Poll

If available to you, will you get a covid-19 vaccine in the next year?

Yes (liberal)
284 (66.4%)
Probably (liberal)
30 (7%)
No (liberal)
13 (3%)
Yes (conservative)
55 (12.9%)
Probably (conservative)
20 (4.7%)
No (conservative)
21 (4.9%)
I'm required to get a vaccine
2 (0.5%)
It's unsafe for me to get a vaccine
3 (0.7%)

Total Members Voted: 427

Author Topic: Will you get the vaccine?  (Read 25786 times)

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2020, 01:30:56 PM »
The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.

You can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before. Specifically, there was SARS-CoV-1 vaccine data being published in 2012 and AFAIK it was used as a basis for the Oxford vaccine. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

Many vaccines have been developed and not approved for general distribution.  That's a dishonest argument though because you're comparing apples and oranges.  Didn't think that this would be required to add, but by 'developed a vaccine' I mean 'developed a vaccine that was approved for general distribution'.

I don't follow your logic, at all. Please elaborate.

Should be pretty straight forward.

The SARS-CoV-1 vaccine was never fully developed.  It didn't pass all stages of testing and was not approved for general use in humans.  Development time for it can't fairly be compared with the development time for the coronavirus vaccines that are being released to people on a very large scale right now.

So what? How does that matter for counting years of development if they used all the information and techniques that they developed and then used them to deliver it to a slightly different protein payload?

Tigerpine

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2020, 01:31:10 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/politics/white-house-fda-chief-approve-covid-vaccine-resign/index.html

well - this doesn't exactly inspire confidence

Quote
Washington (CNN)White House chief of staff Mark Meadows told Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn he needed to grant an emergency use authorization for Pfizer/BioNTech's coronavirus vaccine by the end of Friday, and if not, he needs to resign, an administration official and a source familiar with the situation tell CNN.

You beat me to it.  They really need to keep politics out of this.

Villanelle

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2020, 01:40:27 PM »
A few days ago I was a definite yes.  Now, I am waiting to see if I'm an "unsafe", as I carry an epi pen (bee sting allergy) and it seems like the Pfizer vax would be out for me based on the European rules.  I will need to see the rules for the various versions. 

DH is military and we are assuming it will be both required and also likely very early in the roll-out. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2020, 02:06:10 PM »
The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.

You can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before. Specifically, there was SARS-CoV-1 vaccine data being published in 2012 and AFAIK it was used as a basis for the Oxford vaccine. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

Many vaccines have been developed and not approved for general distribution.  That's a dishonest argument though because you're comparing apples and oranges.  Didn't think that this would be required to add, but by 'developed a vaccine' I mean 'developed a vaccine that was approved for general distribution'.

I don't follow your logic, at all. Please elaborate.

Should be pretty straight forward.

The SARS-CoV-1 vaccine was never fully developed.  It didn't pass all stages of testing and was not approved for general use in humans.  Development time for it can't fairly be compared with the development time for the coronavirus vaccines that are being released to people on a very large scale right now.

So what? How does that matter for counting years of development if they used all the information and techniques that they developed and then used them to deliver it to a slightly different protein payload?

There are two important aspects of development for a vaccine:
- does it work
- is it safe

The information and techniques previously used helped achieve the first part very quickly . . . but cannot be used to guarantee the second.  The only way we have to do that is real world testing.  It's not really possible to use testing done for a different vaccine that never received authorization for any kind of widespread distribution.

To answer 'so what?' - the hang up right now is not 'does the vaccine work'.  All evidence points to 'yes' at the moment.  The concern is about safety of the vaccine.  Previous unqualified vaccine work in a similar field doesn't really help us with that.

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2020, 02:40:38 PM »
The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.

You can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before. Specifically, there was SARS-CoV-1 vaccine data being published in 2012 and AFAIK it was used as a basis for the Oxford vaccine. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

Many vaccines have been developed and not approved for general distribution.  That's a dishonest argument though because you're comparing apples and oranges.  Didn't think that this would be required to add, but by 'developed a vaccine' I mean 'developed a vaccine that was approved for general distribution'.

I don't follow your logic, at all. Please elaborate.

Should be pretty straight forward.

The SARS-CoV-1 vaccine was never fully developed.  It didn't pass all stages of testing and was not approved for general use in humans.  Development time for it can't fairly be compared with the development time for the coronavirus vaccines that are being released to people on a very large scale right now.

So what? How does that matter for counting years of development if they used all the information and techniques that they developed and then used them to deliver it to a slightly different protein payload?

There are two important aspects of development for a vaccine:
- does it work
- is it safe

The information and techniques previously used helped achieve the first part very quickly . . . but cannot be used to guarantee the second.  The only way we have to do that is real world testing.  It's not really possible to use testing done for a different vaccine that never received authorization for any kind of widespread distribution.

To answer 'so what?' - the hang up right now is not 'does the vaccine work'.  All evidence points to 'yes' at the moment.  The concern is about safety of the vaccine.  Previous unqualified vaccine work in a similar field doesn't really help us with that.

Which is why I clearly stated that "[y]ou can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before." I think that even the regulatory agencies would agree with you which is why they are only granting emergency authorization.

If fact, if anyone wants to say "I'll take the vaccine the second that it gets full approval" I'd consider that an intellectually reasonable and consistent stance.

Cranky

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2020, 02:42:51 PM »
Yeah, a year is not “long term”.

I feel like this is a question we have a ton of data on that is nearly completely transferable from other vaccines. Has there ever been a vaccine that had effects that weren't immediately apparent? There might be, but I'm certainly not aware of it. There's vaccines with a risk of infection (some polio vaccines), there's nearly always a risk of auto-immune stuff (eg guillain barre), but those are both apparent very quickly. If we have decades and decades of data on vaccine safety that have no suggestion that long-term consequences are an issue for this sort of thing (and all vaccines are basically the exact same sort of thing), then I don't think it's something we need to worry much about here.

There was a rotavirus vaccine (for babies) that was approved and then pulled off the market around 1990 or so? And there was a vaccine of some sort for cats in the late 80s that caused tumors?

But again, that’s a good long time ago and a lot has improved in vaccine development and testing.

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2020, 03:13:35 PM »
Yeah, a year is not “long term”.

I feel like this is a question we have a ton of data on that is nearly completely transferable from other vaccines. Has there ever been a vaccine that had effects that weren't immediately apparent? There might be, but I'm certainly not aware of it. There's vaccines with a risk of infection (some polio vaccines), there's nearly always a risk of auto-immune stuff (eg guillain barre), but those are both apparent very quickly. If we have decades and decades of data on vaccine safety that have no suggestion that long-term consequences are an issue for this sort of thing (and all vaccines are basically the exact same sort of thing), then I don't think it's something we need to worry much about here.

There was a rotavirus vaccine (for babies) that was approved and then pulled off the market around 1990 or so? And there was a vaccine of some sort for cats in the late 80s that caused tumors?

But again, that’s a good long time ago and a lot has improved in vaccine development and testing.

The first US Chickenpox vaccine was approved then pulled, but I believe that it was never pulled in many countries.

I was wrong. It was commercially available in 1984 but wasn't approved in the USA until 1995.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicella_vaccine

FWIW chicken pox killed 100+ kids per year in the USA so delaying approval for 11 years had a real cost (besides my scars).
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 03:20:30 PM by PDXTabs »

Kris

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2020, 03:17:37 PM »
I'm surprised after 50-60 votes I'm the first one who voted for required.

I would say I lean conservative and would get the vaccine if it were not going to be required by the military. I'm not 100% sure I'll be required, but pretty close. We're required to get annual flu shots and it's tracked down to the individual person and each unit is expected to get to 95%+. I was required to get a yellow fever vaccine to go to Africa and was required to take anti-malaria pills every day as well, so I can't imagine this will be any different.

Quite honestly, I think it should be required, but I didn't vote that, because I know that bozos on the right would immediately start threatening to overthrow the government bla bla bla and it would all be even more of a giant damn shitshow than it already is. We are too dumb for our own good.

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2020, 03:20:07 PM »
Which is why I clearly stated that "[y]ou can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before." I think that even the regulatory agencies would agree with you which is why they are only granting emergency authorization.

If fact, if anyone wants to say "I'll take the vaccine the second that it gets full approval" I'd consider that an intellectually reasonable and consistent stance.

Development continues until a product is deemed ready for market.  The SARS-CoV-1 vaccine failed to complete development as it was never deemed ready for market.  The coronavirus vaccine has completed development as it has been deemed ready for the market (albeit by altering the rules for what an acceptable product is regarding vaccine safety).

It sounds like you're arguing that they're both in development because the coronavirus vaccine only has emergency authorization for use and thus comparable.  If so, I think I understand where you're coming from - even if I disagree with your definition.

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2020, 03:22:00 PM »
Which is why I clearly stated that "[y]ou can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before." I think that even the regulatory agencies would agree with you which is why they are only granting emergency authorization.

If fact, if anyone wants to say "I'll take the vaccine the second that it gets full approval" I'd consider that an intellectually reasonable and consistent stance.

Development continues until a product is deemed ready for market.

I completely agree. But if you buy a Mk2 Ford Focus, didn't it start development whenever the Mk1 was in R&D?

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2020, 03:36:07 PM »
Which is why I clearly stated that "[y]ou can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before." I think that even the regulatory agencies would agree with you which is why they are only granting emergency authorization.

If fact, if anyone wants to say "I'll take the vaccine the second that it gets full approval" I'd consider that an intellectually reasonable and consistent stance.

Development continues until a product is deemed ready for market.

I completely agree. But if you buy a Mk2 Ford Focus, didn't it start development whenever the Mk1 was in R&D?

That's a totally arbitrary line that depends on where you happen to be musing when you decide to draw it.

The Mk 2 Ford Focus began development when the combustibility of gasoline was discovered.  Or when the model-T started assembly line production.  Or when seatbelts and airbags became standard equipment in cars.  Or when the Ford Escort was built.  Pick any - they're all equally wrong.

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2020, 03:40:06 PM »
The Mk 2 Ford Focus began development when the combustibility of gasoline was discovered.  Or when the model-T started assembly line production.  Or when seatbelts and airbags became standard equipment in cars.  Or when the Ford Escort was built.  Pick any - they're all equally wrong.

You are right. Putting the SARS-CoV-2 protein payload in the SARS-CoV-1 vaccine that Oxford was already working on is like adding a new engine to the Focus Mk1 lineup.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #62 on: December 11, 2020, 04:03:32 PM »
Yes I will get it, but I'll probably wait a while before doing so.

From what I've heard here, approval by the TGA is likely to be still a few months away (the Government is saying likely March). No need for an emergency authorisation here in Aus as we're not seeing hundreds/thousands of deaths per day.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-12-04/uk-coronavirus-rollout:-what-does-it-mean-for-australia/12946414
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-02/health-minister-greg-hunt-britain-approval-pfizer-vaccine/12944440

Once it's approved, obviously there'll be priority groups that'll need the vaccine first, so I'll be well down the list.

Maybe mid 2021? Depends on whether I want to travel overseas or not.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 04:22:34 PM by alsoknownasDean »

Cranky

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2020, 04:06:46 PM »
Yeah, a year is not “long term”.

I feel like this is a question we have a ton of data on that is nearly completely transferable from other vaccines. Has there ever been a vaccine that had effects that weren't immediately apparent? There might be, but I'm certainly not aware of it. There's vaccines with a risk of infection (some polio vaccines), there's nearly always a risk of auto-immune stuff (eg guillain barre), but those are both apparent very quickly. If we have decades and decades of data on vaccine safety that have no suggestion that long-term consequences are an issue for this sort of thing (and all vaccines are basically the exact same sort of thing), then I don't think it's something we need to worry much about here.

There was a rotavirus vaccine (for babies) that was approved and then pulled off the market around 1990 or so? And there was a vaccine of some sort for cats in the late 80s that caused tumors?

But again, that’s a good long time ago and a lot has improved in vaccine development and testing.

The first US Chickenpox vaccine was approved then pulled, but I believe that it was never pulled in many countries.

I was wrong. It was commercially available in 1984 but wasn't approved in the USA until 1995.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicella_vaccine

FWIW chicken pox killed 100+ kids per year in the USA so delaying approval for 11 years had a real cost (besides my scars).

So, my kids were born in the 80s and 90s and a lot of my experience with childhood vaccines comes from that era as a result. The big question about the chicken pox vaccine was whether it would be as effective over the long run as natural immunity would be, and that had to be balanced out against the economic cost of a disease that was usually quite mild but meant that kids had to be at home for two weeks.

Our pediatrician said, at the time, that he recommended the vaccine to families where it would be a hardship to have someone stay home for two weeks (however many times it took to run through all the kids) but suggested waiting to see if the kids got it naturally otherwise and then vaccinate when they went to school. That feels relevant to the discussion at present in that there are things to balance out. Most kids who were really sick with chicken pox had pre existing immune issues, and he absolutely recommended the vaccine in that case.

As it happened my kids all got chicken pox naturally and did not end up being immunized.

Neustache

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2020, 04:29:23 PM »
I am in the vaccine trial.  I may have already received it, but won't know for a couple weeks yet (or longer).  I am a conservative who is Never Trump.

Jon Bon

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2020, 05:26:57 PM »
I totally misunderstood the poll, but yes I will get the vaccine at the first opportunity*.

Also today I got my antibody test back. Apparently I have had covid, and really had no clue!

I mean I guess I will get the vaccine when there is a nice stock pile but I would imagine I have some level of protection and being mostly young and healthy I have no need of it in 2021.


lutorm

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2020, 05:31:45 PM »
Hard to define "liberal" or "conservative" for an international audience, though, since what would qualify as a liberal in the US would likely be quite far to the right in Sweden.

Nevertheless, I'll be getting it, when I get a chance. Won't be for a while though.

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2020, 10:42:41 PM »
Hard to define "liberal" or "conservative" for an international audience, though, since what would qualify as a liberal in the US would likely be quite far to the right in Sweden.

You might be surprise to talk to some liberals in the USA. Eg, I'm a Scottish National Party member, which puts me well to the left of Biden. However, I was just arguing with some people tonight about how no, I don't want a full on French Revolution style revolution and neither should they.

lutorm

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2020, 11:34:40 PM »
Hard to define "liberal" or "conservative" for an international audience, though, since what would qualify as a liberal in the US would likely be quite far to the right in Sweden.

You might be surprise to talk to some liberals in the USA. Eg, I'm a Scottish National Party member, which puts me well to the left of Biden. However, I was just arguing with some people tonight about how no, I don't want a full on French Revolution style revolution and neither should they.
Yeah the problem is that "liberal" is used for anything from Biden to Bernie. The "liberal" party in Sweden is a right-of-center party...


Cranky

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2020, 04:10:24 AM »
But there are some real conservatives in Sweden these days, by anyone’s definition.

Omy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2020, 05:53:53 AM »
Yes...I should probably have made it a US only poll.

It's interesting that (even very early in this poll) those who lean left seem more likely to trust the vaccine than those who lean right. I realize the sample size of this poll is very small, and this forum population is likely more educated/more successful/more likely to trust scientists than the population at large. Has anybody seen a similar poll of the US population to see if the trend is the same?

Kris

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2020, 06:12:55 AM »
Hard to define "liberal" or "conservative" for an international audience, though, since what would qualify as a liberal in the US would likely be quite far to the right in Sweden.

You might be surprise to talk to some liberals in the USA. Eg, I'm a Scottish National Party member, which puts me well to the left of Biden. However, I was just arguing with some people tonight about how no, I don't want a full on French Revolution style revolution and neither should they.
Yeah the problem is that "liberal" is used for anything from Biden to Bernie.

So are “socialist” and “communist.”

In fact, talk to most Trump supporters, and you’ll find that all three terms are interchangeable. :P

the_fixer

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2020, 07:23:40 AM »
Independent so I did not vote.

I will take the vaccine when it is made available as I really do not have a choice. And I suspect that will be in the spring round due to the nature of my work.

My employer is already working with legal counsel to see if they can mandate vaccination or how they can require it.

Even if they do not succeed at being able to mandate it as soon as it is available to me they will expect me to go back to working the way I did in the past traveling 2 - 3 days a week to remote locations working in confined spaces with people who refuse to wear masks and will likely refuse vaccination. (We have had entire sites get covid)

So my choices would be
- Go back to how it used to be with a vaccination and take the risk of the vaccine
- Go back without a vaccine and risk covid
- Quit or refuse to go and get fired (might be an option as my fire date is oct 2021)

In addition to the work aspect we love to travel and I expect some places will mandate vaccination to enter (I could see cruise ships requiring it to board). And let’s be honest if you are going to travel internationally it is going to take a long time before covid is under control across the world and I do not want to travel to a place where I could contract it without being vaccinated.


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Omy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2020, 07:50:35 AM »
"Democrats are more willing than Republicans, 75% to 50%, to get the COVID-19 vaccine."

http://https://abcnews.go.com/Health/americans-increasingly-covid-19-vaccine-poll/story?id=74632280
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 07:52:40 AM by Omy »

Dicey

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2020, 07:56:21 AM »
I'm with @ixtap, @Kris, and @WhiteTrashCash. I vote with my brain, not by party affiliation. Therefore, no place in this poll for me.

I believe I had it in mid-March, so I will not be elbowing anyone out of line to get "my" dose. I'll get it when it's my turn.

One benefit of this group having an engineering/science bent is that there seems to be less anti-vaxxing sentiment in favor of belief in, you know, actual science. I see we have a glaring exception voicing opinions on this thread. To that person, and persons of similar beliefs, I say, "Welcome! Please feel free to hang out here and learn."

SpreadsheetMan

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #75 on: December 12, 2020, 09:32:33 AM »
As a UK person it is hard to comprehend how this is a political thing. If I had to be categorised, I would call myself a moderate, but I lean slightly left on some issues and slightly right on others. None of this has anything to do with COVID.

Having seen a fit and healthy work colleague of DW, same age as me (50s) catch COVID, almost die and suffer life-changing side effects (minor stroke while being ventilated) I will take the vaccine as soon as it is offered without a second thought.

(I was an engineer, so definitely a science bent in my case.)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 09:34:20 AM by SpreadsheetMan »

GoCubsGo

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #76 on: December 14, 2020, 01:18:22 PM »
I not going to lie, at first I was a definite "yes" but the first two issues that popped up (severe allergies and bells palsy) are both in my household. Scares the crap out of me. That said, I want my parents who are in their sixties and have some comorbidities to get it asap.  I'm hoping by summer when it will most likely be available to me and my family one of the versions will be safer for our specific issues.

As for long term implications.. I'm willing to take the risk.  No comment on the politics as I generally focus on things within my control and fighting those type battles is a waste of energy and bandwidth for me.

Edited to add that I heard on CNBC that 40%+ of front line health workers in New Jersey's health system don't want the vaccine (as of last week).   Not sure what to make of that....
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 01:20:29 PM by GoCubsGo »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #77 on: December 14, 2020, 03:12:41 PM »
I not going to lie, at first I was a definite "yes" but the first two issues that popped up (severe allergies and bells palsy) are both in my household. Scares the crap out of me. That said, I want my parents who are in their sixties and have some comorbidities to get it asap.  I'm hoping by summer when it will most likely be available to me and my family one of the versions will be safer for our specific issues.

As for long term implications.. I'm willing to take the risk.  No comment on the politics as I generally focus on things within my control and fighting those type battles is a waste of energy and bandwidth for me.

Edited to add that I heard on CNBC that 40%+ of front line health workers in New Jersey's health system don't want the vaccine (as of last week).   Not sure what to make of that....

The Moderna and Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccines will be online soon.  So there will be options.

stepingum

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #78 on: December 14, 2020, 04:01:37 PM »
I'm slightly left-leaning and a solid no, at the moment. Studies, so far, have not tested likelihood of reducing asymptomatic spread, rather, only reduce likelihood of severe illness. I am not at risk of severe illness (young, healthy) and seeing as there is no known "greater good" in getting vaccinated, I'll pass. The risks of vaccination outweigh the risks of covid, in my case (MTHFR gene mutation, which generally doesn't play well with toxins and the like).

ysette9

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #79 on: December 14, 2020, 04:13:32 PM »
I know little about vaccines or their development but I have followed with interest our friend @nippycrisp’s journal.
He FIREd from the pharmaceutical industry, participated in a vaccine trial, and used his journal to explain to us laypeople how the mRNA vaccine works and his confidence in it.

A thing he notes that I found interesting is that a lot of the time it takes for other vaccines to be developed is simply waiting for large numbers of people to be naturally exposed to a disease to see if the vaccine provides protection. In this case there are so many places like the US where it is spreading like wildfire that this step was greatly shortened as compared to prior vaccines.

ChickenStash

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2020, 04:41:51 PM »
I'm a right-leaning moderate and I will most likely get the vaccine. My employer hasn't made a determination on if it will be a requirement for employment but I suspect it will - they already require flu shots and up to date immunizations for the usual childhood illnesses. Given that there are limited supplies and I'm in a low-risk demographic, I'll wait in the back of the line for others that need it more. I do have some concerns on the accelerated testing cycle but not enough to stop me from taking it.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2020, 05:19:49 PM »
I'll take the vaccine as soon as it's offered to me. Given my age and lack of health issues I assume that won't be until the late-summer or fall.

jamesbond007

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2020, 05:59:00 PM »
I'm slightly left-leaning and a solid no, at the moment. Studies, so far, have not tested likelihood of reducing asymptomatic spread, rather, only reduce likelihood of severe illness. I am not at risk of severe illness (young, healthy) and seeing as there is no known "greater good" in getting vaccinated, I'll pass. The risks of vaccination outweigh the risks of covid, in my case (MTHFR gene mutation, which generally doesn't play well with toxins and the like).

It's called the M*****F***** gene for a good reason.

Duke03

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2020, 06:08:50 PM »
I'm passing on the Vaccine for now.... Sorry, but we've never been able to develop a safe RNA vaccine yet, but in the last 6 months we've hit the jackpot and developed one that has a 95% effective rate that is supposedly safe, but no animal trials to back it up... Just look at the history of Vaccines that humans have gotten wrong and all the autoimmune conditions they have caused as a by product.  I'm by no means an anitvaxer either.  Just this one seems way to rushed to have gotten right on the first try.  Also before I'd even consider a vaccine I'd want an antibody test to see if I already carry the antibodies.  If I do why do I or anyone else that has the antibodies need a vaccine?

SpreadsheetMan

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #84 on: December 15, 2020, 12:44:53 AM »
I know little about vaccines or their development but I have followed with interest our friend @nippycrisp’s journal.
He FIREd from the pharmaceutical industry, participated in a vaccine trial, and used his journal to explain to us laypeople how the mRNA vaccine works and his confidence in it.

A thing he notes that I found interesting is that a lot of the time it takes for other vaccines to be developed is simply waiting for large numbers of people to be naturally exposed to a disease to see if the vaccine provides protection. In this case there are so many places like the US where it is spreading like wildfire that this step was greatly shortened as compared to prior vaccines.
I read that too.

There was discussion of the Astra/Oxford vaccine on uk tv last night and the Oxford vaccine group person said that it was likely that the FDA would want to see the results of the USA trial first before approving.The interviewer asked if that would cause a significant delay, the interviewee said no, there are so many infections that the trial can be really quick so it will only delay a few weeks rather than many months.

nippycrisp

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #85 on: December 15, 2020, 01:38:39 AM »
Yeah, I got the Moderna vaccine on August 2nd as part of the Phase 3. Checked my antibodies a couple of weeks ago and am positive for anti-Covid IgGs (the more persistent species, as opposed to the IgMs naturally infected people tend to throw off). My SO also received the vaccine in August, with the same result.

I wasn't a hardcore immunologist, but I've worked in the space quite a bit (neuroinflammation and transplantation biology) and have experience with some of the same technologies that makes mRNA-based vaccines possible. Given this familiarity, it was an absolute no-brainer for me to participate in the clinical trial and (as it worked out) skip the line.   

chemistk

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #86 on: December 15, 2020, 05:35:18 AM »
Yeah, I got the Moderna vaccine on August 2nd as part of the Phase 3. Checked my antibodies a couple of weeks ago and am positive for anti-Covid IgGs (the more persistent species, as opposed to the IgMs naturally infected people tend to throw off). My SO also received the vaccine in August, with the same result.

I wasn't a hardcore immunologist, but I've worked in the space quite a bit (neuroinflammation and transplantation biology) and have experience with some of the same technologies that makes mRNA-based vaccines possible. Given this familiarity, it was an absolute no-brainer for me to participate in the clinical trial and (as it worked out) skip the line.   

I know little about vaccines or their development but I have followed with interest our friend @nippycrisp’s journal.
He FIREd from the pharmaceutical industry, participated in a vaccine trial, and used his journal to explain to us laypeople how the mRNA vaccine works and his confidence in it.

A thing he notes that I found interesting is that a lot of the time it takes for other vaccines to be developed is simply waiting for large numbers of people to be naturally exposed to a disease to see if the vaccine provides protection. In this case there are so many places like the US where it is spreading like wildfire that this step was greatly shortened as compared to prior vaccines.

I'll heartily 'second' folks taking a peek into Mr. Crisp's journal. First, for some nice science-based discussion around the vaccines and then second - you might get a kick out of some of the stories if you flip back a few pages.

stoaX

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #87 on: December 15, 2020, 08:09:18 AM »
If I can get it at my doctors office or at the pharmacy then yes, I will get it.  If Joe Exotic is administering it via murder hornet then no, I won't. 

jamesbond007

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #88 on: December 15, 2020, 08:47:19 AM »
Can someone post a link to Mr. Crisp's journal? I can't seem to find it. It would be good to educate myself on the latest technology.

BiggerFishToFI

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #89 on: December 15, 2020, 09:03:01 AM »
I will probably get it once it is fully FDA approved, not just for emergency use. I am in a low-risk group.

chemistk

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #90 on: December 15, 2020, 12:19:56 PM »
Can someone post a link to Mr. Crisp's journal? I can't seem to find it. It would be good to educate myself on the latest technology.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/the-final-year/msg2752940/#msg2752940

yachi

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #91 on: December 15, 2020, 01:04:22 PM »
I'm slightly left-leaning and a solid no, at the moment. Studies, so far, have not tested likelihood of reducing asymptomatic spread, rather, only reduce likelihood of severe illness. I am not at risk of severe illness (young, healthy) and seeing as there is no known "greater good" in getting vaccinated, I'll pass. The risks of vaccination outweigh the risks of covid, in my case (MTHFR gene mutation, which generally doesn't play well with toxins and the like).

I've heard of the lack of data regarding spreading.  From all indications this vaccine is making your body an unfavorable place for the virus to be, it doesn't make sense to me that the vaccine would be suspected of doing nothing to reduce the spread.

Are there examples of vaccines or vaccine candidates that are effective against viruses, but don't reduce transmission?  Are STD medicines examples of treatments that reduce the illness but don't prevent transmission?  Is this just a case of scientists being cautions?

erutio

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #92 on: December 15, 2020, 01:26:16 PM »
What do posters who want additional testing time think should happen with the control group?  I heard questioning on the radio that maybe they would be discouraged from getting the vaccine  in order to remain the control group.  That sounds bit cold now that vaccines will be going out to all front line workers.

 Is it an ethical requirement in a medical trial that if the early data shows strong benefit of the treatment (and in this case, the data was strong enough for the EUA apply), the placebo arm must be unblinded and offered a chance to receive the treatment.

SpreadsheetMan

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #93 on: December 15, 2020, 02:48:08 PM »
I'm slightly left-leaning and a solid no, at the moment. Studies, so far, have not tested likelihood of reducing asymptomatic spread, rather, only reduce likelihood of severe illness. I am not at risk of severe illness (young, healthy) and seeing as there is no known "greater good" in getting vaccinated, I'll pass. The risks of vaccination outweigh the risks of covid, in my case (MTHFR gene mutation, which generally doesn't play well with toxins and the like).

I've heard of the lack of data regarding spreading.  From all indications this vaccine is making your body an unfavorable place for the virus to be, it doesn't make sense to me that the vaccine would be suspected of doing nothing to reduce the spread.

Are there examples of vaccines or vaccine candidates that are effective against viruses, but don't reduce transmission?  Are STD medicines examples of treatments that reduce the illness but don't prevent transmission?  Is this just a case of scientists being cautions?
As far as I can gather there is simply no data about whether a vaccinated person can still pass the virus on, so the scientists are being cautious. I don't blame them given that any scientific speculation is blown up way out of proportion by the hysterical media.

MissPeach

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #94 on: December 15, 2020, 04:45:22 PM »
Are there examples of vaccines or vaccine candidates that are effective against viruses, but don't reduce transmission?  Are STD medicines examples of treatments that reduce the illness but don't prevent transmission?  Is this just a case of scientists being cautions?

One of the pertussis vaccines is an example. I can't remember if it was TDaP or DTaP. It's a bacteria though rather than a virus. It gets marketed as a way to protect babies so it's given a lot of households with babies and pregnant women in addition to children. I remember reading in the studies that were done they didn't find any evidence it prevents transmission. This was at least as of about 10 years ago when I last looked into it. I don't know if there any anything else more current.

FWIW I lean liberal but I also read a lot in the medical space. I have some hesitancy with both the new technology and with our inability to develop good corona virus vaccines in general. For example there were a lot of negative side effects with the MERS and SARS ones. I'm a bit skeptical we hit the winning combination twice so quickly (Pfizer and Moderna).

I want to see more of the trial data and other write ups that will start coming through the medical journals soon. I read the Moderna trial data from the previous trial and I found a few concerns. There were a lot of serious side effects with the higher dose. I still haven't see anything about how the trials were designed to test for some of the serious reactions we found in the SARS and MERS trials in the animal phases. I believe the animal testing was skipped with both of these if i remember correctly.

There are still many unknowns at this time like transmission, how long it might last, etc. My risk isn't that high (younger, healthy, work from home, etc.) so even if it were available I would be waiting a bit until I can get more detailed information.

Unique User

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #95 on: December 17, 2020, 01:11:25 PM »
I'm enrolled in a phase 3 clinical trial for a vaccine (not pfizer or moderna) that will start in next month, but I'd get it regardless. 

nippycrisp

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2020, 02:20:48 PM »
What do posters who want additional testing time think should happen with the control group?  I heard questioning on the radio that maybe they would be discouraged from getting the vaccine  in order to remain the control group.  That sounds bit cold now that vaccines will be going out to all front line workers.

 Is it an ethical requirement in a medical trial that if the early data shows strong benefit of the treatment (and in this case, the data was strong enough for the EUA apply), the placebo arm must be unblinded and offered a chance to receive the treatment.

OK, so I got a message from the sponsors of the Moderna trial a few days ago. They say that once they get approval, volunteers are to be unblinded. Those who got the placebo are going to be offered the vaccine in the next 1-2 weeks.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #97 on: December 17, 2020, 04:25:03 PM »
Those who got the placebo are going to be offered the vaccine in the next 1-2 weeks.

Excellent.

jamesbond007

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #98 on: December 18, 2020, 08:02:40 AM »
I read a lot of material regarding mRNA and understood how it is implemented. Now I feel safe to take the vaccine. I am ready to take it whenever it is my turn.

Prairie Gal

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #99 on: December 21, 2020, 06:21:18 AM »
I will take it as soon as it is available to me. I think we are damn lucky that mRNA was already in development when the pandemic broke out.