a larger pattern where others may have been put in danger (or may be, in the future). Just tell the truth, that you wanted to flag this incident in case there have been other issues.
I 10000000%%%%% feel that MB has acted this way (or inappropriately in some other way) in the past, and that he will again in the future. I feel for your SO and agree this will be extremely hard to bring up, if he decides to do so.
I also think talking to the intern, very casually, could be helpful. If the intern felt alarmed by MB's behavior as well, that is good support for SO's reporting. The could even meet with MA together if they were feeling brave.
Kitkat did a great job synthesizing and expressing my thoughts on the situation and the prior comments, as well.
OP, your husband's employer definitely SHOULD want to know about the events of that evening because Manager B put them at risk of a potential claim by the intern, the cleaning crew, your husband, and any other witness of Manager B's unwanted sexual advances and/or discriminatory statements. This is true even though there was drinking involved and even though it was after business hours. (While in this case, the events all took place on the employer's property, note that that is not a necessary element for the employer to be held liable -- if these events took place at a group happy hour at the bar, the employer would also be at risk of being held liable. And in case anyone here is confused to believe that because all the people involved were men that that negates the sexual harassment in any degree, we should be clear, federal law recognizes that a victim and a harasser can be of the same sex.) Even though your husband should not suffer retaliation from this employer based on reporting Manager B's conduct, we all realize, as a practical matter, that does not mean your husband would be guaranteed complete protection from any negative consequences like reputation, references, etc. That's why I like the way Kitkat steps through the reporting process gradually and carefully, taking into account what sort of reception your husband gets from Manager A and adapting how much to share from there. Ultimately, your husband will need to decide whether the principle of the matter is worth the potential risk to him personally. From what you've written here, I think Manager B has likely acted this way before and will do so again, and it would be a great thing if your husband has the fortitude to report what he witnessed of Manager B's conduct that evening.
-
My advice: keep mouth shut. He doesn't have a pattern of this and it will just hurt your SO To report undocumented story.
Also, please have a discussion with your SO about safe behavior. SO thought the manager put something in his drink and then proceeded to taste it? Why? Want to tempt the devil? Honestly, this one part made me doubt the entire story. As a woman, this just doesn't sound like plausible behavior. But maybe men like to tempt fate a bit more. In any case, that was just plain stupid. He could have been incapacitated and then what?
I specifically said that he didn't drink anything after he realized Manager B was (clumsily) trying to switch drinks with him.
Sailor Sam, I'm so sorry your wife was put in that situation. I've heard plenty of times about the shitty, shitty ways the military deals with sexual harassment, and it makes me furious every time. My hat's off to you and your wife, for putting up with all that you have in your chosen career.
-
Something similar came up in office and it was again a same gender harassment after office hours. The employee reported to higher management and the HR and it came out that previous complaints had also been filed about the same person. HR asked the employee what action he wanted to take against the offender. The employee didn't want to rock the boat of one off incident but told HR he would expect an action taken if this ever happens again.
There was booze involved and a huge age difference between the two so a similar story just off office premises. My recommendation- spill the beans to the other manager and HR. Let them know that even if you are leaving you would like the company to know that the concerned person is not trustworthy enough. Also look for other jobs, there is always a fallout. Though where i work the company policy protects the reporting employee, how well it work no clue.
-
One note of caution that I haven't seen anyone else mention: your SO states that while Manager B was already drunk, towards the end of a long evening of drinking, he deliberately tried to get Manager B so drunk that he passed out. Your SO also states that although he felt weirded out and Manager B was making it difficult for him to leave, he did not feel unsafe.
If this is reported to Manager A or HR in this way, SO could be in serious trouble, for encouraging someone who was drunk to drink more until they passed out. The fact that the drink switching by Manager B only seems to have happened after your SO started trying to get him drunk is also relevant: the previous acknowledged "I was trying to get Manager B drunk enough to pass out" severely taints the allegation of drink switching. If any of this becomes known to Manager A and HR, the chances of any allegations by SO being switched around and becoming allegations against SO (as happened with no justification at all to Sailor Sam's wife) and of consequent reputational damage to SO, are high.
Is this fair? No. Is it victim blaming? Perhaps. Is this how predators escape far too often, because the victim cannot present themselves as utterly blameless? Yes.
If SO is really, thoroughly concerned that Manager B is an out of control predator and repeat offender he could, and perhaps should, go to the police and make a complaint of criminal sexual offences rather than treating this as an internal matter for the company.
-
I'm not a lawyer, but I really doubt any crimes could be proven against Manager B. We can only hope that they already have a similar allegation against him and are more likely to believe SO because of it.
-
Yes, trying to get the guy so drunk that he would pass out, even though the victim did not feel unsafe in the situation. That's a straight up bad judgment call, and unfortunately one that taints the entire case against manager. If SO cares about future predatory behavior, discreetly spread the word among the interns and lower staff members that no one should be drinking alone with manager. It will get around.
Get out of the there, and after SO has a job working somewhere else, call someone back at the old company and make a more substantial report on the chance that this is not a one off weird night. I'm sorry, but your SO has to protect himself and his career first, lest he be victimized again (work-wise) by this guy.
-
I specifically said that he didn't drink anything after he realized Manager B was (clumsily) trying to switch drinks with him.
This part confused me. What was he testing? His theory that the manager was switching drinks?
SO was getting increasingly weirded out by Manager B's behavior and, since the guy was making it hard for him to leave, decided to try to get Manager B so drunk that he passed out. (SO was only mildly intoxicated at this point.) That was when he discovered that Manager B was sloppily trying to switch their drinks while distracting him. He tested it out several times, not taking any sips in between. At last fully realized what was going on and got up to leave, without confronting Manager B on the issue. Manager didn't want him to leave, and SO ended up pushing him away a few times, sort of ran to the elevators. (He told me it was "a lucky thing" they closed before Manager B got there.)
I would be very careful about going forward to anyone including the intern. There are a lot of statements here that look like eh could be turned around on your SO to make it look like he was the instigator. If your SO was the one pouring the drinks, then that doesn't look good for him.
To continue along those lines, they could twist the situation to show that your SO set the entire thing up and was even savvy enough to arrange to get the intern out of there so he could be alone with manager B.
If you've ever testified in court, you'll know that the people on stand rarely get to tell their full story. They answer questions that are framed very narrowly to demonstrate only what the prosecutor or defense wants to prove. I'm afraid your SO will not come out smelling like roses and will be also be accused of relationships on the DL.
What did he mean by he was lucky the elevator doors shut? That he would have been molested otherwise? Or that there would be a fight?
In any case, sorry this happened, but I still would be very careful repeating any of it. He just needs to get the hell away from that place.
-
Would it be a bad idea to have a private chat with the manager who got out of line? Maybe just indicate that you felt things went a little too far and you were uncomfortable, you don't want to make a big deal out of it . . . but you don't want it to happen again. Then see what the response is and figure out how to proceed from there.
-
Would it be a bad idea to have a private chat with the manager who got out of line? Maybe just indicate that you felt things went a little too far and you were uncomfortable, you don't want to make a big deal out of it . . . but you don't want it to happen again. Then see what the response is and figure out how to proceed from there.
What would be the point of this? If B doesn't consider switching drinks, inappropriately petting the intern's head, or making xenophobic comments to the janitors to be problem behavior, how is SO confronting him going to change his attitude? Or help SO?
-
Would it be a bad idea to have a private chat with the manager who got out of line? Maybe just indicate that you felt things went a little too far and you were uncomfortable, you don't want to make a big deal out of it . . . but you don't want it to happen again. Then see what the response is and figure out how to proceed from there.
What would be the point of this? If B doesn't consider switching drinks, inappropriately petting the intern's head, or making xenophobic comments to the janitors to be problem behavior, how is SO confronting him going to change his attitude? Or help SO?
It serves a few purposes:
- It was mentioned that the boss was completely wasted, so it is possible that he knows it was a big screw-up and feels bad about it. If so, you'll get a read on this.
- This should give better insight into the kind of person he really is and whether this was a fluke weird situation caused by too much booze, or the kind of thing that's going to keep coming up. If he's a senior member of the company, it gives you some information about the kind of people who succeed at the company and a good idea about whether or not you really want to be working there at all.
- If worded correctly, this could be a subtle form of blackmail for the SO to apply. Not immediately taking the matter to HR might get the boss to look favorably upon SO's future at the company.
Most here are saying go straight to HR. The purpose of HR is solely to protect the company from liability. In the case of a couple juniors who are about to leave and a senior employee drinking to the point of intoxication on company property after hours it would not surprise me if HR does little to nothing protect the juniors. If you talk quietly with the manager first, you still have the option of going to HR but have given yourself a couple other options first.
-
I specifically said that he didn't drink anything after he realized Manager B was (clumsily) trying to switch drinks with him.
This part confused me. What was he testing? His theory that the manager was switching drinks?
SO was getting increasingly weirded out by Manager B's behavior and, since the guy was making it hard for him to leave, decided to try to get Manager B so drunk that he passed out. (SO was only mildly intoxicated at this point.) That was when he discovered that Manager B was sloppily trying to switch their drinks while distracting him. He tested it out several times, not taking any sips in between. At last fully realized what was going on and got up to leave, without confronting Manager B on the issue. Manager didn't want him to leave, and SO ended up pushing him away a few times, sort of ran to the elevators. (He told me it was "a lucky thing" they closed before Manager B got there.)
I would be very careful about going forward to anyone including the intern. There are a lot of statements here that look like eh could be turned around on your SO to make it look like he was the instigator. If your SO was the one pouring the drinks, then that doesn't look good for him.
To continue along those lines, they could twist the situation to show that your SO set the entire thing up and was even savvy enough to arrange to get the intern out of there so he could be alone with manager B.
If you've ever testified in court, you'll know that the people on stand rarely get to tell their full story. They answer questions that are framed very narrowly to demonstrate only what the prosecutor or defense wants to prove. I'm afraid your SO will not come out smelling like roses and will be also be accused of relationships on the DL.
What did he mean by he was lucky the elevator doors shut? That he would have been molested otherwise? Or that there would be a fight?
In any case, sorry this happened, but I still would be very careful repeating any of it. He just needs to get the hell away from that place.
I read the "testing" not as actually trying the drinks, but for example thinking 'ok, I know his drink has more ice than mine, so I'm going to walk away for a second and see if he switches them'. But the OP can clarify.
The "trying to get him drunk" thing is the one part of the SO's story that didn't quite sit well with me.. why not just leave sooner? Or convince him to leave (even to go to a bar) then ditch out on the way? I agree with others that this needs to be presented more clearly if there is a better way to paint it. If there is not a better way to paint it, well you are in a sticky situation as Manager B may have noticed this happening. Blue House brings up a good point, that while this is your SO's side of the story, the Manager B may have a very different side (or be able to twist one) and both could be true. True meaning that they each were experiencing different things, unaware of the other's intentions, etc.
If he does report, he should protect himself by fully disclosing all of the information about what happened. If he covers parts of his behavior and they come out later, it will be worse. Ryan Lochte comes to mind :)
-
I'm not a lawyer, but I really doubt any crimes could be proven against Manager B. We can only hope that they already have a similar allegation against him and are more likely to believe SO because of it.
Whoa, none of this is about reporting a CRIME. This is a matter of CIVIL law.
Most here are saying go straight to HR. The purpose of HR is solely to protect the company from liability. In the case of a couple juniors who are about to leave and a senior employee drinking to the point of intoxication on company property after hours it would not surprise me if HR does little to nothing protect the juniors. If you talk quietly with the manager first, you still have the option of going to HR but have given yourself a couple other options first.
You're correct that the function of HR is to gather as much information as possible, assess the risk of claims against the company, and protect the company from future claims. However, it's not just about the intern who's about to leave and the employee whose contract is almost up. It is about every single other person who interacts with Manager B now or in the future. Once HR is put on notice of this situation happening then they KNOW that Manager B could be a risk for them in the future. If someone else has an incident with Manager B in the future and complains to HR or files a lawsuit against the company, then HR CANNOT deny that they knew nothing of Manager B's proclivities. It would be in the record -- and documents would be produced if it went so far as a lawsuit -- that show the employer had knowledge of a prior event and should have known Manager B may act inappropriately in the future.
-
I wonder if the manager thought the same about the SO. OP said SO was trying to get the manager drunk so maybe the manager thought something is up and that's why he tried to switch the drinks.
-
Also, I wouldn't go to manager B because the second SO leaves his office, the manager will go to HR to protect himself.
-
You're correct that the function of HR is to gather as much information as possible, assess the risk of claims against the company, and protect the company from future claims. However, it's not just about the intern who's about to leave and the employee whose contract is almost up. It is about every single other person who interacts with Manager B now or in the future. Once HR is put on notice of this situation happening then they KNOW that Manager B could be a risk for them in the future. If someone else has an incident with Manager B in the future and complains to HR or files a lawsuit against the company, then HR CANNOT deny that they knew nothing of Manager B's proclivities. It would be in the record -- and documents would be produced if it went so far as a lawsuit -- that show the employer had knowledge of a prior event and should have known Manager B may act inappropriately in the future.
How does going to HR help the OP? Reporting may help the company avoid liability, but how does it help the OP?
OP's responsibility should be to himself, not the company. If reporting to HR helps him, go for it. if he is concerned about it hurting his career, I would let it go for now.
-
You're correct that the function of HR is to gather as much information as possible, assess the risk of claims against the company, and protect the company from future claims. However, it's not just about the intern who's about to leave and the employee whose contract is almost up. It is about every single other person who interacts with Manager B now or in the future. Once HR is put on notice of this situation happening then they KNOW that Manager B could be a risk for them in the future. If someone else has an incident with Manager B in the future and complains to HR or files a lawsuit against the company, then HR CANNOT deny that they knew nothing of Manager B's proclivities. It would be in the record -- and documents would be produced if it went so far as a lawsuit -- that show the employer had knowledge of a prior event and should have known Manager B may act inappropriately in the future.
How does going to HR help the OP? Reporting may help the company avoid liability, but how does it help the OP?
OP's responsibility should be to himself, not the company. If reporting to HR helps him, go for it. if he is concerned about it hurting his career, I would let it go for now.
I didn't say that going to HR helps the OP's husband. I think everyone here pretty much agrees that there is no personal benefit to the OP's husband in reporting this. OP says that the reason her husband is considering reporting this is to benefit/protect other people down the road, so that other people at this company do not get victimized by Manager B in the future; if there are any similar prior claims against Manager B, then husband's reporting would also help to support those claims. That is a very admirable/noble principle. But only the OP's husband can decide if that principle is worth the potential risk to his career.
-
Given that OP has said there is no HR at her SO's workplace, some of this (otherwise good?) advice is moot.
My .02: reporting/flagging is generally a good principle. It does make a difference to have this stuff on record and for people to be on alert that Manager B might be predatory; it's not unusual for predators to also be well-liked and well-respected people.
It's also true that these situations are fraught and risky for all involved, and that some measure of self-protection is also likely a good idea.
My suggestion would be to go to Manager A and have a conversation something like:
"So, you now I really love my work, and this field, and I really appreciate all the encouragement you have given me. You also know that I really like Manager B; I especially appreciate the way he has...[fill in the blank accomplished something or demonstrated leadership or whatever].
Something weird happened the other night that I'm still feeling a little uncomfortable about, and I feel like I should tell you about it, because I'm just not sure how to handle it."
[Describe incident honestly, but stop where SO decides what he was going to do--get MB extra drunk. So something like, "intern and I were here late that night drinking with MB. I stayed late to make sure intern would get home ok, and had paced myself so I wasn't too drunk. MB did [xyz], which I thought was pretty weird, and then I started wondering if he was switching drinks? It was all really weird, and I just got myself out of there as soon as I could."]
Then I would finish by saying something about how I will be acting in the future, based on this incident. So, "I don't know if MB was just so drunk he had no idea what he was doing, or if this kind of thing has happened before, but I was pretty uncomfortable, and wanted to make sure that I had documented what happened just in case. I know that if I want to continue working here, I'll need to be able to work with MB, and I am ok with that. I just wanted to make sure I'd done my due diligence about this."
Even handling it in this low-key way, SO needs to be aware that there may be some weirdness if indeed he does work with MB again and be ok handling that (probably he knows this already), and that, depending on the work culture and how important MB is to the company, SO may indeed be subtly or not-so-subtly discouraged from working there in the future and there may be other points against him in the industry. Personally, I'd be ok with both of those things, hoping that my own ethics and reputation in the industry over time would win out, or that I would be willing to switch careers if necessary down the road. But obviously those risks may not be worth it to everyone.
Ditto the comments to document even if SO decides not to report, in case of future exposure. And ditto to the behind-the-scenes warnings to future interns et al about drinking too much with MB. +1 to the comment that women are very familiar with this way of communicating about dangers when it's too risky to come forward in other ways.
If you're not familiar with the case, you might be interested in some of the conversations that took place here in Canada recently around the Jian Ghomeshi case. There was massive workplace and personal sexual harassment that was exposed, and a lot of discussion about how things should have been handled. My own perspective is that documentation and reporting on record--even if in the short term the experience sucks--helps in the future not only to expose the predator but also to expose the way people around the predator facilitated his actions and covered things up. Ghomeshi was acquitted, the system sucks for all kinds of reasons. But his reputation is done, lots of people were fired, women have been galvanized, and the workplace now has a better functioning policy and is on high alert for other problems to handle better. All important gains IMHO.
Good luck; these are really difficult situations and I wouldn't wish them on anybody.
-
You're correct that the function of HR is to gather as much information as possible, assess the risk of claims against the company, and protect the company from future claims. However, it's not just about the intern who's about to leave and the employee whose contract is almost up. It is about every single other person who interacts with Manager B now or in the future. Once HR is put on notice of this situation happening then they KNOW that Manager B could be a risk for them in the future. If someone else has an incident with Manager B in the future and complains to HR or files a lawsuit against the company, then HR CANNOT deny that they knew nothing of Manager B's proclivities. It would be in the record -- and documents would be produced if it went so far as a lawsuit -- that show the employer had knowledge of a prior event and should have known Manager B may act inappropriately in the future.
How does going to HR help the OP? Reporting may help the company avoid liability, but how does it help the OP?
OP's responsibility should be to himself, not the company. If reporting to HR helps him, go for it. if he is concerned about it hurting his career, I would let it go for now.
Going to HR absolutely does not help the OP's career and I don't think anybody has thought it would. The reason to go to HR is out of a moral obligation to publicize what he believes is predatory behavior. If it was clearly predatory behavior (like him seeing the manager try to roofie the intern) and not possibly a bad drunken night by the manager that will never happen again, I would think he would be morally obligated to blow the whistle despite the likely harm to his career.
-
I'm not a lawyer, but I really doubt any crimes could be proven against Manager B. We can only hope that they already have a similar allegation against him and are more likely to believe SO because of it.
Whoa, none of this is about reporting a CRIME. This is a matter of CIVIL law.
The poster above me mentioned going to the police.
-
I'm not a lawyer, but I really doubt any crimes could be proven against Manager B. We can only hope that they already have a similar allegation against him and are more likely to believe SO because of it.
Whoa, none of this is about reporting a CRIME. This is a matter of CIVIL law.
The poster above me mentioned going to the police.
Oh, my bad! I read the post before yours and then a big time gap before I read yours and didn't put them together. Sorry :-)
-
That was me mentioned the police. There's a lot of talk on the thread about Manager B possibly being a serial sexual predator. If so, it is probably beyond the capacity of his employer to deal with appropriately and going to the police is the correct response (see: Catholic church and abusive priests).
If its' just an otherwise law-abiding person getting drunk and gropey with other drunk people in the wee small hours. probably not for the police.
I don't know which it is. Other commentators on this thread don't know which it is. I suspect OP's SO doesn't know which it is, but he needs to make up his mind and act accordingly. If he goes to anyone in the company, I strongly suspect that it will not do anyone any good and could well do him harm. The alternative, if he feels strongly enough, is the police, which again may not do anyone any good. His call.
-
That was me mentioned the police. There's a lot of talk on the thread about Manager B possibly being a serial sexual predator. If so, it is probably beyond the capacity of his employer to deal with appropriately and going to the police is the correct response (see: Catholic church and abusive priests).
If its' just an otherwise law-abiding person getting drunk and gropey with other drunk people in the wee small hours. probably not for the police.
I don't know which it is. Other commentators on this thread don't know which it is. I suspect OP's SO doesn't know which it is, but he needs to make up his mind and act accordingly. If he goes to anyone in the company, I strongly suspect that it will not do anyone any good and could well do him harm. The alternative, if he feels strongly enough, is the police, which again may not do anyone any good. His call.
Yeah but like...when you report somebody to the police you need to accuse them of something that is a crime. The guy sounds like a creep and may well have committed a crime if SO didn't get the intern to leave, but what crime do you want SO to report Manager B to the police for?
-
I specifically said that he didn't drink anything after he realized Manager B was (clumsily) trying to switch drinks with him.
This part confused me. What was he testing? His theory that the manager was switching drinks?
Yes, he was testing the theory that Manager B was trying to switch drinks with him. The drinks had already been poured earlier in the evening, and Manager B was still trying to pressure SO to drink more at that point.
What did he mean by he was lucky the elevator doors shut? That he would have been molested otherwise? Or that there would be a fight?
I think he meant lucky in that there would have been a big, uncomfortable confrontation of some sort. Either Manager B (who he described to me that night as "handsy") would have forced a fight of some sort or he would have forced a very awkward...conversation? which would make working in such a small office together uncomfortable.
To clarify another point that seems to be confusing people: SO's plan to get Manager B drunk wasn't him trying to force drinks into Manager B. There were already drinks poured from earlier in the evening and he was sort of using them as a shield. Like, "Hey, instead of wrestling/fighting, let's have another drink." Also, he assessed Manager B as already being pretty much blackout drunk and, since Manager B was not letting him leave easily, hoped that he would pass out soon so that he could leave without a weird or awkward confrontation. As it was, we now know that apparently Manager B passed out in the office amidst the liquor bottles. (And if you think that will hurt his career, it won't. As long as you can still do your job well, you're fine.) Escaping quickly to the elevator was a last ditch effort to get away, and only something he did because Manager B was so persistent and determined to force a confrontation of some sort.
As I said before, like most men, SO isn't used to dealing with harassers. This might seem clumsily handled to those of us who are, but it was what he could think of at the time, trying to balance personal safety and career aspirations. How many women have tried to get a potential rapist too drunk to perform? My guess is lots.
-
I'm not a lawyer, but I really doubt any crimes could be proven against Manager B. We can only hope that they already have a similar allegation against him and are more likely to believe SO because of it.
Whoa, none of this is about reporting a CRIME. This is a matter of CIVIL law.
Without expressing any view on the likelihood of criminal process being pursued by the police or by the prosecutorial authorities, and also without expressing any view of the likelihood of a conviction being obtained if the same were pursued, it does appear that the original poster's posts, if broadly construed, arguably contain allegations of criminal misconduct, which most of the replies appear to have overlooked. Obviously, criminal law is different in every jurisdiction, but I was especially concerned by these aspects of the original story:
SO was getting increasingly weirded out by Manager B's behavior and, since the guy was making it hard for him to leave, decided to try to get Manager B so drunk that he passed out. ... SO ended up pushing him away a few times, sort of ran to the elevators. (He told me it was "a lucky thing" they closed before Manager B got there.) ...
Most of it he brushed off as just drunken behavior, until the Manager wouldn't let him go ...
(Emphasis added.)
The original post is subject to multiple interpretations (and the lack of clarity might be due to the fact that we are receiving the story through an intermediary rather than from the source), but reading it broadly, it sounds as though "the Manager" gave the impression that the original poster's "SO" was not free to leave the event, either by implying that the latter would be met with physical force if he attempted to leave, or perhaps actually attempting to use, or using, some physical force (after all, if the Manager didn't attempt to use physical force, the SO wouldn't have needed to "push[] him away a few times")
Some posters may have interpreted the perceived detention as being only in the mind of the SO, rather than credibly based on actions by the Manager, but the balance of the posts weigh against that interpretation for two reasons: (1) the SO was apparently so concerned for his safety that he felt that attempting to render the Manager unconscious was the only easy way to physically escape the situation rather than simply walking out the door at any time (many posters have said that this reflects badly on the SO, but to me, it suggests that the SO felt very scared), and (2) the original poster states that her SO is "not used to the signals of imminent sexual harassment the way we ladies tend to be", which suggests to me that the feeling of detention was based on very clear and articulable signs of danger rather than existing only in the mind of the SO. Now, I agree that the original posts were not clear about exactly what happened that night, but that is because (1) we are receiving a hearsay account of the events, and (2) this post was written for the purpose of eliciting workplace advice from an internet forum, not for convincing the police to obtain a warrant for arrest, or for convincing the state to prosecute, or for convincing a jury or judge to convict.
Based on my analysis of the original posts, and keeping in mind what I bolded and underlined above and how I am not expressing any view of the likelihood of charges, prosecution, or conviction, there are arguably a few crimes that may have been committed by "the Manager". First, detaining the SO by means of causing him to feel fear (even without actually committing violence against him) is likely to be a crime itself in most or all jurisdictions. By way of example, in California, false imprisonment committed without "violence, menace, fraud, or deceit" is a misdemeanor punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and or one year in jail or both. CA Penal Code ("CPC") § 237(a). This crime can be committed without any physical restraint, because "the restraint may be accomplished by words or acts that the individual fears to disregard". People v. Babich, 14 Cal App 4th 801, 808 (1993) (citations and internal quotation marks omitted).
Secondly, putting aside for a moment the proposition that the Manager could be guilty of a crime even if he didn't use force against the SO, it actually sounds like the Manager either used or attempted to use force (either of which is potentially a crime). Specifically, the OP says that the SO "push[ed] [the Manager] away a few times". It is difficult to understand why the Manager would need to be pushed away unless he either touched the SO first (which would potentially be battery by the Manager, see CPC § 242) or gave the impression (e.g. by reaching forward) the he was imminently about to use force against SO and SO reacted to avoid the same (which would potentially be assault by the Manager, see CPC § 240). Neither of these crimes requires a showing of specific intent, People v. Williams, 26 Cal4th 779, 788 (Supreme Ct 2001), and voluntary intoxication is unlikely to be a defence.
The original poster and some respondents comment on the lack of corroborating evidence for the allegations, but in most jurisdictions, corroboration is technically not necesary to obtain a conviction for any of the crimes just mentioned. Throughout the United States and Canada, the general rule (although it has some exceptions) is that "[a] conviction can rest upon the testimony of a single credible witness". Minnesota v. Goggleye, No A15-0125, 2016 Minn App Unpub LEXIS 42 at *10 (MN Ct App Jan 11, 2016) (collecting cases). If the policy of the law were otherwise, it would be impossible for a great deal of crimes to be tried.
Now, I stress again that I express no view on whether it is worth talking to the police about these matters, or about whether the police would pursue the allegations, or about whether a prosecutor would take carriage of the proceedings, or about whether a jury or judge would return a conviction. I am not making any suggestion of speaking to the police, to the prosecutorial authorities, or taking any other such steps. I express no view on any of these matters, especially since we are reading only a hearsay account of this story and my analysis involves heavily reading between the lines. The only reason I've made this post is to comment on some allegations contained in the original post that, on their face, seemed potentially serious, and that seriousness may have been overlooked by other posts. Once again though, I express no view on whether the state should be engaged with respect to this matter.
-
Cathy, I think the criminality of the incident was overlooked because the OP gave no indication that they were considering criminal charges or asked any advice as to whether this incident was criminal in nature.
-
whoa! Hope I don't run into any of the posters after midnight!
Do I ever when drinking;
behave aggressively,
act as beer bully,
attempt to engage others in competitive sports
drink too much
check all the above!
Do I ever;
drink with coworkers,
talk to coworkers about drinking
not a chance.
OP, from what I read it sounds like your SO is into the early part of his career, this may be one of the worse incidents he will experience with a coworker/superior, but it wont be the last. As another male I too would have felt uncomfortable in this situation and it sounds like he did the best thing(get the intern away and got out). Going forward your SO could quietly tell an HR/partner/manager A about the situation just so they know, not so much of "I want him fired/demoted" attitude. He should also maintain strict professionalism in the office, especially around manager B(who may also be a little nervous about what your SO will say). Personally, (and I am a little older, seen stuff, and have an FU money attitude), I would maybe, when he is with manager B out of earshot of others, say something to make lite of the situation like "I'll wrestle you now that I am sober!" or "Want to fight now that you don't have your liquid courage?" That would be pretty bold and something I might do but maybe he can come up with something he is comfortable with. Other than that there is pretty much nothing he can do, brush it off and just keep working; as others said leave with the first group of people at the after work parties and just keep doing well.
-
This is so weird to me. I might just be a very happy drunk, but I don't do things like this when drunk. I just spell things written on my glass and tell ppl about my fave things and ask them about their weekend.
I think the best thing would be to write everything down now, clearly. Not just for legal reasons or documentation, but to help SO feel that this is real and really happened. I like to write out two versions, a dry account of actions and one with the thoughts and feelings I had.
And then try to comfort and support your SO, OP. Dealing w trauma like this is really hard and ppl tend to blame themselves, even if they logically know they're not responsible. If you can, try to be supportive and listen to what he's saying.
I can't give any advice about the legal/employment options. But it's up to him whether he feels comfortable reporting. Just try to be supportive no matter what. It's not his responsibility to catch a predator - he didn't sign up to be bait and he didn't get training to deal w this kind of trickery.
I would also say that ppl I've known (and my own experience) who have tried to confront an abuser or recreate a scary situation are often disappointed that it doesn't give them the sense of control that they were looking for. If the manager really is manipulative enough to switch drinks, a second meeting off of company turf is unlikely to convince him of anything. Is SO looking for an affirmation of what the manager did? Is he trying to convince the manager not to do this again? Is he testing whether this manager will act similarly again? Learn warning signs? Get confirmation from a third person at the meeting? What is the goal in continued contact, esp as he will leave the company soon?
Another option may be to find out if there's an LGBT+ group in your workplace. I'm a lesbian, so I'm not much familiar w how the gay men in such a group would be able to help/support him, but this does read as weirdly homophobic in addition to the sexual pressure. They may be able to give a unique view on male violence towards men, be aware of a history that this manager has w other staff or at least be able to warn other men about these slurs being used.
Just so much concern and sympathy to you and your so. stay strong and safe.
-
OP, my thoughts are with you and your SO as you figure out your path here.
Most of us agree that B's behavior was off. Whether it was drunken over-the-top foolishness or intentionally preditory is not 100% clear. However, I'm certainly glad I wasn't in your SO's position and tend to think the latter is more likely.
Unfortunately, there's no perfect ending. If your SO wants to stay with the company, he's choosing to stay with a company that (knowingly or not) fosters an environment where B can thrive. If he reports the events, he will likely be unwelcome. If he doesn't report, he will feel uncomfortable too.
Unless B is known to be leaving the company in the very near future, the only solution that makes long-term sense is for your SO to move on to another company or start his own business, regardless of whether he decides to report anything. He should also send himself or you an email NOT on the company server that documents the night's events. This way he'll have a timestamped record that he can use if/when he decides to report.
If he doesn't report, he'll worry about others falling victim to B. If he does report, things will not be easy for your SO and there will likely be repercussions. It stinks. Time will heal these repercussions as more people realize that B truly isn't the great guy that everyone thought he was, but it might take a long, long, time.
-
Maybe wait until another job is secured and then report it? You all would then have little to lose from upsetting the manager, and there wouldn't be an appearance of an ulterior motive people could latch on to question your SO's claim. This advice is based on my wife's experience at work with a drunk manager (though it was during work, she wasn't drinking and there were other witnesses). Even being in a much stronger position than your SO is, she was still unjustly punished by the managers and lost her job.