Work Idleness

[dragonwalker]

I have been working as a business analyst for the past 8 months at a somewhat large regional credit union and about 3 years before that in another back office support role. I came from about 8 years of experience working in branches at a major national bank. The nature of the work in my role has sometimes made me uneasy.

Before I took on this position all of the work I've had before was largely task based in that there was almost a never ending backlog of things to do so in theory I'm never really done with anything. At times this work was reasonable and at others busy and taxing. When I first started this role there was no defined training plan or some never ending ongoing task, the nature of the work is project based and once a project is completed our involvement in it largely ends. In theory that sounds great except that in the time I've been in my role I find myself often with nothing to do.

I have managed to get involved in numerous projects and have helped to get certain tasks done and I'm happy to have contributed but these tasks are not particularly time consuming and certainly not something that require 8 hours a day to complete. I am the most junior person in our department and newest to the role so I'm sure part of this is the fact that I'm new. As we move from different projects my manager has taken time to review some new concepts and tools. I haven't talked directly about this with my coworkers but my sense is that yes they have more to do than I do but certainly also not enough to occupy a full days worth of "work" day in and day out.

I have been in positions many times where I've reached out to my manager regarding my "capacity" to help with other tasks and mostly I've been told that some project will be starting shortly or if there isn't something for awhile than I'll be given some busy work that really is meaningless. I was told coming into the role that at my current level I would be assisting in many projects until eventually leading some of my own.

I get that but with all the idle time I feel bad sometimes not doing anything. I've reached out to my coworkers numerous times and they've said that there isn't anything for me to help with. On occasion I'll get a task from them that is quick to complete. Fortunately I've recently looked into and my company approved and paid for a certification program for BAs so at least I can be claiming to read and study for the exam that accompanies it which I am doing but it's not like I can be doing that all day. The exam has a lot of theoretical knowledge which some can be of use and the exam itself is not a requirement of my position. I get along quite well with my manager and I think overall I'm under good management at different levels.

My manager and VP which we communicate pretty regularly has never expressed any dissatisfaction with what I am or not contributing and it is clear that there is much for me to learn. I can not imagine they also believe that I'm busy with work much. Nonetheless I am always avaibile and try to maintain an attitude of willingness to learn and work. I was thinking perhaps this might be some kind of norm in certain work areas in a company? I have a close friend who was also promoted around the same time I was to project management at the same company with similar experience, the role is different but shares many overlapping skills and responsibilities and I'm she also told me she faces large spans of time where there is nothing to do.

My question really is have other people experienced this and what is the best thing to do to make use of my time so that this dead space time isn't wasted? I want to be able to advance in my career in the future and aside from this working on my MBA towards that but I often feel when I'm at work not doing anything for large segments of the day I'm holding myself back. Is this just something I have to deal and "doing my time"? 

[lutorm]

Maybe think of it as taking it easy and recharging so when the sh#t hit the fan at some point, you won't be burned out and resentful?

[ATtiny85]

Keep learning and seeking training. My position has a never ending backlog of trying to improve our documentation.

Can you learn more about what others are doing? Cross training by informal interactions could give you a better idea of what possibilities the future holds.

What you are experiencing is not uncommon. I am amazed to learn some folks four or even five job grades higher than me have little to do.

[lucenzo11]

I work for a consulting firm where we have to track all our time for billing to clients and when you don't have work then it looks bad since then you are billing the company. Some tips I've picked up along the way to help stay busy:

- Ask for more work from manager and coworkers. Seems like you are already doing this so good job.
- Network with coworkers, chat them up. Delegation is hard for some people and they don't want to trust others, but once they see you do good work, they are more likely to come back to you in the future.
- Ask for feedback. Similar to above, some people don't like to say if you messed something up. If you ask, they may tell you so that you can improve. I'm not saying that you did anything wrong, but if someone suddenly stops giving you work then this is a good way to try to reconcile if there is a problem.
- Pursue any company training. It's better to charge the company to learn something than to charge them for nothing. Seems like you are already trying to do this.
- Look for ways to improve processes. You seem like you have aspirations to move up in this company so being able to bring ideas on how to make things better should help you in thinking about bigger picture. This may not help with your immediate work drought but might help for the future.
- Ask your manager if you can talk to other managers and see if they need any short term help. They may not go for it if there is some big project coming in soon for you, but this could help you get exposure to other groups and help with networking.

That's all I have for now, but I'll respond if I think of any more. Seems like you are doing a lot of this already and might just be in a true drought for a while.

[Raenia]

It's totally normal in many fields to not be busy all the time.  My work group tends to go in cycles, from very busy to very slow.  We keep staffing levels up so we can handle the busy periods, but that means in the slow periods there is a lot of down time.  If that is the norm in your workplace, then your coworkers may be telling the truth when they say they have nothing for you to work on.  In slow periods, I try to focus on housekeeping tasks (filing, organizing my area, etc), training if available, socializing/networking with others if they are also not busy, and then not feeling bad about listening to music or watching videos, or even reading a book (usually online).  Not all jobs are designed to keep you busy all the time.

Of course, you'll want to do some sleuthing to make sure that's really the expectation at your workplace, but don't be surprised if it is.

[jrhampt]

Yep, normal.  My advice is to enjoy it and to use the time to learn new skills.  If your company gives tuition reimbursement, it may also be a good time to start a graduate degree.  I've gotten a couple of master's degrees, gone through certification processes, and read lots of tech manuals in slow times.

[dragonwalker]

Thank you all for the information. In the back of my mind I kind of felt that my situation isn't highly unusual and even in my previous departments and work when I thought I was busier now that I think of it there was also a fair amount of down time but perhaps not feeling it as much as I was in the office and that gives me the impression of "working" since I'm physically there. At the moment until we transition to a hybrid schedule I am only 1 day in the office so mostly alone at home.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Pretty typical in my experience. I moved to the analytical side (from the production side) of my industry several years ago. At first, I loved having the down time, but quickly got bored and felt constrained, still expected to put my 8-9 hours/day in the office even when I went whole weeks with nothing much to do. Eventually I left, and starting working for a consulting firm, but that wasn't a good fit either. This January I went back to my old employer, in a similar role, with the major difference being that I am now 100% remote. So now I get productive work done around the house when I don't have much to do at work. Or I play card games with my kids while they're home for the summer. We spent last week in the NC mountains, and I didn't have to take any vacation time to do it. I worked about 4 hours a day, and we hiked, swam, and just relaxed the rest of the time. Best job I've ever had. And I'm absolutely kicking ass at work. I'm responsive and get shit done immediately when there's work to do. But I'm no longer hostage when there's no work.

[Eurotexan]

I started a new job about 6 months ago and am in the same boat. My previous job was non stop and frankly overwhelming but I got used to it and thought it was the norm. Now I'm in a new role I can see how unhealthy my previous workload was and I'm trying to enjoy the downtime although I can't shake the guilt. Like you my manager is happy with my work as are my team mates so, as others have pointed out, maybe this is just how some jobs are. I am 80% remote so that definitely helps as I can do work around the house when I have little to do. I feel myself slowly adapting and am trying really hard to enjoy the downtime rather than feel guilty. Easier said than done!

[LightStache]

It's rare that I've had a goldilocks balance of being productively busy for exactly a full work day. My current position tends to have more downtime and that's a deliberate choice. I feel some inherent guilt about it still, no doubt from an American puritan upbringing. But the culture where I work values busyness irrespective of productivity, so I'm also concerned that I could be judged negatively for it.

Having said that I learned long ago not to announce my availability for a few reasons. 1) You get assigned this shit tasks that other people have put off. 2) It makes you look unimportant. 3) You won't be available for more interesting things that come along.

So as much as I don't like being idle at work, I accept it as better than the alternative and try to make the most of it.

[Midwest_Handlebar]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but use the down time to work on side hustles. They are paying your salary if you work 10 hours per week or 70 so you might as well be productive and speed up your time to FIRE. I personally have no ethical qualms with this approach as long as you're available when needed.

[affordablehousing]

I've struggled with this. I've felt for years that I've competed with others over how little we do. What a depressing competition. I'm slowly coming around to the idea that life is both long and short, and despite the ideas of some on this forum that you just grit your teeth til you get off the ride, I have not given up hope that there is greater happiness out there and some folks do indeed find work they love. It may require, not just a course correction but an entire about face. I have just come to realize that. I hope you find ways not to squander your time here and find fulfillment.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but use the down time to work on side hustles. They are paying your salary if you work 10 hours per week or 70 so you might as well be productive and speed up your time to FIRE. I personally have no ethical qualms with this approach as long as you're available when needed.

When I was stuck in the office with downtime a few years ago, I used my free time to earn extra $ by signing up for reward bonuses on credit card and manufacturing spending through buying/reselling ebay gold coins and gift cards. I cleared an extra $10K one year doing that.

[LightStache]

I've struggled with this. I've felt for years that I've competed with others over how little we do. What a depressing competition. I'm slowly coming around to the idea that life is both long and short, and despite the ideas of some on this forum that you just grit your teeth til you get off the ride, I have not given up hope that there is greater happiness out there and some folks do indeed find work they love. It may require, not just a course correction but an entire about face. I have just come to realize that. I hope you find ways not to squander your time here and find fulfillment.

There's also a third way which is to just be stoic about work -- no fulfillment and no gritting of teeth. My dad was like that, at least he claimed to be. On this forum there are at least a few posters who view work as simply trading labor for money, a neutral transaction, and they're fine with that.

After being completely disappointed by my dream job and then trying a few others, I don't hold out much hope that I'll find one that I love. But I do still have a small sliver of hope that my perspective could change after a long sabbatical starting in 2027. For now I'm just focused on being as stoic as possible, doing what I need to do to realize my new dream job, FIRE. :D

[E.T.]

I've worked a few jobs where the workload was flood or famine depending on project start dates. When the workload was light, we did more networking, caught up on annual training and looked for additional leadership training type opportunities or relevant conferences. Quite a few of us also read books at those times, some read leadership or management books but some just read fun books. A few people signed up for masters programs and would chip away at classes in between projects. That can be very stressful though if an unexpected flood workload happens because they still had to complete their classwork to not waste the investment.

All that being said, those jobs were a quick path to burn out for me because the heavy workload periods were insane. I'd love to have a lighter workload job that's full remote, that seems like the dream. As long as your management is happy with you and you're getting enough done, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing your own thing with the rest of your time. I think there's stats showing that the average office worker is only productive for like three hours a day. So it's pretty normal from what I can tell.

[zolotiyeruki]

I've been there.  I had a job that, on average, took 2 hours per day to fulfill.  I was well-compensated, but was bored out of my mind.  At times it was so slow I looked foward to meetings, and I hate meetings.  When I complained about it to someone close to me, he said "invest in yourself."  I did a lot of what others have suggested:
--I did the best job I could on the tasks I had.
--company trainings (free cookies and soda and lunch!  But there were only so many classes to take)
--asking to help others with their work - I was young and inexperienced, and so had little to offer.  And nobody wanted me billing hours to their project
--a side gig.  I did a little of this, although I always felt a little guilty.  Looking back, as long as I was doing my job well, I shouldn't have worried.
--learning new skills (as part of the side gig) - I developed some technical skills that led to my current position.

And one regret:
--wasted a whole lot of time surfing the internet.  Sure, I learned a lot, but I also developed some bad work habits as a result, which I've had to unlearn.

If I had had the opportunity to WFH, it would have been awesome.

Eventually, I left that job at Megacorp to work at a startup.  Took a 25% cut in pay/benefits.  Cut my commute from 25-30 minutes down to <10.  Goodbye to all the idle time, but the work was stimulating, interesting, and fun.  And those skills I learned as part of my side gig?  Well, they've come very much in handy.

[chasingsnow]

I've been there.  I had a job that, on average, took 2 hours per day to fulfill.  I was well-compensated, but was bored out of my mind.  At times it was so slow I looked foward to meetings, and I hate meetings.  When I complained about it to someone close to me, he said "invest in yourself."  I did a lot of what others have suggested:
--I did the best job I could on the tasks I had.
--company trainings (free cookies and soda and lunch!  But there were only so many classes to take)
--asking to help others with their work - I was young and inexperienced, and so had little to offer.  And nobody wanted me billing hours to their project
--a side gig.  I did a little of this, although I always felt a little guilty.  Looking back, as long as I was doing my job well, I shouldn't have worried.
--learning new skills (as part of the side gig) - I developed some technical skills that led to my current position.

And one regret:
--wasted a whole lot of time surfing the internet.  Sure, I learned a lot, but I also developed some bad work habits as a result, which I've had to unlearn.

If I had had the opportunity to WFH, it would have been awesome.

Eventually, I left that job at Megacorp to work at a startup.  Took a 25% cut in pay/benefits.  Cut my commute from 25-30 minutes down to <10.  Goodbye to all the idle time, but the work was stimulating, interesting, and fun.  And those skills I learned as part of my side gig?  Well, they've come very much in handy.

This feels like it legit describes my life right now except its WFH, what would you have done differently if it was WFH?

[zolotiyeruki]

I've been there.  I had a job that, on average, took 2 hours per day to fulfill.  I was well-compensated, but was bored out of my mind.  At times it was so slow I looked foward to meetings, and I hate meetings.  When I complained about it to someone close to me, he said "invest in yourself."  I did a lot of what others have suggested:
--I did the best job I could on the tasks I had.
--company trainings (free cookies and soda and lunch!  But there were only so many classes to take)
--asking to help others with their work - I was young and inexperienced, and so had little to offer.  And nobody wanted me billing hours to their project
--a side gig.  I did a little of this, although I always felt a little guilty.  Looking back, as long as I was doing my job well, I shouldn't have worried.
--learning new skills (as part of the side gig) - I developed some technical skills that led to my current position.

And one regret:
--wasted a whole lot of time surfing the internet.  Sure, I learned a lot, but I also developed some bad work habits as a result, which I've had to unlearn.

If I had had the opportunity to WFH, it would have been awesome.

Eventually, I left that job at Megacorp to work at a startup.  Took a 25% cut in pay/benefits.  Cut my commute from 25-30 minutes down to <10.  Goodbye to all the idle time, but the work was stimulating, interesting, and fun.  And those skills I learned as part of my side gig?  Well, they've come very much in handy.

This feels like it legit describes my life right now except its WFH, what would you have done differently if it was WFH?

Knowing what I know now, I would have:
1) made sure all my work was up-to-date, completed as much as possible, and high-quality.  Make sure I'm not critical path on anything, and make sure my coworkers and management are aware of my project status.
2) periodically look for more opportunities for visibility with management (company was a forced-rank system, so management visibility had substantial weight)
3) recognize that I'm getting paid not for the number of hours I sit in the seat, but for the work I am producing.  And if Point 1 above is fully fulfilled, I shouldn't feel guilty about going for a walk (or run), playing a game with the kids, learning a new skill, or watching a TED talk.

The tricky part is to make sure that point #1 is airtight before allowing yourself to move to #3.  If #1 slips up, it gets easy for people to point to #3 (if they know it's happening) and say "chasingsnow is playing Minecraft instead of filing the TPS reports!"

[chasingsnow]

I've been there.  I had a job that, on average, took 2 hours per day to fulfill.  I was well-compensated, but was bored out of my mind.  At times it was so slow I looked foward to meetings, and I hate meetings.  When I complained about it to someone close to me, he said "invest in yourself."  I did a lot of what others have suggested:
--I did the best job I could on the tasks I had.
--company trainings (free cookies and soda and lunch!  But there were only so many classes to take)
--asking to help others with their work - I was young and inexperienced, and so had little to offer.  And nobody wanted me billing hours to their project
--a side gig.  I did a little of this, although I always felt a little guilty.  Looking back, as long as I was doing my job well, I shouldn't have worried.
--learning new skills (as part of the side gig) - I developed some technical skills that led to my current position.

And one regret:
--wasted a whole lot of time surfing the internet.  Sure, I learned a lot, but I also developed some bad work habits as a result, which I've had to unlearn.

If I had had the opportunity to WFH, it would have been awesome.

Eventually, I left that job at Megacorp to work at a startup.  Took a 25% cut in pay/benefits.  Cut my commute from 25-30 minutes down to <10.  Goodbye to all the idle time, but the work was stimulating, interesting, and fun.  And those skills I learned as part of my side gig?  Well, they've come very much in handy.

This feels like it legit describes my life right now except its WFH, what would you have done differently if it was WFH?

Knowing what I know now, I would have:
1) made sure all my work was up-to-date, completed as much as possible, and high-quality.  Make sure I'm not critical path on anything, and make sure my coworkers and management are aware of my project status.
2) periodically look for more opportunities for visibility with management (company was a forced-rank system, so management visibility had substantial weight)
3) recognize that I'm getting paid not for the number of hours I sit in the seat, but for the work I am producing.  And if Point 1 above is fully fulfilled, I shouldn't feel guilty about going for a walk (or run), playing a game with the kids, learning a new skill, or watching a TED talk.

The tricky part is to make sure that point #1 is airtight before allowing yourself to move to #3.  If #1 slips up, it gets easy for people to point to #3 (if they know it's happening) and say "chasingsnow is playing Minecraft instead of filing the TPS reports!"

Yeah that's a super great point, I think ultimately one of the other learning points is some people do really well when they have 1-2 hours of work and can be very granular and self directed with their time. Others (i.e me) do not so well with unstructured time, and increased boredom, its one of the reasons I am contemplating a shift from office work to the trades to find something that better alligns with my strengths. Appreciate the tips :)

[use2betrix]

As a manager of 25-30 employees, sometimes you just need to “keep busy” while under the radar. Your boss may not always have stuff he really needs help with, but needs you on deck for when the time comes.

You are doing the right thing but reaching out but I’d also realize there is a fine line between being proactive and also seeming to be needed to be micromanaged, which can be a challenge for some bosses.

It’s hard to say based on your post, but it seems you’re doing all the right things. The above is just something to be conscious of. If my guys have down time I expect them to keep their nose down and at least appear busy doing stuff work related should other departments/management be around. I don’t need guys with computers out in the open blatantly devouring YouTube or hanging around the water cooler talking about how they have nothing to do. In my experience, I can always find some way to stay busy with work related stuff - be it reading documents, education, etc.

[Midwest_Handlebar]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but use the down time to work on side hustles. They are paying your salary if you work 10 hours per week or 70 so you might as well be productive and speed up your time to FIRE. I personally have no ethical qualms with this approach as long as you're available when needed.

When I was stuck in the office with downtime a few years ago, I used my free time to earn extra $ by signing up for reward bonuses on credit card and manufacturing spending through buying/reselling ebay gold coins and gift cards. I cleared an extra $10K one year doing that.

I bought and renovated 5 rental condos during the pandemic, and finished our basement. I would set up internet in the new condo, work for a few hours painting, flooring, electrical and then do my day job when I physically needed a break. I would turn my laptop volume up in case anyone pinged/called, but never had any complaints during this time. Also did the credit card/bank churning thing pretty hard... $10k per year in cash outs for multiple years.

[newco]

For anyone that feels this way, I highly suggest David Graeber's book Bullshit Jobs.  He outlines the sentiment you are feeling.  A lot of people feel this way about white collar work, and as the job openings increase for "Analyst" type jobs, you will see more threads like this pop up in the future. 

I find it so stupid that we are conditioned to always be working working working.  It causes burnout and depression, which can lead to much larger health issues.  What has led me to sleep easy at night is to view your employment as being paid for your knowledge, not necessarily the amount of working hours you put in.  If you show up in times of emergency or are willing to put in extra time to get tasks done (when reasonable), you will do better than most other employees.  Bosses want reliable, non drama causing people to work for them.  If you can do that, show up on time, and hold yourself accountable, that is half the battle.  The other half is luck...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs

[affordablehousing]

Interesting, several people had recommended Bullshit Jobs to me, and the premise serves me to a T. Thanks for raising that in this forum.

And to the person who renovated 6 houses during Covid while working, wow! That is impressive.

[Midwest_Handlebar]

Thanks, it was 3 1/1's and 2 2/1's condos, so not huge. 800sq on average with the basement being about the same size as well. It seems like a lot looking back as well, but i'm a glutton for punishment.

[brandon1827]

There's also a third way which is to just be stoic about work -- no fulfillment and no gritting of teeth. My dad was like that, at least he claimed to be. On this forum there are at least a few posters who view work as simply trading labor for money, a neutral transaction, and they're fine with that.

This is me exactly. I recall growing up everyone asking what I wanted to be, or what I wanted to do after the military/college, and I never really had a great answer because I never really cared too much about what I did...so long as I made a good living, could provide for my family, and made enough to enjoy the ride while also investing for the future. You only get one ride through life, so I've never been concerned with the work every minute/climb the corporate ladder model and have just focused more on work-life balance and doing the have-to items that kept my supervisors happy. Managing my time was always a perk in my mind...not a problem.

[MoneyTree]

Not uncommon at all.

It is definitely an opportunity to look for ways to improve your skills, either by taking on roles or projects that are not directly related to your role but you have some interest in.

You can also use this opportunity to work a side hustle, or invest in personal development. I was working a role like this about 10 years ago, and that is when I found MMM and dove headfirst into learning anything and everything I could about investments, optimized living, and retiring early. I literally could do enough to get the job done and satisfy my manager by working a total of about 2 hours a day. With the other hours, I became a FIRE nerd, devoured the entire back catalog of all the FIRE blogs, listened through all the podcasts, and optimized my life and finances as much as I could. There is a distinct "kink" in my net worth graph right around that time, when my stache started growing at a significantly higher rate.

Those few years of working a job with lots of downtime likely contributed more to my financial well-being than the most recent years of making 3x the salary than I did back then.

[dragonwalker]

Interesting feedback from a lot of people. I wasn't exactly sure what to expect half thinking I would be admonished for not being locked in constantly "working" although I had a strong feeling that was not the case.

As I mentioned yes I'm taking steps in the downtime to build up my skills through certification at work (which is a challenge in itself as the academic study of BA is dry as cardboard), working on schooling outside of work (MBA) and being present at work whenever I  am called upon.

I do have a few issues with what's happening right now. For one my pay and compensation is not the greatest about $70K + $20K over a few years in school expenses + a few thousand in special mortgage benefits+ standard benefits. I live in LA. Ironically it's not so much I'm spending to much, in fact I'm able to live just fine with that money from work + other money I get. The big one is I kind of feel my ample "idleness" may not necessarily go unnoticed and not sure if it could impact my future career growth. Especially as I feel my impact on my department and company is low although I've been here in this dept. about 9 months now. However my manager does remind me of my beneficial impact.   

I do want to grow into management and a higher paying position and have some trouble reconciling how I may "deserve" more if I'm in the situation I'm in now. Hopefully that makes sense and maybe I'm not perceiving things correctly.

Meanwhile I do recognize a lot of times people are promoted (especially management) on the basis of their soft and social skills so long as they still have a minimum competency level. I've always considered myself someone easy to work with and conscious about the team. I'm trying to network at work but it's challenging with our hybrid work schedule. Trying to attend social events and things like toastmasters. Meanwhile keeping in touch with old colleagues and managers and letting them know that I want to grow.

I do think the work my department does has a good potential to look good on resumes and can be talked up easily but just curious have others gone into positions specifically because it could help you in the next one after that?     

[Midwest_Handlebar]

I had a similar attitude as you earlier in my career. Got my MBA and a few professional certifications to boost my prospects and income. At a certain point you hit diminishing returns on your effort. I decided I needed to put any additional effort into diversifying my income. A scalable side hustle, not something tied to your employer/industry, can do wonders for your financial security in a short amount of time. Good luck.