Author Topic: which internet router?  (Read 6388 times)

scrubbyfish

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which internet router?
« on: February 21, 2015, 01:20:08 PM »
A neighbour is willing for me to use their internet, so I have the Wifi password. Currently, I can catch access only if my laptop is at a specific spot, height, and angle. Someone said a router can give me full access throughout my place, which would be very helpful.

I'd like to buy it from Costco, per its return policy. Which item in this page is the cheapest that would do the trick? (i.e., The extenders seem to be the reverse of my need, being set up at the home-point and increasing its range, while I'm looking to snag the end of a neighbour's range and increasing it.)

Costco Canada's routers: http://tinyurl.com/mx3cbu8
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 01:22:40 PM by scrubbyfish »

bacchi

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2015, 01:50:41 PM »
An extender is exactly what you need.

You can also buy a USB antennae.

nanu

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2015, 01:50:53 PM »
The cheapest I found on the page is the "Amped Wireless High Power WiFi Range Extender & Smart Repeater" for $49.99
However there are a bunch of products whose price I can't see (they just say "member only item").

Note that you don't need a router, simply extending the signal should be fine (you can get a router and use it as a repeater though).

And I understand you like Costco, but there are cheaper items that can do the trick (don't know if they ship to Canada):
http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WR841N-Wireless-Router-300Mpbs/dp/B001FWYGJS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424551790&sr=8-1&keywords=wireless+router

scrubbyfish

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 02:02:56 PM »
Cheap is good, but buying any US-based products right now is way more than appears, due to the current exchange rate (plus, as always, customs fee and shipping). However, I just did the math to account for all of those factors and it seems the one you linked to, nanu, would come to $32.44 CAD, which is still better than $50.

re: USB antennae, would that help only a device it's plugged into (e.g., my laptop)? I really like small, but we have 2-3 devices we'd like accessing it. In that case, is the extender/repeater the better option over USB?

bacchi

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2015, 02:20:32 PM »
Yes, the USB antennae only helps one device. Pretty handy at, say, campsites or hotels.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00416Q5KI//ref=cm_sw_su_dp?tag=expertvagabond-20

MrFrugalChicago

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2015, 03:19:21 PM »
Most wireless access points can act as a repeater. I.e. they can suck in a wifi signal, then rebroadcast it to connected devices. Run into some issues like cheaper ones will only do half duplex.. meaning they will be sending a signal to your device OR to the neighbors device.. but not at the same time.. making your internet totally work, but potentially more choppy than if you had your own device.

On the flip side of this, 99.99% of internet providers have a policy against doing something like this. Does violating terms of services bother you? Do you think its okay to pirate movies without paying? Is stealing 1 grape at the grocery store okay? How about a whole banana? 

  I would personally not do this for performance + ethical reasons, but it should totally technically work.

nanu

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2015, 05:21:19 PM »
Personally, I don't see any ethical issue with this.
If instead of being neighbors, they were roommates in a house/apartment, would there be any issue? Of course not.
How exactly does having separate addresses change the ethics of this?

Stealing a fruit is taking something no one paid for - this is more akin to your neighbor buying a banana and offering to share it with you.
If the grocery store would prohibit that, would it also be unethical to share his banana?

MrFrugalChicago

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2015, 05:44:07 PM »
Personally, I don't see any ethical issue with this.
If instead of being neighbors, they were roommates in a house/apartment, would there be any issue? Of course not.
How exactly does having separate addresses change the ethics of this?

Stealing a fruit is taking something no one paid for - this is more akin to your neighbor buying a banana and offering to share it with you.
If the grocery store would prohibit that, would it also be unethical to share his banana?

Shrug you agree to the TOS when you subscribe.

i.e. att http://www.att.com/shop/internet/att-internet-terms-of-service.html

a. No Resale. The Service is provided for your use only (unless otherwise specifically stated) and you agree not to, whether for a fee or without charge, reproduce, duplicate, copy, sell, transfer, trade, resell, re-provision, redistribute, or rent the Service, your membership in the Service, any portion of the Service, use of the Service, or access to the Service, including, but not limited to, reselling capabilities enabled or used by a specific application (including, without limitation, Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP) via wired, wireless or other means. For example, you agree that the Service is not to be used to trunk or facilitate public internet access ("Hotspots") or any other public use of the Service, or for any high volume purpose.  All aspects of the Service and Site, except that portion provided by third party providers, is copyrighted and property of AT&T and/or Yahoo! as applicable.

nanu

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2015, 06:22:00 PM »
I never said it's not against the TOS, though it's the neighbor that's (probably) violating the terms, not him.

And I disagree that breaking the TOS is (necessarily) unethical. It violates the contract, but there's a difference between something that is illegal and something that is unethical.
For example, brewing your own beer is illegal in many places. Does that make it unethical? (if you say yes, then clearly our views are too different to ever bridge that gap)

scrubbyfish

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2015, 11:32:21 AM »
The cheapest I found on the page is the "Amped Wireless High Power WiFi Range Extender & Smart Repeater" for $49.99
However there are a bunch of products whose price I can't see (they just say "member only item").

So, are ALL the products on that page (http://tinyurl.com/mx3cbu8) equally effective for my purposes? (If so, I can maybe login with my membership, and just snag the cheapest thing from that page.)

johnny847

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2015, 12:07:32 PM »
The cheapest I found on the page is the "Amped Wireless High Power WiFi Range Extender & Smart Repeater" for $49.99
However there are a bunch of products whose price I can't see (they just say "member only item").

So, are ALL the products on that page (http://tinyurl.com/mx3cbu8) equally effective for my purposes? (If so, I can maybe login with my membership, and just snag the cheapest thing from that page.)
Nope. For example, there is a powerline extender on that page, which is completely useless for you (that is going to broadcast a wifi signal for a network that is set up over the power lines in your house.). Also, there are some routers on that page. Some, but I would assume not all, routers can be reconfigured to be a wireless repeater. As nanu said, you want a range extender/repeater, which is the complete opposite of your assertion in your initial post.

And no two range extenders will have the same performance. As to which range extender is best, I have no idea.

One thing you should know before you buy this - is the speed of the wifi at the particular spot at your house okay? A range extender fundamentally cannot increase the speed you get - that speed is limited by the channel from your neighbor's house to your house and the quality of your neighbor's router (granted, a range extender you buy may be able to receive the signal better than your current laptop, but this effect is not going to be all that significant). The range extender at best will only provide to the rest of the house the same speed you receive at that point in the house you have to be at now.

scrubbyfish

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2015, 11:42:02 AM »
Yes, the speed I get in my one tiny spot of home is excellent, perfectly adequate.

I registered my card to view online prices, sorted all the products on the original page by price, and created a "compare" page of the four cheapest products:

http://tinyurl.com/m4csb63

Product #1: TP Link...Pocket Router. If a hotel room, etc, offers only wired access, you plug this baby in to create wireless throughout that area. Is this the kind of thing you were talking about earlier, bacchi? If so, no good for my current need, right?

Product #2: TP Link...USB Adapter. Perhaps same purpose as above?

Product #3: TP Link...Powerline Extender. That which  johnny847 noted is no good to me.

Product #4: Amped Wireless...Extender and Smart Repeater. So, this is the cheapest thing on the page that does what I need, right? And I can buy a cheaper version of same here http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WR841N-Wireless-Router-300Mpbs/dp/B001FWYGJS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424551790&sr=8-1&keywords=wireless+router, as noted by nanu.

All correct?

johnny847

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2015, 11:51:51 AM »
#1). Correct. It is possible the router can also act as a repeater, but you have to reconfigure it from it's default configuration. Probably not worth your trouble.
#2). No. If you had a computer that had no wifi connectivity, plugging this in would give your computer the ability to connect to a wifi network.
#3). Yup
#4). Maybe.... The link nanu provided links me to the router, which, I will reiterate, may have the ability to be reconfigured as a repeater. I don't know if that's the case. However, on that same product page, you can change your selection from "N300 Router" to " N300 Range Extender w/ Power Outlet Pass-Thru" which for sure will do what you want.

Considering it does not seem you are well versed with networking hardware, I would not recommend you buy a router with the hope of reconfiguring it to be a wireless repeater unless you read through the manual and make sure it can be reconfigured, and want to take on such a task.

scrubbyfish

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2015, 11:59:09 AM »
Yes, I am definitely NOT well versed in anything related to technology, and need to get a simple thing that I basically just plug in. Will this work, then: http://www.costco.com/Amped-Wireless-High-Power-WiFi-Range-Extender-%2526-Smart-Repeater.product.100104720.html   (I take your point about the options on Amazon US, but for the small difference in savings, I'd prefer to have Costco Canada's lifetime return option.)

johnny847

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2015, 12:03:29 PM »
Yes, I am definitely NOT well versed in anything related to technology, and need to get a simple thing that I basically just plug in. Will this work, then: http://www.costco.com/Amped-Wireless-High-Power-WiFi-Range-Extender-%2526-Smart-Repeater.product.100104720.html   (I take your point about the options on Amazon US, but for the small difference in savings, I'd prefer to have Costco Canada's lifetime return option.)
Haha whoops I only addressed half of #4. Yes, that will work for your purposes.

scrubbyfish

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2015, 01:08:57 PM »
Great!! Thanks so much, johnny847, and everyone!!

I'm excited about this -today I'm working on a project and have to sit in one uncomfy spot and keep turning my computer to save my work into the cloud. Soon I will get to sit near the big window! And at a table! And!

johnny847

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2015, 01:11:56 PM »
Great!! Thanks so much, johnny847, and everyone!!

I'm excited about this -today I'm working on a project and have to sit in one uncomfy spot and keep turning my computer to save my work into the cloud. Soon I will get to sit near the big window! And at a table! And!
And....what? Don't leave us hanging here scrubbyfish!

scrubbyfish

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2015, 01:16:40 PM »
:)

And...I have no idea! I am curious to see where I will end up sitting! Ooooohhh... outside in the springtime! Oooooh... On the floor! I love working on the floor (more room for paper). Perhaps I will WALK AROUND while I type! It's gonna be good.

johnny847

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2015, 01:22:07 PM »
:)

And...I have no idea! I am curious to see where I will end up sitting! Ooooohhh... outside in the springtime! Oooooh... On the floor! I love working on the floor (more room for paper). Perhaps I will WALK AROUND while I type! It's gonna be good.
Hahahha nice

Sid Hoffman

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2015, 01:28:36 PM »
On the flip side of this, 99.99% of internet providers have a policy against doing something like this. Does violating terms of services bother you? Do you think its okay to pirate movies without paying? Is stealing 1 grape at the grocery store okay? How about a whole banana?

Considering the neighbor IS PAYING for internet access that the cable monopoly is overcharging him for already, it is not stealing.  The only criminals are the cable companies.  DOWN WITH COMCAST!

In reality, what the cable company is saying is this:

Hey, want a grape?  Sorry, you need to buy a whole bundle of grapes.  More than you could ever eat for yourself.  Pay up.  Oh, you want to share your grapes? Nope, sorry, you're not allowed to share those grapes you paid for.  You're only allowed to buy the entire bundle so you yourself can eat one grape.  You may not share your grapes with anyone else.

Seriously: cable companies get away with it because they have a monopoly and a boatload of legislative lobbyists.  Imagine your grocery store saying you are only allowed to buy food for yourself and not to share with anyone else, and oh: by the way you're only allowed to buy the ultra-mega-superfamily sizes of each food item.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 01:32:37 PM by Sid Hoffman »

scrubbyfish

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2015, 02:03:50 PM »
In reality, what the cable company is saying is this:

Hey, want a grape?  Sorry, you need to buy a whole bundle of grapes.  More than you could ever eat for yourself.  Pay up.  Oh, you want to share your grapes? Nope, sorry, you're not allowed to share those grapes you paid for.  You're only allowed to buy the entire bundle so you yourself can eat one grape.  You may not share your grapes with anyone else. [...] and oh: by the way you're only allowed to buy the ultra-mega-superfamily sizes of each food item.

Gosh, that's an excellent analogy!!

Yep, in Canada the monopoly is, I believe, even more present than in the US. Where I live, my starting option is $61.60/mo and I can choose between two whole companies. And then it required me to pay $60+ to cancel on less than 30 days notice (I believe new legislation makes this illegal as of very recently), and then charged me $108 for the modem I'd returned (until I spent considerable time pursuing that matter).

If we go over the beginning limit (highly unlikely since it's so high), we pay more. As it stands, my neighbours use theirs only a few weeks of each year, and I told them if my use ever causes their bill to increase to let me know and I will pay that overage, half of all of it, whatever they wish.

This question could get into all sorts of interesting discussions... How many people should be allowed to use one internet account? Only the one person whose name is on the account? If not, who can he share it with? Only people related by blood inside the same dwelling? Related by marriage inside the same dwelling? If a poly marriage, only the first two people that met? Are four kids too many for a family? What about guests? Roommates? The tenant in the basement suite or carriage house? This is all where my brain has no idea the ethics of sharing, but Sid Hoffman's analogy about being forced to buy only the giant size packs and then not share them out... That would make me pure evil, because I'm always sharing the excess of anything I have, and have been known to buy in bulk with the sole intention of sharing, either giving others the proportionate deal or a freebie.

As far as I can tell, the internet company is offering a certain amount of GB per $61.60, and charges more if a given glom of humans uses more than that amount via that account.

(With real grapes, though, I take just the portion I need -like, six- from the bigger bags and pay for just those. Sometimes I imagine the stores might not like that, but it seems reasonable to me. I also do things like put different bulk candies into the same bag -for the planet- but put only the highest price ticket number on the whole shebang, which I think is a win for me (I like only a few of each), a win for the planet, and a win for the store.)

Sid Hoffman

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Re: which internet router?
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2015, 03:57:33 PM »
scrubbyfish, OK, actually that is significantly worse than what I've dealt with.  I've swapped between the cable and phone (DSL) providers here for internet access and the bright spot is that if you can put up with the fact they both very reliably have billing errors (4 out of 7 bills were wrong from Cox, my local cable internet provider) the prices are a lot less.

I was paying $35/month from the cable company and am currently on a deal for just under $31/month for DSL on a 1-year pricing agreement.  Each one charges $30-50 to activate service and in the case of DSL, I had to buy a new VDSL2 compatible modem/router which was another $100.  Still, it's likely that thing will last a long time, just as I've typically gotten about 5 years out of a cable modem.  If you annualize $50/year of hardware upgrades and $50/year in activations plus $33/mo in service it works out to about $41/month all-in.

I'm hopeful that we see an overhaul of how internet access is handled.  I'd rather get my internet as an $8 line item on my bundled city services bill, same as how my city bundles garbage collection, recycling collection, fresh water, and sewer together as a single bill.  I'd be happy to get basic internet access at a municipal level where they charge only their true cost, not cost + profits + massive marketing budget.  Seriously, I get SO MANY marketing flyers in the mail for cable and DSL, you'd think they didn't already have a monopoly the way they advertize.  Probably 20-30 ads in the mail a year from each one at least.