Author Topic: Wind damage to roof - questions  (Read 1281 times)

secondcor521

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Wind damage to roof - questions
« on: October 12, 2021, 09:17:26 PM »
Hi all.

I have a house that is 17 years old with a standard roof with three tab shingles.

Over the past year, wind has damaged between 7 (my count) and 11/12 (roofer's count) shingle tabs.

I'm leaning towards repair.

Questions:

1.  The roofer (insurance claims adjuster as well, natch) says that the warranty on three tab shingles is 20 years.  Online source says 25 years.  Which is right, or does it vary?

2.  A couple of the missing tabs are within two or three courses of the ridge.  Roofer says that the ridge will need to be redone.  True?  False?  Questionable/it depends?

3.  How much is reasonable for replacing the 11/12 damaged shingles and replacing the ridge shingle tab things?  The involved part of the ridge is about 55 feet long.

Roofer treated me well last year when they just replaced two damaged shingles lower down.

Any other comments / advice welcome.

Syonyk

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2021, 10:11:17 PM »
I need to, like, actually meet up with you.  My first thought with a "wind damage" post was, "Huh, I wonder if that's in my neck of the woods."  Yup.  I'm down by Melba.
 And, sorry, I should have just offered to run the multimeter over.  Didn't need to box it up.  Would have been a good Ural ride.  Coffee one of these weekends over in Nampa?

(1) It depends on what you have on there, from who.  If you've no idea who the manufacturer, vendor, and installer are, you're unlikely to get much out of a warranty claim.

(2) I've never redone only some shingles, only a whole roof.  That high, it probably means stuff is starting to come loose and ought to be covered or redone.

(3) No idea, I've only ever helped replace full roofs.  If it's not that complex, it's a weekend project.  How many layers of shingles are up there?  If it's not too steep, it's not that bad to redo a roof, though I might wait until spring at this point.  If it's three layers of stapled down hell that crumbles into quarter sized fragments when you try to rip it up, it's a bit more than a weekend, even with a bunch of people.

You can probably tack new stuff on, but it's worth asking a roofer what they think about the condition of the shingles.  I've always been involved in just roof replacements - rip the shingles up, fix any bad sheeting, put new ones down in a single layer.

sonofsven

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2021, 07:00:18 AM »
1) It varies. Three tab is the "low end" shingle compared to "architectural" which tend to be thicker and stiffer.

3) Yes, if the shingles are that close to the ridge it will have to be removed just in those sections. Unless the entire ridge is cracking I think replacement would be limited to just the areas above the danaged shingles.

3) $800 is my professional Wild Ass Guess

GuitarStv

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2021, 07:39:21 AM »
My understanding is that shingle warranties are basically useless.  The manufacturer will usually provide replacement shingles, but most of the cost in roofing is in labour.  Roofing companies seem to fold and re-open under new names every 5-10 years so trying to enforce a contract with them is near impossible.

Fishindude

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2021, 11:08:52 AM »
If you've gotten 17 years out of a shingle roof in Idaho (hard winters), you are probably approaching the end of that roof's life, 15-20 years is pretty normal for shingle roofs.
It's no big deal for a skilled roofer to remove and patch back in new shingles to replace the damaged ones, and that might buy you another year or two.   Sounds like a days work at best, maybe $500 in labor and $1-200 in material, assuming a man-lift, etc. is not required.

I'd be budgeting for a total roof replacement in the next few years.

secondcor521

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2021, 12:08:46 PM »
Thanks all.

My question about lifespan was not about a warranty.  It was more about trying to figure if I should repair now and nurse the existing roof another three years, or just go ahead and bite the bullet and replace now - thus effectively eliminating the cost of this repair and applying it to the new roof.

I guess it's also about the vibe of the person who came out.  She seemed to be selling me more than serving me, and saying the shingles had a 20 year lifespan vs. a 25 year lifespan would tend to support that conclusion.  At the end of helping me, she mildly pressured me to contact my next door neighbor and recommend her company's services to them.  (They have wind damage as well.)

I'm inclined towards repair now and replace in about 3 years, especially if the repair estimate comes in under $1000.  Budgeting wise that would work well with my other financial plans, which involves college bills for another 3 years or so and possibly a bigger Roth conversion in about three years.

@Syonyk, I'm not all that social, but I remember your offer of the multimeter (thanks, I'm still OK).  PM me about coffee, or - here's a thought - make a post about a MMM Treasure Valley meetup.  I think there are at least a few others around and there have been rumblings of a meetup before.

There is only a single layer of shingles - it's the original roof, presumably installed by the original builder's subcontractor.  The shingles are probably from Lowe's or HD or Franklin Building Supply (a local building supply store).

I'm inclined towards replacement with architectural (I guess they also call them dimensional) shingles.

@Fishindude, I already have almost all of a bundle of shingles left from the previous repair, and they thought they'd have to order one more bundle.  No man-lift required I don't think - last time they sent out a crew of two people:  roofer dude and roofer assistant dude.

Syonyk

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2021, 12:30:45 PM »
How much is the roof replacement likely to cost?

$1000 is a good chunk of the way there for materials... I think?  I don't know roofer costs, I've always just helped people do it themselves in exchange for pizza.  If it's going to be expensive, you might see if standing seam is an option, that should last the rest of the life of your house.

Fishindude

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2021, 01:40:13 PM »
Roofing companies want to sell new roofs.   You need to find a good handyman or roofing tradesman that does some side work for cash if you want the repairs done cheaply.
Call the contractor sales rep at your locally owned lumber yard (not Lowes, Menards or Home Depot) and ask them for suggestions.

My last complete tear off and re-roof was $10k, a couple years ago.

sonofsven

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2021, 02:40:16 PM »
Can you get up there safely and take a look?

How many granules are still on the shingles?

Do they feel thin and brittle?

Are the broken shingles towards your prevailing wind storm patterns? Most likely yes, and you'll probably find a few more that need to be replaced.

Are they still tabbed (stuck) to the shingles below or do they lift up easily? If they repair is being done now it might be too cold to get them tabbed (although you do get some sun there). Your roofer might need too manually tab them (stick a few blobs of blackjack under each shingle, essentially). Otherwise the next windstorm will lift them up and probably break the old brittle shingles above.

Check all the penetrations for any failed or cracked flashings on plumbing vents, skylights, etc.

Short answer: If your shingles are super brittle, thin,  and devoid of granules then plan on a new roof sooner than later.

secondcor521

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2021, 03:20:30 PM »
@Syonyk, I'm expecting a number around $10K for tear-off down to the decking and then reroof with dimensional shingle.

So yeah, $1K would be 10% of a new roof, although I think it would buy me 3 years.  I actually expect them to come in under that number, but am not sure.  Basically just gaining intelligence here while I wait for the quotes.

I have an HOA (suburban Boise, they're everywhere) and I doubt they would let me do a standing seam roof.  It would be out of character as the rest of the subdivision has regular asphalt shingles.

@Fishindude, I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm not keen on taking the chance of a weekend roofer falling off my roof and suing me - savings aren't worth it at this point.  But yeah, I did get a bit of sales pressure vibe, although she did seem like they'd do whatever I wanted and were just giving friendly advice.

@sonofsven, yes, I've been up on my roof - twice yesterday.

I don't know how to describe how many granules are still on the shingles - I'd say 99% of them look like there is still 100% granule coverage, with a handful (maybe 20 to 30 over the whole roof) that have black seams or bare spots.

They do feel thin and brittle, but I've only tested the problematic ones.  I've left the ones that look fine alone.

Yes, the broken ones are mainly on a west-facing slope, which is in the direction of both the afternoon sun and the prevailing wind patterns, especially the bad windstorm we had a few months ago, which was when the damage occurred.

We already climbed up there twice - when I was up there I found 7 total.  The roofer lady found another five.  These are all of the nature of a single tab that has been sheared off horizontally at the base/top of the tab.

The problematic ones lift up easily.  Again, I didn't check the others, but I'd guess that they're stuck down just fine.

I understand your point about the cold, and I may have just waited too long.  I was originally waiting for the rush to die down after the windstorm, figuring lots of people would be calling and getting their roofs repaired.  I was then waiting a bit to see if any more got damaged (why call them out twice).  I was figuring it'd be good to get it done before winter snowfall, but maybe it'd be better to wait until spring?

I didn't see any issues around the flashing or roof vents, but maybe I'll get back up there and look more carefully.

I know the new roof is coming, but based on your questions I think it does have another few years in it.  That's probably some combination of rational thought with a dash of hopeful / wishful thinking thrown in.

sonofsven

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2021, 03:41:30 PM »
@Syonyk, I'm expecting a number around $10K for tear-off down to the decking and then reroof with dimensional shingle.

So yeah, $1K would be 10% of a new roof, although I think it would buy me 3 years.  I actually expect them to come in under that number, but am not sure.  Basically just gaining intelligence here while I wait for the quotes.

I have an HOA (suburban Boise, they're everywhere) and I doubt they would let me do a standing seam roof.  It would be out of character as the rest of the subdivision has regular asphalt shingles.

@Fishindude, I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm not keen on taking the chance of a weekend roofer falling off my roof and suing me - savings aren't worth it at this point.  But yeah, I did get a bit of sales pressure vibe, although she did seem like they'd do whatever I wanted and were just giving friendly advice.

@sonofsven, yes, I've been up on my roof - twice yesterday.

I don't know how to describe how many granules are still on the shingles - I'd say 99% of them look like there is still 100% granule coverage, with a handful (maybe 20 to 30 over the whole roof) that have black seams or bare spots.

They do feel thin and brittle, but I've only tested the problematic ones.  I've left the ones that look fine alone.

Yes, the broken ones are mainly on a west-facing slope, which is in the direction of both the afternoon sun and the prevailing wind patterns, especially the bad windstorm we had a few months ago, which was when the damage occurred.

We already climbed up there twice - when I was up there I found 7 total.  The roofer lady found another five.  These are all of the nature of a single tab that has been sheared off horizontally at the base/top of the tab.

The problematic ones lift up easily.  Again, I didn't check the others, but I'd guess that they're stuck down just fine.

I understand your point about the cold, and I may have just waited too long.  I was originally waiting for the rush to die down after the windstorm, figuring lots of people would be calling and getting their roofs repaired.  I was then waiting a bit to see if any more got damaged (why call them out twice).  I was figuring it'd be good to get it done before winter snowfall, but maybe it'd be better to wait until spring?

I didn't see any issues around the flashing or roof vents, but maybe I'll get back up there and look more carefully.

I know the new roof is coming, but based on your questions I think it does have another few years in it.  That's probably some combination of rational thought with a dash of hopeful / wishful thinking thrown in.
 

I don't think it's too late for repairs, they just need to be conscious of the shingles sticking. Have them check most of the west side shingles to make sure they're tabbed properly still.

secondcor521

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2021, 04:01:50 PM »
Update:

I've had four quotes, have tentatively ruled out two, and have questions about the other two:

The two I've ruled out:

1.  First quote was from the original company that repaired two shingles a year ago.  It ended up being $1100 because they asserted the need to replace the entire ridge cap, which they measured at 70ish feet.  I wasn't real keen on this option for a number of reasons:  (1) She didn't mail me back when I asked questions about the quote, (2) it feels like "go away" (or "just get a new roof already, cheapskate!" pricing, (3) the quote had some numerical discrepancies which jumped out at me.

2.  Third quote was from a guy who kept changing the appointment time on me - like three times in three days.  All reasonable and legit, but just was a bit annoying.  His bid came in at "about $600" and he asked me to call him and let him know if he *didn't* get the business just so he would know, I guess?

The two I'm still mulling over:

3.  Second quote was from a guy who was prompt, professional, thorough, helped me understand some additional problems with my roof (I have some nail pops / pull throughs on the back side).  Quote was emailed, prompt email replies.  Warrantied, fully insured, etc.  $600 bid, which is their minimum.

4.  Fourth quote was from a guy who says (a) he wouldn't recommend fixing the roof, (b) it'd be $600 if I did ask him to anyway.  This guy says he knows the insurance adjuster at my company, that I should just lower my homeowner's deductible now, wait for a windstorm to do a bit more damage, call him, and get myself a new roof for my deductible.  He suggested just getting a tube of caulk and hitting the few spots where there are exposed nails and/or felt (one tiny 1/8" x 4" spot) to get through this winter.  His point, which I can see, is that if I repair the dozen or so problematic shingles now, that just moves me further away from an insurance-covered roof replacement.

The cost of this last proposal is $5 (caulk) plus $1000 (deductible), vs. $600 (repair) plus $12,000 (roof replacement no deductible).  Obviously a big difference, but just talking with this last guy made me feel a bit dirty.  And then I thought,
 "Does this guy's willingness to skirt the rules on insurance imply anything about his willingness to cut corners on my roof?"  Although I'm not sure how different it is than when my (now ex-)wife and I would have high deductibles most years, but then switch to the low-deductible plans when we had kids.

So I'm mulling over the last two, leaning towards the last option if I can convince myself that it's ethical.  I like my homeowner's insurance company and don't want to take advantage of them.  But if their business model is that someone can have a high deductible while their roof ages from 2 years to 17 years, then can lower their deductible, get a new roof, then raise the deductible again, well, that's a bit of a quandary for me.

Opinions welcome.

(Oddly enough, an nice rain and windstorm right now in the valley.  And an earthquake this morning to boot.)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 04:23:56 PM by secondcor521 »

Fishindude

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Re: Wind damage to roof - questions
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2021, 06:21:06 AM »

So I'm mulling over the last two, leaning towards the last option if I can convince myself that it's ethical.  I like my homeowner's insurance company and don't want to take advantage of them.  But if their business model is that someone can have a high deductible while their roof ages from 2 years to 17 years, then can lower their deductible, get a new roof, then raise the deductible again, well, that's a bit of a quandary for me.

Opinions welcome.


Since opinions are welcome .....
Four quotes for something like this is ridiculous.

Quit wasting peoples time, make a decision and hire somebody to get repairs done.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!