Car shopping

[Travis]

We're expanding to a two car family again and I'm aiming for no older than 2012. We absolutely love our 2008 Prius and we're looking for another hatchback fuel-sipper with some leg and cargo room. I've looked at a dozen dealership websites in the area and those parameters keep pushing us to another Prius and the Ford C-Max series. On paper they both look good. The models offered range from 2012 to 2015, 72k-158k miles, and $10k-$16k. When we bought our Prius in 2015 it had 160k miles (currently at 222k) and haven't run into too many problems except that it burns oil now and a couple engine components have needed replacing. I looked at Focus hatchbacks and they're a third less than the price of the other two models (but only at smaller dealerships); however, if they're anything like the Focus sedan we used to have the back seats are cramped.

Does anyone have experience with the C-Max or C-Max Energi?

[Paper Chaser]

I have the same powertrain in my Fusion Energi. It's nearly identical to the Toyota hybrid design and seems almost equally reliable. I've done nothing but an oil change every 15k miles or so (I use the full 21 miles of EV range pretty much every day so the ICE doesn't always run). I've only got 83k miles on it, but the average fuel economy is around 77mpg.
The biggest drawback is the large phev battery takes up a ton of trunk space. It wouldn't be as bad in the CMax hatch, but I think it's still less than ideal. The regular hybrid should be better in that regard than the Energi.

I'd steer far away from any Focus of that generation with an automatic (dual clutch) transmission. They're known to be pretty problematic and are the subject of recalls, class action lawsuits, etc. The manual trans cars should be fine.

[Travis]

I have the same powertrain in my Fusion Energi. It's nearly identical to the Toyota hybrid design and seems almost equally reliable. I've done nothing but an oil change every 15k miles or so (I use the full 21 miles of EV range pretty much every day so the ICE doesn't always run). I've only got 83k miles on it, but the average fuel economy is around 77mpg.
The biggest drawback is the large phev battery takes up a ton of trunk space. It wouldn't be as bad in the CMax hatch, but I think it's still less than ideal. The regular hybrid should be better in that regard than the Energi.

I'd steer far away from any Focus of that generation with an automatic (dual clutch) transmission. They're known to be pretty problematic and are the subject of recalls, class action lawsuits, etc. The manual trans cars should be fine.

On paper the Energi has slightly more trunk space than my older-generation Prius, but I've seen photos of the Energi trunk and it just looks awkward. I'm tempted to bring some luggage to the dealership and just see how it fits. Thanks for the insight!

[AccidentialMustache]

We have friends with a C-max hybrid and as far as I know they like it. DW rode in it a time or two and had no complaints.

Is a volt on your list? Maybe should be? Also have a friend with one of those and he loved it to death when he first got it (early on in its run) and still has it.

[SweatingInAR]

Is a volt on your list? Maybe should be? Also have a friend with one of those and he loved it to death when he first got it (early on in its run) and still has it.

I have a first generation Volt, which are available in 2010-2015 model years, and it is a fantastic car. With a 35-40 mile electric range, we only burn gas on road trips. The front seats are big enough and have plenty of room. Unfortunately, the back seat is tiny and cargo space is noticeably smaller than our Prius. The battery placement even forced them to only put 2 seatbelts in the back seat! The highway fuel economy is pretty sad as well, but the EV range makes up for it. I do not recommend it for a long-legged family of four, but it works great for my 2-human and 2-small-dog family. The 2nd generation is slightly bigger, and more efficient, and has more EV range. Of course, the price matches.

[EchoStache]

Perhaps consider a 2019ish Hyundai Ioniq PHEV.  This will be under $20k for low milage i.e. 35k or less, balance of factory full warranty, and balance of 10 year powertrain warranty, and lifetime hybrid battery warranty.

My daughter recently got one as her first car.  Recent trip to the beach netted 60 mpg.  She gets ~30 miles EV range for her daily commute so the long beach trip is the only time she has bought gas.  It also has a $4,000 federal tax credit and $1500 state rebate(which will obviously vary depending on your location), so you can get these for under $15k net i.e. cheaper than older, higher mileage cars you are looking at, full warranty, and much lower fuel cost.

I steered her towards the limited trim level in order to get the best safety features such as lane keep warning and assist, blind spot warning, rear cross traffic alert, AEB, etc.  I feel like there is a good chance all these features combined have a good chance of preventing an accident sometime over her next ten years of driving.

[Travis]

Perhaps consider a 2019ish Hyundai Ioniq PHEV.  This will be under $20k for low milage i.e. 35k or less, balance of factory full warranty, and balance of 10 year powertrain warranty, and lifetime hybrid battery warranty.

My daughter recently got one as her first car.  Recent trip to the beach netted 60 mpg.  She gets ~30 miles EV range for her daily commute so the long beach trip is the only time she has bought gas.  It also has a $4,000 federal tax credit and $1500 state rebate(which will obviously vary depending on your location), so you can get these for under $15k net i.e. cheaper than older, higher mileage cars you are looking at, full warranty, and much lower fuel cost.

I steered her towards the limited trim level in order to get the best safety features such as lane keep warning and assist, blind spot warning, rear cross traffic alert, AEB, etc.  I feel like there is a good chance all these features combined have a good chance of preventing an accident sometime over her next ten years of driving.

I found three of these in town. 2020 models for $16k for 110k miles and $19k for 68k miles and a 2018 for $16k/114k miles. The 2018 is two minutes from here so I'll add it to the test drive list.

[darknight]

We rented an Ioniq on vacation, great option. No cheaper feeling than our previous toyota prius. In fact, my wife complimented the car on how our luggage fit in the back and the additional shoulder room available over the toyota. Not being a toyota, you probably have a better chance of procuring a deal.

[Travis]

We rented an Ioniq on vacation, great option. No cheaper feeling than our previous toyota prius. In fact, my wife complimented the car on how our luggage fit in the back and the additional shoulder room available over the toyota. Not being a toyota, you probably have a better chance of procuring a deal.

Did some test driving today. Everything was 2014-2018. The Ioniq felt good, though definitely a little more sluggish than the Prius getting up to speed. The trunk looked like a cave. I really should have brought luggage or a tape measure to quantify it. The salesman's manager didn't like hearing that I was only there for a test drive and that the air conditioning made an odd noise that really needs to be checked out. He felt the car would be gone in a week or two whether they inspected the system or not.  That Ioniq appears to be the only one in town that isn't practically new.

Drove a Prius that is the same style as my 2008. Very little difference between them except for an updated dashboard cluster so I know what I'm dealing with with that model. That sales manager was less pushy and just sat with me for five minutes discussing my current car.

C-Max Energi is an odd duck. It looks like it's slightly larger than my Prius on the outside, but feels like an SUV inside. Felt almost too big. Except in the trunk. Not a lot to work with there. The display was also very confusing as to what I was consuming/gaining in the energy department. Could just be my unfamiliarity with plug-ins. If I want the non-plug in version there's just one at a small dealership 25 minutes away.

If I'm going to pull the trigger, I think I need to do it by the end of the week or I'll have to start over with the searches. The Hyundai manager was pushy, but he wasn't wrong about inventory coming and going pretty quickly.

[Travis]

Appreciate everyone's input! Ended up buying another Prius (2014 model), but a plug-in hybrid. There was only one Hyundai Ioniq reasonably close and I already mentioned my concerns with the vehicle. The C-Max just wasn't a good feel. Yesterday I went back for a couple more test drives and got behind two 2014 Priuses, one normal and the other plug-in. The price and mileage were almost identical. The plug-in just seemed to have a little more use to me even though both vehicles were identical otherwise. I also liked the plug-in's paint job and interior more. I didn't think my car search would come down to that, but that's how close they were.  Its too bad the salesmen weren't swapped because I really liked the guy I didn't buy the car from. Also, if you're going to finance a car, clear your schedule. The paperwork took a couple hours. I've been saving for a down payment for a few months and put about 60% down. I'll probably pay it off in a couple months. With so much down the monthly payment is pitifully low, but the interest rate is disgusting and I don't want to pay any more for insurance than I need to either.

[mizzourah2006]

I could start a new thread, but I figured I'd just piggy back on this. I had not done any car research in about 8 years because I was perfectly happy with mine and was waiting until some of the larger SUVs (Sorento, etc.) became available in Hybrid or EV. Well, I had the fun of getting into a car accident this weekend and pretty sure my favorite car ever is totaled. I had honestly planned on having my truck forever. It was a 2013 and only had 49k miles on it. Now I find myself in a place where I need to find a car and of course this is the worse time for this to happen as the kids are starting fall sports and of course they have practices at the same time 25 minutes away from each other. But I don't want to be rushed into buying a car I don't like.

Here are my wants.

- I want it to look nice. I know that's anti-mustachian, but I want to enjoy the aesthetic appeal of it. I loved the look of my truck even 10 years later. I was just thinking about how "cool" it looked as I left work Thursday afternoon.
- It needs to be big enough to fit 5 people and occassionally 2 large dogs on trips.
- It needs to have room for up to 4 bikes (we mountain bike as a family several times a month and often bring the bikes on trips to visit family). This can be via a truck bed (which we used to do) or a car/suv with the capability of adding a tow hitch to support a nice Thule style bike rack.
- I would prefer to get good gas mileage. My old truck was great, but it didn't get great gas mileage. I didn't drive it much, so it worked for what we needed it for though.

I was looking at the following.

- Tesla Model Y LR 7 seater. Looks like I can get a build that comes in at ~$47k after the tax credit. Seems to address most of my needs.
- Kia Sorento Hybrid SX. Looks like it can be had for around $48-$50k and seems to address most of my needs, but they seem very hard to find.
- GMC Canyon. I can get a nice looking one for $45-$50k. Doesn't get much better gas mileage than my old truck and is probably too small for trips with the kids and dogs, but it could potentially work. Solves the bike issue and looks nice.
- VW ID4 AWD. These are kind of hard to find, but I've found a few and they are about $50-$52k after the credit. Can get a tow hitch and bike rack and has room for the dogs, but doesn't have the additional space we'd like to have as our kids start to have friends come along or that we need to bring to school/tote to practices, etc. Doesn't look all that great IMO, but willing to forego that for the right car.
- F150 Lightning XLT. The standard range is about $58k after the tax credit. Range is way less than the Tesla, but it solves most of our problems, but doesn't have the space for additional friends (more of a nice to have).

I think all things considered the Tesla Model Y LR 7 seater hits all of our needs. But I know a lot of people have negative things to say about Teslas.
 
I'd love to hear thoughts from you all.

[Paper Chaser]

Mizz, I'd try to find a hybrid Ford Maverick to test drive too. They're half the price of what you're considering, get 40mpg, and can do a lot of "truck stuff" while remaining super efficient and comfortable for daily commuting, parking, etc. They're surprisingly roomy inside, but the big question is whether they'd be able to fit your people. You won't really know until you can get into one.

[mizzourah2006]

Mizz, I'd try to find a hybrid Ford Maverick to test drive too. They're half the price of what you're considering, get 40mpg, and can do a lot of "truck stuff" while remaining super efficient and comfortable for daily commuting, parking, etc. They're surprisingly roomy inside, but the big question is whether they'd be able to fit your people. You won't really know until you can get into one.

Thanks for the recommendation. The Maverick's are nice. My brother actually has one. They are still hard to get your hands on. My brother waited about 9 months for his. The ones I've seen near me are marked up way above MSRP, usually around 30-40%. The XLTs are going for around $35-$40k around me.

I'd definitely pay $25-$28k for one, but given the finishes and size I'd rather just pay $10-$12k more for something that is a bit nicer, AWD, and  has more room. It can definitely fit 4 comfortably, but we wouldn't be able to take the dogs and the kids with car seats/booster seats in it.

It's one of those situations where I think there are a bunch of great options if I had 3-5 months to shop for a new car, but I have 3-4 weeks. I really don't want to get something temporary and go through the hassle of the DMV just to turn around and do it all over again in 9 months.

Right now I think it's the Tesla Y, they have basically what I want, except it's a premium color so +$2k getting to a sales center 200 miles from me in about a week. It'd be $48.5k after the federal tax credit.

[GilesMM]

Why not find a used replica of the truck you had and liked so much?

[mizzourah2006]

Why not find a used replica of the truck you had and liked so much?

I've looked. There are only a few in the same condition with 45-60k miles for sale in the entire country and the ones I found are about 1k miles away and they want ~$35k. Even if I would be willing to go to 80-100k miles the inventory is limited and they still want $25-$28k and they are 3-500 miles away. It just seems like a lot of work and effort and not knowing the history of it when I could easily just get something new. The gently used market trucks are about the same price range as the other vehicles I'm looking at and still get terrible gas mileage like my truck did. I didn't drive enough to where it really bothered me and would have been worth getting the truck ready for sale, but now that I'm in a position where I no longer have it it's hard to rationalize buying something as inefficient as it was again.

You could think of it as kind of a sunk cost before I started to really become more mindful about my expenses and by the time I stumbled upon MMM and the FIRE world it was already paid off, so with how often I drove and what our HH income had grown to selling it for a slightly less expensive more efficient car would have gotten us about 1.5-2 months ahead in the journey and didn't seem worth the hassle (although I did consider it) given how much I enjoyed it and how useful it was for toting our bikes and at the time kayaks around.

[mizzourah2006]

Just an update. We found a gently used 2022 Kia Sorento PHEV SX with 20k miles on it for $39k. Ended up going that direction, I just need to get the tow hitch added from UHaul. So far so good. We had to drive 90 miles to get it and the battery was dead. So the drive back was on gas and we still got 38.2 MPG. Yesterday we dropped the kids off at school, drove to and from work and took my son across town and back for soccer practice and it was all on the battery.

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

Excellent!  PHEVs are wonderful.

Yet... why pay U-Haul?

Install your own!

https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2022_Kia_Sorento.htm or similar - no cutting or welding required!

[mizzourah2006]

Excellent!  PHEVs are wonderful.

Yet... why pay U-Haul?

Install your own!

https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2022_Kia_Sorento.htm or similar - no cutting or welding required!

I'm sure I could, but the quote UHaul just gave me for the Curt Class 3 installed on their website is only $262. It would be about $230 from Etrailer after taxes. So it's only $30 to have someone install it that knows what they are doing seems worth it to me.

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

"U-Haul hitch installers" and "know what they're doing" have little to do with each other.

I would do it myself even if it were more expensive, as I know I'll take the time to do it properly per the instructions and not shortcut the process.

[Just Joe]

I've installed a few eTrailer hitches. Not hard. I too would prefer to do my own install than let someone like UHaul do it for me.