Poll

If available to you, will you get a covid-19 vaccine in the next year?

Yes (liberal)
284 (66.4%)
Probably (liberal)
30 (7%)
No (liberal)
13 (3%)
Yes (conservative)
55 (12.9%)
Probably (conservative)
20 (4.7%)
No (conservative)
21 (4.9%)
I'm required to get a vaccine
2 (0.5%)
It's unsafe for me to get a vaccine
3 (0.7%)

Total Members Voted: 427

Author Topic: Will you get the vaccine?  (Read 25785 times)

Omy

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Will you get the vaccine?
« on: December 11, 2020, 06:48:18 AM »
I'm curious to see if partisanship affects our trust in the vaccines coming our way. If you consider yourself independent, I'm asking you to choose 1-3 if you lean the tiniest bit liberal or 4-6 if you lean the tiniest bit conservative. Regardless of political affiliation, if you are required by your job to be vaccinated or if your health is too compromised to take a vaccine, please choose 7 or 8.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 07:40:57 AM by Omy »

thesis

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2020, 07:33:23 AM »
No 'moderate' option? Also, I think 'liberal' and 'conservative' might be better terms here, as I don't consider myself a Republican ;)

Probably. I believe in due caution, but I am very pro-vaccine overall, and I'm a big fan of that 95% prevention rate, but I probably won't get it immediately. Plus, I'm younger, so I probably wouldn't be able to get one for awhile anyway.

Omy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2020, 07:37:41 AM »
I specifically wanted to see if politics affected choice which was why I don't have moderate options. I have edited to change to liberal and conservative.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 07:40:03 AM by Omy »

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2020, 07:38:56 AM »
I have some misgivings about the speed of development, but it'll likely be multiple months an many hundreds of thousands of people vaccinated before it's offered to me . . . so yeah, I'll get the vaccine if it's still seen as safe at that point.

thesis

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2020, 07:39:38 AM »
I specifically wanted to see if politics affected choice which was why I don't have moderate options. I will edit to change to liberal and conservative.

Ah, that's fair. I guess most people swing at least a little bit one way or the other :)

cangelosibrown

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2020, 07:42:23 AM »
No 'moderate' option? Also, I think 'liberal' and 'conservative' might be better terms here, as I don't consider myself a Republican ;)

Probably. I believe in due caution, but I am very pro-vaccine overall, and I'm a big fan of that 95% prevention rate, but I probably won't get it immediately. Plus, I'm younger, so I probably wouldn't be able to get one for awhile anyway.

Agreed, my stance at the moment is much more "straight ticket for whoever has the best chance of beating the republican" than "straight ticket Democrat" (even if both are 100% accurate if you looked at my ballot).

I'll definitely get the vaccine, at the earliest possible opportunity, though that will likely be a while. I know it seems like they haven't been testing these that long, but each of these vaccines has been given to tens of thousands of people. There's been enough trials with enough people, that if there were going to be any even slightly common serious side-effects, we would have almost certainly seen it by now.

I'm also curious about the partisanship answer, but I'm not expecting to see a large effect on this website. Also I'm really hoping that the lame-duck president's desperate attempts to take credit for any and all vaccine success will mitigate partisan effects some.

Omy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2020, 07:46:29 AM »
I also have concerns about the speed of vaccine development and testing. I'm a "yes" anyway. It will be months before I make it to the top of the priority list. If it appears safe at that point, I will get the vaccine so I can feel comfortable traveling and spending time with family and friends again.

Cranky

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2020, 08:25:46 AM »
Iím getting that vaccine the minute itís my turn!

Iím an old lefty, but itís not my politics that influence that decision, itís all the scientists in my family.

cangelosibrown

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2020, 08:33:48 AM »
I should add, that when asked this same question a few months ago, I was hedging enormously based on what would happen with the safety data, perceived influence of political pressure on the speed/decisions, etc. I think lots of fears about this process warranted a wait and see approach a few months ago. Now, however, we've waited and seen, and by all accounts no meaningful corners were cut in terms of testing the vaccine's safety.

Omy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2020, 08:37:54 AM »
Iím getting that vaccine the minute itís my turn!

Iím an old lefty, but itís not my politics that influence that decision, itís all the scientists in my family.
Maybe you're a lefty because you believe in science?

Hula Hoop

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2020, 09:07:29 AM »
I'll be getting it, most probably.  However, I also have a lot of allergies and I read that two of the British people who received the Pfizer vaccine have had allergic reactions so they've urged caution for allergic types, like me.

ixtap

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2020, 09:18:27 AM »
I specifically wanted to see if politics affected choice which was why I don't have moderate options. I have edited to change to liberal and conservative.

That really doesn't explain why you eliminated a whole swath of the political spectrum.

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2020, 09:21:31 AM »
Now, however, we've waited and seen, and by all accounts no meaningful corners were cut in terms of testing the vaccine's safety.


Can you tell me what sort of longevity testing was done for the various coronavirus vaccines, and how this compares with regular vaccine development?

(While I understand the reasoning behind cutting this corner, it is a rather glaring omission made in terms of testing the vaccine's safety to make the claim that you did.)

Malcat

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2020, 09:22:46 AM »
I'll be getting it.

I'm just used to drugs coming with fucked up risks. This vaccine is probably the least risky thing I'll have injected this year.

I'm far more concerned about the well documented "anything's possible" risks of covid infection.

Omy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2020, 09:25:01 AM »
From ixtap: That really doesn't explain why you eliminated a whole swath of the political spectrum.

If you are apolitical or forced to get (or not get) the vaccine, then politics are not a factor for you at all. For this poll, I'm only curious about how partisanship might affect our trust in the vaccine.

therethere

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2020, 09:36:04 AM »
I'm skeptical. But I need to GTFO of the US for my sanity for my annual vacation. So I'll be getting it if required for international travel.

Sugaree

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2020, 09:42:17 AM »
I'm leaning towards waiting to get it in late-spring to early summer.  I have international travel planned for the first two weeks of June, so I'd like to have it by then.

dodojojo

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2020, 10:01:42 AM »
There will be millions vaccinated before it gets to my turn.  I'm a bit concerned for my mother, who is in an age group to be fast tracked for vaccination.  But as she's "only" 69 and on Medicare so she may have to wait a little bit. 

As long as there aren't reports of festering boils on our faces as a side effect, I'll be getting vaccinated.  I live very far away from family and I want to see them soon.

MudPuppy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2020, 10:11:00 AM »
I already have an appointment for later this month and am point person for the employee vaccination clinic at my full time hospital.

I work a high exposure healthcare job and I am so, so tired. Not just working extra, but tired of sickness and death.


Left as hell, but that is not a factor in my decision making.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2020, 10:13:47 AM »
They mentioned it may not be recommended for pregnant women. We cannot forget the wonder drug Thalidomide that caused missing limbs on babies back in the 1950's.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/sep/01/thalidomide-scandal-timeline

I hope pregnant women hold off taking the drug till after they give birth.

MudPuppy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2020, 10:22:29 AM »
I donít understand your post. Itís listed as a contraindication for receiving the vaccine.

Tass

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2020, 10:24:23 AM »
I will get it the moment I'm allowed and promptly visit the family I haven't seen all year.

I'm a molecular biologist and share a campus with some of the country's top academic COVID experts. That's a stronger driver than my politics, although you can probably approximate my politics from the same information.

seemsright

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2020, 10:25:03 AM »
I think we will all be 'forced' to take the vaccine.

Want your kid to go to school... Vaccine, want to walk into the school building...Vaccine

Want to travel via Airplane...Vaccine. Want to go into any government building...Vaccine.

I think the powers to be will make it very very VERY hard to have a 'normal' life if you do not have this Vaccine.

I need more data before I make the decision if I or my kid will have this vaccine.   

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2020, 10:40:38 AM »
I'd be first in line but I'm low risk and have a history of severe allergic reaction, so we'll see when I finally get one.

Want to travel via Airplane...Vaccine.

Possibly, almost like Yellow Fever today but with more destinations requiring it.

ixtap

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2020, 10:43:36 AM »
From ixtap: That really doesn't explain why you eliminated a whole swath of the political spectrum.

If you are apolitical or forced to get (or not get) the vaccine, then politics are not a factor for you at all. For this poll, I'm only curious about how partisanship might affect our trust in the vaccine.

Moderate is not equal to apolitical.

cangelosibrown

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2020, 10:51:09 AM »
I think we will all be 'forced' to take the vaccine.

Want your kid to go to school... Vaccine, want to walk into the school building...Vaccine

Want to travel via Airplane...Vaccine. Want to go into any government building...Vaccine.

I think the powers to be will make it very very VERY hard to have a 'normal' life if you do not have this Vaccine.

I need more data before I make the decision if I or my kid will have this vaccine.

What sort of data? The sort of data that career scientists who have spent decades studying to make this exact decision are looking at this week?

I think it's worth mentioning that anti-vaxxer sentiment is high enough, and combined with the huge amount of covid-denier/conspiracy, this puts the incentives for the FDA in direction of being MUCH more cautious in approving this than they logically should be if it were just a question of whether this will save lives. They have to take into account that any serious side effects, no matter how rare,  will put huge swaths of people off from taking ANY vaccine, and cost huge amounts of lives for years to come.  I see absolutely no reason to doubt anything the FDA approves. And Canada and the UK, which I trust plenty, have already approved the Pfizer vaccine.

jamesbond007

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2020, 10:58:06 AM »
I am a rationalist married to a rationalist pharmacist. I am pro-science. Having said that, I would want to wait and see what the potential long-term impacts are. This was a rush job, at least felt like one. I want to see more details on the long-term impacts on different racial gene pools (I am not white). I guess by the time I get my number in line, it will be another year anyway so hopefully it would be clear by then.

Tass

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2020, 11:00:44 AM »
I am a rationalist

at least felt like one

Hmmm.

EDIT: I think that feeling cautious is a natural, even correct, reaction. I am glad we demand transparency and evidence from our government, and a bit of distrust is crucial to that. I just also think we should be honest about when we're acting on feelings instead of data.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 11:03:59 AM by Tass »

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2020, 11:04:24 AM »
I think we will all be 'forced' to take the vaccine.

Want your kid to go to school... Vaccine, want to walk into the school building...Vaccine

Want to travel via Airplane...Vaccine. Want to go into any government building...Vaccine.

I think the powers to be will make it very very VERY hard to have a 'normal' life if you do not have this Vaccine.

I need more data before I make the decision if I or my kid will have this vaccine.

What sort of data? The sort of data that career scientists who have spent decades studying to make this exact decision are looking at this week?

The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.


I think it's worth mentioning that anti-vaxxer sentiment is high enough, and combined with the huge amount of covid-denier/conspiracy, this puts the incentives for the FDA in direction of being MUCH more cautious in approving this than they logically should be if it were just a question of whether this will save lives. They have to take into account that any serious side effects, no matter how rare,  will put huge swaths of people off from taking ANY vaccine, and cost huge amounts of lives for years to come.  I see absolutely no reason to doubt anything the FDA approves. And Canada and the UK, which I trust plenty, have already approved the Pfizer vaccine.

This is a weird statement to make.  Earlier you argued that we need to place our faith in science.  Now I'm hearing an argument that fear of political pressure (from anti-vax people) changes the way that science is done . . . which fundamentally misunderstands the whole scientific process.

At the end of the day we have a process for producing vaccines.  This process has been shortcut to give us a vaccine faster for covid.  A huge amount of effort and testing has been done on the coronavirus vaccines to make them as safe as possible.  The vaccine is as safe as we can make it right now.  We are missing out on some testing data that normally would have be done though.

v8rx7guy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2020, 11:11:25 AM »
I am a rationalist married to a rationalist pharmacist. I am pro-science. Having said that, I would want to wait and see what the potential long-term impacts are. This was a rush job, at least felt like one. I want to see more details on the long-term impacts on different racial gene pools (I am not white). I guess by the time I get my number in line, it will be another year anyway so hopefully it would be clear by then.

One year is going to make you confident in the LONG TERM impacts?  How is that rational?

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2020, 11:17:23 AM »
I am a rationalist married to a rationalist pharmacist. I am pro-science. Having said that, I would want to wait and see what the potential long-term impacts are. This was a rush job, at least felt like one. I want to see more details on the long-term impacts on different racial gene pools (I am not white). I guess by the time I get my number in line, it will be another year anyway so hopefully it would be clear by then.

One year is going to make you confident in the LONG TERM impacts?  How is that rational?

One year (and likely millions of doses handed) more than doubles the data we have about long term impacts.  It increases the distribution data size by orders of magnitude.  It will also increase our understanding of the risks related to covid, so better able to compare and contrast both.

Don't you think that this all improves confidence?

v8rx7guy

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2020, 11:22:03 AM »
I am a rationalist married to a rationalist pharmacist. I am pro-science. Having said that, I would want to wait and see what the potential long-term impacts are. This was a rush job, at least felt like one. I want to see more details on the long-term impacts on different racial gene pools (I am not white). I guess by the time I get my number in line, it will be another year anyway so hopefully it would be clear by then.

One year is going to make you confident in the LONG TERM impacts?  How is that rational?

One year (and likely millions of doses handed) more than doubles the data we have about long term impacts.  It increases the distribution data size by orders of magnitude.  It will also increase our understanding of the risks related to covid, so better able to compare and contrast both.

Don't you think that this all improves confidence?

I think it improves confidence in long term side affects... but irrationally.  We won't know the long term affects in a year, just like we don't know the long term affects of COVID currently.  Not much time has elapsed. It's possible that I have a different perspective on what long term means with respect to a vaccine.  It's also possible that somehow short term results can give long term confidence when large numbers are involved?  Honestly, not sure.  Just seems weird to say that someone will have confidence in something long term after one year.  Why not 11 months?  Why not 4 years?

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2020, 11:25:59 AM »
I am a rationalist married to a rationalist pharmacist. I am pro-science. Having said that, I would want to wait and see what the potential long-term impacts are. This was a rush job, at least felt like one. I want to see more details on the long-term impacts on different racial gene pools (I am not white). I guess by the time I get my number in line, it will be another year anyway so hopefully it would be clear by then.

One year is going to make you confident in the LONG TERM impacts?  How is that rational?

One year (and likely millions of doses handed) more than doubles the data we have about long term impacts.  It increases the distribution data size by orders of magnitude.  It will also increase our understanding of the risks related to covid, so better able to compare and contrast both.

Don't you think that this all improves confidence?

I think it improves confidence in long term side affects... but irrationally.  We won't know the long term affects in a year, just like we don't know the long term affects of COVID currently.  Not much time has elapsed. It's possible that I have a different perspective on what long term means with respect to a vaccine.  It's also possible that somehow short term results can give long term confidence when large numbers are involved?  Honestly, not sure.  Just seems weird to say that someone will have confidence in something long term after one year.  Why not 11 months?  Why not 4 years?

Confidence isn't binary.  It increases over time with evidence.  2 years is much better than under 1 year for confidence.

I think you're confusing confidence with certainty here.  We won't be able to say that the vaccine is safe with certainty for a very long time.

Cranky

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2020, 11:26:19 AM »
Yeah, a year is not ďlong termĒ.

cangelosibrown

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2020, 11:28:20 AM »
I think we will all be 'forced' to take the vaccine.

Want your kid to go to school... Vaccine, want to walk into the school building...Vaccine

Want to travel via Airplane...Vaccine. Want to go into any government building...Vaccine.

I think the powers to be will make it very very VERY hard to have a 'normal' life if you do not have this Vaccine.

I need more data before I make the decision if I or my kid will have this vaccine.

What sort of data? The sort of data that career scientists who have spent decades studying to make this exact decision are looking at this week?

The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.


I think it's worth mentioning that anti-vaxxer sentiment is high enough, and combined with the huge amount of covid-denier/conspiracy, this puts the incentives for the FDA in direction of being MUCH more cautious in approving this than they logically should be if it were just a question of whether this will save lives. They have to take into account that any serious side effects, no matter how rare,  will put huge swaths of people off from taking ANY vaccine, and cost huge amounts of lives for years to come.  I see absolutely no reason to doubt anything the FDA approves. And Canada and the UK, which I trust plenty, have already approved the Pfizer vaccine.

This is a weird statement to make.  Earlier you argued that we need to place our faith in science.  Now I'm hearing an argument that fear of political pressure (from anti-vax people) changes the way that science is done . . . which fundamentally misunderstands the whole scientific process.

At the end of the day we have a process for producing vaccines.  This process has been shortcut to give us a vaccine faster for covid.  A huge amount of effort and testing has been done on the coronavirus vaccines to make them as safe as possible.  The vaccine is as safe as we can make it right now.  We are missing out on some testing data that normally would have be done though.

"Science" isn't a thing, and there's no way to put faith in it. There's only people and their collected knowledge, methodologies and interests.

I'm simply talking about the incentives to the FDA because I think they're important. The truth is the question they're answering is a different question than "Should I, Cangelosi Brown, take this vaccine." They're asking a question closer to "Will American society be better or worse if we approve this vaccine," although it's a much more nuanced ethical version of that than my extremely simplified utilitarian reduction.

For example the fact that you will likely feel pretty lousy for a day or two after the vaccine is given very little weight by the FDA. You might give it more weight than that.

If the FDA's incentives were hugely pushed in the direction of "approve anything because so many people are dying that any possible side-effects are meaningless in context," which is what I think a lot of people are assuming, based on the responses here and elsewhere,  then that might lead me to a different personal decision. I might decide to skip it for a while and just wear a mask and avoid people for a while longer.

But, and this is just my supposition, the FDA's incentives are in the opposite direction of that. They're overweighting individual safety when they make this decision, because of external factors such as anti-vaxxers. So I see no reason why their decision to approve nationally wouldn't be well above my threshold to approve it personally (i.e. taking it)

cangelosibrown

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2020, 11:32:38 AM »
Yeah, a year is not ďlong termĒ.

I feel like this is a question we have a ton of data on that is nearly completely transferable from other vaccines. Has there ever been a vaccine that had effects that weren't immediately apparent? There might be, but I'm certainly not aware of it. There's vaccines with a risk of infection (some polio vaccines), there's nearly always a risk of auto-immune stuff (eg guillain barre), but those are both apparent very quickly. If we have decades and decades of data on vaccine safety that have no suggestion that long-term consequences are an issue for this sort of thing (and all vaccines are basically the exact same sort of thing), then I don't think it's something we need to worry much about here.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2020, 11:33:59 AM »
I wish you had an option for moderate, because liberals and conservatives are both crazy people right now.

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2020, 11:40:00 AM »
The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.

You can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before. Specifically, there was SARS-CoV-1 vaccine data being published in 2012 and AFAIK it was used as a basis for the Oxford vaccine. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

yachi

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2020, 11:41:17 AM »
What do posters who want additional testing time think should happen with the control group?  I heard questioning on the radio that maybe they would be discouraged from getting the vaccine  in order to remain the control group.  That sounds bit cold now that vaccines will be going out to all front line workers.

I think it's easy for the people in the control group to figure out if they did or did not receive the vaccine (antibody testing, looking over their reactions to the vaccination).

yachi

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2020, 11:48:13 AM »
The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.

You can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before. Specifically, there was SARS-CoV-1 vaccine data being published in 2012 and AFAIK it was used as a basis for the Oxford vaccine. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

"In Massachusetts, the Moderna vaccine design took all of one weekend."
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2020, 11:52:33 AM »
The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.

You can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before. Specifically, there was SARS-CoV-1 vaccine data being published in 2012 and AFAIK it was used as a basis for the Oxford vaccine. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

"In Massachusetts, the Moderna vaccine design took all of one weekend."
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html

Except not really. That's like me spinning up a new embedded Linux system in a weekend and acting like I wrote the whole kernel from scratch. We spent the last 100 years building those tools.

Anyway, if you don't want an mRNA vaccine wait for the conventional and I'll happily take your mRNA dose.

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2020, 11:58:10 AM »
The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.

You can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before. Specifically, there was SARS-CoV-1 vaccine data being published in 2012 and AFAIK it was used as a basis for the Oxford vaccine. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

Many vaccines have been developed and not approved for general distribution.  That's a dishonest argument though because you're comparing apples and oranges.  Didn't think that this would be required to add, but by 'developed a vaccine' I mean 'developed a vaccine that was approved for general distribution'.

Kris

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2020, 12:02:54 PM »
I will definitely be getting the vaccine. I didn't vote, however, because "liberal" is not what I am at all, though I do lean left.

Zikoris

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2020, 12:10:26 PM »
I put probably (conservative). I won't have the option of getting it for quite a long time due to it being done in phases in my province, with "healthy young adults" being second to last in line for vaccination after about ten other categories. It will be about four or five months before it's even an option, and I'll be paying attention to how it's going for other people during that time, with regards to side effects, effectiveness, etc.

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2020, 12:38:30 PM »
The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.

You can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before. Specifically, there was SARS-CoV-1 vaccine data being published in 2012 and AFAIK it was used as a basis for the Oxford vaccine. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

Many vaccines have been developed and not approved for general distribution.  That's a dishonest argument though because you're comparing apples and oranges.  Didn't think that this would be required to add, but by 'developed a vaccine' I mean 'developed a vaccine that was approved for general distribution'.

I don't follow your logic, at all. Please elaborate.

FINate

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2020, 12:43:35 PM »
I'll be getting the vaccine ASAP, but didn't vote because I'm a moderate and neither conservative or liberal. IMO, those labels have lost almost all meaning in the US.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2020, 01:02:37 PM »
I'm surprised after 50-60 votes I'm the first one who voted for required.

I would say I lean conservative and would get the vaccine if it were not going to be required by the military. I'm not 100% sure I'll be required, but pretty close. We're required to get annual flu shots and it's tracked down to the individual person and each unit is expected to get to 95%+. I was required to get a yellow fever vaccine to go to Africa and was required to take anti-malaria pills every day as well, so I can't imagine this will be any different.

mistymoney

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2020, 01:16:50 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/politics/white-house-fda-chief-approve-covid-vaccine-resign/index.html

well - this doesn't exactly inspire confidence

Quote
Washington (CNN)White House chief of staff Mark Meadows told Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn he needed to grant an emergency use authorization for Pfizer/BioNTech's coronavirus vaccine by the end of Friday, and if not, he needs to resign, an administration official and a source familiar with the situation tell CNN.

PDXTabs

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2020, 01:18:44 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/politics/white-house-fda-chief-approve-covid-vaccine-resign/index.html

well - this doesn't exactly inspire confidence

Quote
Washington (CNN)White House chief of staff Mark Meadows told Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn he needed to grant an emergency use authorization for Pfizer/BioNTech's coronavirus vaccine by the end of Friday, and if not, he needs to resign, an administration official and a source familiar with the situation tell CNN.

Yes, there is certainly something to be said for gaining more confidence as more western democracies approve the same vaccines.

GuitarStv

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Re: Will you get the vaccine?
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2020, 01:20:28 PM »
The sort of data that career scientists who have spend decades studying don't currently have because nobody has it because we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before and had to cut some of the safety practices we usually perform to do so.

You can argue that the clinical safely trials were rushed but you can not argue that we've never developed a vaccine this quickly before. Specifically, there was SARS-CoV-1 vaccine data being published in 2012 and AFAIK it was used as a basis for the Oxford vaccine. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

Many vaccines have been developed and not approved for general distribution.  That's a dishonest argument though because you're comparing apples and oranges.  Didn't think that this would be required to add, but by 'developed a vaccine' I mean 'developed a vaccine that was approved for general distribution'.

I don't follow your logic, at all. Please elaborate.

Should be pretty straight forward.

The SARS-CoV-1 vaccine was never fully developed.  It didn't pass all stages of testing and was not approved for general use in humans.  Development time for it can't fairly be compared with the development time for the coronavirus vaccines that are being released to people on a very large scale right now.