Whether to scale back from 2011 CR-V?

[annamal instinct]

Hey folks! New Mustaschian here, and I have a question I'd like to throw out to more experienced Mustaschians about doing the math on cars.

Background: In the 3 weeks since I found MMM, we've already made $2k in extra payments toward our $181k of debt, simply from reducing spending. The debts are our mortgage, a HELOC that allowed us to avoid PMI, and student loans. Our first goal is to kill our debt as quickly as possible, starting with the HELOC.

As part of all this, I'm trying to convince my hubby to scale back on our car. We're a 1-car family with a 2011 CR-V in very good condition with 73697 miles on it. It's Kelley Blue Book value is $11,376. We have 2 kids in car seats; one is rear-facing for another year. No more kids in the plans. The hubby is 6'1" with disproportionately long legs. :) I'm 5'10". 

Can you help me sell the hubby on scaling back to something like a Scion XB? I found a 2013 one on Craigslist for $6990 with 42299 miles on it. Although I hope to find a slightly older one, let's say we replace our CR-V with this one, since it's actually for sale in our area. I'm arguing that this change puts us ahead not only $4386, which we'd put toward our debt immediately, but also the interest we'd otherwise pay on that debt--anywhere between 2-6.9%, depending on which loan we're killing by the time we switch cars.

(a) Should we be looking at far older vehicles than 2013? I'm not mechanically inclined and am not sure I have the room for that level of badassity with 2 kids in diapers and a full-time job...although I'm certainly sold on the value of researching and, when it's more efficient, solving mechanical issues rather than spending the time and money involved in outsourcing to mechanics. And when the kids are more independent, I'd love to acquire some mechanical skills.

(b) Is it worth it to sell the CR-V at this point? Or do we drive the CR-V into the ground, hopefully 20+ years from now? Or...?

[human]

I'm guessing the car is paid off? If so at least car loans aren't being paid. Personally I don't know I'd be selling a paid off used car for another used car unless the first was a big gas guzzler and I had a long commute. You know the car's history, I'd be tempted to keep it.

[Dave1442397]

I'd keep the CR-V. You have it, you know its history, and it's working for you.

[MandalayVA]

As the owner of a CR-V that's ten years older than yours and still runs like a dream, I'd advise for you to keep it till it dies--or when your oldest is ready to drive and you can give it to them.  :D

[chasesfish]

I'm in the camp of keep the CRV - Your total cost of ownership going forward will be very reasonable.

[JustGettingStarted1980]

It's all about Sunk Costs. You've already sunk them, so who cares? The next question is, if you could buy a gently used pre-owned vehicle that you could trust that you know will last a good additional 10 years with minimal depreciation loss for about $11K, would you buy it? Seems like a good bet to keep this vehicle.

[talltexan]

I'm a little surprised OP didn't provide anything like miles driven per month. That would make a difference.

Are those miles often with all four of you in the car? Or just one person?

[sequoia]

I'm a little surprised OP didn't provide anything like miles driven per month. That would make a difference.

Are those miles often with all four of you in the car? Or just one person?

OP said "We're a 1-car family with a 2011 CR-V in very good condition with 73697 miles on it."

Lets assume OP bought it brand new, it is approx 12K/year (~73K/6year). IMO the cost per miles (gas, maintenance - tires, brakes etc) is not going to be much different now, even if OP change to a more economical car. Buying a cheaper and better gas mileage used car, lets say a Prius, does not means saving money automatically. Yes, you can save gas with Prius, but does the "new" used car comes with something that need to be fixed? There is a risk you are inheriting problems from previous owner. Every used car I have bought, I go thru it top to bottom before my wife and son ride in it, and I always have to put in money to fix/replace things. I do account for these into the purchase price, so it is not a surprise.

@JustGettingStarted1980 post summarize it "The next question is, if you could buy a gently used pre-owned vehicle that you could trust that you know will last a good additional 10 years with minimal depreciation loss for about $11K, would you buy it? Seems like a good bet to keep this vehicle."

I would say keep the CR-V since it is known to OP that in good condition.

[annamal instinct]

I'm a little surprised OP didn't provide anything like miles driven per month. That would make a difference.

Are those miles often with all four of you in the car? Or just one person?

We bought it used in 2013, and I don't recall the number of miles on it at the time. With Mustachian changes to our driving habits, we're doing 66 miles a month as a family to family events/visits in other cities. Other than that, I drive it solo for work about 3x a month. I commute 2 miles to and from work ~3 days a month--and I only do this when I absolutely have to drive to a meeting in another city. This is reimbursed at $0.535/mile.

[catccc]

I am usually one to suggest scaling back, but with your heights, the CRV may be the way to go.  We are a family of 4 in a Toyota Matrix, and it works great for us.  But at 5'11' and 4'11", we are comfortable enough.  6'1" and 5'10" with long legs might not work so well.  There's not a ton of leg room up front if you have a RF carseat in the back.  We RF'd for quite a while (DD2 was 5 and some months when we finally turned her around) and during that time, it was a tight squeeze for DH in the front.  Once they are FF, it might work okay.  But I stay stick with the CRV for now.

Also, on having more time for stuff when kids are older... I found that when my youngest was about 4.5, I suddenly starting having time for myself!  It's great!  I mean, they still require a lot from me, but it's considerably less than when they were younger.  They are 6 and 8 now.  It's bittersweet, too, because I miss them as babies!

[honeybbq]

If you have a functional, paid off Honda, I see no reason to go through the hassle of switching cars for a couple thousand bucks in possible savings? I have a 2005 CRV and it's still going VERY strong. There's no reason to think your car won't last 100k more miles, etc.

[talltexan]

I'm a little surprised OP didn't provide anything like miles driven per month. That would make a difference.

Are those miles often with all four of you in the car? Or just one person?

We bought it used in 2013, and I don't recall the number of miles on it at the time. With Mustachian changes to our driving habits, we're doing 66 miles a month as a family to family events/visits in other cities. Other than that, I drive it solo for work about 3x a month. I commute 2 miles to and from work ~3 days a month--and I only do this when I absolutely have to drive to a meeting in another city. This is reimbursed at $0.535/mile.

set the re-imbursement aside for a second. I'm hearing usage below 3,000 miles/year out of this.

If that's true, it would take three decades to use up all the miles that are left in this car. Instead of trying to find a smaller, newer car, what would the financial dimension of finding a smaller, older car be?

[Syonyk]

You miss the costs of changing cars - as do many of these calculations.

I generally find that any new-to-me used vehicle costs between $500 and $1000 in the first 6 months, and I do my work myself.  This is on top of new-to-me vehicle registration costs and such.

If you're looking at taking an older car to a mechanic to fix the issues that pop up (remember, someone is selling it for a reason, and they know more about it than you do), those savings disappear in a hurry.

Keep the car, work on driving it less.

[talltexan]

I wonder if there are other life-improvements you could find by using your CR-V a little more, ahem, roughly. Could you park it outside and do something useful with extra garage space?

[the_fixer]

If you want to have a car around I would just keep the one you have it is a great car that should last a long time with low cost.

The question I would be asking myself is would it be better to sell it and not replace it and instead use Uber / Lyft and rent a car when going further?

[Manguy888]

My family has a 2011 CRV too, and our other car is a 2008 Scion XD, so I think we're right in your wheelhouse as far as giving advice. I like both cars a lot but wouldn't sell one to buy the other. My Scion hovers around 30MPG average, the CRV closer to 23. Not a big enough deal to go through the hassle and transaction costs of selling and buying a car, especially with the limited number of miles you drive

It annoys me that the CRV uses the synthetic oil which makes for a $60 oil change, but I started doing the oil changes myself (28$ total), so you could save money that way.

[annamal instinct]

If you want to have a car around I would just keep the one you have it is a great car that should last a long time with low cost.

The question I would be asking myself is would it be better to sell it and not replace it and instead use Uber / Lyft and rent a car when going further?

Thanks again for this. You gave me the nudge I needed to look into our local car share options. We would come out ahead going to zero cars and using a local car sharing nonprofit for trips where biking doesn't work (i.e., when we need to take the kids to grandparent visits). You've revolutionized our household functioning with one little post!

[the_fixer]

Thank you for the comment it feels good knowing I was able to contribute something of value as this site has been a valuable resource in my Journey.

You should post some followup posts in here about how it is working out for you the good & bad aspects so people that look at it in the future have a reference point when they are deciding if it makes sense for them.

[Manguy888]

We would come out ahead going to zero cars and using a local car sharing nonprofit for trips where biking doesn't work (i.e., when we need to take the kids to grandparent visits).

If you could pull this off it would be amazing! Does anyone know how this would impact insurance? If you're driving car-share cars you'd probably still need some form of insurance.

Please follow up and let us know how it goes.

[annamal instinct]

We would come out ahead going to zero cars and using a local car sharing nonprofit for trips where biking doesn't work (i.e., when we need to take the kids to grandparent visits).

If you could pull this off it would be amazing! Does anyone know how this would impact insurance? If you're driving car-share cars you'd probably still need some form of insurance.

Please follow up and let us know how it goes.

I researched it today. My local car share company charges $8.50/hour for anything outside a 5-mile radius (i.e., all of our driving), plus $0.35/mi for anything outside 100 mi. This includes insurance. They check our driving record when we sign up. There is no registration/membership fee, just the hourly rate. This would amount to $100/mo for us in our heaviest driving months (2 grandparent visits, 1 trip to Costco, and 1 book club at our friends' house a few cities away). They have cars immediately available in the middle of the night, eliminating my biggest concern: needing to get to the ER with a kid having health issues that don't require an ambulance. They also have plenty of vehicles that can handle 2 carseats. I'm excited about this...

[sequoia]

I researched it today. My local car share company charges $8.50/hour for anything outside a 5-mile radius (i.e., all of our driving), plus $0.35/mi for anything outside 100 mi. This includes insurance. They check our driving record when we sign up. There is no registration/membership fee, just the hourly rate. This would amount to $100/mo for us in our heaviest driving months (2 grandparent visits, 1 trip to Costco, and 1 book club at our friends' house a few cities away). They have cars immediately available in the middle of the night, eliminating my biggest concern: needing to get to the ER with a kid having health issues that don't require an ambulance. They also have plenty of vehicles that can handle 2 carseats. I'm excited about this...

Sorry for probably dumb question here. So how does that work if you need a car in the middle of the night? They deliver the car to you? How long would that take?

I am not sure there is a car sharing in my area, but we do have small kid. Knowing that we can jump into our car and take him to ER in the middle of the night or in the middle of a storm is priceless for us (I hope this would never happen but just like insurance, you have it to make sure you are covered when bad things happen).

[annamal instinct]

I researched it today. My local car share company charges $8.50/hour for anything outside a 5-mile radius (i.e., all of our driving), plus $0.35/mi for anything outside 100 mi. This includes insurance. They check our driving record when we sign up. There is no registration/membership fee, just the hourly rate. This would amount to $100/mo for us in our heaviest driving months (2 grandparent visits, 1 trip to Costco, and 1 book club at our friends' house a few cities away). They have cars immediately available in the middle of the night, eliminating my biggest concern: needing to get to the ER with a kid having health issues that don't require an ambulance. They also have plenty of vehicles that can handle 2 carseats. I'm excited about this...

Sorry for probably dumb question here. So how does that work if you need a car in the middle of the night? They deliver the car to you? How long would that take?

I am not sure there is a car sharing in my area, but we do have small kid. Knowing that we can jump into our car and take him to ER in the middle of the night or in the middle of a storm is priceless for us (I hope this would never happen but just like insurance, you have it to make sure you are covered when bad things happen).

I grilled the company on that scenario because that's the #1 reason we have a car. We're a 5-minute walk from a brick-and-mortar store for this company, and members can get cars in the middle of the night using a lockbox system to get the key. With this proximity, plus a few minutes to get a key and get to the car, plus a few minutes to install the carseat, for us it's a 10-minute difference from having our car in the garage. We'd call an ambulance in a situation where we thought those 10 minutes were a big deal, so this works for us. I will admit if it were much more time-intensive to do the middle of the night thing, we wouldn't do it. (And full disclosure, we haven't decided to do this yet! I do think this could work, though.)