Poll

If available to you, will you get a covid-19 vaccine in the next year?

Yes (liberal)
284 (66.4%)
Probably (liberal)
30 (7%)
No (liberal)
13 (3%)
Yes (conservative)
55 (12.9%)
Probably (conservative)
20 (4.7%)
No (conservative)
21 (4.9%)
I'm required to get a vaccine
2 (0.5%)
It's unsafe for me to get a vaccine
3 (0.7%)

Total Members Voted: 427

Author Topic: Will you get the vaccine?  (Read 26062 times)

legalstache

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #150 on: April 03, 2021, 04:56:33 PM »
My wife and I have gotten both Moderna doses. We got the second one about 3 weeks ago. We had zero side effects except for a sore arm for a day or two.

Omy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #151 on: April 03, 2021, 05:30:56 PM »
I'm getting my first dose next week. I didn't answer the poll because even though I'm a liberal, public health shouldn't be subject to partisan politics. That's how we ended up with 560,000 dead of COVID in a year.

It shouldn't be. When I started the poll, I was curious if Trump had poisoned his constituents against the vaccine. The only people I know who are not getting the vaccine are Trump loyalists.

Bibimbap

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #152 on: April 04, 2021, 05:10:53 AM »
I'm getting my first dose next week. I didn't answer the poll because even though I'm a liberal, public health shouldn't be subject to partisan politics. That's how we ended up with 560,000 dead of COVID in a year.

It shouldn't be. When I started the poll, I was curious if Trump had poisoned his constituents against the vaccine. The only people I know who are not getting the vaccine are Trump loyalists.
If that's what you wanted to find out why didn't you phrase it that way? This is a pointless exercise that doesn't prove anything.

Cranky

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #153 on: April 04, 2021, 07:58:13 AM »
I'd hazard a guess that most discussions on the internet are just interesting anecdota, which this thread has been.

But the overarching question of politics and willingness to get the vaccine has been answered by plenty of technically well done national polls - conservative Republicans are the most likely to say they won't get the vaccine.

ender

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #154 on: April 04, 2021, 08:04:59 AM »
I'll get it eventually, as a WFH young person I haven't really prioritized it though since... I'm about as minimal risk as anyone and it seems silly when there are so many people more at risk.

I think where I live the floodgates are starting to open though.

Omy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #155 on: April 04, 2021, 08:15:04 AM »
I didn't want to skew the poll. When I started this poll in December it seemed that my conservative friends were skeptical of the vaccine and my liberal friends were ready to get jabbed. These poll results are in line with what I've seen IRL. It would be interesting to see if conservatives are generally more likely to avoid new vaccines...or if they are particularly skeptical of THIS vaccine because the former president made such a big deal about covid being a hoax.

ender

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #156 on: April 04, 2021, 08:19:39 AM »
I didn't want to skew the poll. When I started this poll in December it seemed that my conservative friends were skeptical of the vaccine and my liberal friends were ready to get jabbed. These poll results are in line with what I've seen IRL. It would be interesting to see if conservatives are generally more likely to avoid new vaccines...or if they are particularly skeptical of THIS vaccine because the former president made such a big deal about covid being a hoax.

Everyone I know who is skeptical is skeptical because of the timeline on these vaccines, compared to normal timelines.


Sibley

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #157 on: April 04, 2021, 05:19:21 PM »
I was able to get an earlier slot, so got my shot this morning. The 1 dose J&J.

I have a mild headache, a mild fever, overall feel ok. Arm seems fine. Am parked on the couch with juice and tylenol and books and the occasionally the cat. Except she wants the blanket on me and I don't want the blanket on me, so then she gets mad and stalks off.

And frankly, if everyone is freaking out about how quickly these ones came out, just wait until all the others are converted to this type. No need to use chicken eggs = cheaper, faster processing I suspect.

spartana

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #158 on: April 04, 2021, 07:57:36 PM »
For those who have gotten “sick” from their vaccine:

Just a reminder that in clinical trials, a lot of the people who had reactions — including those who spiked a fever — were given the placebo.

I appreciate the reminder.

I've never had a vaccine reaction in my life and went to sleep comfortably 12 hours after the shot.  15 hours later I wake up shaking uncontrollably.

It's all in my head, right?

It’s not a value judgment. People who get a placebo effect aren’t weak-minded.

In one trial, there were four people who spiked fevers of up to 104.

Two of them had been given the placebo.

You had a reaction. It may not have been due to any active ingredient in the shot. But the reaction was real.

Edit: I say this as a person who got my first dose of Pfizer two days ago. I felt fatigue, nausea, and muscle aches, yesterday and today. This may or may not have been due to any active ingredient in the shot.
While I'm not disagreeing that the placebo effect can be strong, I do believe there is probably a lower case of that compared to real side effects when trying a new unknown vaccine. No one knows what to expect - if anything at all - so less likely to have a placebo effects. I know my own "covid arm" seemed to be a totally unexpected and unknown side effect (at least by me and seems somewhat rare) so most likely a "real" side effect from the vaccine. So it's possible most people are experiancing real side effects and I think it's important not to downplay them - especially for a new vaccine.

ETA: Curious to know if anyone else got covid arm/Moderna Arm too. It can be fairly mild or really nasty looking.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 07:59:09 PM by spartana »

MudPuppy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #159 on: April 04, 2021, 08:53:17 PM »
I had giraffe-like splotches on my upper arm about 5(?) days after my second Moderna dose. No pain and they went away after a day.

A440

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #160 on: April 04, 2021, 09:29:26 PM »
Got the Pfizer vaccine in December and January.  From the tens of thousands of people in the trials, I think we have a good idea that immediate side effects are generally rare.  Long term, we don’t have much data, but we don’t have much data on the long-term effects of COVID either.  I work in healthcare, so can’t stay home.  This gave me the best chance to avoid it myself and avoid passing it to others.  It’s not a guarantee, but the best way to get back to normal that we have.

Malcat

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #161 on: April 04, 2021, 09:31:41 PM »
For those who have gotten “sick” from their vaccine:

Just a reminder that in clinical trials, a lot of the people who had reactions — including those who spiked a fever — were given the placebo.

I appreciate the reminder.

I've never had a vaccine reaction in my life and went to sleep comfortably 12 hours after the shot.  15 hours later I wake up shaking uncontrollably.

It's all in my head, right?

It’s not a value judgment. People who get a placebo effect aren’t weak-minded.

In one trial, there were four people who spiked fevers of up to 104.

Two of them had been given the placebo.

You had a reaction. It may not have been due to any active ingredient in the shot. But the reaction was real.

Edit: I say this as a person who got my first dose of Pfizer two days ago. I felt fatigue, nausea, and muscle aches, yesterday and today. This may or may not have been due to any active ingredient in the shot.
While I'm not disagreeing that the placebo effect can be strong, I do believe there is probably a lower case of that compared to real side effects when trying a new unknown vaccine. No one knows what to expect - if anything at all - so less likely to have a placebo effects. I know my own "covid arm" seemed to be a totally unexpected and unknown side effect (at least by me and seems somewhat rare) so most likely a "real" side effect from the vaccine. So it's possible most people are experiancing real side effects and I think it's important not to downplay them - especially for a new vaccine.

ETA: Curious to know if anyone else got covid arm/Moderna Arm too. It can be fairly mild or really nasty looking.

On the flip side, the exact same reasons a side effect is more likely are the same reasons a placebo effect are even MORE likely. The more people think it could have unknown side effects, the more placebo effects they'll have. I would actually expect a rather dramatic increase in placebo effects for this over regular flu shots.

Incidentally, I inject myself monthly with a horrible, monstrous drug that hurts like a mutherfucker because it's a very large protein and I always get an angry red splotchy spot. The drug company acknowledges the pain as normal and this redness as a possible occurence, but it's not listed as a side effect, it's considered a normal, harmless physiological response to the injection. Some patients develop ongoing, persistent irritation at the injection site, and this is listed as a side effect, but not if it goes away within something like 48 hrs.

There are side effects, adverse reactions, and normal range physiological responses. It's possible that "covid arm" isnt considered a proper "side effect". But time will tell if it gets categorized as one, because you're right, not all of the side effects are known yet. Then there are injection injuries, which are a whole other category, which I believe make up the largest number of cases of long term damage from vaccines, because some people get sloppy with their injection technique.

However, I see no downside to acknowledging placebo effects. Since a placebo symptom is as real and dangerous as a drug response, the symptom management should be the same: treat appropriately and report to the appropriate healthcare professional. Seek urgent care if needed. Try to manage the distress.

No significant reaction to a drug or vaccine should ever be disregarded, whether the person thinks it's a side effect or placebo effect. The assumption shouldn't in any way affect the way it's handled. Possible side effects shouldn't be dismissed either, but I don't see acknowledging the placebo effect as diminishing the possibility of side effects. They always coexist, they always have, and they always will.

For some reason though, people still seem to be under the misapprehension that placebo effects aren't significant or dangerous.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 09:48:26 PM by Malcat »

Omy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #162 on: April 04, 2021, 10:02:09 PM »
A family member got covid arm several days after the first injection. Huge, red welt that was hot and itchy. It took several more days to resolve. She thought it might be an infection, but pictures on the internet made her realize it was just a side effect.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 08:02:29 AM by Omy »

jrhampt

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #163 on: April 05, 2021, 07:01:54 AM »
I know at least 9 people who are not getting the vaccine, and 8 of them are Trump supporters/Republicans.  1 is a more libertarian/both parties are equally bad kind of guy who is into hippie/crunchy stuff. 

Omy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #164 on: April 05, 2021, 08:00:47 AM »
That has been my observation as well. Some also follow internet doctors with questionable credentials who tell them that drugs used to worm horses will cure covid so why get a vaccine that might harm you?

I'm a wimp about needles (and would love to have had more data before being vaccinated), but most of the smart people I know are getting vaccinated so I chose to follow suit in order to get back to living a normal life.

Kris

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #165 on: April 05, 2021, 08:48:26 AM »
I know at least 9 people who are not getting the vaccine, and 8 of them are Trump supporters/Republicans.  1 is a more libertarian/both parties are equally bad kind of guy who is into hippie/crunchy stuff.

This tracks with the people I know, as well. Of all of those I know who aren't getting the vaccine, everyone is a conservative except for one guy, who is a former Republican and now libertarian. He recently moved to Florida, which has ramped up his echo-chamber-level Covid denialism noticeably.

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #166 on: April 05, 2021, 10:36:47 AM »
Ah, libertarianism . . . the philosophy that depends on the personal responsibility of the common man rather than government regulation to work.  Kinda telling that so few of the adherents have enough personal responsibility to even perform the slam dunk of something that both benefits them personally, and society as a whole.

jrhampt

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #167 on: April 05, 2021, 10:43:28 AM »
Ah, libertarianism . . . the philosophy that depends on the personal responsibility of the common man rather than government regulation to work.  Kinda telling that so few of the adherents have enough personal responsibility to even perform the slam dunk of something that both benefits them personally, and society as a whole.

Yes, it drives me nuts.  Also note that the other 8 I mention above are evangelical Christians...another group you would expect to be into "love your neighbor" stuff enough to get the vaccine, but no.

ctuser1

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #168 on: April 05, 2021, 10:58:06 AM »
DW and I both got the 1st shot over the weekend - Moderna. We were very very lucky to get the appointments. The floodgates opened in CT from 4/1, and getting a vaccine appointment since then has been a miracle.

DW has been complaining incessantly since then about something or the other, nothing too serious (e.g. the last update as of 20 minutes ago is "I am getting sniffles - did you?"), attributing all of that to the shot and blaming me for pretty much dragging her to get the shot. She does that. For my part, I am ganging up with the kids and the dog to mercilessly pull her leg for being a chicken.

I initially felt a bit "weird", dizzy/lightheaded as well as fatigued after the vaccine. That dizziness subsided after a couple of hours, while the fatigue took almost a day to go away. The arm is still pretty sore. 

Tigerpine

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #169 on: April 05, 2021, 11:00:42 AM »
Next week for me for jab #1!  Woo-hoo!

Watchmaker

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #170 on: April 05, 2021, 11:36:22 AM »
For those who have gotten “sick” from their vaccine:

Just a reminder that in clinical trials, a lot of the people who had reactions — including those who spiked a fever — were given the placebo.

I appreciate the reminder.

I've never had a vaccine reaction in my life and went to sleep comfortably 12 hours after the shot.  15 hours later I wake up shaking uncontrollably.

It's all in my head, right?

It’s not a value judgment. People who get a placebo effect aren’t weak-minded.

In one trial, there were four people who spiked fevers of up to 104.

Two of them had been given the placebo.

You had a reaction. It may not have been due to any active ingredient in the shot. But the reaction was real.

Edit: I say this as a person who got my first dose of Pfizer two days ago. I felt fatigue, nausea, and muscle aches, yesterday and today. This may or may not have been due to any active ingredient in the shot.
While I'm not disagreeing that the placebo effect can be strong, I do believe there is probably a lower case of that compared to real side effects when trying a new unknown vaccine. No one knows what to expect - if anything at all - so less likely to have a placebo effects. I know my own "covid arm" seemed to be a totally unexpected and unknown side effect (at least by me and seems somewhat rare) so most likely a "real" side effect from the vaccine. So it's possible most people are experiancing real side effects and I think it's important not to downplay them - especially for a new vaccine.

ETA: Curious to know if anyone else got covid arm/Moderna Arm too. It can be fairly mild or really nasty looking.

On the flip side, the exact same reasons a side effect is more likely are the same reasons a placebo effect are even MORE likely. The more people think it could have unknown side effects, the more placebo effects they'll have. I would actually expect a rather dramatic increase in placebo effects for this over regular flu shots.

Incidentally, I inject myself monthly with a horrible, monstrous drug that hurts like a mutherfucker because it's a very large protein and I always get an angry red splotchy spot. The drug company acknowledges the pain as normal and this redness as a possible occurence, but it's not listed as a side effect, it's considered a normal, harmless physiological response to the injection. Some patients develop ongoing, persistent irritation at the injection site, and this is listed as a side effect, but not if it goes away within something like 48 hrs.

There are side effects, adverse reactions, and normal range physiological responses. It's possible that "covid arm" isnt considered a proper "side effect". But time will tell if it gets categorized as one, because you're right, not all of the side effects are known yet. Then there are injection injuries, which are a whole other category, which I believe make up the largest number of cases of long term damage from vaccines, because some people get sloppy with their injection technique.

However, I see no downside to acknowledging placebo effects. Since a placebo symptom is as real and dangerous as a drug response, the symptom management should be the same: treat appropriately and report to the appropriate healthcare professional. Seek urgent care if needed. Try to manage the distress.

No significant reaction to a drug or vaccine should ever be disregarded, whether the person thinks it's a side effect or placebo effect. The assumption shouldn't in any way affect the way it's handled. Possible side effects shouldn't be dismissed either, but I don't see acknowledging the placebo effect as diminishing the possibility of side effects. They always coexist, they always have, and they always will.

For some reason though, people still seem to be under the misapprehension that placebo effects aren't significant or dangerous.

The side effects experienced by the control group also don't have to be placebo effects; they could could have an external cause other than the vaccine. The person may have gotten food poisoning, had another illness, or stared at the sun too long. The chances of me getting a headache in any given week are close to 100%, for example. We'd need baseline rates for those symptoms as well to see how much of it was placebo.

(Unless the above was already accounted for in the study.)

InvincibleChutzpah

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #171 on: April 07, 2021, 02:45:39 PM »
I've had my first Moderna shot. I had very minor pain at the injection site for 24 hours. A week later, I had COVID arm. It was sore, swollen, and VERY itchy for about two days.


I think the poll is interesting. I agree with many that the vaccine shouldn't be political, but it is. Even in this small poll only 3% of self identified liberals don't plan on ever getting the vaccine. Compare that to the 20% of self identified conservatives that aren't getting it. Whether or not people get the vaccine is very much along party lines. There is a small liberal subset of anti vaxxers, but its largely a conservative movement. This is anecdotal, but out of my office of 30 people, I am the only one getting the vaccine. I'm also the only one who isn't a die hard Trump supporter. They are all solidly in the camp that 1) COVID is just the flu and the death numbers are inflated and 2) The vaccine doesn't work/will give you cancer/is a government tracking chip (yes I really do work with people who think it's a tracking chip).
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 02:49:30 PM by InvincibleChutzpah »

Prairie Gal

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #172 on: April 08, 2021, 06:08:16 AM »
A post popped up on my FB feed yesterday about appointments opening up for the next group and the amount of haters was astounding. Everything from poisonous, not FDA approved, Gates, changes your DNA, it's just the flu and on and on. There is a large number of far right people here where I live.

I also talked to my SIL and she knows a young lady (22) that works in healthcare and a nurse advised her not to get it if she ever planned on having kids in the future because it can make you sterile.

I fear we will never reach herd immunity.

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #173 on: April 08, 2021, 07:51:54 AM »
not FDA approved

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/learn-more-about-covid-19-vaccines-fda#:~:text=Yes.,receive%20a%20COVID%2D19%20vaccine.

Quote
The FDA carefully evaluated and analyzed the safety and effectiveness data for all COVID-19 vaccines and determined that all of the available data for each vaccine provides clear evidence that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of each vaccine’s use.

I mean, you can't fight utterly crazy Bill Gates conspiracies . . . but the FDA has been pretty clear on their approval and say so on their website.    :P

Dicey

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #174 on: April 08, 2021, 09:22:04 AM »
My 96 year old friend was reluctant to get it. She's gotten this far in life avoiding any medical care she seems unnecessary. After much persuasion, she got her first jab yesterday. I'm baking her some cookies today.

NextTime

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #175 on: April 08, 2021, 02:05:36 PM »
I get the 2nd Phizer jab on Monday. Only symptom I had was a sore arm for about 36 hours.

I did feel tired for a few days after, but I’m not sure i could attribute that to the vaccine, or if I was just tired.

v8rx7guy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #176 on: April 08, 2021, 02:38:20 PM »
Scheduled for Saturday evening for my 1st round of Pfizer.  Kind of a unique situation available for me to get it ahead of when I should.  We have a local Tribe who received a certain number of Pfizer doses.  Everyone in the tribe who has wanted their vaccine has gotten it, so they have opened up their doses to non-Tribe members in the county with no restrictions.  Both me an my wife got in on the availability.

https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/coronavirus/article250475026.html
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 02:41:09 PM by v8rx7guy »

bacchi

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #177 on: April 08, 2021, 02:58:28 PM »
2) The vaccine doesn't work/will give you cancer/is a government tracking chip (yes I really do work with people who think it's a tracking chip).

There might be a market for anti-RFID overalls (+ gimme hat).

In camo, of course.

GreenEggs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #178 on: April 08, 2021, 03:30:24 PM »
We lucked up and found a nearby county that had more doses than their mostly conservative citizens required.  Their health department offered the extra doses to anyone that asked.  DW, DD, her boyfriend, and I all got the second Pitzer shot 2 days ago.  We were all in "group five".




lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #179 on: April 08, 2021, 08:42:56 PM »
not FDA approved

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/learn-more-about-covid-19-vaccines-fda#:~:text=Yes.,receive%20a%20COVID%2D19%20vaccine.

Quote
The FDA carefully evaluated and analyzed the safety and effectiveness data for all COVID-19 vaccines and determined that all of the available data for each vaccine provides clear evidence that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of each vaccine’s use.

I mean, you can't fight utterly crazy Bill Gates conspiracies . . . but the FDA has been pretty clear on their approval and say so on their website.    :P
The FDA has not approved any vaccines for covid; they have merely issued emergency use authorizations.
/pedantic comment

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #180 on: April 09, 2021, 07:27:24 AM »
not FDA approved

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/learn-more-about-covid-19-vaccines-fda#:~:text=Yes.,receive%20a%20COVID%2D19%20vaccine.

Quote
The FDA carefully evaluated and analyzed the safety and effectiveness data for all COVID-19 vaccines and determined that all of the available data for each vaccine provides clear evidence that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of each vaccine’s use.

I mean, you can't fight utterly crazy Bill Gates conspiracies . . . but the FDA has been pretty clear on their approval and say so on their website.    :P
The FDA has not approved any vaccines for covid; they have merely issued emergency use authorizations.
/pedantic comment

Also being pedantic - Is authorization for use not approval?  They've said that people should use the vaccine.

Approval - the belief that someone or something is good or acceptable.

Emergency use authorization is therefore approval is it not?

YoungGranny

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #181 on: April 09, 2021, 07:37:51 AM »
FWIW I was somebody who back in December put "probably" but have now received my first shot. It was before all 3 were released for widespread use, I still had some questions, and I was unsure what supply would actually look like (being last in line). In that time I educated myself on the rigorous trials the vaccines went through, and was lucky enough to score a Moderna vaccine a couple weeks ago with supply being ramped up.

I would like to see the US hit herd immunity (saw the UK is projected to hit it by next week!!) and hopefully as we continue the process and people make informed choices we get more and more shots in arms.

chemistk

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #182 on: April 09, 2021, 09:24:35 AM »
not FDA approved

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/learn-more-about-covid-19-vaccines-fda#:~:text=Yes.,receive%20a%20COVID%2D19%20vaccine.

Quote
The FDA carefully evaluated and analyzed the safety and effectiveness data for all COVID-19 vaccines and determined that all of the available data for each vaccine provides clear evidence that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of each vaccine’s use.

I mean, you can't fight utterly crazy Bill Gates conspiracies . . . but the FDA has been pretty clear on their approval and say so on their website.    :P
The FDA has not approved any vaccines for covid; they have merely issued emergency use authorizations.
/pedantic comment

Also being pedantic - Is authorization for use not approval?  They've said that people should use the vaccine.

Approval - the belief that someone or something is good or acceptable.

Emergency use authorization is therefore approval is it not?

EUA is more-or-less approval. Since the vaccines didn't follow the FDA's "standard" process, they can't be considered fully approved until it clears all that additional red tape. So, EUA until full approval can be conferred.

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization#:~:text=The%20Emergency%20Use%20Authorization%20%28EUA%29%20authority%20allows%20FDA,medical%20countermeasures%20%28MCMs%29%20needed%20during%20public%20health%20emergencies.

https://www.adventhealth.com/blog/coronavirus-vaccine-eua-vs-fda-approval

pdxvandal

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #183 on: April 09, 2021, 10:30:34 AM »
Got my first stab two days ago, Moderna, on a Native American reservation via a part-time job I have that helped me qualify. Had to drive 60 miles to get it, but well worth the road trip and got to listen to MY music loudly with no family in the car. I didn't want to wait until April 19 to become officially eligible with the general population, then scramble for online appointments. Plus, I'm hopping on an airplane in a few weeks, and at least I'll have more protection than having received zero vaccine.

My arm is still a little sore, but that was the only symptom.

Malcat

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #184 on: April 09, 2021, 12:20:36 PM »
not FDA approved

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/learn-more-about-covid-19-vaccines-fda#:~:text=Yes.,receive%20a%20COVID%2D19%20vaccine.

Quote
The FDA carefully evaluated and analyzed the safety and effectiveness data for all COVID-19 vaccines and determined that all of the available data for each vaccine provides clear evidence that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of each vaccine’s use.

I mean, you can't fight utterly crazy Bill Gates conspiracies . . . but the FDA has been pretty clear on their approval and say so on their website.    :P
The FDA has not approved any vaccines for covid; they have merely issued emergency use authorizations.
/pedantic comment

Also being pedantic - Is authorization for use not approval?  They've said that people should use the vaccine.

Approval - the belief that someone or something is good or acceptable.

Emergency use authorization is therefore approval is it not?

If you are using the conversational definition of "approval", then yes, the FDA has approved the use of the drug.

However, in this context, "approval" is a technical term that means that the drug has gone through a formal process and is conferred a specific, legally binding status.

It's the same way that in the medical world, the term "specialist" means having a license in a board recognized area of speciality. So, for example, if a doctor dedicated themselves to one subject matter and only treats that one subject. My hip surgeon, who only treats hips, and is a world leader in hip surgery, cannot be called a hip specialist, because there is no specialty just for hips. He *is* specialized in hips in the conversational sense, but that term would be considered inaccurate in a conversation about medical specialists because the word is co-opted to mean something legally specific, with significant legal implications.

The FDA could revoke the use of any of these vaccines on the basis that they aren't approved. It's a very important distinction, because the process of removing an officially approved drug from market is far more cumbersome than revoking an authorization.

It's not just pedantic, it's a significant legal power that the FDA is retaining.

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #185 on: April 09, 2021, 12:41:55 PM »
not FDA approved

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/learn-more-about-covid-19-vaccines-fda#:~:text=Yes.,receive%20a%20COVID%2D19%20vaccine.

Quote
The FDA carefully evaluated and analyzed the safety and effectiveness data for all COVID-19 vaccines and determined that all of the available data for each vaccine provides clear evidence that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of each vaccine’s use.

I mean, you can't fight utterly crazy Bill Gates conspiracies . . . but the FDA has been pretty clear on their approval and say so on their website.    :P
The FDA has not approved any vaccines for covid; they have merely issued emergency use authorizations.
/pedantic comment

Also being pedantic - Is authorization for use not approval?  They've said that people should use the vaccine.

Approval - the belief that someone or something is good or acceptable.

Emergency use authorization is therefore approval is it not?

If you are using the conversational definition of "approval", then yes, the FDA has approved the use of the drug.

However, in this context, "approval" is a technical term that means that the drug has gone through a formal process and is conferred a specific, legally binding status.

It's the same way that in the medical world, the term "specialist" means having a license in a board recognized area of speciality. So, for example, if a doctor dedicated themselves to one subject matter and only treats that one subject. My hip surgeon, who only treats hips, and is a world leader in hip surgery, cannot be called a hip specialist, because there is no specialty just for hips. He *is* specialized in hips in the conversational sense, but that term would be considered inaccurate in a conversation about medical specialists because the word is co-opted to mean something legally specific, with significant legal implications.

The FDA could revoke the use of any of these vaccines on the basis that they aren't approved. It's a very important distinction, because the process of removing an officially approved drug from market is far more cumbersome than revoking an authorization.

It's not just pedantic, it's a significant legal power that the FDA is retaining.

I'm assuming that this lack of legal approval is predicated upon the fact that the covid vaccines have not been fully tested to normal standards (no long term health data)?

Malcat

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #186 on: April 09, 2021, 12:57:07 PM »
not FDA approved

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/learn-more-about-covid-19-vaccines-fda#:~:text=Yes.,receive%20a%20COVID%2D19%20vaccine.

Quote
The FDA carefully evaluated and analyzed the safety and effectiveness data for all COVID-19 vaccines and determined that all of the available data for each vaccine provides clear evidence that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of each vaccine’s use.

I mean, you can't fight utterly crazy Bill Gates conspiracies . . . but the FDA has been pretty clear on their approval and say so on their website.    :P
The FDA has not approved any vaccines for covid; they have merely issued emergency use authorizations.
/pedantic comment

Also being pedantic - Is authorization for use not approval?  They've said that people should use the vaccine.

Approval - the belief that someone or something is good or acceptable.

Emergency use authorization is therefore approval is it not?

If you are using the conversational definition of "approval", then yes, the FDA has approved the use of the drug.

However, in this context, "approval" is a technical term that means that the drug has gone through a formal process and is conferred a specific, legally binding status.

It's the same way that in the medical world, the term "specialist" means having a license in a board recognized area of speciality. So, for example, if a doctor dedicated themselves to one subject matter and only treats that one subject. My hip surgeon, who only treats hips, and is a world leader in hip surgery, cannot be called a hip specialist, because there is no specialty just for hips. He *is* specialized in hips in the conversational sense, but that term would be considered inaccurate in a conversation about medical specialists because the word is co-opted to mean something legally specific, with significant legal implications.

The FDA could revoke the use of any of these vaccines on the basis that they aren't approved. It's a very important distinction, because the process of removing an officially approved drug from market is far more cumbersome than revoking an authorization.

It's not just pedantic, it's a significant legal power that the FDA is retaining.

I'm assuming that this lack of legal approval is predicated upon the fact that the covid vaccines have not been fully tested to normal standards (no long term health data)?

I have no idea the details.
I just know that approval is a specific pathway with a certain sequence of hoops to jump through. Bureaucratic red tape and safety aren't always synonymous.

What the FDA has done, as I understand, is reserve the right to rapidly pull any of the vaccines from the market if they feel they need further testing. If they fully approve them, they can't do that. The process to revoke full approval is extremely cumbersome and can take many, many years.

It took years to remove most of the cox-2 inhibitors from the market, even after it was clear that there were problems with them, because each drug would have had to be proved to be a problem individually. I believe in the end, most of the companies voluntarily took their drugs off the market, but I could be wrong about that.

Either way, in a case where new drugs are being used on almost the entire population, retaining the ability to be nimble in terms of regulation of use is a smart move.

Malcat

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #187 on: April 15, 2021, 12:47:26 PM »
Got my Pfizer shot this morning.

Normally I feel like I've been run over by a train after my annual flu shot, but I've had no discernable side effects.

brandon1827

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #188 on: April 16, 2021, 07:39:45 AM »
Got my second dose of Pfizer yesterday, so for the time-being I'm officially vaccinated...until I read last night the discussion about a potentially third Pfizer shot being needed, lol

GoCubsGo

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #189 on: April 16, 2021, 08:24:57 AM »
Got the JnJ one shot last weekend, then they paused it.  Awesome.  I'm not super worried but it's definitely not a great thing to wake up to it being all over the news.

A couple family members have made snarky comments about "that's why I'm not getting vaccinated".  One is super liberal. One is super Republican. Vaccine hesitancy is very real for many reasons other than political affiliation. 

MudPuppy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #190 on: April 16, 2021, 08:37:13 AM »
Birth control, smoking, flying on an airplane, and of course COVID-19 infection all carry a much high risk of developing blood clots.

Malcat

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #191 on: April 16, 2021, 09:08:43 AM »
Birth control, smoking, flying on an airplane, and of course COVID-19 infection all carry a much high risk of developing blood clots.

Not to mention pregnancy, obesity, elective surgery, sitting at a desk all day, etc, etc. That said, not all blood clots are created equally.

But what really matters is what you've already stated, that Covid is far more likely to cause serious blood clots than the vaccine. And the lifetime chances of getting covid are astronomically high.

SunnyDays

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #192 on: April 16, 2021, 10:04:53 AM »
Recently became eligible and so scheduled my first shot (Pfizer) for May 4.  I have to drive over an hour to get it, but I purposely took that appointment because it's sooner than the one that will be just across town.  I had zero reaction to the flu shot in fall, so here's hoping this causes nothing too.

For those who are reluctant because of the speed of development, I heard a doctor give the explanation for it:  most vaccines take years because there's a lot of time spent waiting - for grants, for volunteers for trials, etc.  And by and large, there is no severe urgency, so things just drag along.  Covid vaccines were different in all these respects.

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #193 on: April 16, 2021, 10:52:27 AM »
Recently became eligible and so scheduled my first shot (Pfizer) for May 4.  I have to drive over an hour to get it, but I purposely took that appointment because it's sooner than the one that will be just across town.  I had zero reaction to the flu shot in fall, so here's hoping this causes nothing too.

For those who are reluctant because of the speed of development, I heard a doctor give the explanation for it:  most vaccines take years because there's a lot of time spent waiting - for grants, for volunteers for trials, etc.  And by and large, there is no severe urgency, so things just drag along.  Covid vaccines were different in all these respects.

Also, the underlying technology/science already existed.  We didn't invent the space shuttle, fill it, and launch it in this time.  We just created the payload for the shuttle that was already basically designed and waiting to be filled up with the gadgets we wanted it to deliver. 

v8rx7guy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #194 on: April 16, 2021, 02:38:24 PM »
Recently became eligible and so scheduled my first shot (Pfizer) for May 4.  I have to drive over an hour to get it, but I purposely took that appointment because it's sooner than the one that will be just across town.  I had zero reaction to the flu shot in fall, so here's hoping this causes nothing too.

For those who are reluctant because of the speed of development, I heard a doctor give the explanation for it:  most vaccines take years because there's a lot of time spent waiting - for grants, for volunteers for trials, etc.  And by and large, there is no severe urgency, so things just drag along.  Covid vaccines were different in all these respects.

Also, the underlying technology/science already existed.  We didn't invent the space shuttle, fill it, and launch it in this time.  We just created the payload for the shuttle that was already basically designed and waiting to be filled up with the gadgets we wanted it to deliver.

Makes me wonder what other diseases we could do this for but there's not enough money / interest in developing it?

Malcat

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #195 on: April 16, 2021, 02:42:43 PM »
Recently became eligible and so scheduled my first shot (Pfizer) for May 4.  I have to drive over an hour to get it, but I purposely took that appointment because it's sooner than the one that will be just across town.  I had zero reaction to the flu shot in fall, so here's hoping this causes nothing too.

For those who are reluctant because of the speed of development, I heard a doctor give the explanation for it:  most vaccines take years because there's a lot of time spent waiting - for grants, for volunteers for trials, etc.  And by and large, there is no severe urgency, so things just drag along.  Covid vaccines were different in all these respects.

Also, the underlying technology/science already existed.  We didn't invent the space shuttle, fill it, and launch it in this time.  We just created the payload for the shuttle that was already basically designed and waiting to be filled up with the gadgets we wanted it to deliver.

Makes me wonder what other diseases we could do this for but there's not enough money / interest in developing it?

Uh...most of them.

The vast majority of illnesses aren't common enough to be worth researching. As anyone with a rare illness (ie: me), there is virtually NO treatment research because we're not a lucrative enough market, so we just get to die young.

mrs sideways

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #196 on: April 17, 2021, 10:06:22 AM »
The vaccine doesn't work/will give you cancer/is a government tracking chip (yes I really do work with people who think it's a tracking chip).

This is a particularly dumb conspiracy theory. If Bill Gates actually had the motivation, money, and technological power to put a nanotech tracking chip in the vaccine... he wouldn't have to put it in a vaccine. Everyone would have one in them already.

jeromedawg

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #197 on: April 17, 2021, 10:29:12 AM »
I got my first dose of Moderna last week. I got the listed side-effects: soreness in the area of injection (more painful and lasting than the flu shot... I'd say a level above the tetanus aftereffects), fatigue and on-and-off headaches. I think I may have had slight cotton-mouth too. Also felt hungry at but didn't want to eat...

Not looking forward to the second dose and being laid up for 1-2 days after :(

ysette9

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #198 on: April 18, 2021, 03:15:53 PM »
I follow @nippycrisp’s journal. He worked in the pharmaceutical industry as a PhD scientist type and has discussed in detail how the vaccines work, how they were developed, how the trials were run, etc. He participated in one of the trials as well. As he described, the reason why these trials went so quickly is because Covid has been spreading like wildfire, especially in the US. This means the waiting time for people to be exposed in the wild was much shorter than for the development of other vaccines.

Imagine you built a nerf gun and you need to fire it 500 times in a row to determine whether it is reliable enough to mass produce and sell in toy stores. Your qualification program to determine whether it is a quality nerf gun design goes a lot faster if you can pull the trigger ever second (US) versus every hour (Taiwan/Singapore/Korea/New Zealand). We got our vaccines tested quickly because our country has been a writhing mass of infection for the past year.

ysette9

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #199 on: April 18, 2021, 03:16:28 PM »
Oh yeah, and we got appointments for our first jab tomorrow. Woo hoo!