Author Topic: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?  (Read 15682 times)

DarkandStormy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1162
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Midwest, USA
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2017, 07:39:43 AM »
There are way many options and better options than a 2010 Kia Soul for $12.5K.
She woke up that day thinking about a new car and at the end of the day she got a new car.
No mater what I explained to her she was solid on thinking that it was the best decision ever.

HOLY....I had a 2010 Soul and it was valued at $12.5K...in 2013!  That's a terrible deal, imo.  If it's a base model, the KBB value is roughly $6,400.  Even the highest model (the Exclaim) is valued at $9K.  So unless this model is in the best condition ever and has under 10K miles on it - what an overpay!

Hell, a '17 Soul MSRP starts at $16K!  And you could finance that with <2% rate.

rothwem

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 591
  • Location: WNC
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2017, 08:50:10 AM »
Haha, OP, are you dating my fiance?!?  She did the exact. same. fucking. thing, and I did the exact same fucking thing that you did.  I made a spreadsheet, she told me it was shit.  I told her they were numbers and they didn't lie and she couldn't afford a new car. That DID NOT go over well. It got to the point where any discussion of cars led to a big fight. 

Finally, the trans died on her old car, and she was going out "just to look" and I get a text later in the day while I'm at work that she's buying a CPO 2016 Nissan Rogue for $300/month.  She didn't know what the total cost was.  I asked her to hold on and we can look at it later in the day, but she told me she already signed all the papers. 

At least its a decent newer car that gets good mileage.  I don't think its worth paying $300/month but we're upside down on it right now and we'll be paying $300 for a while until it isn't. 

aalferez

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2017, 08:52:21 AM »
As someone who just bought a used car (2014 CRV) about two weeks ago, I too would have been pretty upset if I had to justify my purchase to my wife over hours of conversation.

I had a 2008 Ford Focus that I drove for 10-11 years. It's a long story how I ended up with that car, but long story short I didn't pick it and then had to make payments on it anyway. It finally needed about $1,200 in repairs/maintenance and $2,400 to fix the A/C and that was enough for me to be done with it. Like your GF, I didn't go crazy, but instead bought a car I always liked that was reasonably priced.

I certainly could have made a better mathematical purchase. I could have bought a 2014 Fit or an older CRV with more miles that was less expensive. But I wanted a newer car with more room and less miles. 

It seems to me that your GF went through a similar rationalization process, and it all seems reasonable to me.

I understand now that she just wanted that car and she made it happen. But at the beginning when I asked her, she gave me financial arguments about why that decision made sense to her.
And I tried to prove her that the numbers are not the way she thought.

I asked her if she did research about not only car prices and mileage but also about mechanical issues, loss of value of the car..
She said: 'Yes, I spent a couple of hours and all I found was this'.
There is no way she can map the whole market on Kia Souls with a 2 hour research on 1 single day.

***

ALL THAT SAID, this forum has a tendency to idolize the non-posting spouse. Everyone always gangs up on the OP and talks about how bad they suck at communicating. "I would dump you" posts have appeared probably 4-5 times in this thread. This ganging up on OP happens all the time in these types of threads.

I personally think it's absolute bullshit that she didn't bring you with her to the dealership and didn't involve you in the decision making process. I made it a huge point to look at cars with my wife, tell her my reasons for what I wanted, and I even brought her to the dealership with me. She actually convinced me to get a CRV instead of a Civic because I listened what she had to say.

The way your GF went about this just wasn't right.

***
I was talking about this with some members of this forum that sent me PM in support.
Seems like nowadays you cannot say a thing in internet without someone interpreting the whole thing wrong.
My GF is awesome and great, and I love her very much, but they have this thing in her family when they go to pay for something and if they think that the price is right, they will pay for it. Like changing the whole set of tires for $1200.
My GF kind of has that way of thinking but when her mother does it, she clearly sees that is wrong.

I started a few months ago talking to my GF about budgeting and she is in, she does her own numbers at the end of the month and she is doing great. She had to adjust her budgets in order to make some room for the car payments but seems like she is handling it.

My main concern was: She makes 30K a year and her budget was already tight. I understand she wanted a new car, but maybe that car was not the best, and she should have gone with a smaller car. And to me if your budget is already tight you should look way more carefully at your finances.
I'm just trying to put some sense into her, and probably my approach was totally wrong.

As another poster in this thread indicated, seems like both of you were wrong. Don't make a bigger deal out of this than it is. She can always pay the car off sooner. Move along and don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

She plans to pay it sooner but since her budget does not allow it...seems like I'm the one worrying and she is not.
Anyways. This happened over the weekend and we already moved along.


aalferez

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2017, 08:54:10 AM »
There are way many options and better options than a 2010 Kia Soul for $12.5K.
She woke up that day thinking about a new car and at the end of the day she got a new car.
No mater what I explained to her she was solid on thinking that it was the best decision ever.

HOLY....I had a 2010 Soul and it was valued at $12.5K...in 2013!  That's a terrible deal, imo.  If it's a base model, the KBB value is roughly $6,400.  Even the highest model (the Exclaim) is valued at $9K.  So unless this model is in the best condition ever and has under 10K miles on it - what an overpay!

Hell, a '17 Soul MSRP starts at $16K!  And you could finance that with <2% rate.

At least someone talks numbers here. I just heard about how such an awful person I am.

It is a 2010 Kia Soul. 70K miles. It's the sport though.
But she paid the 3500 down payment with her Honda CRV trade in, and $150 a month for 5 years.

aalferez

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2017, 08:58:20 AM »
Haha, OP, are you dating my fiance?!?  She did the exact. same. fucking. thing, and I did the exact same fucking thing that you did.  I made a spreadsheet, she told me it was shit.  I told her they were numbers and they didn't lie and she couldn't afford a new car. That DID NOT go over well. It got to the point where any discussion of cars led to a big fight. 

Finally, the trans died on her old car, and she was going out "just to look" and I get a text later in the day while I'm at work that she's buying a CPO 2016 Nissan Rogue for $300/month.  She didn't know what the total cost was.  I asked her to hold on and we can look at it later in the day, but she told me she already signed all the papers. 

At least its a decent newer car that gets good mileage.  I don't think its worth paying $300/month but we're upside down on it right now and we'll be paying $300 for a while until it isn't.

Hahahaha. I thought I was crazy for my response.
The most painful thing on all the numbers is that my GF didnt realize how much money extra she was paying, not only in the price of the car, but also with the interest (7%!!!!)

I understand that it is their own money what they spend, but shouldn't they be thinking as a team and consider that we might now a bit about this since we spend many hours in this forum, talking about finances and frugality and how to make every dollar work for you instead of wasting it?

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4942
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2017, 09:38:32 AM »
ALL THAT SAID, this forum has a tendency to idolize the non-posting spouse. Everyone always gangs up on the OP and talks about how bad they suck at communicating. "I would dump you" posts have appeared probably 4-5 times in this thread. This ganging up on OP happens all the time in these types of threads.

For what it's worth I think it's very RARE for people on this forum to "idolize the non-posting spouse" and in fact, I think that makes advice here very difficult for me to think of meaningfully.

If people want a bunch of people to affirm their beliefs and tell them they are a special snowflake regardless of their actions, I guess... it's not the point of this forum.

I mean seriously, this post is titled "Why the hell she does not listen to me!?" -- you wonder why people are coming down on him? Just read the OP. It might as well been "my girlfriend is a @#%#@ing moron tell me she is a moron" as a tl;dr for what the OP has presented here.

If people want more unbiased input they can't make hyperbolic and ridiculous threads with ridiculous statements.

DarkandStormy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1162
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Midwest, USA
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2017, 09:40:12 AM »
There are way many options and better options than a 2010 Kia Soul for $12.5K.
She woke up that day thinking about a new car and at the end of the day she got a new car.
No mater what I explained to her she was solid on thinking that it was the best decision ever.

HOLY....I had a 2010 Soul and it was valued at $12.5K...in 2013!  That's a terrible deal, imo.  If it's a base model, the KBB value is roughly $6,400.  Even the highest model (the Exclaim) is valued at $9K.  So unless this model is in the best condition ever and has under 10K miles on it - what an overpay!

Hell, a '17 Soul MSRP starts at $16K!  And you could finance that with <2% rate.

At least someone talks numbers here. I just heard about how such an awful person I am.

It is a 2010 Kia Soul. 70K miles. It's the sport though.
But she paid the 3500 down payment with her Honda CRV trade in, and $150 a month for 5 years.

Ran a KBB search again on the Sport with ~70K miles (they say the average is near 87K miles, so at least it's under average on miles).  Buying from a dealership, the suggested retail price is $9,402 with a fair purchase price of $9,053.  The range is $8K-$10K.

So even if she was set on this particular year and model, she still overpaid and is throwing away an extra $3K+ on the purchase - not to mention financing at 7%.  When she gets done paying it off it'll be 2022 (unless she pays it off early) - how much will she get for a 2010 Soul in 2022?

Oh well, what can you do?  Sounds like you presented the numbers, she just chose to ignore basic math.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 09:42:40 AM by DarkandStormy »

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4942
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2017, 09:52:33 AM »
Oh well, what can you do?  Sounds like you presented the numbers, she just chose to ignore basic math.

  • Apologize to GF for making her feel unloved
  • Ask if she'd be willing to talk how she felt about the situation (NOT how you felt)
  • Listen to what she says
  • Affirm you care about her
  • Ask if she'd be willing to hear your side


Scandium

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2223
  • Location: EastCoast
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2017, 10:01:03 AM »
She's selling an almost decade old SUV with 170k miles for $3500, and buying a newer (but well-used) small, fuel efficient, reliable car? Maybe the financing and her research isn't the smartest, but I don't see anything horribly wrong with the car decision itself.

aalferez

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2017, 10:13:39 AM »
Oh well, what can you do?  Sounds like you presented the numbers, she just chose to ignore basic math.

  • Apologize to GF for making her feel unloved
  • Ask if she'd be willing to talk how she felt about the situation (NOT how you felt)
  • Listen to what she says
  • Affirm you care about her
  • Ask if she'd be willing to hear your side

Issue was resolved one way or another.
But, am I not entitled to feel unloved and disrespected for not even listening to my advice?
All of you keep falling on the same side of the balance

aalferez

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2017, 10:16:19 AM »
She's selling an almost decade old SUV with 170k miles for $3500, and buying a newer (but well-used) small, fuel efficient, reliable car? Maybe the financing and her research isn't the smartest, but I don't see anything horribly wrong with the car decision itself.

I never said that was a bad decision for those reasons. But she was buying the 2010 car because she was claiming her car was old (2008)


Scandium

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2223
  • Location: EastCoast
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2017, 10:40:18 AM »
She's selling an almost decade old SUV with 170k miles for $3500, and buying a newer (but well-used) small, fuel efficient, reliable car? Maybe the financing and her research isn't the smartest, but I don't see anything horribly wrong with the car decision itself.

I never said that was a bad decision for those reasons. But she was buying the 2010 car because she was claiming her car was old (2008)

Year don't matter. 170k miles vs 70k is not insignificant. Past ~150k repairs can start to become and issue. In my wife's VW that started ~100k..

Laura33

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2385
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2017, 10:45:10 AM »
Oh well, what can you do?  Sounds like you presented the numbers, she just chose to ignore basic math.

  • Apologize to GF for making her feel unloved
  • Ask if she'd be willing to talk how she felt about the situation (NOT how you felt)
  • Listen to what she says
  • Affirm you care about her
  • Ask if she'd be willing to hear your side

Issue was resolved one way or another.
But, am I not entitled to feel unloved and disrespected for not even listening to my advice?
All of you keep falling on the same side of the balance

Yes, you are entitled to feel disrespected for how she excluded you from this decision.  But you get what you give: your fundamental disrespect for her just bleeds through these posts.  Even today, the "trying to put some sense into her" comment -- that starts from the baseline assumption that she has no sense, which is extremely disrespectful.  If we can all see that so clearly, what do you want to bet she can, too?  And how much do you think that makes her want to open up and invite you into these decisions?

From the way you describe the situation, it sounds like she started off trying to speak your language -- you asked her about her thinking, and she started off with the numbers, because you are math guy, not emotions guy, and so she knew you would be most interested in that.  And so you engaged on that basis, and didn't make a similar effort to talk in her language -- instead of acknowledging the reasonableness of wanting a different car and trying to draw out her thinking, you decided it was your role to persuade her that she was wrong.  That is not respectful.  Respect = listening, asking questions about what *she* thinks, really hearing the things that matter to her, and then asking whether she would like your input and how.  Basically, treating her as a competent human being who is capable of making a reasonable decision on her own.

I do think you can do this -- for example, you clearly noticed a similarly emotional response with her and her mother, so you are reasonably attuned to the emotional aspects of her behavior.  That's your opening.  Instead of "this is a bad choice because math," how do you think the conversation might have gone if you had opened up with something like this:  "wow, this really seems important to you.  What is it about your car you don't like?  [Mm-hmm, mm-hmm]  What do you like about the Soul?  [Mm-hmm, mm-hmm]  What did the guys tell you about this particular one? [Mm-hmm, oh, really? (signal slight skepticism)]  Now, I'm just wondering here, so let me know if I'm crossing a line, but I'm a little concerned about the rush to make such a quick decision.  Of course, it's totally your call, but I've noticed that it really bothers you that your mother makes impulsive decisions that she regrets later, and I wouldn't want you to end up in the same place just because that's what your mom taught you is normal.  What do you want to do?  I know you're tight on time -- would you like me to help with some research on what a fair price might be for that Soul?"  Etc. 

The larger point is that you don't persuade people by telling them the right answer [yes, I know, we are all blatantly violating that rule here].  What you do is lay the arguments piece by piece, but leave it to them to reach the desired conclusion.  That's because if you can convince someone that your answer was their idea, they will completely commit to it and defend it to the death -- whereas if you try to force it on them, they will dig in their heels.  [This is a secret lawyer trick:  never ask the ultimate question ("so doesn't that mean") -- instead, you ask all of the smaller questions that make it clear that there is only one possible solution, but you then let the jury make that final connection.]

Also, to address RSM's point, let me reiterate that I think this was a pretty colossally stupid decision on your GF's part.  I am jumping on you solely because you are the one who wrote in asking for advice.  If your GF had written in saying my BF totally disrespected me and gave me no end of shit over buying a stupid used Soul on XXX terms, I'd be saying, "look, yes, your BF was a total doink in how he addressed you -- but, damn, that was really a dumb financial move, so maybe you should work on your impulsivity and learn to think things through a little more, because even if you don't care about the money, if you're going to be part of a team, you need to care about his priorities too."

iceberg8

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2017, 11:23:11 AM »
I have one friend (almost, well, two in total, but this one did this > ). vvv
He purchased a Porsche.
Four years ago.
He could sell today, with 6k...
profit.
yes,
+20% in 4years
THIS is how you change the cars, and not "same for same, and pay 5k extra"
But personally, I think he is just being LUCKY.

Cars are simply just Consumables - it's not worth to waste money on Consumables. especially not in youth. I know what i am talking about. If I just had the skills set I have today, 10 years ago, I could be FIRE in age of 21 easily. I almost was, but then I got lazy and a bit Consumable. If you spend $500 on swiss chocolates, well, it's okay, as you still have some $$$ left in bank account and you wont notice 0.5k.. it ok to spend $50 on something you will use once? Well, 50 here, 50 there. add it up plenty of times and you are on 1M :D

One thing is if someone likes the car... I like lambo - I could afford it but it suicide.. Little car changes are the same - as you are doing the same mistake over and over again. One lambo cost from 60-70k (did not check for many years). Buy, use, sell, and you lose 20k for this fun (or make as my Porsche friend few grands), but buy use sell daily car, that can be 5k loss each 5 years (per change/upgrade), over and over again. Only due to laziness of market search, and "I like this and that". First of all, car is a machine, not art.. If iti s a 1k loss per year, it will be 40k loss in 40 years. Im telling this to save money to anyone who reads it and is in doubt :D But i guess all of MMM got it already :D

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4942
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2017, 11:28:28 AM »
Oh well, what can you do?  Sounds like you presented the numbers, she just chose to ignore basic math.

  • Apologize to GF for making her feel unloved
  • Ask if she'd be willing to talk how she felt about the situation (NOT how you felt)
  • Listen to what she says
  • Affirm you care about her
  • Ask if she'd be willing to hear your side

Issue was resolved one way or another.
But, am I not entitled to feel unloved and disrespected for not even listening to my advice?
All of you keep falling on the same side of the balance

I guess I'll ask this point blank.

Are you more interested in understanding how to better deal with situations like this OR are you more interested in venting about your GF?

Ann

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 270
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2017, 12:01:02 PM »
The title of this topic is "Why the hell she does not listen to me!?"
It is not "Do you think she made an optimal decision?"

Therefore, to try to address the question (listening) most posters are addressing your communication style.  Also, your girl friend is not the one posting, so there is no point for the posters to try to give HER advice.  She is not here!

Posters are pointing out potential weak spots in how you communicate.  For example, you later said your gf is awesome, and implies it was only her decision that was not.  But that is not what you communicated.  You typed "Should I lie to her and tell her how awesome she is" ... NOT "... Lie to her and tell her how awesome her decision is". 
Again, you say you were "just trying to put some sense into her" which does indeed imply she currently has no sense.

I have gotten the impression that you tried to still pursue the topic AFTER all the papers were signed for hours and hours.

I sense you are frustrated because people are assuming you have a different attitude towards your girlfriend (contemptuous, controlling) than you feel/know that you actually do.  Try to read it this way: that is another symptom of communication style.  We are picking up your tone, key phrases and reading into them. 

I second the question:
Are you here to take criticism on your communication style? Or to vent?

mustachepungoeshere

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2384
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2017, 10:59:43 PM »
I can't get past financing a 7 year old KIA for FIVE MORE years.  It likely won't last that long.

You're suggesting a modern car will not last 12 years?
 
Kias now come with a seven-year unlimited kilometre warranty in Australia.
 
That means you will be able to buy an affordable five-year-old car and still have two years of warranty.

rothwem

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 591
  • Location: WNC
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2017, 07:07:09 AM »
Perhaps I'm projecting my own experiences onto the OP's situation, but...


Again, you say you were "just trying to put some sense into her" which does indeed imply she currently has no sense.


Both you a Laura have made this point, and I think its a little silly.  I know more about cars than my fiance, so yes, in a way, I have more "sense" in this particular area than she does.  She's a registered dietitian, so if I declared one day that I was going to eat ice cream for dinner every night, a reasonable person would expect her to "talk some sense into me" since she is more knowledgeable on the topic.

Its not because shes a woman, its not because I don't love her, but if you were running a widget factory, would you expect the accountant to do a good job welding up widgets?  Would you expect the welder to do a good job balancing the books? 

Carrie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 603
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2017, 08:55:25 AM »
I can't get past financing a 7 year old KIA for FIVE MORE years.  It likely won't last that long.

You're suggesting a modern car will not last 12 years?
 
Kias now come with a seven-year unlimited kilometre warranty in Australia.
 
That means you will be able to buy an affordable five-year-old car and still have two years of warranty.

Well yes, it may last, but probably not to her satisfaction. After all, it will need some maintenance -which was a main reason for dumping the slightly older car.

I get the frustration of the op because I only pay cash. I wouldn't dream of financing such an old car. (Keep in mind, my car is a 2008 honda, bought used after tons of research & shopping for the best deal, and I envision driving it for at least 10 more years.) I guess kudos to her for only financing 10k ish rather than 35k.

Laura33

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2385
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #69 on: July 12, 2017, 01:06:17 PM »
Perhaps I'm projecting my own experiences onto the OP's situation, but...


Again, you say you were "just trying to put some sense into her" which does indeed imply she currently has no sense.


Both you a Laura have made this point, and I think its a little silly.  I know more about cars than my fiance, so yes, in a way, I have more "sense" in this particular area than she does.  She's a registered dietitian, so if I declared one day that I was going to eat ice cream for dinner every night, a reasonable person would expect her to "talk some sense into me" since she is more knowledgeable on the topic.

Its not because shes a woman, its not because I don't love her, but if you were running a widget factory, would you expect the accountant to do a good job welding up widgets?  Would you expect the welder to do a good job balancing the books?

Sure, different people hear/read things differently.

But given that OP's complaint was that his GF wasn't listening to him, I'm guessing his GF might be in the same camp that Ann and I are.  In which case OP would be smart to recognize that what you think you are saying is not always what someone else is hearing.

Of course, I'd also be more persuaded if the OP had ever said anything that suggested he did, in fact, have any respect for his GF's knowledge of cars or financial management skills.  You can't vent -- repeatedly -- about how stupid someone's decision was and then turn around and claim, but, no, really, I highly respect her ability to make those kinds of decisions.

Or, to put it another way:  no, I wouldn't expect the accountant to do a good job welding widgets.  But the GF here thinks she's making the widgets and doing it just fine, thanks very much.  If they decided to divide and conquer, so he made the widgets and she ran the books because that was what they were each best at, that's awesome.  But they didn't -- she's decided that she's going to make her own widgets.  And since he's not her boss, it's not his place to instruct her in how to do it better, or to treat her like an idiot because she doesn't do it to his standards.