Author Topic: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...  (Read 22405 times)

auntie_betty

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #100 on: December 12, 2016, 01:07:31 AM »
Quote
It does translate to years of work though, and I worry my frustration now might seem mild compared to the final three years of my career, when I will know I'm there for the sake of a bunch of merchandise which by then will be buried in a landfill and a bunch of crappy restaurant meals that long ago became river water.

No, you'll be there because you compromised on things which made your wife happy.

Quote
Cheap Bastard - it sounds like you really despise your job and your beige cubical.  We've all been there.  Until you can reach FI, could you move to a job you actually enjoy? This might include going down a notch in pay for more enjoyment.  Personally, I'd rather work 10 years at a job I really like than 6 years at a job I really hate. You could also look into semi retired life for those final years.  Get a part time job doing something you really enjoy that is nothing like your current career.  I'd work at a doggy daycare for example.

This is a really good point. You're lucky you have a wife who is not financially motivated and presumably would support your decision to move to a lesser paying but more rewarding job.

You've said your wife doesn't set long term goals but likes to travel. How about a compromise then? Can you think of a trip you could take with a little one. How could you achieve that fairly frugally, using loyalty points etc? Once you've priced it up then suggest it to your wife and ask if she'd halve the restaurant budget for 6-12 months to pay for it. Then go and enjoy a family vacation without bitching about how many weeks earlier you could have FIRE'd if you hadn't gone.

If it goes well then is the time to say 'wouldn't it be great if we could do this and then not have to go back to work the next day'?

tanzee

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2016, 06:57:23 AM »
No, because you aren't funny. You sound entirely unhinged. Don't go into writing or comedy. And while I share your values, I'm rooting for your wife to kick you to the curb at this point. She kept you guys on track all these years, BIRTHED YOUR CHILD, has acquiesced to MASSIVE CHANGES over the last 10 months, and now you're whining that the poor woman is reluctant to give up the things she values and the things that bring her joy after her husband went insane?

Your frustration is petty and unreasonable. Your 20% is unreasonable. The line of reasonableness is wherever you want it to be, but since you said you didn't want to end up getting divorced, I'm going to go with the line being somewhere in the vicinity of 'my husband went insane and I divorced him when he started completely ignoring me as a human being with thoughts, feelings, and goals of my own and only treated me like a walking paycheck.'

x 1,000,000 to the power of googolplex

Cheap Bastard, pay no mind.  These folks need to watch some Bill Hicks/George Carlin/Louis CK/Bill Burr and have a stiff drink.  Life isn't all rainbows and kittens.  Might as well laugh about it.  Touchy crowd.

Gallows humor is dead. Hyperbole is an alien concept. Laughing at one's own predicament seems insincere in a narcissistic age.

But I will say this. The humor helps you see your own absurdities sometimes. What doom would await us if we were blind to that?

Amen.

tanzee

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2016, 07:00:51 AM »
No, because you aren't funny. You sound entirely unhinged. Don't go into writing or comedy. And while I share your values, I'm rooting for your wife to kick you to the curb at this point. She kept you guys on track all these years, BIRTHED YOUR CHILD, has acquiesced to MASSIVE CHANGES over the last 10 months, and now you're whining that the poor woman is reluctant to give up the things she values and the things that bring her joy after her husband went insane?

Your frustration is petty and unreasonable. Your 20% is unreasonable. The line of reasonableness is wherever you want it to be, but since you said you didn't want to end up getting divorced, I'm going to go with the line being somewhere in the vicinity of 'my husband went insane and I divorced him when he started completely ignoring me as a human being with thoughts, feelings, and goals of my own and only treated me like a walking paycheck.'

x 1,000,000 to the power of googolplex

Cheap Bastard, pay no mind.  These folks need to watch some Bill Hicks/George Carlin/Louis CK/Bill Burr and have a stiff drink.  Life isn't all rainbows and kittens.  Might as well laugh about it.  Touchy crowd.

It's true, I am entirely devoid of a sense of humor, especially when it comes to men shitting on their wives. I'm just sensitive that way. \_(ツ)_/

It was just such obvious hyperbole.  I have a hard time seeing how anyone took the OP's suggestions of bribery, extortion, etc. seriously.  The guy is probably perfectly kind to his wife, but experiences pretty normal differences of opinion and appropriately vents about it on an online message board.  The responses made it out like he was some sort of abusive husband.  Christ. 

tanzee

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2016, 07:07:15 AM »
No, because you aren't funny. You sound entirely unhinged. Don't go into writing or comedy. And while I share your values, I'm rooting for your wife to kick you to the curb at this point. She kept you guys on track all these years, BIRTHED YOUR CHILD, has acquiesced to MASSIVE CHANGES over the last 10 months, and now you're whining that the poor woman is reluctant to give up the things she values and the things that bring her joy after her husband went insane?

Your frustration is petty and unreasonable. Your 20% is unreasonable. The line of reasonableness is wherever you want it to be, but since you said you didn't want to end up getting divorced, I'm going to go with the line being somewhere in the vicinity of 'my husband went insane and I divorced him when he started completely ignoring me as a human being with thoughts, feelings, and goals of my own and only treated me like a walking paycheck.'

x 1,000,000 to the power of googolplex

Cheap Bastard, pay no mind.  These folks need to watch some Bill Hicks/George Carlin/Louis CK/Bill Burr and have a stiff drink.  Life isn't all rainbows and kittens.  Might as well laugh about it.  Touchy crowd.

Text is a terrible medium for sarcasm, especially when your audience thought you were being earnest...

Agreed, but come on: "competitive extortion", "shaming"?  People really take that seriously?  There is a difference between subtle sarcasm that is easily taken seriously and blatant, clear as day exaggeration.  Or maybe the pre-requisite for participating in any online activity should be living in New England for at least three years to learn basic Sarcasm.  Do I need to put a disclaimer on that?  ...I'm not actually in favor of government enforced relocation to New England...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 07:10:11 AM by tanzee »

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #104 on: December 12, 2016, 08:45:27 AM »
No, because you aren't funny. You sound entirely unhinged. Don't go into writing or comedy. And while I share your values, I'm rooting for your wife to kick you to the curb at this point. She kept you guys on track all these years, BIRTHED YOUR CHILD, has acquiesced to MASSIVE CHANGES over the last 10 months, and now you're whining that the poor woman is reluctant to give up the things she values and the things that bring her joy after her husband went insane?

Your frustration is petty and unreasonable. Your 20% is unreasonable. The line of reasonableness is wherever you want it to be, but since you said you didn't want to end up getting divorced, I'm going to go with the line being somewhere in the vicinity of 'my husband went insane and I divorced him when he started completely ignoring me as a human being with thoughts, feelings, and goals of my own and only treated me like a walking paycheck.'

x 1,000,000 to the power of googolplex

Cheap Bastard, pay no mind.  These folks need to watch some Bill Hicks/George Carlin/Louis CK/Bill Burr and have a stiff drink.  Life isn't all rainbows and kittens.  Might as well laugh about it.  Touchy crowd.

Text is a terrible medium for sarcasm, especially when your audience thought you were being earnest...

Agreed, but come on: "competitive extortion", "shaming"?  People really take that seriously?  There is a difference between subtle sarcasm that is easily taken seriously and blatant, clear as day exaggeration.  Or maybe the pre-requisite for participating in any online activity should be living in New England for at least three years to learn basic Sarcasm.  Do I need to put a disclaimer on that?  ...I'm not actually in favor of government enforced relocation to New England...

Yup. Probably because ChpBstd misjudged his audience. This thread is one of his first posts, so the forumites have no prior knowledge of his baseline personality, from which we can judge hyperbole and sarcasm. And he posted in Ask A Mustachian, where tyro's posting case studies are often combative, surly, and don't address genuinely helpful posts. He also posted on a fourm that contains a whole sub-thread dedicated sole to, yup, shaming. Based on that scant information, why not take ChpBstd at his word about his 4-step plan? The audience simply isn't primed for sarcasm, and ChpBstd failed to break the surface assumptions and cue people into his humor.

I asked a question before, but I got ignored. Here's what I wonder: So ChpBstrd, if your wife found this, would she be surprised or upset? If no, carry on, and maybe get her to chime in. If yes, then you probably shouldn't be doing it, eh. Be as funny as you want, but as far as I can tell, there's an edge to your humor that's being driven into someone else. Why should I laugh?

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #105 on: December 12, 2016, 09:07:18 AM »
*snipped quotes*

Yup. Probably because ChpBstd misjudged his audience. This thread is one of his first posts, so the forumites have no prior knowledge of his baseline personality, from which we can judge hyperbole and sarcasm. And he posted in Ask A Mustachian, where tyro's posting case studies are often combative, surly, and don't address genuinely helpful posts. He also posted on a fourm that contains a whole sub-thread dedicated sole to, yup, shaming. Based on that scant information, why not take ChpBstd at his word about his 4-step plan? The audience simply isn't primed for sarcasm, and ChpBstd failed to break the surface assumptions and cue people into his humor.

I asked a question before, but I got ignored. Here's what I wonder: So ChpBstrd, if your wife found this, would she be surprised or upset? If no, carry on, and maybe get her to chime in. If yes, then you probably shouldn't be doing it, eh. Be as funny as you want, but as far as I can tell, there's an edge to your humor that's being driven into someone else. Why should I laugh?

+1.  I agree completely.

BFGirl

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #106 on: December 12, 2016, 09:12:55 AM »
Thanks all. I also have some potentially passive-aggressive semi-ethical strategies and need some second opinions:

1) HUNGER STRIKE: When we go to a restaurant, occasionally don't order anything. Explain that I'd rather the money to go savings. Lead by example and learn self control simultaneously.

2) BRIBERY: When the wife is about to buy something, offer "If you don't buy that trinket, I'll give you a 20 minute back massage tonight." And that's how you work for your spouse at $100/hour. The risk is that more trinkets are considered in exchange for more back rubs.

3) COMPETITIVE EXTORTION & SHAMING: Separate my and her credit card accounts. Pay for household necessities only from a third account. Watch who spends more on themselves.

4) CUT LOOSE: Un-merge our finances. Contribute half and half to a shared household expense account. If we as a couple need $1.5M to retire, either of us can retire as soon as we individually have saved $750k. The risk being that the deal might not be upheld after the first one hits their number.

Too far?

I haven't read through this whole thread and probably won't because it royally pissed me off.

I may be a little sensitive on this subject, but I was married to someone who sounds a lot like you.  His inflexibility and constant looking down on me for my spending habits did an awful lot to destroy the marriage.  We were probably saving at least 50% of our income.  He wanted to save every penny he could.  I got reamed about purchasing $1.00 spagehtti sauce instead of $.75 spaghetti sauce.  I wanted to retire early (he didn't), save for college for the kids, save for vacations and have some discretionary funds.  Every time I tried to talk to him about a different approach or different ideas or compromise, I was stonewalled.  I started spending money I wouldn't have normally spent in revenge (It got crazy bad for a while).  His inability to compromise with me on money or even work out a joint plan was the number one factor in killing our marriage.  You need to decide if you want to be married.  If you do, the relationship needs to be the most important thing. If you don't give a shit about your wife or her feelings then proceed on ahead.

BTW, I finally divorced him and my life and my kids lives are so much less stressful without a man who was obsessed with saving every fucking penny that came into his hands.

(edit...maybe this was all hyperbole, I don't know, but it hits too close to home for me as my husband actually did these sorts of things...feel free to disregard my post if you like)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 09:52:08 AM by BFGirl »

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #107 on: December 12, 2016, 10:08:25 AM »
One other thought  - if the reason she likes to eat out is because she likes fancy food, try to replicate it at home.  I don't think you can slash your grocery budget and your eating out budget at the same time.  My husband and I rarely eat out anymore but that is because we eat like kings at home.  Yeah, our grocery budget is higher than someone who doesn't eat lamb, steak, lobster, pork loin - but we are saving thousands by cooking it ourselves.  A one pound lobster is $6 at my grocery store and $25 at the local restaurant. We can make a gourmet meal for 2 for $15 that would be $100+ if we ate out.

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #108 on: December 12, 2016, 10:12:54 AM »
Don't forget, if she divorces YOU for being a stingy miser, that will cost you WAY WAY WAY more than the 5-10k a year that you are talking about.

My mother didn't divorce my father (he died of cancer first) but 30 years later she still complains about his stinginess.

Find a compromise. Make small gains. Find a way to do it together so you both feel you are achieving what you want.

tanzee

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #109 on: December 12, 2016, 10:13:39 AM »

[/quote]

Yup. Probably because ChpBstd misjudged his audience. This thread is one of his first posts, so the forumites have no prior knowledge of his baseline personality, from which we can judge hyperbole and sarcasm. And he posted in Ask A Mustachian, where tyro's posting case studies are often combative, surly, and don't address genuinely helpful posts. He also posted on a fourm that contains a whole sub-thread dedicated sole to, yup, shaming. Based on that scant information, why not take ChpBstd at his word about his 4-step plan? The audience simply isn't primed for sarcasm, and ChpBstd failed to break the surface assumptions and cue people into his humor.

I asked a question before, but I got ignored. Here's what I wonder: So ChpBstrd, if your wife found this, would she be surprised or upset? If no, carry on, and maybe get her to chime in. If yes, then you probably shouldn't be doing it, eh. Be as funny as you want, but as far as I can tell, there's an edge to your humor that's being driven into someone else. Why should I laugh?
[/quote]

Seriously?  We are in the forum of a blog written by the King of Hyperbole.  Facepunches, bedpans, catheters.  Shall I go on?  This is exactly the type of hair trigger moral outrage makes the internet less and less fun. 

honeybbq

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #110 on: December 12, 2016, 10:15:15 AM »

I've always been that guy who starts a 5k running as hard as he can and finishes walking. So I'll give it a while, consolidate our pace for a year or so, and try some of the slow-road-to-persuasion methods mentioned in other posts.



There's no running program in the world that suggests that method. In fact, the concept of NEGATIVE SPLITS is actually one that suggests you are running to your full potential. :)

v8rx7guy

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #111 on: December 12, 2016, 10:41:14 AM »
I haven't read through this whole thread and probably won't because it royally pissed me off.

You should

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #112 on: December 12, 2016, 11:00:13 AM »
So I discovered FI blogs like MMM about 10 months ago, did my own math, and realized that with a net worth of around 500k, the wife and I (ages 35 and 38 with one 2 year old kid) could FIRE comfortably in less than 10 years. I was ecstatic. I wanted to do whatever it takes to make that 7-8 years instead. Years of low-level frugality was going to pay off! Our dreams were within reach.

So here we are with incompatible life goals and a feeling that we are interfering with one another's well-being. She resents me groaning when a new $30 piece of "decor" arrives to clutter up our already-too-big house. She's irritated by my struggles not to resort to restaurant food when it's late and we're away from home. My few wins have been maxing out her 403 (b) and my 401 (k) deductions, maxing our Roth contributions, insulating the attic myself, keeping our 2 cars semi-frugal (5-6 year old subcompacts), carpooling when it's convenient, using a 2% cash back card, switching insurance and raising the deductibles, switching to an interest-paying free checking account, having a yard sale, vacationing frugally, using FSA's, and buying a little bit of baby stuff used instead of new. Setting the thermostat to 68 in the winter and 75 in the summer have started to become the norm. I've cancelled most of my hobbies.

Which path would you take? I wonder how hard I can pull before the strong breaks?
This stood out, our dreams was used in place of your dream. You signed up and she didn't and you're replacing her dreams with your own.

My remedy would be to phrase FIRE differently. Instead od saying we can leave our jobs you can say we'll spend more time with the children. It's the same thing but one is an aspirational goal to reach for and the other is a goal of leaving something behind. Try figuring out what her goals in life are first and build from there.

What are your plans post-fire? FIRE is just a milestone; what do you plan on doing afterwards and have you described it to your wife?

humbleMouse

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #113 on: December 12, 2016, 12:03:29 PM »
Yikes, this thread is turning into the latest season of southpark. 

On topic though, I think OP needs to settle down and work more on finding out what his wife's long term goals are.  Saving 50% is amazing.  Perhaps the OP should focus on increasing his income to reach FI earlier if it's so important to get that extra 10k/year.

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #114 on: December 12, 2016, 12:11:31 PM »
Quote from: Sailor Sam
Yup. Probably because ChpBstd misjudged his audience. This thread is one of his first posts, so the forumites have no prior knowledge of his baseline personality, from which we can judge hyperbole and sarcasm. And he posted in Ask A Mustachian, where tyro's posting case studies are often combative, surly, and don't address genuinely helpful posts. He also posted on a fourm that contains a whole sub-thread dedicated sole to, yup, shaming. Based on that scant information, why not take ChpBstd at his word about his 4-step plan? The audience simply isn't primed for sarcasm, and ChpBstd failed to break the surface assumptions and cue people into his humor.

I asked a question before, but I got ignored. Here's what I wonder: So ChpBstrd, if your wife found this, would she be surprised or upset? If no, carry on, and maybe get her to chime in. If yes, then you probably shouldn't be doing it, eh. Be as funny as you want, but as far as I can tell, there's an edge to your humor that's being driven into someone else. Why should I laugh?

Seriously?  We are in the forum of a blog written by the King of Hyperbole.  Facepunches, bedpans, catheters.  Shall I go on?  This is exactly the type of hair trigger moral outrage makes the internet less and less fun.
Yes, seriously. It's very clear that most people reading this post are not, in any way, interpreting ChpBstd's words as funny. You seemed to be asking why people couldn't see the hyperbole. I provide an answer; that in my opinion the miscommunication is a combination of audience and technical writing skill.

That answers why readers aren't seeing the intended hyperbole. Not being able to see hyperbole is different from seeing it, rejecting it, and then deciding to be morally outraged. The question if the readers should see ChpBstd's posts as hyperbolic, based simply on being posted to the MMM forum, is a different discussion.

tanzee

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #115 on: December 12, 2016, 12:59:09 PM »
Quote from: Sailor Sam
Yup. Probably because ChpBstd misjudged his audience. This thread is one of his first posts, so the forumites have no prior knowledge of his baseline personality, from which we can judge hyperbole and sarcasm. And he posted in Ask A Mustachian, where tyro's posting case studies are often combative, surly, and don't address genuinely helpful posts. He also posted on a fourm that contains a whole sub-thread dedicated sole to, yup, shaming. Based on that scant information, why not take ChpBstd at his word about his 4-step plan? The audience simply isn't primed for sarcasm, and ChpBstd failed to break the surface assumptions and cue people into his humor.

I asked a question before, but I got ignored. Here's what I wonder: So ChpBstrd, if your wife found this, would she be surprised or upset? If no, carry on, and maybe get her to chime in. If yes, then you probably shouldn't be doing it, eh. Be as funny as you want, but as far as I can tell, there's an edge to your humor that's being driven into someone else. Why should I laugh?

Seriously?  We are in the forum of a blog written by the King of Hyperbole.  Facepunches, bedpans, catheters.  Shall I go on?  This is exactly the type of hair trigger moral outrage makes the internet less and less fun.
Yes, seriously. It's very clear that most people reading this post are not, in any way, interpreting ChpBstd's words as funny. You seemed to be asking why people couldn't see the hyperbole. I provide an answer; that in my opinion the miscommunication is a combination of audience and technical writing skill.

That answers why readers aren't seeing the intended hyperbole. Not being able to see hyperbole is different from seeing it, rejecting it, and then deciding to be morally outraged. The question if the readers should see ChpBstd's posts as hyperbolic, based simply on being posted to the MMM forum, is a different discussion.

Fair enough.  I can see where you are coming from.  I suppose my overall point is that when a community starts to police the boundaries of what is acceptable so rigidly, it hampers the discussion.  If making a slightly off-color joke feels like walking a tight rope where putting one foot wrong means the community comes down on you, then people stop making jokes altogether.  In this case, ChpBstrd made a joke reflecting his frustration with his marriage, and people came thisclose to calling him a manipulative, abusive husband.  That type of behavior, repeated over time, leaves us with stale, mundane, humorless discussion because no one wants to take the risk of getting on the wrong side of the Outrage Police.  And I don't know about you all, but I really like to laugh.

To put things in perspective, we are just apes rattling away on keyboards.  If you don't think it's funny, please just move on.  The world won't be improved one bit if you convince some random guy named ChpBstrd not to make a joke you happen not to like.  Moral outrage feels really good, which is why internet arguments escalate so quickly.  But it's really destructive in the long run.  The way to avoid it is to assume good intentions even when you don't want to, and ignore the parts you don't like. 

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #116 on: December 12, 2016, 01:07:04 PM »
Personally I didn't even recognize it as an attempt at humor because it was too much in line with the original post. Secondly, having gone through a tough time as a kid being teased by classmates (they call that "bullying" now) I am very sensitive to humor at the expense at others. I find it intensely uncomfortable and not at all funny. Our preferred brand of humor in my household is ridiculousness, not meanness.

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #117 on: December 12, 2016, 01:10:01 PM »
I haven't read through this whole thread and probably won't because it royally pissed me off.

You should

I have read through it more once I cooled down and OP is hopefully just overzealous.  He seems like a decent enough guy.  However, I lived over 20 years in a situation like he described in his "passive-aggressive hyperbole" and when my husband acted like that in our marriage I felt put down, judged and like I didn't have an equal say in the marriage. 

I think it is great what the OP and his wife have achieved together over the last 10 months and I hope they can find a way to financial independence that will meet both their financial and emotional needs.

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #118 on: December 12, 2016, 01:20:40 PM »
Yes, seriously. It's very clear that most people reading this post are not, in any way, interpreting ChpBstd's words as funny. You seemed to be asking why people couldn't see the hyperbole. I provide an answer; that in my opinion the miscommunication is a combination of audience and technical writing skill.

That answers why readers aren't seeing the intended hyperbole. Not being able to see hyperbole is different from seeing it, rejecting it, and then deciding to be morally outraged. The question if the readers should see ChpBstd's posts as hyperbolic, based simply on being posted to the MMM forum, is a different discussion.

Fair enough.  I can see where you are coming from.  I suppose my overall point is that when a community starts to police the boundaries of what is acceptable so rigidly, it hampers the discussion.  If making a slightly off-color joke feels like walking a tight rope where putting one foot wrong means the community comes down on you, then people stop making jokes altogether.  In this case, ChpBstrd made a joke reflecting his frustration with his marriage, and people came thisclose to calling him a manipulative, abusive husband.  That type of behavior, repeated over time, leaves us with stale, mundane, humorless discussion because no one wants to take the risk of getting on the wrong side of the Outrage Police.  And I don't know about you all, but I really like to laugh.

To put things in perspective, we are just apes rattling away on keyboards.  If you don't think it's funny, please just move on.  The world won't be improved one bit if you convince some random guy named ChpBstrd not to make a joke you happen not to like.  Moral outrage feels really good, which is why internet arguments escalate so quickly.  But it's really destructive in the long run.  The way to avoid it is to assume good intentions even when you don't want to, and ignore the parts you don't like.

I fully agree with all your points about joking, and why internet arguments escalate so quickly. I also like to laugh, and like to walk away when the argument is futile.

My only real issue is that I had absolutely no idea this ChpBstd dude was trying to be funny. We could debate why - does he lack technical skill, or am I just a judgmental jerk...? But the fact that I, and many others, couldn't pick up on it means you're having a different discussion than the rest of us. If someone says "I like eating kittens for breakfast", and I take them literally, the discussion won't be about the appropriateness of joking, it will be about the ethicacy of eating kittens. If you hear the same thing, and think of it as joke, then you'll can have a discussion about the actual joke. We're literally having 2 different conversations.

I guess, my argument is that we're both right. Inappropriate jokes shouldn't be stepped on too hard, least we become a society that lacks courage and colour. BUT, in order for something to be risque, the author has to have enough recognition, or skill, or whatever to make the audience aware he's joking. Otherwise he's just a kitten consuming asshole. Right?

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #119 on: December 12, 2016, 01:46:27 PM »
Time to abandon post!

As earlier commenters pointed out, the mixing of serious financial/marital topic with hyperbole/black humor/sarcasm has thrown most folks for a loop. For that, I apologize.

Had I, for example, phrased "hunger strike" as "don't always order at restaurants," the reception would have been different. That's my fault, not yours, because the burden is on the communicator. I harvested a lot fewer ideas as a result.

Nonetheless, there were several constructive suggestions and personal stories that I appreciate:

1) take the slow - i.e. multi-year - road to persuasion, rather than insisting upon a sudden, radical change.
2) emphasize recipies/cooking to kill the restaurant bills.
3) the lack of shared life goals is the underlying conflict.

Thanks for your time, now...
Abandon post!
Abandon post!
Abandon post!

researcher1

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #120 on: December 12, 2016, 01:53:40 PM »
It was just such obvious hyperbole...

People really take that seriously?...

In this case, ChpBstrd made a joke reflecting his frustration with his marriage, and people came thisclose to calling him a manipulative, abusive husband...

Looks like you were wrong.

The content of Cheap Bastard's post was absolutely not a joke, as he just indicated above.

You can find his first response after he posted the "joke" at Reply #74.  In it, he says...
"OK, resolved.
I'll "chill" and keep working behind the scenes..."


If he intended it as a joke, he would have said something like..."That was a complete joke.  I wasn't being serious.  I just make up some dumb sh*t to get a laugh."
But instead, he said the issue was resolved and that he would chill out.  This clearly indicates that the content of the 4 ideas he proposed was real and serious.

While the names/labels given to his 4 ideas were hyperbole (hunger strike, bribery, ect), the content & meaning behind those ideas was clearly serious.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 02:09:35 PM by researcher1 »

tanzee

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #121 on: December 12, 2016, 02:30:35 PM »
It was just such obvious hyperbole...

People really take that seriously?...

In this case, ChpBstrd made a joke reflecting his frustration with his marriage, and people came thisclose to calling him a manipulative, abusive husband...

Looks like you were wrong.

The content of Cheap Bastard's post was absolutely not a joke, as he just indicated above.

You can find his first response after he posted the "joke" at Reply #74.  In it, he says...
"OK, resolved.
I'll "chill" and keep working behind the scenes..."


If he intended it as a joke, he would have said something like..."That was a complete joke.  I wasn't being serious.  I just make up some dumb sh*t to get a laugh."
But instead, he said the issue was resolved and that he would chill out.  This clearly indicates that the content of the 4 ideas he proposed was real and serious.

While the names/labels given to his 4 ideas were hyperbole (hunger strike, bribery, ect), the content & meaning behind those ideas was clearly serious.

He has repeatedly said it was a joke.  Read up. 

tanzee

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2016, 02:33:59 PM »
Yes, seriously. It's very clear that most people reading this post are not, in any way, interpreting ChpBstd's words as funny. You seemed to be asking why people couldn't see the hyperbole. I provide an answer; that in my opinion the miscommunication is a combination of audience and technical writing skill.

That answers why readers aren't seeing the intended hyperbole. Not being able to see hyperbole is different from seeing it, rejecting it, and then deciding to be morally outraged. The question if the readers should see ChpBstd's posts as hyperbolic, based simply on being posted to the MMM forum, is a different discussion.

Fair enough.  I can see where you are coming from.  I suppose my overall point is that when a community starts to police the boundaries of what is acceptable so rigidly, it hampers the discussion.  If making a slightly off-color joke feels like walking a tight rope where putting one foot wrong means the community comes down on you, then people stop making jokes altogether.  In this case, ChpBstrd made a joke reflecting his frustration with his marriage, and people came thisclose to calling him a manipulative, abusive husband.  That type of behavior, repeated over time, leaves us with stale, mundane, humorless discussion because no one wants to take the risk of getting on the wrong side of the Outrage Police.  And I don't know about you all, but I really like to laugh.

To put things in perspective, we are just apes rattling away on keyboards.  If you don't think it's funny, please just move on.  The world won't be improved one bit if you convince some random guy named ChpBstrd not to make a joke you happen not to like.  Moral outrage feels really good, which is why internet arguments escalate so quickly.  But it's really destructive in the long run.  The way to avoid it is to assume good intentions even when you don't want to, and ignore the parts you don't like.

I fully agree with all your points about joking, and why internet arguments escalate so quickly. I also like to laugh, and like to walk away when the argument is futile.

My only real issue is that I had absolutely no idea this ChpBstd dude was trying to be funny. We could debate why - does he lack technical skill, or am I just a judgmental jerk...? But the fact that I, and many others, couldn't pick up on it means you're having a different discussion than the rest of us. If someone says "I like eating kittens for breakfast", and I take them literally, the discussion won't be about the appropriateness of joking, it will be about the ethicacy of eating kittens. If you hear the same thing, and think of it as joke, then you'll can have a discussion about the actual joke. We're literally having 2 different conversations.

I guess, my argument is that we're both right. Inappropriate jokes shouldn't be stepped on too hard, least we become a society that lacks courage and colour. BUT, in order for something to be risque, the author has to have enough recognition, or skill, or whatever to make the audience aware he's joking. Otherwise he's just a kitten consuming asshole. Right?

Haha, glad to hear we are on the same page here.  I agree, clarity is important.  It's unfortunate when pieces get lost, as you say.  In the meantime, we really need to talk about your sociopathic jokes about kittens.  The horror!

researcher1

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #123 on: December 12, 2016, 02:48:13 PM »
He has repeatedly said it was a joke.  Read up.

The LABELS/NAMES he gave to his 4 ideas were hyperbole. 

The IDEAS he presented were not.

Read what he just posted a few minutes ago...
Had I, for example, phrased "hunger strike" as "don't always order at restaurants," the reception would have been different...

So while the name "Hunger Strike" was possibly meant to be funny, the idea he proposed was serious...
"Occasionally don't order anything. Explain that I'd rather the money to go savings. Lead by example and learn self control simultaneously."


MVal

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #124 on: December 12, 2016, 03:04:42 PM »
Admittedly, you sound overzealous.  Its a my way or the highway mentality.  I'd take offense at that too.

Marriage is compromise.  That means you probably won't get your way if its important you stay married.

Its concerning when you say you've quit all your hobbies.  Why?  Just to reach an earlier FI date?  Sheesh.  That sounds depressing.  Life is just as much the journey as the goal.  Many would say its MORE about the former.

Anyway, if you value your marriage, you'll reign your obsession in.  And yes, its an obsession.

Life is not suddenly over because of several add'l years of 'wage slavery'.

I agree. There is a certain amount of truth to "happy wife--happy life." As they say, so often in marriage, you can be happy or you can be right.

You both should compromise, but if either of you is hard-lined, all-or-nothing about your goals and put that above your marriage, you're headed for a cliff. You may have to be patient and settle for her tiny efforts to save money with you (even though you and perhaps most of us feel she is "wrong") and she will have to be patient with you and what she perceives as a bunch of frugality that is "not worth it." You might be surprised one day if you approach this with love and patience that months or years down the road she starts to see things more your way, but don't hold out.

We need a Mustachian counselor for times like this! I've avoided counseling before because I knew they would suggest I give up my Mustache ways to relieve stress...it's hard to find people who share our views on money...

BFGirl

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #125 on: December 12, 2016, 03:35:55 PM »
 I just have one more thought on this topic that I hope comes across as relevant.  Humans are both rational and emotional creatures and both parts have value.

From a completely logical standpoint, I should sell my house for it's appreciated value and move into something smaller with less taxes.  As a rational person I understand this and I understand that I could probably invest the money and be damn close to FI.  However, "it is not worth it" to me because I emotionally love my home and my neighborhood.  I derive a lot of pleasure from my home.  Therefore, I am willing to work a little bit longer to keep living there.  I am also willing to work a little bit longer so that I can go have the occasional beer at the pub because I enjoy the atmosphere, even though logically it would cost less to drink it at home.  I would be miserable if I was financially independent (as in could provide food, clothing and shelter for myself, but little else) but I couldn't/wouldn't spend on some of the things I enjoy.

I think that spouses need to try to understand both the logical and emotional reasons behind the other spouse's actions instead of just becoming entrenched in a position and a power struggle.  I think that both the OP and his wife need to have some frank discussions about their feelings about money and their life goals without one trying to prove to the other that they are right.

letired

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Re: Wife not on board with FI. WTF...
« Reply #126 on: December 12, 2016, 04:03:29 PM »
I'm very glad to hear that the OP was not as serious as he appeared.  Definitely stick to the day job and give further attempts at comedy writing the old skippero!

I do not generally find the crusty old white dudes who were mentioned very funny, so it's no wonder I missed the jokes. I find blasphemy, surrealism, and cheerful nihilism much more funny. For instance, the Might Boosh is a riot!