Author Topic: Why do we bash on trucks?  (Read 36548 times)

waffle

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Why do we bash on trucks?
« on: August 13, 2015, 08:13:48 AM »
This is inspired by the conversations from the "What will replace trucks as the next dumb purchase" thread, but I thought it deserved its own.

I know that in 90%+ of cases a truck doesn't make financial sense to own. Its a convenience item that costs more money that its worth for most people. What I don't get though is why trucks get singled out so much. How many of us spent way more than we needed to on a house because we convinced ourselves that we needed the space when we really don't? How many of us paid thousands more than we needed to on education that didn't provide any substantially better career prospects than the school that cost half as much?

Maybe its because a truck is a depreciating asset, but it seems that 30k (more with other expenses) once every 10 years or so on a truck (while probably face punch worthy) is not that far off from spending an extra 100k on a house that is bigger or fancier than you really need.

forummm

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2015, 08:17:03 AM »
People bash expensive houses too. But I agree that it's done less than with trucks. Perhaps because MMM has had expensive houses, he hasn't written about the topic as much. You do usually get your money back with an expensive house, but you do have much higher carrying costs as well.

slugline

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2015, 08:27:28 AM »
Too much house when unneeded is considered facepunch-worthy too.

The only difference I see is that sometimes the desire to not overpay for housing conflicts with the desire to minimize transportation costs because employment centers with high-paying jobs also tend to be immediately surrounded by high-price residential real estate.

Cpa Cat

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2015, 08:37:11 AM »
When I worked at an accounting firm, 80% of the vehicles were giant trucks and giant SUVs. The men all had the biggest baddest trucks you could buy. The women all had the biggest, baddest SUV's (the new minivan) you could buy, to keep their kids safe. Most commuted 30 mins- 1 hour. My favorites were the truck-SUV mixes - trucks that can seat as many people as an SUV, in comfort and style.

I think it gets bashed because it's just so VISIBLE.

Why did all these accountants need such enormous vehicles? Did they store their stacks of precious ten-key calculators in the back?

I once had someone try to justify it to me by telling me he came to work in a snow storm and used his massive manly truck to pull people out of ditches because no one else was at work. My only answer to this was, "Why were you at work?"

Left

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2015, 08:47:12 AM »
because the bashers can't see the point in buying something so expensive that they can't resell for more? :D

to me, I don't care. You can't "get" more out of having a pet/baby either but it doesn't keep people from buying pets or kids.

before someone bashes trucks, I want to see them bash having pets/babies as a lifestyle choice if they think having trucks are bad.

My dislike of trucks/suvs are that large vehicles more often than not also have "large" drivers which translates to lazy people who park near the "entrance" where other cars crowd around too. I park on the periphery so I don't get my car dinged... And that's as much "my" choice as it is the large truck driver's choice to park in the compact car spaces, and that's why I dislike trucks/suvs. Yes, I know small car drivers can ding my car, but they are smaller so less likely that someone can get out of the car without "squeezing" in. If they can open the door and get in/out without sucking in their stomach or hitting the other car, then the parking space is fine, if they can't then they need to move away from other cars.

edit: yes, I am stereotypying truck drivers to be fat... I'm in the midwest, so even the bicycle riders are "fat" too by majority rule (probably). But I see more in large vehicles simply because they can't get in and out of low to the ground, smaller cars. So while skinny guys can drive either cars/trucks, non-skinny guys tend to drive larger trucks. Probably a false statement, since I made it from my own bias but you asked a personal question so I can be as biased as I want to be

edit: and yes, I consider myself "fat" too and trying to work on it :D so I'm not hating on fat people in general, just an observation of why I dislike trucks more than cars, because I don't like having my doors dinged from people who cant get in and out of their cars and won't walk an extra 200 feet.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 08:59:47 AM by eyem »

marcela

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2015, 09:56:02 AM »
The trucks are a very visible symbol of spending and have high operating costs when you factor in lower gas mileage, higher insurance rates and maintenance. Also most people buy a house planning on having it for longer than they would a truck and it is harder to sell. Most people aren't upgrading their house every 4-5 years.

The other big reason I'm guessing has to do with the fact that I imagine many people on the forum find themselves in the position of having those over-priced big homes and don't want to draw attention to the fact :) I admit we live in an apartment that is much bigger than we need and could easily find a cheaper place that only had 1 bedroom/ a smaller kitchen, no back porch. However when we weighed the options, having a larger nicer space and the joy it would bring us in being able to entertain (and get away from each other at times) was worth it. I think most people on here would agree and that why we pick on trucks.

DeltaBond

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2015, 09:57:51 AM »
I'm not sure you can say 80% of truck purchases have no point... how can you possibly know a percentage?... but I think they get bashed on here because you have a lot of cyclists on here and people focused on cheaper smaller vehicles.  They probably get bashed outside of here because they are very visible... But just because there aren't scratches and mud all over them doesn't mean the driver didn't have a reason to get one.  Hauling a boat can be tough with a lighter vehicle, and you don't go off road or get scratched up doing that.  I know a few truck owners who have been in wrecks and feel safer with more weight in a vehicle. 

There are still a lot of people, even on here, who don't DIY anything, so they don't see the need for a truck.  Even with less gas mileage and a payment, if you're using your truck to do things, you can very easily pay less in life just thanks to the cheaper costs of those DIY projects.  Insurance on his trucks combined is way less than on my 2014 Honda Accord.

I don't drive a truck, but my husband does and we use that truck... in fact, he has two.  They are both cheaper in the cost per mile than a new prius, believe it or not.  One is a 1988 and the other is a 2000.  We do live in an area that has "share the road" signs, so cyclists probably hate us, but THEY have to share the road, too.  Sad we don't have enough bike lanes, but roads are roads.

Also... if people are hating on trucks because of the cost... take a look at the costs of the new cars, too, wow.

waffle

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2015, 10:02:49 AM »
People bash expensive houses too. But I agree that it's done less than with trucks. Perhaps because MMM has had expensive houses, he hasn't written about the topic as much. You do usually get your money back with an expensive house, but you do have much higher carrying costs as well.
By my calculations a 175k vs a 275k house at 3.5% mortgage would cost you 110k more over the course of 10 years in interest and lost investment earnings assuming you earn 6% on your investments.
Over the course of a decade a 30-40k truck vs a 10-15k car will certainly cost more money, but I don't think its as bad as people make it out to be. Especially if you get one of the newer more fuel efficient trucks.

boarder42

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2015, 10:09:30 AM »
People bash expensive houses too. But I agree that it's done less than with trucks. Perhaps because MMM has had expensive houses, he hasn't written about the topic as much. You do usually get your money back with an expensive house, but you do have much higher carrying costs as well.
By my calculations a 175k vs a 275k house at 3.5% mortgage would cost you 110k more over the course of 10 years in interest and lost investment earnings assuming you earn 6% on your investments.
Over the course of a decade a 30-40k truck vs a 10-15k car will certainly cost more money, but I don't think its as bad as people make it out to be. Especially if you get one of the newer more fuel efficient trucks.

you also spend how many hours of your life in your truck vs how many hours in your house.  exponential value difference there as well. 

spending a lot on cars has very few justifications.   unless you're living in it ... then props to you on the awesome truck camper conversion. 

spending a lot on a house has many more justifications. 

unless you're spending 8+ hours a day in your car then i'd say you have crazy other antimustacian problems. 

lets do the math based on time used
say a 1 hour per day commute in a 30k car
vs a 12 hour day using your 300k house. 

im getting 12x the use fore 10x the price.  and its not a depreciating asset.  and i have to live somewhere so based on your 100k house price difference.  i'm getting 36x the use for 3x the price. 

waffle

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2015, 10:13:11 AM »
I used to have a Ram 1500 diesel truck. I often wish I still had it, but the base cost (payments) was too much to justify at the time. It could easily hit 30 mpg on the highway, had 4 wheel drive, could carry 6 people, the insurance cost was actually the same as the Rav4 I replaced it with, and it was great for hauling stuff. If I had been more financially stable before buying it (had student loans paid off + ample savings) then I would probably still have it. I hope to get another one someday.

Kaspian

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2015, 10:16:35 AM »
I know that in 90%+ of cases a truck doesn't make financial sense to own. Its a convenience item that costs more money that its worth for most people.

^^ That is exactly why they get bashed so much.  That and they're 3-ton beasts which cost $30K, usually carry just one person, and shoot CO2 all over the place.  Hey, if "90%+ of cases" are people driving road-hogging, giant unnecessary pollution machines around, we should be able to bash them.  ...Making fun isn't what's destroying the planet.

Sam E

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2015, 10:46:51 AM »
Especially if you get one of the newer more fuel efficient trucks.

That's quite a relative thing. Fuel efficient "for a truck" is hardly fuel efficient. My boss bought a brand new truck last year and was bragging about how he got "over 20mpg" on the highway. My truck driving coworkers were all astonished at how fuel efficient his truck was, meanwhile I'm just mentally comparing it to my Corolla's 50mpg on the highway and imagining all the money he's spending driving that thing 40 miles to work...

bobechs

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2015, 10:52:37 AM »

before someone bashes trucks, I want to see them bash having pets/babies as a lifestyle choice if they think having trucks are bad.


Be careful what you wish for:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/owning-pets-are-anti-mustachian/

DeltaBond

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2015, 11:01:00 AM »
Especially if you get one of the newer more fuel efficient trucks.

That's quite a relative thing. Fuel efficient "for a truck" is hardly fuel efficient. My boss bought a brand new truck last year and was bragging about how he got "over 20mpg" on the highway. My truck driving coworkers were all astonished at how fuel efficient his truck was, meanwhile I'm just mentally comparing it to my Corolla's 50mpg on the highway and imagining all the money he's spending driving that thing 40 miles to work...

Fuel mileage isn't everything, see my above post.  Not all trucks are created equal, as well.

Kaspian

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2015, 11:18:33 AM »
Especially if you get one of the newer more fuel efficient trucks.

That's quite a relative thing. Fuel efficient "for a truck" is hardly fuel efficient. My boss bought a brand new truck last year and was bragging about how he got "over 20mpg" on the highway. My truck driving coworkers were all astonished at how fuel efficient his truck was, meanwhile I'm just mentally comparing it to my Corolla's 50mpg on the highway and imagining all the money he's spending driving that thing 40 miles to work...

Fuel mileage isn't everything, see my above post.  Not all trucks are created equal, as well.


"Fuel efficiency"?!  Nothing is efficient in driving a 3-ton machine around with only one passenger and an empty hold.  Nothing.  And that's how I see 99.5% of trucks these days.  Carrying 40 times your weight around needlessly is the same as going to a restaurant, ordering 40 meals, eating one, and throwing the rest in the garbage.  Why are you paying to haul all that extra weight around?

dramaman

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2015, 11:42:06 AM »
Part of it is likely because trucks were originally designed for a business purpose - hauling things - and instead has now become a status symbol in which way too many people simply use them as a fancy commuting vehicle, providing no benefit whatsoever over a cheaper, more fuel efficient, practice car. Its the pure stupidity of it.

boarder42

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2015, 11:47:06 AM »
truck to pet comparison yeah that makes sense

truck to baby comparison is pretty dumb.  seeing as i've never seen a truck carry on the existance of human life -  But i guess what you do with your truck in your garage is your business.

daverobev

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2015, 11:51:44 AM »
Because most people driving a truck are towing nothing, hauling nothing, and pissing a declining resource out the back in order to do so.

I'm sure it's all fuel cost related - people in the UK only have a truck if they need one because the cost of fuel is so much higher than the US and Canada. So expensive that nearly all commercial vehicles are diesel. If fuel was 40p/litre I'm sure people would buy bigger vehicles.

You're basically driving a brick. If you're a farmer, go for it. There's nothing wrong with any individual going, oh, I love this big V8, it puts a smile on my face. The problem is when everyone does it, we're all fucked (no, really - greenwashing aside - we are driving from A-B and back B-A every day - hauling one person plus hundreds of kilograms of metal - 5 days a week - even doing this in a Prius is, climate wise, stupid).

I WANT AN SUV IT MAKES ME FEEL SAFE yeah but because everyone has one it cancels out (plus the roll over risk, plus people NOT driving an SUV are at more danger).

With a McMansion in reasonable climates - who cares. Somewhere you need to heat from -30? Madness - natural gas going up - but again, a 1000 sq ft house vs 1500 isn't going to save the world, we need ecohousing that basically heats itself.

I guess the guy driving the truck or living in the McMansion is just an easy deflection of our own guilt - anger at myself AND our race for being so very very stupid. We are entirely wrongheaded - we value "hard work" but it's complete bullshit - you clean toilets, on your hands and knees, and get paid terrible; you write a couple of programs or poke at networks or whatever and you get paid 3-4-5 x as much. If you're mustachian smart you can give up work in 10 years or less.

Life is not fair, it is so so so unfair it hurts BUT of course you get growth through hardship. But we're at this enlightened age where people have time to think about this stuff. People like me, who have it really easy, questioning what it's all about.

90% of privately owned trucks could be replaced with Priuses. Probably 40+% of commercial trucks would be better off being a van. We should nearly all live within 5 minutes of our office!

Giro

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2015, 11:54:34 AM »
If we are going to bring the environment and carbon emissions into the discussion, then jet planes need to be brought up.  We bag on trucks but justify vacations.  makes no sense to me.
There's nothing wrong with driving a truck if that's what you want.  We have a truck and a sports car that gets about 14mpg.  But, I'm not a huge fan of riding in airplanes so I think I'm no worse on the environment than someone who flies several times a year.



tvan

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2015, 12:22:46 PM »

I know that in 90%+ of cases a truck doesn't make financial sense to own. Its a convenience item that costs more money that its worth for most people.

^^ That is exactly why they get bashed so much.  That and they're 3-ton beasts which cost $30K, usually carry just one person, and shoot CO2 all over the place.  Hey, if "90%+ of cases" are people driving road-hogging, giant unnecessary pollution machines around, we should be able to bash them.  ...Making fun isn't what's destroying the planet.

What does weight and size have a thing to do with personal finance?

If the Ford F-150 was cheaper and got 50 mpg everyone on this forum would be driving them.

tvan

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2015, 12:24:48 PM »

DeltaBond

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2015, 12:29:35 PM »
True, electric is very dependent on which state you're in and how your state gets its power.  My state has so many rivers, it uses all hydroelectric power.  But if environment is all people are concerned about, the Prius is far from the greenest vehicle, just sayin.  The 70s Scout is the greenest vehicle, or one of those 70s suburban things, its surprising once you stop looking at a small part of the bigger picture... its the entire life of a vehicle, how long parts last, cost of making and discarding all those parts, to include batteries, and fuel mileage is only part of the cost of owning a vehicle.

If you just need something to hate, and a jerk was driving the truck, or whatever vehicle, that you felt insulted you on the road... well, haters gonna hate, but you won't win a 'trucks suck' argument with a DIYer.

sixup

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2015, 12:39:43 PM »
Big trucks are simply a status symbol screaming for attention.

There is no other reason to have a Ford F-150 raptor or god-forbid any lifted truck/SUV*.


* lifted truck: Maybe if you're a farmer or something. Even then it would ideally be smaller in size to have less chance of getting stuck. I know many of the massive trucks that off-road here end up needing to be rescued by the smaller non-monster trucks in muddy situations.

waffle

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2015, 12:50:02 PM »

I know that in 90%+ of cases a truck doesn't make financial sense to own. Its a convenience item that costs more money that its worth for most people.

^^ That is exactly why they get bashed so much.  That and they're 3-ton beasts which cost $30K, usually carry just one person, and shoot CO2 all over the place.  Hey, if "90%+ of cases" are people driving road-hogging, giant unnecessary pollution machines around, we should be able to bash them.  ...Making fun isn't what's destroying the planet.

What does weight and size have a thing to do with personal finance?

If the Ford F-150 was cheaper and got 50 mpg everyone on this forum would be driving them.
The ram 1500 I wrote about earlier got better mileage than the rav4 I have now and was over twice the weight. If technology is applied equally to cars and trucks then smaller cars should always be more efficient, but that doesn't mean trucks will always be the gas guzzlers of the past.

I was not joking about easily getting over 30mpg.
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/09/hypermiling-ram-1500-ecodiesel-38-mpg/

Jacob F

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2015, 01:02:41 PM »
There are still a lot of people, even on here, who don't DIY anything, so they don't see the need for a truck.  Even with less gas mileage and a payment, if you're using your truck to do things, you can very easily pay less in life just thanks to the cheaper costs of those DIY projects.  Insurance on his trucks combined is way less than on my 2014 Honda Accord.

I don't drive a truck, but my husband does and we use that truck... in fact, he has two.  They are both cheaper in the cost per mile than a new prius, believe it or not.  One is a 1988 and the other is a 2000.  We do live in an area that has "share the road" signs, so cyclists probably hate us, but THEY have to share the road, too.  Sad we don't have enough bike lanes, but roads are roads.

Also... if people are hating on trucks because of the cost... take a look at the costs of the new cars, too, wow.
Comparing apples to apples will help here...

a) Insurance on two trucks is less than on your new 2014 honda accord? That's probably because of collision coverage, which is an electable option. Of course, collision coverage costs are cheap on old vehicles because they don't have a high residual value. If you want to be honest, you need to compare his insurance costs for trucks to two equally old cars (or Minivans) at the same mileage. Or compare your Honda to an all new Ford F-150. I bet you will have to revise your statement!

b) Roads are roads and are thus made for all, not only your trucks. You are not the king of the road just because you can kill everyone in the blink of an eye. On the road, just as in real life, you need to take precaution and express carefulness.

c)The costs of new cars compared to new trucks are still in favor of cars. Unless you buy an aston martin.

On a sidenote, I'd love to put penalty tax on trucks (and partly SUVs) for several things:
- Impact on other people on the road (a.k.a. negative external effects): Due to the size and weight of the vehicles, other people are in more danger just because people want to drive these silly vehicles
- Bigger vehicles clog up public parking and roads
- Through open truckbeds, a lot of load / garbage ends on or besides highways because people don't even care to secure their load properly. This creates environmental pollution.
- increase average IQ by taxing stupidity (sorry couldn't resist) :D MOD NOTE: joking or not, you just insulted forum members who do choose to own a truck. Please keep in mind our forum rules. Thanks.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 01:44:20 PM by swick »

Stachetastic

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2015, 01:10:05 PM »
I will step up and admit to owning a large truck. And it is perhaps even more facepunch-worthy that it is our third vehicle. But, it's a 2001 chevy that was purchased for 3k cash and is used frequently for our rentals, hauling the $900 pop up camper/firewood/recycling/craigslist finds, etc. Our daily drivers are a Matrix and a Corolla, both paid for. Yes the truck burns emissions and gets really shitty gas mileage. It is not the BEST way to optimize our budget, but it fits our needs. We justify it by cutting back in so many other areas--no cable, living in a smallish house in a very LCOL area, rarely eating out, exclusively shopping at thrift stores. The truck is actually beat to hell, so far from a status symbol for us. But it is a work truck, and it fills a need for our household, so it stays.

DeltaBond

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2015, 01:10:43 PM »
There are still a lot of people, even on here, who don't DIY anything, so they don't see the need for a truck.  Even with less gas mileage and a payment, if you're using your truck to do things, you can very easily pay less in life just thanks to the cheaper costs of those DIY projects.  Insurance on his trucks combined is way less than on my 2014 Honda Accord.

I don't drive a truck, but my husband does and we use that truck... in fact, he has two.  They are both cheaper in the cost per mile than a new prius, believe it or not.  One is a 1988 and the other is a 2000.  We do live in an area that has "share the road" signs, so cyclists probably hate us, but THEY have to share the road, too.  Sad we don't have enough bike lanes, but roads are roads.

Also... if people are hating on trucks because of the cost... take a look at the costs of the new cars, too, wow.
Comparing apples to apples will help here...

a) Insurance on two trucks is less than on your new 2014 honda accord? That's probably because of collision coverage, which is an electable option. Of course, collision coverage costs are cheap on old vehicles because they don't have a high residual value. If you want to be honest, you need to compare his insurance costs for trucks to two equally old cars (or Minivans) at the same mileage. Or compare your Honda to an all new Ford F-150. I bet you will have to revise your statement!

b) Roads are roads and are thus made for all, not only your trucks. You are not the king of the road just because you can kill everyone in the blink of an eye. On the road, just as in real life, you need to take precaution and express carefulness.

c)The costs of new cars compared to new trucks are still in favor of cars. Unless you buy an aston martin.

On a sidenote, I'd love to put penalty tax on trucks (and partly SUVs) for several things:
- Impact on other people on the road (a.k.a. negative external effects): Due to the size and weight of the vehicles, other people are in more danger just because people want to drive these silly vehicles
- Bigger vehicles clog up public parking and roads
- Through open truckbeds, a lot of load / garbage ends on or besides highways because people don't even care to secure their load properly. This creates environmental pollution.
- increase average IQ by taxing stupidity (sorry couldn't resist) :D

LOL  Jacob, roads are roads meaning we are ALL sharing these roads.  I'm noticing the people who dislike trucks aren't really being reasonable towards the posts here about what truck ownership is really like.  We're trying to explain that it isn't the way you're assuming.  Like I said, if you want to hate them, have at it, but you aren't going to win an argument with a DIYer truck owner, sorry.  You finish it with talking about stupidity... are you really trying to convince us, or make the animosity worse?

cborders

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2015, 01:13:28 PM »

What does weight and size have a thing to do with personal finance?


Bigger, heavier vehicles cost more to own and maintain. Larger vehicles can tow larger accessories which increases behavioral risks such as buying boats, RVs, etc.

Quote
If the Ford F-150 was cheaper and got 50 mpg everyone on this forum would be driving them.

Typically fuel costs account for <10% of the total cost of vehicle ownership, so it's doubtful that many here would be driving F150's if fuel economy improved.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 01:18:13 PM by cborders »

tvan

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Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2015, 01:18:46 PM »

What does weight and size have a thing to do with personal finance?


Bigger, heavier vehicles cost more to own and maintain. Larger vehicles can tow larger accessories which increases behavioral risks such as buying boats, RVs, etc.

Quote
If the Ford F-150 was cheaper and got 50 mpg everyone on this forum would be driving them.

Typically fuel costs account for <10% of the total cost of vehicle ownership, so it's doubtful that many here would be driving F150's if fuel economy improved.

You didn't read the keywords in my post.

tvan

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2015, 01:20:05 PM »
Bigger cars are also safer.

You also don't have any clue whether that person on the road is already RE.  And if they are, and you are not, it goes without saying...

bacchi

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2015, 01:23:50 PM »
roads are roads meaning we are ALL sharing these roads.

True but trucks require more sharing from others. Heavier vehicles do more wear and tear on a road than, say, a bicycle or Yaris. The additional gas tax that truck drivers pay for their less efficient motors doesn't cover that, either.

Quote
but you aren't going to win an argument with a DIYer truck owner

If you're truly a heavy user of your truck then you probably have a legitimate need for it. Most people don't, however.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/30/how-americas-truck-the-ford-f-150-became-a-plaything-for-the-rich/

Quote from: WaPo
So far this year, about 50 percent of sales of the F-150 have been its high-end editions, including the Lariat, Platinum and King Ranch editions.

Tell me that's not for status.

boarder42

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2015, 01:24:13 PM »

I know that in 90%+ of cases a truck doesn't make financial sense to own. Its a convenience item that costs more money that its worth for most people.

^^ That is exactly why they get bashed so much.  That and they're 3-ton beasts which cost $30K, usually carry just one person, and shoot CO2 all over the place.  Hey, if "90%+ of cases" are people driving road-hogging, giant unnecessary pollution machines around, we should be able to bash them.  ...Making fun isn't what's destroying the planet.

What does weight and size have a thing to do with personal finance?

If the Ford F-150 was cheaper and got 50 mpg everyone on this forum would be driving them.

weight and size have a direct affect on your health as a human being ... the more overweight and larger you are the more likely you are to get diseases which cost money.. money is personal finance.

so to sum it up

weight = health costs = money = personal finance.

shotgunwilly

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2015, 01:53:13 PM »
truck to pet comparison yeah that makes sense

truck to baby comparison is pretty dumb.  seeing as i've never seen a truck carry on the existance of human life -  But i guess what you do with your truck in your garage is your business.

Why? Couldn't it be argued that adding a human life to this world is possibly as damaging to earth as driving a truck? (If you can't possibly imagine why, please... think a little deeper.)  I agree with the poster that said it's a lifestyle choice.  Why do people drive trucks?  Either because they make a mistake, or they love them and want to.  Why do people have kids?  Either because they make a mistake, or they love them and want to.  And don't fucking tell me you have kids so they can someday save the world or to "carry on the existence of human life." 

boarder42

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2015, 02:05:16 PM »
truck to pet comparison yeah that makes sense

truck to baby comparison is pretty dumb.  seeing as i've never seen a truck carry on the existance of human life -  But i guess what you do with your truck in your garage is your business.

Why? Couldn't it be argued that adding a human life to this world is possibly as damaging to earth as driving a truck? (If you can't possibly imagine why, please... think a little deeper.)  I agree with the poster that said it's a lifestyle choice.  Why do people drive trucks?  Either because they make a mistake, or they love them and want to.  Why do people have kids?  Either because they make a mistake, or they love them and want to.  And don't fucking tell me you have kids so they can someday save the world or to "carry on the existence of human life."

fact

all humans decide to copulate with trucks = 0 humans at somepoint
humans decide to copulate with eachother = humans still survive


shotgunwilly

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2015, 02:08:58 PM »
truck to pet comparison yeah that makes sense

truck to baby comparison is pretty dumb.  seeing as i've never seen a truck carry on the existance of human life -  But i guess what you do with your truck in your garage is your business.

Why? Couldn't it be argued that adding a human life to this world is possibly as damaging to earth as driving a truck? (If you can't possibly imagine why, please... think a little deeper.)  I agree with the poster that said it's a lifestyle choice.  Why do people drive trucks?  Either because they make a mistake, or they love them and want to.  Why do people have kids?  Either because they make a mistake, or they love them and want to.  And don't fucking tell me you have kids so they can someday save the world or to "carry on the existence of human life."

fact

all humans decide to copulate with trucks = 0 humans at somepoint
humans decide to copulate with eachother = humans still survive

Great counter. You win. :|

Cpa Cat

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2015, 02:58:51 PM »
to me, I don't care. You can't "get" more out of having a pet/baby either but it doesn't keep people from buying pets or kids.

before someone bashes trucks, I want to see them bash having pets/babies as a lifestyle choice if they think having trucks are bad.

But people don't just own a sensible truck to fulfill a function. It's always the biggest, most useless trucks that are the best sellers. You know, the ones that have sacrificed the length of the bed so that they can comfortably sit 8 people. The ones that have the biggest tires and hydraulics. My favorites are the (usually old) men who drive those pristine trucks that have extra wheels in the back to support all of the stuff that they never haul in their bed.

It's like someone telling you that they really love cats... and then when you go to their house, they have 16 cats and all of their decor is cat related. Then they tell you that their cats are all pregnant because they can't afford to spay them.

Or people who tell you that they love kids... and then when you go to their house, they have 16 kids and rely on a reality TV show to feed them.

The difference is that usually, when people say they love cats or kids, they only have a couple of cats or kids and nothing is excessive. Excess is the exception.

For trucks, excess (in the form of the biggest, most useless trucks imaginable) is the norm. Using a truck for function  is the exception. In the end, most trucks are just another iPhone with the most expensive data plan rolling down the road.


jeromedawg

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2015, 03:12:22 PM »
Trucks are awesome! But only when my friends [who have one] let me borrow them to transport furniture, appliances, and other large items...! Or better yet, when my friends with trucks offer to help me get all that stuff!

waffle

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2015, 03:43:31 PM »
to me, I don't care. You can't "get" more out of having a pet/baby either but it doesn't keep people from buying pets or kids.

before someone bashes trucks, I want to see them bash having pets/babies as a lifestyle choice if they think having trucks are bad.

My favorites are the (usually old) men who drive those pristine trucks that have extra wheels in the back to support all of the stuff that they never haul in their bed.


I've never met anyone who buys a dually that wont actually use it for heavy duty uses. They probably bought it to haul a 5th wheel trailer for traveling or a gooseneck stock trailer if they are ranchers. Its just not that fun to drive a dually around like a normal truck so most people aren't going to buy them for commuters or pleasure vehicles...

Edit: Also they tend to stay pristine because they are probably just doing a lot of highway driving and not driving around town. People don't take their dually mudding. They are used more like a semi truck. Long/heavy hauls, so these I would probably question a persons decision to buy one of these the least.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 03:49:18 PM by waffle »

Fuman

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2015, 03:54:57 PM »
I've got a 2014 RAM1500 with a shell.  I'm also RE.

I've used it a TON this summer.  I've been to or through 21 states since March and I've put 16,000 trouble free miles on it during that time.  I haul the bike, the dog and the camping gear.  Sleeping for two in the back on a memory foam mattress is very comfy.  The truck is very safe and the ride is the most comfortable of any vehicle I've ever owned - even after driving 12 hrs per day. 

Soon it will be towing my refurbished travel-trailer and visiting all the national parks in the U.S.  I love the fucking thing!

If you don't like trucks then don't buy one.  If you are comfortable hauling your bicycles, dog, camping gear and also sleeping in your Prius, then knock yourself out.  I won't judge you for that.

daverobev

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2015, 04:09:01 PM »
I've got a 2014 RAM1500 with a shell.  I'm also RE.

I've used it a TON this summer.  I've been to or through 21 states since March and I've put 16,000 trouble free miles on it during that time.  I haul the bike, the dog and the camping gear.  Sleeping for two in the back on a memory foam mattress is very comfy.  The truck is very safe and the ride is the most comfortable of any vehicle I've ever owned - even after driving 12 hrs per day. 

Soon it will be towing my refurbished travel-trailer and visiting all the national parks in the U.S.  I love the fucking thing!

If you don't like trucks then don't buy one.  If you are comfortable hauling your bicycles, dog, camping gear and also sleeping in your Prius, then knock yourself out.  I won't judge you for that.

MOST trucks are not used like this, though.

The post where someone had a truck as a third vehicle - makes perfect sense!

Sleeping in the back - ok, cool, not the most efficient (minivan might be better, but whatever).

Commuting with nothing in the bed? IT'S STUPID.

Also, flying is similarly bad. I do a transatlantic flight pretty much every year and I feel shitty about it because it basically negates all the commuting I don't do.

People getting defensive - I get it, nobody likes criticism. I'm a hypocrite - used to be vegetarian, organic, train and bike to work... I buy new and secondhand gadgets, I now buy cheap food because organic is so expensive in Canada, I own a Crown Vic which I love (though it does less than 5k km a year).

But what can you do. You can accept you're a really lucky fucker vs every metric, and try not to wreck the planet. Frugality and environmentalism go hand in hand.

Fuman

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2015, 04:42:24 PM »
I've got a 2014 RAM1500 with a shell.  I'm also RE.

But what can you do. You can accept you're a really lucky fucker vs every metric, and try not to wreck the planet. Frugality and environmentalism go hand in hand.

I failed to mention - my last employer gave me (rather, I NEGOTIATED) a $1,000.00/month vehicle lease allowance.  However, their stipulation was that due to remote location, I HAD to get a 4WD truck.  I think they thought I'd get a normal lease but I then negotiated the HIGHEST LEASE PAYMENT that I possibly could from the dealer; $973.68/month!  HAHAHA.  I did that gig for almost two years, submitted for my reimbursement every month and then bought-out the lease right before I quit.  I got a 1/2 price truck!  Without that perk I never would have bought this thing.  It was an awesome mustachian way to make a very unmustachian purchase - but I LOVE that truck!

SwordGuy

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2015, 05:16:34 PM »
Ok, Do-It-Yourselfer (DIY) truck owners, time to argue...

In the last year, my wife and I have renovated two houses. 

Would owning a truck be more convenient than our car for this purpose?  Of course.  Duh.

But owning my own private plane and airport, with my own staff of 24-7 aircrew so I can take a long-distance vacation without standing in line at the public airport would be more convenient, too.   It would also be ludicrously expensive for the value it provided me.

So, let's explore the following questions:

(1) Do I need a truck to renovate the houses, given that I need lots of sheet rock, plywood, 2x4s, 2x6s, 4x4s, etc.?

No, I do not.   If I have a really big order of materials, I can have Lowe's deliver it for about $80.
I might need that once per house, or maybe twice per house if there's a lot of work.  I'll wager that, with major repairs on two different houses this last year, I'm doing way more DIY work than most folks.

That's $160 to $320 for deliveries.   A roof rack (1 time cost) is less than $200.  That's less than a single monthly truck payment. 

(2) What is the relative cost difference between that and my sedan with a roof-rack?

I can buy a new Ford sedan for less than $15,000.   The typical truck in the parking lot at work is in the $40,000 to $60,000 price range.   That's 3 to 4 times as expensive.   A stripped down Ford truck is $25,000, which is $10,000 more than the sedan.

So, if I buy 30+ houses and fix them up I'll break even on the cash price of both vehicles.   Oh, yeah.  Cash price.  But most people finance so maybe that's more like 40+ houses...

I'm ignoring the extra insurance costs, and the extra gas costs too.   

Sorry, as a very active DIYer, buying a new truck instead of a new sedan makes zero sense.


music lover

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2015, 05:21:50 PM »
unless you're spending 8+ hours a day in your car then i'd say you have crazy other antimustacian problems. 

lets do the math based on time used
say a 1 hour per day commute in a 30k car
vs a 12 hour day using your 300k house. 

im getting 12x the use fore 10x the price.  and its not a depreciating asset.  and i have to live somewhere so based on your 100k house price difference.  i'm getting 36x the use for 3x the price.

Try this:

Replace the 1 hour commute with 4-5 hours of bike riding. Over 12 years. 5 hours times 240 work days a year times 12 years = 15,000 hours. The equivalent car commute is about 3000 hours, a difference of 12,000 hours. 12,000 hours is equivalent to 6 years of full time work.

Would you work for 6 years for only $30k??

Cpa Cat

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2015, 05:23:53 PM »
to me, I don't care. You can't "get" more out of having a pet/baby either but it doesn't keep people from buying pets or kids.

before someone bashes trucks, I want to see them bash having pets/babies as a lifestyle choice if they think having trucks are bad.

My favorites are the (usually old) men who drive those pristine trucks that have extra wheels in the back to support all of the stuff that they never haul in their bed.


I've never met anyone who buys a dually that wont actually use it for heavy duty uses. They probably bought it to haul a 5th wheel trailer for traveling or a gooseneck stock trailer if they are ranchers. Its just not that fun to drive a dually around like a normal truck so most people aren't going to buy them for commuters or pleasure vehicles...

Edit: Also they tend to stay pristine because they are probably just doing a lot of highway driving and not driving around town. People don't take their dually mudding. They are used more like a semi truck. Long/heavy hauls, so these I would probably question a persons decision to buy one of these the least.

I admit, I've never heard the term "dually.' And I don't follow duallies home and spy on them, so maybe these dudes do use them for something.

Mostly I see them at Big Biscuit (a breakfast joint), though. Or the grocery store. Or driving on the highway with nothing attached to them.

I have honestly actually never seen a "dually" doing anything other than driving around with no load or sitting parking lots (also with no load).

But I live in Kansas - where trucks are King. I assume that they buy these things because they want to be a little bit different from all the other trucks. Or because they buy a lot of groceries and eat a ton of biscuits. I could go either way on that.

music lover

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2015, 05:25:25 PM »
I can buy a new Ford sedan for less than $15,000.   The typical truck in the parking lot at work is in the $40,000 to $60,000 price range.   That's 3 to 4 times as expensive.   A stripped down Ford truck is $25,000, which is $10,000 more than the sedan.

So, if I buy 30+ houses and fix them up I'll break even on the cash price of both vehicles.   Oh, yeah.  Cash price.  But most people finance so maybe that's more like 40+ houses...

I'm ignoring the extra insurance costs, and the extra gas costs too.   

Sorry, as a very active DIYer, buying a new truck instead of a new sedan makes zero sense.

Nice cherry picking. Why don't you compare a $15,000 base model truck to a $60,000 car?

The people who buy a $60k truck would buy a $60k car if not a truck. The people who would buy a $15k sedan would buy a $15k truck, not a $60k truck.

TheBuddha

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2015, 05:58:51 PM »
To me it's nothing to do with finances or environmental concerns.

People with big loud trucks are often aggressive, inconsiderate drivers. The trucks symbolize everything annoying about immature, testosterone-fueled men.  I see them all the time, I'm a truck driver (18-wheeler). They're some of the worst drivers out there.

Of course there are legitimate uses for trucks. And of course all pickup truck drivers are not assholes. But enough of them are to create a stereotype that sticks.

MoonShadow

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2015, 06:12:20 PM »
Mostly because it's a pretty common screwup.  A RV, ATV or basicly anything that can float on water and has an engine would also qualify; but none of those are as widely understood as the example of the shiny pickup truck that actually hauls something about twice a year.

boarder42

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2015, 07:23:24 PM »
I just find it hilarious some of you have a reason to make a thread and try to prove your truck ownership on a thread. Are you trying to convince us or yourself. There is one guy on this thread using his truck correctly and its basically how I said. As a camper.

I own a boat. I run a charity event around boats. I haven't made a thread to defend my boat.  It's something I do. It's not fit for this forum. If you have need to defend your life choices on a forum bent around making the smart financial ones(even though you justified it to yourself someway). You may have other problems in your life you should look into.

Wah wah I wanna a truck and no one around here likes em.

fb132

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2015, 07:27:05 PM »
This is inspired by the conversations from the "What will replace trucks as the next dumb purchase" thread, but I thought it deserved its own.

I know that in 90%+ of cases a truck doesn't make financial sense to own. Its a convenience item that costs more money that its worth for most people. What I don't get though is why trucks get singled out so much. How many of us spent way more than we needed to on a house because we convinced ourselves that we needed the space when we really don't? How many of us paid thousands more than we needed to on education that didn't provide any substantially better career prospects than the school that cost half as much?

Maybe its because a truck is a depreciating asset, but it seems that 30k (more with other expenses) once every 10 years or so on a truck (while probably face punch worthy) is not that far off from spending an extra 100k on a house that is bigger or fancier than you really need.
Because it's fun :D

music lover

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Re: Why do we bash on trucks?
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2015, 08:18:59 PM »
I just find it hilarious some of you have a reason to make a thread and try to prove your truck ownership on a thread. Are you trying to convince us or yourself. There is one guy on this thread using his truck correctly and its basically how I said. As a camper.

I own a boat. I run a charity event around boats. I haven't made a thread to defend my boat.  It's something I do. It's not fit for this forum. If you have need to defend your life choices on a forum bent around making the smart financial ones(even though you justified it to yourself someway). You may have other problems in your life you should look into.

Wah wah I wanna a truck and no one around here likes em.
Perhaps people wouldn't have to start a thread defending truck use if it wasn't for so many judgmental people making a lot of incorrect assumptions.

I pointed out in another thread that someone who drives low miles every year only has to use a truck a few times a year to get value from it. I used to drive a gas sucking Dodge Dakota but only spent $800 a year on fuel. Therefore, I only had to use it as a "truck" once or twice a month to make it worth owning, because the value of having the truck far exceeded the extra fuel costs. The rest of the time, it was empty and used as my daily commuter, and I would have been incorrectly judged by the majority of people here as wasteful and deserving of a facepunch.

My only other options were to own 2 vehicles, or to rent at a greater expense than the cost of simply owning a truck in the first place. Neither one of those options makes any sense at all.