Author Topic: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?  (Read 15650 times)

aalferez

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Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« on: July 07, 2017, 07:13:19 PM »
Well my GF woke up today with the left foot and decided that she likes the Kia Soul.
She currently has a Honda CRV 2008 with 170K miles.
She drives a lot for work (not that much, but 1000 miles a month) and she says that she is tired of the car that is a crap that is annoyingly big and she hates it.

So she says she did some research and went to a carmax to see the car.
Surprise surprise, she calls me and tells me she want it, that is a very good deal...
They offer her $3500 for her car and then she pays $150 a month for 60 months.
That is a 7% interest!!!!
I ask her what is the price of the car...she doesn't know. What kind of research is she doing??

And the new car is not even new, it is a 2010 with 70K miles...

So she starts saying that her car might die in 3 years.(Are you serious?!??!) and that in that time she would be loosing $3500 plus oil changes and normal maintenance.
Then I throw her the math. $150 a month in 3 years is $5400!!! She would pay almost 2K for having a new car when she already has one!

This is so unreal, then she tells me that I hurt her because I don't support her. I really don't know what does she expect? Should I lie to her and tell her how awesome she is.

Her car in KBB would sell for $4400 - $5400. I told her I would buy her car for $3500 so I can resell it and she says that it is not the same....
I really don't know how someone can be so in denial!



sokoloff

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 08:49:02 PM »
We *bought* my wife's CR-V when it was 8 years old and have ~180K miles on it. In the last 5 years and ~25K miles, it's needed two minor repairs, both easy enough to DIY and readily available/inexpensive OEM parts. Wife loves it (most important), but as the wrench-turner, I also love it.

Ultimately, it's your gf's call on how she spends her money. You can advise her, but if she just wants you to give her her opinion in a deeper voice, you have to just butt out and let her do what she wants.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2017, 09:04:25 PM »
If you're talking to her with anything like the attitude that you've posted here, I'm not surprised she didn't listen.

One thing to realise in relationships is that you can never count on changing the other person's mind. All you can do is express an opinion, offer information, and leave it up to them.

Give her some time for all that to marinate and she might see the light. Or not. But she is a big girl who can make her own decisions, and only you can decide how much you're willing to put up with in terms of dating someone with vastly different financial values.

birdiegirl

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2017, 10:31:33 PM »
If you're talking to her with anything like the attitude that you've posted here, I'm not surprised she didn't listen.

One thing to realise in relationships is that you can never count on changing the other person's mind. All you can do is express an opinion, offer information, and leave it up to them.

Give her some time for all that to marinate and she might see the light. Or not. But she is a big girl who can make her own decisions, and only you can decide how much you're willing to put up with in terms of dating someone with vastly different financial values.

This ^^ 

She is an adult and should be making her own decisions about her money.  Sounds like she is probably is not as detail oriented about financial decisions as you may be...but that doesn't make her wrong.  Your best option is to be supportive of her decision but offer to help her find a better deal. 

If she's anything like my husband she just can't process anything beyond the monthly payment.  When we were dating my husband also decided he wanted a Kia Soul (his car was totaled, so he did need to buy something quick).  The dealer tried to talk him into a car that was high miles and high price tag and then tried to talk him into a lease when he drives 30K-40K miles a year!   I knew he was getting ripped off, so I told him to wait and think about it for a day or two and I'd do some research to see if we could find a better deal. So I did the research and found a one with a lower price, less miles, and in the color he really wanted.  Probably not the best deal in the world but he was happy and didn't get totally screwed over financially.   

Offer to help her find something better or just let it go and be happy that she is happy with her decision.


coconutindex

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 01:17:20 AM »
Disregarding the financial stuff, when a partner tells you that she's hurt by your lack of support while you yourself believe that all you're doing is giving sound, rational advice - usually the problem is in the way you communicate. This has happened to me MANY times in my married life (I'm the one overexplaining). Sorry, but humans are like this. Even the very best arguments will falter if she feels like you're condescending. What's worked for us when we've found ourselves in one of these situations is first to have a «meta-discussion» about how we/I communicate. After that it's much easier to make your point, and actually be heard!

HipGnosis

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2017, 06:29:36 AM »
You lost me at "left foot"...

Ann

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2017, 06:38:16 AM »
Quote
Should I lie to her and tell her how awesome she is.

You may not think her decision is the best, but if you don't think she is awesome them perhaps you should move on. 

Even if you find the most Muatachian partner ever, please remember that listening does not necessarily mean agreeing and obeying.  She gets to make her own decisions.  Frankly, while her decision is not something MMM would do, it doesn't seem overall disastrous.

YoungInvestor

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2017, 07:21:10 AM »
Suggest looking for a cheaper way to finance the car. Otherwise it's her call and you've stated your opinion. You need to respect her and her choices.

ambimammular

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2017, 01:40:49 PM »
Does she have other debt? Is her retirement savings healthy?

If those are okay, then I wouldn't worry about it, because it isn't your spouse.

If those are a problem, take your relationship really slow, so they don't become your problem.

aalferez

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2017, 02:48:39 PM »
Don't get me wrong, she is awesome but her decision and impulsiveness is not.
I explained this to her in many ways, many times.
I even told her to leave the Carmax since it was 8pm and sleep on it, so tomorrow morning if she feels so strong she can go back and get it. Instead she decided to go ahead and drove the new car back home.

At least after hours and hours of conversation last night, she agreed that the purchase was impulsive.

It was funny because she was saying that the new car she is planning to have it for 10 years and its already 7 years old when the other one was 9 years old and she thought the car was about to die.


Jon Bon

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2017, 03:03:27 PM »
I would lose my shit on a SO for that sort of move as well. Sounds like she is being impulsive and foolish, marketing is a powerful drug my friend!

However it is her money, if she is gonna make moves like this over and over again I would go shopping for a new GF myself....

I dont know how close you guys are, but something has got to change right? So many relationships break up do to money, maybe find the post about how to covert your SO to MMM.

Go luck!

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2017, 03:51:02 PM »
Don't get me wrong, she is awesome but her decision and impulsiveness is not.
I explained this to her in many ways, many times.
I even told her to leave the Carmax since it was 8pm and sleep on it, so tomorrow morning if she feels so strong she can go back and get it. Instead she decided to go ahead and drove the new car back home.

At least after hours and hours of conversation last night, she agreed that the purchase was impulsive.

It was funny because she was saying that the new car she is planning to have it for 10 years and its already 7 years old when the other one was 9 years old and she thought the car was about to die.

Just give her the information and let it lie. What she decided is the end of it. She's not a child, and even if she were, you're not her parent! If I came home from a purchase, well thought out or not, to "hours and hours of conversation", I'd be out of there!

privatevoid

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2017, 08:00:27 AM »
You lost me at "left foot"...

Yeah. I hear OP's pain but this post smells of "Ugh, I keep telling my girlfriend what to do, and she's not listening!! how can she be so dumb???" and... yeah, people aren't very responsive to that. She's not your dog.

The Kia Soul might be cool to her (I don't understand, but hey) but you're not wrong that what would be a hell of a lot better is to sell that CR-V on the private market for $5500 and buy a used hatchback, cash.

ender

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2017, 08:18:58 AM »
Disregarding the financial stuff, when a partner tells you that she's hurt by your lack of support while you yourself believe that all you're doing is giving sound, rational advice - usually the problem is in the way you communicate. This has happened to me MANY times in my married life (I'm the one overexplaining). Sorry, but humans are like this. Even the very best arguments will falter if she feels like you're condescending. What's worked for us when we've found ourselves in one of these situations is first to have a «meta-discussion» about how we/I communicate. After that it's much easier to make your point, and actually be heard!

+1

Khaetra

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2017, 10:00:24 AM »
Just give her the information and let it lie. What she decided is the end of it. She's not a child, and even if she were, you're not her parent! If I came home from a purchase, well thought out or not, to "hours and hours of conversation", I'd be out of there!

This 1000%!  Giving advice, okay.  Lecturing, which it was from you, for hours?  You'd get a huge 'fuck you, see ya' from me.  If you don't like her spending habits then get out of the relationship, but for fuck's sake it's her decision, her money, no matter how bad you think her choice was.

Jon Bon

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2017, 10:42:25 AM »
Just give her the information and let it lie. What she decided is the end of it. She's not a child, and even if she were, you're not her parent! If I came home from a purchase, well thought out or not, to "hours and hours of conversation", I'd be out of there!

This 1000%!  Giving advice, okay.  Lecturing, which it was from you, for hours?  You'd get a huge 'fuck you, see ya' from me.  If you don't like her spending habits then get out of the relationship, but for fuck's sake it's her decision, her money, no matter how bad you think her choice was.


Depends....... If the OP is a CPA  and the SO has zero financial knowledge/education they might need to go over it for an hour or so.


Khaetra

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2017, 11:30:57 AM »
Just give her the information and let it lie. What she decided is the end of it. She's not a child, and even if she were, you're not her parent! If I came home from a purchase, well thought out or not, to "hours and hours of conversation", I'd be out of there!

This 1000%!  Giving advice, okay.  Lecturing, which it was from you, for hours?  You'd get a huge 'fuck you, see ya' from me.  If you don't like her spending habits then get out of the relationship, but for fuck's sake it's her decision, her money, no matter how bad you think her choice was.


Depends....... If the OP is a CPA  and the SO has zero financial knowledge/education they might need to go over it for an hour or so.

He said "after hours and hours of conversation".  Sounds like lecturing to me.  She's an adult who may have made a rash decision, but it was hers to make and unless the OP was the one paying for it (which it doesn't sound like it) then he really has no say as to how she spends her money.

iceberg8

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2017, 12:34:30 PM »
The problem is, if she is his GF, and he is planning to live with her for rest of their lives, it is kind of a problem, when one (he/she does not matter) do not follow the sane money management (or simply MMM)..
Because one of the two drags down the capital of the family.
And I believe it does not matter, if the finances are shared or not.
Because she will, in this particular case, she will blow away the money on car, instead of, for example a holiday (her part/half).
My GF is the same, she likes some idea, crazy or not, it's always expensive. And as folks above said, communication needs to be changed, you need to explain her differently, best time for it is when her mood is good or so...
Try to explain her, or send her link for this topic: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/i-just-bought-2-days-per-year-of-free-life-indefinitely-363-to-go/
For 2K she would waste, she could have 2 days of retirement every single year for ever.
Also, it is VERY questionable, which car is in better or worst state - no one is going to sell a car in perfect shape. They would sell it to their family, maybe, I guess.
For example, my car is made in JP, has 138k miles on it, in just 5 years. I could sell for, according to some online listings, 10k maybe.. but what would I buy? new for 10k is not a good idea, unless Dacia.. so I would risk more by selling it, and replacing it, because today I know, I did behave to the car nicely and it will work well.. if not, I was wrong.

The worst part of this is, at least in my opinion, that we want our other halves or family to be FI, but they are making moves (deliberately or not, conscientiously or not) which delays, if not totally ruin the FI plan. Well, marketing and brainwashing is a strong tool/virus.

i did buy so damn useless things and so expensive, like sofa for 5K, i will regret it. Also,  I did change my 2L gas engine for larger with turbo, I did lost 10K and maintenance is more expensive. With sofa, its instantly 15K down, and perhaps even more (higher insurance and so on), so I am down 20K with just 2 mistakes. If i would invest it in stocks (even safe one, dollar cost average and so on), I would be on 30K for sure. And that is 1 MONTH of FI every year, approx. let it do it's job , invest it, and I would be on 60K within 8-10 years. damn my mistakes..

ender

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2017, 01:08:11 PM »
The problem is, if she is his GF, and he is planning to live with her for rest of their lives, it is kind of a problem, when one (he/she does not matter) do not follow the sane money management (or simply MMM)..
Because one of the two drags down the capital of the family.
And I believe it does not matter, if the finances are shared or not.
Because she will, in this particular case, she will blow away the money on car, instead of, for example a holiday (her part/half).
My GF is the same, she likes some idea, crazy or not, it's always expensive. And as folks above said, communication needs to be changed, you need to explain her differently, best time for it is when her mood is good or so...
Try to explain her, or send her link for this topic: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/i-just-bought-2-days-per-year-of-free-life-indefinitely-363-to-go/
For 2K she would waste, she could have 2 days of retirement every single year for ever.
Also, it is VERY questionable, which car is in better or worst state - no one is going to sell a car in perfect shape. They would sell it to their family, maybe, I guess.
For example, my car is made in JP, has 138k miles on it, in just 5 years. I could sell for, according to some online listings, 10k maybe.. but what would I buy? new for 10k is not a good idea, unless Dacia.. so I would risk more by selling it, and replacing it, because today I know, I did behave to the car nicely and it will work well.. if not, I was wrong.

The worst part of this is, at least in my opinion, that we want our other halves or family to be FI, but they are making moves (deliberately or not, conscientiously or not) which delays, if not totally ruin the FI plan. Well, marketing and brainwashing is a strong tool/virus.

i did buy so damn useless things and so expensive, like sofa for 5K, i will regret it. Also,  I did change my 2L gas engine for larger with turbo, I did lost 10K and maintenance is more expensive. With sofa, its instantly 15K down, and perhaps even more (higher insurance and so on), so I am down 20K with just 2 mistakes. If i would invest it in stocks (even safe one, dollar cost average and so on), I would be on 30K for sure. And that is 1 MONTH of FI every year, approx. let it do it's job , invest it, and I would be on 60K within 8-10 years. damn my mistakes..

I think people always focus on the money aspect and act as if the failure of communication is not far more important to whether or not the relationship is good or not.

I would MUCH rather be married to someone who made questionable financial decisions than be married to someone who treated me like an ignorant child and lectured me every time I did something they disagreed about. 

Before people rush to condemn the OP's girlfriend it's worth pointing out that the OP is acting in far more relationally damaging ways than the GF is.

Khaetra

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2017, 01:20:12 PM »
I agree communication is extremely important, but it has to be in a way that is non-confrontational, not OP's way of lecturing.  If this is a relationship that may well turn into marriage down the road, then they both need to learn how to speak TO each other, not AT each other.  I would be very defensive if someone I was dating started to criticize the way I spent my money and they would probably get the boot.  I would be more open if the conversation was about future goals and how, as a couple, we could work towards them.  Not everyone is going to grasp the MMM way (I don't, as I find some of it much too extreme but that doesn't mean I haven't learned things from it), but if you can't communicate with your partner about money and goals without someone getting hurt feelings or lectures, then you need to change the way you do so. 

iceberg8

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2017, 01:43:49 PM »
I also FULLY agree about the communication, but.. we do not know if this was the first issue, or fifth or so.. The point is, FIAT is not forgiving, we can not simply factory reset our portfolio to green numbers.
But the truth is, if the communication or method how the OP did talk to his GF failed, he must choose another tactic.. And even let her do the mistake, its just the money. Someone needs to feel and live thru the mistakes.. Because there is no simple and only one correct answer in the investments World..
We can talk to them nicely, but bank account won't be so nice to them. Someone takes it as rubbish behavior or communication. But someone throws his loved one's into middle of the lake, so they start to swim, even if he risks they drown... But at least the OP did start to topic, and is looking for information how to handle it :)

rdaneel0

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2017, 02:00:35 PM »
Guys really hate being nagged and controlled and basically told what they're doing is wrong. So do girls. There are lots of great ways to have an impact on a significant other, but you have to be able to communicate in an open and non-confrontational way.

Also, she's you're girlfriend, so I'm assuming you haven't combined finances. It's 100% her money; if she had wanted you to make the decision about her car she would have asked a recommendation and then taken your advice. She didn't, so whatever her reasoning is (or whether you think it's right), that's all that matters.

That said, if you want to break up with someone because you feel like you're not compatible financially, that's totally valid.

mm1970

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2017, 02:23:54 PM »
Yeah, sounds like communication style is not the best.

Lay the numbers out
- The Honda is a better car, likely to live X long
- The cost of the Honda over the next 3 years is ___
- The cost of the Kia over the next 3 years is___
- If you sell the car on the side, you will stand to gain ____ more money
- You will probably save X amount on gas by driving the smaller car.

In the end, it is her choice though - you know, just like some people here drive minivans or small SUVs or trucks instead of Honda Fits.

Ask me my fiance's reaction when he helped set up my first computer with Quicken.  "OMG YOU DON'T PAY YOUR CREDIT CARDS OFF EVERY MONTH??? YOUR BILLS ARE FOR $985 and you pay $980?  WTF are you doing?"

Then he calmed down and explained interest to me. Ahem.  This was 22 years ago.

ejacobson

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2017, 02:52:17 PM »
This is fortunate. You are getting to explore your GF's financial habits before getting married or commingling finances. Finances are obviously very important to you. You should try running scenarios like buying a house or planning a vacation with her to see how compatible you are. She may come to respect your knowledge or she may not. Money is a frequent factor in divorces. Some people also love impulsiveness in their partners while others can't stand it. Something else to explore here.

aalferez

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2017, 05:02:22 PM »
I think you are having a wrong impression here.
The way I wrote my post was aggressive but also a way to get this out instead of on her face.
I never lost my patience or manners with my GF.

I tried to explain over and over the numbers but she goes back to reasons like: I hate my car; my car is too expensive to repair, my car is loosing value and if I dont trade it in now it will loose all it's value in 3 years.

As of today she realized that her purchase did not make sense financially but she likes the car.

iris lily

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2017, 05:09:51 PM »
I think you are having a wrong impression here.
The way I wrote my post was aggressive but also a way to get this out instead of on her face.
I never lost my patience or manners with my GF.

I tried to explain over and over the numbers but she goes back to reasons like: I hate my car; my car is too expensive to repair, my car is loosing value and if I dont trade it in now it will loose all it's value in 3 years.

As of today she realized that her purchase did not make sense financially but she likes the car.

This is a lot of blah blah blah, communication is only a  part of it.

Perhaps you two dont share the same value about the importance of frugality. Do not discount the fundamental importance of shared values in a relationship.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 05:20:07 PM by iris lily »

Stupendous

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2017, 10:09:42 PM »
She's your gf. If you don't like the way she spends her money, or the type of decisions she makes, then make her your ex-gf. If marriage is an ultimate goal for you, imagine being married to someone like this and how their poor decisions will negatively impact your life.

Laura33

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2017, 07:47:41 AM »
I think you are having a wrong impression here.
The way I wrote my post was aggressive but also a way to get this out instead of on her face.
I never lost my patience or manners with my GF.

I tried to explain over and over the numbers but she goes back to reasons like: I hate my car; my car is too expensive to repair, my car is loosing value and if I dont trade it in now it will loose all it's value in 3 years.

As of today she realized that her purchase did not make sense financially but she likes the car.

I'm glad to hear the tone was just venting (understandable).

I'm going to repeat what some others have said: there is a lot of distance between you guys on basic financial values, and a clear lack of communication skills.  Use this as an opportunity to evaluate how much this relationship means to both of you and, if you want it to last, work on bridging those gaps and improving how you communicate.

IMO, btw, you're both wrong.  Only on this board is it face-punch-worthy to trade in a 9-year-old vehicle with 170K miles on it -- a "normal" person would have dumped that thing half its life ago.  Yes, it's not particularly Mustachian, but that doesn't mean it is wrong or stupid.  So to treat your GF as if she is bat-shit crazy for wanting a new vehicle is way, way off-base -- especially if, as you say, she drives a lot and relies on her vehicle to be reliable and safe and not leave her stranded somewhere far away from home.  And she bought a used one to boot!  She didn't go into a dealer and plop down $50K for a new luxe-mobile -- she went to Carmax and found a cheap used car!  So step #1 to better communication is to find a way to acknowledge -- to her -- that her underlying desire for a new vehicle is not crazy or nuts or stupid, and that her decision to focus on a used vehicle was smart and rational. 

OTOH, the way she went about it was badly thought-out and impulsive, and the result of her impulsivity was the unnecessary loss of several thousand dollars.  Unless you guys are making $500K/yr, that is a non-trivial loss -- especially because it was totally avoidable with the slightest bit of patience and planning.  If she wants to be part of a long-term couple, she needs to realize that her actions and decisions affect someone else now, and can negatively affect the life you guys are trying to build together.  Basically, she needs to grow up, communicate, and learn to negotiate a reasonable compromise that meets her reasonable desire for a new(er) vehicle while meeting your need to manage that in the most cost-effective way possible.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2017, 09:19:39 AM »
Well, most places typically have a 24-48 hour (some even 72 hour) policy of return the vehicle, no questions asked.  I don't know about her particular situation, but if she agreed it was impulsive, you could see if she'd be interested in doing that.

If she really hates her current car, give her some options that are reasonable.  Like a used Prius - they run forever and get great gas mileage.  Or a more reasonable way to finance a "new" (used) car.  Just tearing her down and telling her why her choice is bad isn't going to be too helpful.  Give her some alternatives and show her why they might be beneficial.

privatevoid

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2017, 09:51:05 AM »
I think you are having a wrong impression here.
The way I wrote my post was aggressive but also a way to get this out instead of on her face.
I never lost my patience or manners with my GF.

I tried to explain over and over the numbers but she goes back to reasons like: I hate my car; my car is too expensive to repair, my car is loosing value and if I dont trade it in now it will loose all it's value in 3 years.

As of today she realized that her purchase did not make sense financially but she likes the car.

If having a car that's cheap to fix and retains its value is her goal, might I suggest a Honda Fit or similar! The Prius is a good suggestion as well. As the other posters have mentioned, approaching this in a constructive way with clear communication has the best chance of success! The car she picked out might align with her goals, but there might be an even better car out there that meets these (sensible) goals that you can find together.

Diagnosing your relationship, in my mind, is beyond the scope of this thread. :)

Scortius

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2017, 10:27:55 AM »
The problem is mostly because you're not communicating well with your girlfriend.  That's on you.  What you didn't realize is that your 'help' didn't address or solve any of her problems, mostly because you didn't pay attention to what she was really needing and wanting.  You saw 'MATH PROBLEM' and quickly solved it for her and showed her better numbers.  She's trying to solve a "I'M BORED WITH MY CAR" problem, which you understandably think isn't a problem at all.  That's your disconnect, and that's what you two need to talk about.

You can't start with the numbers.  She's throwing out numbers because she's already moved past the real problem, which is "how do I justify buying a new car to myself".  Showing her that she can't justify buying a new car isn't solving her problem, it's removing the solution she found to her problem.  You need to stop and go back and talk about the root issue here, which is that she now wants a different car, and you don't think she should get a different car.  This is not about money to her.  You need to ask more to try and understand just why she now wants a different car.  Where there any specific events that happened recently?  Did a friend just get a new car?  Did she have a weird driving experience recently?  Once you get to a better understanding of where this is coming from, you can help her solve HER problem, which is replacing the car she doesn't want anymore.

You can do this in a number of ways.  If you can uncover the root of that desire, it may make it possible for her to realize what's driving that impulse and back off.  Or, if she still wants to move forward, you can help her achieve her goal by working with her to develop a plan where she ends up with a car that she can also emotionally justify to herself.  Put together a plan where you work together to research used cars, think about payments, and end up in a place where she gets a car that you also feel good about.  You both win (kind of)! 

The basic answer though is that you can't fight emotional impulses with _MATH_.  You need to get to the emotional causes, not the financial ones.

MrsPete

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2017, 12:27:02 PM »
She's probably on some other board typing, "Why doesn't my boyfriend realize I'm an adult woman who earns her own money?  He made his point clear -- I heard him -- and maybe this isn't the best business decision, but I want this item for myself.  Why can't he see that I am entitled spend my own money as I please?" 

Seriously, she's your girlfriend, not your wife.  It's her business.  The real question is, are the two of you compatible?

honeybbq

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2017, 02:19:27 PM »
She's buying a USED Kia. It's not like she's taking out huge loans for a fancy pants BMW. Support your GF in having a car she likes and can afford even if she could have done better.

Car Jack

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2017, 02:42:21 PM »
I do get a kick out of the "it might die in 3 years" statement.  Then I picture the hamsters driving the Soul in the commercial.  Then I want to blurt out "I might die in 3 years". 

Giro

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2017, 02:52:23 PM »
I do get a kick out of the "it might die in 3 years" statement.  Then I picture the hamsters driving the Soul in the commercial.  Then I want to blurt out "I might die in 3 years".

agree.

I was reading the responses and thinking...seriously?  this is a used Kia not a new Mercedes. 

I would leave him if I were her.

Zamboni

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2017, 03:09:45 PM »
Quote
As of today she realized that her purchase did not make sense financially but she likes the car.

Well, she does spend a lot of time in her car. Most car buying decisions are completely stupid, even ones that people ponder over for months and rationalize away.

Viewed through the lens of normal Americans, she is completely normal. We on this board are the weirdos. Always remember that. She is normal. You are the weirdo. Girls who are weirdos are like rare jewels and can be quite hard to find. Girls who like weirdos might be even harder to find (although this board is chock full of us!)

Count your blessings that she even discussed it with you. My ex-spouse once left for work in his normal car and drove home in a brand new Lexus . . . we weren't even discussing car shopping! Of course, we are divorced now . . . he still has the Lexus.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2017, 03:16:51 PM »
The problem is mostly because you're not communicating well with your girlfriend.  That's on you.  What you didn't realize is that your 'help' didn't address or solve any of her problems, mostly because you didn't pay attention to what she was really needing and wanting.  You saw 'MATH PROBLEM' and quickly solved it for her and showed her better numbers.  She's trying to solve a "I'M BORED WITH MY CAR" problem, which you understandably think isn't a problem at all.  That's your disconnect, and that's what you two need to talk about.

You can't start with the numbers.  She's throwing out numbers because she's already moved past the real problem, which is "how do I justify buying a new car to myself".  Showing her that she can't justify buying a new car isn't solving her problem, it's removing the solution she found to her problem.  You need to stop and go back and talk about the root issue here, which is that she now wants a different car, and you don't think she should get a different car.  This is not about money to her.  You need to ask more to try and understand just why she now wants a different car.  Where there any specific events that happened recently?  Did a friend just get a new car?  Did she have a weird driving experience recently?  Once you get to a better understanding of where this is coming from, you can help her solve HER problem, which is replacing the car she doesn't want anymore.

You can do this in a number of ways.  If you can uncover the root of that desire, it may make it possible for her to realize what's driving that impulse and back off.  Or, if she still wants to move forward, you can help her achieve her goal by working with her to develop a plan where she ends up with a car that she can also emotionally justify to herself.  Put together a plan where you work together to research used cars, think about payments, and end up in a place where she gets a car that you also feel good about.  You both win (kind of)! 

The basic answer though is that you can't fight emotional impulses with _MATH_.  You need to get to the emotional causes, not the financial ones.
+1

aalferez

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2017, 07:45:44 PM »
I think you are having a wrong impression here.
The way I wrote my post was aggressive but also a way to get this out instead of on her face.
I never lost my patience or manners with my GF.

I tried to explain over and over the numbers but she goes back to reasons like: I hate my car; my car is too expensive to repair, my car is loosing value and if I dont trade it in now it will loose all it's value in 3 years.

As of today she realized that her purchase did not make sense financially but she likes the car.

I'm glad to hear the tone was just venting (understandable).

I'm going to repeat what some others have said: there is a lot of distance between you guys on basic financial values, and a clear lack of communication skills.  Use this as an opportunity to evaluate how much this relationship means to both of you and, if you want it to last, work on bridging those gaps and improving how you communicate.

IMO, btw, you're both wrong.  Only on this board is it face-punch-worthy to trade in a 9-year-old vehicle with 170K miles on it -- a "normal" person would have dumped that thing half its life ago.  Yes, it's not particularly Mustachian, but that doesn't mean it is wrong or stupid.  So to treat your GF as if she is bat-shit crazy for wanting a new vehicle is way, way off-base -- especially if, as you say, she drives a lot and relies on her vehicle to be reliable and safe and not leave her stranded somewhere far away from home.  And she bought a used one to boot!  She didn't go into a dealer and plop down $50K for a new luxe-mobile -- she went to Carmax and found a cheap used car!  So step #1 to better communication is to find a way to acknowledge -- to her -- that her underlying desire for a new vehicle is not crazy or nuts or stupid, and that her decision to focus on a used vehicle was smart and rational. 

OTOH, the way she went about it was badly thought-out and impulsive, and the result of her impulsivity was the unnecessary loss of several thousand dollars.  Unless you guys are making $500K/yr, that is a non-trivial loss -- especially because it was totally avoidable with the slightest bit of patience and planning.  If she wants to be part of a long-term couple, she needs to realize that her actions and decisions affect someone else now, and can negatively affect the life you guys are trying to build together.  Basically, she needs to grow up, communicate, and learn to negotiate a reasonable compromise that meets her reasonable desire for a new(er) vehicle while meeting your need to manage that in the most cost-effective way possible.

And that was part of the talk I had with her. That she asked for my advice and then she didnt want it because it wasnt what she wanted to hear.
And I understand completely that she likes a new car and all of that, I would like a new car, but I don't do it.
My OP was just venting here instead of loosing my cool with her.

aalferez

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2017, 07:48:44 PM »
Well, most places typically have a 24-48 hour (some even 72 hour) policy of return the vehicle, no questions asked.  I don't know about her particular situation, but if she agreed it was impulsive, you could see if she'd be interested in doing that.

If she really hates her current car, give her some options that are reasonable.  Like a used Prius - they run forever and get great gas mileage.  Or a more reasonable way to finance a "new" (used) car.  Just tearing her down and telling her why her choice is bad isn't going to be too helpful.  Give her some alternatives and show her why they might be beneficial.
I told her to think about it. It was 8pm on Friday and I said to go home and sleep on it.
There are way many options and better options than a 2010 Kia Soul for $12.5K.
She woke up that day thinking about a new car and at the end of the day she got a new car.
No mater what I explained to her she was solid on thinking that it was the best decision ever.

aalferez

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2017, 07:54:46 PM »
The problem is mostly because you're not communicating well with your girlfriend.  That's on you.  What you didn't realize is that your 'help' didn't address or solve any of her problems, mostly because you didn't pay attention to what she was really needing and wanting.  You saw 'MATH PROBLEM' and quickly solved it for her and showed her better numbers.  She's trying to solve a "I'M BORED WITH MY CAR" problem, which you understandably think isn't a problem at all.  That's your disconnect, and that's what you two need to talk about.

You can't start with the numbers.  She's throwing out numbers because she's already moved past the real problem, which is "how do I justify buying a new car to myself".  Showing her that she can't justify buying a new car isn't solving her problem, it's removing the solution she found to her problem.  You need to stop and go back and talk about the root issue here, which is that she now wants a different car, and you don't think she should get a different car.  This is not about money to her.  You need to ask more to try and understand just why she now wants a different car.  Where there any specific events that happened recently?  Did a friend just get a new car?  Did she have a weird driving experience recently?  Once you get to a better understanding of where this is coming from, you can help her solve HER problem, which is replacing the car she doesn't want anymore.

You can do this in a number of ways.  If you can uncover the root of that desire, it may make it possible for her to realize what's driving that impulse and back off.  Or, if she still wants to move forward, you can help her achieve her goal by working with her to develop a plan where she ends up with a car that she can also emotionally justify to herself.  Put together a plan where you work together to research used cars, think about payments, and end up in a place where she gets a car that you also feel good about.  You both win (kind of)! 

The basic answer though is that you can't fight emotional impulses with _MATH_.  You need to get to the emotional causes, not the financial ones.

It's real that I am not getting to make her understand.
Because I understand that wanting a new car is fine. But changing from a 2008 Honda CRV to a 2010 Kia Soul and having to pay $150 a month for 5 years is nonsense.
She didn't want me to sit and look for cars and talk about options.

aalferez

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2017, 07:55:26 PM »
The basic answer though is that you can't fight emotional impulses with _MATH_.  You need to get to the emotional causes, not the financial ones.

You are probably right about that.

Jon Bon

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2017, 07:58:12 PM »


The basic answer though is that you can't fight emotional impulses with _MATH_.  You need to get to the emotional causes, not the financial ones.

LOL


I need remember this next time I have a fight. In my mind math is always the answer!

LouLou

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2017, 08:12:16 PM »
Well, most places typically have a 24-48 hour (some even 72 hour) policy of return the vehicle, no questions asked.  I don't know about her particular situation, but if she agreed it was impulsive, you could see if she'd be interested in doing that.

If she really hates her current car, give her some options that are reasonable.  Like a used Prius - they run forever and get great gas mileage.  Or a more reasonable way to finance a "new" (used) car.  Just tearing her down and telling her why her choice is bad isn't going to be too helpful.  Give her some alternatives and show her why they might be beneficial.
I told her to think about it. It was 8pm on Friday and I said to go home and sleep on it.
There are way many options and better options than a 2010 Kia Soul for $12.5K.
She woke up that day thinking about a new car and at the end of the day she got a new car.
No mater what I explained to her she was solid on thinking that it was the best decision ever.

The impulsiveness would bother me to. Something to think about. Is her impulsiveness exciting to you sometimes or just always annoying? I personally don't like impulsiveness about major decisions like a car purchase.

privatevoid

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2017, 08:14:08 PM »
Quote
having to pay $150 a month for 5 years is nonsense.

Er, I realize it's debt, but this doesn't seem unreasonable to me for a reliable used car.

Quote
I was reading the responses and thinking...seriously?  this is a used Kia not a new Mercedes. 

yeah.

Ann

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2017, 08:29:23 PM »
No mater what I explained to her she was solid on thinking that it was the best decision ever.

I both understand your frustration and see the flaw.  It bothers me when someone says "I am going to do X because of ABC" when I know ABC is wrong.  However, I would have been perfectly happy with "I am going to do X because I want to" because I understand the logic.


Realize, however, you are basically arguing "Your decision was bad and you should feel bad .... and admit I am right."

This is more a compatibility issue than a financial issue.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 08:31:24 PM by Ann »

ixtap

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2017, 08:35:35 PM »
No mater what I explained to her she was solid on thinking that it was the best decision ever.

I both understand your frustration and see the flaw.  It bothers me when someone says "I am going to do X because of ABC" when I know ABC is wrong.  However, I would have been perfectly happy with "I am going to do X because I want to" because I understand the logic.


Realize, however, you are basically arguing "Your decision was bad and you should feel bad .... and admit I am right."

This is more a compatibility issue than a financial issue.

Right? I have a colleague who always says his idea is easier, no matter how complicated his idea is. Uh, it may be what you prefer, but it is not easier.

Psychstache

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2017, 10:01:19 PM »


That she asked for my advice and then she didnt want it because it wasnt what she wanted to hear.

Is this your first time giving advice to other humans? Because that is pretty much what happens every time you give advice to someone. 

Most people want affirmation, not information.

Carrie

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2017, 10:22:09 PM »
I can't get past financing a 7 year old KIA for FIVE MORE years.  It likely won't last that long.
I understand the frustration you feel, op, and wonder are there other areas in the relationship that are equally as frustrating?  Maybe a compatibility issue. I'd not be ok with that kind of impulsiveness AND lack of math/reasoning skills.

ender

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2017, 06:17:36 AM »
What did you to to talk through her concerns with her current car?

This reads like the conversation went something like:

  • GF: I don't like my car. I hate driving it and drive it 1000+ miles a month
  • OP: cool story, suck it up
  • GF: I think I'm going to buy this Kia, I like it and it is a lot better fit for me and what I want to do
  • OP: that's dumb how can you be so stupid
  • GF: .... I don't want to pay $3500 for repairs over the next 3 years and I hate this car
  • OP: that's bad math, you're actually paying $2k more, how can you do such a dumb mathematical thing
  • GF: thank you for listening to my concerns about disliking my current vehicle and helping me with resolving them, I really appreciate your interest in helping me solve those issues (NOT, thanks for being judgmental and condescending). I think I'll just go buy it now since you don't seem to care about me

The last one wasn't probably what she said but almost assuredly what she thought.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Why the hell she does not listen to me!?
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2017, 07:39:23 AM »
As someone who just bought a used car (2014 CRV) about two weeks ago, I too would have been pretty upset if I had to justify my purchase to my wife over hours of conversation.

I had a 2008 Ford Focus that I drove for 10-11 years. It's a long story how I ended up with that car, but long story short I didn't pick it and then had to make payments on it anyway. It finally needed about $1,200 in repairs/maintenance and $2,400 to fix the A/C and that was enough for me to be done with it. Like your GF, I didn't go crazy, but instead bought a car I always liked that was reasonably priced.

I certainly could have made a better mathematical purchase. I could have bought a 2014 Fit or an older CRV with more miles that was less expensive. But I wanted a newer car with more room and less miles. 

It seems to me that your GF went through a similar rationalization process, and it all seems reasonable to me.

***

ALL THAT SAID, this forum has a tendency to idolize the non-posting spouse. Everyone always gangs up on the OP and talks about how bad they suck at communicating. "I would dump you" posts have appeared probably 4-5 times in this thread. This ganging up on OP happens all the time in these types of threads.

I personally think it's absolute bullshit that she didn't bring you with her to the dealership and didn't involve you in the decision making process. I made it a huge point to look at cars with my wife, tell her my reasons for what I wanted, and I even brought her to the dealership with me. She actually convinced me to get a CRV instead of a Civic because I listened what she had to say.

The way your GF went about this just wasn't right.

***

As another poster in this thread indicated, seems like both of you were wrong. Don't make a bigger deal out of this than it is. She can always pay the car off sooner. Move along and don't make a mountain out of a molehill.