Author Topic: Why is moderation so damn hard?  (Read 2938 times)

rothwem

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: WNC
Why is moderation so damn hard?
« on: December 02, 2022, 11:08:44 AM »
Every year, October comes and smacks us in the face financially.  Its a combination of factors--its my birthday month, my son's birthday month, its our anniversary, the weather is gorgeous, etc, so we tend to go out more, travel more and host more events.  That is usually combined with the timing of our healthcare and daycare FSAs running out, so we tend to have less coming in.  This year it was especially bad since we've got an additional kid and the current inflation trend has made food a lot more expensive and by month's end, we had completely blown it.  We almost doubled our allowed food spend, we made Jeff Bezos way richer by buying lots of instant garbage and we somehow burned through an entire 12 pack of paper towels. 

My wife and I typically do a month end financial meeting, and at this one I had a little freak out and we clamped down hard in November.  We basically didn't buy anything that wasn't completely necessary to survive, we went cheap for the thanksgiving meal and we made it under budget by a significant amount.  It was excruciating though, and I don't think we can keep up this pace.  Paper towels for example...holy shit.  When you have a 9 month old that smears food everyfuckingwhere when she eats, its really nice to have a damp paper towel at the ready.  I'm concerned that December is going to be a shitshow though. 

It would be much better to be moderate, but for some reason its incredibly hard to do that.  It seems like if I spend money on something discretionary, it sends the signal to my wife that the flood gates are open and the Amazon packages just start piling up at the door.  Its not all her fault though, I tend to get lazy and neglect to pack a lunch so I have to drop $15 on lunch at work, and since that's the easier option it seems to compound and it happens over and over again until the end of the month when I have to pay the damn credit card and have an aneurysm. 

So what are everyone's tips for being moderate?  When I look back at the monthly spend, there's a definite sine wave with the midline hovering around our budget limit, and I'd REALLY like to decrease the amplitude. 

NotJen

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1767
  • Location: USA
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2022, 11:22:32 AM »
My spend has always been super lumpy, and looking at things on a monthly basis never made sense to me.  I do update my numbers frequently, but I analyze spending/budget on an annual basis.


For the work lunches - what worked for me was getting in the habit of packing lunches in advance (my lunches were always salads that I made on Sunday, paired with leftovers meals or meats from the freezer), BUT only for 4 days of the week.  That gave me flexibility to eat out with co-workers or my BF or just have a get-out-of-the-office break if I really needed it once a week.

charis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3281
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2022, 11:33:11 AM »
Every year, October comes and smacks us in the face financially.  Its a combination of factors--its my birthday month, my son's birthday month, its our anniversary, the weather is gorgeous, etc, so we tend to go out more, travel more and host more events.  That is usually combined with the timing of our healthcare and daycare FSAs running out, so we tend to have less coming in.  This year it was especially bad since we've got an additional kid and the current inflation trend has made food a lot more expensive and by month's end, we had completely blown it.  We almost doubled our allowed food spend, we made Jeff Bezos way richer by buying lots of instant garbage and we somehow burned through an entire 12 pack of paper towels. 

My wife and I typically do a month end financial meeting, and at this one I had a little freak out and we clamped down hard in November.  We basically didn't buy anything that wasn't completely necessary to survive, we went cheap for the thanksgiving meal and we made it under budget by a significant amount.  It was excruciating though, and I don't think we can keep up this pace.  Paper towels for example...holy shit.  When you have a 9 month old that smears food everyfuckingwhere when she eats, its really nice to have a damp paper towel at the ready.  I'm concerned that December is going to be a shitshow though. 

It would be much better to be moderate, but for some reason its incredibly hard to do that.  It seems like if I spend money on something discretionary, it sends the signal to my wife that the flood gates are open and the Amazon packages just start piling up at the door.  Its not all her fault though, I tend to get lazy and neglect to pack a lunch so I have to drop $15 on lunch at work, and since that's the easier option it seems to compound and it happens over and over again until the end of the month when I have to pay the damn credit card and have an aneurysm. 

So what are everyone's tips for being moderate?  When I look back at the monthly spend, there's a definite sine wave with the midline hovering around our budget limit, and I'd REALLY like to decrease the amplitude.

Is your "budget" realistic?  It's hard to know what "moderation" means for you without knowing how you arrived at your budget.  When you are complaining about the cost of paper towels when you have a 9 month old, you might be toeing the line too hard, unless you truly can't afford paper towel.  The bold parts also jumped out at me as a bit of a red flag.

I think monthly budgeting can be useful when you are just starting out and really need to get a handle on overspending.  But I agree with @NotJen that annual spending analysis makes more sense after that. 

Tigerpine

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
  • Location: On Life's Journey
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2022, 11:45:44 AM »
I think the most important thing is to think in terms of your overall lifestyle.  I don't have kids, so I can't speak to that element, but I can say that in terms of my family, we don't see things as very rewarding.  We don't engage in retail therapy of any kind.  If you or your wife do that, you or she should take a minute to think about why that is.

We used to go to a lot of estate sales.  When you look at a complete stranger's house and see other random strangers rummaging through the deceased's stuff, it really brings it home that you can't and won't take it with you.  For me, that translates into even less desire to accumulate things.

Also, when buying things, it's good to get into the habit of thinking in terms of the entire life cycle of said thing.  Sometimes I'll talk myself out of getting something because disposal is too much of a hassle, for example.

When looking at your budget, it's important to make it realistic.  If you know your family will have trouble sticking to it, then you need to adjust it to be more reasonable.  Also, don't make your budget too rigid.  We tend to think of spending on three levels:  current month, net year to date, net year as a whole.  If last month's spending was less than budgeted, we'll let some of that money "spill over" for spending on later months.  That's the net year to date.  Alternatively, sometimes we will spend on a category more than allocated in our budget and can't make up for the shortfall by reallocating other budgeted money.  We'll keep track of that in the same way as if there was a surplus and have to tighten our spending later in the year to make up for the shortfall.

Morning Glory

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5218
  • Location: The Garden Path
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2022, 11:56:20 AM »
Harbor freight has really cheap microfiber dish rags. If it's just food smears use a rag and toss into the washing machine.  Reserve paper towels for really nasty messes like vomit.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 11:59:38 AM by Morning Glory »

rothwem

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: WNC
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2022, 12:16:00 PM »
Every year, October comes and smacks us in the face financially.  Its a combination of factors--its my birthday month, my son's birthday month, its our anniversary, the weather is gorgeous, etc, so we tend to go out more, travel more and host more events.  That is usually combined with the timing of our healthcare and daycare FSAs running out, so we tend to have less coming in.  This year it was especially bad since we've got an additional kid and the current inflation trend has made food a lot more expensive and by month's end, we had completely blown it.  We almost doubled our allowed food spend, we made Jeff Bezos way richer by buying lots of instant garbage and we somehow burned through an entire 12 pack of paper towels. 

My wife and I typically do a month end financial meeting, and at this one I had a little freak out and we clamped down hard in November.  We basically didn't buy anything that wasn't completely necessary to survive, we went cheap for the thanksgiving meal and we made it under budget by a significant amount.  It was excruciating though, and I don't think we can keep up this pace.  Paper towels for example...holy shit.  When you have a 9 month old that smears food everyfuckingwhere when she eats, its really nice to have a damp paper towel at the ready.  I'm concerned that December is going to be a shitshow though. 

It would be much better to be moderate, but for some reason its incredibly hard to do that.  It seems like if I spend money on something discretionary, it sends the signal to my wife that the flood gates are open and the Amazon packages just start piling up at the door.  Its not all her fault though, I tend to get lazy and neglect to pack a lunch so I have to drop $15 on lunch at work, and since that's the easier option it seems to compound and it happens over and over again until the end of the month when I have to pay the damn credit card and have an aneurysm. 

So what are everyone's tips for being moderate?  When I look back at the monthly spend, there's a definite sine wave with the midline hovering around our budget limit, and I'd REALLY like to decrease the amplitude.

Is your "budget" realistic?  It's hard to know what "moderation" means for you without knowing how you arrived at your budget.  When you are complaining about the cost of paper towels when you have a 9 month old, you might be toeing the line too hard, unless you truly can't afford paper towel.  The bold parts also jumped out at me as a bit of a red flag.

I think monthly budgeting can be useful when you are just starting out and really need to get a handle on overspending.  But I agree with @NotJen that annual spending analysis makes more sense after that.

It absolutely is realistic.  We came in almost $1000 under this month.  I KNOW it can be done.  I've adjusted our budgets to account for the children's expenses since they were born and all I really want to accomplish during their daycare years is maxing our Roth and Traditional 401k and that shouldn't be too hard on our $150k HHI.  It just seems like I can either go hardcore ERE style reusing dental floss and making myself and my wife miserable, or I can just say "fuck it" and spend all the money. 

I just seem to have a really hard time keeping it down the middle. 

bacchi

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7638
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2022, 12:27:16 PM »
Have you tried a "save first" budget? Save what you want -- Roth + 401k -- and then don't worry about the rest.

mspym

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10673
  • Location: Aotearoa
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2022, 12:28:50 PM »
Do each of you have an assigned amount of free spend money in the budget? Because that might relieve some of the pressure. You can forget your lunch a couple of times, she can buy (I dunno) a new book or whatever but it’s still coming out of a defined pool so you can’t go crazy.

And yeah, if you are going through a 12 pack of paper towels in a month then clothes that you can throw in the wash are a cheap solution. We started using tea towels for all sorts of things about 6 years ago and haven’t bought paper towels since.

MaybeBabyMustache

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6281
    • My Wild Ride to FI
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2022, 12:29:25 PM »
Have you thought about having a $100/month (or, whatever is reasonable) personal budget for each spouse, that they can spend as they'd like? Perhaps that, combined with a reasonable but conservative budget would give you a little flex, and stop the feelings of austerity.

At the end of the day, MMM to me isn't about spending no money & living a life of misery. It's about questioning your decisions, and ensuring that 99% or whatever of all of your shared spending is aligned with your priorities. That's why it's so personal. Me choosing to spend money for a pricey tennis lesson for my 15 y.o. may be totally wild to some people, and similarly, we don't have pets & have zero pet expenses.

On the paper towel front, it seems pretty funny this is the subject of angst, but since it is, we use towels for clean up. We do a lot of laundry anyway, and use paper towels super rarely (grease, etc).

deborah

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 16617
  • Age: 15
  • Location: Australia or another awesome area
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2022, 12:36:54 PM »
Who does the washing? If you do it, substituting rags for paper towels is dead simple, since it’s your call. If you don’t, you should look into who does what around the house. We find that having the person who has more to loose doing a chore makes it easier for both of us to get the chores done.

Tigerpine

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
  • Location: On Life's Journey
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2022, 12:45:42 PM »
It just seems like I can either go hardcore ERE style reusing dental floss and making myself and my wife miserable, or I can just say "fuck it" and spend all the money. 

Does the actual act of spending money bring you or wife pleasure?

I don't think living the "ERE" lifestyle is appropriate in your case at this time, as you clearly can't sustain it.  Therefore, although it can be held up as some sort of idealized state if you chose, for the time being you should realistically remove it as one of your options.

charis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3281
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2022, 12:48:41 PM »
Have you tried a "save first" budget? Save what you want -- Roth + 401k -- and then don't worry about the rest.

This is what we do.  We have automatic deductions going to 401ks/HSA/mortgage/savings account so that part doesn't even hit the joint checking account.  We don't budget but if I find us running close to the reserve amount in the check accounting, I'll look at the spending data in Mint to see where things could be tightened up (usually food).

Another thing I do is pay the credit card weekly (sometimes more if a big transaction) instead of monthly.  It helps with the blood pressure.

rothwem

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: WNC
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2022, 02:11:28 PM »
Have you tried a "save first" budget? Save what you want -- Roth + 401k -- and then don't worry about the rest.

I mean, this is kinda what we do.  Tax-advantaged savings is deposited directly from my paycheck.  We use a credit card for everything for the cash back though, so the feedback loop is lost. 

Perhaps I need to do this:
Another thing I do is pay the credit card weekly (sometimes more if a big transaction) instead of monthly.  It helps with the blood pressure.

It might help add a bit of resolution to the feedback loop so its not too far off when we realize that its going over. 

Have you thought about having a $100/month (or, whatever is reasonable) personal budget for each spouse, that they can spend as they'd like? Perhaps that, combined with a reasonable but conservative budget would give you a little flex, and stop the feelings of austerity.

At the end of the day, MMM to me isn't about spending no money & living a life of misery. It's about questioning your decisions, and ensuring that 99% or whatever of all of your shared spending is aligned with your priorities. That's why it's so personal. Me choosing to spend money for a pricey tennis lesson for my 15 y.o. may be totally wild to some people, and similarly, we don't have pets & have zero pet expenses.

On the paper towel front, it seems pretty funny this is the subject of angst, but since it is, we use towels for clean up. We do a lot of laundry anyway, and use paper towels super rarely (grease, etc).

I guess this is the focus of my post...I'm well aware that the ERE lifestyle isn't for us.  I just have a hard time navigating the in-between.  Both my wife and I are very goal oriented, and we tend to be all or nothing type of people.  And for money, it seems like we can either crash diet or binge and its just as unhealthy in financial matters as it is for your body. I'm trying to seek a way to be consistent. 

And yeah, forget about the paper towels.  $30 worth of paper towels isn't going to break us.  We have plenty of hand towels.  We have a 9 month old and a 3 year old so we do laundry just about every day.  I just thought that the excess paper towel consumption was emblematic of our issue last month, since they're so much easier than a regular towel. 

Laura33

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3826
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2022, 02:41:25 PM »
Is your "budget" realistic?  It's hard to know what "moderation" means for you without knowing how you arrived at your budget.  When you are complaining about the cost of paper towels when you have a 9 month old, you might be toeing the line too hard, unless you truly can't afford paper towel.  The bold parts also jumped out at me as a bit of a red flag.

It absolutely is realistic.  We came in almost $1000 under this month.  I KNOW it can be done.

But you also bitched mightily about how tight things were this month.  The fact that you can white-knuckle something for one month doesn't make it a reasonable life plan.  Just ask anyone who's ever been on a crash diet.

Some other thoughts:

If you're not a "moderation" person, stop trying to be moderate.  Some of us are happier with a mellow, predictable course, while others of us are happier with more dramatic swings.  Personally, I'd much rather brown bag my lunches every day and use the savings to go to my favorite restaurant every few weeks vs. blowing that money on meaningless deli sandwiches.  My husband, OTOH, uses his lunch break to literally walk away from work for an hour and eat with friends, so he's always throwing $15-20 at lunch.  The only thing that really matters is that what we each do suits our own needs. 

And even if you do enjoy being on a more even keel, life doesn't work that way.  You said it yourself:  look at what happens to you in October -- every October.  So why would you plan a budget for October that is the same as, say, February, when you don't have birthdays and anniversaries and great weather to go play in?  It would be like me kicking myself for going over budget for a month because my car needed both new tires and a service; I mean, I knew it was going to happen, there really wasn't any way to avoid it (and in your case, you don't want to avoid it), so if I'm freaking out over a month where I spend more because of things I knew were going to happen, then I'm doing something wrong.  This is why you have that cushion in your bank account, because life is lumpy like that.  If you're getting upset at the lumps, maybe you need a bigger cushion so you don't need to worry so much in a particularly bumpy month?

Also: you are in a fairly new world with a young child.  Littles tend to wreak havoc with both your finances and your lifestyle -- they require significant amounts of both time and money, but they don't arrive with a checking account, nor does their presence add any more hours to the day.  So if you were already fully budgeted and busy with your lives before the kiddo came, that means you're going to have to take that time and money from somewhere else -- which means you're going to feel strapped a lot more. 

The reason I mention that isn't because kids naturally require a 12-pack of paper towels every month.  It's because trying to stretch your time and money in new directions adds a ton of stress into your life.  And stress shuts down the rational part of your brain, at exactly the same time it forces you to do something to blow off that steam.  And that is just a killer for any kind of budget.  Your DW may be managing her time crunch and stress by picking up stuff online; you then appear to be managing your stress by forgetting to pack lunch (or deciding not to because reasons) and blowing up over the budget.*  Neither approach is particularly healthy long-term, regardless of whether you're over- or under-budget in any given month.  It also isn't going to be effective; if she's shopping to relieve stress, then your getting upset and imposing draconian limits and all that is only going to ratchet up that stress higher; she may be able to toe the line for a month or so, but that extra stress is going to make itself known at some point -- and it's going to do so in a negative way.

So the first thing I'd recommend is to take a step away from the finances in particular and start talking to your wife about your daily lifestyle -- what's working, what isn't working, how do you each feel about your current roles, what can you both do to take off some of the daily pressure, etc.  The budget is the symptom, not the cause.  Figure out the "why" of it -- why do you decide that it's not worth packing lunch at night/on the weekend so it's ready to go; why do you feel like it's ok for you to buy something fun but your wife can't; why do you continue to get angry about something that is entirely predictable; why is she shopping all the time (and is it really fun stuff for her, or is it things for the house/baby?)? 

IOW, it isn't about "moderation" one way or another; it's about managing your stress in a more productive way.  You are currently clamping down for a few months, until you can't any more it blows and all that anxiety and unhappiness suddenly breaks loose for a while; then, of course, once all that stress is vented, you naturally calm down and can return to a more controlled life for a few months until the pressure hits that boiling point again.  From the outside, it looks like you just can't manage moderation, when in reality, it's that you need to manage your stress more effectively. 


*And maybe October tends to be a bad month not just because you have more things to spend money on, but because you have so many more things than usual that you have to fit into that already-jammed schedule, so the fuse on your ability to make good financial decisions is even shorter than usual.

MrGreen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4499
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Wilmington, NC
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2022, 02:47:38 PM »
Regarding the paper towel issues specifically,  consider using a washcloth on the messy baby instead. Easily washed, better for the environment, and better for your wallet. We have a nine month old as well and haven't had any issues using washcloths so far during messy meal time. We have some good friends who are quick to grab the paper towels too and I think it's more of a habit than a preference with them. They also go through paper towels at a very high rate.

Sibley

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7937
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2022, 10:15:56 PM »
Regarding the paper towel issues specifically,  consider using a washcloth on the messy baby instead. Easily washed, better for the environment, and better for your wallet. We have a nine month old as well and haven't had any issues using washcloths so far during messy meal time. We have some good friends who are quick to grab the paper towels too and I think it's more of a habit than a preference with them. They also go through paper towels at a very high rate.

Heck, they make plastic mats for the floor so when food ends up everywhere at least its easier the pick up the mat and hose it off. I have one under the litterbox upstairs. I think it cost about $15? Or just go get a cheapo plasticized table cloth from the dollar store.

rothwem

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: WNC
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2022, 12:21:51 PM »
Is your "budget" realistic?  It's hard to know what "moderation" means for you without knowing how you arrived at your budget.  When you are complaining about the cost of paper towels when you have a 9 month old, you might be toeing the line too hard, unless you truly can't afford paper towel.  The bold parts also jumped out at me as a bit of a red flag.

It absolutely is realistic.  We came in almost $1000 under this month.  I KNOW it can be done.

But you also bitched mightily about how tight things were this month.  The fact that you can white-knuckle something for one month doesn't make it a reasonable life plan.  Just ask anyone who's ever been on a crash diet.


Hey @Laura33, thanks for the insightful post.  I can tell you put a lot of thought into it and I appreciate it.  There's definitely some stuff that hits home here.  I'm definitely going to have to marinate on some stuff before I respond. 

Dulcimina

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 206
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2022, 01:11:00 PM »
Is your "budget" realistic?  It's hard to know what "moderation" means for you without knowing how you arrived at your budget.  When you are complaining about the cost of paper towels when you have a 9 month old, you might be toeing the line too hard, unless you truly can't afford paper towel.  The bold parts also jumped out at me as a bit of a red flag.

It absolutely is realistic.  We came in almost $1000 under this month.  I KNOW it can be done.

But you also bitched mightily about how tight things were this month.  The fact that you can white-knuckle something for one month doesn't make it a reasonable life plan.  Just ask anyone who's ever been on a crash diet.


Hey @Laura33, thanks for the insightful post.  I can tell you put a lot of thought into it and I appreciate it.  There's definitely some stuff that hits home here.  I'm definitely going to have to marinate on some stuff before I respond. 
@Laura33 said what I wanted to say so much better than I ever could.  I'm an "abstainer" not a "moderator", and I play to my strengths. For example, in my diet, I'd rather fast than eat in moderation.  Instead of having to figure out the extent to which I eat in moderation, I can either eat freely or have a hard stop once the eating window closes.  In budget, I figure out what my reasonable discretionary looks like for the year, and set aside 1/12 that amount in a linked savings account.  When my version of your October comes around, then I can draw from that linked account and not worry that I am over my monthly budget. 

I have a pressure release valve for personal stuff like hobbies and entertainment.  If I don't go to a concert one year, then I can spend that much more on eating lunches out that year.  It's worth it to me to meal prep weekly, so I can have the experiences. 

As for the flood of Amazon packages, there are a few weird things in my cart under 'save for later' like the novelty ice ball maker (I don't add ice to beverages), and a traditional wooden mooncake mold (it was pretty and I may learn how to make mooncakes someday).  Maybe your family could try saving some items for later too? Or do all your Christmas shopping at once so when you're in shopping mode, you're getting things things you planned for rather novelty items you'll never use?

mistymoney

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3041
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2022, 02:02:08 PM »
Sounds like you don't really want to curtail things. If true, open a "fall festivities" savings account and autodeposit 25/paycheck, 50/paycheck, whatever jan-sept, and then live it up in the fall.

Gremlin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 598
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2022, 02:42:20 PM »
And even if you do enjoy being on a more even keel, life doesn't work that way.  You said it yourself:  look at what happens to you in October -- every October.  So why would you plan a budget for October that is the same as, say, February, when you don't have birthdays and anniversaries and great weather to go play in? 

*And maybe October tends to be a bad month not just because you have more things to spend money on, but because you have so many more things than usual that you have to fit into that already-jammed schedule, so the fuse on your ability to make good financial decisions is even shorter than usual.

THIS!

We used to have a flat monthly budget.  Not only did it make life difficult when life happened, but it also put unnecessary stress on Mrs G and I to 'comply' with the budget in those naturally high-spending months.  Shorter fuses, more stress and more disagreements.

We now have the same annual budget, but month to month it varies depending on what we expect the ebbs and flows of life to be.  For us, it's December and May that are the 'big' months.  The difference is quite stark.  For example, we budget to spend 85% more in December than we do in November (our lowest budget month).  Importantly, we haven't increased our overall budget - we've just redistributed it across the year.  Mrs G and I appreciated when we did it that it would make tracking our finances easier.  I don't think we appreciated the other benefits it would have.  The reduction in stress levels, how aligned we are on spending behaviours and our overall improvement in temperament is huge.

RunningintoFI

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 161
  • Paid to optimize. Love not to.
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2022, 08:20:32 PM »
My approach to this sort of problem has been to front-load things into the months that I know are not going to be spendy as much as I can control.   January & February are historically cheaper months because the extreme cold where I live tends to keep the urge to venture out in check for everyone around.  So I lean into this extra hard for budgeting purposes. 

The first two months of the year are low spend months and challenge myself to engage in cheaper alternatives for socializing or using up food that's sitting in my freezer/pantry.  By going a bit harder on the budget for 1/6 of the year, I have a lot more freedom the other 5/6 of the year.  I view it the same way a runner does - winter time is for building the base mileage for all the bigger and more exciting things later in the year. 

YMMV but I've found this to be a great way to equip myself for yearly success without much stress.  Doubly so when you max out things like Roth IRAs in the first month or two and can free up that extra cash flow the rest of the months. 

deborah

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 16617
  • Age: 15
  • Location: Australia or another awesome area
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2022, 02:39:17 AM »
I separate annual expenses out of my budget. I have to have the money that month for them, but they don't count when I divide the budget into monthly allowances. I use the previous year's expense as a guide for how much they'll be so I won't be caught short. Things like insurance bills, car registration, home rates... They all seem to land in two months of the year.

rothwem

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: WNC
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2022, 09:15:11 AM »
If you're not a "moderation" person, stop trying to be moderate.  Some of us are happier with a mellow, predictable course, while others of us are happier with more dramatic swings. 

So, I this might be one of the issues I'm having.  I'm very much a "routine" kind of person, and I like to put day to day stuff on autopilot so it requires less brain energy to manage.  For example, I've had oatmeal with frozen fruit and peanut butter just about every morning for the last ~14 years or so.  Sometimes I get wild and switch up what frozen fruit I use, but the basic meal is the same.  Its filling, tastes good and I don't have to think about it at all, I just do it.  My wife is NOT this way though.  She thinks my breakfast habit is insane and never has the same thing for more than a day or two in a row.  She sees variety as the spice of life and my career in manufacturing has conditioned me to view this as "process variation". 

Perhaps this is illustrative of our general lifestyle--my wife likes to plan big things, vacations, meals, parties, etc, while I tend to think that planning stuff like that is exhausting. And while I don't hate going to the actual party, vacation, or eating a special meal is unenjoyable, I rarely think it would be worth the effort if I were to be the one doing the planning.  Its something I love about my wife, she takes me out of my comfort zone on this kind of thing and if I didn't have her around, I probably would be in a rut.  I know I definitely was when we met--I was doing the same workouts, eating the same food and going to the same bar every Friday and Saturday because doing anything else was WAY too much work. 

I've always realized that she was a planner, but I've never really framed it out the way you did @Laura33, that she's just NOT a moderation person and this might be something that we have to work on accommodating. 

EDIT: Just thought about something, maybe I'm not a moderation person either...just an EXTREME ROUTINE-er!  Gah. 

Also: you are in a fairly new world with a young child.  Littles tend to wreak havoc with both your finances and your lifestyle -- they require significant amounts of both time and money, but they don't arrive with a checking account, nor does their presence add any more hours to the day.  So if you were already fully budgeted and busy with your lives before the kiddo came, that means you're going to have to take that time and money from somewhere else -- which means you're going to feel strapped a lot more.

FWIW, we have a 3 year old too in addition to the 9 month old so we're not THAT new to parenting.  Kids (well, at least our kids) ARE moderation people though, so I wonder if they're feeling stressed when we try to mix it up to have a good time with them. 

My wife went to 3x a week when our first was born, and stays home with the kids 2x a week.  I know she feels bored to tears on the days when she's home with the kids, I wonder if the mindless shopping is a symptom of trying to be "productive" after "not getting anything done all day".  I put those in quotes because keeping children alive and entertained IS doing something, even if the house is a wreck when I get home. 

Anyways, it kinda sounds like we need to figure out a way to have an annual "fun budget" for my wife that we can draw down throughout the year.  I'm not sure what we'll do if it gets depleted early, but I guess we'll figure that out when we get there. 

We used to have a flat monthly budget.  Not only did it make life difficult when life happened, but it also put unnecessary stress on Mrs G and I to 'comply' with the budget in those naturally high-spending months.  Shorter fuses, more stress and more disagreements.

We now have the same annual budget, but month to month it varies depending on what we expect the ebbs and flows of life to be.  For us, it's December and May that are the 'big' months.  The difference is quite stark.  For example, we budget to spend 85% more in December than we do in November (our lowest budget month).  Importantly, we haven't increased our overall budget - we've just redistributed it across the year.  Mrs G and I appreciated when we did it that it would make tracking our finances easier.  I don't think we appreciated the other benefits it would have.  The reduction in stress levels, how aligned we are on spending behaviours and our overall improvement in temperament is huge.

What's your actual methodology for this?  Do you have a seperate bank account or something that you use to accomplish this?

Doubly so when you max out things like Roth IRAs in the first month or two and can free up that extra cash flow the rest of the months. 

We have work 401k matches so this is a little tricky.  Maybe I need to flex some engineering excel muscles and figure out the exact amount we can frontload before we lose our matches later in the year. 

Also, not totally unrelated--I used to race bicycles in college and my early 20s, base training was my absolute favorite part of the year, I think I enjoyed it more than the actual racing.  Calm 5 hour rides with my teammates both days on the weekend, coffee stop in the middle, a giant meal and beer at the end, it was so good. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 09:22:21 AM by rothwem »

srrb

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 131
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2022, 09:42:46 AM »
I separate annual expenses out of my budget. I have to have the money that month for them, but they don't count when I divide the budget into monthly allowances. I use the previous year's expense as a guide for how much they'll be so I won't be caught short. Things like insurance bills, car registration, home rates... They all seem to land in two months of the year.
I do this too -- have a separate account that I add a set amount to every month (total annual expenses/12) and then when the big predictable bills come I pay from that account instead of my daily use one. Had to front-load it at first so it wouldn't be wiped out with the withdrawal. Have been doing this for about 15 years. Your big months could be part of a savings plan like this -- assuming you don't want to actually change your purchasing habits.

Gremlin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 598
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2022, 04:16:31 PM »
We used to have a flat monthly budget.  Not only did it make life difficult when life happened, but it also put unnecessary stress on Mrs G and I to 'comply' with the budget in those naturally high-spending months.  Shorter fuses, more stress and more disagreements.

We now have the same annual budget, but month to month it varies depending on what we expect the ebbs and flows of life to be.  For us, it's December and May that are the 'big' months.  The difference is quite stark.  For example, we budget to spend 85% more in December than we do in November (our lowest budget month).  Importantly, we haven't increased our overall budget - we've just redistributed it across the year.  Mrs G and I appreciated when we did it that it would make tracking our finances easier.  I don't think we appreciated the other benefits it would have.  The reduction in stress levels, how aligned we are on spending behaviours and our overall improvement in temperament is huge.

What's your actual methodology for this?  Do you have a seperate bank account or something that you use to accomplish this?


Okay, so this is broadly how we did it.  We track past expenses by category by month and we have them going back 14 years.

We had built our emergency fund to our target of $30k by this stage.

We took a couple of months (thankfully they were low spending months) to bump our emergency fund up another $5k to $35k.  That $5k became our 'buffer'.

We then worked out our expense budget for the year.  Let's say it was $60k (just so we're dealing with nice round numbers).  So we'd allocate $5k of our income each month to covering expenses.

But we knew that some months would be cheaper than others.  We have some expense categories that are the same month to month - food, monthly bills, etc.  Other expenses vary throughout the year - for those we have a go at allocating to the month they belong to.  This includes some expenses for socialising.  We have two distinct months of the year that seem to include all our social obligations.  We don't sweat it any more - there's an allowance there for that (it's not an open checkbook, but we have some money set aside).

Let's say we expected to spend $4k in November and we came in on budget.

We had set aside $5k for the month.  The extra $1k goes into our emergency fund account.  At the end of November our emergency fund account would now be $36k.

But December is our most expensive month.  Let's say we expect to spend $7k in December and we came in on budget.  We use the $5k of income allocated for December and we draw down $2k from our 'buffer'.  The emergency fund would now be $34k.

And January would be cheap again - another $4k expected month.  So the emergency fund gets the extra $1000 and it's back up to $35k. 

At no point over the 12 month cycle does the emergency fund drop below our $30k minimum, but I acknowledge it takes a little bit of work to keep it tracked.  But that little bit of work replaces a whole lot of stress, angst and disagreement so it's a dead easy decision for Mrs G and I.

We also have one other bucket of expenses that's worth mentioning.  Usually we allocate a little bit of money each month to it. We call it our 'Wishlist' fund and we effectively keep it in a separate account to make it easier to track.  It's for large 'one-off' purchases that we know we're going to need, but sit outside our regular month to month budget.  Things like buying our daughter a new bed after she outgrew her child bed or replacing some broken curtains and blinds.

Sibley

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7937
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2022, 06:20:15 PM »
"My wife went to 3x a week when our first was born, and stays home with the kids 2x a week.  I know she feels bored to tears on the days when she's home with the kids, I wonder if the mindless shopping is a symptom of trying to be "productive" after "not getting anything done all day".  I put those in quotes because keeping children alive and entertained IS doing something, even if the house is a wreck when I get home.  "

Change this up. Not everyone wants to be home all day with little kids, even if its not every day. Talk with her, figure out what might work better for her and the family as a whole.

darknight

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 178
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2022, 07:54:03 PM »
Have you tried a "save first" budget? Save what you want -- Roth + 401k -- and then don't worry about the rest.

+1, esp with very young children.

Yeah, it would be better to have reusable diapers, washrags and all the other saving ($$ and environmental) items. However, you're in a tight spot in life with the chaos and family. Save what you need to first, then add some cash each month to a jar, and use the rest on a flexible budget. If you blow your budget, hit the cash. Cash should slow you down.

I get it, sometimes I'll splurge for the paper bowls at costco and the mega pack of paper towels. Kids right now are super into crafts, painting, snow cones with freshly fallen snow, and everything else that's indoors during the snowy season. Skip the extra eating out here and there, try skipping a few of those "Oh we forgot 1 thing at the store i'll drive back!" (...always another $25-$50 spent), skip some of the high-priced holiday themed foods/decorations.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 07:57:19 PM by darknight »

mountainmama

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 93
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2022, 09:37:29 PM »
My kids are in grade school now, but I remember well the days of having a baby and a toddler at the same time. It is NOT an easy time. So, try to enjoy it and also go easy on yourself. Every person only has so much time and energy in a day. This is not the time to maximize almost anything else in your life, besides just trying to keep everyone alive and keeping your relationship steady.

As for trying to watch spending, I use multiple bank accounts and a couple credit cards to help me manage it. Some of my expenses are very regular. (Mortgage, utilities, internet, and even gas and groceries.) All of those expenses are either paid directly from my 'operating account' or a designated credit card. My paycheck is deposited into said 'operating account'. Then, I have an auto-transfer of the amount I expect to have 'left over' every month to another money market account. I use a different credit card for 'spending'. (For me this is anything from Target runs to vacations.) I keep an I on both the credit card and the money market balance. Then I know if I can purchase 'extra' things or not. I usually have an idea if there's something big coming I might need, so I'll be more conservative.
(I'm only trying to max out a 403b currently. If I was trying to save more, I'd have the amount auto-transferred somewhere else every month.)

I'm single now, but when I wasn't, my partner and I had a joint 'operating account' and then transferred a certain amount of spending to separate checking accounts to spend how we wanted every month. It worked pretty well. I saved mine and he spent his!

rothwem

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: WNC
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2022, 08:54:54 AM »


"My wife went to 3x a week when our first was born, and stays home with the kids 2x a week.  I know she feels bored to tears on the days when she's home with the kids, I wonder if the mindless shopping is a symptom of trying to be "productive" after "not getting anything done all day".  I put those in quotes because keeping children alive and entertained IS doing something, even if the house is a wreck when I get home.  "

Change this up. Not everyone wants to be home all day with little kids, even if its not every day. Talk with her, figure out what might work better for her and the family as a whole.

Ugh I wish we could, but its very complicated.  Childcare is really difficult to switch up--the wait lists are years long and we gave up a full time slot to go 3x week.  And basically she'd have to find another job to be able to go full time again an there's not a whole lot available in her field around here. 

She's also got an incredible amount of guilt coming from her family about working at all.  Every time we see her mother, she ends up talking shit about some rich doctor/lawyer/builder, etc at their church that "makes" their wife work despite having *babies* at home. 

As for trying to watch spending, I use multiple bank accounts and a couple credit cards to help me manage it. Some of my expenses are very regular. (Mortgage, utilities, internet, and even gas and groceries.) All of those expenses are either paid directly from my 'operating account' or a designated credit card. My paycheck is deposited into said 'operating account'. Then, I have an auto-transfer of the amount I expect to have 'left over' every month to another money market account. I use a different credit card for 'spending'. (For me this is anything from Target runs to vacations.) I keep an I on both the credit card and the money market balance. Then I know if I can purchase 'extra' things or not. I usually have an idea if there's something big coming I might need, so I'll be more conservative.
(I'm only trying to max out a 403b currently. If I was trying to save more, I'd have the amount auto-transferred somewhere else every month.)

Ack, your system sounds complicated!  Right now I auto-deposit my tax-advantaged savings into their respective accounts and then we use a shared credit card to buy everything, then pay it off at the end of the month.  There's a lot of issues with our way, but it IS simple.  Kinda. 

I might have to add some complexity to increase performance though. 

I separate annual expenses out of my budget. I have to have the money that month for them, but they don't count when I divide the budget into monthly allowances. I use the previous year's expense as a guide for how much they'll be so I won't be caught short. Things like insurance bills, car registration, home rates... They all seem to land in two months of the year.
I do this too -- have a separate account that I add a set amount to every month (total annual expenses/12) and then when the big predictable bills come I pay from that account instead of my daily use one. Had to front-load it at first so it wouldn't be wiped out with the withdrawal. Have been doing this for about 15 years. Your big months could be part of a savings plan like this -- assuming you don't want to actually change your purchasing habits.

This might be the ticket. 

mountainmama

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 93
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2022, 09:08:48 AM »

Ack, your system sounds complicated! 
[/quote]

Yes, it is a little bit! Many years ago, my system was once a month to take out my allowed spending $ in cash. Then, if I wanted to go out to eat or buy something 'extra', I just had to look to see how much was in my wallet! It was so easy and really kept me in bounds. Now, so many of the 'extra' things I might want to buy are online, that this doesn't work very well.

srrb

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 131
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2022, 09:21:51 AM »

...

As for trying to watch spending, I use multiple bank accounts and a couple credit cards to help me manage it. Some of my expenses are very regular. (Mortgage, utilities, internet, and even gas and groceries.) All of those expenses are either paid directly from my 'operating account' or a designated credit card. My paycheck is deposited into said 'operating account'. Then, I have an auto-transfer of the amount I expect to have 'left over' every month to another money market account. I use a different credit card for 'spending'. (For me this is anything from Target runs to vacations.) I keep an I on both the credit card and the money market balance. Then I know if I can purchase 'extra' things or not. I usually have an idea if there's something big coming I might need, so I'll be more conservative.
(I'm only trying to max out a 403b currently. If I was trying to save more, I'd have the amount auto-transferred somewhere else every month.)

Ack, your system sounds complicated!  Right now I auto-deposit my tax-advantaged savings into their respective accounts and then we use a shared credit card to buy everything, then pay it off at the end of the month.  There's a lot of issues with our way, but it IS simple.  Kinda. 

I might have to add some complexity to increase performance though. 

I separate annual expenses out of my budget. I have to have the money that month for them, but they don't count when I divide the budget into monthly allowances. I use the previous year's expense as a guide for how much they'll be so I won't be caught short. Things like insurance bills, car registration, home rates... They all seem to land in two months of the year.
I do this too -- have a separate account that I add a set amount to every month (total annual expenses/12) and then when the big predictable bills come I pay from that account instead of my daily use one. Had to front-load it at first so it wouldn't be wiped out with the withdrawal. Have been doing this for about 15 years. Your big months could be part of a savings plan like this -- assuming you don't want to actually change your purchasing habits.

This might be the ticket.

I started it with $2000 and add $500 a month. It never dips below $1500 now so a bit of an emergency stash too. It covers life, car & house insurance, municipal services, property tax, etc. It's pretty $$$$ right now because so many of the annual bills come due Jan/Feb.

By separating my budget like this I find it easier to manage day-to-day expenses (grocery, sundry, fun, etc) and not have a "have to be super frugal" month because both car insurances are due. I know it's all the same amount in the end but feels more even keel and easier to spot anomalies.
Good luck!

Laura33

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3826
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2022, 10:30:52 AM »
If you're not a "moderation" person, stop trying to be moderate.  Some of us are happier with a mellow, predictable course, while others of us are happier with more dramatic swings. 

So, I this might be one of the issues I'm having.  I'm very much a "routine" kind of person, and I like to put day to day stuff on autopilot so it requires less brain energy to manage.  For example, I've had oatmeal with frozen fruit and peanut butter just about every morning for the last ~14 years or so.  Sometimes I get wild and switch up what frozen fruit I use, but the basic meal is the same.  Its filling, tastes good and I don't have to think about it at all, I just do it.  My wife is NOT this way though.  She thinks my breakfast habit is insane and never has the same thing for more than a day or two in a row.  She sees variety as the spice of life and my career in manufacturing has conditioned me to view this as "process variation". 

Perhaps this is illustrative of our general lifestyle--my wife likes to plan big things, vacations, meals, parties, etc, while I tend to think that planning stuff like that is exhausting. And while I don't hate going to the actual party, vacation, or eating a special meal is unenjoyable, I rarely think it would be worth the effort if I were to be the one doing the planning.  Its something I love about my wife, she takes me out of my comfort zone on this kind of thing and if I didn't have her around, I probably would be in a rut.  I know I definitely was when we met--I was doing the same workouts, eating the same food and going to the same bar every Friday and Saturday because doing anything else was WAY too much work. 

I've always realized that she was a planner, but I've never really framed it out the way you did @Laura33, that she's just NOT a moderation person and this might be something that we have to work on accommodating. 

EDIT: Just thought about something, maybe I'm not a moderation person either...just an EXTREME ROUTINE-er!  Gah. 

Also: you are in a fairly new world with a young child.  Littles tend to wreak havoc with both your finances and your lifestyle -- they require significant amounts of both time and money, but they don't arrive with a checking account, nor does their presence add any more hours to the day.  So if you were already fully budgeted and busy with your lives before the kiddo came, that means you're going to have to take that time and money from somewhere else -- which means you're going to feel strapped a lot more.

FWIW, we have a 3 year old too in addition to the 9 month old so we're not THAT new to parenting.  Kids (well, at least our kids) ARE moderation people though, so I wonder if they're feeling stressed when we try to mix it up to have a good time with them. 

My wife went to 3x a week when our first was born, and stays home with the kids 2x a week.  I know she feels bored to tears on the days when she's home with the kids, I wonder if the mindless shopping is a symptom of trying to be "productive" after "not getting anything done all day".  I put those in quotes because keeping children alive and entertained IS doing something, even if the house is a wreck when I get home. 

Anyways, it kinda sounds like we need to figure out a way to have an annual "fun budget" for my wife that we can draw down throughout the year.  I'm not sure what we'll do if it gets depleted early, but I guess we'll figure that out when we get there. 

We used to have a flat monthly budget.  Not only did it make life difficult when life happened, but it also put unnecessary stress on Mrs G and I to 'comply' with the budget in those naturally high-spending months.  Shorter fuses, more stress and more disagreements.

We now have the same annual budget, but month to month it varies depending on what we expect the ebbs and flows of life to be.  For us, it's December and May that are the 'big' months.  The difference is quite stark.  For example, we budget to spend 85% more in December than we do in November (our lowest budget month).  Importantly, we haven't increased our overall budget - we've just redistributed it across the year.  Mrs G and I appreciated when we did it that it would make tracking our finances easier.  I don't think we appreciated the other benefits it would have.  The reduction in stress levels, how aligned we are on spending behaviours and our overall improvement in temperament is huge.

What's your actual methodology for this?  Do you have a seperate bank account or something that you use to accomplish this?

Doubly so when you max out things like Roth IRAs in the first month or two and can free up that extra cash flow the rest of the months. 

We have work 401k matches so this is a little tricky.  Maybe I need to flex some engineering excel muscles and figure out the exact amount we can frontload before we lose our matches later in the year. 

Also, not totally unrelated--I used to race bicycles in college and my early 20s, base training was my absolute favorite part of the year, I think I enjoyed it more than the actual racing.  Calm 5 hour rides with my teammates both days on the weekend, coffee stop in the middle, a giant meal and beer at the end, it was so good.

First, sounds like you've got a lot of insight into how you work and how your wife works, so you've got a lot to build on.  That's a great start.

Second, I was struck by your characterization of your extreme-routine-ness.  That right there is something to build on, yes?  I mean, if that's your superpower, then figure out how to best deploy it to address your current problems.  For example:  if you adore having the same breakfast every day, why not do the same thing with lunch?  Figure out the thing you want to eat, buy it every weekend, and then pack up 5 days' worth every Sunday so it's just grab-n-go.  ITA that some routines can be very very helpful because they allow you to put that part of your life on autopilot, which leaves you more brain cells free to manage all the rest of the shit.  So if you lean into that and figure out where else you can simplify your life that way, that can also help with the stress levels, because you've simply got more headspace to focus on everything else.

That extreme-routine-ness may also be part of why October tends to be particularly difficult.  I know when my own routines get messed up, I feel somewhat out of sorts -- it's almost like I rely on those routines to keep myself in line, and when life interferes with those routines, all bets are off, because if you actually make me think about whether I want oatmeal or pumpkin praline french toast and bacon for breakfast, I'm choosing the bad-for-me option every time (or using up some of my limited willpower by consciously turning that down, which then leaves me more susceptible to the next splurgey option).  I don't have a solution for that (just ask my post-Covid waistline), but it might be helpful to at least pay attention to how you routines actually benefit you, and how your feelings and behavior change during times when you get pulled away from them for one way or another.  Maybe one thing you can do is find other routines that you can implement even when you're out of your normal schedule; if you're traveling, you can't make your own oatmeal, but if you have a habit of going for a walk or meditating or whatever every afternoon, you can still do that.  Again, I'm not exactly the poster child for success here, but it's something to mull over.  I mean, if you have a superpower, why not use it as much as you can, right?* 

Re: kids:  sure, you're not new to parenting.  But you're relatively new to parenting two vs. 1.  And you're still new to parenting these specific kids and figuring out how to adjust your life to their needs (e.g., their need for routines -- we had one of those, too, so again, I know exactly what you're talking about).  And if your wife is not a "routine" person, then this phase might be particularly difficult for her -- and that difficulty is exacerbated because she is the one home with the kids two days a week.  So a little patience and kindness with yourselves is very much warranted as you crawl your way through figuring everything out. 

Re: your wife's spending: I very much suspect you're on to something with linking it to the boredom of being at home with the kids.  Maybe you can't fix that right away (BTDT, so I know how the daycare carousel goes), but you can develop a plan to work toward something better -- and sometimes, just knowing you are executing a plan to change things can make the present more tolerable.  There are very specific, discrete steps you'd need to take, in series, to change this -- you laid them out above.  So start on the first one:  get on a list for 4- or 5-day daycare, or look around for other options with openings, or even look for an au pair or mother's helper who can cover those two days (or even one to start).  Once you have more kid care coverage, then your wife can start to focus on what she wants to do with that extra time and what her options are.  Maybe there's a path at her current job, maybe it requires a job change, maybe she wants to change careers, or maybe she just uses the extra time for a side hustle or personal projects she's interested in.  The point is that if she's spending from boredom and unhappiness, the money is just the symptom.  You don't want your wife to spend the next several years bored and unhappy, so talk to her and take what steps you can now to work toward something that suits her better. 

On how to execute a lumpy budget:  we just opened a money market account for those expenses.  We figured out how much we wanted to save each year for vacations, car repair/replacement, and that kind of thing, divided that by 12, and then did a separate automatic deposit every month to that account.  Then when we spent that money, we just wrote a check from that account.  In the modern world, where we have miraculous things like online banking, you can have one CC that you use only for those kinds of expenses, and you can tie that CC to the money market fund so the bills are automatically paid from the "right" account without you having to use any of your remaining brain cells making sure that happens. 


*At least if it's a useful superpower like yours.  My superpower is apparently drunk navigation across unfamiliar cities (walking, not driving!).  Good superpower to have in a pinch, not one I especially want to practice particularly often. 

Dee18

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2284
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2022, 12:05:46 PM »
The number one thing that helped cut spending on stuff was the "30 day list."  For anything except food if someone in the family wanted to buy something, it was written on the 30 day list on the fridge. This included things my then young daughter (about 5 years old) wanted. It was amazing how often the item lost its luster in 30 days, or was no longer available.  I tended to be tempted by "deals," and the list got me to quit buying things just because they were on sale.  As for the food budget, planning and prepping ahead is the key, but not easy when juggling jobs and young children.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 06:30:15 PM by Dee18 »

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7021
  • Location: BC
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2022, 04:13:10 PM »
The only way I was able to do it was to start using cash for 100% of my discretionary spending.

I would pay the essentials and set up budgeting for every 2 weeks to match my paychek, but groceries, clothing, lunches, gifts (when you have kids you know about those party invites), school fees, etc were cash.

I used an envelope system for 3-6 months.  Put set amount in one of 5 envelopes every 2 weeks.   extra cash can roll over.  I could steal from one to pay another.  Things that were mandatory non-cash only purchases I would move out that $$ from the envelope and put it into the "return" for the next cycle.

CASH  because I had to put things back if I did not have the money and that was embarrassing, so I started to budget the shopping better.

The only other way is "zero spend" which, quite frankly, is easier than setting up a "lean moderate" budget for more than a month.

Oh - I also stopped getting flyers delivered to my home and shut off ads or paid promotionals / tv etc.

onward19

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: Why is moderation so damn hard?
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2022, 08:35:25 PM »

This was probably answered before, but in regards to going through paper towels thanks to a messy baby...........definitely get yourself a giant stack of dishcloths/washcloths. Kohls and JCP and the like have these super cheap sets of dishcloths AND washcloths that they often will put on sale for super cheap.
 When DS was a baby and toddler I just bought a couple extra sets of dishcloths. So in the morning I'd pull out a dishcloth that I used for the dishes, wiping down counters etc. And in the morning I'd pull out a SECOND one and get it damp, and then use that to clean him up after a meal. If it was super dirty, in to the kitchen laundry basket it went and I got a clean one at lunch time. And so forth. Or I'd grab a third one to wipe down the tray.
  So yes, it means you do more laundry, but it's not hard and you do lots of laundry with little kids anyway.
 When DS got to be a little older, I bought some of those multi-sets of washcloths from above mentioned places for cheap on sale. One color became his bathroom washcloths (since he'd graduated from baby-size cloths) and one color became his table cleaning up the face cloths. That way when sorting laundry he would always end up with a clean stack no matter where it was needed.
 I highly recommend over paper towels or baby wipes. Ignoring the cost savings, a real cotton cloth is much more sturdy and handles the mess a lot better. :)
  Now with DD we are just starting the messy eating baby stage, and I'm finding myself reaching for those cloths that DS graduated from. So they're now on their second kid! :)

Here's the washcloth product I meant, although when I bought them they were only $3: Home Expressions 6pc Washcloth Set  https://www.jcpenney.com/p/home-expressions-6pc-washcloth-set/ppr5008124249?pTmplType=regular&catId=SearchResults&searchTerm=Home+Expressions+6pc+Washcloth+Set&productGridView=medium&urlState=brand%3Dhome%2Bexpressions%26product_type%3Dbath%2Btowels&badge=onlyatjcp%7Ccollection