Author Topic: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!  (Read 5734 times)

Askel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« on: November 09, 2021, 07:18:53 PM »
So I've ended up in a ~2200 ft^2 2 story house that has wood as the primary heat source.   There's a backup propane garage heater downstairs that can keep the downstairs comfy and the upstairs above 55F. 

The good news is there are wood stoves both upstairs and down. I can buy cut/split/delivered wood from my neighbor for $225/cord (up from $200/cord last year)  and have plenty of wood I can harvest on our property if I'd like to. 

The bad news is the wood stoves I have are home built by the previous owner, leaky as all hell, and therefore probably not very efficient. 

I'm currently shopping new wood stoves, but it's kind of tough. Recent EPA regulations keep changing stove designs so it's hard to go by reviews as there are often significant design changes from year to year for a given stove model. 

Anyway, share your wood heating setup- looking for mustachian ideas here. 



Blackeagle

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
  • Location: Ivins, UT
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2021, 08:19:19 PM »
Mostly posting to follow.  The only on-point comment I can offer is something I learned staying in a friend’s wood stove heated fifth wheel: building a good campfire and building a good wood stove fire are two very different skill sets.

Stash-Can

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Vancouver
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2021, 11:19:13 PM »
Best way to heat your home with a wood stove is to install a ductless electric heat pump lol!... I'm on vancouver island bc Canada, lots of woodstoves here the house I'm living in had a woodstove I got rid of it for gas and added a heat pump. Much more consistent heat less hassle and not expensive to run.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 11:20:57 PM by Stash-Can »

sonofsven

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2021, 05:45:09 AM »
I heat with wood as my only heat source, except for the heated (electric)  slate bathroom floor.  My house is approximately 1800 sf, 1100 down and 700 up.
My current stove is a Jotul F 400 Castine.
It's not for everyone. If no one makes a fire or no one is home for a few days the house gets pretty cold and it takes a good full day of burning to get it warm again. My house is newer and very tight and well insulated.
It's a lot more work than "push button heat" (that's the comedic/ derisive term I use to make fun of my friends).
It's not just the burning but the sourcing and storage. You'll also need a good supply of dry kindling and newspaper.
I'm a wood scrounger from way back, I used to sell firewood when I was a kid, so I'm always on the prowl, but you want to be at least one year ahead with your wood pile to account for drying time. It will dry differently depending on species and storage method.
You also need to get up on the roof and clean your chimney. I use a round chimney brush on a copper pipe extension I made.
Having said all that, I love my woodstove. It's a magic box that you put wood into and it makes heat. It might be the best invention in the history of mankind! There is no better feeling heat, in my opinion. I'm borderline addicted to the dry heat.
I have another stove in my shop, an old Fisher. It's more for fun though. But if something ever went wrong with the Jotul I'd move the Fisher in.
A full wood shed is a good feeling, it's money in the bank  The cost savings are huge, but maybe not so huge when you factor in the trucks, trailers, saws, and of course the physical work needed. If you're buying wood I suspect you'll still come out ahead, money wise, with wood. It depends on how many cords you'll use.
Around here when folks get too old to run a stove they convert to a pellet stove. Or a propane stove, but that's going to be more expensive. Or a mini split.
I would stay away from any stove with a catalytic converter.

Askel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2021, 06:21:09 AM »

My current stove is a Jotul F 400 Castine.

Nice! Sounds like you like the Jotul? I always hear good things about them, but they're probably the most expensive option. It's difficult to discern whether the price is justified.   

And sorry folks- mini splits and heat pump style systems are out for me. We spend too long on the cold end where they don't operate efficiently and electricity is crazy expensive here. 

sonofsven

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2021, 07:12:07 AM »

My current stove is a Jotul F 400 Castine.

Nice! Sounds like you like the Jotul? I always hear good things about them, but they're probably the most expensive option. It's difficult to discern whether the price is justified.   

And sorry folks- mini splits and heat pump style systems are out for me. We spend too long on the cold end where they don't operate efficiently and electricity is crazy expensive here.

I do like it, it took me a long time to find a used one. It was in a house that sold in '09, foreclosure, I think it was never used and the new buyers didn't know what they had. I've bought all my stoves used. I've deconstructed the metalbestos chimneys, too, just for the parts.
I had a smaller Jotul before that but I had to add wood constantly and also a Lopi, which was fine. A friend has a Country brand stove that he likes a lot.
The Jotul is a "pretty" stove, pretty costs more.
The plate steel stoves like the Country and Lopi are generally less expensive than the cast iron stoves like the Jotul. Thick plate steel stoves are really good, though,  the heavier the better.

Nate R

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 415
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Milwaukee, WI (Bay View)
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2021, 07:19:19 AM »
I just got a Jotul F100 hooked up in my cabin. Bought it in 2018 before the 2020 regs kicked in.  Love how it looks, and function so far is great...but it's a small stove, not gonna do enough for 2200 SF. The limiter right now is the regs..... the 2020 regs were up in the air for a while about being delayed, etc, and now there's a whole thing about re-testing ones that had already passed....so the number of stoves available for sale this season is quite limited.

If I were you, I'd be looking HARD at a Blaze King cat stove for a house that size. People who have to heat with wood full time seem to LOVE them......LONG burn times, adjustable output, etc.

Also, keep in mind, you need to know what you have for chimney setup, and what kind of shape it's in. That can cost more than the stove!

I'd check out hearth.com forums for more discussion on this.

Le North Dreamer

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 76
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2021, 07:53:40 AM »
We are renovating an old 2200 SF (+ crawl space) house and plan to have a wood stove or zero-clearance high-performance fireplace as the main heating appliance for the deep of winter, coupled with a mini-split for the milder fall/spring months (and for AC in the hot summer months). The house has an old 30-year-old stove that we currently use but as the house is drafty, it's not sufficient and will be moved to the garage. We're planning on insulting and air-tightening the house as much as we can so hopefully we can find the right model to fit the renovated house.

I personally love the process of cutting, splitting, drying, and burning wood as a heat source so putting a wood-burning appliance in the renovated house was a no-brainer. Nothing beats the warm feeling it gives to the main floor of the house when you get home from the biting winter winds...

As for prices, I'm lucky enough to live in the woods so a lot of my neighbors process firewood if ever I was to need more on a heartbeat. And prices are quite reasonable in my region (between $60 to $100 CAD per cord of supposedly dry hardwood, delivery included or not)

roomtempmayo

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2021, 08:10:29 AM »
Like @sonofsven , I have a Jotul F400 Castine.  It's the pre-2020 basic tube re-burn technology, and I think it's awesome.  It's not our primary heat source, but when we use the stove it heats our 1300 sq ft house pretty well.

@Askel , you'll see a huge efficiency gain with a new stove.  If I were after a 24/7 heater, I'd go with a catalytic stove like the Blaze King that @Nate R mentions, or a Woodstock Progress Hybrid.  The new Jotul F500 Oslo is a hybrid (tubes + cat) design as well.

If you just want an inexpensive and high efficiency stove, pretty much everyone seems to be happy with the Englander models that you can get from Home Depot.

I appreciate the previous owner's thriftiness, but I would get rid of that homemade stove pronto.  I'd also get the chimney inspected.  Never forget that you have a bonfire burning in a box inside your house, and the whole setup needs to work well to not kill you.

roomtempmayo

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2021, 08:14:04 AM »
Also, you may already be aware, but there's currently a 26% tax credit for buying a new high efficiency stove: https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal_tax_credits/biomass_stoves

Askel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2021, 08:33:27 AM »
Thanks all-  I've generally not been hearing very positive things about catalytic stoves like @sonofsven mentions. The only people I know with catalytic stoves around here have vermont castings models that you can burn either on or off the cat and they rarely get their stoves hot enough to use the cat.  Sugar maple and yellow birch are the predominant fuel types we use.   

svosavvy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Western NY
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2021, 08:36:31 AM »
I heat with wood as my only heat source, except for the heated (electric)  slate bathroom floor.  My house is approximately 1800 sf, 1100 down and 700 up.
My current stove is a Jotul F 400 Castine.
It's not for everyone. If no one makes a fire or no one is home for a few days the house gets pretty cold and it takes a good full day of burning to get it warm again. My house is newer and very tight and well insulated.
It's a lot more work than "push button heat" (that's the comedic/ derisive term I use to make fun of my friends).
It's not just the burning but the sourcing and storage. You'll also need a good supply of dry kindling and newspaper.
I'm a wood scrounger from way back, I used to sell firewood when I was a kid, so I'm always on the prowl, but you want to be at least one year ahead with your wood pile to account for drying time. It will dry differently depending on species and storage method.
You also need to get up on the roof and clean your chimney. I use a round chimney brush on a copper pipe extension I made.
Having said all that, I love my woodstove. It's a magic box that you put wood into and it makes heat. It might be the best invention in the history of mankind! There is no better feeling heat, in my opinion. I'm borderline addicted to the dry heat.
I have another stove in my shop, an old Fisher. It's more for fun though. But if something ever went wrong with the Jotul I'd move the Fisher in.
A full wood shed is a good feeling, it's money in the bank  The cost savings are huge, but maybe not so huge when you factor in the trucks, trailers, saws, and of course the physical work needed. If you're buying wood I suspect you'll still come out ahead, money wise, with wood. It depends on how many cords you'll use.
Around here when folks get too old to run a stove they convert to a pellet stove. Or a propane stove, but that's going to be more expensive. Or a mini split.
I would stay away from any stove with a catalytic converter.
+1 to all of this.

I am 44 years old and have been around the process of wood heat my entire life.  An airtight stove is a must.  Here in rural western NY if you want homeowners insurance with wood heat your stove must have a "UL" tag (underwriters laboratory).  This is a metal tag affixed to the back of the stove.  That being said most airtight stoves from at least back to the mid 70's will have one.  I am also not a fan of catalytic "reburning" stoves.  They are definitely more efficient by a lot, but, I own my own woods so supply is not an issue.  If supply is an issue then it may be worth it for you.  The reason I don't care for them is you will probably spend a few hundred dollars every ten years or so to replace parts. 


I am a die hard fan of Fisher wood stoves from the late 70's-early 80's and their ilk.  For me this was a golden age of stove making.  It's funny, non fisher's of this era are worth their weight in scrap metal while a good fisher will sell for $500 or so. A bargain imo.  I have a humungous fisher in the house and a "grandma bear" fisher in the garage.  I am convinced these stoves will outlive me.  If you get a humungous stove you can cook your dinner and boil your tea on it as well.  Wood fits better in a humungous stove and more thermal mass as well.  You will always end up with some funny looking knotty chunks that won't fit in a small stove. 


I usually do a thorough chimney clean right before starting in the fall.  I usually do another good clean halfway through the season because it makes me feel good.  There is usually a break in the weather for a day or two in January.  That is when I do it.  Also, do not forget to clean your internal stovepipes as well.  They do accumulate over time especially if you have any 90 degree bends where the smoke will slow down and drop particles.  Fires are a potential weapon of mass home destruction and being intentional helps keep you safe. 


Around here log loads are about $300 and will net you Tons of wood.  They are the way to go if you don't own timberland.  I find ash/hickory which are wood "cousins" don't have the btus you need in deep winter.  They are great for oct-dec and mar-apr.  For deep winter you need the real hard stuff (oak, hard maple, beech).  We are getting utterly devastated by the ash borer bugs here.  They also attack the hickory which I think is little known.  I think the loggers are putting a lot of ash in the log loads which is something you need to ask about as you will require that good hard wood for the cold months.  Be really intentional about where they drop your logs as this will save a lot of time moving wood. 


The absolute best value is you processing these loads yourself as when you buy processed wood you are really paying for the labor.  I would recommend not sinking a ton of money into pricey wood processing tools.  These would be pricey saws, pricey splitters, pricey tractors etc.  These cost thousands of dollars and are mostly unnecessary imo.  Seems like face punch toys.  This is what I would tell my 20 yr old self, as he bought an expensive commercial chainsaw, a too big pickup truck, and pricey wood splitter.  I consume approx 12 face cord (4'x8'x18-20" wide) per year for a tight 1200 sqft house with a full basement.  In a hard winter it is closer to 16 fc.  If you find this to be a drudgery or a waste of time you should consider something else.  I relish my time in the woods and find it therapeutic. 

I have a Husqvarna 455 rancher saw ($350) and it is the perfect size and price imo.  My circa 2001 Husqvarna commercial saw was $800+ at the time.  I scavenge axe heads that are American made and pre 1960's.  You can get these in junk shops or eBay.  Just buying heads on eBay is cheap and you put a handle on them.  They outlived their owners and will outlive you.  Sharpen your own chains.  Practice and get good at it. The shops will grind out 30% of the blade when they sharpen them and you will buy a lot of chains.  A lot of chain sharpening is just getting the gunk/debris out of the blades and they will work great.  Also sharpen your axes with a good stone or at least a file.  Dull axes bounce off the wood.  It is really night and day when you stop to realize.  I did buy a Husqvarna splitting maul for just under $100 as I believe Wetterlings produces these for them.  It is great imo.

My grandfather cut wood into his late 70's and I am convinced it kept him young.  I have many precious childhood memories of cutting wood with him.  He wore a classic red "buffalo plaid" flannel and when we would take a break he would smoke "half&half" tobacco in his corncob pipe.  I have photographic memories of this.  Very R. W. Emerson esque. 

When I bought my property a month after my 24th birthday in 2001 I was determined to have a wood splitter.  I used it for 10 years and found it made the process too easy and I went back to using an axe.  I found my belly grows less when I chop wood.  I am a wood enthusiast.  I chopped enough wood to realize axes from the department store are trash.  I use antique steel axe heads that have quality steel unrivaled except for steel that comes out of Sweden.  Obviously, my grandfather was an icon to me.  It made me happy a few years ago when I came across one of his old axe heads.  I shined and sharpened it, now it's back in service.  Have fun out there. 

Nate R

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 415
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Milwaukee, WI (Bay View)
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2021, 08:44:41 AM »
Thanks all-  I've generally not been hearing very positive things about catalytic stoves like @sonofsven mentions. The only people I know with catalytic stoves around here have vermont castings models that you can burn either on or off the cat and they rarely get their stoves hot enough to use the cat.  Sugar maple and yellow birch are the predominant fuel types we use.

Yeah, some of the VC cat stoves haven't been great..... But as was said, yes, you'll have to replace the cat every 10 years....but the BKs can light off the cat and maintain some low BTUs....

I'll reiterate: BK has a following for a reason. If they made a stove small enough for my cabin, I'd have been looking at them.


One other thought: Pay attention to the EPA BTU ratings. The low fire rating gives you some indication of how much the stove air can be tamped down. Some restrict that to pass emissions, and you end up with a stove that's too hot for shoulder season burns.   

PhilB

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5796
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2021, 08:59:24 AM »
We have a Jotul too and love it.  You really have to look on running a woodburner as a hobby.  If you factored in the time cost of cutting, splitting stacking and moving wood you'd find you were working for a very low hourly rate.  If you enjoy it then it's an incredibly satisfying way to get some healthy outdoor exercise.  If you don't then I'd imagine it could easily be a penance - personally I love it.

I'd strongly recommend getting one of the little self-powered electric fans to move the heat about the place.

Askel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2021, 09:05:31 AM »

Yeah, some of the VC cat stoves haven't been great..... But as was said, yes, you'll have to replace the cat every 10 years....but the BKs can light off the cat and maintain some low BTUs....

I'll reiterate: BK has a following for a reason. If they made a stove small enough for my cabin, I'd have been looking at them.


One other thought: Pay attention to the EPA BTU ratings. The low fire rating gives you some indication of how much the stove air can be tamped down. Some restrict that to pass emissions, and you end up with a stove that's too hot for shoulder season burns.

Thanks for the tip on the EPA BTU ratings. I've seen some real oddities on the low end of the stove market for air intake (i.e. no adjustability at all). It kind of had me worried about heat controllability.

Blaze King is definitely on the short list, especially for the downstairs unit.   

Askel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2021, 09:12:03 AM »


The absolute best value is you processing these loads yourself as when you buy processed wood you are really paying for the labor.  I would recommend not sinking a ton of money into pricey wood processing tools.  These would be pricey saws, pricey splitters, pricey tractors etc.  These cost thousands of dollars and are mostly unnecessary imo.  Seems like face punch toys.  This is what I would tell my 20 yr old self, as he bought an expensive commercial chainsaw, a too big pickup truck, and pricey wood splitter.  I consume approx 12 face cord (4'x8'x18-20" wide) per year for a tight 1200 sqft house with a full basement.  In a hard winter it is closer to 16 fc.  If you find this to be a drudgery or a waste of time you should consider something else.  I relish my time in the woods and find it therapeutic. 

I have a Husqvarna 455 rancher saw ($350) and it is the perfect size and price imo.  My circa 2001 Husqvarna commercial saw was $800+ at the time.  I scavenge axe heads that are American made and pre 1960's.  You can get these in junk shops or eBay.  Just buying heads on eBay is cheap and you put a handle on them.  They outlived their owners and will outlive you.  Sharpen your own chains.  Practice and get good at it. The shops will grind out 30% of the blade when they sharpen them and you will buy a lot of chains.  A lot of chain sharpening is just getting the gunk/debris out of the blades and they will work great.  Also sharpen your axes with a good stone or at least a file.  Dull axes bounce off the wood.  It is really night and day when you stop to realize.  I did buy a Husqvarna splitting maul for just under $100 as I believe Wetterlings produces these for them.  It is great imo.

My grandfather cut wood into his late 70's and I am convinced it kept him young.  I have many precious childhood memories of cutting wood with him.  He wore a classic red "buffalo plaid" flannel and when we would take a break he would smoke "half&half" tobacco in his corncob pipe.  I have photographic memories of this.  Very R. W. Emerson esque. 

When I bought my property a month after my 24th birthday in 2001 I was determined to have a wood splitter.  I used it for 10 years and found it made the process too easy and I went back to using an axe.  I found my belly grows less when I chop wood.  I am a wood enthusiast.  I chopped enough wood to realize axes from the department store are trash.  I use antique steel axe heads that have quality steel unrivaled except for steel that comes out of Sweden.  Obviously, my grandfather was an icon to me.  It made me happy a few years ago when I came across one of his old axe heads.  I shined and sharpened it, now it's back in service.  Have fun out there.

Good tips! I too enjoy the process of cutting wood. I'm buying wood from my neighbor right now because it's a good deal and I have way too much going on right now to do it myself, but look forward to when I can.  My usual winter vacation is winter camping in a wood heated hot tent.  This is basically spending a good chunk of your day scavenging firewood and then setting fire to it all night. Good times.  ;)   

But it's too late. Already bought the tractor. I tried to avoid it (monster snow blower and plow truck wouldn't cut it), but it's the only reasonable solution to keeping our driveway open.

Askel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2021, 09:17:08 AM »
And thanks everyone for asking about the chimney- I agree, it's very important!  I spent most of the home inspection process going over this and sorta glossed over the rest. Sceptic system collapsing? ok whatever BUT WHAT CONDITION IS THE CHIMNEY IN? I have cleaned many super sketchy chimneys and did not want to be trapped with one of my own.  Concrete block construction, 8" steel liner through the whole thing. Sensible cleanout positioning that I can use to run a brush up without having to get on the roof.  Insulated where it passes through the cold spaces. And it'll draw a pretty good draft without even having to light a fire.   

svosavvy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Western NY
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2021, 09:27:50 AM »
I hear you on the driveway.  Mine is a 600 footer and a total bitch in the winter.  I just thought of something when you mentioned drafts.  I have a tip.  Years ago I noticed if I went a few days without a fire my draft would basically reverse.  Unknowingly I would start a fire and get a facefull of smoke. I would fight and fight to reverse the draft to no avail.  Come to find out due to my house being tight it was tough to reverse.  It hit me like a ton of bricks one day that if I just opened the house door when establishing a draft it was easy as pie.  Also, a great wood porn book imo is "Norwegian Wood" by Lars Mytting.  I love it.

svosavvy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Western NY
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2021, 09:29:35 AM »
Also a good Beatles song lol.

roomtempmayo

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2021, 10:34:59 AM »
[I would recommend not sinking a ton of money into pricey wood processing tools.  These would be pricey saws, pricey splitters, pricey tractors etc.  These cost thousands of dollars and are mostly unnecessary imo.  Seems like face punch toys.  This is what I would tell my 20 yr old self, as he bought an expensive commercial chainsaw, a too big pickup truck, and pricey wood splitter.  I consume approx 12 face cord (4'x8'x18-20" wide) per year for a tight 1200 sqft house with a full basement.  In a hard winter it is closer to 16 fc.  If you find this to be a drudgery or a waste of time you should consider something else.  I relish my time in the woods and find it therapeutic. 

I have a Husqvarna 455 rancher saw ($350) and it is the perfect size and price imo.  My circa 2001 Husqvarna commercial saw was $800+ at the time.  I scavenge axe heads that are American made and pre 1960's. 

I would generally agree, especially that you don't need a splitter.

I know a lot of people like the Husky 455s.  I started with a 445 and found it didn't have enough juice for the red and burr oak that I cut.  I bought a 562 last spring and haven't regretted it, although it was certainly a splurge.  I've had the 445 rebuilt a couple times now, and it's been relegated to limbing and brush clearing duty.

I think the really thrifty thing to do would be to buy an old 62 or 272 that's either been refurbished or is still in great shape.  They seem to be readily available for < $300.

RyanAtTanagra

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
  • Location: Sierra Mountains
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2021, 10:44:52 AM »
Mostly posting to follow.  The only on-point comment I can offer is something I learned staying in a friend’s wood stove heated fifth wheel: building a good campfire and building a good wood stove fire are two very different skill sets.

Yea, and the latter is even easier ;-)

I personally love the process of cutting, splitting, drying, and burning wood as a heat source so putting a wood-burning appliance in the renovated house was a no-brainer. Nothing beats the warm feeling it gives to the main floor of the house when you get home from the biting winter winds...

Same, I like splitting wood.  We'll see how I feel after 20 years of it though.  This is our second winter season in our new house.  A wood stove was a requirement.  Both for aesthetics (who doesn't love a fire?) and for cost savings.  We're on 6-acres, so sourcing wood isn't an issue.  If you have to buy cords, I'm not sure how the cost difference works out.  We have propane and my goal is to go all winter without needing a delivery (which is cheaper in the summer).

One thing I'm still trying to figure out is how to move the heat to the rest of the house.  I'll kick on the HVAC fan once the temperature difference across the house is high enough, and that helps a bit, but I think a lot of heat is lost between intake and exhaust after going through the whole ducting system.

Rob_bob

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2021, 11:22:47 AM »
Wood stove as primary heat, an in room oil furnace as backup. Had an ice storm last winter, no power other than a portable generator for two weeks.  I was never cold and could heat food too.  It makes a good incinerator for junk mail, food waste but not plastics.  And when you are chilled to the bone nothing feels better than heat from a wood stove.  Plus my electric bill is normally under $35 :)

Running a ceiling fan helps spread the heat and an air purifier helps with smoke dust.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 11:24:26 AM by Rob_bob »

south of 61

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 73
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2021, 11:28:43 AM »
Just chiming in say we heat with wood and love it.

We cut all our own wood (heats us twice).

I don't have anything else to add of use though, because we have a wood boiler not a wood stove. We love the boiler (we don't have to split wood, it takes massive 4ft lengths) and it heats our hot water too.

My only advice is to make sure the wood is DRY. Lots of people try to sell wood around here that just isn't dry enough to burn hot/clean.

alsoknownasDean

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2849
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2021, 11:13:28 PM »
How far away are your neighbors?

If it's a rural property and they're hundreds of metres away, fine, but honestly wood stoves don't belong in urban areas.

svosavvy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Western NY
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2021, 08:48:18 AM »
[I would recommend not sinking a ton of money into pricey wood processing tools.  These would be pricey saws, pricey splitters, pricey tractors etc.  These cost thousands of dollars and are mostly unnecessary imo.  Seems like face punch toys.  This is what I would tell my 20 yr old self, as he bought an expensive commercial chainsaw, a too big pickup truck, and pricey wood splitter.  I consume approx 12 face cord (4'x8'x18-20" wide) per year for a tight 1200 sqft house with a full basement.  In a hard winter it is closer to 16 fc.  If you find this to be a drudgery or a waste of time you should consider something else.  I relish my time in the woods and find it therapeutic. 

I have a Husqvarna 455 rancher saw ($350) and it is the perfect size and price imo.  My circa 2001 Husqvarna commercial saw was $800+ at the time.  I scavenge axe heads that are American made and pre 1960's. 

I would generally agree, especially that you don't need a splitter.

I know a lot of people like the Husky 455s.  I started with a 445 and found it didn't have enough juice for the red and burr oak that I cut.  I bought a 562 last spring and haven't regretted it, although it was certainly a splurge.  I've had the 445 rebuilt a couple times now, and it's been relegated to limbing and brush clearing duty.

I think the really thrifty thing to do would be to buy an old 62 or 272 that's either been refurbished or is still in great shape.  They seem to be readily available for < $300.
My brother in law bought a 455 about 8 years ago on my recommendation and he has blown the jug twice on that saw.  He couldn't get the saw to run right either.  Ended up buying another saw.  I love him, but, he is not mechanically inclined (pharmacist by trade).  He lives about 15 minutes from Monticello down in Virginia.  I cut wood with him occasionally and it feels like it is always 90 degrees when we are working.  I wonder if a person should up their oil mix ratio in those hot climates.  I do 50:1 per factory req's.  I keep my chain nice and sharp and it flies through everything I throw at it.  Piston has never given me a problem ever (knock on wood) and I bought it in like 2006.  I do remember he bought his at like the Home Depot or something.  I bought mine from the local husky shop and those guys really know their stuff.  But, honestly, I think they all come in a box new.  Just throw the bar on and sell it? This is a great thread. I'm having fun.

sonofsven

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2021, 09:11:55 AM »
As far as wood splitters go, I consider them essential.
I didn't use to, I love splitting by hand with a good splitting ax or a maul and wedge, but the hydraulic splitter turns almost anything into useable firewood.  I get a lot of big leaf maple and it is nasty stuff to split. I scrounge a lot of ugly hardwood, without the splitter I couldn't process it.
I'm also lucky to have a good friend who's a retired logger. He has a stand up chain grinder (Silvey) that makes it so easy to put a square grind on your chain. I can swing by his place and in twenty minutes get two chains ready to cut.
He's nearing 80 and keeps the house warm and the woodshed full. He's convinced the day he stops working is the day he starts dying.
Fucking Norwegians ;-)
I also have the book Norwegian Wood. I love the guide to judging a man by the state of his woodpile for prospective brides.

svosavvy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Western NY
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2021, 09:42:13 AM »
As far as wood splitters go, I consider them essential.
I didn't use to, I love splitting by hand with a good splitting ax or a maul and wedge, but the hydraulic splitter turns almost anything into useable firewood.  I get a lot of big leaf maple and it is nasty stuff to split. I scrounge a lot of ugly hardwood, without the splitter I couldn't process it.
I'm also lucky to have a good friend who's a retired logger. He has a stand up chain grinder (Silvey) that makes it so easy to put a square grind on your chain. I can swing by his place and in twenty minutes get two chains ready to cut.
He's nearing 80 and keeps the house warm and the woodshed full. He's convinced the day he stops working is the day he starts dying.
Fucking Norwegians ;-)
I also have the book Norwegian Wood. I love the guide to judging a man by the state of his woodpile for prospective brides.
I love that part of the book too.  Also, how thoughtful a prospective husband is if there are lots of variable sized pieces stacked together.  Not thoughtful if he just has big chunks everywhere.  Lazy husband takes all day to make an axe handle.  Industrious husband gets it done in an hour.  Love it.  That old guy sounds like the old guy from the book. 

gaja

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1681
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2021, 10:41:01 AM »
Everyone here heats with wood, but I've never met anyone that has taken it as serious as my husband's grandfather. Not only did he stack the wood by type and size (and restack depending on whether it was a drying pile or storage pile), but he would also take the bark off and stack that separately. He had large rooms in the barn where if you opened the door, you would only see a wall of stacked wood. As he got older, his hearing disappeared, and we suspect he had a stroke at some point too. He was never a big talker, and in his later years he didn't speak at all. But he took care of the wood until the end. In his younger days he dug out the foundation for his house and barn by hand, with shovel and wheelbarrow. But that is a different story.

DH and I have tried to sort out the important stuff from the cultural norms when it comes to wood. For instance, we found out that if you have enough space, there is no need to split, sort and stack the wood very carefully. Just toss it in a pile, and choose the size and type of wood to burn based on how cold it is. But you do need a good fireplace - the difference between a modern cleanburning stove and an old combined parafin and wood stove is night and day. With a modern stove, we use less than half the amount of firewood, and it is only half the size of the old stove.

Getting a too large stove is a mistake many make. In the old house we had a 6000 W Jøtul Fønix CB, and if we fired up that one to the max, we had to leave the living room and open all the doors. In the town home we have a tiny Dovre 540W, and it is more than enough to heat the main floor (80m2).

Smokystache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 574
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2021, 10:58:55 AM »
I don't have any expertise and I hope I'm not taking this in a different direction ... but just heard about outdoor boilers on a youtube channel that I follow.

https://youtu.be/_PL0yBdvSxA

Without any knowledge more than that video, I like the appeal of having the unit be outside of a home and able to heat multiple buildings. I'm assuming their "con" is the price?

Askel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2021, 11:22:27 AM »
I don't have any expertise and I hope I'm not taking this in a different direction ... but just heard about outdoor boilers on a youtube channel that I follow.

https://youtu.be/_PL0yBdvSxA

Without any knowledge more than that video, I like the appeal of having the unit be outside of a home and able to heat multiple buildings. I'm assuming their "con" is the price?

The economics really depends on the price of wood in your area. They are very common here. I've housesit for a buddy of mine and kept his fed through the winter.  Even when it gets below 0F, I'd only have to fill his every other day or so.  But I think to make them work you need to be able to buy firewood by the log truck load.  Around here you can typically buy a ~12 cord log truck load of hardwood for ~$1200. Prices are entirely driven by diesel costs so that might be higher now.  Of course, you'll need space and the tools necessary to deal with 12 cords of 8 ft tree lengths dropped off at your house.   Most people I know tend to get a season, sometimes two out of that much wood. 

The other issue though is you can't just pop over to logtruckloadofwood.com and order a load. You typically have to call a guy who maybe knows a guy and then wait for them to be working a job that generates enough wood that can't be sold as anything but firewood.  People I know not directly connected to the forestry industry start this process early in the spring when load restrictions are lifted and then sweat it out all summer waiting for their guy to come through before heating season.   

Oh, and don't forget you need to keep it going all summer if your water heater is tied into it.   

RyanAtTanagra

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
  • Location: Sierra Mountains
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2021, 12:31:02 PM »
I'm intrigued by the outdoor broiler.  Can you just use normal split firewood that you harvest from your property?

Askel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2021, 12:34:06 PM »
No need to split it unless you really need to get it hot quick.  Can just toss in full rounds.  And the firebox on these things is huge, so you can get away with mixing in all kinds of junk softwood if you don't mind reloading more often.   

roomtempmayo

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2021, 07:58:40 AM »
I'm intrigued by the outdoor broiler.  Can you just use normal split firewood that you harvest from your property?

Edit: Just saw @Askel 's post about OWBs, which is right on.

Outdoor Wood Boilers (OWBs) have some positives and some negatives.

Positives:
- Mess stays outside.
- Can use enormous wood.
- Work with poorly seasoned (wet) wood.
- Can go a very long time between refilling.
- They're a quantity over quality approach, which allows you to burn mounds of softwood.
- They can heat multiple structures, like a house and outbuildings.
- They can be used to heat structures where open flame is forbidden by code, like a garage or shop.
- They're safer because all the fire is outdoors.

Negatives:
- They're inherently inefficient.  You're heating a shed outdoors and trying to transfer that heat indoors by piping it through cold earth.
- They take a ton of fuel.  Often multiple log trucks per winter.  A common strategy I see is to unload the truck in the yard and keep a saw handy to lop off rounds as needed to feed the stove.
- They tend to burn pretty dirty, but that may be primarily a result of what people burn in them.

Overall, I think they make the most sense when you want to heat a whole farmstead with wood, and you have easy access to lots and lots of wood for very cheap or free so that you don't care about burning it efficiently.

For most people trying to heat just a house and who don't have a buddy who's a logger, I think bringing the fire inside creates enough efficiency gain to be worth the drawbacks.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 08:17:35 AM by caleb »

RyanAtTanagra

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
  • Location: Sierra Mountains
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2021, 09:42:48 AM »
@caleb nice, thanks for all that

trollwithamustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1146
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2021, 10:49:10 AM »
wow, that homemade thing looks kind of scary from a combustion gasses being sealed view.

Any new wood stove is gonna be a lot safer if you are allergic to carbon monoxide.

Fishindude

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3075
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2021, 11:15:09 AM »
I've heated with wood my entire adult life.  Between our homes and buildings we currently have three wood stoves and a regular open face fireplace.  Some years it was our only heat, now days its supplemental.
Good deal that you have a back up system other than wood, otherwise you can't leave in the winter, or you have to have a house sitter keeping the fire going.

Regarding wood stoves, I like the rather simple welded steel, air tight stoves with manual adjustable air intake vents and a flue damper to control the burn rate.   I'm not a fan of the blowers, prefer simple radiant heat and a good location for the stove with a masonry hearth and back wall of some type to hold heat, as well for safety.   I do not like the fancy modern wood stoves with the built in catalytic baffles that are intended to minimize heat loss up the chimney as they don't burn as freely and tend to build up with creosote and crud.

Not a fan of the outdoor boilers either, because I like the crackle and sound of a fire in the house, as well as being able to stand near and warm myself.  Plus I don't want to go outdoors to stoke the thing.

No matter what type of wood burner you select, dealing with wood is a bunch of work, so get yourself set up properly for handling it to minimize the labor.
* Cut wood
* Split wood
* Handle wood
* Haul wood
* Store and dry wood
* Bring wood inside
* Haul and dispose of ashes
Good tools and equipment make life a whole lot easier.

Despite all the work, I will always have a wood heat source so long as I'm physically able.   It's just pretty darned nice to sit around a hot fire on a cold winter day / night.
It warms you to the bone, unlike heat coming out of your HVAC system.




MayDay

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4957
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2021, 06:25:36 AM »
Regarding outdoor boilers, my aunt and uncle have one. They live on a farm and it heats two large farmhouses. They have all the wood they need on the property for free so it makes sense. It is very consistent and even heat.

svosavvy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Western NY
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2021, 06:48:41 AM »
I'm intrigued by the outdoor broiler.  Can you just use normal split firewood that you harvest from your property?

Edit: Just saw @Askel 's post about OWBs, which is right on.

Outdoor Wood Boilers (OWBs) have some positives and some negatives.

Positives:
- Mess stays outside.
- Can use enormous wood.
- Work with poorly seasoned (wet) wood.
- Can go a very long time between refilling.
- They're a quantity over quality approach, which allows you to burn mounds of softwood.
- They can heat multiple structures, like a house and outbuildings.
- They can be used to heat structures where open flame is forbidden by code, like a garage or shop.
- They're safer because all the fire is outdoors.

Negatives:
- They're inherently inefficient.  You're heating a shed outdoors and trying to transfer that heat indoors by piping it through cold earth.
- They take a ton of fuel.  Often multiple log trucks per winter.  A common strategy I see is to unload the truck in the yard and keep a saw handy to lop off rounds as needed to feed the stove.
- They tend to burn pretty dirty, but that may be primarily a result of what people burn in them.

Overall, I think they make the most sense when you want to heat a whole farmstead with wood, and you have easy access to lots and lots of wood for very cheap or free so that you don't care about burning it efficiently.

For most people trying to heat just a house and who don't have a buddy who's a logger, I think bringing the fire inside creates enough efficiency gain to be worth the drawbacks.
I love OB's but one big negative is they are friggin expensive $$$$$ big time.  Especially if it is far from house.  Don't forget these are water lines coming into your house.  Another thing is if you do that whole fill it with green wood you will get epic plumes of smoke coming out your usually short smokestack.  This may mean if the wind is blowing right you will get a cloud of smoke coming right at your house for hours. 

A great use for ash is fertilizer ion the garden.  Ash is full of... well... (Pot)assium (ash).

the_fixer

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1252
  • Location: Colorado
  • mind on my money money on my mind
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2021, 11:34:19 AM »
We had a ranch style house with walkout basement in the mountains of Colorado and heated it pretty much exclusively with wood. We had a nice wood stove in the basement family room area and it would heat the entire house.

In the coldest part of winter normally I would fill it up with several large chunks of wood before bed (maybe 9:00 pm) and it would burn all night, the next morning ~7am there would still be a few coals just enough to start it up again with a few small logs. I would throw a chunk in from time to time during the day depending on the temp since I worked from home.

We had a nice quality free standing stove with a small  door from the 2000’s when the house was build. Quality matters greatly on how much wood you will use and how clean it burns

Things I learned

1. The type of wood matters greatly, cheap dry pine in small pieces burn fast and you will need a bunch. Heavy slow burning wood such as maple or oak burn for a long time. I could get by with 1 cord of maple or oak and a little pine to start the fire for the entire winter or 3 cords of pine.

2. If you are willing and able to split it you can get unlimited free wood from people who have trees cut down.

3. Having it in the basement was AMAZING!!! When we first moved in I thought it was stupid that the only one was in the basement family room instead of the upstairs living room where we could see it. If I were ever to heat a house with wood it would be in the basement it heats the floors upstairs and you stay so comfy and warm. Like having radiant heating in the floors.

4. We didn’t have a fan kit on ours but you can buy a little metal fan the runs off the heat generated by the stove to circulate the heat.

5. learn to control the air flow and vent you can get a nice long stable burn.

We really loved heating with wood and often dream about buying a place someday that we can heat with it again was the warmest and comfiest we have ever been.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sparkytheop

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2021, 02:31:03 PM »
Mostly commenting to come back to.  I will be building a house and will need a wood stove, but don't want to have that as my only heat source for a few reasons. 

KarefulKactus15

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1283
  • Location: Southeast
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2021, 07:28:26 AM »
This is so foreign to me.   

It seems like there is a huge time and financial commitment to wood.

Where does wood win the value argument?

Is it cheaper than:
High efficiency mini split?
Oil furnace?
Propane furnace?

Thinking about tending to a fire sounds awful to me!

All things considered (including your time) is it cheaper per btu?  I realize you can't change without a retrofit at this point but I'm generally curious of someone has thoroughly investigated the difference.   For curiosity.

habanero

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1145
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2021, 07:41:45 AM »
Where does wood win the value argument?

Varies a lot depending on cost of it and cost of alternatives (including infrastructure for all alternatives, including wood). It's pretty hard to use it as "only" or even main source of heat as it generally requires a lot of tending to and not great in multi-story homes generally. We use it only for peak input when we're home. It's an easy way to get a lot more heat in than from our alternative sources but wood does not provde any baseload in our home. My parents use it a lot, but dad has amassed absurd amounts of firewood as he owns forest and has all the equipment and makes wood as a hobby. They can prob have the stove burning for a couple of generations if they want to.

Even "free" firewood is a bit ambigious - if we put time aside it generally requires some equipment to produce lots of it and in most areas it also has a resell value as an alternative to burning it yourself.

But making and handling wood is great fun imo.

chemistk

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1743
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2021, 07:45:03 AM »
Posting so I can find this in the future. We have a big ranch with a whole chimney flue unused (capped off at the top) that runs all the way down to the basement. I want to explore the feasibility of a wood stove in the basement - we have plenty of covered dry storage for wood too.

svosavvy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Western NY
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2021, 07:54:53 AM »
This is so foreign to me.   

It seems like there is a huge time and financial commitment to wood.

Where does wood win the value argument?

Is it cheaper than:
High efficiency mini split?
Oil furnace?
Propane furnace?

Thinking about tending to a fire sounds awful to me!

All things considered (including your time) is it cheaper per btu?  I realize you can't change without a retrofit at this point but I'm generally curious of someone has thoroughly investigated the difference.   For curiosity.
Yes, there absolutely is a huge time and effort commitment to wood.  Yes, needing someone around to tend it is totally a thing.  If the idea sounds awful to you then you should totally not do it.  It is in the eye of the beholder whether it is a value or not.  If you are a high earner and you view the work as a drudgery and a waste of time then it will be a poor tradeoff to you.

It feels from the posts here that many value the process of wood heat and is nourishing to the soul/body in some form.  I am a coast-FIRE and could easily afford to heat my home with another fuel source.  I would save a lot of my time this way.  What would I do with that time?  Certainly not watch more tv.  Being around wood makes me feel good Ray Parker Jr style.

I pretty much know for a fact that my 1250 sqft home in western NY (think Buffalo area) would most likely cost me approx $1600-2000 worth of decomposed Devonian plant life (fuel oil or petroleum distillate aka lp gas) shipped halfway around the world to me.  Or I could consume grid electricity for my mini split $2000+ worth of grid electric produced by tight shale nat gas.  Or I could run my mini split with a massive solar array (thousands and thousands up front) in my backyard (an option I do consider at some point).  Right now I go approx 1200ft into my back woods and get what I need from there in a non destroy the place kind of way.  Some would call that local sourcing (locavore?).

Just my $.02

Askel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2021, 08:06:15 AM »
This is so foreign to me.   

It seems like there is a huge time and financial commitment to wood.

Where does wood win the value argument?

Is it cheaper than:
High efficiency mini split?
Oil furnace?
Propane furnace?

Thinking about tending to a fire sounds awful to me!

All things considered (including your time) is it cheaper per btu?  I realize you can't change without a retrofit at this point but I'm generally curious of someone has thoroughly investigated the difference.   For curiosity.

It's sort of like riding my bike to work.  Yes, it takes extra time, special equipment, and physical effort on my part. But in the end it's cheaper (in cash outlay at least) than just burning a bunch of fossil fuels, possibly better for the environment, and I enjoy it immensely more.   


Askel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2021, 08:10:41 AM »

I pretty much know for a fact that my 1250 sqft home in western NY (think Buffalo area) would most likely cost me approx $1600-2000 worth of decomposed Devonian plant life (fuel oil or petroleum distillate aka lp gas) shipped halfway around the world to me.  Or I could consume grid electricity for my mini split $2000+ worth of grid electric produced by tight shale nat gas.  Or I could run my mini split with a massive solar array (thousands and thousands up front) in my backyard (an option I do consider at some point).  Right now I go approx 1200ft into my back woods and get what I need from there in a non destroy the place kind of way.  Some would call that local sourcing (locavore?).

Just my $.02

Are you currently running a mini-split, @svosavvy ? Our climate is nearly identical to that of western NY and my reading seems to indicate that mini splits lose their efficiency when we get into the colder stretches of Dec-Feb.   But maybe they're still efficient enough? 

Curious if I should put those back on my radar for backup heat solution.   

svosavvy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Western NY
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2021, 08:26:46 AM »

I pretty much know for a fact that my 1250 sqft home in western NY (think Buffalo area) would most likely cost me approx $1600-2000 worth of decomposed Devonian plant life (fuel oil or petroleum distillate aka lp gas) shipped halfway around the world to me.  Or I could consume grid electricity for my mini split $2000+ worth of grid electric produced by tight shale nat gas.  Or I could run my mini split with a massive solar array (thousands and thousands up front) in my backyard (an option I do consider at some point).  Right now I go approx 1200ft into my back woods and get what I need from there in a non destroy the place kind of way.  Some would call that local sourcing (locavore?).

Just my $.02

Are you currently running a mini-split, @svosavvy ? Our climate is nearly identical to that of western NY and my reading seems to indicate that mini splits lose their efficiency when we get into the colder stretches of Dec-Feb.   But maybe they're still efficient enough? 

Curious if I should put those back on my radar for backup heat solution.   
No, sorry that was a theoretical mini split.  I don't have one.  I gotta say I am really intrigued by them though.  I loved the write up MMM did and there is a YouTube couple called I think "wild wonderful off grid". Their name is a play on the West Virginia state motto as that is where they live.  They built this huge solar array to cover their needs including mini splits and then some.  I have 30 acres and it is the perfect profile.  7 acres full sun basically yard and scrub then 23 acres mature hardwood.  The previous owner mowed the whole 7 acres.  It is a perfect setup for a ground mount solar array.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 08:31:12 AM by svosavvy »

the_fixer

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1252
  • Location: Colorado
  • mind on my money money on my mind
Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2021, 08:38:49 AM »
This is so foreign to me.   

It seems like there is a huge time and financial commitment to wood.

Where does wood win the value argument?

Is it cheaper than:
High efficiency mini split?
Oil furnace?
Propane furnace?

Thinking about tending to a fire sounds awful to me!

All things considered (including your time) is it cheaper per btu?  I realize you can't change without a retrofit at this point but I'm generally curious of someone has thoroughly investigated the difference.   For curiosity.
At our house in the foothills (~20 mins from town) there was no infrastructure other than power and cable.

No sewer, no gas lines

So that meant that you had a couple of options.
1. Electric baseboard heat (very expensive to operate)
2. Propane tank with a standard forced air heater
3. Wood
4. Or something else that is not common

Heating oil is not really a thing here in Colorado I have never met anyone that heats with it.

Our place had a propane furnace and a huge tank that we would get topped off once a year.

Wood was very cheap I would spend a $300 - $400 a year to keep our house super warm. One year I scored an entire maple tree for free that lasted for 2 years that was already cut I just had to split it.

Cost wise I am guessing we would have spent $2500 a year on propane and not had the same comfort level as it was I spent about 2 - $300 on propane a year and that was mostly due to our hot water heater but some from when we were out of town and the propane furnace ran at 57f to keep the pipes from freezing.

The tending is super easy if you are home, throw in a log a couple times during the day, fill it right before you go to bed and clean the old ash out maybe once a week or every other week.

Kind of a zen like experience, I imagine the same way people feel about tending to their plants or sitting by a stream.

The warmth is amazing, it is like that feeling of laying in the sun by the window taking a nap :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 08:43:06 AM by the_fixer »

Fishindude

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3075
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2021, 10:38:04 AM »
The tending is super easy if you are home, throw in a log a couple times during the day, fill it right before you go to bed and clean the old ash out maybe once a week or every other week.

Kind of a zen like experience, I imagine the same way people feel about tending to their plants or sitting by a stream.

The warmth is amazing, it is like that feeling of laying in the sun by the window taking a nap :)


This is what it's all about.
Plus, there is a certain satisfaction in working up your own heat supply and knowing you're going to be safe and warm, even if the power goes out.

svosavvy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Western NY
Re: Who heats with wood? Tell me about it!
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2021, 05:55:10 AM »
This is so foreign to me.   

It seems like there is a huge time and financial commitment to wood.

Where does wood win the value argument?

Is it cheaper than:
High efficiency mini split?
Oil furnace?
Propane furnace?

Thinking about tending to a fire sounds awful to me!

All things considered (including your time) is it cheaper per btu?  I realize you can't change without a retrofit at this point but I'm generally curious of someone has thoroughly investigated the difference.   For curiosity.
At our house in the foothills (~20 mins from town) there was no infrastructure other than power and cable.

No sewer, no gas lines

So that meant that you had a couple of options.
1. Electric baseboard heat (very expensive to operate)
2. Propane tank with a standard forced air heater
3. Wood
4. Or something else that is not common

Heating oil is not really a thing here in Colorado I have never met anyone that heats with it.

Our place had a propane furnace and a huge tank that we would get topped off once a year.

Wood was very cheap I would spend a $300 - $400 a year to keep our house super warm. One year I scored an entire maple tree for free that lasted for 2 years that was already cut I just had to split it.

Cost wise I am guessing we would have spent $2500 a year on propane and not had the same comfort level as it was I spent about 2 - $300 on propane a year and that was mostly due to our hot water heater but some from when we were out of town and the propane furnace ran at 57f to keep the pipes from freezing.

The tending is super easy if you are home, throw in a log a couple times during the day, fill it right before you go to bed and clean the old ash out maybe once a week or every other week.

Kind of a zen like experience, I imagine the same way people feel about tending to their plants or sitting by a stream.

The warmth is amazing, it is like that feeling of laying in the sun by the window taking a nap :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The warmth is definitely one of the most positive benefits.  In the northern US, particularly the New England area the bulk of normal people who live in town use nat gas which will be expensive this year.  Normally its pretty cheap.  Rural folks mostly use propane or fuel oil.  My parents heat with fuel oil.  They usually get a delivery in the fall and another in mid winter.  Each delivery is like $1200.  Luckily, I finally talked my dad into a pellet stove and he is enjoying his time playing with it though it only heats the living room.  He gave up cutting wood like 25 years ago. 

My wife just cannot tolerate the cold and has openly suggested moving south as she has relatives in Virginia & Kentucky.  My sensibilities most likely would line up better in general with Vermonters or Canadians.  The fact that I can be overly generous about keeping the house very toasty helps so much.  I just know if we had a thermostat I would be that guy hovering around the thing turning it down when no one is looking. 

Our large stove in the house is in our full basement.  The basement I like to call it business & pleasure as it is half finished.  The other half is utility area.  I am ultra fussy when processing our wood as I keep about 5 face cord on hand in the basement next to the stove.  Wood that I suspect might have bugs or some such I keep in a wagon outside.  In the industry, wood that is junk or undesirable for whatever reason is called "hog fuel."  When I have a good fire going with the good stuff I will randomly throw in an armload of hog fuel.  This wood might have a hibernating ant colony in it or have an inch of ice candy coating it.  The power of the fire already in progress will overcome these defects and keep it going good.  Once the fire is established you just won't see the smoke plumes and often the top of the chimney will appear clear with just those radiation waves you get from something warming the air around it. 

I usually keep the basement at around 80 degrees F.  We have free air registers cut into the main level floor and this keeps it around 70-72 degrees upstairs.  My wife can be found most cold days sitting next to the stove sipping tea and reading books.  Like has been mentioned here already, furnaces are good at warming the air in a home.  Our set up basically turns everything into thermal mass and the warmth is penetrating.